Guild Wars 2

Khisanth.2948:

Octovine … maybe

AB? uh certainly doesn’t look like it to me.

on the other hand octovine doesn’t seem to overlap with much else, at least not for the upcoming one so that would be making it a scapegoat

OriOri.8724:

I happen to think that ML is definitely draining people off of other maps in a bad way sometimes, leaving more instances of VB, DS, and TD with not enough people who know what they are doing to finish than would otherwise happen if ML weren’t so popular.

Seems a bit unfair to blame Octovine for people being clueless in other area of the game.

Not really. People go and talk about where the profit is. I have people in my guild who have beaten the Ocotovine dozens of times but have never even attempted TD. Why? Because people dont’ talk about it or go there. And part of the reason, is that it’s not as profitable.

Once any one area of the game becomes more profitable than any other, particularly if it’s not that hard, it’s where people will be (reference the Silverwastes). Not everyone is going to research stuff on reddit or Dulfy. The go to what they hear about and what they learn and known. It’s a comfort zone.

If TD was more profitable than it is, then that’s where people would be.

And people who have time for one meta or two metas a night, they’re going to wait until AB rather than leaving their comfort zone.

But if everyone was doing TD and talking about TD and it was more profitable, that’s what people would be doing.

I see people in bloodstone fen quite frequently, but I’ve never looked for a squad. I just do the events that pop up. I’m not sure why you’d need a squad to farm there. Just watch the events being called out in map chat.

Zeyta.3519:

Vayne.8563:

The problem is, the things that they fix can break again after they fix it. They fixed the moa event, but now it still stalls sometimes again. They fixed the Ogre Wars event more than one time, but eventually it breaks again.

There are fixed that get broken by changes and there are new bugs introduced by different changes. If you’d worded your complaint without seeming to imply (and this is backed up by what you said elsewhere) that people who work in the MMO industry are simply lazy, sure, everyone agrees, bugs should be fixed. The problem is, every time you fix one bug two more appear. Nothing is as simple as you make it sound.

I’ve watched the devs at Anet for a long time, and I don’t believe they’re lazy or not trying and I think anyone who suggests thats’ the case is themselves lazy, looking for a way to express their displeasure at something without trying to understand why it is the way it is.

I worked in the computer industry for a long long time and I’ve been on the receiving enough of people who insisted they knew my job better than I did. How repairs could have a faster turnaround time or how things could be more efficient. Yet each time such changes were implemented, they never really made a difference to the bottom line. Repair times generally remained the same, customer satisfaction generally remained the same, because the people suggesting the measures being suggested only see the problems, but don’t really understand the industry…and then they blame the industry.

There is no magic bullet to fix what’s wrong with the way MMOs are generally delivered because if there was, someone would have figured it out by now. All MMOs have bugs and all MMOs suffer the same types of complaints on their forums, because they all are starting from the same place…limited time, limited budget, too much competition and not enough time to do everything they’d really like to do.

Hope you have a happy holiday.

Okay, Vayne, just stop talking now lol. You still don’t seem to understand what I was saying. I get that you worked in the computer industry and have a grudge and angst against complaints from customers. But that still doesn’t change the fact that there are more and better ways for things to be done than they are now. Just because you can’t see that, doesn’t mean everyone else is wrong and you are right.

This is an exact quote from you:

“- All Story Missions in the GW 2 base game need to be checked for bugs. I’m occasionally finding NPC’s stuck after spending 5-10 min on a mission and have to restart.”

All story missions means all story missions. That’s what you said. So I’m pretty sure I understand what you’re saying.

I can also paste the parts where you use words like lazy if you want, but what’s the point. You’re denying something you actually said.

I’ve brought up my own complaints about the game from time to time, when I feel they they’re reasonable. I don’t think the things you’ve said are reasonable, not all of them certainly.

You can say I don’t understand, but then you’d have to show me how you mean All story missions NEED to be checked for bugs.

How can that sentence mean anything other than that I am saying it means?

IndigoSundown.5419:

BrettM.9062:

My interest is more in science fiction than fantasy, but such examples of “heroic fantasy” as I can think of (e.g. Glory Road or Piers Anthony’s A Spell for Chameleon or even Harry Potter) usually seem to feature heroes starting out in humble circumstances, often marginalized by their societies, before discovering their true destiny. They were often used as doormats by those around them initially. That’s always seemed like a trope of the genre to me.

Granted, the protagonists of these stories themselves are not generally oafs (though Harry Potter did act out a bit when he got into his teens), but Braham is hardly the protagonist of the GW2 story. Feed him at the back door if you must.

Can I send him home and replace him with someone whose behavior is not going to detract from the important business of saving Tyria? No, I can’t. If he is going to act like a five year old throwing a tantrum, I should be able to give him a time out.

Well no. You can’t because he’s not listening to you. Even if that was a choice of dialogue, his actions would be the same. lol

The problem is, the things that they fix can break again after they fix it. They fixed the moa event, but now it still stalls sometimes again. They fixed the Ogre Wars event more than one time, but eventually it breaks again.

There are fixed that get broken by changes and there are new bugs introduced by different changes. If you’d worded your complaint without seeming to imply (and this is backed up by what you said elsewhere) that people who work in the MMO industry are simply lazy, sure, everyone agrees, bugs should be fixed. The problem is, every time you fix one bug two more appear. Nothing is as simple as you make it sound.

I’ve watched the devs at Anet for a long time, and I don’t believe they’re lazy or not trying and I think anyone who suggests thats’ the case is themselves lazy, looking for a way to express their displeasure at something without trying to understand why it is the way it is.

I worked in the computer industry for a long long time and I’ve been on the receiving enough of people who insisted they knew my job better than I did. How repairs could have a faster turnaround time or how things could be more efficient. Yet each time such changes were implemented, they never really made a difference to the bottom line. Repair times generally remained the same, customer satisfaction generally remained the same, because the people suggesting the measures being suggested only see the problems, but don’t really understand the industry…and then they blame the industry.

There is no magic bullet to fix what’s wrong with the way MMOs are generally delivered because if there was, someone would have figured it out by now. All MMOs have bugs and all MMOs suffer the same types of complaints on their forums, because they all are starting from the same place…limited time, limited budget, too much competition and not enough time to do everything they’d really like to do.

Hope you have a happy holiday.

That’s a great example of a straw man argument you’ve got there. Comparing a film to an MMO. Let me tell you how that goes.

Lucasfilm makes the first Star Wars movie. Then they release it, and it’s done. When they make the second Star Wars movie, and they release it, they don’t have to go and change code in the first Star Wars movie. And when they make the third, they don’t have to go back and change what’s in teh first two.

MMOs are not movies and they can’t be treated like movies, and no amount of saying they should be will make it viable.

I’ve played every instance in this game, most likely multiple times. After the personal story I’ve played every instance in this game many times on many different professions. There aren’t enough bugs in those stories to make it worth going back and testing every story, which is exactly specifically what you’re saying should be done.

Spaghetti code doesn’t exist in movies, but it does exist in programming. As a program moves forward, it gets harder and harder and takes more and more time to go back and unravel what’s come before. You don’t have to believe me. Anyone who’s worked on any major projects will tell you it’s true.

If Anet did go back and test and review every single story instance, they would end up having less people working on new content and new features. I don’t have to prove it because it’s simple logic.

You’re the one who suggested this is what they do. I seriously suggest you talk to people who work in the industry.

I can think of two or three stories they’d have to work on, but going back and checking them all? It’s just a bad idea.

I’m sorry that you feel there’s not enough proof in what I’m saying. But I’ve proven through playing to my satisfaction that those stories don’t need that kind of testing, with the possible exception of Heart and Minds and maybe one or two others.

The fact that they don’t block progress and the fact that you believe companies have budgets for it gives me all the information I need to comment.

You don’t really need proof if the logic is so straight forward.

Westenev.5289:

AliamRationem.5172:

Doam.8305:

HoT maps have many more chains due to the lack of hearts

There also gated off as it still irks me that Verdent Brink doesn’t have a single leylines or even updrafts that can reliably and routinely take you to the canopy level without event chains.

HoT gets easier with mastery but mastery is built around altoholics grinding for a single toon is mindnumbliy boring. It should’ve been locked per toon with a reduce exp grind to compensate. HoT is need of a qol patch that it obviously won’t be getting I know people who quit, took a break like myself, or took their one toon through HoT story and never came back.

Are you sure? Perhaps more careful exploration of the area will reveal some things you failed to notice up until this point? Here are a few hints:

From Shrouded Ruins waypoint, head west up the stairs to the top of the plateau. There’s a bounce mushroom seemingly leading to a dead end. Or perhaps it isn’t a dead end after all?

There’s also a wrecked airship next to Mellagan’s Valor waypoint. Have you seen the view from the top of it? No? You might want to use that updraft tucked into the rocks at the top of the trailhead to get over to it and do some more thorough exploration.

Finally, if you were to go to the top of Faren’s Flyer waypoint, you might notice a large vine stretching northward. Why not see where it leads?

Trust me. You can reach every point on that map without using the choppers.

As far as I am aware, this is only almost correct information. The top of the patriarch den (or whatever its called) can’t be accessed by day – the up-drafts simply don’t go high enough until nightfall.

I’m not sure if this has been fixed in a later patch, however.

You don’t need to reach the top to get the point of interest. You can absolutely get that point of interest during the day and have been able to for a very long time.

You go into the corridor beneath the platform, which you can get to with updrafts. It will give you the POI.

Zeyta.3519:

Vayne.8563:

I could answer a lot of these. While some are good ideas, others are unrealistic or wouldn’t improve the game from my point of view.

snip

I’ll just pick a few other things that I don’t agree with.

I don’t want to have to go through a conformation box every time I send or delete a mail. It would annoy me.

Daily rewards are fine, because if you do three of them, you get two gold. That’s a lot more than we used to get. It’s easy money. Individual dailies otherwise are usually too easy to increase rewards.

Log in rewards are fine. While I agree tomes of knowledge aren’t anything exciting to log in for, you’re getting them free. And you have to log in to get them to get to mystic clovers and laurels, so working as intended. The idea to long in rewards aren’t supposed to make you rich. They’re supposed to get you to log in to compensate, especially for people who don’t have a lot of time. I guess you can see how a level up tome might be useful for someone who doesn’t have time to level a new character, but would still like to play.

What I get from a lot of this is this is my idea for the perfect game, which you’ve said, but it’s really just a log list of stuff you want, without thinking of the ramifications to the game as a whole.

On the other hand, everyone wants a build save feature. That was a solid suggestion. It’s also a suggestion that’s been made time and time ago, for almost four years. Anet knows about it and has talked about it. And they are working on one. It’s just not their first priority.

Finally your comment on end games seems to lack, in my opinion, understanding of the genre. I don’t play Diablo III and I wouldn’t like Diablo III end game. It wouldn’t keep me playing. No MMO can possibly create enough quality content to keep people playing. Even WoW, the game with the most players that charges a monthly sub can’t make enough content to keep everyone playing. That’s why grind exists in MMOs. To keep people playing. Other people buy a new WoW expansion play for a period of months and leave until the next expansion. It’s business as usual.

In in ideal world, you’d be right in asking for some of this stuff, but at the end of the day gaming companies have time budgets, money budgets and other things that make much of this unrealistic.

Just like some parts of my posts, your post is also heavily based on opinion and personal desires. Not of what is necessary or possible.

It’s also based on a lot of laziness, and a lack of imagination and intelligence for the game to be the best it can be. MMO’s will continue to have the same problems and fail to grow for exactly this kind of mindset from players that aren’t capable of leaving their outdated ways, that will accept whatever is put in front of them, and can’t be bothered to imagine the modern form of the MMORPG.

Your post also lost the majority of its credibility with this:

That’s why grind exists in MMOs. To keep people playing.

You made a huge leap of assumption about my endgame, claiming its somehow about continually creating content when in fact the point was to eliminate or reduce that.

As far as your excuse for gaming companies, that is also the point, that their priority and focus is directed in the wrong way. Which is why it needs to be improved.

If this is what you want your MMORPG to continue to be, then enjoy it. But do not pretend archaic ideas and a lack of vision is actually a benefit to the game or its future.

Actually I believe you’re incorrect in your assessment.

That is to say, you believe it’s possible to completely troubleshoot an MMO and I say it’s not. Not even a little. Not even a bit.

Companies like Microsoft have buggy programs with much larger budgets than your typical MMO. The games don’t run on huge budgets and making new content is always going to be more important than fixing bugs. Unless a bug is game breaking or breaks progress it’s not likely to be a priority. Because there are a lot of bugs.

You see this as an excuse. I’m going to guess you don’t work in the software development sector.

Why do all MMORPGs have bugs? Is it because every single company is lazy? Do you think that’s reasonable?

I think it’s more reasonable to believe what you’re asking for isn’t possible within the time and budget of most MMOs.

We know stories are tested, because we know there’s a test crew. We’ve hard about it. We’ve heard from people in QA in the past. Stuff is tested.

Not every bug shows up in testing and some bugs don’t even show up until patches go live.

Talk to some software engineers if you don’t believe what I’m saying.

AliamRationem.5172:

Doam.8305:

HoT maps have many more chains due to the lack of hearts

There also gated off as it still irks me that Verdent Brink doesn’t have a single leylines or even updrafts that can reliably and routinely take you to the canopy level without event chains.

HoT gets easier with mastery but mastery is built around altoholics grinding for a single toon is mindnumbliy boring. It should’ve been locked per toon with a reduce exp grind to compensate. HoT is need of a qol patch that it obviously won’t be getting I know people who quit, took a break like myself, or took their one toon through HoT story and never came back.

Are you sure? Perhaps more careful exploration of the area will reveal some things you failed to notice up until this point? Here are a few hints:

From Shrouded Ruins waypoint, head west up the stairs to the top of the plateau. There’s a bounce mushroom seemingly leading to a dead end. Or perhaps it isn’t a dead end after all?

There’s also a wrecked airship next to Mellagan’s Valor waypoint. Have you seen the view from the top of it? No? You might want to use that updraft tucked into the rocks at the top of the trailhead to get over to it and do some more thorough exploration.

Finally, if you were to go to the top of Faren’s Flyer waypoint, you might notice a large vine stretching northward. Why not see where it leads?

Trust me. You can reach every point on that map without using the choppers.

And if you happen to have the Lost Precipice Guild Hall, you have a fourth way up to the canopy, which is the updrafts right outside it, when exiting into the zone through the portal.

@Orpheal, I appreciate the advice, but I’m not addicted to the game. Or rather, I’m not particularly addicted to any one thing. Whatever I’m doing at any given time, that’s what I’m doing. When I was writing, I did nothing but write. When I’m into a TV series, I binge watch the whole thing.

One guy I know called in the manic defense. You keep your mind so busy you don’t have time to think about anything. I’ve done it long before Guild Wars 2 existed, and I don’t really see it stopping any time soon.

But I still get all the stuff done I need to do in life, so it’s not an issue for me. Still, I appreciate the advice.

I suffer from chronic pain, and I agree distraction is a fantastic thing. Glad you’re getting some relief, even if it’s not actually relief. Believe me I get it.

Khisanth.2948:

Vayne.8563:

I disagree with this. I enjoy puzzles more that have to be solved (hence the name puzzles) rather than just making hard jumps.

The sign of a really good jumping puzzle to me, is not ignoring the puzzle part. I loved the Silverwastes JP and I had no idea where to go. Took my wife and I 3 hours to solve it the first time, without resorting to a walk through. It was brilliant.

None of those jumps were particularly difficult. What made that for us what the puzzle.

I don’t like it does not equal badly designed.

You seem to have conveniently ignored the fact that the SW puzzle’s checkpoints are clearly marked by a stacking buff that remains through logout.

Those properties makes it very easy to see that you have missed a checkpoint or that particular checkpoint is not registering.

A random disconnect won’t obliterate all your progress.

Fall into kitten somewhere with no way of getting back out in the SW puzzle? Just take a wp and continue from your last checkpoint(for a price).
Fall into kitten somewhere with no way of getting back out in the Chalice?
Redo everything.

The path of the SW puzzle is also marked. Maybe it was unintentional but the water tower looking things that give swiftness are placed along the path so they show where you need to go even if you don’t know how to get there yet.

Nope haven’t ignored anything. Finding the flags is one thing. Knowing you’ve been through them already is another.

The Chalice of Tiers should absolutely tell you when you’ve hit a check point. That I agree with completely. However it has nothing else to do with what I said. Hell the first time I went through the puzzle, I didn’t know what that marker was, didn’t know to look for it and didn’t know how many to expect anyway.

OriOri.8724:

Tom Gore.4035:

My only complaint about Chalice of Tears (what an appropriate name, by the way) was that it was many times almost impossible to determine the next direction to go. They should have placed the checkpoints so you could see them from the central area. You’d immediately say “that’s where I need to get next, but how?” instead of “ok, what now?”

Figuring the next way to go is part of the harder JP’s, but I think it was just overdone on this one.

Other than that, mainly a very enjoyable and at the same time, extremely frustrating experience. Just like a good JP should be. Just like any good puzzle should be. The feeling when you finally get through is that much better.

This is, in my opinion, the mark of a really poorly designed JQ. The overall path should always be clearly marked, and the hard part should be doing the jumps, not finding out where you need to jump next.

If they wanted to make this a truly difficult JQ they could just as easily made the path much clearer, but made it timed by giving you an effect that slowly killed you from the heat of the volcano. Either throughout the entire JQ or only on certain parts

I disagree with this. I enjoy puzzles more that have to be solved (hence the name puzzles) rather than just making hard jumps.

The sign of a really good jumping puzzle to me, is not ignoring the puzzle part. I loved the Silverwastes JP and I had no idea where to go. Took my wife and I 3 hours to solve it the first time, without resorting to a walk through. It was brilliant.

None of those jumps were particularly difficult. What made that for us what the puzzle.

I don’t like it does not equal badly designed.

I could answer a lot of these. While some are good ideas, others are unrealistic or wouldn’t improve the game from my point of view.

I almost stopped reading after the test every instance comment in the first place, because instances have been tested. I don’t know if this is your first MMO or not, but they all have bugs. New code, different people coding over time, make it almost impossible to fix all bugs, even though some bugs do get fixed. If every instance was tested and perfect for ever, content would take three, four, five times longer to come out. It’s not realistic to think all bugs in story will be gone, particularly when you consider that some bugs, maybe even most, aren’t easily repeatable. And some things people call bugs aren’t bugs, but a lack of understanding.

I’ll just pick a few other things that I don’t agree with.

I don’t want to have to go through a conformation box every time I send or delete a mail. It would annoy me.

Daily rewards are fine, because if you do three of them, you get two gold. That’s a lot more than we used to get. It’s easy money. Individual dailies otherwise are usually too easy to increase rewards.

Log in rewards are fine. While I agree tomes of knowledge aren’t anything exciting to log in for, you’re getting them free. And you have to log in to get them to get to mystic clovers and laurels, so working as intended. The idea to long in rewards aren’t supposed to make you rich. They’re supposed to get you to log in to compensate, especially for people who don’t have a lot of time. I guess you can see how a level up tome might be useful for someone who doesn’t have time to level a new character, but would still like to play.

What I get from a lot of this is this is my idea for the perfect game, which you’ve said, but it’s really just a log list of stuff you want, without thinking of the ramifications to the game as a whole.

On the other hand, everyone wants a build save feature. That was a solid suggestion. It’s also a suggestion that’s been made time and time ago, for almost four years. Anet knows about it and has talked about it. And they are working on one. It’s just not their first priority.

Finally your comment on end games seems to lack, in my opinion, understanding of the genre. I don’t play Diablo III and I wouldn’t like Diablo III end game. It wouldn’t keep me playing. No MMO can possibly create enough quality content to keep people playing. Even WoW, the game with the most players that charges a monthly sub can’t make enough content to keep everyone playing. That’s why grind exists in MMOs. To keep people playing. Other people buy a new WoW expansion play for a period of months and leave until the next expansion. It’s business as usual.

In in ideal world, you’d be right in asking for some of this stuff, but at the end of the day gaming companies have time budgets, money budgets and other things that make much of this unrealistic.

Orpheal.8263:

No, everyone can easily create a character of choice, warp then via PVp lobby to Lioans Arch and Warp from there to every other town to go meet up with their partners that play an other race.

You dont have to play as the same race to play together from begin on, unless you want to play also together the same tutorial area, then you have to do that.

Actually it’s much easier now, since the first waypoint in each zone is automatically unlocked as soon as you create a character. You no longer have to go through Lion’s Arch.

And those the OP clearly has a paid copy of the game, we don’t know if his wife does. Free to play people can’t go through to LA until level 35, so the waypoint would then be the only way for free to play players to play together.

Doam.8305:

HoT maps have many more chains due to the lack of hearts

There also gated off as it still irks me that Verdent Brink doesn’t have a single leylines or even updrafts that can reliably and routinely take you to the canopy level without event chains.

HoT gets easier with mastery but mastery is built around altoholics grinding for a single toon is mindnumbliy boring. It should’ve been locked per toon with a reduce exp grind to compensate. HoT is need of a qol patch that it obviously won’t be getting I know people who quit, took a break like myself, or took their one toon through HoT story and never came back.

Not sure why you think there are no reliable updrafts that take you to the canopy in Verdant Brink. I can think of 3 ways to get to the canopy at any time of the day or night cycle. I can complete the map, every POI and waypoint and with a couple of friends hero points, completely in the day, without ever taking a chopper.

If you’re on a US server, I can show you at least three ways to get to the canopy without a chopper, that are always available.

Edit: There are four ways if you count the one out of the Lost Precipe Guild Hall.

The story isn’t that hard. Really. It’s also not that buggy. Those who say its’ bugged or hard will have a hard time proving it now, since it was fixed shortly after launch and Aurene doesn’t get stuck anymore. I’ve done the story easily a dozen times and I’d be happy to help someone through it.

You have to do one story once, to get one character through, but after you do it on one character, every other character can just walk through the gate. What’ you’re talking about is 20 minutes one time to unlock the new zone on every single character.

There are quite a few issues with this game, but this isnt’ one of them.

I’d be willing to help people through this story who can’t make it on their own, if they’re on a US server.

The complaints about Hearts and Minds is one thing, but I haven’t experienced a single bug in this story since they fixed Aurene a couple of weeks after the patch.

SaskiaElite.8132:

DeanBB.4268:

Since you didn’t state what you would want gold for, it’s hard to answer directly.

You don’t get a lot of coin from mobs, but you can salvage and/or sell the drops. Many complain there are too many drops/too many containers of drops. I personally don’t grind for anything and my gold hovers around 1000. Plenty to gear up a new level 80 or whatever.

I’d say it more depends on your goals. If you are crafting something, you can work to collect what you want. Or, if you want it sooner, you buy the materials. Or some combination of the two.

You mentioned PvP, but I’m not sure exactly why. There are reward tracks there that award even ascended gear now. Again, what are your goals?

Thanks for reply, pvp is all about fast reactions against enemy players and keyboard button destroyer. I simply cannot press 10+ buttons to get a single kill in very short time.

I just want to get fair amount of gold so I can do basic stuff

You’d be right if there weren’t pvp daily rooms where people go to get cooperative dailies without fighting each other. There are also other “PvP dailies” you an get without PvPing at all.

If you have badges of honor from achievement point chests, as an example, you can use them to buy something in a guild hall that that gives you a daily on the days that daily is active. It doesn’t even involve entering PvP.

Inoki.6048:

Also, one very important thing:

I came across many nice folks in-game with various disabilities who admitted some mechanics, like such jumping puzzles, really give them a headache and worse! I’ve played with a guy who e.g. couldn’t dodge properly because of his disability so imagine such person to beat a jumping puzzle like this one.

I bet most of you haven’t thought about this and what kind of a challenge it must be for folks with handicaps if it can prove very difficult for healthy adults.

But you can’t make a game just for people with disabilities. There are blind people who can’t play the game at all, but posting about it is pointless. If you made every challenge doable by every single person, people who want harder stuff would be frustrated as well.

I agree that this isn’t the best designed puzzle, but there’s almost nothing locked behind this puzzle. There is a mastery point, but there are many mastery points I don’t have, and I’ve hit max level mastery. You don’t need that mastery point. It’s absolutely 100% not necessary to complete anything.

There are two mursaat tokens locked behind getting to the end, but a mesmer portal to the end will get you access to those. You don’t need the checkpoints to get the mursaat tokens.

Anet has released easier and harder jumping puzzles. Let me ask you this? Has a mesmer portaled you to the top of the Mad King’s Clock Tower?

My guild did this as a guild, as a guild event and most of the people interested were able to get through it. It did take us a couple of hours, but we had half a dozen mesmers with us, who worked together and we got through it.

It’s not undoable. It was meant to be hard. It’s like Fractal level 100.

I also play games to relax and don’t always love difficult content. I have a bad shoulder and had to give up on PvPing recently because of the sheer amount of it required to get the legendary backpack. It’s a reward I can’t get do to a medical problem.

But it’s MY problem, no one else’s. And no one should be punished for it.

It doesn’t surprise me that Guild Wars 1 wasn’t particularly profitable. First game from a new start up that was always considered a niche game is unlikely to drive any real profits. I didn’t have the numbers and I wasn’t going to look for them.

But as someone who spent many years researching, it was easy to spot the flaws in the argument that if Guild Wars 2 did what Guild Wars 1 did it would be more successful. It was always possibly something that could happen but there was no real case for it.

It’s just a pet theory that one person feels so strongly about that it seemed self-evident. Unfortunately my history with research left me more doubtful. A good percentage of things most of us believe to be true really aren’t.

I’ve done this mission solo on at least five professions, including a druid. It’s not only possible, it’s not that hard.

Two circles spawn. A smaller circle for Aurene and a larger circle a few seconds later for you. Get into the white circle. Wait for the skill to appear over your five skill. Click the skill. That’s pretty much it. Then the enemy can be damaged.

Do it a couple of times and you’re done.

Not really sure that the problem is.

Devata.6589:

Behellagh.1468:

Vayne.8563:

You say having a less intrusive cash shop is the answer, so if expansions cant’ be made as quickly, how are you planning on paying rent, insurance, electricity and 300 plus employees?

That’s because @Devata believes at the core of his being that ANet “could” do it.

I might be wrong. We do however know that their current approach was good for the first 1,5 year or so and then started to drop off more thenthey had hoped.

Which doesn’t mean they can do it. They’re already said how long it takes them to make a single map, let alone a whole expansion. You’re just not willing to change with the times. You think what’s possible ten years ago in that climate is possible now. I find it extremely unlikely.

Elsewhere you talked about facts. The fact is, I didn’t come into this forum making a substantial claim, you did. Ergo I don’t need a single fact to refute something I believe to be untrue. And I have given many facts, that you ignore.

It’s a fact that the industry has changed. That there’s more competition and more free competition. Unless you’re willing to say this is not a fact.

It is my strong belief, I’ve certainly seen it mentioned enough, that making a game today is far more expensive than making on 10 years ago, at least as far as a AAA MMO goes. It may not be a fact, but just the price of voice acting in games alone now has gone through the roof.

It is a fact that we simply can’t know how Guild Wars 1 would do today. It’s not possible to know.

The problem is, you’re the one stating “facts” and drawing conclusions from those facts. In drawing those conclusions you’re ignoring:

1. The fact that the landscape has changed dramatically in the ten years since Guild Wars 1 was released.

2. That games are more expensive to make.

3. That a number of complaints have been address on these forums by large numbers of people that have nothing to do with the cash shop, and even the grind is only a minor complaint compared to many of the other complaints we’ve seen.

4. That Anet themselves have said straight out they can’t make expansions as fast as they made them for Guild Wars 1.

5. Fact: All four Guild Wars 1 titles had less quests than Guild Wars 2 had dynamic events at launch. I’ve said it many times. Because we were told by Anet that you need at least three times the number of DEs over quests, since you can’t guarantee people will run into them.

Now if I posted some stats and drew conclusions, I’d be required to defend those conclusions, but I’m not the one making claims here. I’m saying your claims have no evidence at all. Your evidence is low sales numbers. There’s no way to draw a why from it. No way at all. There’s no reason I should have to prove that, it’s self-evident.

Obogo.7948:

Ye ill probably get it from G2A or would codes from those sites work here in the UK?

Thanks for the help =)

Buying from G2A is a risk. You may get a good code. You may get a code bought with a stolen credit card. G2A will guarantee the code, but Anet will still ban your account if you get a bad one and you’d have to start over completely from scratch.

It’s really really not worth the risk.

From my point of view, the OP only really tells half the story.

Guild Wars 1 was originally envisioned as a PvP centered game, with a PvE tutorial. However, as the game progressed, it changed drastically to the point where the last two expansions did very little for PvE.

I’m guessing more people PvE’d than Anet had expected, even as end game, or less people by percentage PvPed.

When Anet launched Guild Wars 2, they didn’t really talk about PvP or even WvW for a year, during which they heavily promoted PvE. They even said at one of the early conferences that this was an intentional decision, since Guild Wars 1 was largely known as a PvP game and they wanted to show that that wouldn’t be the case with Guild Wars 2.

But why would they want to do that, if PvP was so much more popular in Guild Wars 1. The answer is that I don’t think it was. I think more people ended up PvEing and Anet changed their Guild Wars 1 plans for that. Certainly After Factions there was far less upgrades to PvP than there were to PvE.

At the end of the day, a franchise name is a franchise name because it sells the product. There are several Ultima games that were all different. Might and magic also had heroes of might and magic, which was another genre of game altogether.

I think the continuation of the lore and story necessitated having the same name.

I mean Star Trek and Star Trek Deep Space Nine are also very different, but they’re set in the same Universe.

I’m not so sure waiting for the next expansion is the way to go. Expansions contain masteries which have to be leveled to continue. I’d rather have the current expansion and get what I want done in it before the next expansion comes out. Anyway, you can get the game discounted at places like DLGamer, who often have it on sale, even if Anet doesn’t.

First and foremost, if you’re on a us server, contact me in game, I’ll be happy to help you get through it.

That said, some challenges in these games are meant to be repeated until you get them and I know it’s possible because I had to repeat them to get them.

Updrafts are definitely not impossible to see, because I see them. But don’t look up. Look on the platform. they’re really not updrafts at all, they’re more like spouts and they’re quite clear. You might be looking too hight.

The best trick during the gliding phase is not to try to dodge at all. There’s a vine that stick out over the arena with an air spout next to it. If you can find it, you might went to check out a video so you don’t have to see it while trying to do it the first time, you can land on the vine in complete safety and wait out that wave.

Again I’d be happy to help you through it in game.

Free to play players have no choice but to play the core game, so plenty of people.

It’s funny that people think being in multiple guilds is something that only happens in this game. In other games, you can make different characters and they can each be in different guilds. Much the same as this, but this at least is out in the open.

I prefer this system.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Someone should tell Devata that long-term goals are a staple of the MMO genre. It’s against MMO developers’ interests to give players the shiny as fast as they want. At least with cosmetics, the grind is a choice. I’ll settle for that over RNG-based grind, even in sub games. I remember trying for a tanking sword in a WotLK dungeon in order to be an off-tank as a secondary build. Despite ~40 runs, the thing dropped once and the drop was ninja’d. I’d much rather farm gold by doing whatever the kitten I want in GW2 to that.

Then there’s the thing where developers determine how much effort is cost-effective. The OP seems to believe that all of the cosmetics that are in the store would be in the game under his model. I’m considerably more realistic. I doubt (very much) an XPac-only business model would offer any more items via play than we currently see, and that’s even if XPac-only would generate comparable revenue, which I doubt.

It’s not just Devata, really. People who feel really strongly about something, often inflate in their mind how many people feel the same. It’s why hard core players believe the game can’t survive without them. It’s why casual players believe HOT had lackluster sales because of them, it’s why dungeon runners think that things went south because they weren’t catered to, and it’s why Devata, who has very strong feelings about grind and cash shops, believes this game isn’t doing well. The stronger you believe something the more likely you are to believe that others must feel the same way. That’s just human nature.

I’ve made that mistake myself many times in the past, but I’ve learned from it. I now realize for every person who feels like I do, there are at least half a dozen who feel differently.

Devata feels strongly so the people who dislike the grind and gem store are obviously going to cause the game to take in his/her mind. But this isn’t about one person. It’s about human nature.

The odds are the lackluster numbers of the last two quarters has less to do with any one reason, and more to do with a myriad of reasons. Those who think like Devata, whatever percentage that is, will have some affect. Dungeon Runners who left when HoT launched, will have some affect. Small guilds who can’t afford to upgrade guild halls will have some affect. People who think HoT is too hard or too grindy will have some affect.

All together, those groups have a tremendous affect. It’s not any one thing. It’s that Anet managed to alienate large swathes of people, combined with a content drought, combined with pricing the expansion too high, combined with not giving an extra character slot.

No one thing is the reason HoT didn’t do as well as expected. They are contribute.

Behellagh.1468:

Vayne.8563:

You say having a less intrusive cash shop is the answer, so if expansions cant’ be made as quickly, how are you planning on paying rent, insurance, electricity and 300 plus employees?

That’s because @Devata believes at the core of his being that ANet “could” do it.

Yeah, i know he/she does, but Anet has said they can’t. Devata’s reasoning is they did it before, but for all sorts of reasons, a modern day expansion is going to take a lot longer and cost much more money. That’s the long and short of it.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Don’t like the gamble box? Don’t buy keys, whether you get the gems via cash or gold. I would dearly love to see this business practice come to an end. Pity that it would take consumer restraint to make this happen.

I think the game would probably hurt from a financial standpoint if the keys were removed. It would mean having to be more obnoxious in other ways. At least the keys are a choice and not everyone buys them.

Actually I finally have a reason to buy keys now after a very long time without any reason. The wardrobe unlocks have been really good for me. I have pretty much all the cheap skins that I want, and this is a great way for me to fill in missing items without actually having to pay for them. I’ve gotten a number of pretty cool black lion skins unlocked. I don’t need the staff or sword, I just need the skin.

But yeah I’m not convinced this practice can go away without seriously hamstringing the game at this point.

@Devata

If Guild Wars 2 had a cash shop like they do in WoW, there would be no Guild Wars 2. It would be gone. It would be dead. Because not every player spends money in the cash shop, we know that from specific posts, but everyone who plays WoW pays a sub. So you either charge everyone every single month, or you have a cash shop to make up the difference. Those are your options and those are your only options.

So let’s say that Guild Wars 2 had a sub and a less intrusive cash shop. That would mean it would have to get $15 from every player every month. How did that work out for TSW, SWToR and ESO? ALl of them were forced to go free to play. Every single one of them. TSW never really recovered. By starting with a subscription., they chased away a good percentage of their potential player base.

SWTOR had a terrible start and ended up firing a large percentage of their staff, either a third or half, I keep confusing the number with TSW. ESO probably did a bit better, but still underperformed and was forced to go free to play.

AFAIK there are no games that don’t charge a sub that don’t have a more intrusive cash shop. You think expansions can cover that, but it was far faster/easier to make a Guild Wars 1 expansion than it was to make a Guild Wars 2 expansion. We know this because the devs have said so.

Just the idea that Guild Wars 1 was largely instanced and content was developed for exactly x amount of players with no scaling and no random people wandering by makes it a much easier game to develop. That it was pathed made it much easier to develop. Guild Wars Prophecies has 209 quests at launch, and one starting area. Guild Wars 2 had five starting areas, five races and over 1500 dynamic events, plus far more of it was voiced, which is very expensive.

Anet could not put out an expansion every year, cash shop or no cash shop. They’d have to mostly depend on box sales and for today’s that is simply not going to be enough.

You say having a less intrusive cash shop is the answer, so if expansions cant’ be made as quickly, how are you planning on paying rent, insurance, electricity and 300 plus employees?

Amaimon.7823:

fishball.7204:

Ya know most rich people don’t hoard mystic coins to manipulate the market, most would just sell it a high price and invest it elsewhere for easier money. Mystic coins as a market isn’t that profitable at all and you guys are complaining about Mystic coins when just last week or 2 they were 68s!

The only reason they went up so much is because of winters presence… if you’re smart you’ll wait until Wday is over THEN make it when the coins are 68s again…

This isn’t some kind of natural inflation of mystic coins prices, this is obviously a demand spike so quit complaining or next time maybe plan ahead and buy the mystic coins beforehand.

That’s BS and you know it.
It’s not the wintersday presence that’s driving the costs, and they weren’t 68s just last week.

Early december ‘15 it was ~15-20s, after that, in the course of 6-7 months it climbed to 80s, until it reached its current steadline in end july (75-80s) and now since july is has stabilized a bit, but it’s still slowly climbing.

The problem is: more collections and recipes enter the game requiring more mystic coins. More mystic coins do not enter the game. the price of a single mystic coin increases. more people hoard their coins. Hoarded coins and more recipes mean a self-inducing cycle of increasing rarity

But you’re assuming more people are hoarding coins to sell them, as opposed to more people saving coins because they plan to make legendary weapons, which is what I do.

This isn’t a case of TP barons manipulating the market, because everyone gets the same income of mystic coins. Nor do I believe most players even think about the tradiing post as a way to make money. And if you’re a TA baron, there are much better ways to make money than mystic coins.

No, most people who are saving there are either unaware of their value (trust me I’ve met more than a couple of people who just deposit all mats in their bank and don’t realize that they’re worth something), or they’re saving them for crafting themselves.

I don’t believe most players are disciplined enough or thoughtful enough about the economy to hold on to something for months when they need gold now.

If you’re on a US server, hit me up in game, I’ll give you a tour of what’s new, and answer your questions directly.

Vyrulisse.1246:

Mylerian.9176:

MY question is why waste your time? Not really worth it unless you still the mastery stuff……

Because it’s a fun map? I play it because I enjoy it. Don’t really care about the rewards honestly.

Or unless you need crystalline ore for HoT legendary weapons, or unless you need specific components for elite specialization ascended weapons, or maybe you just like the meta event and think it’s fun. My guild used to run a lot of dungeons, but this allows more of us to join, and it’s still more casual than a raid.

Djinn.9245:

Waiting for the usual suspects to reply “DS is fine, people complete it all the time.”

I’ve certainly completed DS a very very high percentage of the times I’ve attempted DS. That’s not to say crashes don’t happen, and it’s not to say I don’t agree with the OP, because it is frustrating to crash in anything and lose your progress, but it doesn’t change the fact that it’s really not that hard to get onto a DS map and beat the event, even if it can be stressful at times.

I don’t ever remember not getting into a map that makes the attempt when I’ve tried, and though we have had a couple of unfortunate fails due to people not knowing what to do, or one lane that couldn’t keep collectors down, in my experience DS is quite doable.

I have no doubt it could be improved, but the way you paint it belies the number of people that do it all the time, and there are plenty of us.

Kelly.7019:

Cynova.7406:

OriOri.8724:

Cynova.7406:

Two days of ABing will solve this problem. You don’t even have to do anything if you feel lazy. Get them coins son.

This is such a horrible response.

“I know that MC are in a bad spot, so instead of trying to change that I will just perpetuate the high price by farming ABML and buying them off the TP, supporting the hoarders who keep the price artificially high”

Astralporing.1957:

Cynova.7406:

Two days of ABing will solve this problem.

AB doesn’t generate mystic coins. If anything, it makes the problem worse.

If you guys can’t see that the TP rules all, you are new to this game. And who rules the TP? Them rich folks that hoard stock and manipulate prices to death. Don’t believe for one moment any of you can change that unless you are one of those rich trolls.

The price of the Mystic coin will continue to rise and it’s very unlikely you will convince enough people to change it. All we can do is hit the best casual income source in the game and right now that’s AB meta. You won’t change the price. Ever. So put your time to better use and just do the meta, get your coins, and make your stuff.

When it gets incredibly bad, and I mean 7g a coin kinda bad, then Anet might finally decide to man up and fix their broken economy instead of thinking it was a good idea to leave it in the hands of the players hoping no one would take advantage of it. Just another idea they are outdated on.

I don’t know if this is true but i would imagine the majority of players have 1 account. I’m sure there are those rich trolls that have multiple accounts and hoard , hoard, hoard. i wonder how this affects the rest of us, and if this was intended when designing the game or became more on an unintended non bannable exploit that Anet is okay with because more accounts sold is more money for them? or something along those lines. i won’t get into details.

Okay this is an unwarranted attack.

First of all, this whole “rich trolls” thing is nothing more than a conspiracy theory. People claim the price has gone up because rich people manipulate the market but they don’t really have any different way of getting coins than poor people.

I have multiple accounts, and I use those accounts for log in rewards, but not to control the market. I use them to farm mystic coins and laurels for t6 mats, which I use to make legendaries. The log in rewards easily pay for the accounts for me.

A lot of people who hoard are hoarding because they plan on using the coins, rather than hoarding them to drive the price up. In fact, pretty much anyone who does high end crafting needs to hoard them.

Why don’t I sell my mystic coins? Because I’d have to buy them back to make the stuff I want to craft.

The only way people get mystic coins is one per one event once a day, and getting log in rewards, of which everyone gets the same amount, if they actually log in.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

I’m wondering why the OP feels he can’t play HOT zones the way he plays normal tyria zones, because that’s how I play them. Well all of them except Dragon Stand.

I have found it to be physically impossible to play HOT zones, in their entirety, the same way as I played core Tyria zones pre expansion.

Not really sure I understand that. How is it physically impossible.

This is how I play maps in core. I go onto a map, I run around, I harvest, I do events as I come upon them, or skip the ones I don’t like.

In Gendarran Fields, they upped the difficulty of one of the main events, and I often skip it because I’m not interested, but there are plenty of other events around.

So how is it impossible to play the zone the same way?

I’m wondering why the OP feels he can’t play HOT zones the way he plays normal tyria zones, because that’s how I play them. Well all of them except Dragon Stand.

I’m not sure why any guild cares about rep anymore. Mine doesn’t. Half the people rep at any give time, some people only rep sometimes, some people rep all the time. Does it change anything at all? Not one thing.

As a guild leader I don’t find myself looking at guild chat and worry about who’s repping or not, and I’d certainly never kick anyone out of the guild for not repping.

In my opinion any guild that kicks people out for not repping at this time isn’t worth being part of in the first place.

morrolan.9608:

Sykper.6583:

Vayne’s correct.

Cash Shops or variants of ‘Paying for extra content’ are the future of current gaming. I would even extend it outside of MMOs or Mobile Games, some recent shooters have iterations like Loot Boxes that have a similar reward system. Currently playing Titanfall 2, I can get random cosmetic rewards on a whim, but they recently introduced new ‘Prime’ Titans that I can pay a bit of cash for that give me an alternative, different cosmetic look to my Titan which carries different voiceovers and executions.

We are getting away from Subs folks.

I’d dispute that. In fact I would say the PC market is somewhat pushing back against the practice. The decline in GW2, the severe pushback against the current swtor xpac which is blatant price gouging in this vein.

Its all leading to more niche games which do away with these anti consumer practices. Enhancing this will be Amazon’s platform which will make it easier and easier to develop online games with good netcode and synergies with social media.

You can dispute it if you like but I’ve not seen major boycotts against cash shops. I’ve seen groups of people who don’t like them and I don’t believe they’re some kind of majority in any way shape or form. Because younger people are being trained that cash shops is the norm. They’ll simply just wait you guys out. There’s no reason not to.

My kids aren’t 15. They’re in their 20s. They have plenty of friends and they all expect to spend money on games after they buy them. Pretty much like I expect to overspend on popcorn and candy when I go to a movie. That’s a complete ripoff to me but hasn’t changed in my lifetime.

There’s always going to be resistance to change, but change still occurs.

Devata has been saying all along this game would do better if it abandoned the cash shop and just made expansions, with no real evidence of it. I’m saying there’s no real evidence of it.

Do I love cash shops? No, I don’t. But I do acknowledge games are harder/more expensive to make than ever, and they have to be funded. So I look for games were cash shops aren’t the game itself, and you can play and buy stuff when you like…games like Guild Wars 2.

And by games I’m pretty much just talking about MMORPGs. Boxed games don’t generally have a cash shop, but then, I play them a lot less and end up paying more per hour anyway.

morrolan.9608:

Vayne.8563:

And even subscription games now generally have cash shops. You’re fighting a losing battle here and your main points are they used to be able to do it and that you don’t like it.

It’s not a strong platform.

Well then devs have to move away from using game systems that only exist to keep people playing and p2w type items in the cash shop and make good repeatable content that players will want to keep playing and buying purely convenience and cosmetic items in the cash shop.

MMOs have always used game systems that exist only to keep people playing at least themepark ones did. Even if that mechanism was having a rare boss spawn once every three days randomly. They didn’t make that mechanic to make the game fun. They made it to keep people playing. It’s just how things are. Today there are other ways to keep people playing.

The more competition there is, the more you have to compete.

I agree with this. I don’t think a cool glider skin that can’t be sold on the TP should be locked behind RNG.

#Feelsbadman

@Devata

There was a time when people didn’t have vaccinations and lots of people died. It wasn’t that companies didn’t believe in cash shops, so much as cash shops weren’t at that time shown to be an efficient way to make money. There was never a time when companies didn’t want to make money, at least, no time I can think of.

You know, I’m an older guy. I remember a lot of things about gaming from the beginning of games, and there have been a lot of changes to gaming over the years. I remember a time before there were hint books but I’d never say there was a time companies didn’t believe in them. They hadn’t thought of them yet. I remember before hint books, Sierra had a 900 number hint line that you could call and pay by the minute. Game companies didn’t used to not believe in stuff.

It used to cost less to make games, they weren’t as big a business and there was less competition. Anyone who starts a sentence was there was a time is probably going to be wrong. People always talk about how great the old days where, while ignoring that fact that there was plenty wrong with this days too, or that things about those days were hidden behind closed doors and now we’re out in the open.

It doesn’t matter if you personally like cash shops or not, because there are too many people who simply don’t care. Pay to win is a different matter, but cash shops in and of themselves, it’s normalized now, whether or not there was a time when they weren’t.

And this industry changes very very quickly. There was a time when people thought castor oil was a good treatment for being sick but I wouldn’t want to go back to it.

Point 1. Games are more competitive now.
Point 2. Games cost more to make now.
Point 3. Games out now have to compete with other games.
Point 4. Games have serious investors now who need to be fed.

It would be interesting to see the entire game budget for Guild Wars 1 and compare it to the entire game budget for Guild Wars 2.

It doesn’t matter what happened 10 years ago, because there’s simply no guarantee the same formula would work today. And as it stands, you’d have to not only be willing to take the risk it will work, but you’d have to convince investors it would work.

And even subscription games now generally have cash shops. You’re fighting a losing battle here and your main points are they used to be able to do it and that you don’t like it.

It’s not a strong platform.

Yes, ultimately they made this easier to get than the shoulders, which I think is good, because a lot of people complained about the shoulders.

Some people want hard work that they have to do specific content, sometimes you have to do something you have to farm gold (which anyone can do at wintersday) and buy something.

Surely last year having the shoulders, beyond most casuals, was something that annoyed more people than this.

People should put themselves in the shoes of others a bit more. I don’t like raiding but I understand why it exists in the game and who it was made for. Last year was a grindy christmas gift than many didn’t like. Anet listened to those complaints and changed it up.

Just because you liked it last year, doesn’t mean changing it to something this year is something that’s worse for the game as a whole. I got the shoulders last year and I see how I can get the infusion this year.

The difference is this year I have a chance to get it just by opening gifts. That’s something I couldn’t do last year.

@ Devata

Except for HOT which many people complained didn’t offer content for them. There are people who play neither the HOT zones, nor raid. So if they were in small guilds, what did HOT offer them? The revenant and an elite spec?

To that end, WvW players didn’t think HoT delivered that much either.

Expansions, as I’ve said many times, don’t guarantee a lot of content for everyone. They simply guarantee some content.

There’s also the issue of price for the content that’s available which a lot of people seemed to have an issue with.

Just having an expansion is not the answer. In fact, some MMOs have been killed by expansions.

maddoctor.2738:

Sykper.6583:

Currently playing Titanfall 2, I can get random cosmetic rewards on a whim, but they recently introduced new ‘Prime’ Titans that I can pay a bit of cash for that give me an alternative, different cosmetic look to my Titan which carries different voiceovers and executions.

It’s also worth mentioning that Titanfall 2 DLCs are completely free (at least so far) and there is no paid season pass, unlike how it is for other popular shooters. They expect to make money through those cosmetic rewards and offer their new gameplay content for free.

Which to me looks exactly how the LS1 of GW2 was. Free content/gameplay updates with lots of cosmetic-only paid updates. We’ll see how it goes and if in the end it’s better than the paid DLC approach. (paid DLC = paid expansions)

But the point I was making is a lot of us older gamers are uncomfortable with cash shops, because we didn’t grow up with them.

Devata played a game on computer 10 years ago which had a cash shop, but it was far less intrusive. The game wasnt’ centered around the cash shop. My point has always been times and expectations change. The cost of making games has changed. The competition has change. Players expectations have changed.

Saying I don’t like the cash shop because a ten year old game didn’t center as much around the cash shop and was still successful is irrelevant, unless you can prove that game with the same strategy would have made it today.

The problem is, there aren’t more and more computer game players there are less, because more people play games on consoles and now tablets and phones. So the computer game market tends to contract over time, but you have more product pulling people more ways.

The age of the MMO isn’t starting, it’s slowing down. There are probably less people over all playing a greater number of games, all expecting more and more for their dollar, which isn’t likely to happen.

People today come into the game and many of them ask, right away, how much do I have to spend to be relevant. I’ve heard the question a lot of times.

And they’re relieved to find out that the cash shop doesn’t sell power…at least many of them are.

This whole cash shop issue is simply a non-issue except for a few of us older veterans who remember how it used to be.

As for the grind aspect, it exists in every MMO and even existed in Guild Wars 1. The idea that any company can make content fast enough to satisfy the content locusts was crazy. I mean today we have sites like Dulfy and everyone runs through stuff a lot faster. It’s easier to find information today than it was one Guild Wars 1 launched. We play games differntly. There are more videos, more people sharing information. It’s not some kind of underground like it used to be.

The grind has to be there to keep certain types of players happy. There’s a fine balance to it, which Anet is constantly adjusting. HoT was too grindy when it came out, but it’s a lot less grindy now.

But there’s no way to make content fast enough in today’s gaming market to satisfy people without that grind, so it’s a lose lose situation. You’re either a themepark MMO with grind, or a sandbox MMo with less content and usually less players.

Substance E.4852:

Vayne.8563:

The cash shop is pervasive now. There are people who want to spend money to get stuff rather than play the game. My sons are both like that, because that’s the environment they grew up in.

They see a new game, they buy the game and then spend money on downloadable content or in the cash shop or whatever. That’s how they’re trained to think.

Not having the ability to do that could hurt the game, because people will have less options. As nuts as it sounds, not everyone wants to play a game they’re playing.

They’d rather take short cuts with cash.

That sounds like a personal issue your kids have that you’re projecting onto others.

Yes no one plays face book games and spends money on gems. Candy Corn Crush didn’t make a ton of money. Farmville didn’t make a ton of money. It was all just my kids. Keep telling yourself that.

Or maybe it’s endemic to the way the world works now and that’s why more and more games, like Archeage, and BDO are putting more and more emphasis on cash shops, in many of the same ways. People don’t copy the formula if it doesn’t work . At the very least you should realize that.

Sounds to me like you’re not paying attention to what’s actually been going on.

Okay, first with the trinity thing, it only exists in raids. There is currently one raid in the game. Dungeons are still there but Fractals are a whole lot easier to get into than they used to be, and they’re quite rewarding.

I play almost exactly like you play. I solo or duo at lot, while bullkittenting with my guild in voice chat, or guild chat.

I play through the HOT content just fine that way.

There are times, like in the core game, where you come up to a temple event and if there aren’t a lot of people there, it can get quite stressful.

I guess the real difference is, in the core Tyria world, you didn’t even really have to know anything about your profession to succeed most of the time. That’s changed some in open world HoT. You have to know something about your profession and something about your enemies.

Elementalists with the elite spec are definitely more powerful than the elementalist you played before, even unnerfed.

Revenant is a hit or miss for a lot of people but it’s generally considered more of a team/buff player. It’s definitely not my favorite solo profession.

Condition damage has changed making it more viable, so condition rangers, for example, are a thing now.

At the end of the day, no one can know whether it’s worth coming back for you.

Devata.6589:

Vayne.8563:

Devata.6589:

@Just a flesh wound.3589 (and forum-bug-fix in one)
After my last comment to you I did a little google-search and found something I expected no to be available. But it was.

A chart that shows what the average user spends on a free to play game in a year. It even includes Guild Wars 2.

https://mmos.com/editorials/whats-a-free-to-play-user-worth
https://cdn.mmos.com/wp-content/gallery/editorials/MMO-ARPU-table-mmos.jpg

That is $3,88. (And that was a lot, GW2 was third with that number)
Now lets say that you sell an expansion once every 1,5 year and price it at €50,- (What is reasonable for a true B2P game). That means you could do with 1/8th of the player-base to earn about the same amount of money. (3,88 * 8 = 31,04 * 1,5 = 46,56).

However you can make a better game because you don’t have to mess with the games because you try to get people to sell stuff in-game. That means that overtime you are likely to lose less people (as we did see with GW1). So you can maintain that healthy income over a longer period of time.

Better game, and over-time better income. If the game is any good obviously.

For the millionth time, Guild Wars 1 had virtually no competition. You keep going back to it. Guild Wars 1 did it so we should be able to do it today.

There are a lot of things that happened ten years ago that couldn’t be repeated today.

Let me ask you this. When Guild Wars 1 was lauched, how many multi-player fantasy games existed that didnt’ have a monthly charge?

Yeah and all those million times I answered the same.

Yes back when GW1 launched most other similar games where P2P and so GW1 was unique with it’s true B2P model. However today most modern MMO’s are using the cash-shop model (some with, some without having to buy the game) so GW2 would still be pretty unique if it used a true B2P model.

The fact that it uses the cash-shop model makes it less unique on that frond, what means it has a lot of competition on that frond.

“Let me ask you this. When Guild Wars 1 was lauched, how many multi-player fantasy games existed that didnt’ have a monthly charge?”

Probably similar to the number of multi-player fantasy games that do not have a cash-shop or B2P model today. Very little to none.

So that model would still make is pretty unique. It was a selling point back then and would be a selling point now.

You’re still missing my point. Let me put it differently.

Guild Wars 1 existed at a time when there were about half a dozen multiplayer fantasy games. Maybe there were 6 and it was the only one that didn’t have a sub.

Today there aren’t six. There aren’t 12. There are probably 50 mmos, maybe more, most of which are free to play.

You do research and so understand the difference between buy to play and free to play and cash shop and what not. Not everyone does. In fact, I’d wager most people don’t.

So for you, the buy to play cash shop thing is a thing, because you’re thinking about it.

However, if a person born into this world today has experienced Facebook games and MMOs with cash shops, if they started with say Runes of Magic or Maple Story, when they come here, this is heaven to them.

They expect a cash shop. Even sub games have cash shops. But here the cash shop isn’t pay to win, and in many other games it is.

The cash shop is pervasive now. There are people who want to spend money to get stuff rather than play the game. My sons are both like that, because that’s the environment they grew up in.

They see a new game, they buy the game and then spend money on downloadable content or in the cash shop or whatever. That’s how they’re trained to think.

Not having the ability to do that could hurt the game, because people will have less options. As nuts as it sounds, not everyone wants to play a game they’re playing.

They’d rather take short cuts with cash.