Guild Wars 2

They’ve never all been character level. There’s always been a chance to get at level drops and a chance to get zone level drops…that’s been in the game since launch.

A long time ago, they changed the odds for zones 55th level and higher, so you’re more likely to get at level drops in those zones.

XarOneZeroNine.2374:

We are now up to 3 weeks.

Can someone from Anet point me to the official ‘what happens at every level’ guide please?

Up to now, we can only assume that what hasn’t been changed yet is exactly as it is meant to be. If that is the case there are still issues with what is left and the messaging is all over the place about it. There are also still some bugs that need to be worked out.

We were told that there were bugs, misinformation and that somethings were not implemented correctly. We were never told what exactly fell into each of those categories. I feel that a map of the new leveling system along with what exactly the NPE is supposed to contain will help drive feedback in a constructive direction.

Please may I have this ‘road map’. Surely constructive, informed feedback is the goal. If it is not implemented as intended then feedback on it is virtually worthless. Surely you can tell us what it is supposed to be right? I mean it’s live, it’s not like I am asking about future development.

There was misinformation. It was coming from players.

Players claimed you couldn’t dodge, or used the TP, or use an Asuran gate even at level 2. They were wrong to say it, because when tested it was obvious you could. People were confusing what you could do and when you were told about it.

People said you couldn’t get vistas, when what was true was they didn’t appear on your map. That’s the misinformation being referred to.

Since I’m sure that changes are being made to both a roadmap and player feedback I’m not sure how the original plan is going to help you much.

This is why it’s hard for Anet to introduce harder content into the game. There’s nothing wrong, in my opinion, with the event.

Iason Evan.3806:

Vayne.8563:

Iason Evan.3806:

Vayne.8563:

Iason Evan.3806:

Vayne.8563:

This is a really interesting post. It never worked that way when I had a table top group, because it was always about story and never about rewards. I know we’ve gone six months without getting new shinies while playing table top games and no one cared or noticed.

But we did have new story (and a great GM).

Not really my point Vayne and I have read enough of your posts in the past to know you are smart enough to know what I am getting at.

Sure I know what you’re getting at. I think the post would be a whole lot more effective if you didn’t tie it into table top games though, because frankly, I don’t think most people play them anymore and it’s a different type of game anyway.

There’s very little about this game that resembles a table top game to me. Guild Wars 1 was far more like a table top game. This is quite a different experience, probably by design.

If you want to say give us more stuff we can get in game, I’m all for it. If you want to say we wouldn’t tolerate this in table top games, go ahead. Your argument is fine. How you couched it, I don’t find particularly convincing.

I agree that more items should be available in game for playing the game.

I am glad you know what I am getting at. The thrust of my post is: If it wouldn’t be acceptable with a group of friends, why do it to people you don’t know?

The strength(or abject weakness in this case) of my analogy is moot. The point is that there are no and have been zero new rewards in the form of armor or weapons in this game for a very long time and I am sick of it.

Well, weapons we have the new ambrite weapons, which I love. That’s only been since July.

Armor, I agree with however.

But the argument you wouldn’t do this to your friends, why do it to strangers is a pretty weak argument. I don’t sell my friends stuff…I’m not in a business relationship with them. It’s just an odd thing to say. Anet isn’t my friend. They’re a company I do business with.

Presumably my friend’s rent isn’t paid in some form by me. They’re doing it to make money.

Again, there absolutely should be another armor set in the game that you can get by playing the game. I’m not disagreeing with that at all.

But phrasing it the way you did probably isn’t getting your point across as strongly as you’d like.

In my OP I stated the Insect weapons(Ambrite) weren’t rewards. They aren’t reward weapons. New reward weapons would be new items to get as drops. We aren’t getting new dungeons. I get that. Would it hurt to add new skins as drops to the only form of dungeon content we have(current dungeons)? New loot to add to loot tables for Champ boxes? New armor and weapon skins for Temple and Dynamic Events?

Adding new skins as rewards doesn’t hurt business. It strengthens your game. You can criticize the way I am conveying it all you want Vayne, it doesn’t change my point though. So stop arguing semantics. It’s totally off topic and super annoying.

I’m not arguing semantics and saying so only makes your argument look worse. Ambrite weapons are rewards to me. No idea why you think they’re not rewards.

But I’m arguing that the way you couched your argument isn’t effective and saying that’s semantics shows a lack of understanding.

It’s not semantics. It’s a badly phrased argument. I won’t post in this thread anymore, but one would think you’d want your argument to have traction? Are you attached to the argument, or the phrasing?

Iason Evan.3806:

Vayne.8563:

Iason Evan.3806:

Vayne.8563:

This is a really interesting post. It never worked that way when I had a table top group, because it was always about story and never about rewards. I know we’ve gone six months without getting new shinies while playing table top games and no one cared or noticed.

But we did have new story (and a great GM).

Not really my point Vayne and I have read enough of your posts in the past to know you are smart enough to know what I am getting at.

Sure I know what you’re getting at. I think the post would be a whole lot more effective if you didn’t tie it into table top games though, because frankly, I don’t think most people play them anymore and it’s a different type of game anyway.

There’s very little about this game that resembles a table top game to me. Guild Wars 1 was far more like a table top game. This is quite a different experience, probably by design.

If you want to say give us more stuff we can get in game, I’m all for it. If you want to say we wouldn’t tolerate this in table top games, go ahead. Your argument is fine. How you couched it, I don’t find particularly convincing.

I agree that more items should be available in game for playing the game.

I am glad you know what I am getting at. The thrust of my post is: If it wouldn’t be acceptable with a group of friends, why do it to people you don’t know?

The strength(or abject weakness in this case) of my analogy is moot. The point is that there are no and have been zero new rewards in the form of armor or weapons in this game for a very long time and I am sick of it.

Well, weapons we have the new ambrite weapons, which I love. That’s only been since July.

Armor, I agree with however.

But the argument you wouldn’t do this to your friends, why do it to strangers is a pretty weak argument. I don’t sell my friends stuff…I’m not in a business relationship with them. It’s just an odd thing to say. Anet isn’t my friend. They’re a company I do business with.

Presumably my friend’s rent isn’t paid in some form by me. They’re doing it to make money.

Again, there absolutely should be another armor set in the game that you can get by playing the game. I’m not disagreeing with that at all.

But phrasing it the way you did probably isn’t getting your point across as strongly as you’d like.

I’d like to know the answer to this too. It seems weird thing to change with no reason stated.

Iason Evan.3806:

Vayne.8563:

This is a really interesting post. It never worked that way when I had a table top group, because it was always about story and never about rewards. I know we’ve gone six months without getting new shinies while playing table top games and no one cared or noticed.

But we did have new story (and a great GM).

Not really my point Vayne and I have read enough of your posts in the past to know you are smart enough to know what I am getting at.

Sure I know what you’re getting at. I think the post would be a whole lot more effective if you didn’t tie it into table top games though, because frankly, I don’t think most people play them anymore and it’s a different type of game anyway.

There’s very little about this game that resembles a table top game to me. Guild Wars 1 was far more like a table top game. This is quite a different experience, probably by design.

If you want to say give us more stuff we can get in game, I’m all for it. If you want to say we wouldn’t tolerate this in table top games, go ahead. Your argument is fine. How you couched it, I don’t find particularly convincing.

I agree that more items should be available in game for playing the game.

This is a really interesting post. It never worked that way when I had a table top group, because it was always about story and never about rewards. I know we’ve gone six months without getting new shinies while playing table top games and no one cared or noticed.

But we did have new story (and a great GM).

Akira.5746:

For clarification, could someone write up a full list of new content (i.e. zones and dungeons) added since release that is STILL in the game?

I’ve heard about LS S1. It’s not here anymore. Same for SAB, same for Zephyr Sanctum, same for many seasonal events. The only “new” things that exist as far as I am aware are Southsun Cove, Dry Top, EotM, a small couple of fractals and SPvP maps and the Aetherpath (an unpopular path that replaced an equally unpopular path). Two zones is not exactly a lot to show after two years of mostly-squandered development time.

Anet has a problem with removing content. It is pervasive and ever-present, and shows no signs of stopping. The fact that an entire arc of the Personal Story was intentionally removed with no prior notice or explanation to date is rings as exemplar to this fundamental flaw in development and design.

I may be a relatively new player, but I am not in any way surprised when I see disenfranchised veterans drowning in disillusionment via /map chat; it is as far as I can tell the obvious conclusion, not the unreasonable one. The game has refused to change.

I really would like that list, by the way.

Five fractals, at least a couple of new jumping puzzles, guild missions (including the three largish puzzles), all the living story season 2 content, the triple wurm encounter, the karka queen….you’re right, it’s not a huge list of stuff.

It was simply a bad decision by Anet to make content and remove it.

Sokia.3710:

Someone mentioned that you have to kill Overgrown Grub to unlock one of the traits. That reminded me of that last time I was in WvWvW and someone was trying to get a group together to kill the grub. The chat went something like this:

Casual: Hey guys let’s kill the grub boss!
Me: Why would you want to kill the grub?
Random1: Go back to PvE, n00b.
Commander1: Everyone get to the keep!
Random2: Swords at keep!
Casual: We need more for grub, there’s only like 4 or 5 of us.
Commander2: If you aren’t on my tag, just uninstall the game.
Random3: Why are there a bunch of people fighting the grub?
Random4: More like, why are there a bunch of people dying at the grub.

Last time I killed the grub it went something like this.

Guildie: Can anyone help me kill the grub.
Other guildies: Give me a sec, just finishing up this event…I’ll go…sure thing.

Five minutes later the grub was dead.

People say there’s no value to guilds in this game. I just don’t get it.

Yoroiookami.3485:

Vayne.8563:

Yoroiookami.3485:

I don’t mind that they have dancing with cows now. I mind that they’re going back, throwing their entire quest system away in order to help clueless people figure out how to do basic things. The cows are an example. If the idea of changing weapons is so confusing, all they really had to do is to put a giant picture in the middle of the screen saying “YOU EQUIPPED A BUCKET, YOU CAN’T ATTACK STUFF, TO UNEQUIP IT, CLICK ~” and that would be sufficient.
Instead they decided to just change this entire thing around. And since it had to be a majority of people who had this kind of problem – I suspect that there won’t be any challenge in the future at all, since people won’t be able to figure it out.

You can guide a person through the beggining, but what’s the point if that person lacks the ability to comprehend basic ideas, like watering the plants?
That’s the real issue….that and the fact that they would restrict players so much at the beggining.
As Tachenon said – first few hours of the game should be showing players what this game is about, let them have some fun, discover things for themselves. We don’t have that element in there now.

It takes less than an hour to get to level ten now and after that the experience with hearts and events is largely the same, so you can’t say the first several hours have really changed. The first hour has changed. That’s assuming that the person in question didn’t hit the bandit event and get the heart without ever dancing in front of the cows (which happened to me when I tried it).

I highly doubt that it takes less than an hour, especially for a completely new player. Even if that’s true, it still makes the game way more tedious at the beggining. You have to wait until level 5 to rally; level 7 to get your 4th weapon skill; level 10 to start personal story and to actually discover vistas. And I’m sorry, but if these things were overwhelming for new players, chances are – they will get to level 10 in several hours.

It makes the game way more tedious to you. That’s all you can say. Since you’re not a new player and no one can ever really forget what they know, we really have no idea how a new player will find the game.

Your expectations will obviously tell you the game is less than it was. A new player, coming in with no expectations at all, might have a completely different experience.

As far as I know you only need to of the same account bound legendaries. They have to be bound to your account, not equipped.

Check out this wiki page which seems to say as much.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Historian_Dozza

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Vayne.8563:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

There’s plenty of people who agree with you, but this thread will be dominated by the same 1 or 2 posters that all negative threads are dominated by and will ultimately turn into a thread about how great GW2 is and how there are no problems. Luckily there is still an hour or two before they wake up where people can actually discuss it rationally.

Anet claims to put out content faster than any other MMO, but I just don’t see it. We have had no new areas, no new skills, no new dungeons, no raids, no new guild missions, no new PvP modes, no new races, no new trait lines, and none of the other things you see other MMO’s producing. Yes other MMO’s only put out 1 patch every 3 months and an expansion every other year, but those patches actually contain content and exciting things, and the expansions are HUGE.

Look at GW2… we are only getting patches every 3 months and they contain small stroy instances with little replayability and maybe 3-4 hours of content. The last content patch was August 12th, with the next one coming in November… same 3 month schedule as every other MMO but without the fun stuff that expansions bring.

I wasn’t going to even respond to this thread, until this bit of misinformation. Why twist the truth to try to prove something.

We haven’t had a content patch since August 12, which I count as six weeks. But before that we got content packs every two weeks, four times in a row. That, in my boat, makes it four patchs in 8 weeks before a break, afterwhich we got a feature patch, and now we have a tournament in WvW, followed by Halloween, followed by a new story patch.

I agree that the content is coming out too slow. But saying that it has a 3 month schedule, just because there’s 3 months between two specific types of patches is just a bit unreliable. I mean, it wasn’t three months between patches before that one. Or three months before that one, or three months before that one. So we’re not getting patches every three months, are we?

By all means express your opinion, but stop twisting stuff to fit a theory so easily disproved.

To clarify you say other games get patches every 3 months and we get patches every three months too. Anyone with access to the wiki and this page can disprove what you’re saying.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Release

I should clarify: I don’t make any distinction between 3 hours of content every 2 weeks for 4 releases and 12 hours of content every 3 months. They are the same to me.

When I compare GW2 to other MMO’s I see ~4 patches of LS to be equal to 1 MMO patch. Except GW2 doesn’t release expansions in between.

We have “feature” patches which are supposed to make up some of that expansion like aspect, but I just don’t see it as a success.

Edit: To be fair I thought the second half of S1 actually had some decent pacing content wise, it was just the story aspect that was lacking. Unfortunately that was mostly temp content that was removed so I can no longer justify counting it.

They may not be the same to you, but they are in fact, different. Because there are people who it takes much longer to do all the content and there are people who actually try to do the content without going to guides. It took me far more than three hours to get the achievements in each of the updates. In fact, finding all the coins I’m still not done with. I’m still missing a couple.

But yeah it’s surely three hours of content if you look everything up and do it as fast as possible.

Yoroiookami.3485:

I don’t mind that they have dancing with cows now. I mind that they’re going back, throwing their entire quest system away in order to help clueless people figure out how to do basic things. The cows are an example. If the idea of changing weapons is so confusing, all they really had to do is to put a giant picture in the middle of the screen saying “YOU EQUIPPED A BUCKET, YOU CAN’T ATTACK STUFF, TO UNEQUIP IT, CLICK ~” and that would be sufficient.
Instead they decided to just change this entire thing around. And since it had to be a majority of people who had this kind of problem – I suspect that there won’t be any challenge in the future at all, since people won’t be able to figure it out.

You can guide a person through the beggining, but what’s the point if that person lacks the ability to comprehend basic ideas, like watering the plants?
That’s the real issue….that and the fact that they would restrict players so much at the beggining.
As Tachenon said – first few hours of the game should be showing players what this game is about, let them have some fun, discover things for themselves. We don’t have that element in there now.

It takes less than an hour to get to level ten now and after that the experience with hearts and events is largely the same, so you can’t say the first several hours have really changed. The first hour has changed. That’s assuming that the person in question didn’t hit the bandit event and get the heart without ever dancing in front of the cows (which happened to me when I tried it).

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

But it’s literally minutes of game time and that heart can be completed without dancing in front of cows. That’s a fact. It’s limiting the game,. but things always limited games and things have always limited this game. Saying that something is limiting the game for the first hour you play is okay. Making a big deal about it….maybe not so much. It’s easy to focus on that first ten levels. It’s the easiest thing in the world to do. But it’s still a relatively small area of the game. Focusing on it does show it’s not idea, but also increases the perceived importance of it.

For a new player, those first ten minutes represent their entire time spent in the game. That time should be spent doing something engaging and fun, something that offers a bit of a preview of what’s to come, something that sets the tone for the rest of the game. Not some silly nonsense. Feeding the cows and watering the crops were actions that made sense within the context of the rural setting. It was something that people actually do. Maybe not quite as portrayed, but close enough. Dancing with cows, on the other hand, is a whole big pile of silly nonsense. Is that the devs vision for the game? Is that the impression they want to give to potential new players? Look, here’s a bunch of silly nonsense. Enjoy! (Obviously it was for whoever came up with the cow catapult and the cow combat training.)

Anet claims they want to retain new players. I say this part of NPE contradicts that claim.

Unless you can prove that a percentage of people don’t enjoy stupid silly stuff, you can’t say how many people would be turned off by it. Sure it turns you off. I’m not a big fan either, but I do have to say that there are probably people out there who do like it.

Which means their ten minutes will be enjoyable. Did you poll everyone, or are you just assuming most people will hate this?

This is hardly the only MMORPG with silly stuff in the first 10 minutes.

I don’t like it, you don’t like it, lots of other people here have expressed that they don’t like it, but hey! We can’t prove there’s not somebody out there somewhere to whom dancing with cows is the ultimate gaming experience! That’s clearly the audience anet is after, so there! Pfft!

I’ll say it again.

This aspect of NPE is silly nonsense that contradicts – belies! – the reasons stated for its implementation.

This is a ridiculous argument. You’re saying a few people really don’t like it, without any idea of how many people think it’s cute. And I guarantee you a percentage of people do. This isn’t like rocket science.

It doesn’t really belie anything. It’s a silly thing in a game with other silly things. If they take that out, they should take out the other silly stuff in the game as well.

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

But it’s literally minutes of game time and that heart can be completed without dancing in front of cows. That’s a fact. It’s limiting the game,. but things always limited games and things have always limited this game. Saying that something is limiting the game for the first hour you play is okay. Making a big deal about it….maybe not so much. It’s easy to focus on that first ten levels. It’s the easiest thing in the world to do. But it’s still a relatively small area of the game. Focusing on it does show it’s not idea, but also increases the perceived importance of it.

For a new player, those first ten minutes represent their entire time spent in the game. That time should be spent doing something engaging and fun, something that offers a bit of a preview of what’s to come, something that sets the tone for the rest of the game. Not some silly nonsense. Feeding the cows and watering the crops were actions that made sense within the context of the rural setting. It was something that people actually do. Maybe not quite as portrayed, but close enough. Dancing with cows, on the other hand, is a whole big pile of silly nonsense. Is that the devs vision for the game? Is that the impression they want to give to potential new players? Look, here’s a bunch of silly nonsense. Enjoy! (Obviously it was for whoever came up with the cow catapult and the cow combat training.)

Anet claims they want to retain new players. I say this part of NPE contradicts that claim.

Unless you can prove that a percentage of people don’t enjoy stupid silly stuff, you can’t say how many people would be turned off by it. Sure it turns you off. I’m not a big fan either, but I do have to say that there are probably people out there who do like it.

Which means their ten minutes will be enjoyable. Did you poll everyone, or are you just assuming most people will hate this?

This is hardly the only MMORPG with silly stuff in the first 10 minutes.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

There’s plenty of people who agree with you, but this thread will be dominated by the same 1 or 2 posters that all negative threads are dominated by and will ultimately turn into a thread about how great GW2 is and how there are no problems. Luckily there is still an hour or two before they wake up where people can actually discuss it rationally.

Anet claims to put out content faster than any other MMO, but I just don’t see it. We have had no new areas, no new skills, no new dungeons, no raids, no new guild missions, no new PvP modes, no new races, no new trait lines, and none of the other things you see other MMO’s producing. Yes other MMO’s only put out 1 patch every 3 months and an expansion every other year, but those patches actually contain content and exciting things, and the expansions are HUGE.

Look at GW2… we are only getting patches every 3 months and they contain small stroy instances with little replayability and maybe 3-4 hours of content. The last content patch was August 12th, with the next one coming in November… same 3 month schedule as every other MMO but without the fun stuff that expansions bring.

I wasn’t going to even respond to this thread, until this bit of misinformation. Why twist the truth to try to prove something.

We haven’t had a content patch since August 12, which I count as six weeks. But before that we got content packs every two weeks, four times in a row. That, in my boat, makes it four patchs in 8 weeks before a break, afterwhich we got a feature patch, and now we have a tournament in WvW, followed by Halloween, followed by a new story patch.

I agree that the content is coming out too slow. But saying that it has a 3 month schedule, just because there’s 3 months between two specific types of patches is just a bit unreliable. I mean, it wasn’t three months between patches before that one. Or three months before that one, or three months before that one. So we’re not getting patches every three months, are we?

By all means express your opinion, but stop twisting stuff to fit a theory so easily disproved.

To clarify you say other games get patches every 3 months and we get patches every three months too. Anyone with access to the wiki and this page can disprove what you’re saying.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Release

Yoroiookami.3485:

Vayne.8563:

I didn’t in fact ask you to ignore a year of wasted content. You expressed a concern at the speed of releases and I pointed out that the stuff you were talking about is being released faster in the new season. It’s called allaying concerns you brought up. Unless you just want to have concerns without taking into account that the landscape has changed.

Which would mean you want to complain and not hear anything at all that might allay your “fears”. The situation HAS changed. The new situation exists for a shorter period of time. It’s a bit premature to be scared.

Really? What changed? Do you see a new map, a new race, a new class? Did they do anything with the traits? They actually went backwards, making the beggining of the game extremely tedious and repetitive.
I’m afraid I have absolutely no idea about what are you talking about.

Dry Top isn’t a new map? You can’t say that they haven’t started releasing new areas faster than in the past and reportedly we’re getting more new area to explore in November.

I’m not sure why you think that’s not a change. We’ve gotten more new area in the past three months that we’ve had in the year and a half before that, and it’s just started.

If you don’t recognize a change then there’s not much else to say on the matter. We don’t have a new race or new profession yet, but at very least we do have a new zone.

Edit: And with that zone came new enemies with better AI, new stories, new craftable weapons, new events and new achievements.

Harper.4173:

Vayne.8563:

Harper.4173:

@Vayne – care to reply to my suggestion of a token system?

That means the casuals can get it – one day – if they really want it. So why wouldn’t it work?

So you’re saying doing a bunch of stuff I don’t want to do becomes more fun or easier if I can look forward to months or years of it? Is that what you’re saying?

Not fun is not fun. The solution is to make the stuff sellable. People who like the content can make gold by running the content, people who don’t get can the rewards. The only people that lose are the people who want to the difficult content just to show off how uber they are.

I don’t know how big a percentage that is, but I have a sneaking suspicion it’s not a huge percentage.

Anyway, it’s a compromise. One that’s already worked in Guild Wars 1.

No Vayne. You’re missing my point. Completely.

You dislike hard content correct? Great. They can make it obtainable through easy content but in very very small steps. Do you understand it now?
Or maybe tie it in to another reward currency.

Maybe it’ll cost 1000 laurels. You can get that without being forced to “not have fun” right?

You can make the “hard content” way the really efficient way to do it while still offering alternative ways that aren’t hard at all but more inefficient.

The sellable thing – I don’t see it working.
Rather than design content and put it in – I think they’ll just sell it to us in the gem store.

Now please – do you get my idea?

I get your idea. It would simply have to be implemented very carefully. That’s all. And btw, I do like CERTAIN hard content. My favorite dungeon in the game is the Aetherblade path of Twilight Arbor and I prefer fractals to most dungeons.

But I don’t like Triple Threat at all. And I didn’t enjoy Liadri either. So it’s not that I don’t like hard content.

I have a guild of about 150 people, 100 of whom log on at least weekly. Of those people maybe six of them beat Liadri. Most of them never even tried it. The biggest percentage of my guild has never beaten any explorable path of Arah. I’ve beaten all of them multiple times.

Just because I can stand hard content doesn’t mean that I think it’s necessarily great for the game.

Harper.4173:

@Vayne – care to reply to my suggestion of a token system?

That means the casuals can get it – one day – if they really want it. So why wouldn’t it work?

So you’re saying doing a bunch of stuff I don’t want to do becomes more fun or easier if I can look forward to months or years of it? Is that what you’re saying?

Not fun is not fun. The solution is to make the stuff sellable. People who like the content can make gold by running the content, people who don’t get can the rewards. The only people that lose are the people who want to the difficult content just to show off how uber they are.

I don’t know how big a percentage that is, but I have a sneaking suspicion it’s not a huge percentage.

Anyway, it’s a compromise. One that’s already worked in Guild Wars 1.

Yoroiookami.3485:

Vayne.8563:

snip

I just hit my second birthday on the character I made at least few months after the game release, that’s why I said nearly 3 years and so I have no idea why would you say the game had “2 year anniversary” not that long ago. I do apologize for this minor mistake though.

The changes they made for early levels might be irrelevant to you, but it’s thanks to the first few tries that people decide if they either like the game or not. It’s hard to interest a friend to play this game when they give such harsh restrictions through the first few levels.

I’m not sure why would you want me to just ignore that year of wasted content, especially that our new living story didn’t offer much neither, except for a few pretty nice-looking cutscenes. They clearly still put all of their focus on living story and new players, forgetting that vets might not have anything to do. So I’m sorry that I don’t share your optimism, Vayne. Some people simply won’t wait 2 years for a real piece of content.
I do hope that you’re right though, because I simply won’t take waiting another 2 years for a new map. (And by new map, I map one that doesn’t appear once a year for 2 weeks or so).

Looka.6078:

I subscribe to the above mentioned concerns !

And once again, since a certain nobody on this forum seem to have an answer for everything and an already dangerous, pathological urge to kiss buttocks, I’ll present them in a shorter/easier way:

Is GW2 some sick reincarnation of “Young & Restless” ?!

Are we doomed to log in and stare at the screen for the next 30-40 years, waiting for the world map to become available and filled with playable content ?

Are we supposed to pass this game to our kids, as a family legacy ?

I can only imagine something like
“-Listen, son, I have something very important to tell you… You know, the money I have put aside and the house and all… You will get all of them, of course, but only when you have successfully covered the entire world map in the game that my father started to play way back in the stone age. You know I tried to continue his quest, my son. I tried my best, God knows I tried, your mother knows I tried, and I can only hope that ArenaNet knows as well, God bless their souls. But I’m old now, my sight grew dim and my hands are not able to hold the mouse anymore … Now promise you’ll continue my work and let me die in peace…”

That’s actually pretty hilarious…and sad. XD

Yargesh.4965:

Why are people so upset about the cows? Just don’t get the horror of it all. As for storytelling games now remind me of penny dteadfuls, all games. You put out content to be mass consumed, take it for what it is.

Because COWS ARE AWESOME. How can you not agree that the idea of feeding cows is genius?
Seriously though, I’m a bit worried, because anet has this amazing quest system with basically lack of limitations. It’s worrying that they would go back, use less of it simply because people can’t connect the dots. I’m afraid that they might ‘dumb down’ the game for everyone in the future.

I didn’t in fact ask you to ignore a year of wasted content. You expressed a concern at the speed of releases and I pointed out that the stuff you were talking about is being released faster in the new season. It’s called allaying concerns you brought up. Unless you just want to have concerns without taking into account that the landscape has changed.

Which would mean you want to complain and not hear anything at all that might allay your “fears”. The situation HAS changed. The new situation exists for a shorter period of time. It’s a bit premature to be scared.

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

It’s not unfair that if you get into an NBA ring to play a championship, you don’t get a ring if you don’t win one. But presumably you enter the NBA playoff knowing that’s the case.

People play this game for all sorts of reasons. People play professional basketball to win. I don’t really see the comparison.

It would be more like if we were having a casual game of basketball, throwing the ball around with a couple of friends and suddenly someone says, okay, person who scores the most points gets $1000. It changes the game. Whether you need the thousand bucks or not, it changes it.

Of course you have to balance and control what you reward. But if you rewarded 1000 dollars for winning the game, you would not have changed it in a bad way.

This is what i mean by good game design. Placing reward in the proper places, in the proper way, can enhance game play.
The other factor is that these things of course should be opt in things. Every person shouldnt have to always play for money. But the fact that 3 on 3 tournaments/prizes/etc, and the NBA exists does not diminish the sport of basketball. Its an option and a possibility, IF you want to work harder and compete, you can get a greater reward.

The problem is you are saying playing basketball, and walking around a basketball court with a ball in your hand doing whatever you want should give the same rewards. If that was a game you made up, it would be a poorly designed game.

In fact is it is worse than that, to continue the analogy, some random acts in the basketball game give you points while other dont.
imagine if;
for dribbling for over 2 minutes, you get 10 extra points
for scoring while an opponent defends you get 1 point
you can only score up to 5 points from baskets every 10 minutes
passing the ball reduces your next points earned by -1 points
paying vayne gives you 1 point per 100 dollars.

what i am getting at, is it really important to appropriately reward actions in games, otherwise you create degenerative gameplay. Right now the game gives the most points for things which dont really enhance the game. It would in fact be better for the game, for say a hard dynamic event chain to reward more than an easy one. By the exact same ideaology, a hard dungeon rewarding more than an easy one would be a better design.

yes people play the game for many different reasons, and you should reward them differently, as well as reward them the better they are at it. Then money will actually be a method for exchanging value, but thats a whole different topic.

I’m saying that if a game is designed for casual people, than giving those casual people no path to specific rewards is not going to work and you will lose players, and I don’t care if it’s fair or not. Games are entertainment as well as competition. This game, PvE particularly, wasn’t designed to be competitive. It was designed to be cooperative.

But you know, people keep bringing up Guild Wars 1 on these forums. There were precious few rewards you couldn’t buy in Guild Wars 1. That included the rewards from any of the end game areas, including DOA. A casual player could buy a tormented weapon. Or an Armbrace of truth.

And you could buy all the ectos and obby shards you need for armor. You could even buy a run to get to the person who makes the armor (which wasn’t actually that hard anyway).

You could buy frog scepters, celestial compasses, voltaic spears, bonecage scythes, rare minipets. There were very few minipets you couldn’t buy and sell in the game.

So I’m not sure what the problem is with making rewards buyable.

Harper.4173:

Vayne.8563:

It doesn’t really matter if you need a minipet to play the game. You don’t need a hotdog to enjoy a ball game but I enjoy ball games more when I buy a hot dog. It’s part of my experience.
People keeping using the word need. It’s not about need. It’s about fun. So if you happen to be a minipet collector and that is your end game, it is for some, you’ll need that mini to complete your collection.
If I see a bunch of stuff I want and can never get, why should I keep playing the game? That’s how a lot of people DO see these games (even if I don’t personally).

Because the “never” in never get is not really never. You have to want it bad enough and you’ll get it.

If you’re a mini collector and minis are your end-game – then you’ll work and get your mini. Simple.

Work for something = have it.
Don’t work for something = don’t have it.

And personally I don’t really remember GW2 being advertised as " everyone will have access to all the skins and all the rewards regardless of how good or bad they’re doing in game".

I remember them saying people will have the best statistical gear – never that everyone should or could have access to all the “fluff” prestige items.

You sure you did your research right on GW2?

Or you leave the game and people will. You may not care how many people are driven from the game, but I’m sure Anet probably does.

I have no desire to play content I don’t find fun for a reward. If there’s too much of it, too many things I can’t get, I’ll leave the game…because I play games to have fun. The stuff isn’t fun. It’s nice to have but it’s not fun.

But if I can’t have fun in the pursuit of stuff…why even bother playing?

Harper.4173:

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

Harper.4173:

Also – speaking of resenting the game – I resent the game because players who are less skilled can get just about everything I can in game with almost no effort put in their build, their play style or anything else.

Umm… It is a game, it is not a competition. In my PvP experience I find it entertaining to figure out a good build to fight the easy to play builds like Ham/bow or MM’s
I usually don’t brag but I would say that my skill usually overcomes those with no skill but easy to win builds. And talking PvE then, sure I don’t like the “Zerk is the only thing” stuff, so I don’t play with people with that mindset and I play how I like. I don’t care if someone can solo Arah but I can’t. What I don’t like is that needed content is locked behind too hard content for me, luckely it is not like that in GW2 but I don’t want that iether.

So what I say is that I don’t mind hard content but it shouldn’t reward you with something you can’t get without playing hard content but it should indeed be rewarded better than easy or normal content. Like more loot, more champion loot, higher special drop rate, and more tokens and so on.

But you already have that in game. And it’s not with skin or unique rewards- but with things that give vertical progression.

Take high-level fractals – there’s a higher chance to get ascended armor drops there than anywhere else in the game.

Same with Teq. These are harder than average parts of the game with “better rewards” not just rarer. Not just skins. Better.

Yet I don’t see anyone complaining.

The moment people ask for skins that are harder to get – people go mad.

You can craft ascended armor and weapons without ever doing a fractal or tequatl. In fact, it’s preferable to craft that stuff, because you can’t control what stats drop. Sort of a red herring if you ask me.

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

Harper.4173:

Vayne.8563:

DaShi.1368:

There’s plenty of content for your style of play, Vayne. However, not everyone has the same style of play. They should be allowed to ask for content that they want. Yes, the new content may affect those who don’t want it, but the content for your style of play affects those who don’t want it too.

What I’m saying is the rewards may well affect my style of play, or how I play the game. If there’s enough rewards that I can’t get in a game, I’ll eventually feel that game isn’t for me. Surely I’m not alone in that, and surely pointing that out isn’t telling Anet not to make harder content. I’m just asking them to be careful with how rewards are offered.

I’m pretty sure TA Aetherblade path has proved that hard content itself is not enough. It has to have better rewards that aren’t RNG. And that becomes an issue for the game itself, if enough of those things are around that the majority of players can’t get or will feel forced to try to get.

Imagine if they hid a really cool awesome mini quaggan for some reason, in TA Aetherblade path.

At the very least, those rewards from that harder content should be sellable, which means that it won’t be the badge that many hard core players want their characters to have (like Fractal skins are).

If you could please – explain to me why other people having stuff you can’t get makes you want to quit the game instead of motivating you to work towards getting that stuff if you want it so much.

I’m not sure what the question is here. Let’s take a baby quaggan minipet. A special one with a purple parasol. Maybe there’s new challenging content and that’s the reward. A whole lot of people are going to want that reward that maybe don’t enjoy or even can never do that content.

Nor is one reward the problem. One reward doesn’t affect much of anyone. Most people in this game will never have a Liadri mini, or a clockheart mini and that’s okay. Because it’s relatively rare.

But now you have the issue of people who want the clockheart mini, but they maybe really dont’ like to group period. It ruins their game. They have to run that dungeon a number of times to get all those achievements. It’s a lot of work, but they really want it.

The problem is, if I really want something but don’t enjoy that content, I’m conflicted. Do I do something I don’t enjoy for hours on end to get something I really want? Okay not this time. What if it was more common. What if more and more of the stuff I wanted was locked behind stuff I don’t enjoy.

You’re saying get better. I don’t need to get better. I’m quite fine as I am. I can beat any dungeon in the game, but I don’t enjoy running dungeons. Particularly not most of these dungeons.

You use the word motivating me to “work” towards those rewards. I didn’t work towards Liadri, because it wasn’t fun for me. Period. Getting to her was okay. Getting some of the other achievements, no so okay. I did it for the meta, because I wanted to get the meta. I did NOT enjoy the content.

So you’re saying what’s wrong with offering me rewards I want and content I don’t enjoy?

I don’t even understand what you’re not understanding.

is it unfair that to get an NBA ring, you have to win an NBA championship? Is it unfair that pulitzers are given only to top writers? Unfair that only police officers can drive police cars?

I see how everything being only obtainable by things you dont like would suck, but no one is saying that. I definately believe this is not a black and white thing, it has to be balanced. They shouldnt put all new gear behind super hard content. But they should be ok putting SOME non essential gears in specific places.

anyhow, im not married to having super uniques for show off purposes, my main beef with selling everything, is the game is already too driven by grinding gold. Somethings should not be about how much gold per hour you can grind.

however having the items salable isnt that bad.

It’s not unfair that if you get into an NBA ring to play a championship, you don’t get a ring if you don’t win one. But presumably you enter the NBA playoff knowing that’s the case.

People play this game for all sorts of reasons. People play professional basketball to win. I don’t really see the comparison.

It would be more like if we were having a casual game of basketball, throwing the ball around with a couple of friends and suddenly someone says, okay, person who scores the most points gets $1000. It changes the game. Whether you need the thousand bucks or not, it changes it.

Harper.4173:

Vayne.8563:

If you could please – explain to me why other people having stuff you can’t get makes you want to quit the game instead of motivating you to work towards getting that stuff if you want it so much.

I’m not sure what the question is here. Let’s take a baby quaggan minipet. A special one with a purple parasol. Maybe there’s new challenging content and that’s the reward. A whole lot of people are going to want that reward that maybe don’t enjoy or even can never do that content.

Nor is one reward the problem. One reward doesn’t affect much of anyone. Most people in this game will never have a Liadri mini, or a clockheart mini and that’s okay. Because it’s relatively rare.

But now you have the issue of people who want the clockheart mini, but they maybe really dont’ like to group period. It ruins their game. They have to run that dungeon a number of times to get all those achievements. It’s a lot of work, but they really want it.

The problem is, if I really want something but don’t enjoy that content, I’m conflicted. Do I do something I don’t enjoy for hours on end to get something I really want? Okay not this time. What if it was more common. What if more and more of the stuff I wanted was locked behind stuff I don’t enjoy.

You’re saying get better. I don’t need to get better. I’m quite fine as I am. I can beat any dungeon in the game, but I don’t enjoy running dungeons. Particularly not most of these dungeons.

You use the word motivating me to “work” towards those rewards. I didn’t work towards Liadri, because it wasn’t fun for me. Period. Getting to her was okay. Getting some of the other achievements, no so okay. I did it for the meta, because I wanted to get the meta. I did NOT enjoy the content.

So you’re saying what’s wrong with offering me rewards I want and content I don’t enjoy?

I don’t even understand what you’re not understanding.

I’m not understanding why you feel “pressured”.

Maybe it’s because we’re very different individuals but where I grew up it went like this:

If you want something and it’s hard to get you’ll have to work for it or you won’t have it.

I don’t understand why you feel pressured because you want it but still don’t accept that if you do want it you have to do whatever it takes to get it. Maybe it’s content you don’t like. So what?

I don’t see why everything should be handed out through means that you do like.
Some of the content in the game is given as rewards for stuff I don’t like but I don’t complain about it because it’s simple :

If I want it bad enough the fact that I don’t enjoy the content I have to do to get it won’t matter.
If I don’t – I won’t get it.

Also I can understand the gear grind people – in the days of WoW you needed to grind to even consider yourself viable.
I get what EdgarMTanaka is saying – he needed to raid to be viable in PvP. He needed to – in order to play the game he had to have that gear or he’d get stomped. Or not even invited.

Do you need a mini to play the game? Do you need that skin in order to complete whatever it is you need to complete?

That’s the difference you’re not seeing.

@Ohoni

And plus if “hard” content has really good rewards then people will just famr them and become way more wealthy than other players

News flash – this is a thing in the game already. People playing the TP are insanely rich. I’m talking tens of thousands of gold. And they’re not even navigating content – just buy orders.

People are already racking up tons of rewards mashing their #1 key farming Coil in Frostgorge.

Also – speaking of resenting the game – I resent the game because players who are less skilled can get just about everything I can in game with almost no effort put in their build, their play style or anything else.

Also – Why can’t you run one fractal at a time exactly?
I seem to recall each one has a chest at the end – so what’s the problem here?

[/quote]

It doesn’t really matter if you need a minipet to play the game. You don’t need a hotdog to enjoy a ball game but I enjoy ball games more when I buy a hot dog. It’s part of my experience.

People keeping using the word need. It’s not about need. It’s about fun. So if you happen to be a minipet collector and that is your end game, it is for some, you’ll need that mini to complete your collection.

If I see a bunch of stuff I want and can never get, why should I keep playing the game? That’s how a lot of people DO see these games (even if I don’t personally).

If you remove champ bags, you have to up the rewards for finishing the events. Rewards are rewards. If farmers are getting rewarded for finishing events and people want to finish events, everyone goes home a winner.

The disconnect exists because farming champions is more profitable than finishing the event. Just make finishing the events more profitable than farming bags.

Harper.4173:

First of all – you mention challenging content in the form of puzzles, strategies, builds and other “mental challenges” – those things can’t really be considered challenges anymore.

Why?

Because the MMO genre ( and games in general) now have content creators that earn a living ( or at least make a good hobby ) out of solving things for you and posting them online.

Need the new warrior dps build ? Nike from DnT has you covered ( massive props to him).
Need to do the new backpiece scavanger hunt or the new collections? Dulfy has a guide ( massive props to her as well).

I’m not saying this is bad. I’m not saying these people are ruining the game – I thank them for their work and respect the time and dedication they put in. I use their guides and it makes my life easier.

But you asked and there’s your answer – because today you can just look it up online – youtube, sites, you name it – and the answer will be within reach in 2-3 minutes.

So you have to add “reflex challenge” because mental challenge isn’t even a factor anymore.
First person to beat your encounter/puzzle will just youtube it and that’s it. The whole challenge is gone.

Nobody is going to do puzzles or mental challenges anymore.
The generation of gamers has changed too. You grew up on old platformers ( Tomb Riader) and other challenge and puzzle filled games.

Today’s players grew up on COD and other instant action instant gratification games.
It’s about the new, the fast, the pew pew pew. You want to be in the action – all the time. There’s no time to waste thinking about stuff. It’s all about acting now. Action. That’s what defines this gamer generation.

In other threads you’d point out that catering to a minority of the player base is wasted effort on Anet’s part. Well – this sort of challenge in GW2 ( while I would like and enjoy it) would fit nicely into that category.

Work on a puzzle, put it in, and then everyone beats it with youtube on day 1.

I don’t know if nobody is going to do it, but I did admit only a small percentage of the population will not google the answer.

That said, people keep telling me that somehow I’m wrong for not wanting harder content I have less interest in. I think I’m a minority which is why I don’t expect to see this kind of content, as I expect they’re a minority to won’t see as much of the content they want to see.

But if challenging content is made, since it’s being made for the minority anyway, this is the KIND of challenge I’m looking for.

And again, there are ways to make puzzles where you can’t just write or google a solution. It would be interesting to see how that would work if they ever did include something like that in the game.

Maybe all those people who want hard content would be dissatisfied because it wasn’t the type of hard content they had in mind.

Harper.4173:

Vayne.8563:

DaShi.1368:

There’s plenty of content for your style of play, Vayne. However, not everyone has the same style of play. They should be allowed to ask for content that they want. Yes, the new content may affect those who don’t want it, but the content for your style of play affects those who don’t want it too.

What I’m saying is the rewards may well affect my style of play, or how I play the game. If there’s enough rewards that I can’t get in a game, I’ll eventually feel that game isn’t for me. Surely I’m not alone in that, and surely pointing that out isn’t telling Anet not to make harder content. I’m just asking them to be careful with how rewards are offered.

I’m pretty sure TA Aetherblade path has proved that hard content itself is not enough. It has to have better rewards that aren’t RNG. And that becomes an issue for the game itself, if enough of those things are around that the majority of players can’t get or will feel forced to try to get.

Imagine if they hid a really cool awesome mini quaggan for some reason, in TA Aetherblade path.

At the very least, those rewards from that harder content should be sellable, which means that it won’t be the badge that many hard core players want their characters to have (like Fractal skins are).

If you could please – explain to me why other people having stuff you can’t get makes you want to quit the game instead of motivating you to work towards getting that stuff if you want it so much.

I’m not sure what the question is here. Let’s take a baby quaggan minipet. A special one with a purple parasol. Maybe there’s new challenging content and that’s the reward. A whole lot of people are going to want that reward that maybe don’t enjoy or even can never do that content.

Nor is one reward the problem. One reward doesn’t affect much of anyone. Most people in this game will never have a Liadri mini, or a clockheart mini and that’s okay. Because it’s relatively rare.

But now you have the issue of people who want the clockheart mini, but they maybe really dont’ like to group period. It ruins their game. They have to run that dungeon a number of times to get all those achievements. It’s a lot of work, but they really want it.

The problem is, if I really want something but don’t enjoy that content, I’m conflicted. Do I do something I don’t enjoy for hours on end to get something I really want? Okay not this time. What if it was more common. What if more and more of the stuff I wanted was locked behind stuff I don’t enjoy.

You’re saying get better. I don’t need to get better. I’m quite fine as I am. I can beat any dungeon in the game, but I don’t enjoy running dungeons. Particularly not most of these dungeons.

You use the word motivating me to “work” towards those rewards. I didn’t work towards Liadri, because it wasn’t fun for me. Period. Getting to her was okay. Getting some of the other achievements, no so okay. I did it for the meta, because I wanted to get the meta. I did NOT enjoy the content.

So you’re saying what’s wrong with offering me rewards I want and content I don’t enjoy?

I don’t even understand what you’re not understanding.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Vayne.8563:

The changes to level 1-10 would be irrelevant for most players. If that’s the kind of thing that makes you very very sad, I’m not sure what to tell you. I feel this is an over reaction.

I would normally agree with this but…
1) It’s limiting the game. Whether or not it’s affecting me isn’t important.
2) Dancing in front of cows, rather than feeding them is so astronomical stupid that I simply can’t get over that.

But it’s literally minutes of game time and that heart can be completed without dancing in front of cows. That’s a fact. It’s limiting the game,. but things always limited games and things have always limited this game. Saying that something is limiting the game for the first hour you play is okay. Making a big deal about it….maybe not so much. It’s easy to focus on that first ten levels. It’s the easiest thing in the world to do. But it’s still a relatively small area of the game. Focusing on it does show it’s not idea, but also increases the perceived importance of it.

One thing they teach you in writing class is that the more time you spend on a character, the more important readers will expect the characters to be.

Me, I think the trait thing is far more important and until that’s fixed, I don’t really care about the cows, stupid or not stupid. For the record, I agree they’re stupid. They’re not stupid enough to take over so much of the forums.

In fact, what they are is a constantly repeated example of a bigger problem, but most people don’t mention the bigger problem.

If Anet just fixes the cows and does nothing else, most people will be disappointed.

It’s different for a lot of people in single player games, because they’re not “competing” with each other on any real level.

There’s always a feeling if you get some kind of reward like a unique mini, that other people have it and you don’t, but you know they probably looked it up. It devalues the value of solving stuff…for a lot of people anyway.

It’s like when you could suddenly get the suvivor title in Guild Wars 1 by doing Kilroy Stonekin’s dungeon. You could get it in a weekend with relatively little chance of failure. You could never know when someone was wearing that title, how they got it.

I made it to indomitable survivor without doing it once, just by vanquishing.

I still haven’t found all the coins or diving goggles, and I haven’t gone to Dulfy to do so. Because those quests aren’t limited in time, I don’t feel I need to.

Rift, in spite of the many things I didn’t like about the game, had puzzles in some zones. The closest thing I can compare it to in Guild Wars 2 is the underwater organ puzzle, which I really enjoyed, trying to figure out how to get to the treasure by repeating the tune sung by a nearby quaggan.

However the other pipe organ puzzle in Fields of Ruins, I didn’t like because I didn’t see any clues or ways to figure out what to play.

I have four legendaries, I’ve gotten one precursor drop (which I used, I didn’t sell). You can make legendaries without gambling away money at the mystic forge. Had you spent money on the precusor a year ago, instead of throwing 850 gold away in the forge, you’d already have your legendary. It was a bad decision.

There’s been no word on the scavenger hunt, but many people believe the Mawdrey quest was a test run of the type of thing it will be.

First of all, I’m not sure how you can say you’ve been playing for about three years when the game just hit it’s two year anniversary. Even the first beta wouldn’t make it that much and the beta weekends are a few weekends here and there.

The changes to level 1-10 would be irrelevant for most players. If that’s the kind of thing that makes you very very sad, I’m not sure what to tell you. I feel this is an over reaction.

I’ve not many anyone who thinks the new trait system is fun or good as it is, I’d have to agree with that.

But the one thing you’re not taking into account was the failed experiment that was Season 1 of the Living Story. While the game has undoubtedly been out for two years, the Living Story Season 1 took effort and time to create, but it didn’t further the game in the way that people wanted it too. All that new stuff is not in the game, but also, stuff like classes and races and maps took a back seat.

The new living story is only a three months old now, we have a new zone with more promised next month. So your calculations on timing are a bit off. If you start by looking at the Living Story now, as compared to the Living Story a year ago,. you’ll see were’re getting newer areas to explore rather more often.

And Anet has said straight out they didn’t want to add a lot of new zones until the megaserver was in place, because they didn’t want old zones to get deserted. So until April 15, they really didn’t want to work on or add new zones.

You’re probably worrying too much about how much content is actually coming and the form it will take. I agree we do need a new profession/race and more maps.

I simply believe you’ll start seeing that stuff coming. In fact, we already have with the maps.

DaShi.1368:

There’s plenty of content for your style of play, Vayne. However, not everyone has the same style of play. They should be allowed to ask for content that they want. Yes, the new content may affect those who don’t want it, but the content for your style of play affects those who don’t want it too.

What I’m saying is the rewards may well affect my style of play, or how I play the game. If there’s enough rewards that I can’t get in a game, I’ll eventually feel that game isn’t for me. Surely I’m not alone in that, and surely pointing that out isn’t telling Anet not to make harder content. I’m just asking them to be careful with how rewards are offered.

I’m pretty sure TA Aetherblade path has proved that hard content itself is not enough. It has to have better rewards that aren’t RNG. And that becomes an issue for the game itself, if enough of those things are around that the majority of players can’t get or will feel forced to try to get.

Imagine if they hid a really cool awesome mini quaggan for some reason, in TA Aetherblade path.

At the very least, those rewards from that harder content should be sellable, which means that it won’t be the badge that many hard core players want their characters to have (like Fractal skins are).

Mods: Please don’t merge this with a topic about putting hard content into the game or whether people want it or not, this is really a separate issue, that involves a problem with hard content in general, not specifically the hard content being or not being added to the game).

I’ve been thinking a lot about hard content, and I think I know where some of the disconnect is between me and other players. It’s not that I don’t want challenging content, so much as what challenging content has come to mean, and to some degree, why it has come to mean that.

I used to play RPGs back in the day and those games were quite challenging. But they weren’t challenging in the platforming sense and they weren’t challenging in the dodge timing sense, or the DPS check perfect rotation sense. That isn’t what I think of as challenging content, even though it challenges some people.

There used to be mental challenges in games. Things you could actually solve, and puzzle out, and work towards that didn’t require you to be aggressively spamming your keys, and that wouldn’t have mattered if you have a bit of lag. Face it a good percentage of the playerbase does get some kind of lag or latency making certain things in the game harder to do. Not impossible, but it’s certainly more challenging to do liadri with latency/lag than without it.

But that’s one type of challenging content. In my opinion the reason why the other type of challenging content is no longer offered by games is because of wikis and sites like Dulfy. They’re instantly passed for anyone who wants to look at them. The attention span people have has certainly gone down. More games to consume, easier to access means less time spent not only on a single game for many people but a single puzzle in a single game. Early games had puzzles you have to solve. Anyone who knows the evolution of the Tomb Raider series will remember how hard the puzzles were in the beginning and how it’s changed in later games.

I do want some challenging content. But I don’t want them in the form of an arcade game. I want something I can bend my mind against and beat mentally, like RPGs used to have. The closest thing we have in this game is figuring out how to craft Mawdrey or finding coins in Dry Top. But the coins in Drytop thing, there aren’t really clues, it’s just wandering around with your ctrl key down. Not much to figure out.

The problem is, a huge percentage of the population would end up going to the wiki to get the answers to any puzzle and it would take no time at all, and so for most players, the time to complete it would be like nothing and then they’d complain there’s no new content. But that’s the kind of challenging content I’d want to see. Stuff like the guild puzzles or better, even like the Mad King quest with the riddles where we had to figure out where to go. That was more fun for me than Liadri will ever be. I didn’t enjoy the Queen’s Gauntlet. I like different kinds of challenges.

Anyway just some thoughts about why saying I want challenging content isn’t enough. Because the stuff some people think of as challenging content others think of as either not challenging, or a waste of developer time.

NYG.2568:

Vayne.8563:

NYG.2568:

Vayne.8563:

CrashTestAuto.9108:

The traits thread, SAB threads, megaserver threads and hobosacks thread (off the top of my head) are in need of attention.

That said, Gaile is trying to keep us informed as well as Chris.

SAB threads are what exactly? Anet said right now it’s not coming back, during this season of the living story. That’s all they’re going to say. There’s no need for more communication on this. If people don’t want to accept it, there’s nothing anyone can do. That’s the decision.

Megaservers are being worked on, we’ve even seen some changes recently to guild missions and they said they’re working on stuff for larger guilds. The mega server isn’t being repealed. It’s not happening. What is there to say?

Traits and hobosacks are legitimate ongoing issues. I can almost guarantee they’re working on traits. I guess they could come in every few days and say we’re still working on it, but programming takes time.

Hobosacks, no idea if they’re working on it or not. I suspect it’s low priority, though.

I don’t know why people think that we need someone to constantly come into threads saying we know about this and we’re looking into it. Things in big companies don’t get changed over night and programming takes time.

Anet should just hire this ^^^^ guy. He seems to think he has all the answers.

I don’t suspect I have all the answers or even most of them. But I’ll certainly call people out who claim to have them and probably don’t.

Yet your on every thread attacking in my opinion. Other peoples comments,thoughts,critiques,concerns,or what have you. You are not an Anet Dev stop trying to do there job and let others have there say. Let Anet do there job and answer or reply.
I’ve seen you post its a small percentage of people on these forums about what they like or complain about, and others simply play and enjoy the game. So I ask how much time are you playing and enjoying the game. From what I see very little as you take it upon yourself to read and “answer” most everything.

Some of us can play and read the forums at the same time. Two monitors is a wondrous thing. I wonder if anyone has ever bothered to look at how many negative comments I don’t address at all, even once. It’s not like I don’t see them. I don’t find them misleading or objectionable.

I promise I didn’t get 20,000 achievement point sitting here on the forums. As far as I know there’s no achievement for infractions.

Edit: Sorry mods I won’t comment on these threads now. I didn’t see the dev post until after I posted this reply. Maybe we all just need a group hug. lol

MassIneffective.2364:

Doggie.3184:

I haven’t even logged on in weeks now when I used to always play. There’s honestly nothing left to do anymore at this point. I could run around wvw or something; repeating the same thing I been doing 1000 more times but I’ve used every combat style and build possible at this point, even the broken ones, and feel bored of the same old mechanics. Still wondering when the whole “adding new weapons to every class” and the eventual “all weapons for all classes” thing is going to happen.

Anet never talks about future plans due to company policy, which is unfortunate, but at the same time it makes me feel like there isn’t really any in development.

Therein lies the problem. GW1’s skill system allowed for an infinite degree of expansion since abilities were tied to attributes (some skills required melee/dagger/bow/other specific weapon, but that was a comparatively small number to the current state of GW2). Since 80% of your abilities are currently tied to your weapon choice, expansion is severely limited to what weapons they choose to add…which is a very, VERY small number by comparison when you consider that there are only so many weapon types you can add before they start to overlap.

Absolutely intentional on the part of the devs. Do you know why Guild Wars 1 remained a niche game, good as it was, for pretty much it’s entire existence?

Because it required people to think to play it. Those who are more hard core about how they play games think in terms of going to a site and getting builds. But I’m sure a huge percentage of players tried Guild Wars 1 and walked away because they couldn’t figure out what to do with builds at all. They didn’t know or understand how to play the game.

Guild Wars 1 suited people like me, who love to think and play with skill sets and try to figure out how to build a better mouse trap, but I can assure you, I’m not any kind of majority. For players like me, the game worked. It even worked for my friends who were more casual, because I could always give them the builds I worked out.

But for a lot of people, that game was completely overwhelming. Hell there were people who played and were overwhelmed by Guild Wars 2, so just imagine how much magnified that problem was in Guild Wars 1?

The idea of tying skills to weapons, combined with forcing everyone to take a healing skill, means everyone basically has at least a usable build. That’s why the open world is so easy. To not chase people off who just want to run around and kill stuff and feel like they’re doing something relatively challenging. And for some people, parts of the open world are challenging.

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

I don’t the think the personal story was as well received as Anet wanted it to be. We all know what people thought of Trahearne and the Zhaitan fight. We’ve all seen people talk it down. While it did have people who liked it, many many people disliked it. The open world has always been the strength of this game.

I think Anet really wanted to shift the focus to the world and away from the story.

See personal story isnt great, but its actually generally better in the first 20 levels, (depending on your race/choices) But it does provide a backdrop or narrative.

The open world on the otherhand isnt that strong early, its ok, but its not stirring. Also the open world actually loses more with the arrow. Its good for completion, but its bad for making you feel like the game is free and open.

What they really needed to have, was an open world means of leading newbs. Lets think of some newbie like dynamic event chains that tell a story, The truth is the dynamic event system is one of the main strengths, and a well crafted chain in the beginning could be a lot more satisfying than the starter story, and hold them over till level 10.

They should also kind of make it clear when your next personal story missions will unlock.

point is, if they want to keep people, a more riveting starter experience will probably go further than a more easy one, imo.

I still think it’s not a huge deal that the story starts 1 hour or so into the game. The actual leveling and constant or almost contest addition of information from the level windows is what will keep people going to then. And I think we’ll see what percentage of people get engaged in MMOs due to story very shortly.

Again, to me it would have been the beauty of the world itself that kept me playing for an hour.

Azathor.2845:

Vayne.8563:

Maybe you don’t realize how many people bought this game specifically to get away, not just from raiding, but the raiding mentality.

Surely you’ve seen what happens on these forums when someone brings up DPS meters, or gear scores. It’s a different game, made for a different audience.

Why can’t we have just one?

I understand what you’re saying Vayne. Just because a game would have some harder content for ‘elite’ players if you will, doesn’t mean a bunch of jerks are going to invade the game as it is today. ‘Elite’ type players are already here anyways.

I’d like to see Anet release a 6-10 man raid every 4-6 months or so. That would shut the people up who are wanting new content and new dungeons plus it would give another avenue for people to play. Even casuals could play them too. Have a regular mode dungeon or raid and a heroic style one. Or story and exploration or whatever they want to call them.

If they did this I don’t see how it could possibly affect the more casual gamers. Most, if not all other games have casual and hardcore types existing side by side, why not this game too.

Besides the hardcore gamers are the ones who make sure the trade post is full of items. It sure isn’t the guy who plays an hour a night.

There are plenty of “casual” players who play 20-30 hours a week. Casual isn’t an indication of time spent, not to me anyway. It’s a commentary on your approach to the game. I consider myself a casual player, but I have 20,000 achievement points. I’m always in game. And I’m not casual about the game itself, but I play casually. I don’t min/max. I don’t worry about being efficient. I don’t care if content is particularly challenging (though I can do challenging content).

It’s my approach to the game that’s casual…and we do put stuff in the market place.

MassIneffective.2364:

Galphar.3901:

In order to really be called an MMO you need the Massive part

waves at you from Spamadan district 99

In all honesty, I can see where you’re coming from. It never felt disconnected to me, though. Party size was kind of annoying at various points in the game, but it never really served to distract from the immersive elements of gameplay that GW2 seems to lack more often than I’d like. The two ends of the spectrum are hardcapped party sizes like in the original and the 80-man zergfests that world bosses have become. They need to balance it somehow. Right now, GW2 has both extremes but doesn’t really apply them meaningfully or attempt to incorporate them into a single, universal party system that can span both dungeons and large-scale open world content.

Mini-rant: Dungeons also need to be more relevant to the story, akin to the missions in the original, IMO. The paths should be a choice that determines how your presence affects the outcome of an important conflict, rather than “you can choose one of three NPC guilds that determine what transmog set you can farm and what NPCs show up in your personal story”. I’m getting away from myself here…story mode was a big letdown, but meh. It shouldn’t have been a purely solo gameplay element, and I’ll leave it at that.

GW1 never felt disjointed or disconnected because of the instancing and party system. It was immersive enough that those elements didn’t degrade the experience. GW2 seems disjointed and disconnected because instances are either idiotically simple story missions or ridiculously boring content that’s been there since release (or soon after in the case of fractals) and hasn’t evolved in any way since then. Dynamic events are sometimes interesting, and progressive events are a nice touch, but they’re not challenging in any way unless you’re the only person in the zone (which is never the case, they’re always zergfests).

Anet has said quite clearly that Guild Wars 1 was not an MMORPG, because even if you wanted to count Spamadan, you couldn’t actually play there, which is why it was a lobby. You couldn’t fight. You couldn’t use skills.

You got your party together to play…in what some would call a lobby. Sure you could sell there, or even participate in Mad King Says.

But if Anet tells us it’s not an MMO, why should we believe you?

MMOs are about a persistent world. It’s a world where things happen even if a player isn’t there. Guild Wars 1 didn’t have a persistent world, the entire game was instanced, except for cities which were lobbies.

In other words, once you got your party together to play, and entered the game world itself, you had zero chance of running into anyone who wasn’t already in your party.

I don’t the think the personal story was as well received as Anet wanted it to be. We all know what people thought of Trahearne and the Zhaitan fight. We’ve all seen people talk it down. While it did have people who liked it, many many people disliked it. The open world has always been the strength of this game.

I think Anet really wanted to shift the focus to the world and away from the story.

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

But the early hearts being changed…as in the first 1-10 area?

I just don’t see this as something to rebel against. People talk about the “chess” game in metrica being taken out, even though it was ridiculously easy to win at and maybe I’ve spent 10 minutes out of all my time in game doing it.

You never get a second chance to make a good first impression.

I love platitudes that people say but can’t be proven. I mean aside from being factually true, what it’s implying is anything but.

The first Star Trek Pilot was, after all, rejected. But a second was was made.

I think anyone that stops playing a game because they don’t like dancing with cows is someone I wouldn’t care to play with anyway.

I’d say anyone who doesn’t get up to level 20 before they judged an MMO, probably isn’t suited to MMORPGs.

You realize the people who quit before 20 is the people for whom npe was made?

They essentially are trying to target the first impression first hour of play crowf

Yes. The old system with all that cool stuff didn’t keep them. But the NPE wasn’t just about dumbing things down. It was also about pacing, reward and direction. It does feel more rewarding to me, and that stupid arrow definitely provides direction.

You seem to think it was entertaining enough before, but that didn’t hold those people. I don’t think those people mostly left because it wasn’t entertaining enough. Anet at least believes that tests show that they left because of a combination of factors including the ones I listed above.

NYG.2568:

Vayne.8563:

CrashTestAuto.9108:

The traits thread, SAB threads, megaserver threads and hobosacks thread (off the top of my head) are in need of attention.

That said, Gaile is trying to keep us informed as well as Chris.

SAB threads are what exactly? Anet said right now it’s not coming back, during this season of the living story. That’s all they’re going to say. There’s no need for more communication on this. If people don’t want to accept it, there’s nothing anyone can do. That’s the decision.

Megaservers are being worked on, we’ve even seen some changes recently to guild missions and they said they’re working on stuff for larger guilds. The mega server isn’t being repealed. It’s not happening. What is there to say?

Traits and hobosacks are legitimate ongoing issues. I can almost guarantee they’re working on traits. I guess they could come in every few days and say we’re still working on it, but programming takes time.

Hobosacks, no idea if they’re working on it or not. I suspect it’s low priority, though.

I don’t know why people think that we need someone to constantly come into threads saying we know about this and we’re looking into it. Things in big companies don’t get changed over night and programming takes time.

Anet should just hire this ^^^^ guy. He seems to think he has all the answers.

I don’t suspect I have all the answers or even most of them. But I’ll certainly call people out who claim to have them and probably don’t.

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

Harper.4173:

Vayne.8563:

Harper.4173:

Vayne.8563:

Harper.4173:

Vayne.8563:

kokiman.2364:

Laosduude.1690:

snip

Yeah god forbid challenge in a videogame.

snip

And nobody is stopping you.
However certain players are trying to stop me and others from playing rewarding content. For no reason.

But there is a reason. If you put better rewards on that content, you’re pressuring people to do that content. I know myself. I’ll do most of that content. I won’t enjoy it, but I’ll do it. It will change the entire dynamic of the game.

There are plenty of games that cater to that. Why can’t you let us have just one?

snip

Also how do you know you won’t enjoy it?

And why is it that you being " forced " ( when in fact you’re just forcing yourself) to play content you don’t like is worse than me being actually forced to have terrible rewards for content that I do like?

Why should you enjoy yourself over me?

I’m not asking for vertical progression, power creep or other things.

First of all, I didn’t use the word forced, I used the word pressured. There’s a not so subtle difference between those words.

Secondly I’m not just talking about me. You think I am, but this is a well known phenomena throughout the industry. You haven’t heard about people doing boring, uninteresting things to get rewards? Because it’s in just about every MMO.

I know so many people who don’t enjoy raiding, but they want the gear. I knew people who farmed polar bear minis with no real chance of getting them for weeks on end. I’ve seen people grind out titles doing the more boring stuff imaginable even in Guild Wars 1. So yes, this is a real thing and if it happens here, it’ll be a problem.

Even if you’re not one of the people who have that problem.

Can you stop bringing up WoW and raiding? I’ve already explained that the " pressure" that gear grinding puts wouldn’t be a factor since you wouldn’t need these rewards to be viable or wanted – like was the case in wow.

I also think people have a right to decide for themselves what content they want and do not want to do. How much they want to farm. What they want to play and if they want to do content they dislike just for the rewards.

I’m sure you mean well – but taking away the choice isn’t helping anyone really. People are still subjecting themselves to what you mentioned in GW2 every day.

From dungeon runs in dungeons we’ve done hundreds of times to farming EOTM for those ranks and karma.

Don’t think it’s not happening already – the whole point is to give people in the hardcore crowd something to work for while still allowing it to be attainable by casuals.

I’m bringing up WoW because pressure is pressure and the same kind of pressure would be exerted here.

If you push people and they don’t enjoy the trip, some will leave. The more people that leave, the less people play the game, which is worse for everyone. There is an inherent risk in putting something into the game that a small percentage might like but a larger percentage might feel compelled to do.

Players are often their own worst enemy. My son wanted a legendary weapon. He ended up spending real money to get the gold to get mats to make it. He made it and stopped playing the game. He thought he knew what he wanted…he was wrong.

Experience shows that people WILL do stuff they don’t like to get a reward, but each time they do it, it takes a bit away from their enjoyment of the game, until eventually people walk away. It’s the risk you take putting those types of rewards in the game.

You say people should have freedom to choose. What if they make this change, it causes people to leave the game and there are less people playing? What if my choice was to rather have more people playing than these changes I don’t care about.

A person’s freedom ends where that freedom affects other people. This isn’t a democracy and we don’t get a vote. It’s Anet’s game. If they think enough people are interested, they’re going to make that content. If they think enough people will be disenfranchised by it, they won’t.

Nothing I say here, either way, is likely to change that.

But, people didn’t leave wow, more and more came, but wow is wow

People did leave WoW. They left WoW in droves. It’s just that Blizzard has a huge advertisement budget. I mean they did hire like Mr. T, William Shatner…other famous people over the years. People see commercials for that game…people who’d never look at a gaming site.

WoW was in the right place at the right time, but I’d wager more people have stopped playing WoW than all the people who ever played Guild Wars 1.

Azathor.2845:

Vayne.8563:

Azathor.2845:

Vayne.8563:

kokiman.2364:

Laosduude.1690:

These so called “few players” can go pick up Wildstar then, or play any Korean mmo in the market today. Guild Wars 2 ever since the start has been so relaxing, I don’t want to see it go along some hardcore path to get the best items that gives a significant advantage on almost all situations.

Yeah god forbid challenge in a videogame.

Not really the point. Plenty of people have challenging lives. They don’t need MORE challenge. Getting up in the morning and working is a challenge.

Every job I’ve had in the last 30 years has been ridiculously competitive. I don’t play games to prove myself or challenge myself. I play games to relax and unwind after proving myself and challenging myself all day…or I did before I was retired anyway.

It’s okay for people to play games just to have fun.

LOl. Come on Vayne. Do you really believe this? Some people have a challenge just getting out of bed in the morning? Give me a break man….seriously Vayne, you’re reaching with this one.

I don’t see what harm it would be to have some areas where people could work together in small groups to do more challenging content and get elevated rewards. As long as this content didn’t provide game breaking gear, what’s the harm in it?

I don’t get why so many are against this line of thinking. No one is advocating across the board harder game just some further challenges within the game as it is today.

I’m not reaching at all. Do you realize the age of the average gamer is now over 30. It’s a different generation.

Why do you think raiding games are on the slide. No one has time for that stuff anymore…well not no one, but much fewer people. We’ve grown up, gotten married. I’m 52 years old, not 16. I’m past the point where I need to push my boundaries, and you know, that’s strongest when you’re younger and fades as you get older…for most people anyway.

And more women are playing the game these days. My guild is like half women. Half. The women in my guild aren’t looking for serious competition.

I’m reaching because you think kids are the people playing these games?

Give ME a break.

I’ll be 40 in April. I’m not a kid either but I still like raiding.

I don’t understand why this game cant have things for casual players and for players who want something more to do.

I don’t get what the big deal is?

Maybe you don’t realize how many people bought this game specifically to get away, not just from raiding, but the raiding mentality.

Surely you’ve seen what happens on these forums when someone brings up DPS meters, or gear scores. It’s a different game, made for a different audience.

Why can’t we have just one?

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

But the early hearts being changed…as in the first 1-10 area?

I just don’t see this as something to rebel against. People talk about the “chess” game in metrica being taken out, even though it was ridiculously easy to win at and maybe I’ve spent 10 minutes out of all my time in game doing it.

You never get a second chance to make a good first impression.

I love platitudes that people say but can’t be proven. I mean aside from being factually true, what it’s implying is anything but.

The first Star Trek Pilot was, after all, rejected. But a second was was made.

I think anyone that stops playing a game because they don’t like dancing with cows is someone I wouldn’t care to play with anyway.

I’d say anyone who doesn’t get up to level 20 before they judged an MMO, probably isn’t suited to MMORPGs.

Harper.4173:

Vayne.8563:

Harper.4173:

Vayne.8563:

Harper.4173:

Vayne.8563:

kokiman.2364:

Laosduude.1690:

snip

Yeah god forbid challenge in a videogame.

snip

And nobody is stopping you.
However certain players are trying to stop me and others from playing rewarding content. For no reason.

But there is a reason. If you put better rewards on that content, you’re pressuring people to do that content. I know myself. I’ll do most of that content. I won’t enjoy it, but I’ll do it. It will change the entire dynamic of the game.

There are plenty of games that cater to that. Why can’t you let us have just one?

Because nobody is forcing you. You’re forcing yourself and it’s half funny and half sad.

I’m going to do something that’s probably going to ruin your game experience if what you wrote above is true.
I’m going to reveal the fact that : Currently the most profitable content in this game is the trading post – and anyone who wants to make money should learn how to play it and get spreadsheets and calculators and get cracking.

If what you wrote above is true – you’re going to become a TP guy right? Hardly.

snip

Also how do you know you won’t enjoy it?

And why is it that you being " forced " ( when in fact you’re just forcing yourself) to play content you don’t like is worse than me being actually forced to have terrible rewards for content that I do like?

Why should you enjoy yourself over me?

I’m not asking for vertical progression, power creep or other things.

First of all, I didn’t use the word forced, I used the word pressured. There’s a not so subtle difference between those words.

Secondly I’m not just talking about me. You think I am, but this is a well known phenomena throughout the industry. You haven’t heard about people doing boring, uninteresting things to get rewards? Because it’s in just about every MMO.

I know so many people who don’t enjoy raiding, but they want the gear. I knew people who farmed polar bear minis with no real chance of getting them for weeks on end. I’ve seen people grind out titles doing the more boring stuff imaginable even in Guild Wars 1. So yes, this is a real thing and if it happens here, it’ll be a problem.

Even if you’re not one of the people who have that problem.

Can you stop bringing up WoW and raiding? I’ve already explained that the " pressure" that gear grinding puts wouldn’t be a factor since you wouldn’t need these rewards to be viable or wanted – like was the case in wow.

I also think people have a right to decide for themselves what content they want and do not want to do. How much they want to farm. What they want to play and if they want to do content they dislike just for the rewards.

I’m sure you mean well – but taking away the choice isn’t helping anyone really. People are still subjecting themselves to what you mentioned in GW2 every day.

From dungeon runs in dungeons we’ve done hundreds of times to farming EOTM for those ranks and karma.

Don’t think it’s not happening already – the whole point is to give people in the hardcore crowd something to work for while still allowing it to be attainable by casuals.

I’m bringing up WoW because pressure is pressure and the same kind of pressure would be exerted here.

If you push people and they don’t enjoy the trip, some will leave. The more people that leave, the less people play the game, which is worse for everyone. There is an inherent risk in putting something into the game that a small percentage might like but a larger percentage might feel compelled to do.

Players are often their own worst enemy. My son wanted a legendary weapon. He ended up spending real money to get the gold to get mats to make it. He made it and stopped playing the game. He thought he knew what he wanted…he was wrong.

Experience shows that people WILL do stuff they don’t like to get a reward, but each time they do it, it takes a bit away from their enjoyment of the game, until eventually people walk away. It’s the risk you take putting those types of rewards in the game.

You say people should have freedom to choose. What if they make this change, it causes people to leave the game and there are less people playing? What if my choice was to rather have more people playing than these changes I don’t care about.

A person’s freedom ends where that freedom affects other people. This isn’t a democracy and we don’t get a vote. It’s Anet’s game. If they think enough people are interested, they’re going to make that content. If they think enough people will be disenfranchised by it, they won’t.

Nothing I say here, either way, is likely to change that.

shadow.6174:

Vayne.8563:

I’m simply saying that as a thing to complain about, it’s pretty low on my list. It affects people’s games for a good five minutes and that’s about it.

The biggest issue I have with it is that it sets a silly tone for a game that was previously fairly serious. But then I had the same problem with the lot of the stuff in the game. It’s hardly possible to think of this game as serious and dark when I’m sandwhiched between a guy with a quaggan backpack and another with a hylek hoodie.

Yes, I see what you mean. These things aren’t a big deal like several other bad changes regarding NPE. And yeah, it sounds like with NPE the game lost even more its seriously, even though it already was loosing some as you said.

Over all, I think the NPE is a positive change…not every bit of it, but over all. Maybe it’s 80% positive to me. The patch as a whole was more than that. It got over-shadowed by a huge reaction from the fan base, which I consider to be an over reaction.

Much of the stuff that was said about it wasn’t true at all, and by the time the true stuff was known, Anet had already made changes to it.

To me, the speed of leveling to 15 easily outweighed anything that I disliked about the changes and other things I got along the way made up for it in other ways.

The trait changes need a lot of work (but I don’t consider them part of the NPE). Furthermore, the personal story needs work, because apparently (I haven’t tested this myself), it got screwed up.

But the early hearts being changed…as in the first 1-10 area?

I just don’t see this as something to rebel against. People talk about the “chess” game in metrica being taken out, even though it was ridiculously easy to win at and maybe I’ve spent 10 minutes out of all my time in game doing it.

shadow.6174:

Vayne.8563:

I agree with that. But why is everyone ignoring the fact that since launch there’s been an event in Diessa Plateau where you have to dress up on a cow suit to teach cows how to be cows?

Lol, true I had forgotten about that one. But well, even though the game already had silly stuff the point is they made more good things on stupidly silly things. The problem isn’t having silly stuff, some of them can be fun at times, but it’s the reason behind using them.

The event at Diessa Plateau was a “random” one that wouldn’t have much to do with leveling process. But using a silly stuff as reason for “teaching” people and using it because they suppose people aren’t “smart enough” to deal with “complex” stuff, yes this is the issue. It would be like using silly cartoons to teach numbering to a 15 years old student in elementary school just because you “suppose” they aren’t able to understand it yet.

I’m not disagreeing that the change made to the cow thing was a bad change. Just to be clear about that.

I’m simply saying that as a thing to complain about, it’s pretty low on my list. It affects people’s games for a good five minutes and that’s about it.

The biggest issue I have with it is that it sets a silly tone for a game that was previously fairly serious. But then I had the same problem with the lot of the stuff in the game. It’s hardly possible to think of this game as serious and dark when I’m sandwhiched between a guy with a quaggan backpack and another with a hylek hoodie.