Guild Wars 2

wolfie.7296:

Vayne.8563:

So then the question becomes…how many people would use and benefit from the feature, compared to how many people would be annoyed, or put off by it.

I’m not sure how clear cut that is.

Rp is always a minority. For you to RP in that game, annoyed the huge amount of PvPers. Now here you are taking the same position like those PvPers you had a problem with. “What annoys me if I do not even want to participate, should be denied those who want to do it.” I won’t say how that appears or what that makes you (it’s easily apparent to anyone and it’s not good), except that the PvPers let you do it whereas you want to deny it to duelers.

But I don’t RP and I’m not talking about RPing. I’m talking about immersion, and in my opinion the immersion base is far larger than most people think it is.

From surveys in the past, we know that in most games only a very small percentage of players actually consider themselves raiders or raid with any regularity. In addition, far less than half the player base PvPs or considers themselves PvPers. So what does that 50% of the playerbase do…they’re not raiding and they’re not PvPing. In other words, they eschew the typical end game.

This is where Guild Wars 2 is strong. It doesn’t really have an end game…at least in the traditional sense. I mean you can PvP on day one. There are no raids.

So I’m guessing the people that like this game tend to be people who don’t like other MMOs as much. In other words, non-raiders…particularly on the PvE side. That’s the rest of us. Not RPers, just people who enjoy the open world.

And I strongly suspect most of them are not pro-dueling.

It doesn’t take that long to get the 16 achievements, but yeah, I agree it is annoying.

Erasculio.2914:

Trakarg.2095:

So, I wonder, why did Arenanet implement legendaries in the way they did? They don’t want us to grind, so why make us grind? Why not make legendaries have legendary, lore-rich quests that involve difficult content? Oh, right, because Anet can’t design such things due to laziness, unwillingness, or simply an inability to design meaningful content in a game without the trinity.

Kinda. If you watch the Manifesto, it’s there clear as day – “We don’t want players to grind. No one enjoys it”. The issue is that Legendaries were rushed – a lot of preview articles during Beta had a list of items needed for the Legendaries, and it was significantly less grindy than it is today (the Gift of Fortune did not exist, for example).

There was clearly a moment during the later stages of development when ArenaNet decided to add more grind to the game. The change to Legendaries, turning dyes from account-bound to character-bound, requiring more tokens per armor piece in dungeons… All of those point to a huge philosophy shift from what was stated in the Manifesto, and from what ArenaNet had originally told us what the game would be.

If you watch the entire manifesto instead of focusing on two lines, you’d see the TYPE of grind being referred to, having nothing to do with legendaries. I keep telling you you’re talking the sentence out of context, but you keep doing it.

Repeating a falsehood over and over doesn’t make it a truth.

The first part of the statement is “In most games there’s this annoying grind that you have to get to to get to the fun stuff”

Nothing to do with gear, nothing to do with legendaries….it’s to do with not being able to do big battles until you get to max level in most games. Not only is it clear from the Manifesto, but Anet’s verified it after the fact quite a few times.

Why spread falsehood with the truth is so obvious?

rchu.8945:

kossman.8206:

So tired of reading all the kittening about.. how this sucks.. or I want this… Or do this.. Or do that…. Can’t you people appreciate the fact that your playing the best MMO out there?

I can understand the fact that you want them to excel….

But really?

Can you people say thanks? Is it that flippin hard?

Just Sayin…..

That is all….

lol, best MMO…

Since best is an opinion, yeah…for many of us it’s the best MMO. For me, it’s the only MMO I could stomach for more than three or four months at a clip.

Erasculio.2914:

One more example of how the GW2 design philosophy has changed over time: when the dungeon token system was introduced, ArenaNet told us it meant to avoid the feeling that you could go through a dungeon and get nothing for it, while someone else could do the same dungeon and get the same reward. Here, they said:

ArenaNet

Fun impacts decisions. Every time you finish a dungeon you get tokens you can trade in for reward items that you want, rather than having a small chance of getting it as a drop, because it’s more fun to always get rewarded for finishing with something you want to have!

So they clearly understood how frustrating it is to rely on a RNG reward system that gives “a small chance of getting it as a drop”.

However, that’s exactly what they have been adding to the game. All weapon skins acquired through the RNG boxes summon exactly the feeling of frustration given by having a very small chance of receiving a given drop. In many ways it’s worse than in the raids seen in other MMORPGs, considering how we are meant to pay real money for the RNG here.

Vayne.8563:

I’m an editor by trade. I turn off my agenda when reading something. Most people can’t do this.

I think everyone who has read your posts realizes you have a very strong agenda of trying to make up as many excuses to defend ArenaNet as possible (with the little token criticism here and there to save face). That’s probably why so many ignore the way you try to defend the Manifesto – your arguments are biased due to your own agenda.

Actually even many of my opponents have admitted I’m fair minded for the most part. There are a few who haven’t, but I’ve had quite a few people who used to attack me on the forums who now agree with me more often then they don’t.

You’re stuck in the past because I don’t agree with YOU. It doesn’t change reality one whit.

I have no agenda except maybe to stop hyperbole.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Why must dueling be open world?

Perfectly reasonable question. My answer is from another game where this exact issue came up. A dev asked this question and the response was (paraphrased and compiled from numerous posters):

The opportunity for pick up encounters, meeting new people, making friends, new rivalries, etc inherent in a situation where someone just wandering by sees something interesting going on, stops to watch, and perhaps even decides to join in.

Though the above was the most common response there was also commentary about the option to stage duels in particularly interesting locations in the open world.

So then the question becomes…how many people would use and benefit from the feature, compared to how many people would be annoyed, or put off by it.

I’m not sure how clear cut that is.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Trakarg.2095:

Arenanet doesn’t want us to grind? That’s bullkitten. If they didn’t want us to grind, they wouldn’t have implemented gargantuan, mindless grinds (See legendaries for one example).

In fact, let’s examine legendaries more closely. They aren’t difficult to get. They are just time-consuming due to all the mats you must GRIND out. The only thing that’s legendary about legendaries is the length of the grind required to get them.

So, I wonder, why did Arenanet implement legendaries in the way they did? They don’t want us to grind, so why make us grind? Why not make legendaries have legendary, lore-rich quests that involve difficult content? Oh, right, because Anet can’t design such things due to laziness, unwillingness, or simply an inability to design meaningful content in a game without the trinity.

Anet has said all along, straight from the beginning, that there would be things to grind for in this game. That’s a direct quote.

What there wouldn’t be was required grind, such as in other games.

So saying that they said there would be no grind is indeed bull-kitten.

Good thing he did not say that. You aren’t attempting to strawman him there are you ?

What are you, his defense attorney? He said straight out Anet said they didn’t want people to grind. It’s not at all a strawman argument to point out they also said there would be stuff to grind for.

It’s a matter of whether that grind is required or not. That makes a huge difference. It’s not a strawman argument in any sense of the word.

He never claimed that, “they said there would be no grind.” Which is what you attributed as being bull-kitten. Deriding an argument, that was not made by the opposing side in a debate, is the purest example of strawmanning.

OMFG. First line of his post…

Arenanet doesn’t want us to grind? That’s bullkitten.

At least read the posts you’re defending.

Edit: He’s saying Anet is giving us a grind…but Anet said grinds would be in the game. It’s in no way a strawman to point that out.

For someone who claims to be an editor you might want to practice what you preach about reading what you are commenting on.

His statement: “Arenanet doesn’t want us to grind…”

What you claimed he said: “they said there would be no grind…”

Those two statements are not even close to being the same thing.

He never claimed that they said there would be no grind. He pointed out that they do want us (or at least some of us) to grind. There would be no option to grind in the game if ANet did not want at least some of us to grind. They had/have absolute control over this and chose to not only allow grinding, but to reward it. No big deal. its not mandatory. Doesn’t seriously impact character power level. Doesn’t change the fact that ANet does want people to grind.

I think that it is pretty safe to say that ANet wants people to pursue the rewards that they spent time, effort, and money developing. Some of those rewards are gated behind grinds.

The sentence can be read two says. It can be read as saying Anet doesn’t want us to grind (trying to disprove this) or it could be referring to the many quotes on these forums where Anet says we don’t want people to grind.

Now this is where context comes into play. I don’t believe for a second that the poster hasn’t read those threads or comments. Therefore, I take it to mean the second way the sentence can be intepreted, which is the implication that Anet has said it.

This isn’t in any way unreasonable. Context is everything. No post on a forum stands on it’s own.

Your context is irrelevant here because either contextual version is still different than what you claimed he said. You claimed he said that ANet claimed that there would be no grind. He did not. He made a comment about what was desired, not what existed. There is a huge difference (and not just in terms of GW2) between that which is desired and that which is reality.

I took it to mean what I said it means and STILL believe it means that. You’re telling me I’m intepreting it wrong…and you could be right. But I don’t believe you are.

I’m not a literalist.

Chuo.4238:

Vayne.8563:

Chuo.4238:

I’m sure they’ll get 1 million likes in time. Although I do hope they got a bit of a wakeup call, because I’d imagine they expected to get there a lot faster.

snip

I still kind of think that there are a few people who really do like the game, but not as many as might have been had some decisions been different. Aside from a small number of posters here, I don’t actually know anyone who thinks GW2 is all that great (and this includes gaming friends I’ve known for many years – my entire GW guild bought the game, but maybe one or two still log on with any regularity).

Which is odd, when I think about it, because in every other MMO I’ve played I know people who think that particular game is fantastic. Except this one. Hmmm. Maybe it’s just because my circle of friends are pretty “meh” about it, and that’s all I see…but still..you’d think somebody would have loved the game.

So I get the impression that a lot of people are playing now mainly because there isn’t much else going on in the MMO world at the moment. I guess we’ll find out when the next big one releases. If this game is so great, it should weather that fine. If not…well, as I say, we’ll see.

I suppose as long as some small percentage is consistently buying gems, that’s all ArenaNet and NCSoft really care about – and that’s what they’re developing towards. Businesses should make profits, but I think in the process this particular business has set aside what made it special in the past.

Which, for now, means it’s not the game for me. I just can’t get into it, and I’m tired of being more annoyed after a gaming session than before. That needs to be the other way around, or something is wrong.

I’d say there are a good 30 people in my guild who love the game. Of them I’m the only one to post on the forums.

There may be more, but I don’t talk to each and every person on a regular basis.

I’ve no doubt that there are people who love the game, and that naturally they’d eventually gravitate together into guild or other associations. This easily explains why you see people who love it, and I do not. But I’m just sharing some thoughts here – no need to feel the need for a big rebuttal or anything. I’m not trying to convince anyone of anything. Although I really do wonder about your enthusiasm, let’s call it, in defending GW2 and ArenaNet so vociferously. But I’ll leave that right there.

The point I guess I was trying to make is that out of my entire Guild Wars guild, and a sizable group of long time gaming friends besides, nobody really puts GW2 into the “amazing” category. Most don’t like it or are “meh”, a few think it’s basically a good game, but nobody really is super-impressed by it. We all started off in a big bang of excitement, but over time it’s really lost it’s shiny luster. Many quit playing back in November, or soon after. And considering that we all played GW regularly from the early days up until GW2 launched, and some other games for multiple years, this one has lost that luster very, very quickly.

But as I said – no doubt there are people who love the game tremendously, and it makes sense that they’d all wind up in groups together…and that’s what they’d see when they play: people who love the game. I have no idea of numbers or percentages or any other thing, except within my own gaming clan.

You see people who love it. I just happen to not see anyone who loves it. We’re all playing other things now, although we do pop back in from time to time to see if “it’s ready”. So that’s my experience, and what I think about it.

I don’t put Guild Wars 2 into the amazing category either. It’s simply the best MMO out there for my play style at this time. Which makes it good, with the potential to become great. I’ve said this a whole lot of times on this forum.

You have to remember, other MMOs that are "great’ to people, are MMOs that have copied previous MMOs, pretty much lock stock and barrel. The formula was already worked out and those who like that formula aren’t really seeing new games…they’re seeing old games with new skins.

Anet is still finding their way here. This game doesn’t have the stickiness that other games have. It doesn’t have the full on gear grind of games like WoW, or the awesome stories and voice acting of a Bioware game. This really is something quite different and it’s yet to find its niche. Anyone can see that.

There is no point in time anyone can find that I’ve said this game was amazing. I simply say there’s nothing else out there even close to playable for me…so this game is best for me. It’s by no means free from problems.

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

I don’t know how anyone in their right mind can think he’s talking about gear.

I’m an editor by trade. I turn off my agenda when reading something. Most people can’t do this.

Vayne.8563:

I keep the language neutral. It doesn’t detract from my points.

…no one says you have to word things in the most offensive or obnoxious way possible. But many people doesn’t seem to realize this.

If I may offer a little constructive criticism, the phrase ‘practice what you preach’ comes to mind (and often) when I read your posts.

Also, it should be ‘many people *don’t* seem to realize this’. Editor, edit thyself.

I don’t proof read or edit posts. I make too many of them. Any writer will tell you that editing is a painstaking process. It’s not worth editing forum posts. I type them and send them. Sometimes there will be errors. Shrugs.

As for practice what I preach, maybe you haven’t been around for the months of abuse I’ve suffered at hands of other forum members. I was more reasonable at the beginning. I’m less reasonable now…as anyone would be.

I don’t practice what I preach, I respond to different people based on my history with that person, not your expectation of me.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Trakarg.2095:

Arenanet doesn’t want us to grind? That’s bullkitten. If they didn’t want us to grind, they wouldn’t have implemented gargantuan, mindless grinds (See legendaries for one example).

In fact, let’s examine legendaries more closely. They aren’t difficult to get. They are just time-consuming due to all the mats you must GRIND out. The only thing that’s legendary about legendaries is the length of the grind required to get them.

So, I wonder, why did Arenanet implement legendaries in the way they did? They don’t want us to grind, so why make us grind? Why not make legendaries have legendary, lore-rich quests that involve difficult content? Oh, right, because Anet can’t design such things due to laziness, unwillingness, or simply an inability to design meaningful content in a game without the trinity.

Anet has said all along, straight from the beginning, that there would be things to grind for in this game. That’s a direct quote.

What there wouldn’t be was required grind, such as in other games.

So saying that they said there would be no grind is indeed bull-kitten.

Good thing he did not say that. You aren’t attempting to strawman him there are you ?

What are you, his defense attorney? He said straight out Anet said they didn’t want people to grind. It’s not at all a strawman argument to point out they also said there would be stuff to grind for.

It’s a matter of whether that grind is required or not. That makes a huge difference. It’s not a strawman argument in any sense of the word.

He never claimed that, “they said there would be no grind.” Which is what you attributed as being bull-kitten. Deriding an argument, that was not made by the opposing side in a debate, is the purest example of strawmanning.

OMFG. First line of his post…

Arenanet doesn’t want us to grind? That’s bullkitten.

At least read the posts you’re defending.

Edit: He’s saying Anet is giving us a grind…but Anet said grinds would be in the game. It’s in no way a strawman to point that out.

For someone who claims to be an editor you might want to practice what you preach about reading what you are commenting on.

His statement: “Arenanet doesn’t want us to grind…”

What you claimed he said: “they said there would be no grind…”

Those two statements are not even close to being the same thing.

He never claimed that they said there would be no grind. He pointed out that they do want us (or at least some of us) to grind. There would be no option to grind in the game if ANet did not want at least some of us to grind. They had/have absolute control over this and chose to not only allow grinding, but to reward it. No big deal. its not mandatory. Doesn’t seriously impact character power level. Doesn’t change the fact that ANet does want people to grind.

I think that it is pretty safe to say that ANet wants people to pursue the rewards that they spent time, effort, and money developing. Some of those rewards are gated behind grinds.

The sentence can be read two says. It can be read as saying Anet doesn’t want us to grind (trying to disprove this) or it could be referring to the many quotes on these forums where Anet says we don’t want people to grind.

Now this is where context comes into play. I don’t believe for a second that the poster hasn’t read those threads or comments. Therefore, I take it to mean the second way the sentence can be intepreted, which is the implication that Anet has said it.

This isn’t in any way unreasonable. Context is everything. No post on a forum stands on it’s own.

Chuo.4238:

I’m sure they’ll get 1 million likes in time. Although I do hope they got a bit of a wakeup call, because I’d imagine they expected to get there a lot faster.

I actually used to have GW2 liked, but removed my like some time back and stopped playing for several months. In early July I started to try the game out again, and I was about to like it again on FB until they stepped in the Ascended dogpile again. So I’m waiting to see if they clean it up properly. At the moment, I’m not going to recommend the game to anyone as I would have back in September/October.

I still kind of think that there are a few people who really do like the game, but not as many as might have been had some decisions been different. Aside from a small number of posters here, I don’t actually know anyone who thinks GW2 is all that great (and this includes gaming friends I’ve known for many years – my entire GW guild bought the game, but maybe one or two still log on with any regularity).

Which is odd, when I think about it, because in every other MMO I’ve played I know people who think that particular game is fantastic. Except this one. Hmmm. Maybe it’s just because my circle of friends are pretty “meh” about it, and that’s all I see…but still..you’d think somebody would have loved the game.

So I get the impression that a lot of people are playing now mainly because there isn’t much else going on in the MMO world at the moment. I guess we’ll find out when the next big one releases. If this game is so great, it should weather that fine. If not…well, as I say, we’ll see.

I suppose as long as some small percentage is consistently buying gems, that’s all ArenaNet and NCSoft really care about – and that’s what they’re developing towards. Businesses should make profits, but I think in the process this particular business has set aside what made it special in the past.

Which, for now, means it’s not the game for me. I just can’t get into it, and I’m tired of being more annoyed after a gaming session than before. That needs to be the other way around, or something is wrong.

I’d say there are a good 30 people in my guild who love the game. Of them I’m the only one to post on the forums.

There may be more, but I don’t talk to each and every person on a regular basis.

SandruDaniel.4386:

Deamhan.9538:

SandruDaniel.4386:

So there are 4 days left until 1 August and GW2 didn’t get the 1 mil liked they wanted on facebook.

Meanwhile ESO

https://www.facebook.com/ElderScrollsOnline?ref=stream&hc_location=stream

Reached theirs quite some time ago and they are not even open beta. Lol.

Plus Dragon Age Inquisition has over 1 mil votes and Is going to be released only in the fall of 2014 !!!! that tells which are the real deal. Another game that has over 1 mil votes is GTA 5, and is only going to be released in September….yeah the name says it all but still very impressive,people didn’t even get the game and cant wait it so bad. Still Dragon Age Inquisition is the most impressive in votes, until release will get 2 mil likes for sure. GW2 has almoust a year from release and still didn’t get a mil. That is a fail pretty much. That’s why I kept saying that it needs an expansion and fast. Because huge and I mean huge games are coming. And GW2 will be forgotten very fast. The gaming industry changes very fast and Anet still doesn’t know that or cant adapt to it, they just bring temporary mini games and stories…Please learn to adapt Anet to the changes that occur. Catch the other games from behind or gw2 will be placed on the last place soon. Very soon.

Both available on console, and so not so easy to compare. Try comparing a computer game that doesn’t come from an advertising powerhouse like Blizzard or EA. There are very very few games that have 1 million likes.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Trakarg.2095:

Arenanet doesn’t want us to grind? That’s bullkitten. If they didn’t want us to grind, they wouldn’t have implemented gargantuan, mindless grinds (See legendaries for one example).

In fact, let’s examine legendaries more closely. They aren’t difficult to get. They are just time-consuming due to all the mats you must GRIND out. The only thing that’s legendary about legendaries is the length of the grind required to get them.

So, I wonder, why did Arenanet implement legendaries in the way they did? They don’t want us to grind, so why make us grind? Why not make legendaries have legendary, lore-rich quests that involve difficult content? Oh, right, because Anet can’t design such things due to laziness, unwillingness, or simply an inability to design meaningful content in a game without the trinity.

Anet has said all along, straight from the beginning, that there would be things to grind for in this game. That’s a direct quote.

What there wouldn’t be was required grind, such as in other games.

So saying that they said there would be no grind is indeed bull-kitten.

Good thing he did not say that. You aren’t attempting to strawman him there are you ?

What are you, his defense attorney? He said straight out Anet said they didn’t want people to grind. It’s not at all a strawman argument to point out they also said there would be stuff to grind for.

It’s a matter of whether that grind is required or not. That makes a huge difference. It’s not a strawman argument in any sense of the word.

He never claimed that, “they said there would be no grind.” Which is what you attributed as being bull-kitten. Deriding an argument, that was not made by the opposing side in a debate, is the purest example of strawmanning.

OMFG. First line of his post…

Arenanet doesn’t want us to grind? That’s bullkitten.

At least read the posts you’re defending.

Edit: He’s saying Anet is giving us a grind…but Anet said grinds would be in the game. It’s in no way a strawman to point that out.

Leo Paul.1659:

I honestly don’t believe that introducing a dueling system will suddenly create this community that is as juvenile as some people would like to claim. If anything, it’s a just baseless paranoia. I don’t even imagine a lot of people dueling everywhere or anywhere either that it will be bothersome, given how vast the gw2 maps tend to be and how densely populated they are with hostiles. Dungeons are instanced too, so it won’t be a problem there. So where do you guys worry these people would suddenly pop up, annoying the hell out of you? Sure, starter areas might get people who would like to flex their muscles over newbies, but really, how many would those kind of people be? I mostly think they will be in cities, some safe area that is highly populated so unless you enjoy hanging around in LA doing nothing, you are not bound to encounter a lot of them. That said, I agree that it would probably be smarter to just have a designated arena (1 for each major city themed accordingly) for dueling and such, that will allow us to use PVE stuff, like food buffs and even perhaps items like fire elemental powders and the like.

In areas like LA where there are a lot of people, do you really have to read everything everyone is talking about in map chat?

Nope, I don’t have to read everything everyone is saying in map chat, but often there are actual conversations in map chat, at least on my server. It would be a lot harder to hold those with the spam of a duel running through it.

Which is why I think it should be in designated areas. Particularly if not enough of the population by percentage is interested. Why should those few people be able to disrupt entire conversations for no real reason?

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Trakarg.2095:

Arenanet doesn’t want us to grind? That’s bullkitten. If they didn’t want us to grind, they wouldn’t have implemented gargantuan, mindless grinds (See legendaries for one example).

In fact, let’s examine legendaries more closely. They aren’t difficult to get. They are just time-consuming due to all the mats you must GRIND out. The only thing that’s legendary about legendaries is the length of the grind required to get them.

So, I wonder, why did Arenanet implement legendaries in the way they did? They don’t want us to grind, so why make us grind? Why not make legendaries have legendary, lore-rich quests that involve difficult content? Oh, right, because Anet can’t design such things due to laziness, unwillingness, or simply an inability to design meaningful content in a game without the trinity.

Anet has said all along, straight from the beginning, that there would be things to grind for in this game. That’s a direct quote.

What there wouldn’t be was required grind, such as in other games.

So saying that they said there would be no grind is indeed bull-kitten.

Good thing he did not say that. You aren’t attempting to strawman him there are you ?

What are you, his defense attorney? He said straight out Anet said they didn’t want people to grind. It’s not at all a strawman argument to point out they also said there would be stuff to grind for.

It’s a matter of whether that grind is required or not. That makes a huge difference. It’s not a strawman argument in any sense of the word.

Doing the Living Story achievements will give you a boatload of achievement points. That doesn’t hurt. Miss a few living stories, and it’ll take you longer to get your achievement points up.

Ashen.2907:

Dikeido.8436:

As far as what I know Anet had never promise to make another GW1 just with new shinny graphics. So I don’t understand the point of the so call old player crying that GW2 is not GW1 with new shinny graphics.

ANet did state that they intended for GW2 to be another GW1, with the expectation of new graphics and an open world. I’m not saying that people should have taken that statement at face value, but it was made.

What made Guild Wars 1 different from other games of the time was that Anet innovated. What makes Guild Wars 2 different from other MMOs is that Anet innovated. In this, Guild Wars 2 is the true spiritual successor of Guild Wars 1.

It’s a bit hypocritical, in my opinion, to say I love the company that made Guild Wars 1 because it was so different, and then expect them not to go on and innovate some more.

People liked Guild Wars 1 because it was different from everything else out there. And those same people don’t like Guild Wars 2 because it’s not more like Guild Wars 1.

Meglobob.8620:

Loads of people are playing the game because my server Seafarers Rest(EU) is teeming with players…

But my friends list, 90% of them have not logged in for months and months…ie give the game up, so I find it hard to believe gw2 retains 83% of its players…

I would say 500,000+ players out of the 3m who bought the game still continue to play…

Okay let’s say that 500,000 of the orginal 3 million are here. But we also don’t know how much above 3 million we are. There could easily be another 500,000 sales in the last six months, who wouldn’t have left over ascended gear (because it was already in the game) and who are getting new content.

It’s entirely possible that the original group of people who came to the game were disenfranchised and later players are coming to the game not because of what they thought it would be, but because of what it is.

It’s entirely likely that there were more people who started out who flew threw all the content than people starting out a couple of months ago.

Because most of us who run dungeons for the fun of it, are doing it with friends and guildies, rather than random strangers. And we have a great time.

gennyt.3428:

Vayne.8563:

gennyt.3428:

I don’t even understand the point of this thread. Anet isn’t doing anyone any favors, they’re operating a business. The lack of a subscription isn’t out of the kindness of their hearts, they “continue to do what they do” because it makes them money so cut the kitten already. The happy people are playing the game, what did you really expect to find on these forums? To put it bluntly, you’re whining about people whining.

You’re confusing people with a company. A company isn’t a sentient being….but people are. People work kitten content, and many of them are artists. I’ve written and sold things before. Just because I’ve sold something, does that mean I have no feelings about it? Does that mean that I don’t hurt if I get a negative review?

It’s easy to see a company as an inanimate object, but people who makes games like Guild Wars 2, they’re coders and artists and writers. Many of them put their heart and soul into creating the game we play.

Anet is in business to make money, but the company is comprised of hard-working individuals, some of whom we know for a fact go above and beyond the call of duty (such as Kristen Perry redesigning the Sylvari on her own time).

Nice little condescending story, complete with assumptions about me having little to no clue about being creative and putting one’s work out there for the world to judge. Negative feedback is just something you have to suck up and deal with (but I digress because this is about Anet as a unit and not their employees personal feelings and emotions).

People who paid for the game, invested time and probably even more money via the gem shop voice their gripes when they feel Anet has kittened up and so what? They can, and quite frankly I think they should(some probably don’t express it nicely) And as I said, the happy people are playing the game and spending money and getting their friends and family to play, that is their thanks. Once again, what did the OP expect to find here?

Of course you deal with constructive criticism. It doesn’t mean you can’t say thank you to someone who produces something you enjoy. These things are NOT mutually exclusive.

You may call it condescending, but even when I review books I never say…this book bites. I keep the criticism constructive. I keep the language neutral. It doesn’t detract from my points.

No one says you HAVE TO say thank you, but there’s certainly nothing wrong with it. And when you do criticize, no one says you have to word things in the most offensive or obnoxious way possible. But many people doesn’t seem to realize this.

Trakarg.2095:

Arenanet doesn’t want us to grind? That’s bullkitten. If they didn’t want us to grind, they wouldn’t have implemented gargantuan, mindless grinds (See legendaries for one example).

In fact, let’s examine legendaries more closely. They aren’t difficult to get. They are just time-consuming due to all the mats you must GRIND out. The only thing that’s legendary about legendaries is the length of the grind required to get them.

So, I wonder, why did Arenanet implement legendaries in the way they did? They don’t want us to grind, so why make us grind? Why not make legendaries have legendary, lore-rich quests that involve difficult content? Oh, right, because Anet can’t design such things due to laziness, unwillingness, or simply an inability to design meaningful content in a game without the trinity.

Anet has said all along, straight from the beginning, that there would be things to grind for in this game. That’s a direct quote.

What there wouldn’t be was required grind, such as in other games.

So saying that they said there would be no grind is indeed bull-kitten.

Banono.4597:

Vayne.8563:

My experiences with dueling come first and foremost from WoW. Reference Gold Shire. There were idiots there that just stood there and challenged people to duel. They also filled up map chat with all sorts of juvenille nonsense, worse the other nonsense in let’s say Guild Wars 1 which didn’t have dueling.

The constant in chat bragging, harranging and in general just childishness really turned me off…and I turned off map chat. I don’t really want to have to turn off map chat or block 20 people a day.

And yes, I know there are PvP RPers, but they’re by and large the smallest percentage of the PvP base.

If that is all you have experienced then I now see why you feel that way, but let me assure you. WoW’s community is much worse than any other MMOs I have played.

If I were to judge groups of players by what I saw in WoW (Especially in lowbie zones like Goldshire) RP would be something I wouldn’t touch with a ten foot pole due to the public ERP and trolls (I am an avid RPer in every other MMO I’ve played.), I wouldn’t do dungeons because I would think it would be just be a group of kids saying “GOGOGO! Pull or I’ll pull!” and “OMG fail tank /quit” and Barrens chat needs no explaining.

There will be kittenheads in map chat. There already is.

Denying something alot of people want because a few people might be jerks to me is not a good reason. If some people want to smack talk to the point of harassment report them and know you just ruined his day worse than he could ever do your’s.

In other words don’t punish the innocent because some people might be stupid.

I’m not saying don’t have dueling. I’m saying don’t have it in the open world.

What would be so bad about having a dueling arena people could go to, the way that all mini-games are separated out. They don’t play keg brawl on the streets of Hoelbrak.

There’s a difference between saying I don’t want dueling in the game and I don’t want to deal with the fall out of dueling publicly. I’m perfectly willing to compromise.

Why must dueling be open world?

gennyt.3428:

I don’t even understand the point of this thread. Anet isn’t doing anyone any favors, they’re operating a business. The lack of a subscription isn’t out of the kindness of their hearts, they “continue to do what they do” because it makes them money so cut the kitten already. The happy people are playing the game, what did you really expect to find on these forums? To put it bluntly, you’re whining about people whining.

You’re confusing people with a company. A company isn’t a sentient being….but people are. People work kitten content, and many of them are artists. I’ve written and sold things before. Just because I’ve sold something, does that mean I have no feelings about it? Does that mean that I don’t hurt if I get a negative review?

It’s easy to see a company as an inanimate object, but people who makes games like Guild Wars 2, they’re coders and artists and writers. Many of them put their heart and soul into creating the game we play.

Anet is in business to make money, but the company is comprised of hard-working individuals, some of whom we know for a fact go above and beyond the call of duty (such as Kristen Perry redesigning the Sylvari on her own time).

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Vayne.8563:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Vayne Quote for the day.

" The only thing really up for discussion here is the standards of school education in different countries"

Nice new tangent Vayne, if someone does not share your interpretation, they must be poorly educated.

You are so entertaining. :P

There is one possible way, and ONLY one way to intepret something that defines itself. In other words, Colin in his statement defined it. You’re not arguing with me, you’re arguing with the definition Colin give in the piece itself. This is basic English. Period. End of story. You can take the second mention of grind out of context, but it’s actually 100% clear and backed up by stuff that was said after the manifesto was released

They’re talking about what you have in most other games, this annoying grind to get to the fun stuff.

I don’t know how anyone in their right mind can think he’s talking about gear. Particularly when the last line of the paragraph states “we want to change the way people view combat”.

What Colin is talking about (and what he talked about after confirming it) is the leveling up you have to do in other games, to get to the fun stuff. He says this directly in the manifesto.

Everyone has agendas. Everyone wants to take the one line out of the piece and try to define the word grind differently and true, that word CAN be defined differently…unless it’s defined in the document itself.

I’m an editor by trade. I turn off my agenda when reading something. Most people can’t do this.

Actually, Vayne, I was talking about your tendency, that anyone can see in your post history, of adding an un-needed “zinger” or parting shot to almost every post discussing the two games. Usually an offhand or oblique reference to education, intelligence, or some other disparaging comment or reference.

They never help your point, your message could be made without them, and they only ramp up the aggro, so to speak. Just like the last sentence above, implying you have an ability that whoever you responded to does not. What did that add?

You say you are an editor.. so, you are aware of it, I assume, and so I wonder even more, why do it?

Its like two hypothetical statement from an IT guy to a comp user.

1. You can’t just turn the power off. You have to shutdown Windows.
or
2. You can’t just turn the power off. You have to shutdown Windows. Any 6th grader would know this.

Which statement ramps up aggro, insults, and degrades the advice by doing so? Second statement, true or not, is insulting and adds personal issues to an otherwise straightforward communication.

So, which is it. Are you ignoring “editing” your own posts.. or are you a very masterful troll?

I haven’t decided yet.

In a vacuum you’d be right…but this is not a vacuum. I’ve pointed out this information countless times and people simply say I’m wrong. It’s obvious I’m not. I doubled checked with other editors even, in case I was.

At that point, there’s esculation. You look at my posts and ignore the attacks on my posts. Sorry to say, but that’s just biased.

And no, most of my posts don’t end that one, only a few, and usually only in response to people who are arguing something that has no basis at all…such as the intrepretion of the words in the manifesto. There really is only one way to intepret it. It’s backed up by other things that came after…but of course, I’ve said all this before.

Repeating it every time someone brings it up would bring out the bear in anyone.

Gasoline.2570:

They probably quit the game. I hope to see the day vayne is alone with the other 10 fanboys in lions arch doing belchers bluff and saying its the greatest thing ever.

Laugh all you want. My guild numbers are up. Not a huge guild but I’m happy with our 115 members….and yes, quite a few of us are very active.

I love people who think they don’t like a game so the game isn’t doing well. Two, three years from now, you’ll still be singing the same song.

And it won’t have any more truth to it then.

Lenaro.5924:

Vayne.8563:

Ah, you misunderstand. This has nothing to do with only adding things to the game I like. This has to do with not adding something to the game that encourages a specific community to join.

It’s like not having open world PvP…the same sorts of “smack-talking” non-carebears if you will populate the world.

At presence there’s more or less a divide between PvE and PvP. This is Anet’s signature. It existed in Guild Wars 1 and exists here. PvP is that way. PvE is this way. Anet has always kept the PvPers in their own area.

People are asking Anet to change how they do business because they think they know better. Well as a long time “care-bear” I can tell you seriously that you don’t. People like me and people like you don’t mix. We just don’t Put us together and you ask for problems.

We had an RPG guild and the guild leader opened it to PvPers. Pretty soon even mention of the word RP was enough to get you bullied. It was a bad move. I told the guild leader when he did it it was a bad move. The guilds split and everyone is happy.

I don’t care what they add to the game. I care if they change the existing game in a way that will make it worse for those playing any area of the game.

In this case, inviting those who like that to be with those of us who don’t is simply asking for trouble.

And if you don’t think the smack-talking, annoying constant chatter about pwning this guy won’t infiltrate chat…you’d probably be wrong.

I respect your opinions and experience, but I can tell you that mine differ slightly.

I love PvP and I love RP. And before you think I’m some mythical rare breed, there are actually quite a few of us. I’ve led a number of guilds over the years that reflect this play-style. The current group of folks I play with are all from a series of guilds across a variety of games in which the focus was RP-PvP.

As a result of running these guilds I’ve had countless interactions with other players who focus on RP/PvP. In both communities there were certainly always those intolerant of the others, and there’s never a lack of jokes tossed out about other communities, but as a whole they’re quite able to play with one another and enjoy the game together. Most people who don’t RP will always have the “Oh…really?” reaction when it’s first mentioned, but usually people get over it quickly enough if you’re an average enough person.

I think the hardcore PvP community has just gotten a bad reputation for some reason when none really exists. There are certainly bad apples in it, but they exist everywhere.

Smack talking would almost certainly happen, it’s inevitable, but it’s inevitable that in any area of the game people are kittens to others. I’ve seen quite a lot of discussions in the game that I would call worse than smack talking, always hilarious when people blatantly call someone a moron or worse because their gear/understanding of the game isn’t quite up to par. Or the Grammar kittens, always hilarious. Or the people who insult others for genuine complaints.

(PROTIP: Don’t ever call into question the potential that GW2 is anything less than perfect while in-game, you’ll be beaten to death in chat with sticks. Maybe something more painful if availible.)

Some people insist on feeling superior, dueling being added will only change what people brag about, not that they’re bragging.

I do want to ask you directly though, could you please elaborate on what it is that you feel dueling would change that would directly lessen the quality of the game for other players. I really haven’t been able to come up with anything personally and most responses I’ve seen are much less thought out, so I would genuinely appreciate a thoughtful and detailed response.

My experiences with dueling come first and foremost from WoW. Reference Gold Shire. There were idiots there that just stood there and challenged people to duel. They also filled up map chat with all sorts of juvenille nonsense, worse the other nonsense in let’s say Guild Wars 1 which didn’t have dueling.

The constant in chat bragging, harranging and in general just childishness really turned me off…and I turned off map chat. I don’t really want to have to turn off map chat or block 20 people a day.

And yes, I know there are PvP RPers, but they’re by and large the smallest percentage of the PvP base.

Deamhan.9538:

SandruDaniel.4386:

So there are 4 days left until 1 August and GW2 didn’t get the 1 mil liked they wanted on facebook.

Meanwhile ESO

https://www.facebook.com/ElderScrollsOnline?ref=stream&hc_location=stream

Reached theirs quite some time ago and they are not even open beta. Lol.

Well sure, they’re a major brand compared to Anet. How long has Bethesda been making games? How much money do they have to advertise? How many games do they have?

This proves what I’m saying about advertising (and it doesn’t hurt at all that their games are available for consoles and computers).

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Vayne Quote for the day.

" The only thing really up for discussion here is the standards of school education in different countries"

Nice new tangent Vayne, if someone does not share your interpretation, they must be poorly educated.

You are so entertaining. :P

There is one possible way, and ONLY one way to intepret something that defines itself. In other words, Colin in his statement defined it. You’re not arguing with me, you’re arguing with the definition Colin give in the piece itself. This is basic English. Period. End of story. You can take the second mention of grind out of context, but it’s actually 100% clear and backed up by stuff that was said after the manifesto was released

They’re talking about what you have in most other games, this annoying grind to get to the fun stuff.

I don’t know how anyone in their right mind can think he’s talking about gear. Particularly when the last line of the paragraph states “we want to change the way people view combat”.

What Colin is talking about (and what he talked about after confirming it) is the leveling up you have to do in other games, to get to the fun stuff. He says this directly in the manifesto.

Everyone has agendas. Everyone wants to take the one line out of the piece and try to define the word grind differently and true, that word CAN be defined differently…unless it’s defined in the document itself.

I’m an editor by trade. I turn off my agenda when reading something. Most people can’t do this.

Fernling.1729:

Jski.6180:

I just though of something how many likes did other games that went F2P get on Facebook?

Swtor is something like 2.5 million.

Sure it’s still Star Wars though. That’s a major franchise. And it was EA with a HUGE advertising budget. I’m wondering how many of the 2.5 million where pre launch. lol

Erasculio.2914:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

The game isn’t ‘all about grinding’.

Often it appears it is.

Vayne loves saying “I don’t grind”. Which is great. But does he matter to ArenaNet? The designers, when making the game, have to consider what most players want. When there’s a scenario in which a bunch of players want X and a bunch of players want Y, any developer has to priotitize who they will please (unless you know a developer with infinite resources).

So, what do most players want? To play to have fun, or to grind for rewards? I don’t know. No one here knows, other than ArenaNet.

However, looking at the forum, there are a lot more topics asking for rewards than topics asking for more complex dynamic events or better storytelling. In game, I see a lot of people farming the World Bosses, but significantly less people exploring the middle level maps.

And what has ArenaNet been doing? Are they focusing more on content for those who just want to have fun – better dynamic events, improved storytelling – or in rewards for grinders? They have just published a new blog post speaking about their incoming plans. There, they said:

ArenaNet

One of the main areas of focus for our blog at the start of the year was rewards

Uh…

What else have they been doing? We have the latest iteration of Southsun, for example. Did it feature improved dynamic events and a better, more complex way for ArenaNet to tell stories? Not really. Dynamic events were so poor that they basically recycled the same event twice in the same area (the instigator event), storytelling was so poor that the reveal of who was behind all troubles in the area came as a very small dialogue after a random event. Did it feature content for grinders? Sure, a 200% buff to Magic Find, repeteable events giving an infinite amount of chests, and so on.

ArenaNet told us they would rework the World Bosses to make them more fun, hopefully avoiding the “spam auto attacks and Alt+Tab” scenarios. Then they implemented the Karka Queen, a new World Boss. Is she a complex boss, with multiple phases, requiring combat awareness all the time? Not really, you can spam auto-attacks and Alt+Tab. Is she good for grinders? Sure, two rares per kill.

Is it fun to get rewards after playing fun content? Sure it is. So let’s see, what rewards are available to people who play to have fun, as opposed to grinding? I began playing before release, to give an example. Looking at the Golden title track achievement, I have banked less than 100 gold. That’s not enough to buy a set of Cultural armor for a single character, much less for all my 5 characters.

This is when Vayne would come blazing and say, “That’s your problem, I don’t grind and I have money for everything I want!”. Vayne has also said, in the topic asking people their /ages:

Vayne.8563:

3335 Hours over the past 9 months. Mind you, quite a bit of that time I’ve been on the forums at the same time. lol

That’s more than 12 hours. Per day. Each day. 7 days a week. Every week. For each month. For almost an year.

It doesn’t really make the game look any better if the ways to get rewards are grinding, or spending most of your life every day playing a video game.

So is the game all about grinding? It does look like most of the content ArenaNet has been doing is focused on grinders, yes.

Actually, I don’t think you’re right. Anet put that stuff in for people who have done everything and burned through the content to have something to do. Because no one can make enough content for the content locusts. But I think most people can barely keep up with the living story and just pop on casually. I don’t think most people have finished everything and I don’t think most people grind.

And you can’t prove they do. This is your little pet theory. I never claimed most people play like me. In fact, I know for a fact most people don’t play like me….but that’s a long haul from insisting most people grind. Grinders grind. Most people probably log in, kill some stuff and go live their lives.

Lenaro.5924:

There is genuinely not a single legitimate reason why dueling should not exist within the game.

snip

I personally detest /dance in games. I’m fine with it in certain circumstances, but there’s nothing more I hate than playing with a friend (He knows it too, and keeps at it, like a kitten) who consistently /dances when we’re roaming around committing mass genocide. Anyone can say that a particular element of the game “annoys them” or “takes them out of the game”, but that doesn’t mean the game should cater to it. By the way, I was serious about the dancing thing, I want to murder all of you who do it, ideally in some really painful way.

Also seems prudent to point out that there effectively is already dueling in the game that’s far more of an eye-sore than real dueling would ever be, which is the costume brawl. If dueling ruins your immersion how on earth do you see it as all good that a Moa and an Elemental can duke it out in LA square without interference.

If someone can come up with a better reason to not implement it than “I don’t want it so it shouldn’t be part of the game”, then by all means put me in my place. It just seems to be the case that all of the negative responses I’ve seen are rooted in “I want” thoughts and not genuine downfalls of the system.

Edit: Saw this post and decided to respond

Vayne.8563:

A mind reader you’re not.

I don’t want dueling because the type of player that is attracted to that stuff isn’t at all generally attacted to the type of game I want or play. In general I think the duelist community is incompatible with the community I’d rather see in the game. I feel the same about open world PvP of any kind.

This game is filled to the brim with conflicting communities and game-styles as are most moderately successful MMORPGs. If you think content releases should be filtered only to what you enjoy then I believe you might be in for a rough surprise. ANet has taken careful care trying to satiate all of their players, given their player base is highly divided in play-style.

You can duel anytime, any short wait is long enough for a duel. They can occupy you when bored, are a great medium for interaction within the community, especially meeting players you otherwise wouldn’t. It even entertains those who choose to not duel themselves. It’s a system that will contribute more than any other that exists in GW2 currently and will mold itself to every community in the game.

In short: dueling is a great type of dynamic content that allows players to make their own fun, which is something GW2 needs.

One last note, seems a lot of people are against dueling around crafters and I want to pose the question …Why?

Crafting is an utterly mundane aspect of the game, there is nothing interesting about the process once you’ve determined recipes and even prior to that it’s a pretty slim system. Usually you just hit a button and wait for 10,000 of an item to materialize in your inventory, do you really hate free entertainment during mundane tasks?

Ah, you misunderstand. This has nothing to do with only adding things to the game I like. This has to do with not adding something to the game that encourages a specific community to join.

It’s like not having open world PvP…the same sorts of “smack-talking” non-carebears if you will populate the world.

At present there’s more or less a divide between PvE and PvP. This is Anet’s signature. It existed in Guild Wars 1 and exists here. PvP is that way. PvE is this way. Anet has always kept the PvPers in their own area.

People are asking Anet to change how they do business because they think they know better. Well as a long time “care-bear” I can tell you seriously that you don’t. People like me and people like you don’t mix. We just don’t Put us together and you ask for problems.

We had an RPG guild and the guild leader opened it to PvPers. Pretty soon even mention of the word RP was enough to get you bullied. It was a bad move. I told the guild leader when he did it it was a bad move. The guilds split and everyone is happy.

I don’t care what they add to the game. I care if they change the existing game in a way that will make it worse for those playing any area of the game.

In this case, inviting those who like that to be with those of us who don’t is simply asking for trouble.

And if you don’t think the smack-talking, annoying constant chatter about pwning this guy won’t infiltrate chat…you’d probably be wrong.

zenleto.6179:

I’m glad it got bumped too. Vayne soloing the zerg again. Great times!

What are all those guys doing now I wonder?

Okay…this made me laugh.

offence.4726:

Alot of people seem to forget that this Game was advertised as a PvP centric one much like GW1 was if I remember correctly. Anet keeps on pushing PvP on to the e-sport scene even though the content patching was a bit late.

Every standard MMO from the last 10 years had/has a duel preset option , and quite a while ago Anet replied to this Duel feature with something like " we will see in the future " .

Even though I hope dueling will be implemented as soon as possible the PvE community has nothing to fear , an on/off duel setting and a special zone will not effect our lovely carebears that keep on finding reasons against it.

How do you presume to say this game was advertised as PvP centric. This isn’t true on any level.

The game was advertised for a year without a single mention of PvP and about 80-90% of everything they’ve do for advertising was PvE.

Amadan.9451:

Vayne.8563:

The story is only the beginning. They even TOLD you that in the scenes. If you think all heroes do nothing about heroic stuff…think again.

Right now, we’re doing other stuff. Fighting dragons isn’t important but helping keep the peace isn’t a bad job for a hero. Nor is throwing your support behind a potential captain’s council candidate.

I think standard heroic fantasy has been done to death. Frankly I wish there weren’t even dragons in this game.

sorry, i didn’t explain myself very well.
i think the politics could have had a lot of potential and it is very original for an on line game, and i don’t always want to fight dragons.

what i want is:
if i have to vote for this or that character my choice should be made story wise, not because they add one dungeon or the other.
also, i should do things like supporting because the story take me to it, not because i browse the achievement panel and see what’s next to do.
i don’t even mind a non linear story, and i like the fact that despite a bigger threats people still fight and plot agains each other, it is very good stuff, but i don’t feel involved in any of this, the storytelling is not compelling enough to make me care about.

when flame and frost started i was more interested in what was going on, and the memento collecting or the sign post building was just a part of that (although i shouldn’t be finished because i reached the 75 point of the achievement but because i built every sign post and found the memento for every npc who required it, like a scanvenging hunt. i loved the halloween scavenging hunt more than any other minigames added so far).

Ah I see. You’re a bit like me then.

I’m not voting for a character for a dungeon or a discount. I’m voting for a character I want to.

The thing is, I have different characters and different characters of mine support different candidates. For example, my human necro is a power hungry, control freak who supports Evon Gnashblade. My sylvari ranger and mesmer both support Ellen Kiel, who they like and trust.

I simply made the choice to play that way and that’s how I play.

With achievements it’s harder, but there’s definitely a hard line between what I know and what my characters know. Some of my characters wouldn’t be interested in the survival game at all…those characters won’t do it.

Keep in mind I have a lot of characters.

I even turn off the map markers on some characters and walk around without a check list of things to do. Makes the game much more enjoyable for me.

Nightmare the Quick.9284:

Yes you just have to run up an go in!

much easer then doing the events.

If that’s the case, I have to completely change my point of view. I mean I’m thinking it’s like CoF..the event isn’t done and you can’t enter….period.

If you can enter, I’m not sure what the fuss is about.

Galtrix.7369:

Randulf.7614:

Galtrix.7369:

Randulf.7614:

Galtrix.7369:

So, in summary, you could say that Guild Wars 2 does fine on those patch days, but lacks enough players to be a successful mmo on other days.

The game sold 3 million in the West – the smallest market for an MMO. It hasn;t released in Asia fully yet. Even though a large chunk wont be playing anymore (people try and leave, its the way of all mmos), I don’t understand why people don;t think this is successful just because it isn;t living up to their own expectations. I’m fully aware of GW2 failings and the poorness of Living Story so far, but I can also easily see how successfull this game has been so far and with so much more potential yet to come.

LOTRO is dying and is putting everything into Helms Deep. Whena company sends out surveys and questionnaires to email addresses asking “what’s wrong”,..thats when you know a company is worried.

Anarchy Online. Maybe 10,000 players? Maybe half that? Still Funcoms most successful game and biggest cash cow. 12 years on, virtually no content updates, no sign of dying on the horizon

Eve. As stated – critically acclaimed. Probably the most well known MMO after Wow currently active. Playerbase small in comparison to many

GW2 is not dying. It needs improvements in a lot of places, but still successful. As for Facebook? I don’t use it, so wont give it a thumbs up. 1 million was quite a stretch target I feel..

I never said it was dying. I said that the game probably didn’t have the amount of players Anet would like to have, so they implemented the 2 week content system.

And again, I didn’t say it wasn’t successful in general. Please, read what I post. I said it was successful only on patch days and the rest of the days were not. That’s why Anet brought in the achievement point rewards system. To get more people playing every day instead of just patch days. But, guess what happened? Nobody cared enough about the rewards to play every single day, and they’re still playing only on patch days.

I did read what you wrote and saw nothing that justifies it failing outisde of patch days. I’m seeing (anecdotal evidence granted) more people playing than 6 months back outside of patch days. I agree Living STory/2 week patches haven’t been fantastic, but it could be argued we are a minority given the large number of players playing and not posting here.

I said it lacks enough players to be successful on other days. I did not say it fails. I did not say it’s dying. I did not say it will die.

When I say “lacks enough players to be successful”, I mean that, outside of patch days, there aren’t enough players you see running around. They’re all in Spvp and in WvW because that’s pretty much the only end game there is. When it’s not a patch day, I see maybe one person in my 10 hours of playing and running around in random maps. They’re all idling in LA or doing Spvp/WvW.

There’s plenty of people still playing. As much as playing any other MMO except for WoW. I can’t say how many people are playing WoW< but I do know that WoW has people complaining about dead servers and dead zones too. It’s hardly grounds to say WoW isn’t successful.

I don’t think your criteria to judge success if very well thought out.

mesme.5028:

Vayne.8563:

Guild Wars 2’s not losing steam. Anyone who thinks so isn’t around on patch days. There’s still a whole lot of people playing it.

It’s not a blockbuster with 7 million player, but then no MMO that’s been produced in the last 7 years is. Not one. So how do you measure success.

Everyone says Eve Online is successful and that has only 500,000 subscriptions. I’m pretty sure that more people play Guild Wars 2 than that (but I have no way to prove it).

Guild Wars 2 is doing fine. The people who don’t like it say it isn’t….but you can’t keep producing new content every 2 weeks if you’re not doing fine.

Anyone who says you can is delusional.

The problem gw2 will face is peeps like myself who have played the gw games a while, (im 7 years or so) and dislike all this mini game 3d platforming in gw2, peeps who wanted a gw2, not a new game with its lore, these peeps dont see gw2 as a worthy successor.

I wont say the game doesn’t stand on its own as a game, its still a good game, but it aint a gw2, so with this in mind when something better comes along i like many others will delete gw2, perhaps play gw1 and the new game we buy, im waiting to see what wildstar will be like, that looks fab:)

We will see in time, can gw2 last and hold a fan base like gw1 did?

As opposed to me and my wife who played Guild Wars 1 for five years, got our GWAMM, got our 50/50 and absolutely love Guild Wars 2.

You can’t put all Guild Wars 1 players in one box, because it doesn’t work. Guild Wars 1 sold about 7 million copies. How many of the people who bought it also played Tomb Raider or Sonic the Hedgehog or a zillion other games. How many people who played it like minigames like roller beetle racing or poly mock or the costume brawl.

I think you’ll find there’s a far wider ranger of Guild Wars 1 players than you think.

Nightmare the Quick.9284:

Ok hold the hell up here cowboys! so you are saying that farming an event is wrong and you don’t need to do it? all you have to do is run all over the place and kill crap and you get just as much stuff? lets think on that for a min.

So I stand in one spot and kill mobs get’s me drops while you run all over hell looking for crap to kill. sounds to me like standing in one spot and killing makes for better a time for me. Before you get all cranked up! doing that event in cursed shore did not stop anyone from getting in arah, so don’t go there. I think maybe you should put mommy and daddy’s card down and stop charging it up, paying for your gems

Are you saying you can get into Arah even if that event is going on and the waypoint is contested?

It’s a very different game. The big things about it that are different are that you can’t jump….it’s pathed…and it’s much more complex to get into…it’s not as accessible. For example, you have hundreds of skills, but you have to unlock them and each profession can have a secondary profession, so you can use two sets of skills.

For people who like to think it’s a great game. Unfortunately most people don’t like to think too much. lol

Guild Wars 2’s not losing steam. Anyone who thinks so isn’t around on patch days. There’s still a whole lot of people playing it.

It’s not a blockbuster with 7 million player, but then no MMO that’s been produced in the last 7 years is. Not one. So how do you measure success.

Everyone says Eve Online is successful and that has only 500,000 subscriptions. I’m pretty sure that more people play Guild Wars 2 than that (but I have no way to prove it).

Guild Wars 2 is doing fine. The people who don’t like it say it isn’t….but you can’t keep producing new content every 2 weeks if you’re not doing fine.

Anyone who says you can is delusional.

Lanceor.2763:

Is this a separate GW2 from ours? Or is Anet adding additional servers for the chinese version?

You can be there will be chinese servers.

snakeboy.3062:

I’m a very casual gamer and I didn’t play GW1, hadn’t even heard of it. What got me to GW2 was their Manifesto – it was all over the place: how this mmo was going to be different, how your PS affected the world in a meaningfull way, how there would be no gear treadmill. But the game I play now is far from that spirit, and with how the latest LS installments are progressing I don’t see it changing, but getting worse: this is becoming an achievement/reward driven game, based on, in my opinion, meaningless activities.

Many people see a big difference between the manifesto and the game as it is now. That is not up for debate I think. Like indigo said, it is a moot point how people interpret a manifest and value what a game delivered.

For some it does, for some it didn’t. For me, based on the manifesto, it absolutely didn’t and it’s getting worse.

Sorry but if people interpret the manifesto wrong, it’s their problem. I’ve pointed out numerous times how a single line taken out of context changes the definition of what’s being said.

In a writing class I taught, I used an example from Shakespeare…“Romeo, Romeo, wherefore are thou, Romeo” and asked the class what it meant.

100% of most classes said she was asking where Romeo was. They were all wrong.

Anet clearly defined in the manifesto what they meant by grind, then referred to that grind two lines later. The only thing really up for discussion here is the standards of school education in different countries.

ilr.9675:

The story of the evil Piemaster also had more plot than this… …but go ahead and keep defending it. Your knighting here is almost as entertaining as the “story” has been thus far

It’s a plot, about as much plot as you’ll find in most “events” in most MMOs. It doesn’t need defending. In fact, there are a whole lot of people that seem to be actively campaigning for one side or the other.

It doesn’t matter if you personally don’t like it or get it. Some people do.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Vayne.8563:

But trying to get random groups instead of joining a like-minded guild…that I’ll just never understand. I group for things every single day in my guild.
.

There… is.. an entire guild.. that thinks like you. That may be the most terrifying thing that I’ve read on the internet.

(tongue firmly in cheek)

LMAO! I say the same thing all the time. The only real qualification for joining my guild is insanity. lol

ilr.9675:

I said plot first… don’t correct me, thx, I know what I said

Well if you said plot than you’re defintely wrong, because there IS a plot. You may not like the plot. You may think the plot too simple, but the plot is definitely there.

There was an attempt by the aetherblades to get a seat on the Captain’s Council of Lion’s Arch, which causes the death of one of the Captains. We helped Ellen Kiel to figure it out and in the end, we uncovered the Etherblades.

It’s because of the vacancy that there’s a conflict between Evon Gnashblade and Ellen Kiel, which their popularity will help resolve. Both are making promises to the players of the game to garner their support. Players are showing their support by buying buttons.

That is definitely a plot. I’m not quite sure what you’re talking about.

I have little comment on what you’ve said. Your opinion is after all, your opinion.

But trying to get random groups instead of joining a like-minded guild…that I’ll just never understand. I group for things every single day in my guild.

Randomly finding people means I’m less likely to have a good time. I know why most of the people in my guild play.

ilr.9675:

Blueandwhite.1743:

What is this living story im really confused is there a guide anywhere?
Also i havent played since they Started those daily tokens what really has all been added? I stopped playing do my pc getting fried and I loved this game!

There’s something to be found?? …that’s news to me.

I’ve been pressing the interact key on every new NPC I can find and I’m still not aware of there being anything that could be considered a “plot” here to miss out on. Mostly just items on the Trading post that went way down in value and never really came back up (unless you’re talking about the monocle). I think the Skritt in Skittsburg actually have a deeper sense of Lore than this living story does right now. …they definitely have a more practical economy

I think you’re confusing lore and story. They’re definitely not the same thing. The living story has less lore…because it’s not lore…it’s story. And there IS a story.

There’s a bit of lore involving where the Zephyrites got their power crystals from in the first place, but most of what we’re seeing is story.

Erasculio.2914:

Vayne.8563:

People who want to bring up three year old videos to try to call the devs liars are simply wrong.

Of all your arguments against the Manifesto, this has to be the worst of them (which is saying a lot). ArenaNet kept a lot of Guild Wars players interested in GW2 by telling us what the game would be. The fact they stated their plans 3 years ago (which is very little time, as far as game development goes) doesn’t mean they have carte blanche to completely ignore their statements now. If anything, the difference between the Manifesto and the little things that were changed but no one cares about is how the details can change, but the design philosophy – what ultimately is the core of the game – should not have changed, no matter how long ago said philosophy was stated. It did change. In many ways, ArenaNet managed to both break a promise and tell its players a lie with the Manifesto.

(And your third worst argument, for the records, is how GW2 would be as close as possible to the Manifesto with current technology. If ArenaNet stated they would do more than they could possibly do, it’s their fault for overstating their own abilities.)

It’s not my worst argument ever. You simply refuse to see simple logic.

A game manufacturer says something 2 years before launch. 1.5 years before launch they say more. They add detail. Some details even “gasp” change. A year before launch more detail is added. Then they run a beta. You know, the thing that many of us played. There were reviews, videos. The actual game was shown. People generally knew what they were getting into pretty much precisely.

The only thing you can really complain about is the everything you loved about Guild Wars 1 line (clearly impossible since Mike O’Brien isn’t a mind reader and can’t know what everyone loved). Aside from that you take single statments out of context, ignore clarifications and everything else said in the two years before launch, and keep going back to the oldest expression of what the devs intended in a manifesto (which is a statement of intent in the first place, not a guarantee of delivery).

There was so much video and so much communication after the manifesto that anyone who even cared a bit about what would be in the game would know what would be in the game.

It’s not even research. Videos and reviews and information was EVERYWHERE. Yes, newer information always supercedes older information.

Do you know if you buy the official strategy guide, it still talks about dye seeds? Give me a break.

Actually you’re way off base here OP.

The story told in the books is not the story told in the game. It’s not the story told in Guild Wars 1 either. It’s the story that tells how Guild Wars 1 became Guild Wars 2. The story of Destiny’s Edge, the only thing that pertains directly to GW 2 is told in game.

Of course, if you’re not paying attention you won’t see that.

Much of the history and lore found in the books can be found in game as well. If you look for it,. it’s there. If you ignore it…well…basically there’s no substance to your complaint.

Peetee.9406:

Erasculio.2914:

It’s kinda sad that today there are so many people playing a game to get rewards, instead of playing to have fun. I guess that’s the MMORPG community.

Obtaining rewards is the fun part.

I don’t think anyone enjoys killing Tequatl for 157th time or pressing ‘F’ on 100 dragon pinatas. If you do, god bless you! I need to be challenged to enjoy the content.

Actually, I don’t kill Tequatl for the 157th time because I don’t go for rewards. In your mind people must do this stuff because they must have rewards. If you play for fun you don’t repeat mindless content.

Take the pinatas from your example. We had two weeks to do them. Every time I went to LA or another city I did a few. By the end of the first week, I was most of the way there…without grinding. I did that stuff in passing.

Some people ran out and farmed projectors? They competed with people to get them. Three days later, no one was on the projectors and I got them casually while going through zones on my way to doing other things. I got the reward without farming at all.

And I was having fun the whole time.