Guild Wars 2

Ellisande.5218:

Does this mean the dungeon is now soloable?

If so then thank god.

No, it’s not. Everything up to that point still requires a full group. It only makes the bossfight-turned-quicktime-event that is Zhaitan all the more jarring.

Jeffrey Vaughn.1793:

It’s a dungeon, so it’s not soloable,

Then how do you explain the nerfs to the Zhaitan fight I describe in this post: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Post-patch-Zhaitan-Beyond-unacceptable/first#post1351271

I could have literally soloed the encounter. Unacceptable.

Strifey.7215:

Because casuals + required dungeon path to complete your personal story = easy mode.

Personally who cares, there’s plenty of explorable dungeons that are much harder, originally story mode was suppose to be super easy anyways and was more for casuals to experience the story.

Stack on top of that your personal story which is super easy, and now you get super duper easy dungeon path so no one can ever complain about things being too hard to complete their story.

The fact it’s story mode does not excuse this insulting level of nerfs. World of Fraking Warcraft doesn’t make it’s easy mode dungeons this easy. This was literally Guild Wars 2 playing itself. If we hadn’t caught the adds being killed by the NPCs before despawning we could have sworn that the phase was bugged and no adds were spawning at all. You cannot justify this kind of kitten poor game design.

As for why should we care? This reflects on the path Arenanet is willing to take to appease it’s playerbase. Ultra-casual nerfs may not effect explorable mode…yet. What happens when they do? If they’re willing to literally destroy this encounter rather than fix it then it’s an ill omen for all dungeon content.

[NOTE: I’m cross posting this in both the Dungeons and Personal Story boards since it effects both aspects of the game.]

So I just ran some people through Arah storymode to help them finish their personal stories. I had read in the patch notes about Zhaitan’s poison bombs being nerfed and the airship battle being nerfed, so I expected that. Here’s what I didn’t see coming:
During phase 1 Zhaitan’s adds are now non-veteran and spawn in ridiculously reduced numbers (2 per spawn instead of 4). They also have next to no HP, so the NPCs killed them before we could even get there. We literally sat on our rears and let the game play itself.

Then it got even better. The three Eyes of Zhaitan during phase 2 had their HP cut in half and their damaged nerfed so hard we took none at all. They died so quick we had over a minute to wait as the ship pulled up next to the tower and we could start the cannon phase. When that started it too less than thirty seconds to kill Zhaitan. Thirty seconds. He didn’t even have time to spawn his tentacle adds you guys put in there to make the phase more “engaging.”

How is this acceptable, Arenanet? How can you justify this second rate game design? This is a FINAL BOSS, something that’s supposed to be difficult to kill. Sure the fight was crap before but at least you had to involve yourself. After the patch this isn’t even a boss fight. It’s comparable to the quicktime event bullcrap that permeates FPS games nowadays. I wouldn’t even call this casual. To call it such would insult the intelligence and skill of casual gamers.

Arenanet you better have some amazing fixes planned for boss fights, especially this one, when you reveal your “phase 2” of the dungeon changes. If this is a sign of things to come then dungeon content in this game is doomed.

[SPOILER WARNING: I couldn’t fit a spoiler warning on the thread title, so consider yourself warned]

So I just ran some people through Arah storymode to help them finish their personal stories. I had read in the patch notes about Zhaitan’s poison bombs being nerfed and the airship battle being nerfed, so I expected that. Here’s what I didn’t see coming:

During phase 1 Zhaitan’s adds are now non-veteran and spawn in ridiculously reduced numbers (2 per spawn instead of 4). They also have next to no HP, so the NPCs killed them before we could even get there. We literally sat on our rears and let the game play itself.

Then it got even better. The three Eyes of Zhaitan during phase 2 had their HP cut in half and their damaged nerfed so hard we took none at all. They died so quick we had over a minute to wait as the ship pulled up next to the tower and we could start the cannon phase. When that started it too less than thirty seconds to kill Zhaitan. Thirty seconds. He didn’t even have time to spawn his tentacle adds you guys put in there to make the phase more “engaging.”

How is this acceptable, Arenanet? How can you justify this second rate game design? This is a FINAL BOSS, something that’s supposed to be difficult to kill. Sure the fight was crap before but at least you had to involve yourself. After the patch this isn’t even a boss fight. It’s comparable to the quicktime event bullcrap that permeates FPS games nowadays. I wouldn’t even call this casual. To call it such would insult the intelligence and skill of casual gamers.

Arenanet you better have some amazing fixes planned for boss fights, especially this one, when you reveal your “phase 2” of the dungeon changes. If this is a sign of things to come then dungeon content in this game is doomed.

TheDaiBish.9735:

Vasham.2408:

Last I checked if I’m given a sub-par product it is within my right to let the creator know he did a bad job and needs to improve.

There’s a difference between telling them what they need to improve on as fact, your opinions and accusing things with no evidence to back it up.

I.E.

Fact – There’s buggy events and dungeons (a mate got indefinitely rooted for the entire fight in TA)

Opinion – There’s no endgame, story is bad (not so much the story, as how it’s paced)

Accusation with no evidence – Falsifying server population data

The story is bad. It’s universally accepted as bad. When the Transformers movies have a more coherent plot than a game who’s developers say are proud of their storyline then you know something is wrong.

fractalKinesis.8569:

Careful, you might get infracted for that post

Trust me, by now I’m used to it. The truth is verboten on these forums.

Lukhas.1962:

But you’re still here …

Last I checked if I’m given a sub-par product it is within my right to let the creator know he did a bad job and needs to improve.

Aldracity.9463:

A really good CORPG.

Although after transferring from YB to TC, population density increases due to the Living Story and what seems to be the effect of Guesting, I’m slowly edging towards finally calling it an MMORPG.

No, GW2 is not an MMORPG.

• Buggy, unplayable, easy dungeons
• Events that never work and have been bugged since launch
• Lieing patchnotes that declare fixes for bugs that aren’t fixed
• No endgame
• Objectively the worst story in a video game ever and an ending so terrible it dethrones Mass Effect 3’s infamous “Pick a color” finale.
• Developers lie about everything
• Falsified server population data

These are the things that define Guild Wars 2 for most of the gaming world. How does that make you feel?

Another “World changing event” patch, another horrendous blunder for Arenanet. Get on the lifeboats, folks, the ship is sinking fast!

I don’t think the OP knows what “hacking” is.

Chaba.5410:

Glad to see some bug fixes. The bundle scaling was a bug. Fixing it is not a buff. A buff would be something like increasing the damage of grenades or reducing the cooldown of a skill.

So a buff isn’t a buff unless it’s a buff?

http://youtu.be/OCkShlycMEY?t=6s <—-all I have to say to that

JohnDied.3476:

~Weapons now continue to grant bonus stats while bundles are equipped.
~Bundles from player skills (engineer kits, elementalist conjured weapons, warrior banners) now have base damage that is consistent with the highest rarity weapons available at the level of the player.

So weapon stats finally affect kits, but what exactly does the second mean? Does it mean that our weapons’ damage is applied to our kits or that our kits get the damage of an exotic weapon?

It means the base damage of the kit is calculated around the highest possible item quality for your level. So at level 80 it means your kits have the equivalent damage of an exotic weapon of that level. Before I want to say kits stopped scaling before you hit 80 and were only equivalent of common items.

Vorch.2985:

Right Toe Of Grenth.4032:

Now I cant wait for feb and march’s update! How is anet doing this without charging a sub!

Quaggan backpacks.

Looks like a decent patch. Pleasantly surprised.

They’re going to earn three times the yearly revenue of a sub-based MMO off that alone.

Mif.3471:

kekuso.5837:

ALL damage kits will do more damage…

No they won’t.

All this change means is that if you don’t have an exotic your damage will be nerfed.

If exotics were hard to get that would be a problem. It also means our kits can scale upwards based on more than stats. That wasn’t possible before.

So, kits now get your weapon stats and scale based on the highest available weapon quality at your level (exotic for level 80’s)? Honestly that makes up for the lackluster class specific notes if you ask me. Time to go do some testing.

InternetKillTV.5798:

Hi guys, so I’m just wondering if Z’s corpse is in the game.. We see the corpse of the early model zhaitan in the first trailer at 3:50 and again in this map from an the old .dat for Arah http://i.imgur.com/AluWU.jpg

I have to ask, is Zhaitan’s lair or his corpse found anywhere in the explorable dungeons? I kind of got over the fight with Zhaitan but the fact that they wouldn’t leave any explorable lair or corpse behind both baffles and kind of breaks my heart a little :P

They create this lore that really really excites me and then it’s like it’s none existent. Anybody else feel like that?

The corpse was completely removed from the launch version of Arah Explorable Mode. If you ask me it’s just another mark on a long list of kitten poor implementations of Zhaitan’s character.

You can get the rings and new amulets from the daily achievement currency starting with tomorrow’s patch.

Enikuo.9205:

Vasham.2408:

Arsenic Touch.7960:

Vasham.2408:

If you don’t want to group, don’t play an MMORPG. Simple.

That would be lovely if this game actually promoted grouping, which it does not. Majority of PVE is done solo, all of your personal story except the last mission is done solo. There really is no incentive to group up at all in this game except for dungeons and those have become repetitive activities.

No excuse. There is nothing preventing you from finishing the personal story except you. You don’t want to group, so it’s your fault that you can’t complete the story. When you buy a game in a genre called “Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game” then you should not be surprised or offended when you are required at some point to play with other people.

As people far more eloquent than myself have said in the past: QQ moar, l2p

You would have a point if this particular MMO didn’t go out of it’s way to accommodate solo play with its auto-grouping for dynamic events and world events, but it does. That’s kind of it’s thing – to not be a typical MMO.

And, though you don’t want to acknowledge it, it is a salient point that you can solo the entire personal story until the end. It would be unreasonable to expect to solo it to completion if you were required to complete dungeons throughout the storyline, but that’s not the case.

Frankly, you come across as high and mighty for the sake of internet points. Snotty retorts and talking down to other posters doesn’t do much to sway anyone to your opinion, it just creates a toxic environment.

There’s nothing unreasonable about expecting people to group up for some content. However it’s very unreasonable to want maximum reward for zero effort. Wanting a solo experience 100% of the time is the latter. No effort? No reward. That is the price you pay.

Arsenic Touch.7960:

Vasham.2408:

If you don’t want to group, don’t play an MMORPG. Simple.

That would be lovely if this game actually promoted grouping, which it does not. Majority of PVE is done solo, all of your personal story except the last mission is done solo. There really is no incentive to group up at all in this game except for dungeons and those have become repetitive activities.

No excuse. There is nothing preventing you from finishing the personal story except you. You don’t want to group, so it’s your fault that you can’t complete the story. When you buy a game in a genre called “Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game” then you should not be surprised or offended when you are required at some point to play with other people.

As people far more eloquent than myself have said in the past: QQ moar, l2p

Decrypter.1785:

Just wondering if skill/trait changes will also happen on 28th ?

Yes. Warriors and Guardians will be buffed. Mesmers and Thieves will be tweaked. Elementalists will be ignored. Necros, Rangers, and Engineers will be nerfed. All bugs with the latter four will be “fixed” in the notes, but no actual fixes will go through.

Avatar.1923:

we play a family friendly game, not farcry 3 !

What does that have to do with anything in this thread?

If you don’t want to group, don’t play an MMORPG. Simple.

Problem with Zhaitan was they tried to go with the “eldritch abomination” route but forgot that to make one convincingly menacing you need to show the player their might, or their malice. Take this for instance:

This moment in Mass Effect is what sold the Reapers as a threat. Even something you can’t conceivably interact with directly like a Reaper or Elder Dragon should be able to show you how or why it is to be feared. Zhaitan lacked that as a villain, coupled with a lackluster final battle against him.

Despite the fact the patch was a complete failure I agree the Ancient Karka was a better threat than Zhaitan in terms of build up and when the fight with it arrived. I hope Arenanet learned from their mistakes with Zhaitan and proceed to fix this issue with antagonists and villains moving forward.

Now if only we could make Trahearne take a long walk off a short pier.

gameplay > realism

Pifil.5193:

Emtiarbi.3281:

A big war between Jormag(Frost) and Primordius(Flame)!! :o

Why assume it’s a war?

We know very little about the Elder Dragons, perhaps Jormag and Primordius have just turned the lights down low, put some Barry White on and…

Thanks for that mental image. Going to go pour bleach on my brain until it goes away.

Shiren.9532:

ArenaNet is really stretching it when they say “January Update”. Sure, the 28th is January, but geese, you are cutting it so close it may as well be called the February update. Every time I read “this month”, I cringed.

I’m excited to see what the Flame and Frost update brings, I guess we will have to wait until next month (the 28th of February would be even more hilarious than January).

I really think they’ve missed the mark with laurels. It’s not immersive, it has built in daily limitations (creating pressure to log in daily and limiting how much you can do on a day you might have more time) and it does very little to improve the existing content – it’s just tacked on top of the existing content. I really hope their goals with expanding the open world rewards and improving on it’s design is a lot more ambitious than laurels. More unique rewards from existing chests (like JP chests, boss event chests from chains, champions etc), maybe make them pieces of a recipe for an item that is currently exclusive to RNG buying on the AH. I’d rather tell people about how I travelled all over Tyria killing giant destroyers, solving jumping puzzles and completing a scavenger hunt to assemble my epic weapons, rather than how I farmed CoF daily for gold and ectos, or flipped items on the TP with my spread sheets just to get enough gold to buy the exorbitantly priced mats for these weapons. It would actually involve me exploring the world, playing through content and it’d actually give a story and sense of real and unique achievement to my gear collecting, rather than encourage me to find the most efficient farms or methods of making gold. Dailies are just another way to turn GW2 into what every other MMO is already doing better.

I wonder if there will be any events added to promote the Flame and Frost: Prelude.

@alcopaul I agree.

I’m pretty sure the Laurels and what you buy with them are the motivation to go back, since if the Holloween patch proved anything it’s that you can add all the content you want to lower level zones and it’s still not going to draw in players unless there’s something worthwhile to get out of it. Same with Southsun Cove, but that suffers from a major lack of events period, not just poor rewards.

I’ll admit as jaded as I am it’s starting to look like they’re getting some good ideas. Hopefully adding new content to existing zones rather than making new ones (read: Southsun Cove) will allow them to fix existing issues with broken events since they don’t have to divert resources to new zones. Making the next piece of Ascended gear not attainable from Fractals is also a step in the right direction. Here’s hoping they actually fix the events in this game so we want to go back and run them for the rewards. Can’t get rewarded if the source of them doesn’t function.

Karizee.8076:

Keiran.1896:

Karizee.8076:

GW2 is more popular that WoW (in the West, they haven’t launched in China yet)

World of Warcraft: around 10M monthly subscribers.
Guild Wars 2: 3M box sold.
See what you compare…

And no, WoW’s population is not 70% from China. :P

Sure it is, that’s why they only sold 2.7mil physical copies of the Panda pac.

Fixed that for you.

marnick.4305:

Vasham.2408:

maddoctor.2738:

Vasham.2408:

• Buggy, unplayable, easy dungeons

Are they unplayable or easy?

Both

That’s a paradox. Unplayable and easy are polar opposites.

It’s not. When they do (rarely) work right they’re so easy it’s almost a sick joke. What happened to that “face melting difficulty” we where promised?

Oh yeah, another part of the Document of Lies-er…sorry, the Manifesto.

maddoctor.2738:

Vasham.2408:

• Buggy, unplayable, easy dungeons

Are they unplayable or easy?

Both

• Buggy, unplayable, easy dungeons
• Events that never work and have been bugged since launch
• Lieing patchnotes that declare fixes for bugs that aren’t fixed
• No endgame
• Objectively the worst story in a video game ever and an ending so terrible it dethrones Mass Effect 3’s infamous “Pick a color” finale.
• Developers lie about everything
• Falsified server population data
• Subtle takeover by Nexon hinted at by Lost Shores content

Yep, OP is absolutely right. This game is crashing, and will start burning soon.

Because spamming 2 to win is the most epic encounter in the history of MMO gaming, right?

Seriously Arenanet, I’m not asking for it to be a super difficult encounter. It is story mode after all. But for the love of good game design when you go back and redo all the bosses to make them have better mechanics please add Zhaitan to that list. That boss was pathetic, heck it wasn’t even a boss. Just ten minutes of killing trash mobs followed by a barely coded environmental weapon sequence. You don’t even need to aim the cannons, they hit 100% of the time no matter where you’re pointing. “Fixing” that phase so his dragon worm tentacle things actually spawn doesn’t make it better, just more tedious.

Zhaitan needs a better encounter. Devote some resources to fixing that fight so people can at least get the feeling they’re fighting a giant dragon god, not a background window dressing that roars at you.

dulfy.1493:

Dresden.1736:

Seriously, no talk about the AoE nerf? I was hoping to see some stammering and backpeddling…

Yes there are actually some stuff on AoE nerf.

AoEs in WvW

• Guys working on skll balance are still trying to decide what to do. Some of it will be going through and evaluating all the AoEs in the game and trying to pick out a couple that are over the top and making some tweaks.
• We don’t want AoEs to be as strong or more powerful than a single target damage spell in the same amount of time when it has the capacity to hit 5 people instead of 1.
• There are some skills right now that you always use no matter what and they are not necessarily situational or you time them properly. We want there to be a lot of tactics and thought that goes into the things that you do. That will be part of the strategy when we look through the AoE skills.
• We don’t want to make them useless, we just want to make them working as intended and we noticed that there are a couple right now that are not.

http://dulfy.net/2013/01/19/gw2-colin-johanson-mmorpg-livestream-transcript-jan-18/

I wonder how Engineers will be compensated since all of our damage dealing kits are AOE. Hoping for Pistol and Rifle buffs is out of the question because those are also entirely AOE. Granted this is Arenanet, proven to be the worst at class balancing in the MMO industry. I have no doubt the class will be even deeper in the crapper after the January patch.

The price you pay for removing the trinity and catering to casuals.

What roles? Damage dealing with mindless button spamming while dodging like a CODkid high on pixie sticks? There are no roles in this game, just mindless spamming with zero teamwork, strategy, and synergy. Anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong.

I personally can’t wait for the players who would insult anyone who perfers the trinity as “unskilled.” I dare you to go up to a top 100 WoW raiding guild and say that.

RestlessForm.3974:

Vasham.2408:

RestlessForm.3974:

To all the people saying things like “there is nothing fun about repetitive gameplay,” or something similar, I just have this to say. Believe it or not, some people find repeating the same tasks over and over, with little to no gain or change, to nonetheless be fun. “Fun” is one of those abstract things that can be derived from numerous sources.

Some people like Michael Bay movies. They’re still terrible.

See where I’m going with this?

They are not “terrible” to those people. That is my point. It is all opinion. Opinion itself is unavoidable. But only giving the opinion without constructive criticism is useless and can derail the thread.

I’m sorry but no. “Fun” is just a buzzword used in this case to justify poor content design. If you can’t justify what’s enjoyable then you’ve lost the argument right off the bat.

RestlessForm.3974:

To all the people saying things like “there is nothing fun about repetitive gameplay,” or something similar, I just have this to say. Believe it or not, some people find repeating the same tasks over and over, with little to no gain or change, to nonetheless be fun. “Fun” is one of those abstract things that can be derived from numerous sources.

Some people like Michael Bay movies. They’re still terrible.

See where I’m going with this?

gold.3025:

Because it’s fun

This is an objectively false statement. Nothing is fun about standing still and autoattacking a stationary boss. Period.

ColinJohanson.2394:

One of our goals for 2013 will be evaluating all of the bosses and creatures in the game, from open world to dungeons, to try and make them more exciting and fun to fight against.

In general if anything has a really high health pool, it needs to have unique abilities to make it exciting for the entire time, or actually change abilities/tactics as it goes down in health to ensure it stays fun and exciting to fight against.

We realize there are a number of bosses in the game, from the open world to instances that all can be more fun to fight than they are now. We’ll be tackling that this year in part of our goal to make our core game as strong as possible.

So are you going to fix the “spam 2 to win” final boss of this game as well? I refuse to believe you guys can honestly call that a well designed encounter.

TheDaiBish.9735:

Arthur.8302:

Raid 8/12 would be cool.

Or, they just got to add elite areas, not linear, awsome armor and 8/12 guys.. awsome new content.

The both of them would be perfect! Yeah i know, i have a dream..

Yeah, I loved Elite Areas, with the massive quest chains, and multiple levels.

They really should bring these back, not to house the biggest, toughest bosses, but just as larger group content.

Maybe throw in some giant megabosses that do more than stand still and look mean while you autoattack them to death. Honestly Arah should have been a raid, but that’s another opportunity Arenanet missed.

emikochan.8504:

Nobody would raid without epics.

Better big meta events is a good idea though. Maybe 8 person dungeons again.

You know, one of the things that I won’t complain about with GW2 is the lack of vertical gear progression. The only problem with it right now is there is so little gear to go after for looks. Adding raid content with new skins for armor/weapons would go a long way. Most of the time in WoW I don’t give a rat’s tail about stats as long as the weapon looks sufficiently awesome. There’s a reason people will farm old content just for the looks of classic gear, stats be darned.

Edit: Too many kittens.

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

If they created raid content, I’d personally quit at the first mention of it. No offense.

Your loss.

Honestly with how the lack of the holy trinity has permanently crippled this game’s PVE adding five more players could at least overcome some of the drawbacks. Imagine if the Zhaitan fight had ten players instead of five? They might have actually been able to put something in the last phase other than the spam cannons and make it at best an acceptable encounter, not the bullcrap we got. As a general rule of thumb more players in an encounter equals more advanced tactics.

Mirta.5029:

if you hate it that much get off the forum and go play something else.

I’m as much a paying customer as you are. Just because you disapprove of my disapproval does not mean I have to be quiet.

1. I wouldn’t want to see raids. Raids imply that there would be a very steep gear progression and that we would have to run it, even though it’s hard enough to find 5 people without grouping up with other servers.

I didn’t imply GW2 needs raiding at all, just that WoW released more content in it’s first patch. What’s funny is you forgot that past Ascended gear GW2 does not have gear progression. How would raiding be a bad thing then?

2. If you’re going to see the same place as two different dungeons, why not to see every explorable path in a dungeon as a different dungeon as well? Having ran them a million times by now I could say that most are not that buggy or unplayable. I’m yet to encounter a bug in AC, TA, CoF, CoE and Arah.

Just because YOU have no encountered one of the numerous game breaking bugs does not mean they don’t exist. Or do all those posts in the Dungeon forum come from people who are hallucinating?

3. So you’re one of those people that go out of their way to grind for a skin that’s not necessary? No wonder the game is not fun for you. DR kicks in after an hour of killing the same mob, move a bit to the side and kill something else and you’ll have no problems.

Except isn’t that the point of the game? To grind for weapon and armor skins? I guess it only counts when it’s convenient for your argument.

4. You’re also forgetting that this game has Spvp and WvW. You can also get a dragon timer and do dragon events non stop, try your hand at jumping puzzles, get full explore, etc.

Standing just to the right of a stationary boss who doesn’t even attack me, hitting autoattack and coming back five minutes later for crappy loot is not exactly compelling content. Neither is “Door Bashing and Cap Trading,” or as you call it WvW. sPVP is also a joke that nobody plays anymore.

Now vanilla WoW wasn’t much different. Except for a massive gear grind, that isn’t present in GW2.

Fractals and the Legendary weapon grind would like to have a word with you. They put anything WoW ever had to shame.

UnderdogSMO.9428:

Vasham.2408:

Sirevanac.3178:

Comparison is the most basic tool to differentiate the good from the bad. So you take something new and compare it with what one consider is the best to see if its better or not.

The problem is when you compare a 9 year game old with a 6- months old game. :P

So a game is not allowed to be considered better because it’s older? That’s some amazing logic, especially since the older game is doing better than the younger game in this case. I guess Doom is a piece of crap compared to Black Ops 2 now as well, or Final Fantasy 13 is better than Final Fantasy 6.

I can go on all day with this, but my basic statement is that you fail at logic.

When talking about MMOs its not exactly fare comparitavly EQ1 as considerd better than wow by many players when wow first lunched . Wow being the buggy instanced mess that it was it took a good year and ahalf befor it got its footing and most people didnt realy jump in untell BC

That’s nice, but it doesn’t address the point I made which is that Sirevanac claims a game is automatically not good because it’s old.

Besides, the simple fact that is if an MMO wants to succeed it must match it’s competition in quality. Saying “it’s new, give it time” is no excuse. Rather it’s apologizing for the developers being lazy and incompetent.

Sirevanac.3178:

Comparison is the most basic tool to differentiate the good from the bad. So you take something new and compare it with what one consider is the best to see if its better or not.

The problem is when you compare a 9 year game old with a 6- months old game. :P

So a game is not allowed to be considered better because it’s older? That’s some amazing logic, especially since the older game is doing better than the younger game in this case. I guess Doom is a piece of crap compared to Black Ops 2 now as well, or Final Fantasy 13 is better than Final Fantasy 6.

I can go on all day with this, but my basic statement is that you fail at logic.

They say a politician is someone who can speak for hours and never actually say anything. Izzy should run for president.

Sirevanac.3178:

Hm, agreed. Talked without knowing.

Still i think its important to emphasize that WoW and GW2 have different goals and WoW has a pretty bigger source of money to develop.

I think the true point is that Gw2 is still trying to get its objective, its learning on the way how to reach it. But there’s no other way to do it because there’s no previous example from where to learn. So, time will tell if they get to it or not.

The problem is that it’s too late. The MMO market is unforgiving and if you miss the mark in the first month then you’re doomed to failure. GW2 missed the mark. All we can do now is wait for the inevitable.

Sirevanac.3178:

I said by the moment. As when WoW came up and you just had till lvl 60, the exact same thing happened. Or any other mmorpg. You can’t expect 1000 hours worth playing of a just released game. Its ridiculous. That simply doesnt exist. The only difference is that WoW gives you a limit of rewards through daily / weekly quests. Here you could just go 10 levels of FotM in a day if you want.

I’ve played 300 hours and im calculating around no more than 50 hours more before i get completely bored. But thats until they patch again with more content (or finally do something good with spvp :P). And im pretty happy about it. For $60 its really a lot, dont you think?

Actually at launch WoW had at least three dungeons you could raid with ten people. Four if you considered Upper and Lower Blackrock Spire to be seperate raids and multiple high level zones along with epic quest chains. Then they added two forty man raids in their first patch. WoW had plenty to do at max level at launch, in fact that was one of it’s strong points.

Compare GW2 endgame content at launch:

• 8 5-man dungeons that are either buggy and unplayable or easy as crap, or both.
• 3 level 80 zones, one people only visit for an event.
• Grinding for a legendary while fighting DR and a broken economy

And in their first patch…

• A dungeon that isn’t challenging other than resistance gating
• A level 80 zone nobody visits and has no worthwhile events

I’d say WoW wins this one, hands down.

Kakeru.2873:

Alloy.2839:

GW2 includes the following optional activities.
1) PvP. Because WvWvW is PVP
2) Dungeons. Because FOTM is a dungeon
3) Obtaining Exotic, Ascended, or Legendary equipment.

FTFY

Edited out the things that aren’t real endgame. It’s a very small list. Frighteningly so, even.