Guild Wars 2

Absconditus.6804:

@Vayne, Sure, and you said the rewards were fine, and I disagreed. The Lv.76 part of these specific rewards, sure that’s alright, especially when considering they may have very nice upgrades on them, but overall, the World vs. World rewards are definitely not fine. Mostly any World vs. World player will tell you they don’t exactly feel rewarded for playing their game mode, compared to those that focus their efforts in PvE. Same goes for sPvP players I guess.

@Draknar, and I can get 7 guaranteed Rare or better items from doing world events in that time frame. You can literally tag the boss and AFK until it dies, and you’ll be rewarded. Then you need to Waypoint, and repeat. That’s also not counting potential Rare or better items from the chests and champion bags obtained from these events. WvW players also don’t go to EotM, PvE players does. EotM is a PvE map with optional PvP. If you think you’re a WvW player and you spend your time in EotM, any actual WvW player will simply laugh at you. But at least the EotM players need to move around constantly, so they have to put some effort into it. I’m not saying players at, e.g., Jormag aren’t putting the effort into it, but it’s not actually necessary. Obviously if everyone acted like that, it would fail, but there’s bound to be a few who just slacks (I know at Jormag, a huge amount of players toy around with the Champions instead of the actual task of getting golems to hit him so we can DPS up close).

You can get those guaranteed rare items only once per day though. You don’t have those limits in WvW. Spend a day in WvW with upped rewards and you’ll make more than that. Plus badges which can be used to purchase exotic items and such. I’m not so sure that the rewards are that far off.

Mind you, they could be tweaked a little. Oh and I assume you don’t consider EotM WvW.

GuzziHero.2467:

REPOST:

So I am level 74/75 in Malchor’s Leap, wondering why every Risen Chicken and trash mob is melting my face, when I hit level 76 and get a sudden attribute boost.
I’d forgotten about the idiotic stepped attribute system. And if it is this frustrating and annoying to me, think about what it is like for new players who don’t fully know the system.
Almost everything in NPE other than the guide compass for the starter zones is counter-intuitive and counterproductive to the experience for newer players.

Malchors is a level 75-80 zone. Most of the creatures in the zone past the entrance will be a higher level than you. You don’t really need to go to Malchors at level 74. I’m almost 100% positive that a reasonably competent player at level 74 could get through most of Malchors without experiencing what you have.

It may very well be a learn to play issue. Stats are important in this game…but not that important.

Absconditus.6804:

Vayne.8563:

Absconditus.6804:

No, Vayne, they are not fine. They are a good idea, but poorly implemented, like pretty much all rewards in this game currently. It feels unrewarding to get a reward. Once in a blue moon you may feel a tiny bit lucky, you see an Ascended drop in there, but then it’s of the completely wrong stats compared to what you may want. I’m not saying Ascended should be rewarded like raining candy, but would it be that much to ask to let players select what they want, when they do once in a very rare case get one as a reward? I don’t think it is at least. Exotics are overly rare. Rare’s are even excessively rare from these Rank Up reward chests. You get Greens, mostly Greens. Salvage-fodder. I rarely get excited about the rewards in this game. Some event ones have been fun to work for, collecting the halo and devil horns was fun, it was something I could spend tokens on and work towards. Perhaps that’s something they should do more. Tokens. Vendors with rewards.

They can keep some things random, but if you at least always get a token out of a reward chest, you can feel like after so and so many ranks, you can get this and that which you are interested in. This could be a system that is used everywhere for that matter.

Dungeons does this right at least. Laurels do it right as well. They just need more things to select from.

Actually the rewards in this game remind me very much of the rewards in Guild Wars 1. After playing for a couple of years, I was almost never excited about a drop. The rares were pretty much worthless. Nothing to be excited about. The greens were mostly worthless. It was a very long haul between exciting rewards in Guild Wars 1.

People wanted this game to be more like that one. lol

I think they’re night and day. In Guild Wars, pretty much nothing was bound to you, you could even use things and decide to sell it later. The BDS, CC, Frog Scepter, Voltaic Spear, Dhuum’s Soul Reaper and so on forth, were and still are valuable items, items you could sell if you didn’t want them yourself. The daily reward, the Copper Coins, which you could then turn into Silver and Gold coins, could be sold. You could practically sell everything that wasn’t armor or that you hadn’t customized to yourself. Miniatures, all of them were possible to sell. You could even sell your dedicated miniatures.. This game, everything is practically Soul-/Account Bound. I wouldn’t dare compare the greatness that was Guild Wars to Guild Wars 2 when it comes to rewards.

Draknar.5748:

Considering how many rank chests you end up getting (thousands), I wouldn’t expect them to give more than salvage fodder anyway. Be happy with anything yellow and above.

Consider how many guaranteed rewards I’ve gotten from world events (thousands), your point was? It requires a bit more activity in general to rank up in WvW, much more than it does to tag and AFK events in the PvE environment.

But the OP was specifically talking about exotics that weren’t bound to him. That was his major complaint. He didn’t feel he was getting exotics he could use.

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

The fast leveling lasts for 15 levels. During that time you get to the fun part of the game, but you go through a tutorial experience. Are you suggesting the tutorial experience go slowly?

I think they should lose the level boost and put the fun stuff they took out back in. If this is supposed to be a ‘tutorial experience’, why accelerate the leveling so a new player will zip through it before they have time to absorb it?

I disagree. Look, the first ten to fifteen levels of a characters life are just that. The first ten to fifteen levels. You’ll spent 90 plus percent of a characters life as higher than level 15 and over the course of time that percent if it’s life at 80. Those levels, as fun as you remember them to be are really a tiny percentage of your experience, even if it is the first experience. So they go quick and you get going with the fun stuff an hour into your character’s life. An hour and half…whatever. It’s a small part of the game for each character.

All games need players. Normal attrition isn’t going to stop even if Anet gives you everything you want. They need more players in a very very competitive arena. Some people don’t think that’s our problem.

I happen not to be one of those people.

As I said before, for a new player those first ten to fifteen minutes represent their entire gaming experience.

If those first ten to fifteen minutes aren’t fun – evidently even anet thinks they aren’t, otherwise, why provide a leveling boost to get players through them quickly – the remaining ‘90 plus percent of a character’s life’ is most likely moot.

Thus, NPE, as delivered, makes no sense.

I only have your word that a totally new player won’t find it fun in any real quantity. The real test will be what happened with the last free weekend, not what anyone on the forums says. If the uptake is higher than it was in previous free weekends, Anet was right. If it was lower, Anet is wrong.

Absconditus.6804:

No, Vayne, they are not fine. They are a good idea, but poorly implemented, like pretty much all rewards in this game currently. It feels unrewarding to get a reward. Once in a blue moon you may feel a tiny bit lucky, you see an Ascended drop in there, but then it’s of the completely wrong stats compared to what you may want. I’m not saying Ascended should be rewarded like raining candy, but would it be that much to ask to let players select what they want, when they do once in a very rare case get one as a reward? I don’t think it is at least. Exotics are overly rare. Rare’s are even excessively rare from these Rank Up reward chests. You get Greens, mostly Greens. Salvage-fodder. I rarely get excited about the rewards in this game. Some event ones have been fun to work for, collecting the halo and devil horns was fun, it was something I could spend tokens on and work towards. Perhaps that’s something they should do more. Tokens. Vendors with rewards.

They can keep some things random, but if you at least always get a token out of a reward chest, you can feel like after so and so many ranks, you can get this and that which you are interested in. This could be a system that is used everywhere for that matter.

Dungeons does this right at least. Laurels do it right as well. They just need more things to select from.

Actually the rewards in this game remind me very much of the rewards in Guild Wars 1. After playing for a couple of years, I was almost never excited about a drop. The rares were pretty much worthless. Nothing to be excited about. The greens were mostly worthless. It was a very long haul between exciting rewards in Guild Wars 1.

People wanted this game to be more like that one. lol

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

The fast leveling lasts for 15 levels. During that time you get to the fun part of the game, but you go through a tutorial experience. Are you suggesting the tutorial experience go slowly?

I think they should lose the level boost and put the fun stuff they took out back in. If this is supposed to be a ‘tutorial experience’, why accelerate the leveling so a new player will zip through it before they have time to absorb it?

I disagree. Look, the first ten to fifteen levels of a characters life are just that. The first ten to fifteen levels. You’ll spent 90 plus percent of a characters life as higher than level 15 and over the course of time that percent if it’s life at 80. Those levels, as fun as you remember them to be are really a tiny percentage of your experience, even if it is the first experience. So they go quick and you get going with the fun stuff an hour into your character’s life. An hour and half…whatever. It’s a small part of the game for each character.

All games need players. Normal attrition isn’t going to stop even if Anet gives you everything you want. They need more players in a very very competitive arena. Some people don’t think that’s our problem.

I happen not to be one of those people.

shadow.6174:

Vayne.8563:

The bottom line is the leveling speed is greatly increased. ANYONE who hits events as they go are going to level faster though…even new players. That’s how you level in an hour.

The thing is: What’s the point about fast leveling? What’s the big deal? Aren’t games about having fun? Leveling should be a consequence of having fun in it and not a chore that should be done as fast as one can instead. In my early days in GW2 I didn’t care much about leveling fast, instead I tried to have fun while working up my way toward high levels and enjoying each experience (real experience, no game XP :P) I got and new things I learned during that process.

Chrispy.5641:

if a new player (to gw2) is experienced in MMO’s then this so called ‘new player experience’ isn’t even needed. Anyone experienced in MMO’s will have a basic knowledge of most of the working systems with a few exceptions (like dodging). By that point, it turns into a tired, extended tutorial in explaining things that should’ve taken about an hour in an optional tutorial instance, like most other games.

And for players new to GW2 but not new to MMOs this NPE is even insulting, it treats the players like a 5 years child as if they wouldn’t even know how to read or seek for helping, that’s too much hand-holding. Also, a decent tutorial or helping system for newcomers should be something reasonably short and optional, not a forced process that takes the whole length of leveling process instead.

The fast leveling lasts for 15 levels. During that time you get to the fun part of the game, but you go through a tutorial experience. Are you suggesting the tutorial experience go slowly?

cranos.5913:

Vayne.8563:

The thing that gets me is how many devs make the same assumptions and the same mistakes. The stuff the Carbine Devs said could almost be an echo of the stuff the Trion Devs said a few months into Rift when they started trying to develop stuff for smaller groups….but none of it was challenging at all.

So we have multiple questions. Do people want to be challenged? If they do what form should that challenge take?

And we still have the problem that different people are challenged by different things.

There should be some way to satisfy everyone. I actually liked the Fractals because you could play all the content without ever going to higher levels.

That’s one thing I would hate. I’d hate to be locked out of content because maybe I’m not good enough to finish it.

Games like Mass Effect have different difficulties for stuff, which brings us back to hard mode.

Maybe it’s time to implement something like that.

I think the surprise mostly comes from how much that game had been advertised as a game for the hardcore crowd.

As for being locked out of content, if you can do arah and TA aetherblade I doubt you have that much to worry about. If they made a new instance/dungeon, which they never will, it’d probably be along the same lines of those paths.

I was thinking more of raids in other games, which I found too constricting and annoying. I’m in Australia and I don’t want to have to wake up on a US schedule to get stuff done with 20 people.

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

Beldin.5498:

Btw.:
http://wildstarreport.com/2014/09/03/wildstar-omni-core/

In the true sense of their motto; “The Devs are Listening” Frost discussed how Carbine is regularly looking at and analyzing gameplay analytics. These analytics are focused on playtime, content and reward loop feedback, all of which have shifted their focus from high end content to solo gameplay. Statistics are showing the majority of Wildstar players enjoy solo play instead of larger raids which really caught Carbine developers off guard

Devs keep saying it, over the years, over and over again, and the hard core crowd keep denying it. Why is it so hard to believe you’re part of a minority?

all you guys are not really reading the report, it didnt say hardcore, it said people want solo activities.
Perhaps all the hub bub about people not wanting challenge is being conflated with people not wanting high number of player content.

After all, i love challenge, but i seldom do raids. I dont really tend to like the culture created by raids either, though that may be different with gw2 drop systems.

point is, desire for low/small man content is not the same thing as desire for easy content

It’s possible. It’s also likely that the solo content in that game isn’t particularly challenging and so you couldn’t really say much either way.

depends on what solo content in the game you are talking about. To be honest, most of the difficulty i have seen in raid like content in most games isnt actually any harder than solo/small man content. Its more from an organization stand point, and the fact that some random person will probably mess up.

a lot of people just dont have the time, energy or desire to group up with 20+ people and try to do something, especially if it requires skill, because people tend to react poorly when pressure is on them.

not to mention, in general, your singular contribution is diminished, or your tasks simplified.

The thing that gets me is how many devs make the same assumptions and the same mistakes. The stuff the Carbine Devs said could almost be an echo of the stuff the Trion Devs said a few months into Rift when they started trying to develop stuff for smaller groups….but none of it was challenging at all.

So we have multiple questions. Do people want to be challenged? If they do what form should that challenge take?

And we still have the problem that different people are challenged by different things.

There should be some way to satisfy everyone. I actually liked the Fractals because you could play all the content without ever going to higher levels.

That’s one thing I would hate. I’d hate to be locked out of content because maybe I’m not good enough to finish it.

Games like Mass Effect have different difficulties for stuff, which brings us back to hard mode.

Maybe it’s time to implement something like that.

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

NoTrigger.8396:

Vayne.8563:

TA Aetherblade path is harder, but you guys don’t just want harder. You want better rewards.

why people dont run TA Aether:
- unskippable cutscenes
- ooze and electric floor puzzle (both is pretty much stupid and boring)
- scarlet
- scarlet
- even more scarlet

if they replaced both puzzles with fun and complex bosses the path would be ok actually. and no, TA aether is not harder than any other dungeon.

The unskippable cut scenes are relatively short…except for the first one anyway. The ooze puzzle is relatively fast and easy. The electric floor puzzle a lot of people seem to like.

Scarlet is a non-issue if the dungeon itself is good.

And virtually every thread I’ve ever seen on it says it takes too long for the rewards. I bet you that if the rewards were more, people would do it. Even people who didn’t like it.

dungeon flavor actually matters.
Twilight arbor/sylvari always was low on my list of dungeon coolness, just cause i dont like em that much, and scarlet annoys me whenever i see her. Its not like the my head explodes, but its a deterrent.

The people in my guild who don’t run it enjoy it…they just think it’s not worth the time investment. They can run two, three smaller dungeons in the time it takes that run that once.

KarlaGrey.5903:

Now why’d you have to delete that beautiful post of yours there, vayne.

p.s. I know you don’t want to consider, let alone believe it, but the reason why your guildies thought that path was too long very likely (also) had to do with the unskippables and the puzzles.

I deleted the post because on retrospect I found I offended someone, and decided I didn’t want to do that.

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

Beldin.5498:

Btw.:
http://wildstarreport.com/2014/09/03/wildstar-omni-core/

In the true sense of their motto; “The Devs are Listening” Frost discussed how Carbine is regularly looking at and analyzing gameplay analytics. These analytics are focused on playtime, content and reward loop feedback, all of which have shifted their focus from high end content to solo gameplay. Statistics are showing the majority of Wildstar players enjoy solo play instead of larger raids which really caught Carbine developers off guard

Devs keep saying it, over the years, over and over again, and the hard core crowd keep denying it. Why is it so hard to believe you’re part of a minority?

all you guys are not really reading the report, it didnt say hardcore, it said people want solo activities.
Perhaps all the hub bub about people not wanting challenge is being conflated with people not wanting high number of player content.

After all, i love challenge, but i seldom do raids. I dont really tend to like the culture created by raids either, though that may be different with gw2 drop systems.

point is, desire for low/small man content is not the same thing as desire for easy content

It’s possible. It’s also likely that the solo content in that game isn’t particularly challenging and so you couldn’t really say much either way.

Any exotic 68th level or higher salvages into a chance for ectos and dark matter, which is used for crafting legendaries. The runes are also sometimes very valuable.

Even in PvE you can get level 76 drops as a level 80.

They’re fine.

TheDevice.2751:

Caedmon.6798:

We’ve had hundreds of threads like these,mounts won’t be coming to gw2..and most threads about mounts will get removed.

Btw,i honestly think the mounting in Archeage is a dull experience,to be completely fair archeage as a whole is completely dull,the game feels like a job with everything you do..Gw2 is still miles ahead of archeage imo.

Also im kinda confused as how you think leveling and exploring in gw2 is boring while you dont find it boring in archeage ? Gw2 has an awesome atmosphere and the pve zones are Really well thought through and theres something pretty to see and to explore everywhere you look and go.While in archeage its all a bland,boring,empty big space with little atmosphere and it feels unfinished,unpolished.Look at their dungeons,its just pathetic to call it a dungeon at all.All the quests are the same,go kill 10 monsters because i say so,then pick 10 of these because i want you to,come back here so i give you some xp and silver and gtfo to the next guy who will give you the exact same quests again …yadayada.
Anyway…no mounts ;p

what!? Archeage mount system is brilliant. The charging and mounted combat is so much fun. And “lightyears” ahead? Don’t think so… Gw2 doesn’t even have a relevant guild system.. Gw2 doesn’t have guild halls/keeps… Gw2 is so restrictive with its weapons and armor towards classes (an incredibly outdated system btw.. Mages use robes.. warriors use armor.. ZzZzZz) And lots to see sure but nothing to gain. The scenery in archeage is just as beautiful if not more gorgeous than gw2… and you can fly above while also venturing.. and go on boats while waging real boat battles.

The stealth system in AA is INCREDIBLE. Its so simple, effective, and BALANCED. SpamWars has much to learn about variety and BALANCE and can take notes from the very newly released AA.

And lets talk about those dungeons. LOL. Gw2 has the most boring dungeons ive ever experienced in any game ever. The bosses are a joke. Here’s your boss batte: Stack, buff, kill, rinse repeat. Only a few viable classes for dungeons (qq necro).

I understand fanboyism.. but lets face facts for once.. AA is amazing.

AA has good points and bad points. Depending on your play style, it can be more or less amazing. It’s great for trolls and hard core open world PvP types. It’s bad for a lot of other people.

NoTrigger.8396:

Vayne.8563:

NoTrigger.8396:

i dont form arguments with you because it is pointless.

go to the dungeon forums, make a thread, and ask the people why they dont run the path. then come back and talk.

and for the rewards, why should i make myself watch unskippable boring stuff and do boring puzzles when i can run a more fun dungeon path for more rewards on top of that? thats the thing.

Dear Anet, make hard content, but only make it specifically the way I specifically want hard content, because that’s what literally everyone wants.

Sincerely.

Hard core guy

with this post you have disqualified yourself from any further discussion.

Look you’re the one saying literally everyone agrees. Literally means there are no exceptions, everyone agrees. I don’t think everyone agrees.

What percentage of the playerbase even posts in the dungeon forums. I don’t, I run dungeons. There are ten people who run dungeons in my guild and not a single one of them post.

And none of them run TA Aetherblade even if I want to. When I ask why they tell me, it’s too long, for the reward you get…and that’s all they say. They don’t complain about the puzzles. They don’t complain about the cut scenes.

They complain about time vs reward. So you know, I understand that you believe the dungeon forums represent some sort of player consensus, but I don’t think that’s the case.

NoTrigger.8396:

Vayne.8563:

NoTrigger.8396:

Vayne.8563:

TA Aetherblade path is harder, but you guys don’t just want harder. You want better rewards.

why people dont run TA Aether:
- unskippable cutscenes
- ooze and electric floor puzzle (both is pretty much stupid and boring)
- scarlet
- scarlet
- even more scarlet

if they replaced both puzzles with fun and complex bosses the path would be ok actually. and no, TA aether is not harder than any other dungeon.

The unskippable cut scenes are relatively short…except for the first one anyway. The ooze puzzle is relatively fast and easy. The electric floor puzzle a lot of people seem to like.

Scarlet is a non-issue if the dungeon itself is good.

And virtually every thread I’ve ever seen on it says it takes too long for the rewards. I bet you that if the rewards were more, people would do it. Even people who didn’t like it.

the funny thing about your posts is that somehow you are always right and everyone else is always wrong. ok vayne.
you should probably stop playing the forums and start playing the game. because literally everyone hates the puzzles and the cutscenes.

Literally everyone hates the puzzles. Oh wait…I don’t hate the puzzles. Therefore LITERALLY EVERYONE doesn’t hate the puzzles.

Even in this thread people have said they’d play it if the rewards were better. You’ll have to do better than that to form an argument.

NoTrigger.8396:

Vayne.8563:

TA Aetherblade path is harder, but you guys don’t just want harder. You want better rewards.

why people dont run TA Aether:
- unskippable cutscenes
- ooze and electric floor puzzle (both is pretty much stupid and boring)
- scarlet
- scarlet
- even more scarlet

if they replaced both puzzles with fun and complex bosses the path would be ok actually. and no, TA aether is not harder than any other dungeon.

The unskippable cut scenes are relatively short…except for the first one anyway. The ooze puzzle is relatively fast and easy. The electric floor puzzle a lot of people seem to like.

Scarlet is a non-issue if the dungeon itself is good.

And virtually every thread I’ve ever seen on it says it takes too long for the rewards. I bet you that if the rewards were more, people would do it. Even people who didn’t like it.

Nick.6972:

Beldin.5498:

cranos.5913:

Beldin.5498:

Btw.:
http://wildstarreport.com/2014/09/03/wildstar-omni-core/

In the true sense of their motto; “The Devs are Listening” Frost discussed how Carbine is regularly looking at and analyzing gameplay analytics. These analytics are focused on playtime, content and reward loop feedback, all of which have shifted their focus from high end content to solo gameplay. Statistics are showing the majority of Wildstar players enjoy solo play instead of larger raids which really caught Carbine developers off guard

That’s quite surprising indeed.

What exactly is your point though? xD

The point is that this is just another statement from Devs that there are not sooo many
people that really want hardcore content than some people think.

Wildstar was a game that was catered especially to those people that wanted very
hard content .. and this shows for me that all those people that say : we need hardcore
content else GW2 will dye .. are just wrong.

I don’t say we don’t need new content .. and that a little bit hardcore content would be
wrong .. but just that catering especially for hardcore crowd and don’t care about the
casual players wouldn’t “save” the game .. but do maybe more damage than it helps

How is making 1 elite instance for those who enjoy elite content catering to hardcore crowd when 99.9% of the GW2 is literally “stand afk, use auto attack, watch tv, check facebook, check GW2, click on dungeon reward.”
Please elaborate.

Lets say they introduced extremely hard instance, would it instantaneously somehow stop you from enjoying the rest of the game? Would it stop you from continuing exploring the world? Doing events?
Cosmetic reward aren’t needed to enjoy the game which would most likely be brought with the said instance. You’ve advocated gem store before, so don’t complain about it if you don’t want to sound hypocritical.

No, it wouldn’t ruin the game. Nor would it save the game for hard core players. You guys say you want one instance, but you always want better rewards. Once you get good at that instance and farm it, you’ll want another and another and another. It becomes a regular drain on the resources of the company.

TA Aetherblade path is harder, but you guys don’t just want harder. You want better rewards.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

Beldin.5498:

Btw.:
http://wildstarreport.com/2014/09/03/wildstar-omni-core/

In the true sense of their motto; “The Devs are Listening” Frost discussed how Carbine is regularly looking at and analyzing gameplay analytics. These analytics are focused on playtime, content and reward loop feedback, all of which have shifted their focus from high end content to solo gameplay. Statistics are showing the majority of Wildstar players enjoy solo play instead of larger raids which really caught Carbine developers off guard

Devs keep saying it, over the years, over and over again, and the hard core crowd keep denying it. Why is it so hard to believe you’re part of a minority?

Because — on forums — they aren’t…

That actually makes a lot of sense.

Galphar.3901:

Vayne.8563:

Chrispy.5641:

Vayne.8563:

Chrispy.5641:

Vayne.8563:

Chrispy.5641:

Vayne.8563:

DaShi.1368:

Vayne.8563:

And since the personal story technically begins in the introduction and then you get it again an hour later, it should work for most people.

You may get it an hour later, but many players don’t. It’s reasonable to say that new players will take significantly longer to reach the next part of the story.

Not if they’re following the arrow they won’t. It really is that fast. I can get to level 10 much faster than an hour. An hour isn’t an unreasonable time frame for a new person to get to the story.

New Players aren’t going to hit level 10 in under an hour because they don’t really understand what they are doing. Even experienced players aren’t going to hit level 10 in under an hour. Only those who 100% know what they are doing will ever level that fast, and even then, you’re probably skipping a lot of stuff in order to get there, stuff that a new/mildly experienced player isn’t going to skip over.

Vayne, I know you like defending Anet. 99.9% of your posts do only that, but, giving out misinformation isn’t the best way to go about it.

I’ve tested it on two professions so far and hit level ten in under an hour on both of them. That’s not misinformation, that’s a fact.

And are you a new player? Try reading what I wrote.

I also wasn’t rushing. Some new players will hit in in an hour and if it takes them an hour and ten minutes, what’s exactly the big deal. It’s not going to take them four hours.

The bottom line is the leveling speed is greatly increased. ANYONE who hits events as they go are going to level faster though…even new players. That’s how you level in an hour.

so your demanding that new players level the same way you level so they can level in an hour? They can’t go towards that windmill in the distance? They can’t mess around because they discovered underwater combat for the first time? They can’t talk to the vendor to see what they are selling? They can’t go to that fort that Centaur are attacking and help? These are just some of the things that a new player will do when playing for the first time.

You’re still basing a new player’s experience off of yourself, which means, you’re still lying about the new player experience.

I’m demanding nothing. If a new player is experienced in MMOs they’re going to level relatively fast. If they’re new to MMOs they’ll need the time to get used to stuff.

You accused me of spreading misinformation. You’ve now accused me of demanding someone play like I do.

If they follow the arrow, which is what most new players would logically do, they’ll level fast.

If you don’t agree, that’s fine. But stop trying to twist what I’m saying. It doesn’t help your argument at all.

And you are assuming that a new player will automatically know what that arrow is for and follow it. I have heard of some players(not new but veteran) who it has taken 3-4 hrs to hit 15 in the “NPE”. I think Chrispy’s point is that not everyone will follow that arrow and get to 15 in an hr.

There is nothing else TO follow. They’ll see an arrow and nothing else and not follow it? I find that a bit hard to believe. You’d have to try really hard to get to level 10 in 3 hours.

Beldin.5498:

Btw.:
http://wildstarreport.com/2014/09/03/wildstar-omni-core/

In the true sense of their motto; “The Devs are Listening” Frost discussed how Carbine is regularly looking at and analyzing gameplay analytics. These analytics are focused on playtime, content and reward loop feedback, all of which have shifted their focus from high end content to solo gameplay. Statistics are showing the majority of Wildstar players enjoy solo play instead of larger raids which really caught Carbine developers off guard

Devs keep saying it, over the years, over and over again, and the hard core crowd keep denying it. Why is it so hard to believe you’re part of a minority?

You can’t reset the account. You’ll always have the same achievement points. You can delete everything in your bank, give away all your gold. You can change servers for free that way.

But you’ll still have achievement points.

Chrispy.5641:

Vayne.8563:

Chrispy.5641:

Vayne.8563:

Chrispy.5641:

Vayne.8563:

DaShi.1368:

Vayne.8563:

And since the personal story technically begins in the introduction and then you get it again an hour later, it should work for most people.

You may get it an hour later, but many players don’t. It’s reasonable to say that new players will take significantly longer to reach the next part of the story.

Not if they’re following the arrow they won’t. It really is that fast. I can get to level 10 much faster than an hour. An hour isn’t an unreasonable time frame for a new person to get to the story.

New Players aren’t going to hit level 10 in under an hour because they don’t really understand what they are doing. Even experienced players aren’t going to hit level 10 in under an hour. Only those who 100% know what they are doing will ever level that fast, and even then, you’re probably skipping a lot of stuff in order to get there, stuff that a new/mildly experienced player isn’t going to skip over.

Vayne, I know you like defending Anet. 99.9% of your posts do only that, but, giving out misinformation isn’t the best way to go about it.

I’ve tested it on two professions so far and hit level ten in under an hour on both of them. That’s not misinformation, that’s a fact.

And are you a new player? Try reading what I wrote.

I also wasn’t rushing. Some new players will hit in in an hour and if it takes them an hour and ten minutes, what’s exactly the big deal. It’s not going to take them four hours.

The bottom line is the leveling speed is greatly increased. ANYONE who hits events as they go are going to level faster though…even new players. That’s how you level in an hour.

so your demanding that new players level the same way you level so they can level in an hour? They can’t go towards that windmill in the distance? They can’t mess around because they discovered underwater combat for the first time? They can’t talk to the vendor to see what they are selling? They can’t go to that fort that Centaur are attacking and help? These are just some of the things that a new player will do when playing for the first time.

You’re still basing a new player’s experience off of yourself, which means, you’re still lying about the new player experience.

I’m demanding nothing. If a new player is experienced in MMOs they’re going to level relatively fast. If they’re new to MMOs they’ll need the time to get used to stuff.

You accused me of spreading misinformation. You’ve now accused me of demanding someone play like I do.

If they follow the arrow, which is what most new players would logically do, they’ll level fast.

If you don’t agree, that’s fine. But stop trying to twist what I’m saying. It doesn’t help your argument at all.

Chrispy.5641:

Vayne.8563:

Chrispy.5641:

Vayne.8563:

DaShi.1368:

Vayne.8563:

And since the personal story technically begins in the introduction and then you get it again an hour later, it should work for most people.

You may get it an hour later, but many players don’t. It’s reasonable to say that new players will take significantly longer to reach the next part of the story.

Not if they’re following the arrow they won’t. It really is that fast. I can get to level 10 much faster than an hour. An hour isn’t an unreasonable time frame for a new person to get to the story.

New Players aren’t going to hit level 10 in under an hour because they don’t really understand what they are doing. Even experienced players aren’t going to hit level 10 in under an hour. Only those who 100% know what they are doing will ever level that fast, and even then, you’re probably skipping a lot of stuff in order to get there, stuff that a new/mildly experienced player isn’t going to skip over.

Vayne, I know you like defending Anet. 99.9% of your posts do only that, but, giving out misinformation isn’t the best way to go about it.

I’ve tested it on two professions so far and hit level ten in under an hour on both of them. That’s not misinformation, that’s a fact.

And are you a new player? Try reading what I wrote.

I also wasn’t rushing. Some new players will hit in in an hour and if it takes them an hour and ten minutes, what’s exactly the big deal. It’s not going to take them four hours.

The bottom line is the leveling speed is greatly increased. ANYONE who hits events as they go are going to level faster though…even new players. That’s how you level in an hour.

Chrispy.5641:

Vayne.8563:

DaShi.1368:

Vayne.8563:

And since the personal story technically begins in the introduction and then you get it again an hour later, it should work for most people.

You may get it an hour later, but many players don’t. It’s reasonable to say that new players will take significantly longer to reach the next part of the story.

Not if they’re following the arrow they won’t. It really is that fast. I can get to level 10 much faster than an hour. An hour isn’t an unreasonable time frame for a new person to get to the story.

New Players aren’t going to hit level 10 in under an hour because they don’t really understand what they are doing. Even experienced players aren’t going to hit level 10 in under an hour. Only those who 100% know what they are doing will ever level that fast, and even then, you’re probably skipping a lot of stuff in order to get there, stuff that a new/mildly experienced player isn’t going to skip over.

Vayne, I know you like defending Anet. 99.9% of your posts do only that, but, giving out misinformation isn’t the best way to go about it.

I’ve tested it on two professions so far and hit level ten in under an hour on both of them. That’s not misinformation, that’s a fact.

Rpgtabbycat.5869:

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

Actually I don’t overestimate Anet. But I don’t overestimate the forums either. Everyone on the forums is a complete stranger. I don’t know them at all. I’ve seen them post but I don’t always or even often agree with posts.

Anet is a company. The people who work there are. to some degree, proven entities. They produced a game I like. You didn’t. So I choose to trust them over you…knowing that everyone is fallible.

I believe the NPE was necessary but, as always with Anet, they took too strong a hand to it…and some of that has been subsequently rectified.

Anet as a company has often over-reacted. But it doesn’t mean the NPE was unnecessary.

snip

These forums are actually a very powerful resource that generally companies have to pay people for, Some one just has to figure out how to correctly harness that.

No, I don’t dismiss the forum as nobodies. Anet says they tested this and it worked. Are they lying? Are the opinions of the forums better than Anet’s tests? Are you saying Anet is too incompetent to read their own data?

Maybe they are, maybe they’re not. But they tested it. We didn’t. So until we see the proof one way or another, I’m going to go with Anet.

The forums may or may not have a point (when they can agree on anything).

Anet has made three really bad decisions since the game started as far as I’m concerned.

The introduction of ascended gear.
The trait system revamp.
The end of the personal story from the 9/9 update.

That’s three really bad changes from my point of view out of a whole lot of changes. It’s a pretty good track record for me.

That doesn’t mean I dismiss the forums. I listen to what’s said and in this instance I judge Anet’s data to be a better source…until we hear otherwise. At the very least, we should wait for data from the weekend to be processed/revealed.

Colin said if it doesn’t work they’ll let us know. Hopefully they’ll be forthcoming with some information about this soon.

its not about incompetence, its an art and a science to truely understand and use data. Also, it may not even be anet’s error. Often companies pay some one else to gather the data and analyze the results and give them back some bullet points. Perhaps these companies didnt really understand the intricacies of the groups they were dealing with.

Point is, using data correctly at a high level isnt like look data gave me the answers, its something even people whose whole life is research fail at fairly consistently. Take a look at the salt causes high blood pressure question, numerous studies, numerous statistics, proffesionals, and still they get new data, or have to qualify their findings.

also its not so much about the forums agreeing on something, it more about what they are saying, what they are observing, why they are predicting X

anyhow it, just like metrics is not something you can just look at and it gives you the answers, they still will have to do their developer thing. But it is a resource.

What Anet says was that they tried a bunch of different builds and one build showed that more people stayed playing longer.

I’m not really sure how to misinterpret that.

This new change discourages the creation of alts. That in turn limits how much revenue (if any) they are going to make on purchasable character slots.

Someone new to an MMO is going to be confused no matter what. This gating things at levels that don’t even make sense doesn’t help at all.

Anet is working on something for altoholics as well, so I guess we have to see what that is. MMOs are always works in progress. Right now it’s less convenient to make an alt (even though I personally don’t have a problem with anything but the traits and the end of the personal story).

The future will bring more changes to make it better. That’s how MMOs roll. Remember when rangers were like the posterboy for underpowered. Now everyone is running around with them.

Altoholics will have their day.

DaShi.1368:

I did understand that. That’s why I used your example. I thought we were on the same page.

Apparently not. Though it is 2 am here, so I’m certainly not as sharp as I would be earlier. In fact, that’s it for me.

OP, sorry if I got the wrong end of the stick. In essence I agree with your issues.

DaShi.1368:

I apologize if you took offense, but I simply wanted to know what you consider good writing for a forum post, since you deemed the OP’s post as bad writing. If you’re going to take my posts so literally, why do you complain if I follow your same example? I think you should relax.

Look, it’s nothing to do with taking offense. It’s a figure of speech meaning that the OP wasn’t trying to do something serious. That’s ALL it meant.

And I think most people would have understood that.

DaShi.1368:

I tend to read every word of a post that I plan to respond to. I certainly don’t write paragraphs of criticism on posts that I haven’t even read.

And do you really compare everything to a “serious treatise on world peace”? Now I’m very curious as to what this would look like and why you think that people should be posting in that style.

Do you take every word everyone writes literally? Why would you do that? Not the first time we’ve crossed paths, so I’ll save myself the breath of responding to you now. I already know your agenda.

Taygus.4571:

Vayne.8563:

I remember being frustrated by it when I first logged in. And you know, it didn’t put me off, it annoyed me and that was it. But because it annoyed me, I don’t see why it should be there specifically. I mean why is being there better than being elsewhere?

because it;s already there?

In fact just prevent anyone below level 20 being able to use it. That would do the trick.
have a message like “sorry this under repair, please come back later”.

Yep, that would work.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Vayne.8563:

I wasn’t attacking you. I didn’t get it because I don’t know enough about Harry Potter to get it. My bad. Had you done it with Game of Thrones I’d have gotten in.

That said, Anet knows about it and they’re working on it.

Edit: Even I’ve said the end of the story has been pretty much destroyed.

This post makes it clear that you didn’t read the OP at all. To make a conscise point:

Chapter 3: Harry and Ron save Hermione.

Chapter 4: Harry meets Ron and Hermione.

The OP basically did this three times. One chapter Harry helps/saves XYZ; next chapter Harry meets/finds XYZ.

You don’t need to know about Harry Potter, since aside from names, it makes no reference to it. Switch out the names of anyone – even people from different stories – and you get the same scenario.

As to ArenaNet fixing the PS… I’m becoming doubtful. No word on such, and they’ve already implemented “fixes” stealthly. While the two-three people who went through it said no changes, I wouldn’t be surprised if there were minor changes that fixes the inconsistencies but keeps the story order, as I’ve heard that people who never played it before didn’t realize any story errors (such people likely didn’t pick the Priory’s plan during Further into Orr and apparently didn’t pay attention to how they kill an Eye then are introduced to the Eyes – but if Anet fixed the dialogue after the 9/30 update, but not the story order, then naturally they wouldn’t notice these things).

Yes, well, what can you do. I’m sure you read every single word of every single post. I said it was my bad. If that’s not good enough for you, it’s largely irrelevant.

Because it was information I was unfamiliar with, my brain didn’t make that association.

As I said, I agree with what the OP is trying to say, but I don’t like the way he said it. Which is fine. It wasn’t obviously meant to be a serious treatise on world peace.

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

Actually I don’t overestimate Anet. But I don’t overestimate the forums either. Everyone on the forums is a complete stranger. I don’t know them at all. I’ve seen them post but I don’t always or even often agree with posts.

Anet is a company. The people who work there are. to some degree, proven entities. They produced a game I like. You didn’t. So I choose to trust them over you…knowing that everyone is fallible.

I believe the NPE was necessary but, as always with Anet, they took too strong a hand to it…and some of that has been subsequently rectified.

Anet as a company has often over-reacted. But it doesn’t mean the NPE was unnecessary.

The idea of retaining more new players is a great one. The execution of that idea and effectiveness its whats questionable.

As for forums, its tricky but there are people on the forum who seem to be “Experts” in thier fields, not that they are always right, or give the complete answer, but they understand things about the game that are beyond what even anet staff can see. There are posts the day patch notes on any given topic comes out, that accurately reflect what the future response will be, and how it effects the game. There are bugs found withing the first 5 minutes of playing that QA missed in however long their testing cycle is.

You can dismiss the forum as just some nobodies who dont really know anything, but somewhere in all of those posts 20 page long discussions, is almost always the guy who saw XYZ coming, or noticed something Devs didnt consider. Its not always the same guy, but the answers are there. Even when they dont have the answer, they often give insight into how different types of players are interacting with the game.

think about it, say you have 10 smart people who play the game a lot, discussing and analyzing an issue with open minds for 20 pages. Do you really think at anet has the time and energy to duplicate that?

These forums are actually a very powerful resource that generally companies have to pay people for, Some one just has to figure out how to correctly harness that.

No, I don’t dismiss the forum as nobodies. Anet says they tested this and it worked. Are they lying? Are the opinions of the forums better than Anet’s tests? Are you saying Anet is too incompetent to read their own data?

Maybe they are, maybe they’re not. But they tested it. We didn’t. So until we see the proof one way or another, I’m going to go with Anet.

The forums may or may not have a point (when they can agree on anything).

Anet has made three really bad decisions since the game started as far as I’m concerned.

The introduction of ascended gear.
The trait system revamp.
The end of the personal story from the 9/9 update.

That’s three really bad changes from my point of view out of a whole lot of changes. It’s a pretty good track record for me.

That doesn’t mean I dismiss the forums. I listen to what’s said and in this instance I judge Anet’s data to be a better source…until we hear otherwise. At the very least, we should wait for data from the weekend to be processed/revealed.

Colin said if it doesn’t work they’ll let us know. Hopefully they’ll be forthcoming with some information about this soon.

its not about incompetence, its an art and a science to truely understand and use data. Also, it may not even be anet’s error. Often companies pay some one else to gather the data and analyze the results and give them back some bullet points. Perhaps these companies didnt really understand the intricacies of the groups they were dealing with.

Point is, using data correctly at a high level isnt like look data gave me the answers, its something even people whose whole life is research fail at fairly consistently. Take a look at the salt causes high blood pressure question, numerous studies, numerous statistics, proffesionals, and still they get new data, or have to qualify their findings.

also its not so much about the forums agreeing on something, it more about what they are saying, what they are observing, why they are predicting X

anyhow it, just like metrics is not something you can just look at and it gives you the answers, they still will have to do their developer thing. But it is a resource.

What Anet says was that they tried a bunch of different builds and one build showed that more people stayed playing longer.

I’m not really sure how to misinterpret that.

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

Actually I don’t overestimate Anet. But I don’t overestimate the forums either. Everyone on the forums is a complete stranger. I don’t know them at all. I’ve seen them post but I don’t always or even often agree with posts.

Anet is a company. The people who work there are. to some degree, proven entities. They produced a game I like. You didn’t. So I choose to trust them over you…knowing that everyone is fallible.

I believe the NPE was necessary but, as always with Anet, they took too strong a hand to it…and some of that has been subsequently rectified.

Anet as a company has often over-reacted. But it doesn’t mean the NPE was unnecessary.

The idea of retaining more new players is a great one. The execution of that idea and effectiveness its whats questionable.

As for forums, its tricky but there are people on the forum who seem to be “Experts” in thier fields, not that they are always right, or give the complete answer, but they understand things about the game that are beyond what even anet staff can see. There are posts the day patch notes on any given topic comes out, that accurately reflect what the future response will be, and how it effects the game. There are bugs found withing the first 5 minutes of playing that QA missed in however long their testing cycle is.

You can dismiss the forum as just some nobodies who dont really know anything, but somewhere in all of those posts 20 page long discussions, is almost always the guy who saw XYZ coming, or noticed something Devs didnt consider. Its not always the same guy, but the answers are there. Even when they dont have the answer, they often give insight into how different types of players are interacting with the game.

think about it, say you have 10 smart people who play the game a lot, discussing and analyzing an issue with open minds for 20 pages. Do you really think at anet has the time and energy to duplicate that?

These forums are actually a very powerful resource that generally companies have to pay people for, Some one just has to figure out how to correctly harness that.

No, I don’t dismiss the forum as nobodies. Anet says they tested this and it worked. Are they lying? Are the opinions of the forums better than Anet’s tests? Are you saying Anet is too incompetent to read their own data?

Maybe they are, maybe they’re not. But they tested it. We didn’t. So until we see the proof one way or another, I’m going to go with Anet.

The forums may or may not have a point (when they can agree on anything).

Anet has made three really bad decisions since the game started as far as I’m concerned.

The introduction of ascended gear.
The trait system revamp.
The end of the personal story from the 9/9 update.

That’s three really bad changes from my point of view out of a whole lot of changes. It’s a pretty good track record for me.

That doesn’t mean I dismiss the forums. I listen to what’s said and in this instance I judge Anet’s data to be a better source…until we hear otherwise. At the very least, we should wait for data from the weekend to be processed/revealed.

Colin said if it doesn’t work they’ll let us know. Hopefully they’ll be forthcoming with some information about this soon.

I remember being frustrated by it when I first logged in. And you know, it didn’t put me off, it annoyed me and that was it. But because it annoyed me, I don’t see why it should be there specifically. I mean why is being there better than being elsewhere?

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

munkiman.3068:

Vayne.8563:

Right and my audience is tiny. No one thinks the way I do. You’re so busy trying to prove I’m a white knight, you didn’t even read what I said. I said I have a group and you have a group and there are a bunch of other groups. I’m not sure why you’d find that so unreasonable. In fact, if you reread what I wrote, there’s nothing in it at all that’s white knightish. I just pointed out that different groups don’t always agree even if they like or don’t like the game. If you think there’s something untrue about that okay. Maybe you’re just hung up on the fact that I’m a white knight so you don’t read what I actually said.

Anet has hard numbers on how many people try the game and how many people continue playing past level 10, level 20. How many go on to buy the game. You saying it’s not broken means about as much as me saying it is. That is, neither comment holds any real weight, because we don’t have the facts.

We do have a quote from Colin saying it’s “absolutely not good enough”, referring to player retention. If you want to argue that, go ahead. But I don’t think you have the evidence, other than I know guys who think like I do. Well yeah, I know guys who think like I do.

I wish you would read what people write sometimes. I actually find your insights balanced ankitten OT in agreement of the white knight comments. It’s like a trigger or something with you when you see those words, i guess.

I’m not sure how many times i’ve said, i’m stating an opinion. I clearly don’t have access to metrics, im not trying to state things as facts. But, metrics is my point and you often defend that you think the game is healthy, which i guess isn’t the case.

Anyways, always nice typing with you.

Right, that’s sort of my point though. You’re saying something isn’t broken. I’m saying I don’t know if it’s broken or not, but Anet would know if it was broken.

This isn’t something we get to decide, because we don’t own the company. We don’t get to decide if the game is “sticky” enough in the first 10 level or first 20 levels. No matter what our opinions. It’s one thing to say I like this or I don’t like that. It’s another to say the starting experience isn’t “broken”. Because the criteria for it being broken is not getting people to play for longer.

you always overestimate anet as a company. Too much of your reasoning is based on the idea that if anet has chosen to do something it must be because its the right answer.

First of all data is deceptive, anyone who takes statistics knows this. 2nd of all people are notoriously bad at interpreting data. People whose life work it is to collect and interpret data scientifically still OFTEN have their findings overturned, by new data or new experiments. Even if you have excellent data, what you choose to do about it or what you think causes it is often still suspect.

the people in charge are just people, they make misteps, mistakes etc.

Note, gw2, with the NPE did not do as well in china as the original did in US/EU, even though thats a larger market. Metrics were taken into account to produce what should have been a better game, but it didnt sell as well.

Metrics/descions made by people in charge are not always the right/best decsions

Actually I don’t overestimate Anet. But I don’t overestimate the forums either. Everyone on the forums is a complete stranger. I don’t know them at all. I’ve seen them post but I don’t always or even often agree with posts.

Anet is a company. The people who work there are. to some degree, proven entities. They produced a game I like. You didn’t. So I choose to trust them over you…knowing that everyone is fallible.

I believe the NPE was necessary but, as always with Anet, they took too strong a hand to it…and some of that has been subsequently rectified.

Anet as a company has often over-reacted. But it doesn’t mean the NPE was unnecessary.

Feralnex.4072:

So You guys think this is normal? You know how much time it takes to get this achievs? Even if there is grind but why you have to spend on it hundreds/thousands hours to get it…?

No I don’t think it’s normal. I think it sucks.

But you’re complaining about grind. The real complaint is the achievements are badly balanced. They’ll be a grind though.

I think the point was some people did find it confusing, but confusing things can be frustrating, particularly when you’re just starting a game.

I think they should put it back elsewhere in the game, away from new players. Maybe in your home instance in Rata Sum or something.

Devata.6589:

Vayne.8563:

@Devata

Case 1. Product purchased changes and you didn’t get the changes.
Case 2. Anet gave a bonus for a purchase that was already made…they didn’t change the original purchase.

It’s called a promotion and many companies do it. The two cases have nothing at all to do with each other.

And at least one of the times they gave gem item bonuses it was because you bought gems between certain dates. People who didn’t buy them before that date didn’t qualify. That’s not theory. You had to buy gems during a certain period to qualify for the purchase.

There may have been another instance, but I can’t say for sure that everyone who ever bought gems got that bonus. In any event, it’s still not remotely the same.

In one case, you bought and object and that object changed and you’re asking for more. It’s like when the game goes on sale now, do you expect a refund for the difference from what you paid? Because that’s the same situation.

A bonus item given on a purchase is the companies choice. It’s a nice thing for them to do. (Of course they do it for the good will, not just out of the goodness of their hearts) but again, no one is entitled to those gems. That’s what makes it a bonus.

Well you see them adding goodies as a change of the object and he does see adding goodies as giving an extra bonus for buying the object (just like they did with people who did buy gems).

Also you seem to forget that he talks about the CE while your example is more like talking about the normal version.

So with the CE it becomes more like. Paying more to get more and to support the company. In a way buying additional gems could be seen the same. Both going the extra mile. However in the one occasion they did say “you did go the extra mile so here are even more extra goodies for it” and in the other occasion they did not.

And based on that information you may.. or may not think that they should have given that to those CE buyers.

Maybe they should have said “We did give gem-buyers extra items (you buy with gems) to thank them for there extra support and now we give CE buyers extra items you now get with buying the game for thanking them for there extra support.” Maybe not.

But I do think it’s relevant information to the discussion. And thats really I wanted to add to this discussion.. just that information.

Do with it what you want.

I don’t think it’s relevant in the slightest.

A company has the choice to offer rewards and promotions, they’re not obligated to. The Anet quote said it’s not smart business to do it, but that response to specifically to this situation…ie changing a product and the providing people with the changed product. If they set that precedent it would be a bad precedent to set.

It’s completely different than giving a reward for something as a promotion.

In either case no one was entitled to either.

But you know if Anet replies to a specific situation, and you’re bringing up a different situation, I can’t see how it applies.

CrashTestAuto.9108:

Vayne.8563:

I wasn’t attacking you. I didn’t get it because I don’t know enough about Harry Potter to get it. My bad. Had you done it with Game of Thrones I’d have gotten in.

That said, Anet knows about it and they’re working on it.

Edit: Even I’ve said the end of the story has been pretty much destroyed.

Well then maybe you could work on your communication

I did set this up as a game, and people can bring their own stories (I’d avoid GoT as it’s pretty spoilerific).

The point though isn’t just that ANet should be working on it, it’s to stress that this sort of thing shouldn’t happen at all. The NPE, SAB, heck even the trait changes can all be made without disrespecting the game. But acting like it doesn’t matter if the story doesn’t make sense illustrates a lack of respect for what the game actually is. Again, no one would dream of doing this to a novel of a film (well, FOX did it to Firefly, but look what happened there).

No question at all, the changes to the end of the Personal story was bad. Not only no argument from me, but I’ve already said it elsewhere. They’re very bad.

I read some of Harry Potter when it first came out and never saw the movies, so I got the wrong end of the stick…that’s all.

As I said, my bad.

CrashTestAuto.9108:

Vayne.8563:

If he was doing that, he did a bad job, because the story only gets out of order at the very end. It’s the last 70 and 80 level stories. But he’s starting with Chapter 1.

No, I don’t think he’s talking about the story being out of order. I think he’s talking about having to wait ten levels to play the story.

If he’s talking about it out of order, well, there’s nothing to talk about. Anet saw the problem and said they’re working on it. It’s not like Anet said it was final the way it was or good the way it was.

I’m not sure anyone disagrees with the fact that the end of the story has been completed butchered.

Wow, you really will take any opportunity to attack other players if they’re critical of something won’t you?

Firstly, yes, I was I obviously referring to the story being out of order.

Secondly, no, the story doesn’t just go out of order at the end. Several points have been changed. The earliest off the top of my head being the fact that you now get your mail and go to Ascalonian Catacombs and Caudecus’ Manor BEFORE Destiny’s Edge meet up in LA and you actually find out who they are. There’s a whole thread talking about the various other problems that have now been introduced.

Thirdly, I was quite clearly only referencing the first book in the Potter series, so this whole “serial” thing actually showed you didn’t understand my post from a GW2 or an HP side.

This was meant as a light hearted dig at the way that we should be treating the narrative of the game with the disregard that the NPE did. We wouldn’t dream of doing it with other media, and we shouldn’t here. The people who actually wrote the story presumably care about it more than I do, and their work deserves to be treated with the same respect we’d give novels or films.

I wasn’t attacking you. I didn’t get it because I don’t know enough about Harry Potter to get it. My bad. Had you done it with Game of Thrones I’d have gotten in.

That said, Anet knows about it and they’re working on it.

Edit: Even I’ve said the end of the story has been pretty much destroyed.

Elrey.5472:

Vayne.8563:

If he was doing that, he did a bad job

He did a good job. You didn’t get it. Accept it, everyone make misstakes.

If he was trying to say the end of the story was screwed and I didn’t get it, he did a bad job at communicating it to me.

There are two sets of complaints about the story. One it’s out of order. Two it’s confined to chapters that you have to wait to get to.

If he’s only talking about the end being out of order, Anet knows about it, they’re not denying it, no one is questioning it and there’s no real need to simplify it.

No one, not even Anet has said it’s good the way it is or it’s staying the way it is. So what’s the purpose of the post then?

Edit: I would assume you’d have to be familiar with Harry Potter to get it anyway. I should probably get out more. But it’s still not something that needed to be posted if he’s trying to convince Anet there’s a problem. They know.

@Devata

Case 1. Product purchased changes and you didn’t get the changes.
Case 2. Anet gave a bonus for a purchase that was already made…they didn’t change the original purchase.

It’s called a promotion and many companies do it. The two cases have nothing at all to do with each other.

And at least one of the times they gave gem item bonuses it was because you bought gems between certain dates. People who didn’t buy them before that date didn’t qualify. That’s not theory. You had to buy gems during a certain period to qualify for the purchase.

There may have been another instance, but I can’t say for sure that everyone who ever bought gems got that bonus. In any event, it’s still not remotely the same.

In one case, you bought and object and that object changed and you’re asking for more. It’s like when the game goes on sale now, do you expect a refund for the difference from what you paid? Because that’s the same situation.

A bonus item given on a purchase is the companies choice. It’s a nice thing for them to do. (Of course they do it for the good will, not just out of the goodness of their hearts) but again, no one is entitled to those gems. That’s what makes it a bonus.

Hannelore.8153:

Vayne.8563:

This is a really bad analogy. Because Harry Potter is divided into books and those books all have different plots.

The first ten levels of your story are initiated by a single question in character generation. To all intents and purposes, nothing that happens in those chapters gets brought up in the chapter 11 plus story, because it’s done. That’s it. It’s finished. It’s final.

Those characters are done and you’re onto something new. The 11-20 story which is something that pertains to a different question in character generation. It’s a completely story arc done. It doesn’t affect anything that you’re doing in the 21-30 story at all.

So you can’t compare this to a set of books that builds on itself, and it’s not fair too.

It’s more like a serial than a novel, and if you’re going to compare it to anything, that would be the thing to compare it to.

I’ve always felt the greatest flaw in the story of this game was the ten level requirement that pretty much had to shoehorn the story into the pattern. That meant writers had massive constraints they wouldn’t have had if they could just “write a story”.

He’s actually talking about the story being horribly out of order now.

If he was doing that, he did a bad job, because the story only gets out of order at the very end. It’s the last 70 and 80 level stories. But he’s starting with Chapter 1.

No, I don’t think he’s talking about the story being out of order. I think he’s talking about having to wait ten levels to play the story.

If he’s talking about it out of order, well, there’s nothing to talk about. Anet saw the problem and said they’re working on it. It’s not like Anet said it was final the way it was or good the way it was.

I’m not sure anyone disagrees with the fact that the end of the story has been completed butchered.

Even Guild Wars 1 had optional grind. And that stuff you’re talking about…it’s optional grind. You won’t get more powerful playing Keg Brawl by getting that achievement. You’ll eventually get more achievement points no matter what you do.

This isn’t quite what Anet was saying when they said there wouldn’t be grind in the game. I’m afraid you may have misinterpreted.

They did say we don’t make grindy games. They also said there would be stuff to grind for for people who like that play style.

This game was never meant to have required grind.

This is a really bad analogy. Because Harry Potter is divided into books and those books all have different plots.

The first ten levels of your story are initiated by a single question in character generation. To all intents and purposes, nothing that happens in those chapters gets brought up in the chapter 11 plus story, because it’s done. That’s it. It’s finished. It’s final.

Those characters are done and you’re onto something new. The 11-20 story which is something that pertains to a different question in character generation. It’s a completely story arc done. It doesn’t affect anything that you’re doing in the 21-30 story at all.

So you can’t compare this to a set of books that builds on itself, and it’s not fair too.

It’s more like a serial than a novel, and if you’re going to compare it to anything, that would be the thing to compare it to.

I’ve always felt the greatest flaw in the story of this game was the ten level requirement that pretty much had to shoehorn the story into the pattern. That meant writers had massive constraints they wouldn’t have had if they could just “write a story”.

@ Devata

This is exactly what you said:

“Not that I feel the need for those skins but it does show that Anet indeed does indeed reward for previous purchases (while here they say they don’t) but there priority is different. There priority is gem sales, not game / expansion sales.”

Here’s the quote from Anet:

“Sure, it’d be nice to continue to get free stuff for a purchase made in the past. I could see why you would want to get these things for free, but I hope you understand why that isn’t going to happen.”

Now what you’re doing is equating buying something that you knew what you were getting and getting something when the product changes with giving someone a reward for buying something.

Anet added value to the game by adding stuff with the purchase. They added value to buying gems by giving you something for buying gems. They didn’t go back and give that bonus to everyone that’s ever bought gems. That’s what makes it a promotion.

Comparing these two things is just ridiculous. Anet basically gave people a bonus for buying something. They didn’t give it to everyone that ever bought something. You had to qualify for it. Some people got it, and some people didn’t. If you bought it in the date range you got it and if you bought it out of the date range you didn’t.

On top of that, Anet has gone back and given people added value to stuff that they bought a long time ago, like commander tags…but they didn’t buy commander tags from the cash shop.

The bottom line is a company CAN give people a bonus for supporting them, but they aren’t obligated to and to expect it seems a bit entitled.

Do you feel the OP has a reasonable take on this or not? And if so, how do you compare it to what other businesses do? Why is it a fair take?

I understand exactly what you’re saying OP, but my experience is completely different.

First of all, leveling to level 10 is really really fast.

Secondly (and more importantly to me), the story was already broken into parts. It’s not a personal story as a whole. It’s different things that happen to your character.

Every single opening segment gives you a reason to do what you’re doing. As a norn you’re helping out because you’re trying to build your legend. As a Charr, you’re trying ot settle the non-soldiers down after a bevy of ghosts attacks. You’re actually being ordered to volunteer to do that. In the human story you’re told to go out and help people and that that’s the best way to recover. So it’s not that the game doesn’t give you reason for doing what you do. As a Sylvari you have a wild hunt to slay a dragon and you actually say, “one doesn’t just run out and kill a dragon.” And a helpful Sylvari suggests you make yourself useful and help some other people and get some experience.

But the level 11 story has nothing at all to do with the level 10 story. It’s a different story arc. There really is no reason for it to start right at the end of the last one.

Also, when you get that chunk of story, and you finish it, you’ve usually gotten about 3 levels to the next story.

Which means you have about 7 levels left.

The old way you might have two levels three times and have to wait every time. My preference was always to do them together. And that’s all it really is…a matter of preference.

This gives you each story arc as it’s own separate arc.

I know it sucks OP, but as someone with a ranger main, I get a real thrill every time I see a post about how OP I am now. You do have to admit, we’ve waited a while. lol

In truth, I agree with you… I don’t think it should be dialed “way” back but some adjustment is probably needed.

Devata.6589:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

You can read the Devs response to this matter over in the Account Issues sub-forum.

Here is one such response:

I asked about this today at a Business Team meeting. Those who purchased the Collector’s Edition are valued customers, for sure! But remember, there were a lot of goodies in that box, and it’s not customary, even if necessarily good business, to continue to give free items for a purchase made a year ago. I can’t think of any other business that would do that, that would say “I see you purchased a mixer a year ago. We’ve developed a handy new accessory and we’re sending it to you for free.”

And by the way, I’m proud to say that at the time it was released, our CE was hailed as “the best in the industry” with having so many nice in-game and physical features.

Sure, it’d be nice to continue to get free stuff for a purchase made in the past. I could see why you would want to get these things for free, but I hope you understand why that isn’t going to happen. Keep in mind that the items are available in the Gem Store or on the Trading Post, so you can get them for in-game gems, in any case I can think of.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/account/I-bought-the-CE-I-d-like-the-Heroic-items/first#post2706527

Would you be willing to give up 2 years worth of play and rewards for a set of armor and a skin of the same armor? Because that is what those that purchase the Heroic Edition today give up. It would not be worth it to me. /shrug

However they did give free stuff to people who did buy gems in the past. (I once made a thread about that).

Not that I feel the need for those skins but it does show that Anet indeed does indeed reward for previous purchases (while here they say they don’t) but there priority is different. There priority is gem sales, not game / expansion sales.

That was the reason I made a thread about that back then as I did see and still see there focus on the cash-shop in stead of game-sales as a much bigger problem.

On a side note: The CE is sure great however I would have liked it if there would have been one truly unique item in game.. unique to the CE edition only (so not in the Deluxe). That was the only negative I had about it. Something to remember for a future expansion CE.

Anet didn’t say they don’t EVER rewards for previous purchases. Everyone who bought a commander tag at 100 gold got updated functionality. People who bought cash shop picks at 800 gold when they were soulbound, enjoyed them account bound at the same price.

What’s being said it’s not reasonable to expect most stuff from a one or two year old purchase. As far as I can tell the cash shop rewards were rewarded a month or so after spending the money.

Honestly your obsessing with the cash shop is infiltrating way too many other threads…unrelated threads at that.

Alteraphim.4629:

Ooooo, nodes and kills being personal is a BIG one for me. I don’t like that form of open world PVE competition.

I don’t really mind competing for nodes and stuff but what it does is it breaks immersion. When I played Rift, I used to use knockbacks and stuns on monsters so I could gather during fights, to get it before someone else came up. Ruin the whole fight mechanic for me.

Could you imagine doing that if you were there? lol