Your best bet is to give this game more time if you are thinking about coming back. Currently the only thing going for this game is WvW (and those who enjoy sPVP). Sure they release content every two weeks but I don’t care about living story – it’s boring to me. I’m sure if I sat down and looked it over it wouldn’t be so bad.
Problem with the Living Story is if you come back, you can’t enjoy what already came. Also the server performance in WvW is really, really bad. I don’t know the future of this game, but from what I see it doesn’t look good. Unless this company is able to pull a trick out of their hats and really drill down to fixing issues, I don’t see this game getting better.
GW2 is not a bad game, but the development, bug fixes and updates to the Fractals (and other areas) leaves a lot to be said.
Honestly, after seeing what kind of grind the Living Story really is, I have absolutely no desire to log on to experience it. I missed Halloween last year and will most likely miss it this year.
It was the same grind last year pretty much. Maybe not for the skins, but for everything else. In fact, arguably last year it was worse grind, because pumpkin carving was one of the achievements, and that was dull as dishwater.
Wait, what? Why would they release a manifesto for public consumption that is not crystal clear and requires “interpretation?”
What was stated was the selling point for the entire game for me.
According to some people here, it was easy to understand everything that was being talked about in the Manifesto. And also according to them, everyone followed GW2 like a piranha prior to release and knew everything and everything about the game.
Amusing right?
Oh it sure is. People need to realize that a lot of people that bought the game were new to the Guild Wars franchise. I sure was. I only learned about in August 2012 through another MMO forum, saw the manifesto and thought to myself: “Cool. This seems like a game I would really enjoy!”
I took a break last November due to IRL issues, came back around around 6 weeks ago, and I feel like I’m a sucker who fell for a bait-and-switch.
And which part of the game exactly that made you feel this way? I really cannot see anything that would make me feel like I’m a sucker for playing GW2. I have gripes, but none that would have me declare such deep disdain for it with the pretext that is the manifesto. Grind you say? There’s grind in almost every RPG out there. And this one has by far the least feel of grind.
I do know that people will retort by saying “do you even have any idea how much mats would be required to craft ascended/legs, etc?”. And I will say this, you don’t need those gear to do PvE, dungeons, WvW.. You can participate in them with an adequate understanding of your class/build with a mix of rares and masterworks. It feels grindy because you’re always in a state of utter desire for the best stuff the game has to offer.
Sure, no doubt there is a slight edge in ascended equipment, but that there is end game content man. If all you’re focused about is gear, you’re missing out on the real meat of this game, and that is the helpful and very obliging game community.
I feel like a sucker because I bought into their statements about top tier gear being easily accessible and all of the horizontal progression nonsense.
Yeah, I can do WvW in exotics. I can also do it in fine gear. Would I want to? No, because fighting other players should be about skill and class knowledge, and not who had more time to grind out ascended. Of course you’ll say that ascended gear only offers a minor stat increase (untrue because weapons give you 6-10% more damage depending on spec). But okay, let’s just assume it’s a “minor stat increase”. If it’s so minor that it seemingly doesn’t matter, why not cap WvW gear at the exotic level?
Yep, this did actually change. They did actually say this. It was said at least twice during interviews. People quote that all the time.
It wasn’t, however, said in the manifesto.
You sound like my lawyer, and I like him.
But I am not testing stuff, I read the results, check ’em, and then I normally send the stuff back and say:
That’s not what has been advertised, if you sell this stuff like it is, you get in trouble.
I remember that anyone could ask for a refund last November. ANet did this for a reason, they probably feared to get sued for false advertisement. Now you could say it was just a generous move towards their customers, but hey, generousity and economy are just not two things that get along together well.
Ah, btw, I also speek three languages fluently (one being an Asian one) and I read lawyer stuff every bloody week. I know the meaning of words and the flexibilty they offer.
This doesn’t make the game less grindy though…
Right, but less grindy has nothing, in my opinion to do the with manifesto. I wish I could find the Eric Flannum quote where he said there would be stuff to grind for in the game for people who like that play style.
You’re interpreting the word grind one way and one way only as used in the manifesto. I’m interpreting it in the traditional sense of the word, as it was originally used. The killing of creatures to level. That’s what grind originally was. People made it sound like it meant all sorts of other things, but even the main definition on wikipedia supports my definition. And with the words around it, I can’t see, honestly, how anyone can assume anything but that definition. They’re talking about fun things to do before you reach max level. We want people to have fun things to do, rather than a boring grind before we get to the fun things. That’s ALL that was being said. You’d have a whole lot of trouble proving in court they meant otherwise, and from the context and everything being said, I think you’d be wrong to try.
You have a pre-existing definition of grind. You think grind means gear grind. But no one talked about gear grind in the early days of the language. Grind always meant leveling. It’s always meant leveling to me. Without the usage of the word gear or vertical progression or anything like that, using grind to mean gear grind is, in my opinion, ill-advised.
So, as a professional editor, I look and see what was being talked about in the first usage of the word grind “in most games you have this annoying grind before you get to the fun stuff”. Not before you get to better gear. Before you get to the fun stuff. In other words, you have to level before you raid.
And Colin has said exactly that same stuff afterwards on more than one convention panel. You may not remember that, but I sure do.
So I’m saying your interpretation of what was meant by the words is due to your understanding of the definition of a single word. Anet couldn’t have been sued for false advertising, unless you could prove that they meant what you said, instead of what I’ve understood from the beginning.
Glad to see you’re enjoying the game.
You know, get a lot of the complaints…I really do. I just feel that sometimes, people see the details and miss the big picture. Overall, the game is a good game. Some individual decisions made by Anet, and particularly how those decisions were communicated, have caused a quite a stir on the forums.
But I’m pretty sure the loudest voices here are no longer the majority here. Keep enjoying the game. For some of us, it’s the only MMORPG worth playing.
Not saying this game is going down or anything just telling what I and a lot of other old gw1 players feel. If ya majority think everything is fine and like the game, please enjoy:)
The problem is there are a lot of old Guild Wars 1 players who quite like this game. And while I agree that the game is quite different from Guild Wars 1, there was a point in time, actually quite a fast point in time, when everything was explored and until a new expansion came out, that was pretty much it. All you were left with was making new builds and farming old areas.
I think people are viewing the past through rose-colored glasses.
I also ultimately think Guild Wars 2 will be more successful than Guild Wars 1. I think it will make more money and it will have a bigger fan base.
Not to say it’s perfect, because it’s not, but there are plenty of people who played and enjoyed Guild Wars 1 who also play and enjoy Guild Wars 2.
No, I work through a list that is given to me as a QA in the first step.
I check the list, then I check the product. I see the facts. I evaluate them.
Best gear easy to get for a casual (5h playtime a week). No.
Do content relevant bosses respawn in short time frames. Yes.
“Grinding is no fun, so we do not want people to grind.” statement. FalseI don’t care about testing, or editing, I check he hard facts. And in this matter, ANet has failed his own Manifesto.
And I worked as a professional editor. I’m not 100% sure your work in testing makes you more qualified to understand what’s being said in the manifesto than my work as an editor.
You state things as fact that aren’t fact. I’m simply saying it’s a matter of opinion.
I guess it will be for others to decides which of us is more reasonable or more likely correct.
This is an older story, that happened to one of my guildies while I was on mumble with him.
He’s doing map completion in Snowden drifts and ends up falling off a cliff. He has a sliver of health left, and he lands near an ice elemental and he freaks. So he’s running for dear life, and the thing isn’t leashing…and he’s yelling in mumble, it’s not leashing, it’s not leashing…then he starts laughing.
He was playing an elementalist and it was his own elemental that spawned at the bottom of the cliff when he fell.
We were hysterical.
Edit: A story I just remembered from CM. We were doing CM and there’s a corridor with two doors on the side with turrets and a couple of obnoxious rifleman with a bomber at the long end. Normally it’kitten and miss in this corridor if people don’t know the dungeon. It can wipe parties. It’s much easier to get past them around the corner and then attack from behind.
So I said to my group, okay stay here and watch this. And I’m running down the corridor on my mesmer, perfect feedback, blocking projectiles, blink past them and dodge to the side, throw down my portal so they could get through…perfect. I was uber.
So I said, okay come on. They’re like what, run down the corridor. I’m like ummm no, use the portal. They’re like what portal? Like a total idiot, I forgot to lay down the first portal before I started my run.
Such a beautiful moment ruined by incompetence…but the guild got a good laugh.
(edited by Vayne.8563)
I don’t think you should come back. Clearly it’s all about rewards to some people, rewards are the only thing that matters, and if it’s not that way, you’re not going to be happy.
For example, there’s a new dungeon path for Twilight Arbor that’s been released. It’s harder than some other paths in other dungeons, but I think it’s a much better dungeon than most. But reward-wise its’ not much better than any other dungeon.
I think people who play for rewards are the least satisfied with this game. People who play because they’re enjoying themselves and don’t really care much about the rewards seem to be happier.
I agree completely. I enjoy every second with this game and although there are times when I’m frustrated with the fruits of my success it never takes long for me to forget why I was upset. There’s so much to do in this game it’s hard for me to grasp why so many people complain about it sometimes. I understand the quest for achieving a maxed out character but what happens when you get there? Nothing… Enjoy the road and soak in the game. Some may disagree but of the games I’ve played Guild Wars 2 is by a generous stretch the most gorgeous and well designed game I’ve played. Not only that, considering it’s size and the detail put in to it it’ never ceases to amaze me how infrequent freezing, glitches or bugs will happen. You would think with the immensity of the world there would be more obvious discrepancies but they’re actually quite rare.
So in closing, no. If you’re in it for the loot you should not come back. The game will from time to time reward you greatly for your triumph but the real reward is in the battle and exploration itself.
Yep…I get frustrated with stuff too sometimes. Today I did the Melandru Temple event but the chest didn’t spawn for me. Sort of annoying. But it’s not that hard, and I did get champion boxes from the spiders that spawn there, so not a complete loss. Still, it was annoying.
It wasn’t annoying for long. A while later, I was doing other stuff and having fun again. It’s only a big deal if you make it a big deal.
For the most part, I’m having a ball.
You would think the Manifesto was the Holy Bible or something. Do people worship this thing and offer ritual sacrifices to it?
The manifesto listed Anet’s core ideals and intentions for the game. Many many people bought the game based on these words. To many people, Anet has gone back or even turned 180 degrees on many of those words — that’s why they feel betrayed. It’s as simple as that.
I completely agree with you.
As the saying goes, “if you don’t want to tell the truth, than don’t say a word”
Simple as that!!
This is a pretty simplified version of reality.
I was going to take the kids to the movies one day. I told the kids I was going to take them to the movies. Then I got a call from work and had to go in. Naturally, my kids were disappointed. Because I told them I was taking them somewhere and couldn’t take them.
Ah, but did you tell them “sorry, something came up” or continued to claim that “the move will be great, you’ll see” while already knowing that they won’t see it? Because so far Anet is definitely not ready to acknowledge there were any significant changes to the original design.
With this community? LMAO!
I don’t think anything they said or did would have helped…though some of the effect might have been mitigated. There are no easy or right ways to deal with that situation. No matter what you do, there’ll be a fall out. Saying the wrong thing or not exactly the right thing is just dangerous.
I’m sure someone took a risk assessment of the situation and decided that saying nothing was better. I’m not sure that they’re right, but they had reasons for not saying things.
I see it as what it is. Maybe because I am old and I have seen so much before.
Maybe because I work in QA, so I have learnt to see what things are promoted as and what they really are.Maybe it is my super power. I just don’t try too hard to make something a thing that it isn’t.
This game is a grind for the best gear. This games bosses in the living story (replacement for personal story that failed) respawn every few minutes. Nothing you will ever say will change it.
I see it as what it is too, because I’m old and worked part of my life as an editor, and have done alpha testing a quite a few software products (but not games). I have the ability, like most editors, to switch off my preconceptions and just see what’s there.
You’re probably not older than me, you’re probably not more experienced than me, and anyone who “sees things as they are” is wrong. You see things through a filter of your perceptions just like everyone else on the planet.
Anyone who thinks they can see anything completely objectively is fooling themselves.
Since this was ignored, I’ll post it again. Because it’s left me a bit confused
1. People who like ascended claim that the power increase is supposedly minor at best.
2. We can’t cap WvW at an exotic gear level because that would invalidate all the “hard work” people put into getting their little pink weapons/armor.
3. Supporters also claim that ascended doesn’t matter in WvW because WvW is balanced around things other than player stats.So if the power increase is “minor at best” and WvW is balanced around things other than player power, then why are you wasting your time grinding these weapons out? Why are you resistant to capping WvW gear at the exotic level?
Actually I agree…I think WvW should be capped at exotic stats. I don’t think that a competitive format of any kind should be influenced by people who have so much more time than money.
But I don’t think it’s a big deal either. It’s clearly a bigger deal if you roam or solo, though.
I just see the game for what it is, and it is no longer true to the Manifesto.
I love the game, I am a hardcore player (as my /age shows 4 digits in hours and my APs are 90% crew high).
I can easily get all the stuff. Why would I care?I just think it is ridiculous to defend something, that has changed so much, that it is no longer true, simple story.
The Manifesto is dead, long live what we have now.
I disagree that the game is no longer true to the manifesto. The only line I really have a problem with was a line that was up for grabs in the first place.
The manifesto is 3 years old. It was a statement of intent. It’s been three years.
Do you know the enough already law?
The more you run over a dead cat, the flatter it gets.
Edit: BTW saying you see the game for what it is would actually be insulting if anyone stopped to think about it. You mean your view is clearer/better/smarter than anyone else’s view, because you see it how it is. No. You see it from your vantage point or how it is to you. I see it how it is to me.
No one sees the game as it is, because everyone filters perception through experience and personal preference.
areanet has become another blizzard, disappointed me again with sequel, I am sorry, but gw2 is really boring LOL
Yep, they’re another blizzard because they disappointed you.
A lot of people apparently don’t find it boring. Maybe it’s just an incompatibility with your playstyle, which is fair enough. But you know,. I think it would take more than disappointed a single person or even a bunch of people to make Anet like Blizzard. Like you know, many millions of dollars, for starters.
So let me ask this question to those who think it’s cheating.
Let’s say that a PvE’er who wants achievement points and is trying to be on a PvE leaderboard, wants the PvP achievement points too. Keep in mind PvP already has it’s own leaderboard.
So what you’d rather have is a guy who is absolutely godawful at PvP going into a PvP arena and screwing up your game to get his points? Do you think you’d be happy to have that PvE guy on your team?
I used to do that. I used to PvP to get my daily PvP achievements, but I stopped because I wasnt’ enjoying it.
Now, I could go into an empty arena just to farm those points (I don’t). But I know for a fact that any team I joined to do it legitimately would suffer…and I don’t have enough interest to look up SPvP specific builds or “get better” at SPvP.
So what you’re arguing for is either guys on your side who suck or guys you can essentially get cheap free kills from.
Is that really better?
Anet needs to remove SPvP achievement points from the general leaderboard. That would solve that problem fast.
Yep, I was really happy about the upgrade to existing golems, because I have a lot of alts. A 2 week golem is definitely more useful to me than a five day one.
I can guarantee you back in November, before the introduction of Fractals, it wasn’t working.
I can guarantee
guarantee
Now, Vayne, you know can do no such thing – but here you are saying you can anyway. Hey! Something very familiar about this…
You can say that you think it was going find and would have been fine, but your investment in time and money pales compared to Anet’s investment in time and money. Everyone is always willing to suggest you risk your time and money. Very few people are willing to significantly risk theirs.
Hmm. Well. I think I’ll have another cup of coffee. Maybe a snack cake. I’ve got some raisin cream pies. What have you got there? Go get something! Let’s do brunch.
No, I can guarantee it. Weren’t you around back then? Did you see the number of posts on the forums about nothing to do at 80. They were an epidemic, not just on this forum but on the one I moderated. It was like a huge wave of posts about it.
People don’t play for fun. They play because there’s something to work towards/for…and most people can’t set there own goals.
So yeah, I can guarantee. You don’t have to believe. Instead you’d rather believe what? That Anet sold the game one way, had a huge base of fans that loved it, and changed it for no reason whatsoever, kitten ing off their most loyal fans in the process? For what reason? Is that really what you believe.
It’s a fact that the game was supposed to not have vertical progression at launch. It’s a fact that Anet was pretty clear about that. It’s a fact that they knew people would be upset at the change (core fans) because they said so. Those are all facts. They knew there’s be an outcry. They did it anyway. Any reasonable person would ask why.
I mean if the game was doing great and fine and dandy, why add ascended anything? Can you think of a reason.
Some people tried to say it was greed, except ascended stuff is account bound and you can’t buy it with cash, particularly when it first came out. You could only get it from fractals. So greed wasn’t the reason.
What’s your opinion then? Why would Anet do, kitten many people have said, a complete 180 that was guaranteed to kitten off a large percentage of their fan base?
I’m willing to listen to your theories on this.
I guess we’ll have to disagree about the story. I don’t think it could have been written by 12 year olds. I agree they’re not aiming at high drama, mind you, but writing stuff for 12 year olds is a lot harder than writing stuff for adults. Much harder, actually.
The storyline is fine. It’s not meant to be ultra serious and dark. Actually I find younger people tend to object to that more than older people, which I find a bit ironic.
For example, when you’re young and serious and still think the world is a tragedy instead of a comedy, you tend to think in terms of all this silliness as being child-like. But after a lifetime of tragedy, child-like ain’t so bad. There’s enough dark stuff in the world….a bit of light-hearted levity (like the Halloween stuff and even Scarlet) doesn’t perturb me at all.
And I don’t think the quality of the writing or voice acting is as bad as most people make out.
That said, it may not be to your taste. That’s another matter entirely.
What do you think of the voice acting in personal story? I think it was verry boring cutscenes and Trahaernes voice had no emotion just verry bland.
Trahearne wasn’t a general. He was a scholar. He’s who he is. He doesn’t have an inspiring or heroic voice. It is bland. Is that bad? I don’t know. I don’t really care, because not everyone needs to be hercules to me.
However, you’re not talking about new stuff, you’re talking about old stuff now, stuff that was in the game from launch and before launch. I think Scarlet’s voice acting is excellent. You might not like the character, but you can’t fault the voice acting for it. It’s very good.
Some of the other voice overs we’ve had since have been good too. For example, most people loved the cut scene that was from Dragon Bash. It got a lot of great reviews.
The Mad King Thorn and Prince Edrick voices are overdone intentionally and pretty much what you’d expect.
I don’t know about you, OP, but I regularly kill stuff 2 levels above me, on pretty much every profession. I’m not thinking that that 60th level should mean a 61st level creature should be so much beyond you.
Admittedly different people have different skill sets, or just play less…but if you make sure your armor and weapons are updated, a 60th level character should have no problem at all in a 61 area.
I guess we’ll have to disagree about the story. I don’t think it could have been written by 12 year olds. I agree they’re not aiming at high drama, mind you, but writing stuff for 12 year olds is a lot harder than writing stuff for adults. Much harder, actually.
The storyline is fine. It’s not meant to be ultra serious and dark. Actually I find younger people tend to object to that more than older people, which I find a bit ironic.
For example, when you’re young and serious and still think the world is a tragedy instead of a comedy, you tend to think in terms of all this silliness as being child-like. But after a lifetime of tragedy, child-like ain’t so bad. There’s enough dark stuff in the world….a bit of light-hearted levity (like the Halloween stuff and even Scarlet) doesn’t perturb me at all.
And I don’t think the quality of the writing or voice acting is as bad as most people make out.
That said, it may not be to your taste. That’s another matter entirely.
I don’t think you should come back. Clearly it’s all about rewards to some people, rewards are the only thing that matters, and if it’s not that way, you’re not going to be happy.
For example, there’s a new dungeon path for Twilight Arbor that’s been released. It’s harder than some other paths in other dungeons, but I think it’s a much better dungeon than most. But reward-wise its’ not much better than any other dungeon.
I think people who play for rewards are the least satisfied with this game. People who play because they’re enjoying themselves and don’t really care much about the rewards seem to be happier.
Not a single person trying to defend the game at it’s current state on my four points. Good. Looks like we at least agree on those topics.
The Manifesto is gone. It was like a temple but then they decided to destroy the main pillar. The whole thing collapsed and what we see now is a ruin, which some people try to defend with the argument:
“It is technically still a temple even though it lies in ruins…”
Lack of reply doesn’t equal agreement. Some, like me, might feel that talking to someone who doesn’t get what we’re saying (and doesn’t seem likely to) is just a waste of time. I know I have no real desire to reply to most of your posts, even though I disagree with them.
Skins are only available once per day? Per character? I didn’t know this!
It’s also possible, OP, that you need to scroll the window if it’s full. Some stuff might be on the second page.
Who would expect a manufacturer, any manufacturer, to return to something that they felt wasn’t working?
I blame that whole New Coke/Classic Coke thing.
Ah, but there’s a substantive difference if the new thing wasn’t working. The problem is, and people here don’t like it and won’t admit it, the new thing IS working. Anet is happy with the numbers of people logging in and playing. They wouldn’t have added more living story team if they didn’t think this was true.
So they made a change because something wasn’t working and it worked to their satisfaction, and now some people are asking them to change it back to what it was when it wasn’t working.
Some would consider that an unreasonable request.
Obviously the new thing is working – and working stupendously! Otherwise they wouldn’t have rolled out the old-fashioned but charming ‘Class M-3 Model B9’ policy to deal with all the happy customers.
Ahem.
I think the ‘old thing’ was working quite well, and would have continued to work, and would have maintained, once the initial feeding frenzy had run its course, a faithful and steadfast clientele that would have continued to grow over time, if the powers that be had stayed the course.
Unfortunately, it seems that somewhere along the (lunch) line it was determined that (metaphorically speaking) it would be much easier, less expensive, and coincidentally potentially more profitable to dole out peanut butter and jelly sandwiches (and, occasionally, bologna) on a regular basis than to continue producing flavorful gourmet dishes. Beef Wellington? Chicken Marengo? Ain’t nobody got time for that! Now that they’ve got the rotating quad-shift PB&J production line up and running they’ve been able to crank out those sandwiches like rounds from a Gatling gun! Pew pew pew! And the rejoicing of the hungry masses has indeed been a marvel to behold.
Yes. Obviously, it’s working.
sidebar – tyrian equivalents: beef beetletun? chicken khylo?
Wow, look, a handful of guys on the forums are ruining it for everyone. There’s only one thing that will tell them if it’s working or not, and forum bellyaching ain’kitten
If they’re making money and people are logging in (metrics they have and we don’t) then it’s working.
I can guarantee you back in November, before the introduction of Fractals, it wasn’t working. You can say you think it would have worked and you’d possibly be right, but you can’t know. But we do know there was a much bigger fall off of players, much sooner than expected.
You can say that you think it was going find and would have been fine, but your investment in time and money pales compared to Anet’s investment in time and money. Everyone is always willing to suggest you risk your time and money. Very few people are willing to significantly risk theirs.
You would think the Manifesto was the Holy Bible or something. Do people worship this thing and offer ritual sacrifices to it?
The manifesto listed Anet’s core ideals and intentions for the game. Many many people bought the game based on these words. To many people, Anet has gone back or even turned 180 degrees on many of those words — that’s why they feel betrayed. It’s as simple as that.
I completely agree with you.
As the saying goes, “if you don’t want to tell the truth, than don’t say a word”
Simple as that!!
This is a pretty simplified version of reality.
I was going to take the kids to the movies one day. I told the kids I was going to take them to the movies. Then I got a call from work and had to go in. Naturally, my kids were disappointed. Because I told them I was taking them somewhere and couldn’t take them.
Situations change. You can’t not say anything ever, just in case it might change. That makes no sense.
When Anet made the manifesto, two years before the game released (do you realize how long two years is in this industry) do you have any evidence, even one shred, they they didn’t mean every word.
They tried it that way and it wasn’t working…at least according to their metrics…at least that’s what I can glean from what they said. There were too many people playing the game, hitting 80 and leaving. The game didn’t have any stickiness. Even I felt that it didn’t have any, and I don’t care about that stuff.
Without something to keep people playing, people WILL stop playing and move onto something more sticky.
So let me ask you…if it was your millions of dollars of investment and five years of your life, what would you have done.
I’ll never get people who see everything in black and white.
Who would expect a manufacturer, any manufacturer, to return to something that they felt wasn’t working?
I blame that whole New Coke/Classic Coke thing.
Ah, but there’s a substantive difference if the new thing wasn’t working. The problem is, and people here don’t like it and won’t admit it, the new thing IS working. Anet is happy with the numbers of people logging in and playing. They wouldn’t have added more living story team if they didn’t think this was true.
So they made a change because something wasn’t working and it worked to their satisfaction, and now some people are asking them to change it back to what it was when it wasn’t working.
Some would consider that an unreasonable request.
Even anet themselves said that the manifesto is more of a design guideline that changes over time and shouldn’t be taken literally by now (I’ll try to find a source)
Too bad I found that out after I spent my money in September 2012.
You should have read the information available over a 2 year period prior to the game releasing, instead of just 2 minutes of talking on a video. Anet cannot force you to read all the information they released over the years, that is your own responsibility. IF you buy something off of 1 commercial with no research of your own, and then you end up not liking it, it is only your fault.
Would have made no difference what we read, the changes were added after the game was out, Nov 2012 for me personally. That was the Start of the games downfall in my eyes. I was pretty happy till then, just waited on Balance fixes and new world content etc which never really happened..
And Anet refuneded people who bought the game for months after that, due to that change. There were people who played the game for six months back then who got refunds.
So maybe it’s time to put up or shut up. This has been the game since November as you pointed out. It’s almost a year later and you’re still complaining about changes made a year ago, even though plenty of people are enjoying the game.
You could have left, gotten a refund and been shot of the game. You chose to stay in the vague hope Anet would return to something that wasn’t working in their eyes.
Who would expect a manufacturer, any manufacturer, to return to something that they felt wasn’t working?
It makes no sense.
GettIng Dusk is purely a cosmetic thing. I don’t see why that’s different to what they promised.
Getting Dusk is, but getting Twilight is not. Twilight has higher stats than an exotic.
That’s actually a big lie . In gw1 there was 0 grind and 0 gear progression .
You could have the ugliest looking gear with the same stats as the coolest .
Gw2 is probably less grindy than 95% of Mmos but adding a new
Tier of gear is a grind to me . I can logg back in my gw1 account and
I will have the same stats as somebody who never left gw1 which is not the case for gw2 . If you havent played since launch and you comw back you are undergeared .But it doesn’t mean there was no grind. There was no grind for gear stats. You still can’t say you didn’t have advantages by grinding for other power things. You got advantage even by grinding wisdom, luck and unlucky titles. You got advantage by grinding your Lightbringer, Sunspear, Luxon/Kurzick titles. You got advantage by grinding all four eye of the north titles.
If you don’t remember people asking for rank 8 Ursans, I certainly do.
And if you happened to want Obsidian or Vabbian armor, the grind was legenadry, never mind if you wanted a celestial compass or a frog scepter.
The stats may be the same, but if you wanted the skins, you had to grind.
Didn’t have to grind for r8 eye of the north title. I did regular dungeon and i got all of them maxed. I had celestial compass, obsidian armour along with 4 other type of armour but its nothing compared to gw2
Sorry but all dungeons in Eye of the North awarded deldrimor points, not Norn points which you needed. And grinding dungeons is still grinding no matter what you say. That is to say, if you don’t like running dungeons and many people don’t, you need to grind for those titles.
I say I can get a legendary weapon without grinding, because I can take my time and just get what drops…but it’s going to take a long time. Legendary weapons are obviously grindy. And you were grinding dungeons, presumably to fill books, to get your rank 8 ursan. Which didn’t matter because Luxon/Kurzick, Luck, Wisdom and Lightbringer were all far more grindy anyway.
You don’t get to pick and choose grind. If there’s grind there’s grind. Denying it doesn’t change the fact that it existed.
I’m down in Tassie. The updates usually hit at 3-4 am my time.
Backhanded bragging posts are always fun.
If I were better than everyone else, in the top few percent, I wouldn’t expect someone to make stuff for my level. It’s a bad investment, because there are so few people by percentage at that level.
I personally don’t mind the occasional challenge, but I feel like I’ve had the occasional challenge.
My level 35 have killed several people with ascended and exotic gear, in 1vs1 situations.
Whoa, whoa, whoa…
You’re saying that your level 35, in FINE armour, has beaten level 80’s with Exotic and/or Ascended gear?
Am I supposed to laugh or something?
On topic:
What’s this skill you’re talking about? Having the bigger zerg and facerolling the bar?
It’s true you can beat people with better armor in WvW, cause I’ve done it.
That’s actually a big lie . In gw1 there was 0 grind and 0 gear progression .
You could have the ugliest looking gear with the same stats as the coolest .
Gw2 is probably less grindy than 95% of Mmos but adding a new
Tier of gear is a grind to me . I can logg back in my gw1 account and
I will have the same stats as somebody who never left gw1 which is not the case for gw2 . If you havent played since launch and you comw back you are undergeared .
But it doesn’t mean there was no grind. There was no grind for gear stats. You still can’t say you didn’t have advantages by grinding for other power things. You got advantage even by grinding wisdom, luck and unlucky titles. You got advantage by grinding your Lightbringer, Sunspear, Luxon/Kurzick titles. You got advantage by grinding all four eye of the north titles.
If you don’t remember people asking for rank 8 Ursans, I certainly do.
And if you happened to want Obsidian or Vabbian armor, the grind was legenadry, never mind if you wanted a celestial compass or a frog scepter.
The stats may be the same, but if you wanted the skins, you had to grind.
So why is this open world hidden behind 80 levels? Why not make the whole world an even playfield like it is for level 80s?
Why stop at WvW. Make everyone scale up or down to the area, everyone wins.
It worked for karka island, it works in the labyrinth, why not everywhere?
Because that’d wreck any sense of progression. Its like having a Mario game where world 8 is open to you straight away or a RPG where the first area is the final area, then you can go back and do the other areas. It doesn’t work.
Sure did for GW1
I’d have no qualms with it if they had lowered the level cap and made more areas level 80 zones.
Right now your character’s full potential only comes out in a select number of places.Pretty much, they could’ve just stopped the levels at 15 or 25 and called it a day really, it wouldn’t have changed anything. The number is meaningless, more so in this game.
I know they only did it to appeal to a bigger audience that wouldn’t understand just how meaningless it is right away, and think “wow this game is small only 15 levels”. But it’s just an added hassle to making alts.
If grouping was the best way to level, I could maybe see it. One of the fun things I had in certain MMO’s like CoH or even Champions Online is grouping being the best way to level, thus having to level an alt the fast way meant grouping a ton and just doing stuff, I wish every MMO shared that concept.
Grouping is the best way to level.
You know, after thinking about it, I think these things are too hard to get. I’m convinced.
A sign of the end times, clearly. (I jest, I jest)
Not the first time I’ve changed my mind after thinking about stuff. People clearly don’t get me at all on these forums. Because I have a few really unpopular opinions, people think I’m completely set in my ways. Not really the truth. There are things I feel strongly about…this really isn’t one of them, but I can see everyone’s point.
It still makes no difference in the world to me, but I’d like to see this changed for other people.
People buy character slots from the cash shop.
You know, after thinking about it, I think these things are too hard to get. I’m convinced.
If it is the first time you play it, it is new no matter if it is the same for everybody. It is still my personal story, even though it is the same as everyone elses.
This is my story. Honestly, why implement all the story and then tell people you do not need to see it all, what is your point?
What a waste of time. Let me play all the story once, and if I play an alt, I can choose to do parts of it or not. I had the same choice on the first char, but if the story is not needed as you said, why splitting it up anyway?
Why having the story in the game, if it becomes something obsolete? Why excluding parts of the story from people just for the sake of a “personal story” that is not more or less personal if I have a choice or not.
I have an idea. Let’s have one story for everyone and that’s it. Why have variety at all? And we should have one profession too. Maybe just one skill.
If someone just plays a warrior and nothing else, they’ll miss stuff in most games that other professions get to experience. Anet moved that from being a profession thing (most games have profession specific quests) to a race thing. That’s all. But they improved it.
One of the problems with MMOs IS replayability. Maybe you don’t like alts. That’s fine. But for people who do, maybe they don’t want to do the same thing over and over. In fact, for many people, having something that differentiates you from others of the same race and profession is golden. It’s one of the things I like best about this game.
One of the hardest things about MMOs is differentiating yourself from other people. Everyone has the same stupid gear. The same skins. The same dyes. Sure you can get a look if you work on it, but that’s just a look.
Of course, RPers make their own story but not everyone RPs..yet there are many people who there who don’t RP but still “feel” their character. The personal story makes it just that…personal.
And if you can’t experience all of it, I’m not sure why that’s such a big deal. It’s like any game where there are professions quests you miss out on if you don’t play every profession.
You have more options in doing the quests if they are available. You have no option if they are not available.
Not everyone is willing to play 15 characters just to see all of the story.
You don’t need to see all the story. They didn’t make it so you’d have to. No, it’s much better to have less options to have everyone the same.
I don’t get it at all.
Mesmer…a better speed buff..since I don’t like the focus.
I’m not in agreement with it, because I don’t see it as necessary. It’s not that I can’t understand why you’d want that. I simply have different needs.
You’re not wrong to want that. But I’m not wrong not to, either.
It’s a difference of opinion. I can see why you’d want it. It’s just not important to me.
Actually, in this case you kind of are wrong, and in fact aren’t making sense. You’re contradicting your own opinion.
You don’t view this change being asked for as neccessary. You say you have different needs, and that this change in question isn’t important to you.
But if it’s not important to you, and in fact doesn’t affect you in any way, then you have no reason to go against this change, much less disagree with it.
Don’t get me wrong. It’s fine that you don’t think such a change is necessary.
But you’ve done more than just state that you don’t find it necessary. You’ve tried to actively come up with arguments as to why such a change shouldn’t occur, beyond simply “I don’t find such a change necessary”. I mean, you cited a kittenstorm in the forums for kitten’s sake! You’re actively trying to impede this, rather than simply stating “I don’t find this change necessary”, and then being done with it.
TL;DR: You acting like such a change would affect you but stating that it wouldn’t. As such, I can only come to the conclusion that you were debating/arguing simply for the sake of it.
But it does affect the game. Making everything “easy to get” almost killed the game in the first place. I don’t think people realize that.
Something has to be hard to get, because some people need stuff to work for. The sticking point is there has to be enough cool stuff that’s not hard to work for too.
Well he always has an excuse for bad game design that is for sure.
You got to play five different races to get the story? What is it good for than to have all those differnent personal stories, if it makes no sense to make 3 human characters? And then 3 Sylvari and so on…
Sooo many flaws.
Saying something is a flaw doesn’t make it a flaw. Having less options, to me, is far more flawed than having more options.
Are you telling me other games let you PvP with max level characters right out of the box? Cause I think most of them don’t.
Yes, some people like to craft up to 80, but plenty of people enjoy playing in the world. The open world remains my favorite part of this game. Not dungeons. Not the living story. Not farming.
Just running around the open world.
It’s not for everyone, but that doesn’t make the manifesto any less true for some of us.
What the kitten, he is explaining what the Manifesto means, on what idea it was founded. The ideas on what the whole game was based on. The bloody concept.
But well, nothing is harder to see than the things you don’t want to see…
You seem to be laboring under the assumption that Colin wrote the manifesto or was instrumental in writing it. I’m not sure that’s the case. We don’t really know who wrote the manifesto. We know people spoke it, but not who wrote it.
The language of the manifesto is actually pretty clear. It’s saying “We don’t want people to grind in Guild Wars 2…we want to change the way people view combat.” Not gear. Combat.
I’m pretty sure that taking once sentence out of context, particularly when another actually defines the type of grind they’re talking about, isn’t the best way to interpret a document.
Not sure what “grinding” means in combat.
But if there was ever such a thing as “combat grind” as in a fight being the same every time “I swing a sword, I swung it again”, then GW2 is pretty much the epitome of “combat grind” lol.
I don’t remember being able to afk with auto attack on for a large part of the game in other MMO’s. /shrug
If you read the entire passage, it starts talking about the grind in games to get to the fun stuff. And it most games it’s true. People level first. They want to rush through leveling. They want leveling guides. They want to level as fast as human possible and consider it a chore, because raiding is what they want to get to. Half the problem with this game is that people want to play it like other games.
In this game you don’t level to raid. You don’t do significantly different things after you hit max level. As much as anything else, that’s one of the things this game was sold on, and it pretty much remains true.
When I played Rift, I felt I was being funneled into dungeons and raiding. The open world was a joke and meant nothing. I don’t feel that here.
To me, that’s what Colin was talking about. And it was backed up, as I said, many times after the manifesto was first released, at interviews and panels in conferences.
I wouldn’t call it a step forward if players are excluded from large parts of the story.
As an example, if you don’t play a sylvari character, you will meet Trahearne very late in game. You won’t know him until it is too late (when your personal story becomes his). But all things related to Orr or the undead are part of the Sylvari story line.
So I have choices, but if I make the wrong one, like not playing a Sylvari, I miss out the story itself. How is this good game design and a step forward?
You miss the lore because of the bad design known as personal story.
That’s why you have five character slots. So you can play through every racial story if story is important to you.
And yes, I consider it a step forward. Because really no one has to do everything in a game. It’s good that different people have different histories. It’s more like what the original RPGs were like.
There’s never been enough RPG in MMORPGs.
Now this I can agree with. I think content is coming out too fast…even way too fast.
Definitely way too fast. Definitely in agreement with you there. I obviously can’t say with certainty due to my Magic 8 Ball being fickle at the best of times with its accuracy, but I think player burnout with the Living Story pace is going to be a real problem by this time next year at the very latest.
And while I’m happy we’re in agreement on something, I’m still uncertain as to why you disagree with being able to get everything released in a patch during that patch, at least in the case of holidays, since the subject at hand is Halloween and all.
I’m not in agreement with it, because I don’t see it as necessary. It’s not that I can’t understand why you’d want that. I simply have different needs.
You’re not wrong to want that. But I’m not wrong not to, either. It’s a difference of opinion. I can see why you’d want it. It’s just not important to me.
They split between races depending on where you are in the story line. You get personal quests for the class you play. So a hobbit warden will have different quests than a hobbit burglar. And a elven guardian will have other stories than a human guardian.
Where is your choice in GW2 though, after recruiting the Quaggans or whatever race?
If you are lucky you get two options to do the same instance in different ways.
There are many options in Guild Wars 2…you just seem to be unaware of them. For example, toward the end of the story, the pale tree asks your character your biggest fear and lists three options. Depending on which option you choose, you have several related quests that are different. Choosing a different answer gives you different quests.
So all halfling burglars would have the same exact story but that’s not true of all human warriors. It’s an advancement of the genre.
Everyone always wants to downplay the steps forward made here. But they’re very happy to bring up faults and exaggerate them. Some would call that bias.
You speak as if this is a rule, not the exception. SWToR wasn’t out when this was made. MMOs didn’t have personal stories where that happened. That’s why they mentioned it.
World bosses and dungeons/raids are all that were in most MMOs. The personal story is most certainly different and something they wanted to tout. Why wouldn’t they?
The personal story is just a copy of LotRO’s Book quests and class quests.
But while the book quests in LotRO at least span a wide arc and carry you around the world with story instances in between and many of them, the personal story makes you go to point A, do a quest and than go to a completely other point to do quest B.And after level 40, the only sort of unique thing (personally different stories) dies and you do the same solo instances like everyone else. Trahearne’s personal story so to say.
Do the book quests in Lotro branch? Do different people have different book quests? Because that’s part of the difference.
In most MMOs all human warriors have the same story. Not so in Guild Wars 2…unless I’m mistaken.
Right, but if they bring out stuff this year, and everyone can get it, and then bring out nothing next year but the same stuff, you don’t think there’s been a kittenstorm about rehashed recycled stuff on the forums? Cause I do.
There’s just as much of a kittenstorm going on about the things that they didn’t bring back this year. You may not believe this, but people do actually like rehashed content from time to time. Usually holidays like Halloween and Christmas in mmos are those times where rehashed stuff is accepted because along with the rehash, a couple new things are added each time.
And the players get all the new goodies during that event and then wait for the new goodies in the next one.
You said earlier that it’s unreasonable to expect new content every year, because it can’t be done.
I’ll remind you that Anet made the decision to put out bi-weekly content. They made this decision to pump out endless content at a cheetah’s pace. If they can’t handle the workload, then they need to cut back to a pace they can handle, rather than time gate the holiday prizes.
Because once again, waiting isn’t fun. Especially when it’s waiting a whole year for something that was added a year prior.
As an aside, I feel I have to ask: Is “to avoid a kittenstorm on the forums” really the best you can come up for why we should have to wait to get the rewards that were added in a previous iteration of an event? Because that’s not exactly a compelling reason.
Now this I can agree with. I think content is coming out too fast…even way too fast. It puts pressure on people who either feel they have to do stuff (of course they don’t) or they feel that if they don’t log on this miss stuff (which might cause them not to log in again).
Half the problems with this game is that Anet wants to keep concurrency as high as possible. And as long as that is a goal, we’re going to have things in the game that might not be best long term for the game.
where is this tower ?
In the Mad King’s Realm. Enter one of the doors in Queensdale, Kessex or Gendarran fields, and talk to the charr NPC there. He’ll give you an option to get to the Mad King’s Tower.