Guild Wars 2

It’s not just about technology though. It’s about time/energy/money too. Simply put, this game launched with more quests (dynamic events) than all the quests from all Guild Wars games put together. They came out with Guild Wars Prophecies and it had well under 300 quests. This game has 300 hearts, and 1500 dynamic events. And while Guild Wars 1 had 25 missions, this game has many times that in terms of personal stories that had to be created. Guild Wars 1 has a single starting area. It didn’t have underwater to populate. It didn’t have something like WvW, which is a huge undertaking to work on….hell Guild Wars Prophecies didn’t really even have “dungeons”. Dungeons were basically added in Eye of the North.

So the game takes years and money to develop and every developer, not just Anet, has to pick and choose what it puts time and money into. The auction house and LFG tool really didn’t exist in Guild Wars 1. Guesting didn’t exist. Culling didn’t exist. These are things that all needed work.

The systems that were implemented at launch were the ones they thought they needed for the game..and even then, how many dynamic events were bugged at launch? How many personal stories?

This isn’t about learning or not learning from a previous game, even if the technology can challenge people. This is about how long and hard it is to make a game as large and ambitious as this one. Choices were made not based on learning and not learning. Choices were made based on time and money, just like in any project.

At some point every MMO has to be launched and it will never have enough end game content. It will never have every feature. And games that are coming, will be exactly the same. They’ll either be feature rich and very small, or huge sprawling worlds with nothing in them, or games that are lacking certain things.

Someone said that today’s games all launch with an LFG tool. SWToR didn’t. TSW didn’t. Rift didn’t. And those are the most recent big MMOs. Now, I’m pretty sure that Neverwinter DID launch with an LFG tool. But it didn’t launch with a huge open world.

To say that games today all launch with all the stuff that previous games have, when previous games have had years to implement stuff, is like saying that making a new MMO should take the same time as making an older MMO and adding everything to it. It just takes too long and costs to much for MMOs to do everything prior to launch. You’d either have to be have best funded MMO of all time, or the most understanding investors, or the most patient fans, or all three.

I think it’s easy to miss the one vital point.

The trinity started out a very long time ago, so people have had the time to create stuff with the trinity. And it wasn’t just a handful of devs.

So when the trinity started, encounters were very very simple. Everything was essentially tank and spank. And as the trinity became more entrenched, more and more variety was added.

The trinity has had years to evolve. Literally years. And since everyone was doing it, it evolved faster.

I think it’s premature to expect a non-trinity system to be fully fleshed out in a year or two. So far, this game has given me more enjoyable fights than any trinity game I"ve played. I’ll never miss waiting for a tank or healer, and more importantly, I’ll never have to jump on my healer because my guildies are pestering me to play a character I’d rather not play.

But the trinity goes far beyond limiting players. The trinity also limits developer creativity. It hampers the progress of boss encounters.

It’s like the first games that come out for new consoles aren’t usually as good or polished as the ones that come out later. It takes time to learn to use a new resource. The trinity is one of the major limiting factors in most older MMOs. It should stay there.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

This game had an extremely long development. Yes, improvements to the core game released at launch should be expected, and improvements over time.

That does not excuse the game releasing without basic, fundamental features existing in far older games, including some in GW

Configurable UI. Particle controls. Appearance slots. Functional LFG. Flexible graphical settings. Enhanced guild management tools particularly the over simplified bank. These are basics. The newness of the game only exacerbates the fact that basic things are missing. NO ONE had to invent the concepts.

Companies do not release computers with basic features missing that computers released 8 years ago have, and then excuse it by saying “it’s new” and pointing out that the Commodore 64 didn’t have them at release.

I’m not sure any excuse is required.

MMOs are huge investments in time and money. I can think of NO MMO, not one, that had most basic features at launch. Including one feature meant excluding other features, or it would take ten years to develop each MMO…far too long for the market to support the project without some income.

This particular MMO launched with a huge world…five starting zones, 25 large zones in all, and personal stories (which most MMOs don’t launch with). Have you ever seen an MMO launch with all the basics?

You can either have most features and a tiny world, or a great big world and some features…but I don’t think you can have both.

And I don’t think anyone should be expecting it from any of the upcoming games either….or you’re going to be massively disappointed.

I bought this game with the idea that there wouldn’t be a traditional end game, so I’m not disatisfied with the end game. That is to say, I like having stuff to do without feeling like I have to do it.

Some of that sensation has left me recently. There are too many things that the game seems to urge you to do, and it becomes harder to ignore those things.

But honestly I’d rather have no end game at all. At least not in the sense you’re talking about.

What the OP is asking for is more content, with less grind. What the OP isn’t going to get is enough content to satisify, and less grind. That’s because no matter how much Anet adds to the game, it will never be enough to stop people from basically burning through it and suddenly needing more grind…or people run out of stuff to do.

And you know, there are a lot of people, like me, who don’t need stuff to do. I’m perfectly happy banging around, enjoying the world and making my own stuff to do. The problem is, I seem to be in a minority and Anet can’t make a game just for me and players like me.

So they offer different things to different people.

There will never be enough story for a guy like me. Not ever. Take a single player game like Skyrim or Dragon Age. I might get 50 hours out of a game like that. I might get 100. What I won’t get is thousands of hours, which is what MMOs are expected you to get. I mean the amount of development time and cost is much higher with an MMO than with any single player game, so you have to keep players for longer.

I think Anet thought if they made a good game, they’d keep people playing, just on the basis of it being a good game..and the OP seems to be suggesting if they add more of the stuff he likes, then people will stay.

But I don’t believe the OP in correct in this. I believe the OP might very well stay…and I’d probably stay. And people like us, they’d probably stay.

But I don’t think there’s enough people like us to support continued development. And then there’d be no new DE’s, no new content, no advancement, because at the end of the day, MMOs are expensive to run.

As long as Anet’s focus is in keeping the game running at a sustainable level, compromises will have to be made.

This is a really good post, OP. Do you remember the backlash when Guild Wars 1 introduced heroes with Nightfall. A lot of people hated the very idea…a lot of people loved it. There are still people saying the introduction of heroes ruined Guild Wars 1.

I really do think people forget.

All the complaining that went on each time Anet nerfed a skill. And how many professions and skills had to be buffed because people weren’t using them.

Guild Wars 1 was a great game, but it wasn’t a perfect game. And it had plenty of time to get its legs under it before it became the game it eventually was.

During that time some people left and others jumped on the bandwagon. I think the same thing will happen here.

Necros are in a much better place than they used to be. I have a blast on my necro. Warriors are still OP according to most people. Mesmers do fine in PvP but there are plenty of other viable options now.

The events you’re seeing are part of what’s called the Living World, 2 week updates, each of which comes with its own set of achievements and a meta achievement that you can complete for some sort of reward. Some people like it and some people don’t.

Sometime the Living World leaves things behind (like a new dungeon path or a new dynamic event) but often parts are removed from it.

SlappedYak.7489:

There are some quick fixes (scaling, time limit, loot drops) that could make this fight more accessible, but I believe the major changes (and the hardest to implement) are really needed, not just in this aspect of the game.

The overflow system… “system” being a strong word here >.> what was meant to be an “emergency for beta” is now a staple part of the game in this big meta events. I seriously think that introducing “districts” (gw1 style) where you could CHOOSE and clearly see which overflow/district you were in, make it EASIER to organise attempts, make it easier to do things like guild missions, bounties, champ farming etc etc etc. It would improve so many aspects of the game.

The deepest problem is at the heart of their content plan; push new (generic and boring) content out every 2 weeks…and forget about the old stuff. They dont need to fix teq, they are distracting everyone with backpieces and mini pets… screw the permanent content! They don’t care, they are pushing this crappy living story way too hard. Good ideas but it has become a meta achievement treadmill and it’s SO DULL. The player base has given up on Teq too, I have seen maybe one teq attempt a day? and that is on SFR… I cannot imagine it EVER gets done on smaller servers :/ people have just given up on it, which is a shame, because it really was quite fun when I wasn’t dc-ing and getting booted into a kittenty overflow :PP

What made you think the overflow system was meant to be an emergency measure for beta? I’m really curious. I was always under the impression that it was supposed to solve the problems of queues in other games like Rift and SWToR. I know I’ve spent two hours in one game waiting in a queue to play at all. I was under the impression that overflows were a solution to an existing problem (not to say they don’t create other problems that didn’t exist without them).

I guess the question is what’s worse…missing an event while being in an overflow that can’t do it, or sitting in a queue and not playing at all.

I don’t know OP…I’m 51 and I feel like the game is aimed at me. While some stories are lighter, others aren’t. There is a charr story I thought was quite poignant. There’s plenty of little dark moments as well.

But I think as you get older, you also learn to take some things less seriously. There are things I’d watch and enjoy now that I’d have never watched and enjoyed at your age, even though they might be considered less serious and more silly.

MrRuin.9740:

The only problem with Tequatl is the huge window waiting for it to spawn. Cut that to at least half of what it currently is and it’d be perfect.

Tequatl’s not hard. Map I was on last night did it in 9mins. People just need to learn how and what to do. Main servers could do this no problem (and they did) if people would take the time to learn to do something other than stack at a dragons feet and auto-attack.
This goes for beyond Tequatl though. For example – how many lay dead at Golem, FE, Maw, etc…..scaling the event up and absolutely refuse to waypoint? Is that a problem with the event being too hard or the people being too lazy or stubborn to wp?

This problem is exacerbated every time Anet runs Tequatl as a daily. Some people care about that single achievement point and they don’t care about beating the dragon. So they die, lay there and get their achievement.

In my opinion Tequatl should never be a daily for that reason. It makes it harder for people who actually want to beat the dragon to do so.

cesmode.4257:

Nice post, and while I still have my doubts and concerns over the future/direction of this game, Id like to extend an apology too. I too am extremely critical of Arenanet because they make bold claims which generate hype that is never lived up to…among other reasons.

Either way, apologies for some critical remarks in the past. Even though I am not playing your game currently and I am not sure if or when I will return, I acknowledge that you are doing your best and doing your best in quasi-uncharted waters. I agree with the OP that the collaborative discussions being had are evidence that you are listening and what to build the game together with us, which is great. I just hope that even if you see overwhelming and consistant responses in those threads, that you don’t sweep our concerns under the rug again and go on with your development direction rendering the discussions pointless. I hope they are taking into consideration.

So here it is: Sorry!

Hey Vayne. I still don’t agree with you on…most anything. Despite differences, you are one of the forum posters I love to spar with(metaphorically speaking) the most. <- As close to an apology as you’ll get my friend!

I never expected, nor asked for an apology, so anything even remotely close to one is a bonus. lol

I enjoy our conversations as well.

Simple brilliant. I love this. lmao!

Saulius.8430:

wiazabi.2549:

Still find the most odd contested wp is the guild puzzle ones they are always contested so whats their purpose?

they are uncontested when someone is doing guild mission, and they might be used to come back to the puzzle start

Actually I think they’re contested when a guild is in there doing a mission, so no one can use the waypoint.

The reason I think it’s like this is because it prevents other guilds from easily doubling up when someone is in there, and also because the doors close after you start the puzzle, and if you use the waypoint, you’ll be locked out of it.

So under no circumstance should someone use a waypoint if they die in the puzzle, unless there’s no other option. Normally they’d have to be rezzed in the puzzle by someone already inside to continue.

I also agree on everything except for the gear check thing. I think it would cause unnecessary rifts (no pun intended) in the player base. There’s enough of that going around already.

Dendail.4896:

RyuDragnier.9476:

I think this is why they gave us the Antitoxin Spray as a healing skill, so they can throw torment at us all the time.

Ugh I was so disappointed in this skill… I decided to test it out & the CD is simply too long for what it does. The conditions are reapplied too rapidly. When I was testing it against the new PvE Condition Toxin Spray(?) I was usually left looking at a CD & a condition that was going to kill me since it is immune to every removal in the game except the new heal ability…

I don’t think that it’s supposed to be a solo thing. Because the removal is AOE (and I’m sure it’s tied to the dungeon and events with lots of people) if lots of people remove the condition, a lot of people will be removing conditions from people around them.

If I were going to run solo, I would think this would be not the best healing skill to use. In a group however, it might be very handy.

That’s a great post OP. Wish I’d thought of it.

The Teq encounter has both good and bad in it, but in my opinion more good. The only thing I dislike about it, is that the encounter is completely dependent on how good the guys on the guns are. You have six guys that make or break the fight…and that’s not necessarily good planning in my opinion.

On the other hand, a challenging boss that can’t just be zerged down is exactly what was missing from this game. You may not like the new Tequatl. You may not enjoy that play, but enough people do…and Anet needs to make content for all of us.

dukefx.9730:

Vayne.8563:

dukefx.9730:

Unfortunately Arena.net’s priority =/= the player’s priority. Instead of new skills and traits, new armor sets, craftable precursors, new legendaries they are busy with the Living Story which 80% of the commnity is sick and tired of.

I love how people pull numbers out of their….imagination to try to make a point. You have no clue how many people by percentage are sick of the Living World stuff. It’s probably less than you think is my guess.

By the same token, not everyone is barracking for more skills. Some people certainly are, but many people are not build-a-holics and are happy just to throw stuff together that works Those people aren’t hurting for build options, because they don’t follow any sort of meta.

I’d wager there are far more people who don’t even know a meta exists than there are those who pay attention to it.

Almost my entire guild is tired of it and we are an active PvX guild. All my friends are tired of it. A gazillion people here on the forums are tired of it. All those people who left because of the living story are tired of it. I’ll correct my statement then: make it ~90%! The living story is just a cheap way to satisfy achievement hunters.

Yep 92.4% of all statistics are made up on the spot. You’re statement is no more credible now than when you first made it.

You can preserve the look of a level 80 bow on any other bow using a transmutation crystal.

It would require one crystal to save the skin to a lower level bow.

I’m not sure about question one the way you worded it though.

Mackdose.6504:

Come on guys, it’s not like the 1-79 game is drastically different from the 80 game.

You’re right…it’s not. The difference is only that I don’t really finalize my builds or my final look until I get to 80, so everything before that is different in my head.

mercury ranique.2170:

3: I think that divinity’s reach shouldn’t be changed. They did that with Rata Sum, but I didn’t really liked it, cause it is a different city cause there are jumping elements.If they do something like that, it has to be the same as the real divinity’s reach, but that means making it harder to jump.

Just a brief correction…according to one of the devs (I can’t find the quote due to an inadequate search engine but I’m sure this is true because I was corrected on it), the city in the harpy fractal is not actually Rata Sum.

The reason it looks that way is because Asuran architecture, like many, build on similar designs, but it’s just an Asuran built area from some past time.

If you make Tequatl scale for 20 people, people will start yelling at you for showing up if it scales the encounter to make it harder.

Scaling an event is very difficult but scaling a complex event so it has roughly the same level of difficult is a big, big ask.

And you know, I’d be in favor of it scaling, to be honest. I just don’t think it’s worth the resources for a single meta. It might be different if the work done on scaling an event this complex would carry over to scaling other events but I don’t think that will be the case.

Arimahn.3568:

Vayne.8563:

Arimahn.3568:

Vayne.8563:

The new dungeon…the aetherblade jumping puzzle, Tequatl, moa racing, the karka queen.

Two out of five. Oh well.

Also, just because Zephyr Sanctum or any other part of the LS will (rather: may) return at some later point doesn’t mean people will stick around in the meantime. I’m sure Anet doesn’t want people to come back for only two weeks every now and again.

If those are the only reason you’re playing the game you won’t stick around anyway.

They’re not reasons I play, they’re the reasons to keep playing. The LS is a short cycle as to allow for quick bursts of content every two weeks to keep people interested. Except it doesn’t really work because the story is forgetable and the activities are, as you said yourself, a mixed bag at best. I’m sure there are people who would be delighted to get new minipets or a new shade of teal out of those events, but I doubt this is what people generally want.

I’m not sure this is true. It’s certainly not true for me. How many people feel this way is anyone’s guess.

My main point is most people don’t really think deeply about the games they’re playing. I really believe this. Some of us are theorists and really think about games. Other people seem to be happy just to have something to do…with the living world, it’s in the form of achievements. There’s a list, you check it off, you feel like you’re getting something done. That’s the strategy at least.

Some of the activities are dull, like carving pumpkins, or opening doors. Some are more interesting. But enough fun things are left behind that make the game more interesting and provide more options over all.

Do some people love jumping puzzles. Sure. And the living story left a jumping puzzle behind. Do some people love dungeons. Sure. And the living story brought us a new dungeon path (even if one was removed for it). It’s brought up minigames and returning content like SAB.

As the content adds up (and it does), we have more things to do generally. Sometimes, I just enjoy playing Sanctum Sprint or Southsun Survival. I wouldn’t enjoy playing it every day, but it’s not around every day anyway.

We’re given a variety of things to do…and for most gamers, that’s probably enough.

Buy the precursor, craft the legendary. That’s my opinion.

Astralporing.1957:

Vayne.8563:

It’s a fallacy that you have to join a TTS guild to take down Tequatl. All you need to do is find out when a guild like that is taking down Tequatl and show up. That’s it. That’s all you have to do.

I know because I’ve done it.

If they are doing it in overflow, and my world never has overflows for sparkfly (unless there’s and invasion ongoing ;P), then i can’t just show up. I need someone from that group to ferry me.

Some servers not in the guild do it though. As I said, I joined a guild on Maguuma that wasn’t on an overflow. It does happen. It can be done. And you can guest to do it.

It requires a relatively minimal amount of research if people are interested.

Mungrul.9358:

I can’t check my achievement panel, because as I’ve said many times over, I stopped playing this drek over a month ago now.
And once people start arguing semantics such as you arguing the meaning of the word “story” or eisberg the meaning of the word “by”, you know there’s no point listening to a thing they’re saying. It’s obvious to any sane observer that such people are desperately searching for the tiniest detail that will help justify their position.

The only thing obvious to me is that people are trying to use a word to program a thought that doesn’t exist in the game.

Anet set a schedule to update the game every two weeks. They provide new content every two weeks. And we’re talking about that process. We’re not discussing story literally and anyone who thinks they are obviously isn’t playing the game. They’re thinking in terms.

We’re not talking about a story. That’s not what this is about. This isn’t a matter of semantics. This is a matter of discussing the reality of the game. The reality of the game is that content has been updated. That’s all anyone is saying and anyone distracted by the word story is simply misinformed.

If you want to discuss story, I’ve said before, this is not what we talk about, since Anet has deliberately made this something you can miss story line. They didn’t want people to come back and be totally confused. So it’s not about story and more, has NEVER been about story. Those who think it is aren’t paying attention.

And in post after post, the examples I’ve given have nothing to do with story, so you’re not only not following the game, but you’re not following my post. I’m talking about mini-games, and dungeons and jumping puzzles, which is what I keep referencing.

I’m sure most people realize the Living World updates are just in game activities. As I said earlier, if I want story I read books.

Mungrul.9358:

Vayne, I know you love the game, but I have to take issue with you describing any part of the Living or Personal stories as being “Excellent”.

Gaming narratives aren’t widely known for their excellence, and the ones in GW2 fall way behind the curve as far as I’m concerned, all being incredibly predictable and mostly consisting of comic book style villains that have to be stopped otherwise something bad will happen to THE ENTIRE WORLD.

Compare Guild Wars 2 to say Spec Ops: The Line, The Walking Dead, The Last of Us, the Marathon Trilogy, Grim Fandango, Psychonauts, Deus Ex, etc. and you’ll find even the best examples of story in GW2 will be found wanting.

Guild Wars 2’s writing is tripe when held up against such exemplars.

Don’t get me wrong, their situational detailing and world-building are pretty darned good, but their narrative design is what you’d expect of a high-school student.

The living story isn’t about story. As long as you think that’s what it is, you’re wrong. It was renamed for a reason. It’s now called Living World. If you don’t believe me, look at your achievement panel.

I’m not saying the story is excellent, and I’ve never implied it. I’m saying the Living World stuff (that is the actual things you do, not the story) are a mixed bag. Different people will like different things and some of that can be excellent. Sanctam Sprint is an absolute hoot. I love it. That makes it excellent to me.

It has no story. You’re distracted by the word story. The living story is just what they’re calling 2 week content updates. I’m not talking about story. I’m talking about content.

Arimahn.3568:

Vayne.8563:

The new dungeon…the aetherblade jumping puzzle, Tequatl, moa racing, the karka queen.

Two out of five. Oh well.

Also, just because Zephyr Sanctum or any other part of the LS will (rather: may) return at some later point doesn’t mean people will stick around in the meantime. I’m sure Anet doesn’t want people to come back for only two weeks every now and again.

If those are the only reason you’re playing the game you won’t stick around anyway.

If you go to Disneyworld and all you ride is Space Mountain and do nothing else, you won’t be going to Disneyworld every day. Anet is providing a range of experiences. Not all of them will be for everyone. The trick is to have enough experiences to keep most players happy.

I like the 80 experience as much or more than then 1-79 experience.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

I think you guys are confusing personal preference with bad content.

And you confuse personal preference with good content. That is somehow better ?

I defend content I like. I don’t come to the forums talking about all the great content. I talk do people who claim there’s no meaningful or no good content, because that’s surely a statement of opinion stated as if it’s some kind of fact.

Since I don’t initiate the conversation, I’m quite comfortable with refuting their opinion with mine, while pointing out that it’s just opinion.

People try to use language to make things sound worse than they are. I use language to combat that.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

But what do you miss when you miss that temporary content? Some achievement points and a backpiece? A minipet.

The above seems to be contradicted by the below. You dismiss any concern that one might be missing something by skipping a chapter of living story…

Vayne.8563:

Except that parts of the living story are quite good and some are even brilliant.

…and then claim that one would be potentially missing something very good and even brilliant.

Those two points, both from this very thread, are mutually exclusive. Either one is missing something brilliant by skipping a LS chapter or there is nothing of significance to be missed by skipping a LS chapter.

So far the best stuff from the Living Story isn’t gone forever. For example, a lot of people loved the Zephyr Sanctum and it will return. The two most popular minigames from that are still in the game as part of a rotation. And Anet has said that other things like the Queen’s Pavillion will be making a return too.

And of course, there’s permanent stuff too. The new dungeon…the aetherblade jumping puzzle, Tequatl, moa racing, the karka queen.

It’s not a contradiction at all. The best stuff is mostly still around or coming back.

Mathias.9657:

GW didn’t have server but districts instead. Stop throwing strawman arguments at me lol, getting mad or what?

Mad, at you? Never.

It’s not a strawman argument. You’re a guy who’s constantly comparing Guild Wars 1 to Guild War 2. Guild Wars 2 follows Guild Wars 1 in the non-specialized server strategy. There’s no real reason for it here. It’s not like everyone can’t guest over to TC or Piken Square to RP.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Mojo.7986:

Amazing the difference between content you have years to design and that which you don’t. Things will likely not get better. The LS will continue to be half thought out, poorly implemented, and bug ridden until they realize that making good content takes time they are not giving their development team.

Fair enough comment. People complain, because most of the content they got with the vanilla game was very well designed. Events needed tuning, some stuff was too easy, but overall, the open world was a great experience.

Now we have the Living Story and content updates every two weeks. Unfortunately, those updates feel rushed, and in no way as polished as the content in retail.

I really wish, they would take the time on content, they actually need, and present us a big content patch every 3 monthes and a expansion every year, with the quality level we had, when the game was released.

You guys have the shortest memory of all time.

The game launched with 8 dungeons which most people don’t like. It launched with more buggy dynamic events than you can shake a stick at. It launched with stuff that wasn’t rewarding at all so players stopped doing it. Let’s not glorify the launch of Guild Wars 2…it was a buggy mess. Only now is it the kind of game that you might even get at a game launch. It’s improved immensely.

And a lot of the living story things we’re seeing are good stuff. You may personally not like them, but that doesn’t stop Twilight Assault from being one of the better dungeons in the game. You may not like Tequatl but lots of people do. And many of the mini games, the Zephyr Sanctum, the new jumping puzzle (Not so Secret) they’re all good quality content.

I think you guys are confusing personal preference with bad content. Because a lot of the content is fun to play…for many of us, anyway.

As much as people say I’m a white knight (and accuse of of whiting knighting) immersion is probably where Guild Wars 2 is at its weakest. Stories aren’t deep and I don’t feel a lot for characters, even my own. There’s a long list of games I’ve felt my characters more in, including Guild Wars 1.

I don’t know that there’s any magic solution to solve this problem…it’s not just story. There’s more to it than that.

Making a customizable home instance might help to some degree, or seeing your home instance grow more than just a few gathering nodes. The hall of monuments was a better “home instance” in Guild Wars 1 than our entire home instance is currently.

I’m pretty sure that Anet would ban if you have evidence that you were kicked at the last boss just to let a guildie in. That’s harrassment or at least griefing.

With evidence you should report them to Anet…they should get a ban for doing something like that.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

I don’t know about you, but I found the original Tequatl event to be underwhelming. In fact, I don’t like ANY of the dragon events. and most people ended up doing them for loot..not because they were great events.

Before they were zerged they were fine. Once the rewards were increased they were basically jokes. I don’t know if you think having giant dragons as a joke is good for the game, but I don’t.

The event made a mockery of these supposedly powerful foes. I’m not sure why people think they should be able to walk up to a dragon and beat it to death my stabbing it in the toenails, because I think it’s just silly.

Sigh. People are stabbing it in the foot because the design put the only hit boxes accessible to melee in the feet. Let’s not make immersion critiques unless we’re in fact questioning the game design choices that cause them.

The mechanics of new Teq may be quite a bit better, but the problems have been moved from the encounter mechanic level to the organizational level. It was supposed to be an open world raid style event aimed at a sweet spot of around 80 players. Instead, because of issues on the organizational level, it’s being completed more in dedicated overflows than anywhere else, and by much more than 80 people, according to Ursan.

The very existence of the TTS Alliance is a mark of the apathy with which the majority of the player base has greeted this event. Players who want to do the event are unable to gather the numbers on their own servers. To do so, they join a cross-server alliance. A few large servers do the event, the rest don’t.

Before ANet converts additional meta events that are being utilized on most servers into events that are aimed at one segment of the population and as a consequence will be under-utilized, they should be looking at the lessons learned from the rejection of this one by a large segment of the player population.

I don’t think any event Anet makes will require the same organization as the Tequatl event. People are assuming that will be the case, I’m assuming it won’t.

They have the metrics. They see how many people are doing it/won’t do it.

The bigger problem with the Tequatl fight is how important the turrets are anyway, and that makes the entire encounter won or lost on six guys.

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

I’m not sure why you can’t see the difference.

And I’m not sure why you can’t see the amusing contrast between your comments in the two threads. So let’s just call it even and let it go.

/e bows

One comment is about people trying to do a single specific event that was made to be kittene comment is about getting to easy events that people do regularly with no preparation You can bow all you want,. but you’re simply taking what I said about the Tequatl fight which is a very specific instance, and trying to apply it universally to every meta event in the game.

You’re ARE misrepresenting what I said. You can’t apply an idea to two different situations, unless you’re just trying to troll me of course.

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

If you’re going to misrepresent what I say, you should probably not take it out of context. It makes you look disingenuous.

No, sir. I did not ‘misrepresent’ anything you said, and the context is right there in black and white, albeit spread across two threads, with getting to a dragon event on time being the common element. At least, that was the common element as seen from my side of it. I don’t know what you saw.

All anyone has to do is look. It’s all still there. Unedited. As is often the case, however, you seem to be responding to things that weren’t there and/or weren’t intended. I don’t know what to tell you. Too many conversational irons in the fire, maybe?

Furthermore – and this is not directed at you, Vayne, but to those here who for whatever reason felt the need to lash out at me for comparing and contrasting what you said in one thread (about getting to a dragon event) with what you said in another thread (about getting to a dragon event) – I do not appreciate being told off here on the forums or in game because someone didn’t understand what I posted. If you are confused by something I have said, ask, please, for clarification instead of telling me I am the ‘definition of a hater’ and that you ‘cringe’ at my ‘sheer stupidity’.

/e waves at the person who sent me that lovely in-game email titled “You are an idiot.”

Right, finding out when a group is doing an event, is quite different than a casual refernece to waypoints.

Anyone should be able to see that. One is when a guild is running an event, one when an event comes up naturally in game.

I’m not sure why you can’t see the difference.

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

Do you know why the system you’re talking about wouldn’t work here, OP? Because the games you played didn’t have timed dynamic events. Just imagine trying to get to a dragon event, knowing it would be over by the time you got there.

Moot. There be timers in yonder internet. Anticipation may be making you wait, but there be no excuse for not arriving on time.

Because EVERYONE uses game timers. I don’t. I almost never keep a timer open. But sometimes, someone in guild chat will say, hey, the maw is up in a few seconds. And if I’m free and I want to, I can just port over there.

There are times when I come out of a dungeon and someone says, you still have time to get here and get in on the Shatterer kill…and I do.

That couldn’t happen if I had to run there from an outpost.

Vayne.8563: Anyone who wants to do it, can find out where it’s being done and make it their business to be there.

So there. Disagree with your own self. :-D

You can find out when a GROUP is doing an event, that’s quite different from having people calling out stuff casually in guild chat. One thing is scheduled for a player made event, (which no timer can give you) and one thing is for keeping on checking a timer for OTHER world events. Way to misrepresent what I said.

I said for a complex encounter like Tequatl you have to go the extra yard. But for the other 20 plus world events, having waypoint nearby is useful.

I don’t need to know in advance when the Great Jungle Wurm is up, when the Fire Elemental is up, when the Frozen Maw is up, when the Shatterer is up. I can just jump in and get there fast and get some reward for doing so.

If you’re going to misrepresent what I say, you should probably not take it out of context. It makes you look disingenuous.

It’s a fallacy that you have to join a TTS guild to take down Tequatl. All you need to do is find out when a guild like that is taking down Tequatl and show up. That’s it. That’s all you have to do.

I know because I’ve done it.

a t s e.9614:

Vayne.8563:

I’ve been playing a lot more WvW lately, and I’ve come to the conclusion that DPS needs to be removed completely and replaced with healing.

Then everyone would be on equal footing and no one could complain.

I was reading your recent posts and you seem to defend every negative feedback about the game, which is weird. If you don’t pvp don’t troll the topic. The amount of heals is ridiculous and it should be fixed.

I was making a point. You apparently missed it. I am not trolling. Nor am I the only person in this thread who seems to find your suggestion preposterous.

Other points have been made before. This is a team game and if you’re looking for 1v1 balance it’s not only not going to happen, but it shouldn’t happen. You’re asking devs to change the game because you want the game balanced the way you want. And that’s not going to happen.

Your request is unreasonable not just to me, but to most of the people in this thread. If you can get enough regen, you’re giving up damage along the way somehow to make that happen. That’s the trade off.

rizzo.1079:

Vayne.8563:

Anet put a single hard dynamic event in the game, and everyone screams bloody murder.

No, they took a previously enjoyable event and turned it into a procedural nightmare. It requires no more skill than it did previously, just the addition of 3rd party software and a level of organization that their software is incapable of handling. If they would have put a new event in the game that was a procedural nightmare I wouldn’t care nearly as much because I could safely ignore it, but taking out something fun and making it specifically unfun is amazingly bad design philosophy.

I don’t know about you, but I found the original Tequatl event to be underwhelming. In fact, I don’t like ANY of the dragon events. and most people ended up doing them for loot..not because they were great events.

Before they were zerged they were fine. Once the rewards were increased they were basically jokes. I don’t know if you think having giant dragons as a joke is good for the game, but I don’t.

The event made a mockery of these supposedly powerful foes. I’m not sure why people think they should be able to walk up to a dragon and beat it to death my stabbing it in the toenails, because I think it’s just silly.

Arimahn.3568:

Vayne.8563:

I think you’re simply saying that the content you like is real content and the content others like is somehow less real.

I was largely referring to the story part of the LS. Some of the areas were indeed good but they are gone now, so what did it matter?

Last week we had a block party on my block. It’s gone now. What did it matter? A few months ago, I saw Phantom of the Opera. It’s a good show, but it’s gone now. What did it matter? A new deli opened on main street, and stayed there, while the chicken place next to it went out of business. What did it matter?

What people experiences matter. It really is that simple. Have you ever gone on vacation? At the end, all you have left are photos and souvenirs. That’s it. That’s all you end up with. That’s what Anet gives up. We can take screen shots, we get souvenirs (in the form of minis and back pieces or torches or whatever) and then we move on. And we get achievement points so that keeps ticking over.

There are so many things in this game I’d be happy to never do again. Some paths of Arah come to mind. The new Ghost Eater path comes to mind. The cow event in diessa plateau where you have to dress up like a cow comes to mind. I don’t care if I ever do them again. If they were removed from the game, I couldn’t care less. I’ve done them.

At the end of the day, most people in most games only care about new content. You can deny this if you want, but I don’t think it’s any different from books or movies. Everyone wants to see the new movies, the new TV series, the new books. Older stuff disappears and stops selling pretty fast, for the most part anyway.

The story part of the Living Story was supposed to be innocuous so people didn’t miss it. This is what Anet said. It’s also the reason the Living Story has been renamed the Living World. It’s about the world, not the story. It’s about giving players stuff to do (which at the end of the day is all any MMO is about).

I’ve been playing a lot more WvW lately, and I’ve come to the conclusion that DPS needs to be removed completely and replaced with healing.

Then everyone would be on equal footing and no one could complain.

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

Do you know why the system you’re talking about wouldn’t work here, OP? Because the games you played didn’t have timed dynamic events. Just imagine trying to get to a dragon event, knowing it would be over by the time you got there.

Moot. There be timers in yonder internet. Anticipation may be making you wait, but there be no excuse for not arriving on time.

Because EVERYONE uses game timers. I don’t. I almost never keep a timer open. But sometimes, someone in guild chat will say, hey, the maw is up in a few seconds. And if I’m free and I want to, I can just port over there.

There are times when I come out of a dungeon and someone says, you still have time to get here and get in on the Shatterer kill…and I do.

That couldn’t happen if I had to run there from an outpost.

DocHolliday.5921:

Galen Grey.4709:

DocHolliday.5921:

And yet somehow, GW kept me interested for well over two thousand hours. GW2 bored me to the quitting point well under three hundred. The only reason I didn’t go back to GW1 from GW2 was because my account got hacked years ago and I lost everything.

Different people like different things so far I already spent over 1100 hrs in gw2 and its still keeping me interested. Thats about the same amount of time I played gw1 I think actually.

Good for you. You found your niche. The handful of players like yourself though, clearly aren’t making up for the players they are losing who don’t like GW2. There’s a lot of people saying the same things I am, and many more who aren’t only because they already quit and don’t care at all any more.

Oh yeah, and get back to me once you’ve spent another 1100 hours in GW2. Then we’ll have an actual idea how well it’s holding up for you compared to how well GW1 held up for me.

I’ll get back to you know. I’ve spent over 3000 hours on Guild Wars 2, and I’m still enjoying it. Why is it so hard for people who don’t like something to understand that others do like it?

And where do you get your numbers from? The forums? Good luck with that. Terrible place to find out how many people are enjoying a game. I’m guessing five years from now you’ll still be saying no one plays this game anymore, while I’ll still be enjoying it.

DocHolliday.5921:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Charak.9761:

Yeah but the expansions gave 6 months of content. It’s been a year of GW2, there is no permanent content left to do, with no rewards worth getting.

The LS gives us 1 day of content every 14 days.

Some people in my GW Alliance completed Factions in 6 days, and Eye of the North in 2. The only reason players don’t finish expansions in other games quickly is time-gating, as with limiting raid participation to 1/week.

No they didn’t. Playing through the main story line is not at all the same thing as finishing it. If we use your definition of “finishing it” then someone finished GW2 before it was even released.

Vayne.8563:

Zenyatoo.4059:

Greedy? Christ. Where did this movement of accepting everything a company does come from. I swear it wasnt like this 15 years ago.

You want the truth? Games been out for an entire year. lets compare the god kitten score for a second.

Guild wars:
1 year

Free content:
Sorrows furnace – Entire new rarity of items, large amount of bosses from every profession, bunch of new quests, and one hell of a crazy bossfight (forgeman)

Expansion content:
2 new professions
1 new weapon type
something like 200 new skills, 90 of which were elites
13 new story missions, 5 new other missions (elite/challenge)
3 new types of pvp
2 new faction types (which meant a way for guilds to own towns, also a new thing)
something like 70 new zones filled with completely new monsters we’d never seen before using new skills we’d never seen before
More weapon skins than you could shake a stick at.

guild wars 2
Permanent content:
1 new dungeon path that removed an older path
1 boss has been revamped
new weapon skins that require gems
1 new zone
Fractals
1 new rarity
4 “activities”

Removed content:
a bunch of quest chains
a dungeon (molten factory)
a couple mission type instances

Factions added far more content than we’ve gotten so far, in the same timespan, and it STUCK AROUND. it wasnt removed a month later.

We havent become greedy at all. Our standards are the exact same. It’s Anet itself who has changed the amount of content that they produce.

Yep, let’s compare. The content total of Guild Wars: Prophecies and Factions together, is not as much content as Guild Wars 2 AT LAUNCH.

Maybe you don’t realize it, but I sure do. Prophecies had under 300 quests and 25 missions, a couple of elite areas. It’s lovely they added stuff to that game, because it needed.

People finished Factions in a week. A WEEK!. It only had 13 missions.

Maybe your concept of content is different from mine, but this game has far FAR more content than Guild Wars 1 had even after the release of Nightfall.

And yet somehow, GW kept me interested for well over two thousand hours. GW2 bored me to the quitting point well under three hundred. The only reason I didn’t go back to GW1 from GW2 was because my account got hacked years ago and I lost everything.

Yep. Guild Wars 1 kept YOU busy for X number of hours. What does that mean? It means a guy with your likes and dislikes happens to find more variety in that game than this game and that’s fine. In my opinion you represent a pretty small minority and don’t even realize it.

Guild Wars 1 was never really mainstream. It was almost a cult game. It drew a lot of people in that direction. Again, so?

All this says is that you personally find Guild Wars 1 to be more engaging and entertaining than Guild Wars 2. Well I personally find Guild Wars 2 more engaging and entertaining than Guild Wars 1.

And you know what that means? Nothing at all, because I’m one guy with one opinion. Time will tell which game was more successful or more popular.

Rama.6439:

Vayne.8563:

Anyone who wants to do it, can find out where it’s being done and make it their business to be there.

I’m not sure why people think every single aspect of a game needs to be able to be done by every single player in the game in the first place.

Dude, just cause Teq is in window, does not mean it is being done, I have showed up to numerous Teq events cause he was in window and no one was there, no overflow, just nothing, maybe a dozen people, this has to be planned now and if you don’t get in that planned event you are screwed, and who wants to get an organized group together for a meta event? Anet has just gone and ruined one of the daily meta events, and if they do this to Shatterer and Jormag, they will ruin them also.

No one has time to waste to get 50-80 people together just to take down a dragon for what, 4-8 greens and the daily rare, and a very, very rare chance at something nice, no thanks, this is a total waste of space in game imo. Just like all of Southsun.

Dude…you don’t think I know this? I never implied that Teq is done every minute of every day by anyone. I only implied that people do it, during scheduled times, much like an open world raid.

Today we saw Maguuma attempt it at a certain time. They were in LA getting people to come. They had guys lined up for the turrets. There are large guilds that do it. They do it on TC around server reset time at least a couple of times a week (probably more).

I didn’t say it’s done 24/7 every time the window is up. I don’t think every meta event in the game needs to be done every time the window is up. Do you not see how that trivializes content? How it becomes assembly line farming.

Anet put a single hard dynamic event in the game, and everyone screams bloody murder. There are 1500 events in this game and less than ten of them (probably way less) require your full attention or even half your attention. Most dynamic events are relatively mindless and not very challenging.

People on these forums, some of them, have been asking for challenging content for a long time. Those are the people who organize and do the Karka Queen and Tequatl.

What difference does it make if a single even is only done on certain servers a couple of times a week? Is it interfering with your champion run or something?

jniel.3581:

Great game but seems to be 99% wvw/pvp now. World events are dead with players. Its impossible to get runs in dungeons. Even seasonal events are half stagnant.

If you like pvp/wvw you’ll love the game. If you like a more traditional role of adventuring you will enjoy it for the first 40 or so levels. Possibly more.

Unfortunately like every other game out there while it has its unique aspects its still the cooky cutter MMORPG (as of about the time WOW came out) tailored to the teenage crowd (or adults that stopped maturity at 13ish) whos’ parents money typically pays for and they are all about killing one another. Ok maybe thats going too far. =)

Personally might as well well FPS because while this game is cool and has potential its now about wvw/pvp and standing around in places like Lions Arch showing how “cool you look”.

Its worth the buy though because even if your not out for just wvw/pvp etc then you’ll get dozens of hours of entertainment out of it so its a good deal. Better than most. And anyone from the GW1 days knows anet just tends to do a kitten good job overall. Beautiful scenery, great story lines, jumping puzzle madness if you like it and some definitely unique aspects. You wont be sorry you bought it but depending on your persuasion you might find yourself going “WTF happened to all the fun?”.

Impossible to get runs with dungeons. I get my group filled with the LFG tool, usually in a couple of minutes or less. Today with the daily it was filled in seconds. Maybe you’re playing a different game?