I’d like to like him. Honestly. When he isn’t defending GW2 he makes some nice points on other topics.
I never report him either. However, I’m feeling that tingle of incoming infractions.
You’d be surprised at how many people on this forum like me and send me PMs in support. I receive 5-10 PMs a month from people who agree with/support me, many of whom are lurkers and don’t post. I also have a group of about ten friends on the forum who support me and roughly an equal number of detractors.
I don’t just blindly defend Anet. Would you like me to point out threads where I’ve complained? I disagree with the intepretation of the manifesto from a purely English basis. This bringing up a two year old video (when there’s been a ton of new info since then) is simply rubbish. It doesn’t help the game at all. It’s not constructive…and it’s not correct.
People can bring it up till the cows come home and I’ll say my piece about it, because I believe they’re wrong. If you think me defending Anet on this issue makes me a fan boi or a white knight, you’d be wrong. This issue is the kind of issue I’ll argue about on ANY forum on ANY topic. It’s about people who want to say something means something without any real evidence of it.
I don’t edit posts, sorry, and anyone who points out unedited posts is being silly. This isn’t a college thesis, I’m making a simple point. Pointing out my quote not being exact is completely irrelevant to the point I was making and the inaccuracy in no way affects that point. It’s just a red herring.
You feel the need to tell people you’re an educator. I am not asking you to edit. I am just pointing out that you damaged your own credibility by bringing it up in the first place and then making such a mistake.
It’s a fact that most people don’t know that wherefore means why and most people misinterpret that bit of literature.
Only present things as facts if you have empirical data. Without that it’s an assumption, no matter how likely it seems.
It’s also a fact that when something is defined in a document, the further uses of that word, particularly immediately after, retain that definition. There’s no reason in the world to suppose that in the beginning of the paragraph Colin meant one thing by grind and by the end of the paragraph he’d suddenly changed his definition of grind. That so many people mistook it is not an issue. Lots of people mistake lots of things…it doesn’t make them right.
As I said before, there was a context that not everybody is aware of. For years, during GW1, they talked to us. And interestingly enough Anet did a complete turn-around just after that manifesto has come out. Not many people of the original GW team are left now. To me that’s no coincidence. But yeah, out of context the manifesto is just a piece of marketing open for interpretation, specifically as the definition of grind is rather dependent on the person. But marketing uses tactics to make people believe it means something, by implying things without actually saying it. That creates deniability for them. But it’s not very honest. It’s very common, but not very honest in my opinion.
And no, I won’t start editing posts. Once you edit for a living for a few years, you’ll learn to care a whole lot less about how well edited your IMs or forum posts are.
Again, I never asked you to edit your post. An assumption on your part. And really who cares what you’ve done for a living? You can make up your career as you please on a forum. It adds no credibility, it only detracts from your main point and if your point is so important, why don’t you focus on that?
You think it’s annoying that I focused on something that wasn’t your main point? Well, guess what? Here’s a mirror, you just did the same.
What I do for a living is directly relevant to me speaking English. People try to discredit me with being a “mindless” fan boi, or saying I’m completely blind. My defense is that I have complained about things in this game, and I’ve supported others who did when I agree. Since that defense hasn’t held traction, I speak that I have specific experience in this area. You don’t have to believe that I have that experience and frankly I could care less. It’s true. You can call me a liar if you want, and that would be fine…because it’s no more true than calling me blind or mindless.
So if my profession supports my expertise in an area (and no one who reads this without having deeply held feelings about what grind means in the first place) could possibly say it means anything other than what I’m saying or at the very last, can’t possibly justify it talking about gear grind. That’s just ludicrous. Nothing in the entire paragraph supports that. It’s just people who want to take a line out of context, use their previously existing definition of grind (in spite of the fact that we have one already provided) and then try to make it sound like it means something other than it means.
Maybe if people would stop using words like blind and mindless, or even fan boi or white knight to try to discredit me, then I wouldn’t have to return the favor.
I think everyone who has read your posts realizes you have a very strong agenda of trying to make up as many excuses to defend ArenaNet as possible (with the little token criticism here and there to save face). That’s probably why so many ignore the way you try to defend the Manifesto – your arguments are biased due to your own agenda.
How is his argument biased or based on an agenda? He’s stating his opinions same as you. It’s unfortunate that people feel the need to gang up on him due to his frequent posting. I’ve read nothing but calm, collected, thoughtful posts from him, and all I see him get is bile in return. Turning the discussion from it’s topic to an attack on his credibility is a sign of a weak argument.
I think this thread should be closed because it doesn’t seem to be about discussing how to interpret the manifesto anymore, so much as attacking people who don’t share a preconceived interpretation.
I suggest you read his post history a bit better. Far too many gems of
I know more than you
I’m better educated than you
I comprehend more than you
I understand more than you
I know what the devs meant, more than you
I have a better understanding of MMOs than youOn and on. He claims to take that tone because of frustration about being “attacked” but, doing what he does just generates more aggro. He is indeed taking heat, like a tank doing taunts.
Its pretty much I’m right, you are wrong, and here is why [ insert commentary on education, comprehension, knowledge, etc]
And its funny you mentioned credibility attacks.. its a staple in his posts. You don’t make friends by basically saying “I’m right, because you are too dumb to be right”
Maybe you should read the post history of those who attack me,. before you jump to conclusions. I’ve been attacked far more directly than I’ve ever attacked anyone. People use terms like fan boi and white knight to discredit me, and that’s perfectly okay. When you get marginalized for a while, you learn to defend yourself, and that’s all I’m doing.
Someone says I can’t possibly be right because I’m a fan boi and I’m blind. So I say well yeah, but I’m educated too. Not necessarily more educated than that person but my editing experience makes me qualified to interpret English and the English is this case really can’t be questions…unless you’re being completely disingenuous.
You simply don’t agree with me, so you want to pick on my behavior…but you’re not taking into account the behavior against me that makes it necessary. This shows your bias.
If I intepret something the only way in can be interpreted in English (and I’ve gone back to several editors on this now to double check the meaning), and someone else says, no that’s not what it means…I’ll stick the the editor’s view of the definition.
People have an agenda. They want to discredit the manifesto. Part of it is because I defend it. Standing on it’s own the manifesto has some confusing areas which Anet did clarify (and I wish to hell they’re repost that clarification) and a couple of lines, taken out of context where people decided to super-impose their own definition of what Colin is saying. There is zero information in that paragraph to lead to anyone interpreting the word grind as gear grind or farming. Not one thing except the word grind itself. The beginning and end of the paragraph belie what people are saying. They simply don’t care.
If you cared about the truth, you’d stop with the personal attacks, and you’d discuss the text. But people are so interested in baiting me, they’ve even called in Vain baiting on the forums, in threads which have gotten deleted. There are several of them.
Maybe you don’t know as much about the history of these forums as you think you do,. and maybe you should stop judging people without knowing the full story.
Okay…I agree…and I disagree.
The problem with permanent content from other games I’ve played is how much they divide the player base. Just about every other game has instances that never or almost never get played. They sit there.
Some new guy comes in, he wants to do the instance and he can’t. Why? Because no one wants to do it.
This would depend on the content. If you’re talking about raids and instances made ‘moot’ through an MMO’s expansions, that’s just the developers flat-out neglecting them to encourage players to buy the ‘newest and coolest’ content. This is a poor way to go about it.
A great way to go about it? Sorrow’s Furnace from GW1. That content is still there, still relevant, and still fun. They could also apply the scaling you see from events apply to the content they could create, if player numbers should become an issue.
And it’s not about just making the temporary content permanent, it’s about making permanent content: focusing more on stable pieces of game, less on quality>quantity content.
Guild Wars 1 had heroes. Guild Wars 2 does not and that changes the equation complete. I could solo Sorrow’s Furnace. I couldn’t solo MF. More to the point, I couldn’t solo Sanctum Sprint or Crab Toss either…and that’s all content that people want left in the game too.
How many mini games can a game support?
I took my like off because the facebook page moderators will delete ANY negative comment, even if it is valid and well represented.
this is pathetic but Microsoft did the same after E3 X1’s ****storm by deleting everything negative on their official youtube page but there was so much negativity from everyone that they just blocked all comments lmao. Mods deleting negative comments (this was on this forum as well but i noticed it got better, you can at least be negative/give reason why you dislike something and not be 100% moderated and message deleted) just shows how many people were disappointed with gw2 and how much it failed to deliver.
By this logic, every single MMORPG is disappointing and fails to deliver. All of them, including WoW, Rift, Lotro, because every single MMORPG’s game forums are predominantly negative.
So what you’re really saying is all MMOs suck. Because I’ve not found a single MMORPG with official forums that are predominantly positive.
No. Just no. WoW’s forums are about an equal balance of positives/negatives. Rift’s forums are pretty positive, because most people are happy with the direction that Rift took.
People complain about Guild Wars 2 for a reason. Sure there are some people that complain about nothing, but if there are complaints every single day on the forums, and people agree with them? That’s a signal that Anet did something wrong.
Research before you say something. Not all forums are predominantly negative.
I was on the Rift forums for a long long time. And Rift lost a HUGE percentage of those negative people, including me, because we didn’t like the game.
So Rift had like 6 guys left playing it when they went free to play. That’s it. It was done by then. When Rift was new and at this point, for forums were a cesspool.
It’s like Vanguard. Vanguard’s forums are positive too. Why? Because six guys who still play it obviously like it. But let’s not belabor the point. Rift has a third of the likes of Guild Wars 2 on Facebook. If the forums are so positive, why isn’t it more popular?
Could it be that it’s already left with only the people who like it.
And that might very well be the point. Just because people don’t like something, doesn’t mean there’s something wrong with it. The stuff I didn’t like in Rift and I complained about wasn’t something wrong with the game. It was something wrong with the game for my specific play style. The game was fine…it wasn’t fine for me.
I was able to admit that on the Rift forums. It’s not that the game is bad, it’s just not what the game could be for my play style.
I wish more of the naysayers here could recognize that the game is fun for a whole lot of people and if they feel disenfranchised…maybe—just maybe—it’s an incompatibility and not a flaw.
Of course there are issues with the game. I’ve spoken out against them too. But complaint threads about not having dueling or raids is not an issue with the game for me.
There’s no way to track which ones you’ve done, because unlike hearts, they’re meant to be repeated. But after a while, you learn which types of events you enjoy and which you don’t. For example, I enjoy escort quests (and this is this first game that’s true for). So I do escort quests when I come across them.
Just do the ones you enjoy, skip the ones you don’t.
Actually for me didnt killed at all, cause i prefer good game mechanics overall than graphics and a roll each 10 seconds, still playing some betas atm with simmiliar mechanics.
Yes, me too. I prefer good game mechanics over graphics too. That’s why I hate the trinity…possibly the worst game mechanic ever made (in my opinion).
I already said…
Make a poll of an 1% of players.The result is possibly not fault proof but its an indicator.
If the result is like 90% or more agreeing on sn option.
he number was too high in fact the thread was deleted.
The final point is:
Give some reasons to discredit some statystical evidence. (that was the biggest thread this forum ever seen).P.S: this is why i used the word “normal” and i said my english skill could just distort the meaning.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_distribution
Except that you’re falling into one of the big pitfalls of this argument. If 80% of the people who come to the forums come to complain (which seems to be the case in most games), the the forum population is not representative of people playing the game. It’s the same in every game I’ve ever played. The forum population, on the whole, is less supportive of the game than people who don’t post.
In the end, people do come here to complain so they’re not “normal”. They’re the exception. So what you’re saying is most of the exception is normal, but that’s just not logical.
Yep that line is the only line in the manifesto I’d question…everything you love about Guild Wars 1. Everything WHO loves? It’s obviously marketing. But of course, some people took it as gospel…in spite of the fact they knew not only that the skill system was different but how it was different.
And though Guild Wars 2 lacks some of Guild Wars 1’s freedom, Guild Wars 1 lacks some of Guild Wars 2’s freedom. Which freedom you crave depends on what’s important to you.
I absolutely hated the pathing in Guild Wars 1. How you couldn’t really wander off road. How my ranger couldn’t jump over a log. Guild Wars 1 is a pretty linear experience, compared to Guild Wars 2 at any rate.
I just don’t really see how temporary content can be supported. Are there players out there who genuinely enjoy the availability? More importantly, why? And is their ‘enjoyment’ from that more important than that of new and returning players?
This artificial sense of urgency is very shaky. Maybe there’s hope with their talk of wanting to add more permanent content, but until we get more details and see what other content that make concrete, right now is a very concerning route.
Okay…I agree…and I disagree.
The problem with permanent content from other games I’ve played is how much they divide the player base. Just about every other game has instances that never or almost never get played. They sit there.
Some new guy comes in, he wants to do the instance and he can’t. Why? Because no one wants to do it.
Because the content is coming so fast and furious, there’d be 26 updates a year with multiple things in each update. It would be unsustainable.
Take the races from this patch. Some people really like it but how many people will do it when there are 16 mini games instead of four. Then you’ll not have enough to do any of it. Anet ran into this situation with PvP in the original Guild Wars and it’s one of the reasons they didn’t make multiple PvP formats. They said so.
In the end, I don’t really like it the way they’re doing it either. I’d prefer patches to be more spaced out and give people more time to breathe.
But if they continue the way they’re doing it, I dont’ really think leaving that stuff in the game is the best policy. I think it would divide the playerbase too much and most of the stuff wouldn’t get used anyway.
No one knows the internal workings or conflict inside a company. All we know is what’s told to us…and it’s never everything.
CoH was a great game. It should still be going strong…but for some reason NcSoft closed it down. Why would that be? If you were making money from something why would you shut it down? There has to be a reason…we just don’t know the reason.
It could have been a disagreement at a management level that they couldn’t resolve. It could have been other things as well. In the end, we just don’t know.
But we do know that Guild Wars 2, so far at least, is one of NCSoft’s top selling games. No one can tell what the future will bring though.
I know i have been annoyed with a-net over a few things.
I feel this is not the game the devs in the manifesto doing the sales pitch talked about,
but i guess that is all it was a sales pitch, i try to think atm, well done them they got peeps to buy it.I guess the devs are told what to do by investor’s and shareholder’s, but idk for sure who tells them what to do, they must look back at what they told us and think i hatted having to lie to peeps to get sales but guess their jobs would be on the line if they didn’t.
So im thinking now its not really their fault, as for 1 mill likes on facebook, i think there is far better mini games there than in gw2, so perhaps they shouldn’t have done it there, again maybe they well told too idk.
While i do like gw2 ( mini games and jumping excluded) i don’t think i could give the game a thumbs up as i like many others feel cheated in the game we got, perhaps if they had been honest from the outset and said gw2 will be a 3d plaform type mmo with mini games content then peeps would vote.
I dunno what you watched, but it wasn’t the same manifesto I watched.
Using sarcasm to pretend that you are not in denial of obvious things doesn t help much.
11.000 posts thread.
Same posts opened after months is having answersAnd if its not enough most public press already gave the same opinion than MOST player that expressed themselves on the argument
So if with any wordplay or inricate logic someone tried to find that the manifesto was not broken doesn t change a simple fact.
Manifesto gave CLEAR expectations.
If you ask a player who never seen GW2 what can understand from that manifesto and then shows him GW" he will say it have been broken in its core points.The Manifesto again?
Oh well I bought the game because of the manifesto- guess what?
I got exactly what I expected.
How is it possible that I understood what it meant and intended?Don t know…
You should try to explain your unconventional view to normal players and press that already expressed with reasons.The delete of the thread was a clear answer, the refunds were another possibly (but they deleted any post about that).
So people who agree with you are normal players..and people who agree with me and Morgan aren’t.
I see.
I’m not thinking this makes your argument much sounder than it already was.
You are a random player.
11.000 random players just are the normal (statistically and mathematically…..my bad english knowledge can just distort the meaning i have of tha word).
So show me some thousands posts about the manifesto being respected and you become as much as credible..
I don’t have to. Let’s pretend there are 100 people posting in this thread. I didn’t count but for argument’s sake.
That’s not enough of a percentage of the player base to say ANYTHING at all….certainly not to call someone normal.
What if Guild Wars 2 had 500,000 players and 300,000 of them had never seen the manifesto? Then neither of us would be normal.
You can’t just throw words like normal around and expect to be taken seriously. We do know one thing though. People who post in game forums are a tiny percentage of the game’s population by percentage, and thus not normal.
I know i have been annoyed with a-net over a few things.
I feel this is not the game the devs in the manifesto doing the sales pitch talked about,
but i guess that is all it was a sales pitch, i try to think atm, well done them they got peeps to buy it.I guess the devs are told what to do by investor’s and shareholder’s, but idk for sure who tells them what to do, they must look back at what they told us and think i hatted having to lie to peeps to get sales but guess their jobs would be on the line if they didn’t.
So im thinking now its not really their fault, as for 1 mill likes on facebook, i think there is far better mini games there than in gw2, so perhaps they shouldn’t have done it there, again maybe they well told too idk.
While i do like gw2 ( mini games and jumping excluded) i don’t think i could give the game a thumbs up as i like many others feel cheated in the game we got, perhaps if they had been honest from the outset and said gw2 will be a 3d plaform type mmo with mini games content then peeps would vote.
I dunno what you watched, but it wasn’t the same manifesto I watched.
Using sarcasm to pretend that you are not in denial of obvious things doesn t help much.
11.000 posts thread.
Same posts opened after months is having answersAnd if its not enough most public press already gave the same opinion than MOST player that expressed themselves on the argument
So if with any wordplay or inricate logic someone tried to find that the manifesto was not broken doesn t change a simple fact.
Manifesto gave CLEAR expectations.
If you ask a player who never seen GW2 what can understand from that manifesto and then shows him GW" he will say it have been broken in its core points.The Manifesto again?
Oh well I bought the game because of the manifesto- guess what?
I got exactly what I expected.
How is it possible that I understood what it meant and intended?Don t know…
You should try to explain your unconventional view to normal players and press that already expressed with reasons.The delete of the thread was a clear answer, the refunds were another possibly (but they deleted any post about that).
So people who agree with you are normal players..and people who agree with me and Morgan aren’t.
I see.
I’m not thinking this makes your argument much sounder than it already was.
“Guild Wars 2 takes everything you love about Guild Wars 1, and puts it into a persistent world.”
That’s quite a statement, a bit loaded, possibly presumtuous, and veeeery vague. Not a whole lot to dissect there, even with context. So what did I love from GW1?
If I had to pick one thing that I wanted from GW1 to go to GW2, it would have to be the freedom. The ‘freedom’ is what I sought after spending time in WoW and other MMOs. I never once felt obligated to log-in, to hurry things up for the next batch of content. I could play whenever I wanted to and not miss anything – and I never did.
GW2’s emphasis on temporary content really hurts that. In a typical WoW-MMO, I’m encouraged to play as much of the latest content to be properly geared for the upcoming content. In GW2, I’m encouraged to play as much of the latest content as I can because it’s likely to not be around much longer. That’s not the freedom I enjoyed in GW1.
And from a gameplay perspective, I don’t really get it. Why can’t I replay any of it? I can run CoF as many times as I want, keep remaking characters to experience certain story paths, and pretty much to some degree replay anything else in the game. Is it to instill a sense of a ‘living story’? How’s that going to happen when it only applies to a freckle of the game?
“To make money” is a reason I can grasp, but GW2 came with a price tag, it’s not like they can’t make money selling the game. I’d prefer them to milk money out of potential customers and not current ones.
Yep that line is the only line in the manifesto I’d question…everything you love about Guild Wars 1. Everything WHO loves? It’s obviously marketing. But of course, some people took it as gospel…in spite of the fact they knew not only that the skill system was different but how it was different.
And though Guild Wars 2 lacks some of Guild Wars 1’s freedom, Guild Wars 1 lacks some of Guild Wars 2’s freedom. Which freedom you crave depends on what’s important to you.
I absolutely hated the pathing in Guild Wars 1. How you couldn’t really wander off road. How my ranger couldn’t jump over a log. Guild Wars 1 is a pretty linear experience, compared to Guild Wars 2 at any rate.
So wikipedia is a random person?
Do you know who Hyphz is?
No?
He’s the guy who wrote that content.
And to your claim that everything in Wikipedia is true, well, guess what the Grinding article says about Guild Wars 2?
“Guild Wars 2, the sequel to Guild Wars, departs from the formula found in Guild Wars, with a clear gear treadmil”.
So I guess now it’s a fact that GW2 has a “clear gear treadmil”, then?
I’ll let others read your posts and decide if they want to believe your version or mine.
Vayne, I already told you – it’s clear as day that you have a very strong agenda in trying to find excuses for ArenaNet. You are assuming you have a credibility that isn’t there (much like Wikipedia, for the records). It’s not hard to not believe in your posts when you are defending ArenaNet – that’s what you do all the time anyway, with the token criticism here and there.
Well, I don’t know, I didn’t FIRST find out what I was saying from Wikipedia, I just went there for confirmation. See, I already KNEW how the word has been typically used, so I’m quite willing to believe what it says in Wikipedia. I’m sure it says it in other places as well, but I’ll let you do your own research.
My own experience and research has born out the wikipedia article. The truth is you’d rather attack Anet when you’re completely and demonstrably wrong, over something that is pretty much basic knowledge of the genre. If you don’t know what grinding is or how it’s been used over the years, fair enough.
But that has nothing to do with me having an agenda. My agenda is for people to learn to communicate better…including Anet.
Are you sure you really want to argue about the original defintion and how most people use it?
Yes. Because your little definition of grind is just a random person’s definition, being exploited as much as possible to make up excuses for ArenaNet. Can you give anything close to an evidence that most people use your or Wikipedia’s definition of the word “grind”?
No?
So yep. All you have are excuses.
So wikipedia is a random person? No one fact checks it no one else has ever said those words.
Okay. So you don’t believe that’s the original and most used definition of grind.
I’ll let others read your posts and decide if they want to believe your version or mine.
It’s one thing to have Colin talking about one thing, Ree talking about something else and editing making it confusing (which was clarified).
You mean, like…
“I went to the village and swung my sword. Then I swung it again – hey! I thought they were too busy grinding to get to the fun stuff, like in most villages, but ten minutes later they told me I was the best kitten sword swinger they’d seen in the last ten minutes. They remembered.”
It’s another to say that Colin on one paragraph where he defines a word, means something different the second time he uses it. It’s not reasonable.
Yes. Let’s change the way people view combat. Instead of swinging swords and swinging them again – hey! – let’s dispense with the boring grind associated with subsequent sword swinging and make combat more dynamic and fun. Let’s have the players actively kiting and dodging and casting on the run. Won’t that be fun stuff, guys? Yes! Fun stuff indeed!
(And they threw in a heaping helping of red circles to make the dodging even more fun. I particularly enjoy dodging out of one red circle into another one. I find it quite stimulating. And innovative.)
Then, in a dramatic (and potentially confusing) turn of events, they took many (note: ‘many’ does not mean ‘all’) of the things we are going to use all this fun and innovative combat against and turned them into a boring grind, and while they were at it, they reduced a great deal (note: the phrase ’ a great deal’ does not mean ‘all’) of the other fun stuff to the (itsy bitsy teeny weeny but fortunately not yellow polka dot – yet!) chance of getting something cool (and fun) when the non-boring, non-grindy innovative combat is over. Or stuffed it into one box in a bajillion (note: imaginary number – see also: hyperbole – used for dramatic effect). Or made it so that getting it requires mass quantities of boring (but not necessarily combative!) grind.
So. Did they change the way people view combat? Perhaps. Perhaps not. Attempts to settle this would be, I suspect, in vain. Ahem. In the end, however, combat is still combat, it’s still swinging a sword, and it’s still swinging it again, over and over (and over and over) until the boring grind you’re combating is finally dead (at least until it remembers to respawn ten minutes – or less! – later), at which point you’re probably going to get some blues or greens that you probably can’t use anyway, or maybe even nothing at all, unless you’re one of the fortunate few who get precursors for killing rats.
Yes. Yes, it’s all so very clear. How was anyone ever confused by anything in the Manifesto?
The problem here is confusion which isn’t lying. Now if the manifesto indeed did confuse you, you have had many many years after it to find out what was actually in the game. But you’re still missing the point.
Active combat, at the time the manifesto was made, was woefullly rare in MMOs. I mean there wasn’t a lot of it at all. So yes, when people played Guild Wars 2 they loved the combat…surely at first. 3 year old manifesto remains three years old.
And they’re talking about stuff (and this is an example Colin gave) about having encounters like the Shadow Behemoth right in a starting zone. You know when the game launched and it didn’t have those guaranteed golds, those events were really awesome. It’s the guaranteed golds that game MUCH MUCH after launch that changed the nature of those fun events. That’s what Colin was talking about. Not just moving from quest hub to quest hub, skipping a wall of text to follow an arrow to get to the star. That’s not fun. That was NEVER fun. It’s more fun to have things just happen as you go through the world, at least for some of us. And that’s the kind of thing Colin was talking about.
Now everyone’s definition of fun is going to be different. This is why anyone who wants to know more about the game, can research the game and find out about it. Exactly what a dynamic event was was well known long before launch. How they worked, how they cycled, how some were part of chains and some were stand alone. And you could learn about the personal story.
Honestly people saying they were misled about an entire game from a five minute video made two years before the game came out are pushing the envelope of plausibility.
Maybe, MAYBE if you watched the manifesto, decided you liked the game from it and watched NOTHING ELSE, I’d have a modicum of sympathy for those who feel misled, but for the most part, this information people are saying they’re not getting was pretty much everywhere.
It’s completely disingenuous to suggest otherwise.
This isn’t even an argument. It’s simply poor comprehension.
Indeed.
I’m not sure you realize you are talking about yourself, though.
You see in MMO parlance what people did was grind levels. That’s what it was and that’s what old gamers talk about.
“MMO parlance”, “what old gamers talk about”… Excuses. You have zero basis on those statements. They are just a way to find excuses for what ArenaNet has said.
From the first paragraph on Grinding in Wikipedia:
“Grinding is a term used in video gaming to describe the process of engaging in repetitive tasks during video games. 12 The most common usage is in the context of MMORPGs like Realm of the Mad God, Tibia, or Lineage 3 in which it is often necessary for a character to repeatedly kill AI-controlled monsters, using basically the same strategy over and over again to advance their character level to be able to access newer content. MUDs, generally sharing much of the same gameplay as MMORPGs, encounter the same problem. Grinding may be required by some games to unlock additional features.”
Are you sure you really want to argue about the original defintion and how most people use it? This wasn’t just stated by me here, but other people over the course of the months. That’s what grinding was. You don’t have to believe it, but that hardly changes it.
I know i have been annoyed with a-net over a few things.
I feel this is not the game the devs in the manifesto doing the sales pitch talked about,
but i guess that is all it was a sales pitch, i try to think atm, well done them they got peeps to buy it.I guess the devs are told what to do by investor’s and shareholder’s, but idk for sure who tells them what to do, they must look back at what they told us and think i hatted having to lie to peeps to get sales but guess their jobs would be on the line if they didn’t.
So im thinking now its not really their fault, as for 1 mill likes on facebook, i think there is far better mini games there than in gw2, so perhaps they shouldn’t have done it there, again maybe they well told too idk.
While i do like gw2 ( mini games and jumping excluded) i don’t think i could give the game a thumbs up as i like many others feel cheated in the game we got, perhaps if they had been honest from the outset and said gw2 will be a 3d plaform type mmo with mini games content then peeps would vote.
I dunno what you watched, but it wasn’t the same manifesto I watched.
Using sarcasm to pretend that you are not in denial of obvious things doesn t help much.
11.000 posts thread.
Same posts opened after months is having answersAnd if its not enough most public press already gave the same opinion than MOST player that expressed themselves on the argument
So if with any wordplay or inricate logic someone tried to find that the manifesto was not broken doesn t change a simple fact.
Manifesto gave CLEAR expectations.
If you ask a player who never seen GW2 what can understand from that manifesto and then shows him GW" he will say it have been broken in its core points.
The only line in the manifesto I’d take exception with, based on English anyway, is the line about taking everything you love about Guild Wars 1, and face it, Mike O’Brien isn’t a mind reader. He can’t possibly know what everyone liked about Guild Wars 1. But aside from that bit, the manifesto pretty much holds up.
Whatever expectations you’ve brought with you is based on bad editing (Ree was talking about personal story and Colin was talking about dynamic events) and your own expectation or taking something out of context.
Otherwise, the manifesto is fine.
There’s no reason in the world to suppose that in the beginning of the paragraph Colin meant one thing by grind and by the end of the paragraph he’d suddenly changed his definition of grind.
No? Someone around here claimed they blamed the, shall we say, manifest confusion on bad editing.
The video editing, that is to say, taking Colin’s bit and Ree’s bit and interposing them to make it more interesting/exciting. But both mentions of grind where in the same segment here. The same paragraph. There’s no confusion in the English language here.
It’s one thing to have Colin talking about one thing, Ree talking about something else and editing making it confusing (which was clarified). It’s another to say that Colin on one paragraph where he defines a word, means something different the second time he uses it. It’s not reasonable.
You’re the one who’s been unreasonable.
It’s very easy english, and you still refuse all logic.You’re defending that they were intelligent and correct in their english usage, and we are uneducated for failing to understand their extremely organized speech – that was somehow poorly edited.
Let’s take a look at that “correctness”, shall we?They don’t define “Grind” as “doing boring things to get to the fun stuff”.
They use “boring” + “Grind” + “to get to the fun stuff” in the same sentence, wich clearly indicates they are three different things – so “boring” is one thing, “Grind” is another, and “boring” + “Grind” + “to get to the fun stuff” is another thing entirely.You don’t say “undry wet” or “huge big” or “stinks with bad smell” – as you’re placing words with somewhat similar meaning together.
Likewise you wouldn’t say “boring Grind to get to the fun stuff” if “Grind” meant “boring things to get to the fun stuff”.This CLEARLY means that when they say “We simply don’t want players to Grind in GW2.” they do NOT mean “We simply don’t want players to grind to get to the fun stuff in GW2.”
It’s simple, it’s obvious.
Grind is grind, and it’s still Grind when they say it in this sentence.Would you expect ANet to go “kitten , you’re right, we kittened up.”?
Ofcourse not. They choose what they believe to be the lesser evil – to say what they meant was something else.But all of this is beside the point.
The game is a shadow of what it set out to be.There is no feeling of hero. You feel more of a nobody than in most MMOs.
The dynamic events are mostly meaningless and rotate every 15-60 minutes.
The big bad events – elemental, dragon, shadow, etc – are extremely simplistic.
They took away skill hunting and didn’t add anything meaningful in its place.GW2 has lost almost everything that made GW1 awesome.
And for what?
Since this has been covered many many times since the manifesto was created, I can only assume you want to argue over a point that is completely wrong. There’s nothing in Colin’s statement to suggest gear grind or farming at all. And we know for a FACT that Anet has said there will be things to grind for in Guild Wars 2 for people who like that play style but they won’t be required. This isn’t a guess. It’s a fact. It was said more than once.
And the paragraph ends “we want to change the way people view combat”.
You see in MMO parlance what people did was grind levels. That’s what it was and that’s what old gamers talk about. Farming isn’t grinding. You can say anything is grinding, but what in that paragraph leads you to believe Colin is talking about loot or grinding mats, or farming? There’s not one line in that paragraph that backs up what you say.
All you have is a single line, taken out of context, filled in with a definition of your choosing. It’s just bad intepretation. Defend it all you want, it’s demonstrably wrong.
It’s your interpretation, and it’s their excuse.
They don’t define grind.
They don’t say "Grind is “doing stuff repeatedly to get to the fun stuff”.
They say Grind “to get to the fun stuff.”
Wich means Grind is one thing, and Grind to get to the fun stuff is another thing.You choose to distort it to your white knighting convenience.
It’s funny how even “grind to get to the fun stuff” is suddenly meant to mean specifically “level grind”. That’s nowhere close to what Colin says…
There are some discussions not worth having, though. I think everyone in this forum has realized by now that Vayne won’t ever change his mind, even if Colin himself admitted how our dear editor is wrong. No amount of arguments is going to convince him, so it’s better we just ignore his posts about this subject.
(While still mentioning from time to time how the Manifesto was ultimatelly wrong, of course. Can’t allow people to forget that.)
It’s so funny that you guys, years after, can’t acknowledge something Anet has already explained. I’m regurgitating their explanation. Do you have any idea how many times since the manifesto that Colin has repeated this explanation. That in most games you play one game to get to max level and then play another game. They were talking and have said they were talking about having fun things to do at lower levels and all through the game. He ends he paragraph with we want to change the way people view combat. He doesn’t end the paragraph with we want to change the way people farm.
This isn’t even an argument. It’s simply poor comprehension.
First of all welcome to Guild Wars 2. In some ways, this game is less spoonfed than WoW. It gives you a bit more freedom.
So here’s what you need to know.
Heart “quests” are what get you into areas where dynamic events start. Dynamic events replace quests. There’s also a personal story (the green text in the quest area of your screen), that has no equivalent in WoW.
Use the heart quests and gathering and exploring to find dynamic events. If you see creatures that are higher than you are, go back a bit and stay in the areas you can do. Look for events. They spawn randomly. You can even go to other starting areas other than the one you started in, pretty much right away.
You start near your capital city and inside that city there’s a gate to Lion’s Arch which allows you to take a gate to other starting cities. So you can explore many low level areas.
The point is, you can stay in the earlier zones and keep leveling without ever moving on. You don’t finish a quest hub in this game.
Hope this helps.
You know I just looked up Rift. It has 350,000 likes…and it’s been around a whole lot longer then Guild Wars 2. It was even a pay to play game. I don’t really think the whole Facebook like thing is indicative of anything.
I love the whiteknights. Keep em coming.
So it’s still not at 1 million. What a surprise!
I like naysayers. They allow reasonable people to see the truth so much more easily.
Entitled much? The money is fine. It’s not supposed to buy you a legendary. It’s a bit extra…compared to most activities in the game, it’s pretty good. It’s an EXTRA reward for doing achievements. It’s a bit of a bonus, like what you get with a daily or monthly…it’s not supposed to make a huge difference.
The point is, people who already have 10,000 achievement points need the help a whole lot less than people who have hardly anything.
There’s no reason in the world to suppose that in the beginning of the paragraph Colin meant one thing by grind and by the end of the paragraph he’d suddenly changed his definition of grind.
No? Someone around here claimed they blamed the, shall we say, manifest confusion on bad editing.
The video editing, that is to say, taking Colin’s bit and Ree’s bit and interposing them to make it more interesting/exciting. But both mentions of grind where in the same segment here. The same paragraph. There’s no confusion in the English language here.
It’s one thing to have Colin talking about one thing, Ree talking about something else and editing making it confusing (which was clarified). It’s another to say that Colin on one paragraph where he defines a word, means something different the second time he uses it. It’s not reasonable.
I took my like off because the facebook page moderators will delete ANY negative comment, even if it is valid and well represented.
this is pathetic but Microsoft did the same after E3 X1’s ****storm by deleting everything negative on their official youtube page but there was so much negativity from everyone that they just blocked all comments lmao. Mods deleting negative comments (this was on this forum as well but i noticed it got better, you can at least be negative/give reason why you dislike something and not be 100% moderated and message deleted) just shows how many people were disappointed with gw2 and how much it failed to deliver.
By this logic, every single MMORPG is disappointing and fails to deliver. All of them, including WoW, Rift, Lotro, because every single MMORPG’s game forums are predominantly negative.
So what you’re really saying is all MMOs suck. Because I’ve not found a single MMORPG with official forums that are predominantly positive.
oh this guy again and his logic, have a nice day
Well, you make negative statements because you personally don’t like the game, many of which don’t stand up to scrutiny.
Saying people are complaining so the game is bad would apply to every MMO out there. This isn’t theory, it’s fact. If you can’t deal with the facts, that’s fine too. At least we’re forewarned.
i state the negativity because i want this game to be better, it deserves to be better. You completely ignore all negativity and live in your dreamworld where GW2 is the absolute perfection. That’s the difference. You close your eyes and don’t want to see the reality, until you open them don’t bother quoting me i won’t bother responding because its like talking to a pure fanboy and im not here for that.
Will you yell at your children 24/7 that they are worthless pieces of kitten that will never accomplish anything good in their lives? Because that’s what you do in here most of the time, and it sure as hell isn’t making the game any better, or the devs more willing to listen to your concerns.
Why is this thread still going on?
and what have you done to the game by telling everyone how you enjoyed that new mini puzzle? Nothing. If there’s a lot of people complaining about their current crappy updates it may change in the future, if not, mini jumping puzzles and mini games is the future of gw2. This thread is still going because lots of people see the potential but with every update it just fades away.
Actually very few of your posts, by percentage, offer anything other than saying something is bad. There’s no discussion here. No suggestions. Just you saying you don’t like the content on author, while implying most people don’t. You have no way to know that. None at all.
Keep in mind you can’t solo the last portion of your personal story. For that you would have to group. But getting to 80, no problem solo.
You don’t want to come to Tarnished Coast. We have too many people already. I heard there are other good servers out there too. lol
Sorry but if people interpret the manifesto wrong, it’s their problem. I’ve pointed out numerous times how a single line taken out of context changes the definition of what’s being said.
The manifesto was a piece of marketing. It was promising things that weren’t actually realised. Interpret all you want, but for a lot of people who were playing GW1 and were looking forward to GW2, there were a lot of developer comments along the way that certainly supported that interpretation of the manifesto. So I will kindly disagree with you on this point. There was context that I would suspect most current players aren’t even aware of that caused a lot of people to be upset when the game came out. Lots of people did stop playing because of exactly that.
Having said that though, this is normal for any MMO. The big difference I think is that more people were willing to believe Anet this time around because of how they handled GW1.
But, this is all in the past now to be fair. The manifesto was marketing spin and what’s happened has happened. The best thing for anybody to do is the disregard the name of the game and judge it on its own merits. GW2 seems very different than other MMOs but it’s not as different as people think. Hearts are just area quests, delivered in a different way with a bit more freedom on the activities. It’s still a matter of collect this, kill that and escort this person or defend this location. Same goes for the events.
The advantage is that you don’t have a quest log full of quests, the disadvantage is constantly running around trying to find events without much direction. It’s different and for some it’s great for others not so much. But as someone once said “Toto, I’ve a feeling we’re not in Kansas anymore.”, the only conclusion for me was that with GW2 we’re not in Guild Wars anymore. What that means to you as a gamer, depends on you. Some love it, some hate it. This is simply the way of things.
In a writing class I taught, I used an example from Shakespeare…“Romeo, Romeo, wherefore are thou, Romeo” and asked the class what it meant.
100% of most classes said she was asking where Romeo was. They were all wrong.
Anet clearly defined in the manifesto what they meant by grind, then referred to that grind two lines later. The only thing really up for discussion here is the standards of school education in different countries.
If you claim to be an educator and are going to quote Shakespeare, then at least do it right: “O Romeo, Romeo, wherefore art thou Romeo?”
I will trust you can find the rather unfortunate spelling mistake yourself.
I don’t edit posts, sorry, and anyone who points out unedited posts is being silly. This isn’t a college thesis, I’m making a simple point. Pointing out my quote not being exact is completely irrelevant to the point I was making and the inaccuracy in no way affects that point. It’s just a red herring.
It’s a fact that most people don’t know that wherefore means why and most people misinterpret that bit of literature. It’s also a fact that when something is defined in a document, the further uses of that word, particularly immediately after, retain that definition. There’s no reason in the world to suppose that in the beginning of the paragraph Colin meant one thing by grind and by the end of the paragraph he’d suddenly changed his definition of grind. That so many people mistook it is not an issue. Lots of people mistake lots of things…it doesn’t make them right.
And no, I won’t start editing posts. Once you edit for a living for a few years, you’ll learn to care a whole lot less about how well edited your IMs or forum posts are.
I took my like off because the facebook page moderators will delete ANY negative comment, even if it is valid and well represented.
this is pathetic but Microsoft did the same after E3 X1’s ****storm by deleting everything negative on their official youtube page but there was so much negativity from everyone that they just blocked all comments lmao. Mods deleting negative comments (this was on this forum as well but i noticed it got better, you can at least be negative/give reason why you dislike something and not be 100% moderated and message deleted) just shows how many people were disappointed with gw2 and how much it failed to deliver.
By this logic, every single MMORPG is disappointing and fails to deliver. All of them, including WoW, Rift, Lotro, because every single MMORPG’s game forums are predominantly negative.
So what you’re really saying is all MMOs suck. Because I’ve not found a single MMORPG with official forums that are predominantly positive.
oh this guy again and his logic, have a nice day
Well, you make negative statements because you personally don’t like the game, many of which don’t stand up to scrutiny.
Saying people are complaining so the game is bad would apply to every MMO out there. This isn’t theory, it’s fact. If you can’t deal with the facts, that’s fine too. At least we’re forewarned.
i state the negativity because i want this game to be better, it deserves to be better. You completely ignore all negativity and live in your dreamworld where GW2 is the absolute perfection. That’s the difference. You close your eyes and don’t want to see the reality, until you open them don’t bother quoting me i won’t bother responding because its like talking to a pure fanboy and im not here for that.
I don’t ignore things I don’t like. I like different things than you do. As long as you continue to think that your opinion is objectively right, you’re wrong whether you have a point or don’t.
I see my reality, you see your reality. You think you have a monopoly on reality but you don’t. You say people complain and that means the game is bad. Well people complain about all MMORPGS so by YOUR logic all MMOs are bad.
I strongly STRONGLY suspect that making this game into a game you’d want to play would destroy this game for me.
But you also ignore the threads where I’ve expressed my concerns. How does that fit in with your theory of my blindness?
I agree with this to a point, except for the bigger scale thing. At least when I played Rift, dynamic events didn’t link to each other. Rifts were self-contained and repetitive, and zone wide events linked to nothing.
I find the scale of dynamic events, the longer chains like in Orr or Hirathi Hinterlands to be much better than anything Rift did with dynamic events.
A lot of the rifts, the more ‘massive’ ones, did have some basis found through talking to NPCs, they varied in theme, and each had unique characters/adversaries. This isn’t a whole lot different from GW2. And while many invasions are relatively meaningless, GW2 events can lose their meaning due to how beneficial it is to farm them.
Ultimately it’s picking hairs. Not to say they’re not hairs that shouldn’t be picked, but the gameplay for both games in this regard is solid.
A rift that opens up and if no one does it closes by itself, just like the invasions. That’s no hair, that’s a major difference.
You’d see an outpost that was taken over by invaders and you didn’t have enough people to take it out, so you made a cup of coffee and waited till they evaporated.
Rift was better in beta 4 when those changes were permanent. But the company couldn’t make them permanent, because they left traditional questing in the game. And those quest hubs are where people needed to go to turn in their quest rewards. So the invasions have no weight at all to them.
At least in Guild Wars 2 if a temple is taken, it remains taken until taken back. It should have stayed that way in Rift too.
I took my like off because the facebook page moderators will delete ANY negative comment, even if it is valid and well represented.
this is pathetic but Microsoft did the same after E3 X1’s ****storm by deleting everything negative on their official youtube page but there was so much negativity from everyone that they just blocked all comments lmao. Mods deleting negative comments (this was on this forum as well but i noticed it got better, you can at least be negative/give reason why you dislike something and not be 100% moderated and message deleted) just shows how many people were disappointed with gw2 and how much it failed to deliver.
By this logic, every single MMORPG is disappointing and fails to deliver. All of them, including WoW, Rift, Lotro, because every single MMORPG’s game forums are predominantly negative.
So what you’re really saying is all MMOs suck. Because I’ve not found a single MMORPG with official forums that are predominantly positive.
oh this guy again and his logic, have a nice day
Well, you make negative statements because you personally don’t like the game, many of which don’t stand up to scrutiny.
Saying people are complaining so the game is bad would apply to every MMO out there. This isn’t theory, it’s fact. If you can’t deal with the facts, that’s fine too. At least we’re forewarned.
Honestly, I hated GW1 and I didn’t expect much for GW2. I really only bought the game because it was B2P and there as nothing worth a kitten on the market worth playing.
But I do agree with the sentiment of the game going from “oh snap, dragons!! lets save the world!” to “Hey, look at my neon fairy wings and ski cap. Don’t I look snazzy?!”
I still play the game because there are literally zero mmo’s worth playing, they are all carbon copies of each other. GW2 is just the prettiest one, imo. I get bored and quit then come back months later to see if anything changed. Nothing really changes, just more pretty costumes.
I really stopped caring about the game when I hit 80 and realized (I didn’t keep up with the game hype train prior to launch) that end game was just about fashion and none of the super hard legendary crap items did anything else but just sparkle.
If I put a lot of my time, effort, and money sink into achieving something in game I want it to be worth something more then a few extra particle effects.
Then it’s definitely the wrong game for you, because that’s pretty much what drew most of us here. That there would be a gear cap and your rewards would be cosmetic.
I took my like off because the facebook page moderators will delete ANY negative comment, even if it is valid and well represented.
this is pathetic but Microsoft did the same after E3 X1’s ****storm by deleting everything negative on their official youtube page but there was so much negativity from everyone that they just blocked all comments lmao. Mods deleting negative comments (this was on this forum as well but i noticed it got better, you can at least be negative/give reason why you dislike something and not be 100% moderated and message deleted) just shows how many people were disappointed with gw2 and how much it failed to deliver.
By this logic, every single MMORPG is disappointing and fails to deliver. All of them, including WoW, Rift, Lotro, because every single MMORPG’s game forums are predominantly negative.
So what you’re really saying is all MMOs suck. Because I’ve not found a single MMORPG with official forums that are predominantly positive.
If you didn’t like WoW or got tired of it, Rift isn’t going to be a game for you. It’s more standard MMO gameplay, and if that’s not you’re forte Rift won’t bring anything new to the table.
But if you do enjoy the standard you’ll be rewarded thoroughly. Tons of class options, a fair amount of diversity, and a lot of content. Macros are pretty open-ended, and while seemingly make the game ‘easier’, there isn’t ever much ‘skill’ involved to skill rotations anyways (kind of like how GW2 streamlines things with autoattacks and limited skills).
Plus the ‘rifts’ themselves are neato. Think dynamic events from GW2 but bigger in scale.
I agree with this to a point, except for the bigger scale thing. At least when I played Rift, dynamic events didn’t link to each other. Rifts were self-contained and repetitive, and zone wide events linked to nothing.
I find the scale of dynamic events, the longer chains like in Orr or Hirathi Hinterlands to be much better than anything Rift did with dynamic events.
Sadly i think we’re stuck with their mini jumping puzzles for the next couple of years until they see their fanbase significantly decrease, then an expansion will be announced and released.
Or, see the fan base increase, since mini jumping puzzles seem to be very popular. I’m seeing an increase, not a decrease in the fan base…of course, that’s just annecdotal.
What’s not anecdotal is your content doom-saying because you don’t like the game. The game isn’t going anywhere. It’ll be doing fine in a year or two as well.
Yeah. Still exploration to do. THe gold star just means you’ve found all the poi, hearts and waypoints. All the named “painted” areas still need to be found. Alllllmost got it. just one spot left in Maguuma I gotta find.
I still play lots of the stuff, Hit the chest events, do the occasional temple. NEVER pvp, I do some WvW. Don’t like any of the “legendaries” so ain’t wasting time there. Tho I hear they are makig new ones so maybe I like something from this crop. But since my tastes lean to the “understated and elegant” kinda stuff rather then the kitten waving garish manga ripoff stuff the devs drop on us like mana, I wont hold my breath (fave skins are the Norn weapons and I really like Ebonblade.) Done at least story on all the dungeons. Slowly working thru the paths, not a big crawler, but they fun nuff with guildies.
Am Master Crafter, with mats harvested myself, not TP, mostly anyway. Made lotta self crafted gear for the alts that, as I was lvling crafts, needed some inscription mats. Hard to come by em sometimes.Have a toon of every profession. 4 norn, 3 human, 1 charr. 7 @ 80. New mez just hit 50. Rib a guildie about her asura since she had me help in his story. Now I know that the steam mech invasion are “all your fault” as I keep saying. Especially when in Larson Pass and getting attacked by em. “Oh look, a steam mech just attacked me……. all your fault.”
Kinda interesting seeing the different stories.
Try the lab in the south east corner of Metrica Province. There’s an event chain you need to complete to enter it. For a lot of people, that’s the last missing area.
I think that the living story is more what replaced questing…stuff for people to do that gathers us all in the same areas. It’s an interesting strategy.
Anet mentioned this once and we never heard about it again. It’s hardly like they were pushing it. I think they wanted us to push it and that’s not likely to happen. I’m a fan of this game but I’ve already told my friends about it who I think will like it. I’m not going to nag them about it.
This leads to two main questions, in my mind, that should be answered in the interest of a fair discussion about implementing a new feature.
1. What precisely is it about open world dueling that is detrimental to immersion?
2. If the answer to the first question is that dueling is significantly detrimental to immersion in the game, how can the proposal be altered to move it into the acceptable range for breaking immersion?
I personally don’t see open world dueling as a huge detriment to immersion. There are hundreds of other features that have been implemented that I believe either share the same negatives as dueling or far exceed them. The reason for this is because there are acceptable levels of immersion breaking in a game, if what the feature has to offer isn’t significantly offset by how it ruins the atmosphere it’s worthwhile to implement. However, I obviously have a bias in this area so seeing responses from others would be worthwhile to the discussion.
There have already been many proposed ways to implement dueling, many of which are far more considerate of immersion than many I would suggest. I have played a number of games in which dueling has been a benefit to the community at large. People enjoy participating and people enjoy watching. Everyone? No, but you can’t expect any feature to have universal appeal.
One of the best aspects of dueling is that it’s a form of reusable and dynamic content that has a focus on player-player interaction. It even allows for players to create their own fun and games based upon it. You can set up any rules you want to in advance.
This leads to some incredibly fun alterations on rule-sets, whether they’re for balancing or sheer shenanigans. In fact a clan I led in Anarchy Online had the better part of a month and a half of our member’s time devoted to a dueling season. We started up brand new characters at level 1 and had a series of benchmarks where we would stop, perfect our character in their current state and then undergo a series of duels. This led to an unprecedented amount of our members playing together on a daily basis and genuinely everyone had fun with it. Friendly competition is never a bad thing, if it becomes unfriendly when brought to the community at large the suggested feature by many in this thread should suffice for ignoring it (Have duels set to auto-decline).
I didn’t tell this story entirely to brag about how awesome myself and the people I play games with are, it was only 95% of the reason, but to give an example of the kind of creative and fun content that players can make out of player-player interaction features. They are exactly the form of content that GW2 is currently lacking, and I think dueling would be a strong first step in the right direction.
EDIT
Wow, I really know how to wall of text a thread up. I honestly thought it was shorter this time…
The problem isn’t that dueling itself is going to ruin immersion…or even the immersion itself. It’s what the dueling will lead to in map chat. I like to keep my map chat on? Why? Sometimes people say something intelligent and useful (even something as simple as the Maw is Up).
Now imagine a duel, with a couple of guys, nearby. They’re talking trash, insulting each other (it happens), and in generally spamming chat with their own personal battle. Now imagine if two people are doing it.
It’s something I neither care about or need to see…and in other games with dueling I have seen it. So I don’t want it here.
If everyone who dueled had to party and they limited their dueling to in party talk, that would be fine…but that’s never going to happen, because people are inconsiderate. Some will talk smack in map chat, instead of say.
Right now, those people don’t have use reason to harrass others in map chat, but the addition of dueling is probably going to add it.
This is why I keep suggesting a dueling zone or area. So it’s separated from those people who don’t want to hear about it.
Two people fighting doesn’t break immersion. “L2P noob!” does.
I took my like off because the facebook page moderators will delete ANY negative comment, even if it is valid and well represented.
Total crap. Sorry but most of the comments on these forums are negative. How do you explain that they are still here.
In fact, I’ve had many many of my positive comments removed.
Some of the best dungeon players in the game only use double tap, they dont even have a dodge key bound. The only person who I know of, that has solo’d Lupicus on every profession uses only double tap.
Since, according to your post bellow, this was directed at me: That only means they would be even better players if they didn’t.
Again, the training wheels dilemma. Maybe someone is really, really, good at riding a bike with training wheels on. They’re still gimping themselves and their performance will only improve once they take them off.
There is no room for discussion on this one. You can be more comfortable with it, and maybe you can even be good enough , but it’s an objective and demonstrable fact that double tap is just bad for your performance.
Also: Source please.
Training wheels indeed.
In order to dodge correctly, in the first place, you need to know where you are and where your opponent is…and you don’t.
No matter how fast your connection no matter how low your ping, there is a difference between where things on on the main server and where they show on your screen. It’s never 100% accurate.
The more latency/lag you have due to either internet providers or location, the more likely it is you’re seeing something that doesn’t exist anymore. This whole I can press one key faster than two making any difference at all is mostly influenced by people with the absolutely lowest pings.
It’s no less efficient to use it with a higher ping because it all comes down to random chance anyway. It’s not a matter of skill at whether you dodge at that point, but it’s a matter of luck. The absolutely split second you’re calling training wheels changes nothing for most of the game’s population.
Rift ruined other MMOs for me. GW2 has it’s highlights and I do enjoy WvW, but overall this game is terrible.
What’s so good in Rift? legit question cuz i never tried it but keep hearing about it
The amount of choice in builds and playstyles in Rift leaves this game for dead. It’s not even close.
After the amazing success of GW1 relatively speaking, GW2 has turned out to be quite a pedestrian successor (except for the art style/direction, which are fantastic). They basically removed all the best aspects of GW1 (player choice, diverse and complex combat mechanics, skill capturing) and then copy/pasted a bunch of stuff direct from WOW (talent tree, totally pedestrian AI, gear-based progression, simplified class system) while adding some of the worst thought-out mechanics in the history of MMOs (downed state, unlimited rallying).
My experience with Rift was quite different. While there are a lot more skills, the fact that everyone pretty much macros them into a few buttons and the fact that there are good “accepted” builds that get you into groups means you have lots of options in theory but few options in reality. There are only one or two builds that allow you to get into groups.
And the gear grind, end game raid focus made Rift just another WoW clone. The forums called it WoW 2.0 while I was on them and I can see why.
If I wanted to play WoW, I’d play it.
Or, how some people can think they know so much that they can speak for the developers, and yet not be one.
see what I did there?
The annoyance cuts both ways, and both disrupt communication.
Except I’m not speaking for the developers. I’m saying what they’ve said and done. Quite a different thing. Nice try though.
It just seems like this thread is a magnet for the people who could not get into the game and who could not adapt to the innovation of Gw2. So they come here to vent. Sadly the opinion of those who are no longer playing does not matter because obviously they have moved onto better things.
However…why are they in Gw2 forums? Not all games are for everyones likes but it is pittyful to try bring down the game for people who like it because you do not like it.
Hell hath no fury like a GW1 veteran scorn. If they didn’t want GW1 vets to be upset about GW2, they shouldn’t have used the ‘Guild Wars’ name and they shouldn’t have marketed it as a sequel. ArenaNet brought this upon themselves.
Some GW 1 vets like the game though. Seems a whole lot of people running around with GWAMM titles if you ask me.
With ESO coming out, this game will become another WoW wannabe with some gear grind but no raid content (lol). Anet chose to please the PvE crowd, and they should pay for it dearly.
Some of us like this game, why do folks have to be actively malicious and want it to die?
Stop trying to mess with our fun, and go play a game that’s fun for you.
Also, to folks above, I am a guild wars 1 vet and I like guild wars 2. So do the other vets I know. A few disgruntled folks on the forums don’t speak for all GW1 vets.
I’m a GW1 vet and I absolutely loathe GW2. I loved GW2 until ‘Flame & Frost’. It’s been nothing but garbage ever since.
I’m in the opposite boat. I think the game has improved since the living story…with some qualifications.
I think there’s too much pressure to do stuff fast. I think most time needs to be left in for people to do achievements. But I like a lot of the actual content.
People who double tap dodge are the kinda baddies who QQ constantly about Thieves killing them and are horrible at Jumping Puzzles.
My dodge is on Ctrl.
Totally untrue. I use thieves to wipe my shoes on, after I’m done filleting them.
I use double tap to dodge, and never disable it. I hardly ever accidently use it in jumping puzzles…but I’m used to it from other games.
I rez people all the time. Admittedly not when I’m AFK, but when I see a downed player, even if it’s out of my way, I’ll go to help them.
I think it helps create a better game for everyone.