The coil watch event chain is intentionally failed over and over again, because it’s more profitable to fail it and farm champs than it is to succeed.
The problem is the living story achievements require you to complete it, so it causes a conflict.
The game felt so huge.
By the time I bought it, the EOTN had been released. I played all the way from the northernmost edge in Jaga Morraine down to the southernmost areas in Cantha, all across the parched plains of Elona and up to again the endlessly burning forests of the Charr area.
I miss the scale and scope of the dungeons. Not cramped rooms filled with seemingly endless trash mobs but whole maps in their own right where you carefully maneuvered among the mobs, taking them out one by one. (And the Dreadspawn Maw in the Domain of Anguish, aka DoA or Dead on Arrival, scared the spit out of me by coming out of the ground right beside me the first time I was there). The Guild Wars 2 dungeons don’t evoke the same feelings of battling dangerous foes.
By comparison, Guild Wars 2 feels so much smaller.
Keep in mind, I was able to finish all four Guild Wars 1 titles in a single week once.
I was talking about moving across the landscape and how big it felt. How big the dungeons were and how hard to fight the individual mobs were. Not whether one person could finish the game fast if they wanted to.
Guild Wars 1 (not dungeons the world) gave the illusion of size by limiting where you could and couldn’t go. It felt big because you could never go in a straight line to anywhere. You snaked back and forth on a path or one of a couple of paths through a large zone that was mostly inaccessible.
Take a look at the area north of Piken Square. It’s not really that big. But it’s very very hard to navigate. The illusion of size.
Oh I know all that. I didn’t say they were bigger, I said they gw1 felt bigger. And it still does, Guild Wars 1 gives the illusion of more space by being spread out across a bigger potion of the known maps. By having Elona and Cantha, the Crystal Desert and the far north. By having the ring of fire and the huge dungeons that were whole maps in their own right.
There may be more map to Guild Wars 2 but it feels much more limited in size without the other continents and the large dungeons.
You did say this is a thread about nostalgia and this is what I feel nostalgic for.
GW1 maps was way bigger ..time how long it takes to cross a map in gws 1 vs gws 2….the maps was/ are huge vs the maps of gws 2
They are the same – LOL there is no difference in the size, except that GW1 you had the map instance for your party only. It is a fake difference. Also you had to fight your way through the maps – that makes it feel different also. Having more people on a map makes it feel smaller also.
The maps are the same size. Don’t believe me – http://zoom.it/TWLx#full
GW1 is bigger, they had to shrink the GW1 map to make the GW2 map fit.
also, your link only adds icons on the GW2 map, it doesn’t prove anything.Is this an opinion or can you back that up with evidence?
i can but i need to make it from scratch, can’t find the LA from before….
Can’t really do it with LA, since the old LA isn’t in the same area as the new LA. It’s a different city, rebuilt after the tidal wave that destroyed it. You’d have to do it with a zone that existed in both games in the same area.
Anyway, let’s put it this way: entertaining a cow isn’t logical in anywhere in universe, either RL or in game. A cow is hungry and what you do is dance in front it? C’mon, that’s non-sense. And again, what’s the difficulty in handling a bundle? Anyone curious enough could quickly figure out what to do with it and how to get rid of it. It’s even funny they took away bundles from starter hearts while I still see random bundles around in some starter areas (and with it I mean lower than lvl 5 areas)…
I agree with that. But why is everyone ignoring the fact that since launch there’s been an event in Diessa Plateau where you have to dress up on a cow suit to teach cows how to be cows?
Seems to me that there was already silly stuff like that in game and no one said a word. Suddenly NPE comes out and oh it’s silly. If you were going to complain about silly stuff, there was plenty of stuff to complain about already.
This is just people jumping in the bandwagon, picking on one stupid change made to an event, because you know, it’s cool to pick on the NPE.
It would be valid if the game didn’t already have stuff just as stupid in it.
It absolutely is grasping as straws. But, that doesn’t change the fact that this update ruined a lot of things I enjoyed about this game.
This isn’t grasping at straws. Be honest with me, how many hours have you spent playng the game since launch? How many of those hours did you spend feeding cows?
The game felt so huge.
By the time I bought it, the EOTN had been released. I played all the way from the northernmost edge in Jaga Morraine down to the southernmost areas in Cantha, all across the parched plains of Elona and up to again the endlessly burning forests of the Charr area.
I miss the scale and scope of the dungeons. Not cramped rooms filled with seemingly endless trash mobs but whole maps in their own right where you carefully maneuvered among the mobs, taking them out one by one. (And the Dreadspawn Maw in the Domain of Anguish, aka DoA or Dead on Arrival, scared the spit out of me by coming out of the ground right beside me the first time I was there). The Guild Wars 2 dungeons don’t evoke the same feelings of battling dangerous foes.
By comparison, Guild Wars 2 feels so much smaller.
Keep in mind, I was able to finish all four Guild Wars 1 titles in a single week once.
I was talking about moving across the landscape and how big it felt. How big the dungeons were and how hard to fight the individual mobs were. Not whether one person could finish the game fast if they wanted to.
Guild Wars 1 (not dungeons the world) gave the illusion of size by limiting where you could and couldn’t go. It felt big because you could never go in a straight line to anywhere. You snaked back and forth on a path or one of a couple of paths through a large zone that was mostly inaccessible.
Take a look at the area north of Piken Square. It’s not really that big. But it’s very very hard to navigate. The illusion of size.
Oh I know all that. I didn’t say they were bigger, I said they gw1 felt bigger. And it still does, Guild Wars 1 gives the illusion of more space by being spread out across a bigger potion of the known maps. By having Elona and Cantha, the Crystal Desert and the far north. By having the ring of fire and the huge dungeons that were whole maps in their own right.
There may be more map to Guild Wars 2 but it feels much more limited in size without the other continents and the large dungeons.
You did say this is a thread about nostalgia and this is what I feel nostalgic for.
GW1 maps was way bigger ..time how long it takes to cross a map in gws 1 vs gws 2….the maps was/ are huge vs the maps of gws 2
They are the same – LOL there is no difference in the size, except that GW1 you had the map instance for your party only. It is a fake difference. Also you had to fight your way through the maps – that makes it feel different also. Having more people on a map makes it feel smaller also.
The maps are the same size. Don’t believe me – http://zoom.it/TWLx#full
GW1 is bigger, they had to shrink the GW1 map to make the GW2 map fit.
also, your link only adds icons on the GW2 map, it doesn’t prove anything.
Is this an opinion or can you back that up with evidence?
Anyway, let’s put it this way: entertaining a cow isn’t logical in anywhere in universe, either RL or in game. A cow is hungry and what you do is dance in front it? C’mon, that’s non-sense. And again, what’s the difficulty in handling a bundle? Anyone curious enough could quickly figure out what to do with it and how to get rid of it. It’s even funny they took away bundles from starter hearts while I still see random bundles around in some starter areas (and with it I mean lower than lvl 5 areas)…
I agree with that. But why is everyone ignoring the fact that since launch there’s been an event in Diessa Plateau where you have to dress up on a cow suit to teach cows how to be cows?
Seems to me that there was already silly stuff like that in game and no one said a word. Suddenly NPE comes out and oh it’s silly. If you were going to complain about silly stuff, there was plenty of stuff to complain about already.
This is just people jumping in the bandwagon, picking on one stupid change made to an event, because you know, it’s cool to pick on the NPE.
It would be valid if the game didn’t already have stuff just as stupid in it.
These so called “few players” can go pick up Wildstar then, or play any Korean mmo in the market today. Guild Wars 2 ever since the start has been so relaxing, I don’t want to see it go along some hardcore path to get the best items that gives a significant advantage on almost all situations.
Yeah god forbid challenge in a videogame.
Not really the point. Plenty of people have challenging lives. They don’t need MORE challenge. Getting up in the morning and working is a challenge.
Every job I’ve had in the last 30 years has been ridiculously competitive. I don’t play games to prove myself or challenge myself. I play games to relax and unwind after proving myself and challenging myself all day…or I did before I was retired anyway.
It’s okay for people to play games just to have fun.
LOl. Come on Vayne. Do you really believe this? Some people have a challenge just getting out of bed in the morning? Give me a break man….seriously Vayne, you’re reaching with this one.
I don’t see what harm it would be to have some areas where people could work together in small groups to do more challenging content and get elevated rewards. As long as this content didn’t provide game breaking gear, what’s the harm in it?
I don’t get why so many are against this line of thinking. No one is advocating across the board harder game just some further challenges within the game as it is today.
I’m not reaching at all. Do you realize the age of the average gamer is now over 30. It’s a different generation.
Why do you think raiding games are on the slide. No one has time for that stuff anymore…well not no one, but much fewer people. We’ve grown up, gotten married. I’m 52 years old, not 16. I’m past the point where I need to push my boundaries, and you know, that’s strongest when you’re younger and fades as you get older…for most people anyway.
And more women are playing the game these days. My guild is like half women. Half. The women in my guild aren’t looking for serious competition.
I’m reaching because you think kids are the people playing these games?
Give ME a break.
@Vayne
If you are worried about the 95% then those players don’t need to do the content(see how that works?:) They have other content that they can do.
GW1 was successful because people had fun doing DoA, FoW, UW and other “Elite” missions. Was it a gear grind? No!!! It was purely cosmetic.
If GW2 were to implement a “Elite” style dungeon(s) that are fun and rewarding, it would not only give that 5% some much needed new and exciting content but also push the 95% to get better at the game then just face roll zerg or stack and smack.
I’m glad you think you know why Guild Wars 1 was successful. I’m not sure that that’s the case however.
It’s just a guess…and it’s certainly not my guess.
Well, the question becomes if it’s hard enough for the top 5% and 95% can’t get that stuff, you’re pressuring 95% of the fan base.
Would you rather lose 5% of your playerbase, or 10% of 95%.
I’m not saying those are the right numbers, but the idea applies. You don’t risk the bigger percentage, you risk the smaller one. At least you do if you want to maximize your profits.
things have degrees, and top 5% wouldnt be the ones you are aiming for. Right now the most rewarding activities are aimed at top 90%. You can get the best rewards following and literally spamming 1 in eotm, before that, queensdale and frostgorge champ trains. Paths in dungeons where people figured out how to win via spamming attacks blindly without moving in specific standing spots.(at least they had to find the spots, and strats)
And your percentage theory is off here, because this is a game that wants to have replayability. Things are replayable when they have depth. Pool would not be a replayable game if all you had to do was put the balls in the hole with your hand. People learn and adapt to the level of the game, if the game does not have that depth, they will quit.
The only way to keep people entertained without some sort of challenge/depth, is to make new content constantly, or make them grind for something they really really want. The game is mostly about C, which is in general the least satisfying method of entertainment for many people.
the second one is hard for the developers
the first in combination with the others is the best bet.
I’m not even disagreeing with you, per se. However, I am cautioning that the kind of challenging content and rewards I believe most of the hard-core players in this thread are asking for is quite different.
They think the dungeons as they stand are basically easy…and I don’t think most of the playerbase finds that to be true. Some do…sure. But not most.
So it’s a word of caution. Particularly if the rewards are the kinds of things everyone wants.
One or two things people can’t get…no problem. I don’t have the liadri mini and I might never. But if there were 10 of those things? 20? 30? Eventually I would start to feel this game wasn’t for me. And that’s the danger.
All I hope is that the whole living story approach is discarded entirely. It’s not a story, nor it is good quality content. It’s just a vehicle for driving gem sales and I hate it.
I second that!
You really think they would abandon this lucrative gemsale machine just because SOME players are not happy with it? We are only at season 2, expect at least 10 seasons more.
FTFY. There are people who like it and people who don’t. There certainly seems to be plenty of speculation by players that makes me think at least a reasonable percentage of people do like it.
These so called “few players” can go pick up Wildstar then, or play any Korean mmo in the market today. Guild Wars 2 ever since the start has been so relaxing, I don’t want to see it go along some hardcore path to get the best items that gives a significant advantage on almost all situations.
Yeah god forbid challenge in a videogame.
Not really the point. Plenty of people have challenging lives. They don’t need MORE challenge. Getting up in the morning and working is a challenge.
Every job I’ve had in the last 30 years has been ridiculously competitive. I don’t play games to prove myself or challenge myself. I play games to relax and unwind after proving myself and challenging myself all day…or I did before I was retired anyway.
It’s okay for people to play games just to have fun.
And nobody is stopping you.
However certain players are trying to stop me and others from playing rewarding content. For no reason.But there is a reason. If you put better rewards on that content, you’re pressuring people to do that content. I know myself. I’ll do most of that content. I won’t enjoy it, but I’ll do it. It will change the entire dynamic of the game.
There are plenty of games that cater to that. Why can’t you let us have just one?
Because nobody is forcing you. You’re forcing yourself and it’s half funny and half sad.
I’m going to do something that’s probably going to ruin your game experience if what you wrote above is true.
I’m going to reveal the fact that : Currently the most profitable content in this game is the trading post – and anyone who wants to make money should learn how to play it and get spreadsheets and calculators and get cracking.If what you wrote above is true – you’re going to become a TP guy right? Hardly.
You know, I know, everybody knows the TP is where it’s at yet I don’t find myself getting a master’s in economics any time soon. And neither will you.
The bottom line is this " pressure " you speak of is something you’re putting on yourself – and it’s a pretty far cry from the casual laid back Vayne you make yourself out to be on the forums.
Nobody is forcing you to play what you don’t like.
Also how do you know you won’t enjoy it?
And why is it that you being " forced " ( when in fact you’re just forcing yourself) to play content you don’t like is worse than me being actually forced to have terrible rewards for content that I do like?
Why should you enjoy yourself over me?
I’m not asking for vertical progression, power creep or other things.
First of all, I didn’t use the word forced, I used the word pressured. There’s a not so subtle difference between those words.
Secondly I’m not just talking about me. You think I am, but this is a well known phenomena throughout the industry. You haven’t heard about people doing boring, uninteresting things to get rewards? Because it’s in just about every MMO.
I know so many people who don’t enjoy raiding, but they want the gear. I knew people who farmed polar bear minis with no real chance of getting them for weeks on end. I’ve seen people grind out titles doing the more boring stuff imaginable even in Guild Wars 1. So yes, this is a real thing and if it happens here, it’ll be a problem.
Even if you’re not one of the people who have that problem.
problem is, we already do boring stuff to get what we want in this game.
Tp merchant game, boring(to many)
Champ train (boring)
EOTM (boring)
Ascended mats (boring)Why are these boring things aok, and if you dont like them you shouldnt do them(even though its less effecient), but doing challenging content to get better rewards is inherently wrong.
why is inherently wrong that challenging content gives better rewards, but not inherently wrong that unchallenging content gives better rewards?
Well, the question becomes if it’s hard enough for the top 5% and 95% can’t get that stuff, you’re pressuring 95% of the fan base.
Would you rather lose 5% of your playerbase, or 10% of 95%.
I’m not saying those are the right numbers, but the idea applies. You don’t risk the bigger percentage, you risk the smaller one. At least you do if you want to maximize your profits.
You know what? You explaining it more simply does nothing but prove my point.
You buy a car. You like it. Years later the same manufacturer comes out with another car, and you see one commerical and buy it without doing research?
There’s a list of things different about this game from Guild Wars 1, and almost every single one of them has been known before launch.
Before launch I knew there’d be no Guild vs Guild. Before launch I knew there’s be one structured PvP type. Before launch I knew there’d be no heroes. I knew the level cap would be higher. I knew that there would be less skills and they’d be tied to weapons.
So again, if you bought this game and didn’t pay attention to what was actually said, simply because you had faith in the developer, that’s your own problem.
I played Guild Wars 1 as well, knew pretty much what I was getting into and so I’m satisfied with what I got. Because I listened to what was said. I knew it wasn’t going to be the same game. It logically couldn’t.
The only real issue that I see, and it’s a big one, is the ascended items debacle, which people couldn’t have known. At that time, Anet gave refunds to people who were playing the game for months, which they didn’t have to do. People who didn’t like that change were entitled to get a refund.
Many chose to stay and complain instead of getting a refund. That’s not Anet’s fault either. I don’t like ascended gear, but I sure understand why Anet felt they had to put it in.
You make a good point but let me make one too.
I expected the company that allowed us to respec skills and skill points in any city to give us easy trait respect and trait templates on launch.
I expected a LFG tool to be here at launch ( given that the lack of one was often brought up in GW1).
I expected the process of getting a legendary to actually mean something other than getting money and buying the stuff.
I expected the story quality to be at least somewhat similar to GW1.
I expected Guild “last online” feature to be there at launch.
He made a good point, and you made a good point too.
The point is this – a lot of us are disappointed because the “new car” – while advertised as new – was never advertised to have certain features from the “old car” missing.
So one might wonder why they didn’t put these features in the “second car” to begin with considering they knew about them and had used them before.
Well, you know that is a good point. The problem is, I recognized pretty early that the game launched too early and probably did so to get out before MoP. Because if MoP was successful, it could have seriously cut into revenue.
I knew the game that launched wasn’t the game I was getting and that it would be a year before it was. It was more like two years.
This is really launch time. I’ve been saying it almost since launch. I maintain it to this day.
If the game had launched two years later, you’d probably have been happier…but the game might not have had enough money to come out if that was the case.
These so called “few players” can go pick up Wildstar then, or play any Korean mmo in the market today. Guild Wars 2 ever since the start has been so relaxing, I don’t want to see it go along some hardcore path to get the best items that gives a significant advantage on almost all situations.
Yeah god forbid challenge in a videogame.
Not really the point. Plenty of people have challenging lives. They don’t need MORE challenge. Getting up in the morning and working is a challenge.
Every job I’ve had in the last 30 years has been ridiculously competitive. I don’t play games to prove myself or challenge myself. I play games to relax and unwind after proving myself and challenging myself all day…or I did before I was retired anyway.
It’s okay for people to play games just to have fun.
And nobody is stopping you.
However certain players are trying to stop me and others from playing rewarding content. For no reason.But there is a reason. If you put better rewards on that content, you’re pressuring people to do that content. I know myself. I’ll do most of that content. I won’t enjoy it, but I’ll do it. It will change the entire dynamic of the game.
There are plenty of games that cater to that. Why can’t you let us have just one?
Because nobody is forcing you. You’re forcing yourself and it’s half funny and half sad.
I’m going to do something that’s probably going to ruin your game experience if what you wrote above is true.
I’m going to reveal the fact that : Currently the most profitable content in this game is the trading post – and anyone who wants to make money should learn how to play it and get spreadsheets and calculators and get cracking.If what you wrote above is true – you’re going to become a TP guy right? Hardly.
You know, I know, everybody knows the TP is where it’s at yet I don’t find myself getting a master’s in economics any time soon. And neither will you.
The bottom line is this " pressure " you speak of is something you’re putting on yourself – and it’s a pretty far cry from the casual laid back Vayne you make yourself out to be on the forums.
Nobody is forcing you to play what you don’t like.
Also how do you know you won’t enjoy it?
And why is it that you being " forced " ( when in fact you’re just forcing yourself) to play content you don’t like is worse than me being actually forced to have terrible rewards for content that I do like?
Why should you enjoy yourself over me?
I’m not asking for vertical progression, power creep or other things.
First of all, I didn’t use the word forced, I used the word pressured. There’s a not so subtle difference between those words.
Secondly I’m not just talking about me. You think I am, but this is a well known phenomena throughout the industry. You haven’t heard about people doing boring, uninteresting things to get rewards? Because it’s in just about every MMO.
I know so many people who don’t enjoy raiding, but they want the gear. I knew people who farmed polar bear minis with no real chance of getting them for weeks on end. I’ve seen people grind out titles doing the more boring stuff imaginable even in Guild Wars 1. So yes, this is a real thing and if it happens here, it’ll be a problem.
Even if you’re not one of the people who have that problem.
Changes are sometimes for the better, and sometimes for the supposed better (which end up being worse).
I invited a friend of mine to test GW2 during this free “weekend”. He is an avid WoW player but decided to try a game without subscription. He was so eager to play… Until he tested.
1. " So I have to wait to unlock skills? That’s stupid. " I explained. " Right, I didn’t know I was too dumb to read a description or try more than two skills at a time… "
2. " I am dancing in front of a cow… I feel stupid. " I explained about the bundles being too complex. " I can use a credit card but not a bundle when a message pops up, right. But it’s good: I can’t use more than two skills so… "
3. " No stats bonus while leveling? There’s no need for leveling then. " I explained the stats burst. " Ok, so you’re strong, then weak, then super weak, then strong, then weak, then super weak. Why don’t they just buff stats at lvl80? "
4. " There’s no story? " I explained level gated story parts. " I didn’t realize this game was made for kids between 3 and 4. "
5. " I’m bored, I’m only level 6 and I have nothing left to do… "And that’s how a new player received NPE.
Yes, I’m sure with you explaining all that to him, and obviously you weren’t at all biased, you’ve definitely got a case study there.
My friend came back to the game, which he left because he didn’t like it. He’s level 15 today and likes it much better. The difference is, I didn’t tell him a bunch of stuff about how much better it used to be.
The real test will be the bulk of the people after the free trial who go on to buy the game. If it’s more than previous trails (significantly more) than Anet was right.
I didn’t tell him anything biased, but rather how things work. Just because I’m not praising the NPE the way you do doesn’t mean I’m all against it.
He might be one in a million, but the NPE won’t attract people from other games, ANet must be aiming for a totally new audience.
I don’t buy this at all. My friend is currently playing DDO and he played Guild Wars 1 before. He’s not totally new.
First of all, there are five starting areas. The cow thing is one event in Queensdale and you can complete it without ever dancing for a cow.
Your friend from WoW who said he had to wait to unlock stills was stupid is really strange, because you don’t get a billion skills up front in WoW either, you get more skills as you level. So I don’t get that at all.
If it’s all the same too you, I’ll wait for some actual evidence instead of your anecdotal evidence of one, offset by my anecdotal evidence.
He happens to prefer human characters, is it strange? I don’t like Charrs, Asura, and Sylvari. I assume I can’t enjoy 100% of the game if I don’t like every class and test every place? The cows are one event, but more generally the first most people do.
I don’t play WoW, so besides writing what my friend told me, I can’t really say if he’s right or wrong.
As I said, he might be one in a million and we’ll only know what results “NPE + free weekend” give later on.
Again, you seem to believe that if it’s different from your point of view, it’s not true/logical. Fact is, most people aren’t like you or your friends. I don’t see why my friend shouldn’t give reason A not to love the game since you believe reason A is biased. Also, you ask for evidence but you provide as much evidence as I do: “my friend thinks/my guild believe” and that’s all. I would be quite surprised to see any of your guildmates come here and discuss the problem. I would gladly give you any evidence you want as soon as I will have any evidence supporting each and every of your argument in every topic on the forum, because besides some “I believe that it’s good because I’m not like you and coincidentally my friends like the game more too” chattering, you don’t provide much subject matter.
My point is a test case of one is as meaningless on EITHER side. We’ll know soon enough.
These so called “few players” can go pick up Wildstar then, or play any Korean mmo in the market today. Guild Wars 2 ever since the start has been so relaxing, I don’t want to see it go along some hardcore path to get the best items that gives a significant advantage on almost all situations.
Yeah god forbid challenge in a videogame.
Not really the point. Plenty of people have challenging lives. They don’t need MORE challenge. Getting up in the morning and working is a challenge.
Every job I’ve had in the last 30 years has been ridiculously competitive. I don’t play games to prove myself or challenge myself. I play games to relax and unwind after proving myself and challenging myself all day…or I did before I was retired anyway.
It’s okay for people to play games just to have fun.
And nobody is stopping you.
However certain players are trying to stop me and others from playing rewarding content. For no reason.
But there is a reason. If you put better rewards on that content, you’re pressuring people to do that content. I know myself. I’ll do most of that content. I won’t enjoy it, but I’ll do it. It will change the entire dynamic of the game.
There are plenty of games that cater to that. Why can’t you let us have just one?
Changes are sometimes for the better, and sometimes for the supposed better (which end up being worse).
I invited a friend of mine to test GW2 during this free “weekend”. He is an avid WoW player but decided to try a game without subscription. He was so eager to play… Until he tested.
1. " So I have to wait to unlock skills? That’s stupid. " I explained. " Right, I didn’t know I was too dumb to read a description or try more than two skills at a time… "
2. " I am dancing in front of a cow… I feel stupid. " I explained about the bundles being too complex. " I can use a credit card but not a bundle when a message pops up, right. But it’s good: I can’t use more than two skills so… "
3. " No stats bonus while leveling? There’s no need for leveling then. " I explained the stats burst. " Ok, so you’re strong, then weak, then super weak, then strong, then weak, then super weak. Why don’t they just buff stats at lvl80? "
4. " There’s no story? " I explained level gated story parts. " I didn’t realize this game was made for kids between 3 and 4. "
5. " I’m bored, I’m only level 6 and I have nothing left to do… "And that’s how a new player received NPE.
Yes, I’m sure with you explaining all that to him, and obviously you weren’t at all biased, you’ve definitely got a case study there.
My friend came back to the game, which he left because he didn’t like it. He’s level 15 today and likes it much better. The difference is, I didn’t tell him a bunch of stuff about how much better it used to be.
The real test will be the bulk of the people after the free trial who go on to buy the game. If it’s more than previous trails (significantly more) than Anet was right.
I didn’t tell him anything biased, but rather how things work. Just because I’m not praising the NPE the way you do doesn’t mean I’m all against it.
He might be one in a million, but the NPE won’t attract people from other games, ANet must be aiming for a totally new audience.
I don’t buy this at all. My friend is currently playing DDO and he played Guild Wars 1 before. He’s not totally new.
First of all, there are five starting areas. The cow thing is one event in Queensdale and you can complete it without ever dancing for a cow.
Your friend from WoW who said he had to wait to unlock stills was stupid is really strange, because you don’t get a billion skills up front in WoW either, you get more skills as you level. So I don’t get that at all.
If it’s all the same too you, I’ll wait for some actual evidence instead of your anecdotal evidence of one, offset by my anecdotal evidence.
Fact is, more challenging content (that you wouldn’t be forced to do) would greatly increase the fun of the game for a large group of players and yet you’re against it because it’s not something you personally enjoy.
The real “fact” is that those that want “more challenging content” mostly just want stuff
that 95% of the playerbase will never have a chance to get, so that they can show off
how great they are.And THAT is what i am against.
THAT is the reason people play MMOs.
Why should you care that they can get stuff you can’t? What exactly is the problem?Why this " If I can’t get it – it shouldn’t exist and nobody should be able to get it" attitude?
We already have legendary weapons and ascended armor that are hard to get – so it’s not like Anet is against the concept of having stuff in game that some players will never have.
Why exactly must you be entitled to everything in a game just because you bought it?
What evidence do you have that that’s the reason people play MMOs. I mean logically if only 5% of the people get that stuff, then wouldn’t only 5% of the players want the game to be that way?
Do you think the other 95% people are sitting there going, it’s good those guys can get that stuff, because I don’t want it?
Because I don’t.
Changes are sometimes for the better, and sometimes for the supposed better (which end up being worse).
I invited a friend of mine to test GW2 during this free “weekend”. He is an avid WoW player but decided to try a game without subscription. He was so eager to play… Until he tested.
1. " So I have to wait to unlock skills? That’s stupid. " I explained. " Right, I didn’t know I was too dumb to read a description or try more than two skills at a time… "
2. " I am dancing in front of a cow… I feel stupid. " I explained about the bundles being too complex. " I can use a credit card but not a bundle when a message pops up, right. But it’s good: I can’t use more than two skills so… "
3. " No stats bonus while leveling? There’s no need for leveling then. " I explained the stats burst. " Ok, so you’re strong, then weak, then super weak, then strong, then weak, then super weak. Why don’t they just buff stats at lvl80? "
4. " There’s no story? " I explained level gated story parts. " I didn’t realize this game was made for kids between 3 and 4. "
5. " I’m bored, I’m only level 6 and I have nothing left to do… "And that’s how a new player received NPE.
Yes, I’m sure with you explaining all that to him, and obviously you weren’t at all biased, you’ve definitely got a case study there.
My friend came back to the game, which he left because he didn’t like it. He’s level 15 today and likes it much better. The difference is, I didn’t tell him a bunch of stuff about how much better it used to be.
The real test will be the bulk of the people after the free trial who go on to buy the game. If it’s more than previous trails (significantly more) than Anet was right.
These so called “few players” can go pick up Wildstar then, or play any Korean mmo in the market today. Guild Wars 2 ever since the start has been so relaxing, I don’t want to see it go along some hardcore path to get the best items that gives a significant advantage on almost all situations.
Yeah god forbid challenge in a videogame.
Not really the point. Plenty of people have challenging lives. They don’t need MORE challenge. Getting up in the morning and working is a challenge.
Every job I’ve had in the last 30 years has been ridiculously competitive. I don’t play games to prove myself or challenge myself. I play games to relax and unwind after proving myself and challenging myself all day…or I did before I was retired anyway.
It’s okay for people to play games just to have fun.
As someone who did not play Guild Wars 1, I gotta say, I didn’t hear/see any hype. Quite honestly, I didn’t even know GW2 was coming out until some friends who played GW1 said something and begged me to try it with them (at early release). I reluctantly agreed and have been playing every day since, as have all of my friends. Well, there was one guy who did not like GW2 because it wasn’t like GW1. He’s off playing Destiny/WoW now.
So can I assume all of the hype being referenced here is whatever hype was directed towards GW1 players? I honestly feel bad for you guys. Going into the game fresh without any expectations = fantastic game.
It’s not really that simple. There was a lot of hype, but there was also a lot of information provided.
Certainly PvPers from Guild Wars 1 got the shortest end of the stick. For PvE’ers it probably depended on the content you played. But there are many people in game who played Guild Wars 1 and are satisfied.
A lot of the hype was self-induced. Anet would say one line and people would reiterated it until it became a promise in their mind.
It’s just not all that cut and dried. I played Guild Wars 1 for six years. I don’t have the same problems as many others.
I personally like both easy and difficult content (I don’t always want to do hard stuff 24/7, but I certainly do like challenges), but I’d prefer it if difficult content was limited to smaller groups or individual play. It’s frustrating when Anet tries to implement overly difficult content on a large scale, like with world bosses, because your success or failure is dependent on the coordination a multitude of other random players and is no longer subject to personal skill. At the very least, it’s fine if these events are hard in a more typical sense, but it goes without saying that an event doesn’t necessarily have to demand a lot of coordination to be difficult (a good example is Mark 2 Golem. It’s easy to die during the event, so it is difficult in a sense, but it doesn’t require any coordination, so you won’t necessarily fail it because of other less experienced players).
In the end, it’s all about balance. It is possible to cater to both hardcore and casual players at the same time, it only becomes an issue when you try to mix the two groups together and force them to work with each other.
This post reflects how I feel almost perfectly.
I never throw away anything unless I get a confirmation from Anet that it’s not going to be useful at some point. Because when I’ve done so in the past, I’ve regretted it.
Never said it was a good idea. Did say I understand what Anet was trying to do with it. It was a gamble and it didn’t work out. Feel free to misquote me as much as you like, however. It’s entertaining how many people bring up my name, and then completely try to say something I didn’t say.
You also deny that it was plainly obvious it would be a bad idea.
It wasn’t even close to a gamble. It was just a mess. That’s the whole point.
I actually liked the way it was…to a degree. I liked the idea that there was always something different and new to do. Once I do some kinds of content I don’t actually care if I ever do it again. So yeah, I loved Escape from Lion’s Arch but it’s done. I was happy to wait for the next thing. I liked the idea of a story moving forward on a constant basis.
I didn’t like some of the achievements and the pressure that put on me however.
There are people playing this game that liked it. Saying it’s obviously a bad idea when some people liked it is sort of interesting.
The fact is, and it is a fact, we don’t really know what percentage of players actually disliked it.
You know, even the phrase difficult content is problematic. Difficult content for who?
There are people out there, many people, for whom dungeons in this game are difficult content. The people who are really asking for difficult content, are asking for content difficult for them. I’m not sure I’d be able to do that content, though I can run any dungeon in the game.
The thing is, it may be that all players want difficult content…for them. Stuff that challenges them that they can accomplish. But there’s such a range of skill sets among the player base, there’s no real way to create difficult content with a capital D.
@Vayne
[…]
In reality, no person could possibly live up to the expectations that fans have for Anet. It’s not reasonable to expect plans won’t change…particularly in an MMO. Particularly in an article that said nothing is set in stone.
[…]Really Vayne ?! Since this seems so hard for you to digest, I’ll try to put it in a much simpler way:
I suppose you own a car. Or at least you prefer some brand. And you happily use that car over and over till the time comes to replace that car with a new one. By that time, the manufacturer of the car already advertises for “a brand new model, a shinier, much more polished version of something you already own, you know, you rely on and you TRUST”.So, of course, you rush in to buy this new car only to find out that the emblem is the only thing which reminds you of the old, reliable one. Everything else in this new car is … something else. Not to mention things, important parts, are missing. Parts or features that you, as a sane man, expected to find since you can’t truly imagine that the manufacturer of the old car would cutoff from the new one. And of course the manufacturer would not lie to you. After all this is the manufacturer you trust. Right ?
And if you still pretend not to understand the point, I’ll give a second example, asking your wife to read it for you:
When it comes to cosmetics, women get very attached to certain brands. They need reliable products. They rarely try new brands and they are very loyal to the ones they know, the ones they trust. Unlike video games or cars, bad cosmetics might just turn your face into a nightmare and scare the husband away, so this customer-merchant relation is based on quality and trust. I trust she will explain the details further, in case you’re still scratching your head.I made efforts and bought my GW2 Collector’s Edition given the trust and expectations and advertisement from ArenaNet. All my friends know this story. I bought the most expensive version of the game in order to show my gratitude for a good product (GW1) and my trust in the company who made it. I also did it to encourage, to financially sustain the development of this new product, given the trust I had for the company who made both.
Now, can you even image the disappointment ?
Do you know what happens when a customer gets hit by such a disappointing experience ?I understand that ArenaNet has a business to run and I understand that things may change on the way. But there’s a limit ! Now please get off the chair, go straight to your employer’s desk and tell him, at the risk of being fired, that the mockery has to stop.
You know what? You explaining it more simply does nothing but prove my point.
You buy a car. You like it. Years later the same manufacturer comes out with another car, and you see one commerical and buy it without doing research?
There’s a list of things different about this game from Guild Wars 1, and almost every single one of them has been known before launch.
Before launch I knew there’d be no Guild vs Guild. Before launch I knew there’s be one structured PvP type. Before launch I knew there’d be no heroes. I knew the level cap would be higher. I knew that there would be less skills and they’d be tied to weapons.
So again, if you bought this game and didn’t pay attention to what was actually said, simply because you had faith in the developer, that’s your own problem.
I played Guild Wars 1 as well, knew pretty much what I was getting into and so I’m satisfied with what I got. Because I listened to what was said. I knew it wasn’t going to be the same game. It logically couldn’t.
The only real issue that I see, and it’s a big one, is the ascended items debacle, which people couldn’t have known. At that time, Anet gave refunds to people who were playing the game for months, which they didn’t have to do. People who didn’t like that change were entitled to get a refund.
Many chose to stay and complain instead of getting a refund. That’s not Anet’s fault either. I don’t like ascended gear, but I sure understand why Anet felt they had to put it in.
Anet has done a lot to break up the zerg mentality. I’m not even sure why people haven’t noticed. Take the last events created by Anet:
The Marionette
Triple Threat
Escape from Lion’s Arch
The Battle for Lion’s Arch
The Queen’s Pavillion
Dry TopEach of these events are “zergable” to a point and then stop being zergable, particularly if you want the maximum reward. Zerging is the least efficient way to go.
The marionette divided people onto platforms of five, but it was still massively popular.
Triple thread divides the zerg into three, but you still won’t beat it zerging. You need organized groups with the 50 further divided into different teams including a condition team and reflect team.
The best reward in Escape from Lion’s Arch involved rescuing as many citizens as we could before the miasma levels reached max. We started off zerging that event like a train, but in the end, we were all working different areas of the city. The corridor I worked usually had about 6-8 people clearing it. Divide and conquer.
The Battle for Lion’s Arch only allowed 50 people to get the buff for each of the three holograms and all three had to be defeated to win. At the end it ended up in a five man instance.
The Queens Pavillion could be zerged and often was…but it was terribly inefficient and the worst way to get rewarded. Having ten guys on each boss, coodorinated, meant that they didn’t scale up and you could control the experience. Kill Boom Boom first and everyone else follows suit…giving you gold or sometimes silver reward much faster than you could ever get a bronze by zerging (which means you could run it more often).
Dry Top rewards are much much cheaper if you can get to tier 6, but zerging isn’t the way to do it. When I do it with my wife, we try to do the least popular events to try to push the tier higher, so the rewards are cheaper. Zerging isn’t the best way to do Drytop, but not everyone knows it.
Anet has provided us lots of ways not to zerg, and it’s up to us, the playerbase, to educated the rest of the playerbase as to why zerging in some places is simply bad.
only two of the things you mentioned are still in the game though
Don’t point that out.
Vayne actually believes that taking content out of the game might have been a good idea. Or at least that they couldn’t have known it wouldn’t be.
Never said it was a good idea. Did say I understand what Anet was trying to do with it. It was a gamble and it didn’t work out. Feel free to misquote me as much as you like, however. It’s entertaining how many people bring up my name, and then completely try to say something I didn’t say.
Had a nice time reading all your replies. How I miss GW1 lol
Haven’t played GW2 for about 9 months now (I believe). So decided to re-install it and see what changed. Sadly, there’s nothing really new? I still have 100% world exploration apart from a couple new Waypoints and points of interest :-/
Anyhow, what I miss most from GW1 is basically everything… The huge amount of skills for starters, it made your character truly unique. Not just another profession spamming the same skills over and over again.
The simplistic leveling and traiting system (a +1 here and +1 there…), why did GW2 go the route of putting all stats in the hundreds and even thousands?
- Diverse PvP
- Jade Quarry (and FA)
- The campaigns and story
- Dedicated missions
- Quests (ya, real quests)I actually miss playing a real support (my main was a monk in GW1). Albeit GW2 tried to do something different, it feels much less teamwork orientated.
Also, after playing GW1 from the start for like 2 years I took many breaks and returned multiple times. It was only like 6 years later that I received my first 100% exploration title and to this day I have still not seen every aspect of GW1. Whilst for GW2, I have 3 characters that have 100% exploration completed and feel like there is little for me to see ^_-
The new zones don’t count toward world completion. Just saying. They could add 100 new zones and your world completion wouldn’t change.
A lot of people like simpler weapons…I’m one of them. I don’t like most of the legendaries because I think they’re overdone.
You know, it’s not just seeing people are unhappy and thinking about doing something about it. It’s about specifically what to do about it.
So Anet first makes an update and people are unhappy about it. About half the time that happens, most people see it’s not that bad after all, and the problem goes away…because it’s not. The story I remember a dev telling was when DOA was first released in Guild Wars 1 and everyone said it was too hard, it was impossible and there were almost universal calls to nerf it. Same happened with Triple Thread and Tequatl. Lots of calls to nerf. But the community got through it.
Anet has to wait to see the longer term reaction, before they decide there really is a problem and then, they have to determine what the problem actually is (because it’s not always clear) and then they have to decide what to do about it.
There will be meetings, discussions, and you know, everyone may not be in agreement. Some people may want to change things one way and some may want to change it another way. These differences have to be worked out.
Maybe the fans are asking for something that ultimately doesn’t fit into whatever else is being worked on. Maybe there are changes Anet is willing to make, but other changes have to be made first.
For example, we know Anet is working on something for altoholics, but we don’t know what it is. Maybe that thing will make other changes unnecessary and so there’s no reason to work on some of the complaints.
Yeah, Anet should probably tell us more, but the fact is, every minute spent pacifying the forum (sometimes over very little) is another minute not doing something else. There’s been more communication on the forum, a single thread gets deleted that was all over the place and suddenly people feel Anet isn’t communicating again?
The need for constant communication from developers here is really over the top.
This thread is less to do with a desire for constant communication and more to do with some level of consistently good communication. I don’t want somebody here all the time answering every single post. That’s not what I said.
The fact is that we went for about three months with essentially no communication from the dev team whatsoever, to the forum being absolutely flooded with dev communication, and now we’re back to a trickle. Not only that, but if they say they’re going to answer something, they should answer it. If they say we’re going to meet up in game and play together, three weeks shouldn’t go by with no word about it. That is the issue, here.
And you can’t possibly be defending how they’ve “addressed” the traits thread, Vayne. You’re more reasonable than that. Saying, “We’d like your feedback now, because we’re going to start taking a look at this issue,” does not inspire confidence. Particularly not looking at how quickly they’ve managed to act on major issues in the NPE patch.
I just think they were busy with other things and they’d get to it. That what I thought. They already, as someone else pointed out, did make some changes based on some complaints. I never really doubted more were coming. I also dont think they know what they’re going to do to fix it yet.
Yes they could have said so more often. But I don’t think that would change anything at all, except let people know that they know. Anyone, however, who thinks they don’t know is living in a box.
There’s an easy way to find out if there are too few players for such content. Up the rewards by a significant margin in the Twilight Arbor Aetherpath and see how many people bite.
See there’s the rub. I know a lot of people who do difficult content just for rewards, and then, they get frustrated because they’re not having fun.
You can’t possibly tell me everyone who raided in WoW likes raiding. There were some, sure, but many people I knew raided for gear and couldn’t wait until they could stop.
So raising the rewards would simply pressure people to play content they don’t enjoy.
Anet has done a lot to break up the zerg mentality. I’m not even sure why people haven’t noticed. Take the last events created by Anet:
The Marionette
Triple Threat
Escape from Lion’s Arch
The Battle for Lion’s Arch
The Queen’s Pavillion
Dry Top
Each of these events are “zergable” to a point and then stop being zergable, particularly if you want the maximum reward. Zerging is the least efficient way to go.
The marionette divided people onto platforms of five, but it was still massively popular.
Triple thread divides the zerg into three, but you still won’t beat it zerging. You need organized groups with the 50 further divided into different teams including a condition team and reflect team.
The best reward in Escape from Lion’s Arch involved rescuing as many citizens as we could before the miasma levels reached max. We started off zerging that event like a train, but in the end, we were all working different areas of the city. The corridor I worked usually had about 6-8 people clearing it. Divide and conquer.
The Battle for Lion’s Arch only allowed 50 people to get the buff for each of the three holograms and all three had to be defeated to win. At the end it ended up in a five man instance.
The Queens Pavillion could be zerged and often was…but it was terribly inefficient and the worst way to get rewarded. Having ten guys on each boss, coodorinated, meant that they didn’t scale up and you could control the experience. Kill Boom Boom first and everyone else follows suit…giving you gold or sometimes silver reward much faster than you could ever get a bronze by zerging (which means you could run it more often).
Dry Top rewards are much much cheaper if you can get to tier 6, but zerging isn’t the way to do it. When I do it with my wife, we try to do the least popular events to try to push the tier higher, so the rewards are cheaper. Zerging isn’t the best way to do Drytop, but not everyone knows it.
Anet has provided us lots of ways not to zerg, and it’s up to us, the playerbase, to educated the rest of the playerbase as to why zerging in some places is simply bad.
Compared to GW1 GW2 is a bad joke. At the first anniversary the first expansion with major content, a new continent, 2 new classes, more pvp modes and a kittenload of new skills came out. And 1 Year later the next expansion came out.
In GW2 we have the same kitten, after 2 years with only 2 small new areas, no new classes, no real overworked pvp, barely new skills and a dumbed down new character experience.
After 2 years we took several steps behind the release of GW2. And many people already spend enough money into the gemshop for at least 2 expansions. But the only thing they get are some crippling so called “featuere patches” , some boring shop skins and a much worse server stability. So actually people are paying to get scammed.
Of all the things you’ve said, only thing I’d challenge you on is server stability. The difference between a true MMO and what was essentially a lobby game are myriad. Having 150 people on the screen at one time casting and moving while casting is a completely different set of issues than having 8 guys in your party, or even 12. Or even 24.
Because graphics are better, and because more people are on your screen, you can’t really compare the two games.
It’s like saying my bicycle gets much better gas mileage than my car. Well yeah. Different situation altogether.
I say staves too, but it’s a fact that staffs is also correct. I don’t prefer it, but that doesn’t make it wrong.
If you haven’t completed the level 10 story, it’s likely you’ll have to redo the early story, since you were in the middle of an arc.
It’s also possible you were wearing town clothes and have that checked off, even though you have no town clothes on your character. Look at the check box and make sure you’re not wearing an empty box of town clothes.
snip
The beginning of any entertainment usually requires them to in some way entice and hook you on the game. GW2 wasnt that strong in this before, and it is even worse after npe.
Aion started off with some big battle, you flying, some people getting killed and you losing your powers
FFXI started with a huge cutscene with some huge battle, introduces you to some intriguing facet of your starter area’s story, and leads you to various quests/stories in the area
champions online starts you with a city under seige stuff blowing up, and super heroes showing you the ropes
DC universe starts with city under seige (hmmm heard that before) getting your super powers, and fighting super powered opponentsIf you are trying to stop people from quitting within the first 15 levels (as npe seems to suggest) i think its a really bad idea to tell them to go do random, mostly pointless things for the first hour of your game.
Now, if the fighting systems, and other things were really attractive, just that experience alone could draw people in for the first hour, but its really not anymore. 3 skills for like 30 minutes. Enemies that sit down and die no matter what you do. usually in game design you make early AI still dangerous, but not complex. Like mario can still die from a goombah in the first screen.
the only thing good about the NPE is how fast it is to get done. The people who can play it a lil while and give it a bit may not leave, but these people were always gonna play it awhile and give it a bit. The people who got frustrated with swapping weapons and left, are just as likely to leave because the game seems to have no purpose/hook in the first hour.
I don’t know. I think, even with one skill the starting experiences, short though they are, are enough to promise more and bigger things. I think you underestimate them, having already tired of them.
The actually moving and attacking isn’t something you do in many MMOs, but again, it passes very fast.
I’m willing to wager that the minor differences in the starter zones aren’t going to turn most people off. Nothing in WoW was all that exciting (though I’ll admit Rift had a very good beginning).
Still, I just don’t see this as a major problem. Anyone who can’t sit still for half an hour isn’t going to be playing an MMO anyway.
half an hour, yeah, but it takes an hour to get to 10, and have the game tell you what your purpose for now is/why you are playing the game.
and honestly i have played many games for hours, there are some games i still havent played again after 20 minutes. I have read 1600 page books, and yet some other ones i never get past page 10. You got to bring people in with any entertainment medium. The irony is, i think the people who will stay are those who know mmos sometimes start slow, and are willing to give the game a chance inspite of not having much hooks early. And this exactly not the person for whom they needed to make this NPE
think about it, one of the complaints was people doing only their story, and not being high enough level for it after the first few. This kind of implies, they were attracted to their story, and now that part is totally missing for an hour of the game. For a true newb, the point of the game will seem like hearts, and honestly hearts are not one of the best parts of the NPE/story/world/lore imo.
I agree with you. I think a more exciting beginning would net more players…however, I also think that the game overwhelmed other players. And that’s the real problem there needs to be a balance.
Probably Anet should have unlocked the first three skills in the tutorial, but made the tutorials “more”. Not to say increased their size, but they’re exciting enough to have done more of the work on the hook…with three skills unlocked. Probably if you’re going with 1 skill, you have to make it fast.
And yes, hearts aren’t the best introduction to the game. On the other hand, it is very different from other MMOs, particularly talking to the scout and sort of explaining some of what’s going on.
The problem is, neither of us can really go back and play the game as a new player because we can’t erase what we know.
I think the game would have been beautiful enough to keep me playing just on that alone. It felt different than other MMOs and still should.
Time will tell whether this is successful or not.
What they did in Guild Wars 1, largely, was open the Shing Jea Boardwalk made for another event, and decorate a couple of towns, with some fireworks. Much much later on they added the Hound of Balthazar pet…but that was about six years into the game.
I think Guild Wars 2 should have done something like Dragon Bash for the anniversary, since the work is already done. It would be the same sort of thing.
And I definitely liked them dropping cupcakes in the open world. That was sort of fun.
But beyond the birthday cupcakes, there wasn’t anything unique done for the anniversary. They just opened up stuff that was done for the Dragon Festival.
Still cool though.
I would like to see a video of someone taking an hour to get to level 10. Because that has not been my experience. And yes, I followed the arrow.
I felt the grind at level 4-5 and then again at level 7-9 with the 2 new characters I’ve tried since the patch. Then again at level 12 after I finished the PS segment.
I’ve gotten to level 10 in an hour but I knew exactly what to do and where to go, including skipping hearts that are slower and how to go to another starter zone to get easy experience.
I’ve seen claims that someone has gotten to level 10 in 30 minutes by casual playing and while chatting with friends. I really don’t see how they do it myself and would love to see some sort of video or detail of how they did it.
It’s the luck of running into a couple of dynamic events. When I hit Queendale and that small farm, the bandit event was going on. I was like level 4 before I knew what was going on. It was really really fast.
My guess is those who happen to hit events will level significantly faster than those who don’t. You can know which hearts to go to, but that doesn’t mean you’ll hit events.
Different zones also have different amounts of events pretty much as soon as you walk out the door. I suspect Queensdale and Caledon forest won’t be quite as fast as Wayfarer foothills.
People have to realize that it takes about an hour now to reach level 10 if you follow that little arrow they give you. If it is your first time, most likely you’ll assume the first hour is to learn stuff and by then you’re level 10.
It’s not taking you days to reach level 10.
I’ve played very few MMOs where the first hour was exciting. The first hour of most MMOs is just learning where to go and what to do.
And people who’ve played for a long time forget how visually stunning the world is and how good the combat feels, even with only a couple of skills.
So you get a skill, 1 minute into the game you get a second and it’s probably 15 minutes after that you get a third. By that point, you’re just looking around the world and seeing what is there.
You see the empty slots as something to unlock. You see the other stuff that starts appearing and realize there’s more of it.
No one I know plays the first hour of an MMO and thinks, this is going to be the best experience of my life. Most of us have been trained to think that the first ten levels are sort of learning.
Nothing in WoW was all that exciting to me up until level 10 and WoW seemed to do okay.
The beginning of any entertainment usually requires them to in some way entice and hook you on the game. GW2 wasnt that strong in this before, and it is even worse after npe.
Aion started off with some big battle, you flying, some people getting killed and you losing your powers
FFXI started with a huge cutscene with some huge battle, introduces you to some intriguing facet of your starter area’s story, and leads you to various quests/stories in the area
champions online starts you with a city under seige stuff blowing up, and super heroes showing you the ropes
DC universe starts with city under seige (hmmm heard that before) getting your super powers, and fighting super powered opponentsIf you are trying to stop people from quitting within the first 15 levels (as npe seems to suggest) i think its a really bad idea to tell them to go do random, mostly pointless things for the first hour of your game.
Now, if the fighting systems, and other things were really attractive, just that experience alone could draw people in for the first hour, but its really not anymore. 3 skills for like 30 minutes. Enemies that sit down and die no matter what you do. usually in game design you make early AI still dangerous, but not complex. Like mario can still die from a goombah in the first screen.
the only thing good about the NPE is how fast it is to get done. The people who can play it a lil while and give it a bit may not leave, but these people were always gonna play it awhile and give it a bit. The people who got frustrated with swapping weapons and left, are just as likely to leave because the game seems to have no purpose/hook in the first hour.
I don’t know. I think, even with one skill the starting experiences, short though they are, are enough to promise more and bigger things. I think you underestimate them, having already tired of them.
The actually moving and attacking isn’t something you do in many MMOs, but again, it passes very fast.
I’m willing to wager that the minor differences in the starter zones aren’t going to turn most people off. Nothing in WoW was all that exciting (though I’ll admit Rift had a very good beginning).
Still, I just don’t see this as a major problem. Anyone who can’t sit still for half an hour isn’t going to be playing an MMO anyway.
People have to realize that it takes about an hour now to reach level 10 if you follow that little arrow they give you. If it is your first time, most likely you’ll assume the first hour is to learn stuff and by then you’re level 10.
It’s not taking you days to reach level 10.
I’ve played very few MMOs where the first hour was exciting. The first hour of most MMOs is just learning where to go and what to do.
And people who’ve played for a long time forget how visually stunning the world is and how good the combat feels, even with only a couple of skills.
So you get a skill, 1 minute into the game you get a second and it’s probably 15 minutes after that you get a third. By that point, you’re just looking around the world and seeing what is there.
You see the empty slots as something to unlock. You see the other stuff that starts appearing and realize there’s more of it.
No one I know plays the first hour of an MMO and thinks, this is going to be the best experience of my life. Most of us have been trained to think that the first ten levels are sort of learning.
Nothing in WoW was all that exciting to me up until level 10 and WoW seemed to do okay.
I enjoyng this game, PvE , PvP , WvsW. All of contents are fun.
and I enjoyed all of mini dungeons, jumping puzzles, they are so great.But now, we forced to do something with unlock system which created by ANET.
I invited some newbies in this free trial weekend, and I tryed to enjoy some contents with them, but they can’t see vistas(unlock vista on lvl10), could not come PvP areas(unlock on lvl23), almost could not use weapon swaps ! wtf.It was great game I thought, I doing dodge, jumps, combos, weapon swaps, and change to death-shroud,and so on, many systems are fun, great.
But now we can’t enjoy untill we unlock lvl 80s.
I don’t know how anet thought about this, but its terrible.
please rollback this unlock systems before.
A bit of misinformation there. You can view vistas from level 2. They don’t show up on your map until level 10. If you were with them your friends could indeed view vistas.
You can get to PvP from level 2 if you want. All you have to do is know the shortcut. You could easily tell your friends the short cut. Only the icon on their screen is locked out until they level.
Weapon swaps don’t happen until level 12…however, they used to happen at level 7. You get to level 12 now in about the same time as you used to get to level 7.
Maybe before you complain, you should test what you’re complaining about. Because right now, all you’re doing is spreading misinformation.
I think server pride is a thing of the past and I think people should start getting used to it. There was a thread in the WvW forums floating the idea of doing away with servers in WvW too.
It would have the advantage of making the game a completely serverless game.
Your identity, instead, would come from your guild…or your alliance (which was another suggestion floated in the same thread).
There isn’t going to be a home server place, because Anet is moving away from home servers, and I think, personally, this is a good thing.
Instead of having people who can’t join my guild because they’re not on my server and sometimes we WvW, we can have guilds that aren’t locked down and they can just recruit anyone.
Instead of having friends who join the game and can’t get on Blackgate or TC, they can just join our guild.
Servers are a thing of the past. Some day they will be completely relegated to the past.
Not to mention that forum community is smaller than actual player base…
ANet doesn’t release the actual numbers and we in the forums have no way to determine it…
OK so if Anet doesn’t release the numbers. How can you honestly say it’s a small percentage? Some people simply just don’t say anything and take what’s fed to them. Not everyone is going to say what’s on there minds.
I come from a guild in GW1 one of the top 5 largest in it. Most all of them transitioned over to GW2. Currently about 5 are active in GW2. Most of the guild moved on to Archeage. They didn’t even bother with the forums as they know what’s said and has been said falls on def ears. Other people just keep playing cause they can’t afford other games. Leaving GW2 as there only outlet for Mmo gaming, since it is BTP.
So stop saying the “complainers” are the minority until you see factual numbers!
Just like any government it only takes a few to represent what thousands want!
And not one single person from my guild has left of the game for Archeage. See how easy that is. Maybe for hard core PvPers who like open world PvP as a main game type, it might work but I’m not sure why anyone would think most Guild Wars 2 players would want that.
Take the NPE.
Colin came straight out and said why it exists. People choose not to listen or not to believe. Listening to what someone says (and seeing that it’s probably reasonable) isn’t making assumptions. It’s believing something someone is saying.
Group 1: They dumbed down the game because they think we’re idiots.
Group 2: They altered the game based on tests that they ran that said it kept people playing longer.I’m having trouble picturing a meeting where devs say to each other, you know, our players are idiots, let’s make the game dumber. It’s not likely to have happened. People who are offended by the NPE are simply taking offense at something that was a logical business decision.
More like: someone at Anet pulls out some data that shows GW2 has only a 20% conversion rate (ie: 80% stop playing the game at or before level X), so the objective becomes: how can we make this higher?
What are some likely reasons why the conversion rate sucks?
1) the game is too hard/confusing
2) the gameplay just isn’t fun/differentiated/interesting enough
3) some of the mechanics/art is a major turnoffAnet primarily chose #1, which is why the NPE was all about dumbing the game down a lot. They couldn’t possibly have data that this is the major reason as that data only becomes available after the changes are made so it was an educated guess on their part (possibly combined with some anecdotal data from paid testers).
Given that my personal experience of the NPE involved close to zero confusion, you can understand why players in general were a bit shocked at the extent to which the NPE was dumbed-down.
Personally, the closest I came to giving up the game during my NPE was discovering downed state for the first time (I still hate it), and the inflexibility of the UI (I hate not being able to rearrange especially the combat-related frames, i still dislike the GW2 UI for this reason).
Anet didn’t just “decide”. And I don’t believe any company would. They test. That’s what they said they did. That’s what’s logical to do.
The forum goers are saying it’s bad because A or B or C. Anet is saying we tested several solutions and this solution provided the best results.
Why is that so hard for people to accept?
Pretty much confirms what many of us have been saying all along, that it doesn’t seem like the developers have the wheel but that the game is being developed by the shareholders which is never good. Just look at what happened to Archeage, nothing at all like the Korean version by the time Trion “westernized” it.
Nowhere did she mention shareholders, and I doubt that’s what she means. Shareholders don’t run companies, management teams do, who are answerable TO shareholders. Many shareholders have no expertise at all and just hold shares to make a profit.
The bottom line is that all the company has to do is show a profit in excess of expectations for shareholders to be satisified. They make decisions based on making a profit like ALL businesses.
Unfortunately 11c happened. I was home schooled because of my attacks.
Also I didnt say anywhere how he should get better.
He made poor excuses for his behaviour. I offered the well know alt-f4 rather than afking.
he indirectly insulted me. I directly confronted him with my opinion.Also I routinely tell sick people get over it already. and you know what. It works.
I think you mean to make a better comparison. Perhaps use kitten. sick is quite a general term.
Telling sick people to get over it already works? Maybe you should go offer your services to hospitals. Just imagine the money they’d save! Of all the things I’ve heard people say on this forum, this is close to the most unbelievable.
Anything else I could possibly say to this would get me infracted.
Guild Wars 2 has two less professions now than Guild Wars 1 did it it’s whole life. That’s 20% less professions for those counting.
Guild Wars 2 has five times the races Guild Wars 1 has ever had. That’s 500% more races.
Guild Wars 2 has more variety in this manner than Guild Wars 1…and did so from launch.
Holy crap I want to smack you for even trying to make this seem legit lmao.
Everything you just said you should be ashamed of XD
GW1 is by far the most adaptable game when compared to GW2. You can’t compete with every class being able to combine with another class AND their weapons. If your idea was to say races actually matter then you flopped. Race skills are a joke and have no merit to them at all.
I guess you think more people played Guld Wars 1 than Guild Wars 2. You’d probably be wrong about that.
See the kind of experience Guild Wars 1 offered was very different. Of course it had more build variety and more skills. And?
It had less quests and missions. That’s a fact. You can debate it all you want, but you’d be wrong. Demonstrably wrong.
I’m not ashamed of my opinion ever. And you saying I should be isn’t going to make me ashamed.
Now I come here and have to listen to people defend this system? I mean really? How about we get some consistency between materials, currencies, collections, and random crap that gets stuck in your backpack.
Did you really expect everyone to sympathize with you? I’m sorry that you’re frustrated, but really, you should have just read the item description.
What lack of consistency is there? Currency are those in your wallet, nothing more nothing less. Materials are those in the bank storage; these are usually stuff that are used in a lot of the traditional crafting disciplines. Other stuff that act like currency, such as the pristine fractal relic and the WvW tournament tickets and those festival tokens are stuff that stay in your backpack.
And use never means to deposit.
I do sympathize with the OP. I’m sure we’ve all done careless things from time to time and got burned by it. That’s enough for me to sympathize.
Chris Whiteside has stated, numerous times, that they’re in the process of hiring more personnel to work on the forums. So, hopefully, things will look up soon and he (and a couple others) won’t be the only ones speaking on the forums.
Raise your hand if you think they should hire me
ducks and runs lol
Go to options then content guide and choose the option disable personal story from the pull down menu.
I’m sure the devs have said they’re looking into it.
Yes they have. In fact they made changes to the new trait system in response to player feedback.
Some yeah, but it’s only a down payment. More needs to be done.
I agree.
My point was that Anet has demonstrated that not only are they listening, they are acting based on what they hear, and they are telling us so. Pretty much the definition of interactive communication.
Absolutely a valid point. I’ve always thought they listen…they just don’t point it out every time they listen.
Edit: Maybe they need to start doing that.