Guild Wars 2

DaShi.1368:

Vayne.8563:

Not buying the expansion gets you very very little say in the future of the game, because there’s no way anyone is going to know why you specifically didn’t buy it…even if you post here, it’s just a drop in the proverbial bucket.

And when you buy the game, there’s no way to know why you didn’t play one content over the other. Even if you post here, it’s just a drop in the proverbial bucket.

Not buying the expansion get you the most say about the future of the game. The game is never going to change because of one person. These are the people Anet wants. This is who they made all the changes in the two years for: to get people who weren’t buying the game to buy it. They reached out to those people. Those people had Anet’s ear. The people who did buy it, the veterans, they got shafted because Anet already had their money. Now you are trying to use twisted logic to convince people to make a terrible decision. That’s why I call it shameful.

But again, you’d prefer to make this about me than about what I’m saying. Not sure why you can’t just discuss opinions instead of making it personal, but that’s okay with me.

No, you writing five out of six paragraphs about you is making it about you. Don’t blame me for that.

When you attack people, they defend themselves. It’s a normal human reaction. I’ve shown your posts to more than one person and they agree you’ve gotten personal. Not sure why what I say makes you so angry but that’s on you not on me.

I’ve learned a lot from this game over the years, but not just this game, all MMOs. I’ve learned if you don’t buy expansions you’re basically left behind. I’ve learned that not every change that’s made to a game is a change you’re going to like. And I know for a fact, not a guess, that most copies of virtually all games are sold in the first 90 days that game is for sale. I know this from running a computer store for a very very long time. It’s the same with books too, btw, and I’ve been involved in that industry.

It’s a fools errand for a game to try to get all the people that didn’t buy their product, rather than to keep people who did buy it. You can try, of course, but realistically, you’re never going to match that first huge influx of sales, no matter how long you go. This is generally how games work. This is based on my own real life experience.

I’ve learned that I have more of a chance changing any system from the inside. The trick is to get support from people playing, not people who aren’t playing. People who aren’t playing will never be counted by metrics that all companies use to make decisions.

When I ran a store, I didn’t base my decisions on people who didn’t shop there, because in that way lies madness. I could try stuff randomly and some would work and some wouldn’t but real change came from what customers said.

At the end of the day we have a different of opinion here, nothing more.

But I don’t really know how anyone who has played MMOs before can believe that not buying one is somehow going to make the game better for them long term.

I don’t really see why you think the statement doesn’t make any sense. It’s clear to me.

It’s not an exploit, but it is reminscent of an exploit and it has started to affect the in game economy, particularly the price of ectos, so they’re going to do something about it at some point, when they get to it.

What’s not to understand?

DaShi.1368:

Vayne.8563:

snip

Then they buy the game, if they want the LS. What you are saying is that they should buy the game no matter what. Like it or not, just buy it. With that logic, people should just buy everything all the time. This is the argument you are making.

It’s a matter of moving forward with the game, or being locked into the core game forever, with very little new content. It’s not just about liking or not liking.

snip

The situation would be vastly different if there were so many good MMOs out there, but from the point of view of many of us there aren’t. And yeah we get this game has it’s flaws, but compared to the alternatives, this is it…for many of us.

There are other alternatives to playing MMOs. No one has to play an MMO. No one should buy one MMO that they don’t like just because the others are arguably worse.

So not buying the expansion, like or or not, puts you in a kind of limbo. You’re just going to sit with what you’ve been doing all along. Very little new, and very little you can participate in.

No it doesn’t. OMG, life is not an MMO. Most especially life is not GW2. I’m a bit concerned that your argument here isn’t able to parse the difference.

If you’re okay with other MMOs out there, it’s less of a problem but not everyone is…in fact, I’d wager many people aren’t.

Again, life is not an MMO. People don’t have to buy a game they don’t like just because other games like it are arguable worse. WTF?

snip

No. You do something else. Do you really need an MMO to live? This is getting deep into crazy territory.

You still try to change the game to the game you want, which some people did. It’s why the April update happened.

Which a lot of people didn’t like. The only truly effective way to get what you want in a game is to vote with your wallet. If the developer isn’t creating the content you want to play don’t buy it. If they are, buy it.

But I’m relatively certain it happened as much from internal metrics (from past comments we know Anet relies heavily on those) rather than complaints on the forums from people who didn’t buy the expansion.

I’m relatively certain that you are wrong and that you have no data to back up what you are saying. Because this wouldn’t be the first time you claimed something that you couldn’t support and just expected us to believe it.

Again, because this has to be said, life is not GW2! It is not an MMO. We will all be fine if we never play another MMO again. It’s a choice of entertainment. If it is not entertaining, then we shouldn’t pay for it.

Just because you’ve hooked this game up to your veins and need it to survive, doesn’t mean the rest of us need to invest in your folly. If you love this game so much, throw all your money at it. Leave us out of it.

First of all, I haven’t hooked this game up to my veins. Anyone at all who knows me knows that whatever I do, I do fully. Doesn’t really matter what it is. I’ve always been like this. Some call it driven. You can call it what you want. I’ve done it with everything I’m into for my entire life. If I stop playing this I’ll get into something else, which is fine. I have no problem with it. This game has existed for four years. I promise you I had hobbies before this I was just as committed to and I’ll have hobbies after that I’m just as committed too. Doesn’t change a word about what I’ve said though.

My comments are based more on my experience with business than my love of this game. If you’ve even been paying a bit of attention you’d have noticed that I have my own complaints about the game lately. Of course, never let reality interfere with a good personal attack, I guess.

I’ve learned lessons playing this game too. I thought the devs of this game wanted the same game I wanted from the beginning. I later learned that was not the case. However, no MMO developer has ever made the game I would make, and if one had, I’m not sure it would be successful anyway.

Developers make games for a range of players. This game was made for a range of players. Some changes I like and some I don’t like. Saying that this is all I do is demonstrably wrong as anyone who actually knows me will tell you. I play this game less now than I used to, but I still believe what I’ve said.

Not buying the expansion gets you very very little say in the future of the game, because there’s no way anyone is going to know why you specifically didn’t buy it…even if you post here, it’s just a drop in the proverbial bucket.

But again, you’d prefer to make this about me than about what I’m saying. Not sure why you can’t just discuss opinions instead of making it personal, but that’s okay with me.

DaShi.1368:

DoctorDing.5890:

If you guys could stop arguing and call a truce then this thread could get back on topic. Just agree to disagree.

The lesson I learned from HoT was to carefully read the weasel words of the pre-purchase offer. If I had paid more attention then I would not have been so surprised when I didn’t get an extra character slot. Once bitten….

Which is all I’m saying. Buy the game if you want it. If you don’t like what’s being offered, don’t buy it.

If only it were that simple. But it’s not. There’s an equation. For example, a lot of people might like the Living Story, which is part of what comes with the expansion. They can’t do the living story without owning the expansion, whether they liked the expansion content or not.

It’s a matter of moving forward with the game, or being locked into the core game forever, with very little new content. It’s not just about liking or not liking.

The situation would be vastly different if there were so many good MMOs out there, but from the point of view of many of us there aren’t. And yeah we get this game has it’s flaws, but compared to the alternatives, this is it…for many of us.

So not buying the expansion, like or or not, puts you in a kind of limbo. You’re just going to sit with what you’ve been doing all along. Very little new, and very little you can participate in.

If you’re okay with other MMOs out there, it’s less of a problem but not everyone is…in fact, I’d wager many people aren’t.

So if you don’t support this game, even if you don’t like the direction it’s going in currently, and there aren’t other MMOs to replace this one, then you’re sort of shooting yourself in the foot.

You still try to change the game to the game you want, which some people did. It’s why the April update happened.

But I’m relatively certain it happened as much from internal metrics (from past comments we know Anet relies heavily on those) rather than complaints on the forums from people who didn’t buy the expansion.

Djinn.9245:

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

People who don’t play something can’t possibly comment on what’s wrong with it

This is incorrect. One does not need to play a type of content, advertised as that type, clearly labeled as that type, streamed by other players as that type, posted on you tube in countless videos demonstrating that it is that type, for someone who does not like that type of content to be able to accurately, honestly, state that the content is off-putting to him.

Very true. In fact I will not be pre-purchasing the next expansion. I will wait to see if it is full of platforming and progression gating like HoT. If it is, I won’t purchase it. Once I am done with the parts of GW2 I have access to, or am significantly inconvenienced by not owning the expansion, I will quit GW2.

Its really such a shame. When GW2 first came out I thought it was the best thing since sliced bread.

Not really point point at all, so agree with it is pretty much irrelevant.

Anet knows people complained about certain things, but they have no way to gauge what percentage of people did or didn’t buy the expansion based on those things. They can guess and they can make educated guesses, but it’s still guessing.

They know precisely how many people don’t raid, or how many people tried to raid and didn’t, who didn’t buy the expansion.

Now, a lot of people who didn’t buy the expansion would have quit the game, probably most of them, if they indeed are active players. Because there’s little new content for them.

PvPers and WvWers are mostly going to want the option for the new builds. PvE’ers are going to want new maps and maybe raids, but certainly new metas and events, of which there’s precious little in game by comparison.

So if you don’t buy the expansion and you stop playing, nothing will change specifically for you. Because Anet doesn’t know what to change.

They’re not going to willy nilly go and change everything that everyone complained about.

The big April patch isn’t an example of Anet changing stuff for people who didn’t buy the expansion. They were far more likely looking at numbers of people who bought the expansion but don’t set foot in those maps.

The April patched helped those maps, but it’ll never compensate for the sales of those who didn’t buy the game at launch. Those types of things almost never happen and Anet knows it.

They know most people who buy a game buy it within the first 90 days of launch for the life of the game. Everything else is just playing catch up.

So if you didn’t buy the game, making changes later isn’t necessarily going to help Anet, just as people who walked away often won’t look back. It would be a bad business decision for Anet to make changes to a multi-million dollar game, simply because some people didn’t buy it. To some degree you have to support players who are playing rather than make drastic changes and try to bring back players that haven’t. You can make some changes, but a bird in the hand is always going to be worth two in the bush. That expression exists for a reason.

I’m sure Anet did learn some lessons from the reaction to HoT which is showing up in the new zones to some degree, but I’m relatively sure that reaction is based on people currently playing far more than it is based on people who never bought the expansion in the first place.

In fact, I’m pretty sure more people buy second or third accounts when the game is on sale, than new people buying it. The same was likely true with Guild Wars 1.

Crinn.7864:

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

If a million people don’t buy the expansion it tells Anet zero about what those people don’t want. Nothing at all. NoT one thing.

Not really true.

If a million paying/playing customers do not buy an expansion, but continue to play the game, then it tells Anet a great deal. Most importantly it tells them that those people do not want what is in the expansion, but do want what is in the core game. This, at least, implies that what they don’t want is the manner in which the expansion deviates from the design philosophy of the core.

No a million people not buying the expansion tells Arenanet that their markating strategy is poor.

A million people buying the expansion but then quitting the new zones after a couple days tells them that they need to change the gameplay.

Yep this is my take on it. For one thing, no one buying the expansion knows the expansion because they haven’t played it. So they see people say it’s too hard and believe it’s too hard, or they see people say it’s too grindy and believe it’s too grindy, but then we see posts from people who delayed buying the expansion, and found it neither too hard and too grindy.

People who don’t play something can’t possibly comment on what’s wrong with it, or even really be counted in the conversation, any more than if I were to start talking crap about playing a thief without actually having played a thief, my opinion would mean anything.

Nice data, but I’m guessing there’s confirmation bias there.

Again, as I’ve said many times in the past, Guild Wars 1 is a 10 year old game that existed in a very very different marketplace than today. Comparing what Guild Wars 1 did ten years ago with what games do today is going to be meaningless because the entire industry has changed.

There’s not even evidence that Guild Wars 1 would have been successful or as successful if it came out today.

In Guild Wars 1’s time virtually every multiplayer fantasy game has a sub, and there were a lot less of them. There were no free to play MMOs back then. Nothing to compare to the situation that exists now.

Even after 2 disappointed quarters, Guild Wars 2 is one of the more successful MMOs of the last five years. It doesn’t matter if you agree, or if you think it could have come closer to beating WoW, because there’s no evidence to support that doing it differently would make more profit.

The biggest issue Guild Wars 2 suffered, in my opinion, it the really bad publicity around HoT. Part of that came from the mistake of HoT bring priced to high and part of it came from the mistake of not giving a character slot as part of the base package. Those are mistakes and Anet paid for those mistakes with bad publicity. Instead of there being hype and excitment, there were angry veteran players screaming on the forums and such. And so HoT didn’t sell as well.

Charts like this can’t possibly apply this kind of data. What they can be used for is to prove anyone’s point about anything, when taken in different contexts.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

If a million people don’t buy the expansion it tells Anet zero about what those people don’t want. Nothing at all. NoT one thing. Anet can’t possibly know why those people didn’t buy the expansion.

1. Unless people tell them on this board or Reddit, which happened a lot with HoT.

People who buy the expansion and only play certain content at trackable entities. Anet knows exactly how many people have bought the expansion and what percentage of them raid. If you’re not counted in that, if you didn’t buy the expansion because you don’t like the addition of raids, a bigger percentage of people will be raiding. You can call it shameless but I call it logic.

2. Failure to purchase is also a demographic. In fact it can be subdivided into didn’t buy/doesn’t play core and didn’t buy/still plays core. I doubt ANet would ignore all of the info available to them.

How exactly does not buying the game tell anything anything? DId you not buy it because it was two expensive? Did you not buy it because of bad reviews? Did you not buy it because it didn’t include enough new armor skins? Did you not buy it because you didn’t like the difficulty of the HoT zones? Did you not buy it because you don’t like vertical maps. They’re all different reasons. People who bought it can be tracked.

3. Businesses speculate about why consumers don’t buy their products all the time. They gather evidence about it any way they can. Given forum feedback, all of the reasons you cited above appeared in sufficient frequency to be areas of concern.

It’s like saying Disneyworld knows why people don’t come to their park if they don’t come to their park. It’s factually false. They can guess but they don’t know. But if you go to their park and you don’t ride certain rides and enough other people don’t ride those rides they’ll replace them.

4. It’s not the same at all. People who bought core already went to Disneyland. The fact that they’re choosing not to ride the 2-3 new rides recently put in should be plenty of info for a discerning business.

You absolutely won’t be counted if you’re not actually there.

False. I am certain ANet knows how many active accounts that own core didn’t buy HoT, and that they can look at the body of complaints, discern frequencies and extrapolate probabilities.

Consumers who purchase products they find lacking are in fact doing a disservice to the consumer base. One stat companies will certainly track is sales. A sale indicates that the consumer valued at least some aspect of the product enough to spend the money. If the consumer is spending the money regardless, that’s disinformation. That may serve the company. After all, they collected. It does not serve the consumer because it sends the message, “Keep doing this.”

The only scenario I can envision where a company might choose to disregard existing customers who did not purchase a recent product is one in which the company no longer cares whether those older customers might become ongoing customers again. If that’s the picture you’re painting, then OK, but I doubt that’s where ANet is — or ought to be.

Actually this statment is false. Saying my statement is false dosen’t make is so.

Anet may know of five reasons why people don’t buy the upgrade (and it’s probably more but lets pretend it’s only 5).

If 1 million people don’t buy the upgrade, Anet really has no idea of what percentage didn’t buy it for which reason. They don’t know. They can guess, but it’s only guessing, It’s not a metric.

If 1 million people didn’t like the direction of the game because it got harder, it’s very different than if one million people didn’t buy it due to grind or perceived grind, which is very different if 1 million people didn’t buy it due to power inflation in builds due to elite specialzations.

Anet just has no idea. They know all the complaints. It’s absolutely not a metric they can use.

So let’s pretend that 1 million people feel the expansion is probably too hard for them. Too much work. Even that’s two different things but let’s roll with it. Those people never buy the expansion. The people that do tend to like the idea of harder content and they do that harder content.

This gives Anet the idea that players playing their game like harder content, rather than the idea that these people didn’t buy the game because of it. Because they don’t know.

They can’t know what percentage of people didn’t buy the game because they started playing something else for completely unrelated reasons. Or which people didn’t buy the game just due to bad publicity without any idea of whether it would be good for them.

So they can’t base decisions on who didn’t buy the game. If they made the next expansion easier based on the theory that the new stuff is not working, they can only get that knowledge from people actually playing.

Cristalyan.5728:

Vayne.8563

If a million people don’t buy the expansion it tells Anet zero about what those people don’t want. Nothing at all. NoT one thing. Anet can’t possibly know why those people didn’t buy the expansion.

People who buy the expansion and only play certain content at trackable entities. Anet knows exactly how many people have bought the expansion and what percentage of them raid.

In a post regarding the Mystic Coins, one of the posters said something like: What if ANet knows? They have the decision power and if they decide to do (or not to do) something we have only to accept. Nothing to do but to accept.

To go back: " …Anet knows exactly how many people have bought the expansion and what percentage of them raid" – and so what? If they decide to do nothing about things we don’t like, and taking into account they took the money already, they can choose do nothing. And we have to accept this.

On the other hand: " If a million people don’t buy the expansion……. ". This does not mean is telling ANet nothing. That means the product ANet wants to sell is not meeting the expectations of the buyers. This means nothing for ANet? In this case, if a company cannot learn anything from the tons of complains until now, the management of that company has a lot of things to fix. Well, maybe they learned something, but regarding HoT they already took the buyers money and they can choose to do nothing.

DaShi.1368

IF THE EXPANSION DOESN’T PROVIDE THE CONTENT YOU WANT, DON’T BUY IT!

This is an excellent lesson. From my part, I’m on the same boat: If the next XPac will have even a single aspect I cannot touch, I will not waste my money for it.

ANet is acting as the politicians: Before elections (sales start) they promises everything for everybody. After elections (selling the product) they vanish almost completely from the forums / media / game community. The rare moments they show they are alive are used to tell us that the players don’t act as ANet wants, the community is toxic or that everything is perfect with the game but we lack the wisdom to appreciate this.

They forget that new elections will come. And the toxic / unwise / rebel community will have a word to say. By buying an incomplete product again we will miss the opportunity to help ANet. To help them to become responsible peoples. Because, judging HoT, they acted like a team trained in avoiding the responsibility.

And you’re miss out because there’ll likely be single aspect in any MMO you won’t be able to touch. What you’re saying is if there’s one ride in Disneyworld I won’t go on I won’t go to Disney World. I’m sure most people wouldn’t think that makes sense.

I don’t buy stuff based on the value of what I won’t do with it, but what I will do with it. That’s just the simplest logic.

I don’t usually go to the small mammal house when I go to a zoo, but it doesn’t stop me going to zoos.

Also taking my reply out of context doesn’t really help the discussion at all.

DaShi.1368:

Vayne.8563:

Astralporing.1957:

martin.1653:

Rod.6581:

Don’t buy expansion until of 50% off.

You are willing to wait 1 year only to save 20€? That’s… well… ok.

To save 20 euro, to see what problems are associated with the expac, and to see which ones will be fixed and which ones won’t.

Otherwise they may end in the situation of someone that paid for the game to change direction away from the one they wanted. Like it happened to many people with HoT.

Well, if not enough people buy the expansion, it doesn’t help., because it changes nothing. Most people will just walk away from the game, find another game and never say anything. The problem here is that if the game does worse, its’ not necessarily going to change the direction in the way you want.

So if casuals say don’t buy the expansion and raiders do, and you end up with more hard core players, the game will continue further in the direction you don’t like because the content being focused on is the hardest.

Not buying the expansion, in my opinion, isn’t a way to make the game swing back to the content you want. Buying the expansion and not playing the hard stuff is.

Ok. This is shameless. That logic doesn’t make sense. Once they have your money, they can make any content they want.

IF THE EXPANSION DOESN’T PROVIDE THE CONTENT YOU WANT, DON’T BUY IT!!!

It’s that simple. And let them know that is the reason you did not buy it. In this game, you vote with your wallet. Once you buy the game, you’ve up your part of the process. This is why pre-purchasing is so dangerous for consumers.

It’s not shameless and using that language is inflamatory. It’s like saying I’m not going to vote, but then complaining about who gets into office. It’s the same thing.

If a million people don’t buy the expansion it tells Anet zero about what those people don’t want. Nothing at all. NoT one thing. Anet can’t possibly know why those people didn’t buy the expansion.

People who buy the expansion and only play certain content at trackable entities. Anet knows exactly how many people have bought the expansion and what percentage of them raid. If you’re not counted in that, if you didn’t buy the expansion because you don’t like the addition of raids, a bigger percentage of people will be raidiing. You can call it shameless but I call it logic.

How exactly does not buying the game tell anything anything? DId you not buy it because it was two expensive? Did you not buy it because of bad reviews? Did you not buy it because it didn’t include enough new armor skins? Did you not buy it because you didn’t like the difficulty of the HoT zones? Did you not buy it because you don’t like vertical maps. They’re all different reasons. People who bought it can be tracked.

It’s like saying Disneyworld knows why people don’t come to their park if they don’t come to their park. It’s factually false. They can guess but they don’t know. But if you go to their park and you don’t ride certain rides and enough other people don’t ride those rides they’ll replace them.

You absolutely won’t be counted if you’re not actually there.

Linken.6345:

Vayne I havent touched raids and it havent helped at all.
So not sure if keep handing money over for what we dont want is the solution.

People are pretty short sighted, I think. You haven’t touched raids and it hasn’t helped? How do you know it hasn’t helped. Raids were only introduced a year ago. If Anet even changed direction due to people not touching raids, you wouldn’t even see it for another six months to a year.

But in some ways, it has helped. Anet did make major changes to the new zones, making them easier, more casual friendly and less grindy. I noticed the different last April. Now we’re getting a new map with every Living Story and they’re nothing like the HoT maps with their timed giant metas. There are a lot of people that like Bloodstone Fen or Ember Bay and there are a lot of people who like the story.

We’ve received one new Fractal and another new Fractal incoming. We’ve received 2 new PvP maps as well. And most of that stuff still wouldn’t have factored into you not doing raids. You say it hasn’t helped. Where is your evidence?

Astralporing.1957:

martin.1653:

Rod.6581:

Don’t buy expansion until of 50% off.

You are willing to wait 1 year only to save 20€? That’s… well… ok.

To save 20 euro, to see what problems are associated with the expac, and to see which ones will be fixed and which ones won’t.

Otherwise they may end in the situation of someone that paid for the game to change direction away from the one they wanted. Like it happened to many people with HoT.

Well, if not enough people buy the expansion, it doesn’t help., because it changes nothing. Most people will just walk away from the game, find another game and never say anything. The problem here is that if the game does worse, its’ not necessarily going to change the direction in the way you want.

So if casuals say don’t buy the expansion and raiders do, and you end up with more hard core players, the game will continue further in the direction you don’t like because the content being focused on is the hardest.

Not buying the expansion, in my opinion, isn’t a way to make the game swing back to the content you want. Buying the expansion and not playing the hard stuff is.

Redfeather.6401:

Zatoichi.1049:

Elite:

1. a select part of a group that is superior to the rest in terms of ability or qualities:

synonyms: best · pick · cream · crème de la crème · flower ·
[more]

Maybe that’s why it was named elite. Rather than open up build options like secondary profs in GW1, this new system in GW2 completely pigeon holes professions into roles…
… except for the celestial elementalist. The saving grace of this game.

lol I just realized something GW2 is actually the anti-GW. It does everything opposite to what GW did. It all makes sense now.

Because no one every complained that skills like pain inverter or necrosis, or save yourselves in GW 1 were must have skills to get through certain content. No one ever said if you’re not a paragon/warrior with save yourselves, you’re not getting into my DOA team. No one ever said, LF rank 8 ursan.

I used to try to participate in pugs for underworld and DOA and people wanted I-way or sabway, or amway or 600 monks.

Some people just insist on those rose colored glasses.

Edit: You know the more I think about it this is pretty much exactly what they did in Guild Wars 1, as least as far as PvE was concerned. In PvE you could use 8 skills but you could only use 3 PVE only skills. Those skills were more powerful than anything you could put on your bar. That’s 3 out of 8 skills or roughly 1/3. In Guild Wars 2 they’re just doing the same thing with traits that were done with skills, but its’ the same thing. And I remember many complaining about the power creep or having to have certain skills on their bars.

There were other skills that also were must haves. Minion masters had to have that skill that summoned minions even if there wasn’t a corps, I don’t know a lot of rits that didn’t use signet of spirits (how could you not) and of course the only really viable paragon build was imbagon.

Yep, this isn’t the opposite of what Guild Wars 1 did at all…at least for PvE.

Edit 2: You can’t really compare elite specs to secondary professions because one was in the game at launch, where as we’re talking about something added with expansions, much like the PvE only skills I’m talking about.

MrParaduo.4869:

Vayne.8563:

Here’s the issue with what you’re say, Mr Paraduo.

You’re suggesting more people weren’t here and more potential future players exist to tip the scales in the favor of more people wanting it. Here are the issues with your logic.

1. Most games sell 90% of the copies they’ll EVER sell in the first three months of business. As a result, the people who play catch up later are never nearly as much as the people who were there at the beginning.

2. Guild Wars 2 was an enormously popular game with pre-order and early sales. It old over 4 million copies by launch day. That’s a lot of people. As far as we know it hasn’t reach that amount again in the four years since then. So more people bought the game then.

3. Not everyone cares about story. In fact, many people don’t care about story at all. Not only does every player buying the game not PvE (some people only do SPvP or WvW), but some of the new PvE customers themselves might not be interested in story. Some might only be interested in raids.

4. A lot of the content in Season 1 was open world content and couldn’t be easily recreated. The amount of work would be enormous. The question isn’t what you want or anyone wants, so much as what has to be given up to get that. I’m an experienced player. I was there for all of season 1 and I enjoyed it immensely. But I don’t think think it’s so easy to go back again.

5. There are better solutions than remaking season 1. Making a video about each of the people you meet and how you know them would be infinitely better, or at least cheaper, than trying to redo the entire season, which lasted a year and a half and had a boatload of updates.

At the end of the day, because you feel strongly about this, you assume it’s something more people want that probably want it.

I saw a suggestion like this posted on reddit, or example and it received very few upvotes, but posts in the thread that said they don’t want it received more upvotes. This idea is not as popular as you think it is.

So you’re saying that because I feel strongly about the topic, my argument is invalid?

No. I’m saying because you feel strongly about it, your judgement is likely affected. You don’t know how much work it would take. I played through the Living Story Season 1. It lasted a year and a half. It was a year and a half of updates. It would take at least that long again to bring it out, even if they started this second. But they couldn’t bring it out live the way it is, because, there were at least two major events in Lion’s Arch that were completely different. All of Lion’s Arch, which is completely different now anyway. It’s an impossible task. They’d have to change it completely, which would add to the time taken.

You’re not wrong because want it badly but your willingness to pay whatever the price in development time is based solely on your strong feelings. Other people have different feelings and some people have no feelings at all.

Over all, Anet is in a much better place to judge whether it’s worth it or not than anyone on these forums.

I don’t suppose you have or asked your guild what’s going on? MMOs are social games and there is always benefit in being in a guild with knowledgeable and helpful people. I’ve helped many guldies with missions and even told the story of Season 1 in such a way that people got the most out of Season 2.

Serious.7083:

MrParaduo.4869:

Feels like I’m stuck with an incomplete product then…

The principle is easy, it was made as a once only item. Anet were trying out a new way of designing content where you only got to play stuff if you were there at that specific time. A lot of the content required large numbers of players mindlessly bashing on Scarlett’s hordes. Several more weeks were spent fighting in the ruins of LA before final victory.

Anet thought the idea was good at the time, the problem being it left a massive hole behind for new players who would never experience it – then that did seem to be the idea. The newer stuff you can do because it was written to be always available.

Now comes the question, do you want them to update the old stuff, or do you want them to continue creating new content? They are supposedly ‘working on it’ but how long it might take and if anything will actually appear is anyone’s guess at the moment.

I personally would really like the Bazaar of the Four Winds to return but there is no indication if it ever will.

AFAIK they never said they were working on it. What they did say was that it’s something they would like to do at some point, but there’s no evidence I’ve seen that they’ve started anything.

Ayrilana.1396:

I checked the gem store descriptions. They all appeared pretty clear to me.

I don’t know. If the package requires Heart of Thorns, it should say it requires Heart of Thorns in the description. Sure it’s clear if you already know what’s what. I can see how this could confuse people.

Here’s the issue with what you’re say, Mr Paraduo.

You’re suggesting more people weren’t here and more potential future players exist to tip the scales in the favor of more people wanting it. Here are the issues with your logic.

1. Most games sell 90% of the copies they’ll EVER sell in the first three months of business. As a result, the people who play catch up later are never nearly as much as the people who were there at the beginning.

2. Guild Wars 2 was an enormously popular game with pre-order and early sales. It old over 4 million copies by launch day. That’s a lot of people. As far as we know it hasn’t reach that amount again in the four years since then. So more people bought the game then.

3. Not everyone cares about story. In fact, many people don’t care about story at all. Not only does every player buying the game not PvE (some people only do SPvP or WvW), but some of the new PvE customers themselves might not be interested in story. Some might only be interested in raids.

4. A lot of the content in Season 1 was open world content and couldn’t be easily recreated. The amount of work would be enormous. The question isn’t what you want or anyone wants, so much as what has to be given up to get that. I’m an experienced player. I was there for all of season 1 and I enjoyed it immensely. But I don’t think think it’s so easy to go back again.

5. There are better solutions than remaking season 1. Making a video about each of the people you meet and how you know them would be infinitely better, or at least cheaper, than trying to redo the entire season, which lasted a year and a half and had a boatload of updates.

At the end of the day, because you feel strongly about this, you assume it’s something more people want that probably want it.

I saw a suggestion like this posted on reddit, or example and it received very few upvotes, but posts in the thread that said they don’t want it received more upvotes. This idea is not as popular as you think it is.

sophiewhite.3149:

Menadena.7482:

ChrizZcE.5981:

If they nerf the multiloot I´ll be leaving the game. At least in the ML there is communication and you fight things. Only other thing worth doing in the game is silverwastes or farming materials. I´d rather scratch out my eyes than do either of these two activites everydays for hours.

Shall those of us that are losing our enjoyment of the game because the economy is getting destroyed by cheaters hold the door for you?

so you lose enjoyment when people play something you dont enjoy? your enjoyment depends on others doing something they dont enjoy so you can be happy. selfish.

I think the point is, a lot of people use to run the world boss chain to farm ectos to sell for gold. Now the gold price of ectos has dropped markedly making the world boss farm less and less profitable. Not that it was that profitable anyway.

The point is people believe the AB farm affects them negatively and that doesn’t make them selfish. And calling people selfish because they disagree with you probably isn’t going to win any sympathy for your cause anyway.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

So what rewarrd TYPES are only locked behind one type of content.

Put it another way. I’ve done everything in the game. I’ve been able to achieve it. I wasn’t able to do the legendary backpack in PVP but I am able to get a legendary back pack through Fractals.

I may not like crafting ascended armor, but it does drop (if rarely in game) and you can farm high level fractals for it. In fact, now you can buy it.

I may not be able to get the mini from SPvP but I can get minis elsewhere.

There is one place to get legendary armor from. Period. And it requires more of an investment that almost anything else in the game, including legendary weapons.

More to the point, the hardest part about getting a legendary weapon is world complete, which I can do in 5 minute intervals solo if I like. This is a departure from the rest of the game, as the commitment is much higher.

I can get a gift of battle if I want, but doing WvW or EotM in half an hour intervals with a commander, without thinking about it.

This ups the ante to what I perceive to be an unacceptable level. This is going to make me feel like a second class citizen, because that armor is flash as hell and it’ll be around me, but I won’t have access to it without destroying the game for myself.

Seeing a mini, when I can get other minis isn’t such a big deal. Seeing a skin when I can get other skins, isn’t a big deal.

But this skin that animates only when you’re in battle, that has swappable stats.

Sorry, it’s a prize that’s being withheld from me that I’ll not be able to get without destroying the game for me. Which makes me wonder if the game is really for me anymore.

I’ve played too many hours and worked too hard to get the rewards I have to become a second class citizen now and I’m not the only person who feels this way.

It’s a massively visual indication that the game is moving away from my comfort zone. That implication has already cost this game players and sales. If you think that’s going to stop, you’re probably wrong.

I expect ANet will eventually offer L. Armor outside of raids. It’s probably years away. It might or might not be transformer style. It will probably be too late to retain some players.

The thing is, I’ve felt disenfranchised by ANet decisions as to game direction going all the way back to the inclusion of Ascended gear in late 2012. I know exactly what you’re talking about. The thing is, where can we go? Where is there an MMO which offers the things you like about GW2? I haven’t found one which even comes close, and I like a whole lot less about GW2 than you seem to.

And no, I don’t expect people in general to suddenly become willing to accept that there are going to be aspects of any game that aren’t for them. I offer the idea because maybe there will be some who get it.

Well no, I won’t go from this to another MMO that I like even less, but there’s plenty of other things to do in the world besides MMOs. I’d either buy a console or I’d play some adventure games that I haven’t been playing, or I’d catch up on Netflix. It’s not like an MMO is the only thing I can do to entertain myself.

I agree, MMOs are in a terrible place right now, but you know, I can make a game out of trying different ones too, between doing a bunch of other stuff.

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Vayne.8563:

Seeing a mini, when I can get other minis isn’t such a big deal. Seeing a skin when I can get other skins, isn’t a big deal.

But this skin that animates only when you’re in battle, that has swappable stats.

Sorry, it’s a prize that’s being withheld from me that I’ll not be able to get without destroying the game for me. Which makes me wonder if the game is really for me anymore.

I’ve played too many hours and worked too hard to get the rewards I have to become a second class citizen now and I’m not the only person who feels this way.

Genuinely curious here as to why something that in the end is merely a super fancy skin with stat-swapping that MIGHT be near-useless for most classes if we’re not allowed to swap runes along with it and is not required to partake in any content is ruining the game for you? Especially considering that you can very well change stats on your ascended gear for a small fee and that purchasing/getting a 2nd armor set is most likely cheaper than going for full legendary armor, even more so if you’re a frequent fractal runner.

I’m not seeing any grounds for “game-ruining” happenings here. If you don’t want to raid, sure, you don’t have to. The armor is a want at best, not a need and likely not a money-saver except when looking at the really long run under specific circumstances such as throwing the gear around between multiple characters and/or swapping stats a whole lot

It may have escaped your attention but many people play this game strictly for cosmetics. That’s what they care about. Not stats, but cosmetics. Cool looking stuff. The stats are a little relevant to me, but the way the armor transforms is far more relevant to me. It’s not just another skin. It’s a skin that does something no other armor in the game does. So if I think that looks really cool and it’s beyond my reach, if I’ve come to the end of what I can do in this game without hating the game, then yes, it’ll become time for me to move on.

To put it differently, I already have made 12 legendary weapons. I can do that. I need stuff to do, long term stuff to do. Legendary armor would be something perfect for me to work on, if I didn’t dislike, actively dislike raiding. Nor can I raid for 15 minutes and take a break and do more later.

With dungeon tokens, getting that stuff wasn’t an issue. Run a path of a dungeon, run another path another day. Raids are a whole different animal.

So yeah, if I’m at the top of the game now and I can’t stay there because of decisions made that I don’t like, it might no longer be the game for me.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

snip
Now, if I were a tiny minority it wouldn’t matter what I think but I think most people don’t want to raid and that’s a problem for the game.

You may think it’s not a problem but the perception of a casual game that changed it’s stripes has hurt this game a lot more than raids have helped it.

The thing is, there are a lot of rewards locked behind specific content. It’s not just raids. You may very well be in a tiny minority that does not enjoy raids but does enjoy everything else the game throws at players. From the reactions on these boards, there are a lot of players who dislike a lot of content types, and sometimes there are things locked behind such content. I tend to take the view that it is impossible to cater to players who believe that everything in the game ought to be aimed at them when they don’t want to play everything that the game could throw at them.

The thing is, the MMO fan base is diverse, but the business model is dependent on keeping many demographics interested over time. A game developer that ignores enough demographics is cutting its own throat. That said, there is a balancing act inherent in adding content designed for one group because players do take the unrealistic view that everything the company puts into the game ought to be their cup of tea.

Take your point about designated roles. You don’t like that aspect of raids. However, there was a sizable demographic whose beef about dungeons was the lack of such roles. Now that raids are in, I’m not seeing those complaints. A game developer cannot cater to both points of view. All they can hope is that when they cater to A, B recognizes, “Oh, this isn’t for me, I’ll just focus on the parts of the game that are for me.”

I think, in the long run, ANet is too smart to lock L. Armor as a tier behind one type of content. The drawbacks there are:

• Seemingly, L. Armor takes a long time to produce, and if there is one thing an overwhelming majority of posters have in common it’s lack of patience.
• ANet has locked skins behind specific content, so there’s every likelihood the raid skin will be exclusive even if they add a different L. Armor elsewhere.

This is not to say you are wrong to beef, it’s just offering a rationale for why the issues are less cut and dried than many posters seem to believe. Finally, it seems somewhat ironic that I, a non-raider, am defending the inclusion of raids, and defending ANet actions from you when it’s often been the other way around.

So what rewarrd TYPES are only locked behind one type of content.

Put it another way. I’ve done everything in the game. I’ve been able to achieve it. I wasn’t able to do the legendary backpack in PVP but I am able to get a legendary back pack through Fractals.

I may not like crafting ascended armor, but it does drop (if rarely in game) and you can farm high level fractals for it. In fact, now you can buy it.

I may not be able to get the mini from SPvP but I can get minis elsewhere.

There is one place to get legendary armor from. Period. And it requires more of an investment that almost anything else in the game, including legendary weapons.

More to the point, the hardest part about getting a legendary weapon is world complete, which I can do in 5 minute intervals solo if I like. This is a departure from the rest of the game, as the commitment is much higher.

I can get a gift of battle if I want, but doing WvW or EotM in half an hour intervals with a commander, without thinking about it.

This ups the ante to what I perceive to be an unacceptable level. This is going to make me feel like a second class citizen, because that armor is flash as hell and it’ll be around me, but I won’t have access to it without destroying the game for myself.

Seeing a mini, when I can get other minis isn’t such a big deal. Seeing a skin when I can get other skins, isn’t a big deal.

But this skin that animates only when you’re in battle, that has swappable stats.

Sorry, it’s a prize that’s being withheld from me that I’ll not be able to get without destroying the game for me. Which makes me wonder if the game is really for me anymore.

I’ve played too many hours and worked too hard to get the rewards I have to become a second class citizen now and I’m not the only person who feels this way.

It’s a massively visual indication that the game is moving away from my comfort zone. That implication has already cost this game players and sales. If you think that’s going to stop, you’re probably wrong.

zealex.9410:

They are not afraid… ts ctually much easier to say raids are hard and complain about it rather than actually sacrifice some time studying the encounter builds rotations etc. to be able to do the raids. Theres also the fact that training guild are not the easiest thing to come by but again ppl prefer complaining rather than go through the effort of finding a guild group.

I’ve tried raids, didn’t enjoy myself and stopped trying. It’s not that I didn’t try. It’s not even that I didn’t put many hours into it. It’s that during those many hours I didn’t have fun.

See, this is a game. A game I purchased. A game I purchased that had no raids in the beginning. A game in which I could pick up and play pretty much any content in the game, without worrying about who was in the group (as in what professions) or whether we had a dedicated healer (something they advertised the game as not having), or any of the other dozens of intangibles that make raids annoying to me.

Since I don’t play games to be annoyed, I now have a content type I don’t enjoy, behind which rewards I want are being locked. I’m not incapable of raiding. Bur I am reluctant to spend hours of time doing something I don’t enjoy in a game that I paid for.

Now, if I were a tiny minority it wouldn’t matter what I think but I think most people don’t want to raid and that’s a problem for the game.

You may think it’s not a problem but the perception of a casual game that changed it’s stripes has hurt this game a lot more than raids have helped it.

Easier is not necessarily better. Before you zerged everything down and it was a joke. That doesn’t make the game better for me. I prefer completeing the HOT zones now,. when you actually have to play to do it.

Some people buy games to get through stuff in the easiest way possible. Some people prefer to play the game more or less as it was intended. I’m one of the latter.

You have to buy the expansion to play the expansion content. You can play the core content without buying the expansion.

Keep in mind the expansion is on sale now for the next couple of days at half price.

You’re angry something went on sale? It’s unfortunate but it happens. Stuff goes on sale all the time. If you were struggling so much, I’m not sure why you didn’t wait for a sale.

It sucks, yes, but I’m not sure what you expect anyone here to do or say about it?

sophiewhite.3149:

Vitali.4719:

What bothers me with multimap is that you just can’t find a normal squad. Multimap is like the new GW2 cancer. You get kicked without good reason (Yeah, I didn’t know I was waiting in the lobby when I wasn’t supposed to, what a bad player I am, right ?)
Maybe it’s time to get the Dragon’s Stand system in AB. If you didn’t do the meta on an instance, you don’t get the reward.

if your not multimapping why do you need to be in a squad?

I get in squads because if I should lose connection there’s a chance to get back into teh same map that’s actually doing the event.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

It certainly cuts down on chat spam though.

True. Most maps I play on see little to no map chat at all. Helps reinforce a sense of the need for heroes when there is little indication that the world is shared with other players.

A lot of that has to do with free to play players not being able to talk in map chat. It’s a problem, for sure.

Another lot that has to do with it is the difficulty in typing while doing combat and moving. I always have to come to a dead halt if I’m going to say more than a word or two.

Yeah a lot of the time I’m on voice chat with my guild. But there’s plenty of chatter I’ve seen in HoT zones.

The problem with core zones is that they’re so easy, no one has to talk. There’s no real reason to. No one has to ask for help. No one has to coordinate, so people don’t.

Edit: But to tie this back to the topic at hand I don’t think I’d like to have that player to player option filtering through everything in map chat, even if no one was chatting, but certainly not when I’m trying to ask for help with a hero point.

So, first, there is no player housing in the game. I don’t expect there to be player housing at any time in the near future. It’s not a feature. That’s why it’s “terrible”.

As for making content that varies from class to class or even faction to faction, that creates a lot more work, because everyone isn’t playing the same story. You might believe this is possible for this company with this budget, but we’ve seen no indication that it is possible.

You already have blurred vision from drunkenness in this game and it’s fine. Nor do I think that adds depth and I’m not really sure why you do.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

It certainly cuts down on chat spam though.

True. Most maps I play on see little to no map chat at all. Helps reinforce a sense of the need for heroes when there is little indication that the world is shared with other players.

A lot of that has to do with free to play players not being able to talk in map chat. It’s a problem, for sure.

It certainly cuts down on chat spam though.

Happened fairly frequently in Guild Wars 1. There were often complaints about it. Sure you couldn’t scam a guy like me very easily But that didn’t mean scams didn’t happen. We know they happened.

It’s not in the game intentionally. Obviously those things could have been added. But the trading post has a built in gold sink that wouldn’t exist of those were added. And in Guild Wars 1, direct trade caused issues with players finding creative ways to cheat other players. If you trust someone you can send them something and get the money, but it’s not supported by the game intentionally.

I agree that the story telling is uneven, and that more could have been done to help people catch up with the story. On the other hand, I’ve also been around for a long, long time, and I remember games where the story wasn’t in your face, you had to go out and find it and figure stuff out.

There’s a linear sort of story telling that goes on in most games, and then there’s a web of story telling.

The personal story doesn’t really come together as a story until you’ve played one of every race and you can get the background from different perspectives. Only then can you see what Anet was attempting, with mixed success in my opinion.

But comparing it to SWToR? That’s like comparing the games player base to WoW. SWTOR was made by the industry leader in story telling. That’s what Bioware does. Naturally the focus was on story and the rest of the game was a reskinned WoW. Anet is a company of artists and so the focus is quite different. This is why every game has strengths and weaknesses.

I’d have been stunned if Anet could have pulled off the story telling of SWToR> For one thing they didn’t have nearly the budget. SWToR is by far the most expensive MMO ever made. Anet did have to cut corners to stay in budget, which is why the personal story doesn’t use CGI. That’s very expensive.

At the end of the day every game does different things better. That’s what makes some games better for some players than others. Bioware created a great story in what is, in my opinion, a mediocre MMO…essentially WoW in space.

Guild Wars 2 created a better MMO with weaker story presentation.

That’s sort of how it works. No MMO is going to be great in every aspect. No MMO has the budget to be.

DoctorDing.5890:

Vayne.8563:

Sinope.5630:

I am sorry to say this ArenaNet, but The Worst Mastery system Ever is what we have now.

So now we have this:
1. Fill up xp bar, then fetch separate Mastery points from map and spent. That is clumsy system.

2. You loose all extra xp points if you don’t have enough mastery points to spent and you have filled up all those mastery lines and you are not good enough to get Mastery points anymore either.

I have high hopes that ArenaNet will do in a future fix this mastery system as they did with traits and specializations.

So what kind of change?
1. Those who have HoT: They choose mastery line what you want to work. Fill up the experience bar and character will earn Mastery point, when xp bar has been filled up. Then that xp bar will start to fill up again. You need to fill up that xp bar as many times as you need Mastery points. It is not so fast, but at least you are earning them all. (Yes I mean even 12 times or 15 times fill up that yellow xp bar.)

2. Those who does not have HoT: Can only earn Spirit Shards when they fill up that xp bar.

3. Those HoT players who have all Mastery points earned, anticipate that there will come more mastery lines in Living story / Expansion, can earn extra Mastery points just filling up that xp bar by playing. If they don’t want to earn them, then there is same kind of system what is in WvW reward system. You choose from that little box, what is top frame of the little map and choose, Spirit Shard line or Mastery point line. So in that way you are handling by yourself what you are earning; Spirit Shards or Mastery points.

I know, I know, People will yell now: “Don’t touch system what is working!” But you can make that working system more player friendly, you know. It is not easy change, but it will quarantee that everybody will get possibility to earn all Mastery points. Even casual ones. They just need to work for longer to get those Mastery points and they will do it eventually.

Someone didn’t understand the OP’s post at all.

I think they understood it perfectly. It’s not their fault that you don’t agree

The post was meant to be humorous. It’s satire. When you respond to satire seriously, you didn’t get the post. I wouldn’t log into the SNL forums to post serious political rhetoric on a satire. lol

Sinope.5630:

I am sorry to say this ArenaNet, but The Worst Mastery system Ever is what we have now.

So now we have this:
1. Fill up xp bar, then fetch separate Mastery points from map and spent. That is clumsy system.

2. You loose all extra xp points if you don’t have enough mastery points to spent and you have filled up all those mastery lines and you are not good enough to get Mastery points anymore either.

I have high hopes that ArenaNet will do in a future fix this mastery system as they did with traits and specializations.

So what kind of change?
1. Those who have HoT: They choose mastery line what you want to work. Fill up the experience bar and character will earn Mastery point, when xp bar has been filled up. Then that xp bar will start to fill up again. You need to fill up that xp bar as many times as you need Mastery points. It is not so fast, but at least you are earning them all. (Yes I mean even 12 times or 15 times fill up that yellow xp bar.)

2. Those who does not have HoT: Can only earn Spirit Shards when they fill up that xp bar.

3. Those HoT players who have all Mastery points earned, anticipate that there will come more mastery lines in Living story / Expansion, can earn extra Mastery points just filling up that xp bar by playing. If they don’t want to earn them, then there is same kind of system what is in WvW reward system. You choose from that little box, what is top frame of the little map and choose, Spirit Shard line or Mastery point line. So in that way you are handling by yourself what you are earning; Spirit Shards or Mastery points.

I know, I know, People will yell now: “Don’t touch system what is working!” But you can make that working system more player friendly, you know. It is not easy change, but it will quarantee that everybody will get possibility to earn all Mastery points. Even casual ones. They just need to work for longer to get those Mastery points and they will do it eventually.

Someone didn’t understand the OP’s post at all.

1. When you have hundreds of thousands of people doing the same thing a percentage of them won’t be nice. And a percentage of them will be nice. I’ve never seen more than a couple of people complaining about people doing hablion. Presumably there are more people not complaining than complaining. As you should do in all online interact, ignore the people who are there to troll or cause problems and go about your day. It doesn’t really matter what they think.

2. You sort of answered your own question a bit here with your first question. Let’s say they made the Jade a daily. Well that doesn’t spawn nearly as much. Which means less people could get it. I know I’m far more likely to do Hablion on my schedule than I am to do the Jade. Bloodstone elemental is a possibility though. All in all though, I don’t think this is a big deal.

mauried.5608:

F2P games are limited in how fast new content can be created, as developing new content is the most time intensive and expensive activity.
WOW can do this because its a sub based game.
Also without increasing the level cap endlessly which just means a continuous gear grind , its tricky to add new content without some other form of incrementing reward system.
Ultimately though all MMOs have a finish point where people will have done everything, and then its time to move on.

Not to mention there are many times people in WoW have complained about a content draught or no new content or content being stale. I can’t think of any MMO that I haven’t seen that complaint about. At least no theme park MMO.

Djinn.9245:

owlbystarlight.6594:

Hey everyone, been a while since I’ve posted here. Any folks here who run TD fairly often? I need to kill the Garent for my legendary axe, and I’m having rotten luck getting into any good maps. Most of the time we have too many AFK people or people doing other things on the map which really just messes things up. :/

Are there any guilds that specialize in TD events? Any peak times where more successful META runs take place? Thanks in advance.

There are people who will tell you that the metas are fine and WAI. The last two times I tried for the Gerent fight (last week, around 9pm NA), the one and only map that was organized was full more than 15 min out. I kept trying to get in until the event started. I gave up on one night. The other night, the overflow map that I happened to be in was not organized and although we managed to get the Gerent to show up, the event failed within seconds.

So pretty much like Triple Trouble. I agree. Getting into a map is the best way to do it. Attempted it two times in two days, beat it the first day, the second day one of the lanes didn’t finish, but the reward was pretty good anyway considering three lanes did. We just didn’t get that final chest.

You have to be there early and you have to get onto a server that’s doing it.

Astralporing.1957:

I’d be surprised if 50% of HoT owners even tried. And am quite sure many (possibly majority even) of those that did, did not go past their first few (failed) attemps.

I agree. I’m erring on the side of caution, but yeah it’s very unlikely to me that most people want to raid.

Jahroots.6791:

Vayne.8563:

Do you have evidence that most people want to raid? Because I personally don’t believe that’s true.

There was a good bit of evidence to show that loads of players attempted the raids around HoT launch. Saw some posts here and on reddit with the figures to back this up, I’d add a link or two if I had them at hand but alas they are all months old by now.

Now, I don’t think most people wanted raiding in GW2 at all. Just that people were interested because it was new content. Everyone from the dungeon and fractal community would have moved into raiding were it not for the high barriers to entry.

Loads of people are not most people. And trying something doesn’t mean you want to do it. That is to say, I tried certain types of food I didn’t like so after that I didn’t want to eat them because I didn’t like them.

Still I’d be surprised if 50% of hot owners even came close to beating a single raid boss.

Electro.4173:

Almost everything that actually “needs” a secondary identifier already has one. Equipment all has a rarity listed in the description if you mouse over the item. Runes / Sigils have different names based on rarity / level. Crafting materials the rarity is often misleading anyway and will likely just be deposited. Dyes have different thumbnails that denote rarity. The only major thing I can think of that might need a differentiator and doesn’t have one are mini pets or tonics, but its not like those drop in large numbers so its easy enough to just check the price on the TP.

TC specifically said “bags”. Which I assume he means champ bags and other such loot containers which drop. But rarity means very little for those unless you’re specifically trying to research drop rates or something, you can’t do anything with them except open them.

Electro there is an option on the inventory screen that says show/hide rarity. When you trigger it, it places a border around each item in your inventory the color of the item. The reason we’re talking about bags is because it’s in your inventory that this option exists.

For colorblind people, like me, I can’t always, or even usually, use that option effectively. This is what the OP is talking about.

I pretty happy myself, over all. Still playing every day. Less since I hurt my shoulder, but hopefully I’ll be playing more soon as it heals.

Aldath.1275:

It’s not that we are afraid, in fact most people WANTS to raid, people are curious about raids, and it’s the only real end game content HoT added, and the only one being worked on.

We just can’t.

I have tried raiding before, and I could only thanks to raiding groups. I used to think raiding cold be completed regardless of team composition, but I noticed that it’s false: In a game where they’re supposed to reward player creativity and lack of role trinity, they made it necessary. You can’t pretend that VG is beatable under 6 minutes by the majority of the in game population without bringing condition damage, tanking and healing, for example, specially considering how the “useful” Meta condition builds are entirely based arround Viper’s, which is only aviable thru crafting.

Raids demmand a lot of practice, but they’re also like your first job: You need previous experience, and they won’t hire you without it.

Those “for fun” groups are unicorns, they exist but only after a little while, and even on those, it doesn’t takes much time for someone to get in and demand gear checks or voice services.

Raids woldn’t be that bad if they hadn’t rage timers, as they push what has been “ruining” the meta game since eons back: speedrunning; it keeps the zerker meta very high up there, and hurts diversity.

And yes, there’s an elite running the raids, I mean, when you see they charge you 250+ Gold for being able to experience content… things are twisted.

Do you have evidence that most people want to raid? Because I personally don’t believe that’s true.

Okay that’s pretty funny. Good job. I got a definite chuckle out of it.

I enjoyed the core game, but I like the HoT maps more. Maybe it’s just a matter of opinion.

Get to the map 15 minutes early and use the LFG tool. Keep it open. Join a squad doing it. That’s the best way to get into a populated map. If you get there too late you won’t be on the one full map that usually succeed. Overflow maps have mixed results.

Crinn.7864:

Please remember that level 1-25 zones are the habitat of brand new players just figuring out how to use abilities.

Subjecting a brand new level 5 player to pocket raptors is not good for player retention.

You’re right of course, but it would be entertaining to watch. lol

DeceiverX.8361:

Vayne.8563:

Lexander.4579:

looks like their oldest game makes about as much money as all the games released after it together

Lineage breaks all the rules. It’s been called the WoW of Korea. It failed in the West but it’s so popular in Korea that it just keeps making money, much like WoW keeps making money. People have invested so much money into it over the years, they’re not likely to stop playing without kitten ed good reason.

I want to say it’s more along the lines of it was released here too early and managed poorly for the Western market. Open-PvP usually doesn’t work as well here, and takes a lot of tight managing to do well. A big blunder can kill a game like that if mismanaged a bit (See: R.OH.A.N.: Blood Feud).

You could be right. I simply said it failed, I didn’t specific why it failed. I don’t think, however, it would have done well in the western market anyway. That’s just my opinion though and I have nothing to back it up.

The idea that a four year old game doing this much money is in any kind of trouble is in itself troubling. I think people read too much into quarterly reports without any real idea of what’s expected. Several large games came out and people are playing them. That’s the nature of the business.

It’s like ratings on TV. On Election night, Smackdown Live, usually one of the highest rated shows, had poor ratings, because everyone was watching election results. During the world series, it’s ratings went down. During presidential debates its’ ratings went down.

But the show will do fine when not competing with all that new insistent stuff. The weeks without that stuff the ratings are higher.

Hardly surprising that with big titles that have recently come out, a four year old game isn’t doing better.

Wildstar, that’s doing badly.