Guild Wars 2

I agree with Deano. In other games, where they have an “inspect” feature, and you can see builds and gear, it always ends up getting used by people to exclude other people from parties. There’s quite enough of that going around in the first place.

Even if you wanted to put an opt out on it, people would insist you opt in or they’d not let you join the party.

It’s happened in other games, it will happen here too.

Bastien.1645:

Lanfear I honestly think a lot of people who play MMOs quite sadly and simply have no life. I know that sound really harsh but it’s true, youth unemployment is at an all time high and for a lot of people between the ages of 16-25, a game like WoW/GW/LoL is the only “goal” they have due to lack of opportunities, they create this artificial goal due to lack of career/life progression and they use getting that next “purple” as an incentive to keep living.

Except that the age of the average gamer is now over 30.

I’ve stopped playing because it’s time for bed. I’ll probably play more when I wake up. lol

It’s interesting to read a lot of the reasons people stop playing, because some of them are the very reasons I keep playing.

Generally speaking (and this is very general), I think people who are more focused on rewards and loot are generally less happy with the game than people who are focused on just doing whatever the hell they want to do. The problem is, because of that, Anet keeps trying to get the people who want the loot to be happy.

Which causes inflation and puts pressure on people who don’t want to play a certain way to play that way, if they happen to want ascended weapons or some cool looking skin.

In the end, no game can be all things to all people and Anet needs to position the game in such a way where it stops kitten ing off both sides of the divide (though right now it’s leaning quite heavily toward the loot seekers).

Edit: I do realize the statement above seems like a contradiction, since it’s leaning heavily to the loot seekers, but they’re the least happy. Yet, I still think it’s true. Because I don’t particularly care about loot, I do what I want anyway. I spent the entire evening leveling a 30th level character. That’s what I wanted to do, that’s what I did. I got zone completion in Wayfarer Foothills. I had fun, even though I’ve done it before on other characters. But if I were only interested in loot, I’d feel a lot of pressure not to waste this time and go do stuff that might not be fun to me…which is why I think that the loot – seekers aren’t happy. The limited amount of ways to farm will almost guarantee they’ll be bored sooner rather than later.

The mesmer pets aren’t persistent. Clones and phantasms die each time your target dies and then you have to cast them again. Minions aren’t the same as pets to me either. The only pet profession in this game (from my point of view) is the ranger.

Strangely, I have a necro, a ranger and a mesmer, and they’re actually my three favorite professions.

eisberg.2379:

McSlappy.1372:

xiv.7136:

GW2 players can leave and come back any time and do so constantly without being “left behind” on the gear treadmill.

This is a 100% false statement. If you left when ascended gear came out and recently came back there is nothing to catch you up to Ascended gear that has been ground out by other players. You get to start in and try to catch up which is good luck. Other games like WoW if I start playing now I can start getting the base tier of this seasons gear in an hour or two. WoW has what you just said. Not GW2.

Difference is that WoWs gear is absolutely required to complete all content they have, Guild Wars 2, ascended gear is not required, exotics not even required, and the one place that you need ascended gear for Agony Resistance, you’ll get it anyways while doing the Fractals without having to repeat the same level over and over again to get that required AR to move on to the next level.

So no, you are not left behind if you do not play for 6 months or even a year.
In WoW you still have to keep up with the gear treadmill if you do not want to be left behind, if you want to do all the content that will be released, with Guild Wars 2, you can stay in Rares if you want and will never be undergeared to complete the content.

Eisberg is right. I know this because I have guildies who have been gone for six months, and they just jump right in and start playing again. Run all the same content with us, including dugeons. Do some WvW. Do some SPvP.

The one exception might be the highest level fractals, which only a tiny percentage of the game’s population does anyway.

The answer is to have dungeons scale for zerkers. I know it sounds silly, but if Anet is going to up the health on bosses for guys who want to run through dungeons as fast as humanly possible, they screw up those dungeons for anyone who wants to just play a character (which is what an RPG should be about, from my point of view).

The whole mechanics/efficiency thing kills any aspect of RPG. You can’t play a support character, because it doesn’t help your team. You can only play a damage dealer. I’m not even talking about role-playing in the RP sense of the word. I’m talking about being vested in your character. Far more people play RPGs and get vested in their characters than most people think, even if they don’t actually RP.

So you have this image of this support guy, and then you have to make him a brutal killer no matter what. That just sucks.

By the same token, it sucks that the entire game is balanced around a meta that precludes people bringing the guy they want to bring.

In my guild no one cares. No one asks about gear or builds (which is how I prefer to play). But no one enjoys whacking away at a sack of hit points either. It’s just bad design.

It seems to me the game should be able to analyze the general damage output potential of a party and scale boss damage so that it doesn’t take much longer if you’re not actually bringing zerkers. Which allows people to play how they want.

Gnat.9405:

Well now there is no dungeon team so we will be waiting forever for that word. But it been said a million times, the discrepancy between berserker builds and non berserker builds is not the players individually, it’s the groups they join. Every party has a description now, and the likely hood of finding a group that will kick you out due to gear type is pretty low unless you seek out those parties. A majority of players do play with anything they want, and that’s fine. But there’s another group of players who understand the efficiency of pure glass and can handle it, and you by no means have to play with them. The problem persists when clerics want to play with spee groups but don’t meet the criteria to perform adequately.

Someone brought up the example of GW1 speed clears and that they would let anyone in. This is untrue on a level I can’t even begin to explain. There were specific builds for those runs as there are specific builds for speed clears in GW2. You wouldn’t bring a W/Mo on an UWSC and you shouldn’t bring Clerics to a GW2 speed clear.

Off topic: I’m curious as to what makes you think there’s no dungeon team.

As for the Guild War 1 teams, I agree with you. I used to try to run my own build and I couldn’t get into groups unless I had the build of the week.

I understand why this happens with pugs. In a guild, where you know people, you can discuss strategy and try things. In a pug, everyone wants to get done and that means tried and true methods. Everyone knowing their role and what’s expected of them.

I think the difference in Guild Wars 1 though was it wasn’t just one profession or one time of gear that dominated those meta builds.

I love using staff on mesmer, but I’ve switched over to dual swords/greatsword for dungeons, and I’m using dual swords more than the great sword for the most part.

However in the open world, which is where I spent most of my time, you can use anything and that’s where I use my staff. The 2 skill is great for getting out of harms’ way and chaos storm and the phantasm are very good.

And in my guild, it doesn’t matter what people use, as long as they’re having a good time. It’s not like we don’t clear content anyway.

Ema.4953:

Thanks all for the information.
By missing out on the crystal node then will that be a detriment ?

I have a crystal node in my home instance and I never use it. I probably could make a bit of cash mining a bit of quartz every day, but it’s not a big deal either way. Not usually even worth the loading time to get into my home instance. The same is true with candy corn unless you want to grind/get huge amounts of it to get one of the halloween weapon skins.

You can still get the achievements if you play now, to get a krait shard in your home instance that will give you a skill point a day and allow you to charge 25 quartz crystals into a rare material that’s account bound, and used only for crafting celestial gear.

Most people don’t care about celestial gear at all.

The newest things from what it sounds like you want, is the new dungeon path of Twilight Arbor (it replaced TA F/U) and it’s pretty challenging. There’s also the new Tequatl battle which you’ll only be able to finish with an organized group. Those are the two big additions.

More fractals should be added by the end of the year as well.

You’re not alone in your love for keg brawl. There was another post like this not long ago, and though it had a bit of support…it wasn’t that much.

The problem is the kind of people that generally enjoy minigames isn’t necessarily the biggest percentage of the population. As more and more minigames come out, the population gets divided more and more.

I used to play Keg Brawl and the hours I played (I’m in Australia) very often there’s be no one there but me or me and one other person.

Anet, in my opinion, it trying to create a situation where there’s always people when you want to play.

When Keg Brawl was a stand alone game every day, most days I couldn’t get enough people for a game at the times I play…now there’s always a game going even at odd hours.

In other words, this change made it harder for you to play Keg Brawl, but easier for me to play.

There’s plenty that goes into running a game that isn’t immediately apparent. For example, the more dungeons you have, the less people you have doing each dungeon. People who love dungeons think that dungeon runners are the bulk of the population but I don’t think that’s the case. Moreso, I don’t think it’s ever been the case.

So less dungeons mean more people doing each. In games with tons of dungeons, you have older dungeons that never get done (much like story mode here), in favor of the more popular dungeons that people do all the time.

By limiting dungeons to a time limit, Anet controls traffic. They get people doing the content and then they get people doing different content. Because of achievements, people who would have never done the content in the first place might be tempted to do it, and some do. I’ve seen that in my guild.

Just imagine a multiplayer game with thousands of dungeons. There are already dungeons and dungeon paths that people hardly ever run. Put in a popular new dungeon and everyone will run it and forget about the old dungeons.

Anet has said more than once they’re against dividing the game’s population too much. It’s one of the reasons they used for having only one type of SPvP and another reason they gave for not having stand alone expansions like the original factions.

One of the key things about MMOs is that everyone is interested in who else is playing. No one wants to start playing an MMO that no one is playing. By directing traffic, Anet gets to show people that people are playing their game, in significant numbers…and that’s good for everyone.

Because if Anet didn’t do some traffic direction, and everyone spread out doing whatever they wanted, I think the world would end up looking pretty lonely. It’s a big world. They need lots of players out in it.

There are several reasons why people complain about berserker.

Let’s pretend that you live in another country than then US which many players do…and even in the US not everyone has the same quality machine or connection. One guy in my guild is in Montana and has satelite. Sometimes the lag makes it impossible for him to time dodges. I’m in Tasmania. I have similar problems…not all the time but sometimes. Often enough to want a bit of toughness and vitality for the hits I might survive.

So now, you basically have a situation where I’m not helping the team enough if I don’t wear berserker, but I’m not helping myself enough if I do. The game won’t be as fun for me.

It’s not always about optimizing your build, because surviving as a berserker means that you have to have a certain level a skill, level of hardware, level of connection. What percentage of players have all three?

So if people then exclude others from their parties based on not having one or the other…how does that create a better game or better community?

Fortunately I’ve joined a guild that’s happy to take anyone into any dungeon with any build they have. And you know…we clear content just fine.

Maybe not as efficiently as the zerker warrior parties, but I’d wager we have as much fun as anyone.

Crossplay.2067:

How about more permanent living world content involving dragons? I find it hard to believe all the others would remain quiet for so long after one of them received a spanking.

I think that’s just what would happen. Probably prior to that, they all thought they were invincible. Now that one has been taken down, maybe they’re rethinking their options.

Of course, it’s also possible they pay no attention to each other at all.

Kain Francois.4328:

$60, for the game itself. I have proudly not used a single dollar to buy gems, and I don’t intend ever to do so.

I’ve paid my money for this game, stop telling me to “support it”, defending crappy RNG practices and overpriced goods.

I’m not criticizing GW2 itself, this game is AWESOME! But the monetization….

Unless anything has changed since they introduced Black Lion Ticket Scraps, they are one of the most unethical business practices I’ve ever seen in the gemstore. Their drop rate are so low, the intention isn’t to give us a fair chance, but rather their sheer existence is to trap people into opening more chests, pressuring them to gamble even more with hopes of collecting 10 scraps.

And then they actually expect some people to collect 7 Black Lion Tickets? For a single weapon skin? Really? How much does that equate in USD? Seriously, I’m asking the question. Someone calculate how much USD on average it costs to collect 7 tickets, then tell me if you’re willing to spend that much money.

Look, the GW2 playerbase could spend their money on whatever they want, but I don’t intend to do so because the monetization is absolutely horrendous. Even if we could play the game without this gemstore crud, it’s still like taking a dump on someone’s birthday cake. Sure, they could try to eat the pieces of the cake without feces on it, but who would want to eat such a thing?

Placing an ugly person next to a nice person doesn’t make the nice person look better by contrast. It just makes both of them look ugly.

I really wish the monetization would stop killing GW2’s reputation.

One thing here is that you can also get tickets directly, not just scraps from black lion chests. It’s still not great from the point of view of someone who likes RNG, but you don’t actually need multiple ticket scraps if you get a ticket.

Serelisk.6573:

Svarty.8019:

Lunar Sunset.8742:

I don’t like the fact that it’s only the gem store and converting gold-> gems is less than practical. I guess you have to wait for expensive ascended armors that look pretty hideous.

1. Is it impractical? Really? I don’t think it is. The amount of play/work required to acquire the gold to buy a whole set of gear on the TP is probably somewhere near the amount of effort required to earn tokens in dungeons for the nice sets there.
2. Ascended armour may look ugly, but there are already transmutation stones in the game. Use those.

Who’s next?

1.) Did you dismiss someone’s argument based on ballpark speculation?
2.) Transmutation crystals are not in the game, they are exclusively purchased through the gem store I’m pretty sure.

You can get transmuation crystals from black lion chests and you can get keys for black lion chests from the personal story. They’re also very rarely received as rewards for dailies, since I got one recently.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Haven’t missed your derail attempts at all. I posted in regard to configurable UI, Particle adjustments, Guild management, etc. Things players noticed were missing in Beta, and brought up then. Features, a year later, that don’t even appear to be “under consideration”. Features that I have yet to see people complain about having in games that have them.

Note that I’m not talking about features like “mounts” or “housing” because they don’t effect the whole in a positive way.

And that is still what I am posting about.

I am not derailing this thread. The OP posted about people having short memories. They don’t remember what games were like a year after launch. That’s exactly what he’s talking about.

You’re trying to make it sound like the features missing from this game aren’t missing from other games a year after launch. You’re actually proving the OP’s point.

I’m simply agreeing with him.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

I looked at the OP. Those appear to be patch notes. Not player complaints.
I would wager that some of those patch notes are in response to player complaints.

Have you actually played other games, or just read forums?

All games have complaint threads. However, I’ve not seen one asking for fewer features, myself. EQ2 forums were full of complaints, but.. none were complaining about the ability to move the UI around, and I don’t recall any asking to remove the particle control settings. I didn’t see any asking for a simpler, smaller, guild interface with less features either.

Your’e still missing my point. EQ launched with certain features and added features as time went on. It was missing stuff when it launched. It didn’t have everything. I don’t even have to have played it to know that that’s the case.

No game company has enough money to launch a big, open world MMO with lots of content and all the bells and whistles. People keep expecting them to, but no one has done it so far. At some point, the cost becomes prohibitive and they have to launch.

Every MMO could use another year or two in development, but they don’t get that time.

So if EQ 2 had some features that were in game and worked right, it lacked others that came later.

If you can name an MMO that launched with all the features players wanted, with a big world and tons of end game content, I’d love to hear about it.

EpicHedgehog.1754:

Yes, i really want to see changes in PvE, now i’m afraid to say that i’m playing support ele (not full berserker) because they will most likely kick me. Make supporting valuable, now its just “full berserker or GTFO” and there is no reason to play anything besides Warrior/Guardian (and Ele for AC (frost bow)/ Mesmer for CoF (portals) and sometimes Thief and Mesmer for higher levels of fractals)

I think that this has less to do with balance and more to do with human nature. It’s in every game I’ve ever played. Someone will insist on something. In WoW it was gear checks. In GW 1 it was specific builds. Here it’s zerker gear.

But the content is doable by other builds and other gear…it’s just not as fast or efficient.

It’s my opinion that the vast majority of players actually don’t care. It’s a very vocal minority that do. My advice is to join a guild with like minded players and do dungeons with whatever you want to.

It’s what I did. Not once in all the time I’ve done dungeons with my guild (and I have the dungeon master title), has anyone ever asked me about my build or my gear, with the possible exception to pick my brain and see if it helps them make some kind of build.

And I can assure you my build is not the most efficient.

As I’ve said and said again (and this goes along precisely with what the OP is saying), in order for your observations about EQ 2 to be relevant to this conversation, we’d have to look at the forums and comments from players about a year after launch.

I’m pretty sure if you did that, you’d find people complaining about all sorts of missing things, bugs that have been there since launch, and various other tidbits.

I’ve been to dozens of MMO forums for relatively new games…they all look pretty much the same. I’m sure EQ 2 was not any different.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Vayne.8563:

Basically it’s because it would trivialize many of the encounters in the game.

Oh yes Vayne, people HATE trivialized encounters in this game. I’m pretty sure the level 80 Queensdale champ Zerg is all about the “challenge”

A percentage of people don’t hate trivialized encounters…and percentage of people do. I’m not sure anyone can tell which percentage is bigger.

I’m sure that there are people that play this game that want everything handed to them on a silver platter and I’m sure there are people who play this game who want to actually to challenge themselves and win stuff through skill.

And those groups both have valid points.

In my opinion, however, the Queensdale champ train is too much loot for too little effort.

Gene Archer.8560:

Vayne.8563:

So the question remains, why are people being rewarded for easy content?

Is there a reason they shouldn’t be?

I think the concept most people talk about is risk vs reward. If the most rewarding thing in the game is easiest, that’s what people will gravitate too. I don’t particularly think that’s good for a game.

Rewards should be for accomplishing something, not running around doing something that is so simple it can’t fail…particularly if doing it that way cuts off normal play for other people attempting to just enjoy the game without a zerg coming and taking down a champion in two seconds.

I try to think of it from the point of view of someone who buys the game and starts off a human charcter and runs into Queensdale. And they see a champion…but they can’t get enough hits on it to get any credit because the zerg mowed it down. People are calling out stuff in map chat and instead of playing the game the way Anet originally intended, someone in map chat tells them about zerg farming. So now, this person who has no real chance to experience the game is running around with a zerg. They could, in theory, completely level to 80 without leaving Queensdale.

They’ll never get better at the game that way. Never learn their profession. Never be prepared for anything that happens later…then they’ll come to the forums and complain the game is too hard.

The idea in most games is that the reward you get should be directly proportional to the time/risk factor. If it’s not, the game is out of balance, and will eventually suffer for it.

I’d have been happier of the cash rewards scaled with the level of the guys you were facing. But you know, I’ve run the zerg train in Queensdale and Frostgorge and it’s not that much more difficult in Frostgorge. If you’re with a zerg, it’s trivially easy.

So the question remains, why are people being rewarded for easy content?

Zoltreez.6435:

laokoko.7403:

I think the developer explained, it take really long for them to design armor set. Much longer compare to say…. weapons.

So the end result is there are far less armor set. And they keep adding new weapon.

stop rushing content out every 2 week and maybe they would have time to implement armors ?

I’m pretty sure the people designing armor sets (ie artists) arent’ the same people who are programming the content for the living world. In fact, the living world has its own dedicated teams and the content production for armor isn’t affected.

You still end up with the same problem. Make one weapon skin or 12 armor skins (6 pieces male and female) that have to be sized, adjusted and tested on five races.

Basically it’s because it would trivialize many of the encounters in the game.

Armor skins, unlike weapon skins, take far more work. First you have to design six pieces of armor, and then you have to design those six pieces again for another gender, and then you have to make them look okay on five different races. That’s why there are so many weapon skins in the game, but so few armor skins.

People are suggesting that they just add armor skins in the shop and in game. Why do you think there are so few in the shop?

Armor skins take a boatload of work compared to weapon skins. Making sets for in game and in shop is a big big task. I don’t think Anet has a big enough staff or budget to make enough skins to put in both places.

Because it is so much work, I believe the cash shop is the best place for them to put it.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Amusing Vayne. You always resort to comparing to GW only. Apparently ANET did as well.

Overflows, no. In EQ2 at the zone in I get a list of instances if there is overflow. I pick one. I don’t get sent randomly to some mysterious “overflow” . All copies of a full zone are localized, on the same clock, and same event timer.

Crafting.. laugh. out. loud. Vanguard, Everquest2 have “crafting”. This game has harvesting with a 1 click button to make something.

Every single thing that you mentioned GW not having, and GW2 having are part and parcel of every other MMO I have played, have been for years. Features GW2 are missing also happen to be found in other major MMOs, have been for years. Features that are popular, add to all gameplay, and things ANET should have been aware of when releasing a new MMO to the MMO market.

Things like UI customization, particle control, guild functionality, guild halls that are GUILD HALLs, not pvp zones. Even first person being missing have nothing to do with GW and a lot more with actually stepping up to the plate in a bigger market.

It is a year later, Vayne. The honeymoon is over. If you insist on comparing GW2 to GW the amount Anet accomplished in a year improving the launched game there was far greater than here, and to me didn’t have the desperate sense of floundering around in search of direction I see here.

And it is funny. I went from a game, Everquest 2, to GW1. In spite of EQ2 having more content, more features than GW2 has now. It had.. and has.. unique gameplay good enough to overlook lack of amenities. And now, that is reversed, as I’m back to Everquest2 and only playing GW2 sporadically, because of those features EQ2 has and GW2 lacks, with no indication they will ever come.

Thanks. I am amusing.

As for the rest of it, the OP mentioned Guild Wars 1 and other people have commented on Guild Wars 1, so I was replying to those people. However, in my replies, I also talk about the latest MMOs. MMOs like SWToR and Rift and TSW to name three, none of which had LFG tools at launch. I’m very happy that EQ 2 does have an LFG tool, but I’m pretty sure it didn’t have it at launch. In fact, I’m pretty sure EQ2 didn’t have a lot of things at launch and it added them over time.

No one is saying, at least I’m not, that Guild Wars 2 has every feature in the world. But then, you’re saying the game is a year old like a year in MMO terms is such a long time. It’s really not.

As I’ve said countless times, I believe this game launched early. It’s only new getting up to where it should have been at launch. Are you saying Rift and SWToR, two of the newer and more popular MMOS (certainly more popular than EQ 2) didn’t have queues and waits to get into the game?

I’m comparing Guild Wars 2 to both Guild Wars 1 and the most recent generations of MMOs, but I’m mostly commenting on Guild Wars 1, since the OP is about Guild Wars 1 patch notes and I’m trying to stay on topic.

It’s sort of funny to me.

If the stuff you get out of the black lion chest was required, people would be screaming pay to win. It’s useless fluff stuff for a reason.

And if it’s useless, people don’t need this keys, so there’s nothing to complain about.

Atlas.9704:

Vayne.8563:

She’s obviously a sociopath and she obviously wants to destroy things. And she managed to convince the dredge and the flame legion to work together? How? My guess is the manipulation of their self interests. She has the Nightmare Court working with the Krait. I can see how she accessed the Nightmare Court easily enough (they’d eat up what she’s doing), and if she did find these power crystals the krait consider holy…well, entire populations have gone to war for less than that.

I do agree Anet could make this stuff clearer, but Anet has a history of not making certain things clear. The idea is to let people talk about them, just like this. In fact, they even said this very thing in the Halloween developer live stream.

Vayne I understand she has possible sociopathic tendencies.
However that isn’t a goal, that isn’t an explanation as to why these alliances are coming out of left field.

Even Heath Ledger’s Joker had some goal, to show that folks are basically animals when you strip away their safety.
Even real life criminals have a reason though I can’t vouch for any of them being remotely tied to reality.
Charles Manson believed in a possible race war and his killings would help spur it on. He’s also nuttier than Skritt droppings, but at least we have some reason why he did it.

What has the game produced to show why she’s doing this?

Which leads me to my next point, yes Anet has a history of not making things clear.
To some degree that’s no excuse. That’s a failing/challenge that needs to be worked on.
Hopefully this Collaboration effort will be the start to that.

They could improve with this character, well actually not really because they are set on whatever path they are making for her. They can work on their communication problems with their next villain.

Also I can’t see the connection between having a company with communication issues leading to people talking. If anything when you present more about a character people talk more about them.

Hint about the villain, show some of their work, debut the villain, reveal part of their plan and some reasons why this is their plan, and discover more as you continue.
That will spur people into talking about how good a villain’s work is, not how confusing or “Mary Sue” (I hate that term) a person is.

Right now we’re still at hint and show, even with Clockwork I don’t even think we’ve gotten to “debut”.

Now I could be wrong with this next update and ANet pulls a miracle by giving some flipping clue as to why she’s going around grouping folks up like a nosy mother who wants grand kids. If it happens I’ll reevaluate my stance like I’ve done before (ardent Scarlet supporter, but now facepalming but still supportive).

From what I read (and I’m not sure this was in game or not), she’s doing this because she wants to see if she destroys the existing structure what will replace it. It’s an experiment in her head.

See I don’t have anything against the holy trinity either….except for it’s prevalence. If you don’t like the trinity, you’re pretty much screwed….and I’m one of the people who don’t like it. Variety is the spice of life.

At least there’s one MMO I can play that doesn’t have the trinity in it.

Jski.6180:

Human will always do want they want they may say they do not like something but if they truly disliked it then they would not do it in the first places. Often ppl fool them self into thinking that they do not like something.
Ppl do not always do what they say they are going to do is the best way i can put it.

That’s not really how compulsion works though. A lot of MMOs play on compulsion to keep people playing. And people can’t help/choose compulsions by definition.

Krag.6210:

Vayne.8563:

I’m not sure that 4 sets of armor in a year (one of which I believe was here from launch) is particularly overkill.

Compare that to the amount of new armors you can get through playing that have been added. The problem I see here is that we get cash shop items INSTEAD of actual game or incentives to play.
I don’t need skins myself to keep playing, fresh and challenging content is what I want, but you can’t deny having some of these skins only available through actual game feats would give us some new goals to work toward.
It would be great if each update gave us a new goal, something that isn’t farming more money to buy skins or unlocking all the achievements (which are trying to make us believe there’s new content when there isn’t much).

I have compared it. But you know, people from day one have been asking for new armors in the cash shop. It’s not like Anet launched with pages of armor that people can buy. One of those sets was the Aetherblade set, and I don’t know too many people who had any interest in it. One of those sets was there at launch.

The point is, if they’ve added three sets in 14 months to a cash shop that supports a game with no sub…I’m not sure what the problem is.

Have they added new full armor sets to the game? Not as far as I’m aware of. But then, the number of armor sets in game that you can get by playing, compared to the few that are in the cash shop (currently 3 sets one of which was here at launch) seems to be quite reasonable to me.

I guess the second part of my question is as important as the first. How sustainable is it? How long will you keep playing content you don’t enjoy for a reward? Because if it’s not sustainable, this is something Anet has to learn now.

Not sure how they’ll work that out, but I think they need to know how many people are just doing it because it’s there, and won’t keep doing it over the long course of time.

Nick.6972:

There are people already playing LS only for achievements even though they don’t care about the lore or story.

I’m sure this is true. However, there are people who get enjoyment out of achievement hunting as an end in itself…I’m not one of them, but those people definitely exist.

I’ve been thinking a lot about the complaints I’ve seen on the forums about grind, both gear and achievement grind. And I believe that most people playing would say they’d like less grind. But we also know that Anet has access to various metrics which show what people are playing.

I guess the question is: how many people are actually going to participate in content they don’t enjoy just to get a specific reward and how viable is that situation for the long term health of the game.

For example, I did all the content in Kessex, because I want a skill node in my home instance. I didn’t however, enjoy following the zerg train there, I did it to get it over with.

Now, Anet might look at that and think, wow, that’s great, we have all these people doing this content, we’ve done well. But how many people doing the content actually like or want to do it? And is that part of what Anet is counting when they count how many people are for/against a specific type of content.

I think this is a question worth asking.

Edit: For the record, I think the instance leading into the chapter of the Living World is one of the best yet. It introduces the situation, gives me some perspective and a chance to face the creatures, and a cool new atmosphere in an existing area. That much I really liked.

Atlas.9704:

Nutty people don’t convince Krait to work with folks they would have slaughtered two weeks ago.

And even nutty people have limitations on time and resources.

That’s true, but I wouldn’t put all “nutty people” (to use your phrase) in the same boat. There are gifted people among the insane, some of whom at least in real life who seem to be able to get people to do the wrong thing. There are some very gifted sociopaths walking around who might have limitations on their time and resources, but they’re really adept at getting other people to do their dirty work for them, which is where I sort of see Scarlet.

She’s obviously a sociopath and she obviously wants to destroy things. And she managed to convince the dredge and the flame legion to work together? How? My guess is the manipulation of their self interests. She has the Nightmare Court working with the Krait. I can see how she accessed the Nightmare Court easily enough (they’d eat up what she’s doing), and if she did find these power crystals the krait consider holy…well, entire populations have gone to war for less than that.

I do agree Anet could make this stuff clearer, but Anet has a history of not making certain things clear. The idea is to let people talk about them, just like this. In fact, they even said this very thing in the Halloween developer live stream.

Smith.1826:

Lookit all these splithairs!

Anyways: GW1 was definitely rough, and GW2 could’ve rounded those edges out. It didn’t.

Not sure if you’re missing my point or not. Guild Wars 2 is, all around, a more ambitious and larger project than Guild Wars 1 was. And by adding things like mail and a marketplace, it did indeed round some of the edges..but each of those systems is brand new and has edges of its own.

The OP is trying to make a very specific point…which is people forget. They look back at Guild Wars 1 8 years in and think about how good it was…and you know…for it’s time it was good.

But it was also lacking in a lot of ways that people seem willing to forgive…where as if something is missing from Guild Wars 2, it’s a major oversight and how can a game possibly release without these must-have features.

I think the OP is right in suggesting just how many features this game did launch with, and how much work has been done improving those core features since launch.

I don’t think anyone here is saying the game has no faults or deficiencies. All that’s being said is that progress HAS been made since Guild Wars 1.

serialkicker.5274:

rhapsody.3615:

serialkicker.5274:

declan.3968:

No, just no.

I have a full time day job and only play this game for around 10+ hours a week, and I’m thankful that I can use a small portion of my salary to substitute for wasting hours in a game.

Oh sure, if declan thinks “no”, then, who are we to argue…
Screw the people who can’t afford to put money in virtual money… Right?

The option is there for gems to gold. It isn’t fair to judge people who use a feature that is available to them. People play a game in different ways and get satisfaction from playing that way. If throwing some money each weak into the gem store is making someone enjoy the game, then that’s fine and it isn’t up to you or anybody else to decide it’s wrong.

Please first read op post and the post that replier is replying to.
I have nothing against gemstore or anet putting items on gemstore or people spending real money on gem store. What i meant is, that skins or gear shouldn’t be available ONLY trough gemstore. Sure, maybe some stuff here and then, but anet keep putting new stuff on gemstore and almost none that could be obtained trough playing the game, unless it’s ridiculous rng, like black lion chest.
And i was repling to declan, because he says, he has a job and can afford to buy gems, therofore screw other players and op idea is not to be considered, which i disagree with.

There have only ever been three armors in the gem store. That’s because when they come out with three armors it’s a set, one heavy, one medium, and one light.

There are far more armors in the game. There are 8 sets of dungeon armor, for example. There are also at least a couple of sets of crafted armor. And there’s armor that drops from mobs and armor you can buy with karma and badges of honor.

I’m not sure that 4 sets of armor in a year (one of which I believe was here from launch) is particularly overkill.

rizzo.1079:

I don’t feel like she’s the personal nemesis of any of my PC’s. If anything, she’s the nemesis of Queen Jenna since it seems that she specifically wrecked the festival to get at her. She hasn’t actually done anything specifically to any of my PC’s as far as I remember.

She didn’t do as much damage as Zhaitan did, perhaps, but she does sort of attack zones in all areas of the world. Queen Jennah is the Krytan Queen, but she was also behind the assassination of a Lion’s Arch Captain, which is not specifically a human city but a city of all races. And she does assault pretty much every zone.

I guess my question for you is this: what did Zhaitan do you to personally?

She’s an enemy of the free people’s of the world. She’s attacked two major cities and all of our territories. Oh, and she sent you a bomb. I’d say that’s pretty personal. lol

Response to Ashen:

1-2) So now you’re separating game types from features. Which means you’re only talking about very specific quality of life upgrades and nothing else? And that’s somehow more important than this giant WvW mode? Because ultimately, time spent in development requires content and quality of life things and you often have to choose between them. The personal story is a game feature. It’s a feature of the game. Everyone who played Prophecies has the exact same story and same missions as everyone else. The only difference was a few (very few) profession specific quests that frankly weren’t all that enthralling. Other than that, a million people playing Prophecies all did the exact same thing. So Anet only had to develop for them 25 missions for everyone. That’s it. We’re talking about the creation of features here, and I’m saying that making something like that is a huge amount of resources, which might otherwise be directed to other quality of life updates if it didn’t exist…but it does exist.

3) The account wallet is a bit different than a place to store currencies. For example, if I had a character that had 5 gold on him and I needed 10 gold and that gold was on another character, I’d have to log into the second character, get to a chest and deposit the money, then log in on back in on the second character and take the money out again. And there was no way at all to transfer money between a pre character and a character not in pre. This goes along with what the OP is saying. People don’t remember how cumbersome it was. It’s the same with when you get lunar tokens on 10 different characters and you have to go to the chest for each one and put them all in and take them out on the character you want to buy fortunes with. Or any of the other currencies that existed.

4) Guild Wars 1 wasn’t an MMO and the entire game was instanced. Since that architecture is competely different from Guild Wars 1, you’d do better to compare this to other actual MMOs like Rift and SWToR. Those who spent hours waiting in queues for those games might say that overflow servers are a good thing. Those who couldn’t play with their friends on other servers in those games, well, they might say these were good things. These are quality of life features that are by no means standard in the MMO space, and I think most people probably forget that.

5) I’ll give you this one, even though “crafting” in Guild Wars 1 was a pale thing compared to crafting in Guild Wars 2. And that crafting was severely limited. Armor and weapons only, a few consumables. It wasn’t what I’d call a robust system, by any means. And as long as we’re on quality of life features, if you’re crafting in Guild Wars 2, you have access to all your crafting mats and your bank right there at the crafting station. How many times in Guild Wars 1 did I go to a crafter, forget something, have to run back to my bank, realize I didn’t have enough gold, forget something else, have to run back? That’s exactly the kind of quality of life feature that Guild Wars 2 has that was completely missing from Guild Wars 1.

6) While some Guilds did socialize in the Guild Hall, I was in a number of Guilds in my time in Guild Wars 1, and I didn’t see any of them. Most of us socialized in the world while we played. If you didn’t GvG and I didn’t, the Guild hall was a convenience place to get some stuff you might have needed. Of course, the skills guy there only had the most basic skills and if you wanted other skills, you’d have to teleport all over the world to buy them. Remember when you were making a new build you saw mentioned and you had to hit five outposts to get all the skills you needed?

7) The direct trading feature was something that was hit and miss with me. It was convenient for friends and guildies, but I didn’t love finding a single guy in Kamadan standing around, and having to run over to him. Remember, Guild Wars 1 didn’t have mail. Direct trade could only be done by standing next to someone. In Guild Wars 2 we have a mail system which allows you to send something to a guildie without being in the same zone.

This is what I think the OP is talking about. You mention some things from Guild Wars 1 as if they were finished products that worked perfectly. Would you really go back to having to be next to someone to send them something? Is that really a feature that is so lacking that mail doesn’t suffice to replace it?

The OP is trying to say that people are forgetting just how “primitive” (for lack of a better word) Guild Wars 1 was.

I don’t think I’d like to play a game with no marketplace or mail system again, or a game that forced me to run back to the bank every time I wanted to get a currency on a different character.

I’m not saying Guild Wars 1 wasn’t a great game…but it’s not the kind of feature-rich perfection that people seem to remember it as being.

I think that’s the OP’s point.

Vayne.8563:

Not everyone plays games to get loot or skins. I don’t. I have skins, obviously and I enjoy them. But I don’t play to get them. For example, I enjoyed beating all the dungeon paths in this game. I didn’t do it to grind for skins though. I did it because I wanted to beat all the dungeon paths in the game.

I’d much rather buy a skin than grind for a skin, even though I’m capable of grinding for a skin. Doing each dungeon once is enough for me…or a few times for dungeons I like. Doing a dungeon 9 times to get my legendary proves nothing. After the first three or four times I beat it, I know I can beat a dungeon at will. What does doing it again and again prove?

I’d much rather be able to spend real money (or farm gold doing what I want) and buy armor, than grind for it in game.

Logically speaking, if they put armor in the game that you don’t have to grind for, and you can just get for free, why would anyone buy that set from the cash shop?

Armors in games…at least the “higher end skins” for lack of a better word, are usually something you have to work toward in game…which for many equates to grind. If they’re giving away really cool skins, then they can’t really sell skins…certainly not that easily.

In MMOs, time = money. You spend time farming or grinding or at least playing to get the stuff you want. If you don’t grind or farm it generally takes longer (which is generally how I play).

Anet is just giving people an option that isn’t grinding or farming. I don’t see how they can just put free armor out in the game without having to work for it somehow. And I suspect if they did, the value of that armor for most people would be pretty small.

It’s sort of like CoF armor skins. Most people don’t care about them because they’re so easy to get.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Who, besides you, is talking of content numbers?. My post was and is about a few features that should be in this game by now. Particle control being an issue since beta in this game, more than any other MMO I have played and exacerbated by the reactive combat mechanics.

You are talking numbers. I’m talking features. At this point in time, which game had guild halls and which does not for one example. Which game had an entirely new story added that was not short term and time gated? And that is just comparing “year old” GW and GW2.

Everquest 2, at one year, had 2 adventure pack expansions and a full expansion, and a full expansion added every year, roughly, since launch. (and seriously, you do not want to compare “amount of content” between the two at one year.)

By this time we should be seeing quality of gameplay features added that don’t link to content, class, LS, or anything else but enjoyment of the game. Particle control would be one, Configurable UI, another, Guild halls? Guild management? Features that this game needs regardless of what other games have, or have not. Features that would have a lasting impact for all, as compared to Crazy Poison Ivy jumping out of bushes and going “bwaa haa haa”

Ah, you’re talking about features. My bad completely. Stuff like an auction house, an account wallet, a format of PvP like WvW, a personal story, an actual LFG tool, multiple races to play. Those are all features too. And then there’s stuff like overflow servers and guesting (something most MMOs don’t have). For that matter crafting is a feature that Guild Wars 2 has that Guild Wars 1 doesn’t.

Because there’s no Guild vs Guild in this game (the main feature guild halls were used for in Guild Wars 1), the work that would have went into that went instead into WvW, which is another feature. You may not like it, but I think WvW is better on the whole than most of the PvP available in Guild Wars 1.

In other words you’ve mentioned a couple of things you’d like to see in the game (fair enough by all counts), while ignoring the features that are already in the game as if they’re not already there.

If you gave me a choice of say a marketplace or a guild hall, there would be no contest. Or a mail system, which also didn’t exist in Guild Wars 1. Even Guild missions didn’t exist in Guild Wars 1.

Do I think the guild options need more work? Sure. I do. 100% true. I agree that it needs more work. Do I agree that guild halls, once you removed GvG from them, is a rush priority that the game couldn’t have launched without? That I don’t believe.

There are features lacking in this game. There are also features present in this game that are still absent from Guild Wars 1 to this day, including a bank tab specifically for miniatures.

There can always be more features and more features when they come will indeed be welcome. But I don’t think this game as substantially less features than most other games out for a similar period of time…that’s all I’m saying.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Shrug. The game is a year old. But, persist on comparing it as “Brand New” to Proph at launch. Forget that at one year, Factions was introduced. Compare year old games to year old games at least.

Time is running out on the “but it’s a new game” thing.

I agree with you. This game is a year old….but it had more content at launch than Guild Wars Prophecies and Guild Wars Factions had put together.

The exception to this is SPvP. The structured PvP is this game is clearly more limited than the structured PvP in Guild Wars 1. But in PvE, this game has far more content. If you take the game pre Fractals, it had more content than Guild Wars 1 at this point in time…and we’re talking far more, not just a little.

Not everyone plays games to get loot or skins. I don’t. I have skins, obviously and I enjoy them. But I don’t play to get them. For example, I enjoyed beating all the dungeon paths in this game. I didn’t do it to grind for skins though. I did it because I wanted to beat all the dungeon paths in the game.

I’d much rather buy a skin than grind for a skin, even though I’m capable of grinding for a skin. Doing each dungeon once is enough for me…or a few times for dungeons I like. Doing a dungeon 9 times to get my legendary proves nothing. After the first three or four times I beat it, I know I can beat a dungeon at will. What does doing it again and again prove?

I’d much rather be able to spend real money (or farm gold doing what I want) and buy armor, than grind for it in game.

holodoc.5748:

Vayne.8563:

It’s not just about technology though. It’s about time/energy/money too. Simply put, this game launched with more quests (dynamic events) than all the quests from all Guild Wars games put together. They came out with Guild Wars Prophecies and it had well under 300 quests. This game has 300 hearts, and 1500 dynamic events.

Even if the numbers are correct (which I personally doubt after spending so much time in PvE) it doesn’t change the fact that all the dynamic events and renown hearts are nothing else than simply baby-sitting the locals. There is nothing “renown” about GW2 hearts because Joe will forget about you feeding his cows the moment you receive your reward. In GW1 quests actually felt like you are making a difference because instances offered a way of changing your environment according to your progression (i.e. if you complete the battle for Lion’s Arch you’ll immediately see a reduced number of White Mantle patrols etc.) You were not stuck in one zone until you reach 100% completion unlike GW1 where constant rezoning actually prevented people from getting bored.

In the end going all philosophical about GW1 vs GW2 is pointless. Why? Well, I spent countless hours discussing about that with my friends which I know from GW1. Most of them have stopped playing GW2 a long time ago but it was interesting to see that our discussion led us to a very interesting conclusion – GW1 and GW2 are simply not aimed for the same audience.

GW1 was essentially a heavy RPG story-driven experience which offered people a unique chance to experience all the fine aspects of the game together. It didn’t bother too much to incorporate any of the MMO “features” and “standards” which made it even more immersive for the RPG fans. A mature, dark and well written game which you can experience with your friends all over again in so many different ways. What’s not to like about that?

GW2 eventually became something that a lot of GW1 fans, myself included, didn’t want it to become – an MMO. Switching focus from a “multiplayer RPG game” to an MMO also meant a lot of compromises. Too much as far as some people are concerned. Content quality and quantity suddenly had to switch places because unlike RPG folks which don’t mind waiting for new quality content an MMO requires of you to keep people occupied with stuff to do or they’ll simply leave the game (a bad idea if your business model depends on micro-transactions). That doesn’t necessarily need to be a bad thing simply not something that doesn’t fit well with some of the GW1 folks.

The numbers are taken from Guild Wars 2 and Guild Wars 1 press releases.

This is the wiki page for Guild Wars: Prophecies…you’ll note it had 205 quests…most of which weren’t repeatable at all. And we know it had 25 missions

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_Prophecies

We know there are 301 hearts in Guild Wars 2, because it says so on the map screen. It was said by Anet numerous times that there are over 1500 dynamic events in the game. I can find a quote if you insist.

Hearts were not supposed to replace quests and aren’t really there to be compared to quests. Hearts were placed in the game very late in the piece, in order to get people to stay for a bit in areas where dynamic events spawn. The term “renown”, well yes, you get known to the heart person you helped, which is why you can then use them as merchants and get things from them.

There are 130 people in my guild and more than half of them played Guild Wars 1. Most of them enjoy Guild Wars 2. In fact most of them are here since launch.

I wouldn’t even call Guild Wars 1 a trinity game...certainly not in PvE anyway. In all my years in Guild Wars 1 PvE, I cant’ remember ever using a tank. There’s certainly no taunt mechanic or any way to guarantee that you hold aggro.

Just about the only true tanking experience I can remember from Guild Wars 1 (at least tanking as people refer to it from other games) is a dual farm of the first groups in FoW, the shadow army.

We’d have a permasin go in and grab aggro and they stay alive, while an ele used AOE spells like meteorstorm back to back (didn’t draw aggro because they targeted an area not a foe), until all the shadow guys were dead. It was a way to farm obby shards back in the day, and though it was slowish, it worked.

Beyond that, I don’t consider Guild Wars 1 a trinity game at all.

My objection to the trinity, and I’ve said this before, is how artificial it is. How exciting would Lord of the Rings been if anyone only ever attacked Boromir while Gandalf healed him. I’m thinking not very. It’s a completely artificial construct that kills the drama in games. It adds a completely different game-like challenge, but for immersion or story telling, or just feeling like you’re actually part of an epic battle, it fails for me personally.

The idea that some super powerful megafoe is too stupid to attack the healer and he’s allowing himself to be taunted so he ignores everything but one guy just doesn’t feel right to me.

Nick.6972:

Stack next to foot, spam DPS and occasional heal, zone res.
Real challenge right there.

Sure you can do that…but you’re not winning the fight doing that. The fight is won by the people on the guns and the people protecting the people on the guns. Not that the DPS isn’t important in that fight, but it’s only one aspect of it.

Much like if you were DPSing in any game, you wouldn’t think necessarily about what the tank and healer are doing…but it doesn’t mean they’re not doing it.

I don’t think Anet has made one bad decision after another (not to say they haven’t made bad decisions). I just think that making decisions that please everyone is nigh on impossible. Take the Living World Stuff as an example.

Now, I loved the Bazaar of the Four Winds update. I loved two of the three minigames it introduced, I loved the setup of the place, and I liked the whole election thing.

I also, however, liked the Tequatl battle and while a lot of people don’t, there are people who play this game and really enjoy that fight. And many don’t.

And I really liked the new path of Twilight Arbor. To me that’s the best dungeon in the game to date with the possible exception of some of the fractals. And a lot of people do like the new path of Twilight Arbor.

Content is coming out every two weeks, and some of it is going to be better than others. My two biggest issues with what’s come out is the amount of mats you need to level your crafting to 500 before you can even start working on an ascended weapon and the frequency of release of content which I think is too often. I feel like I never have time to relax and play the game because there’s always something else I want to do that has to be done within a specified time frame.

Whether I like that content or not is not all that relevant to me. I’d prefer to do content on my own schedule and have time for other stuff I enjoy. I think people will eventually get burned out from this pace.

But no, I don’t think Anet has made as many bad decisions as the OP seems to be implying. I just think not all of their decisions work for all of their players.

Bright.9160:

Danikat.8537:

Considering we’ve got people talking about how good the story and AI was in GW1 and holding Kormir up as an example of good AI I think it’s safe to say the answer to the OP’s question is no, people don’t remember.

I hated the NF story, but loved Factions and Nightfall.

And I don’t know if you remember, but Kormir was an afk NPC. I was not hailing her for her AI. I was saying that it was nice that her presence was completely irrelevant to the completion of your missions.

Except when she kills a Sunspear ghost and you lose the bonus.