Guild Wars 2

Esplen.3940:

Vayne, you need to step back and read. You just argued with me for arguing for you. Your posts in this thread are degenerating in content. I hopped in to stop you both.

Sorry about that. I’m tired of some people taking a single line or in this case a single word and trying to bend it to their definition when nothing else supports it.

It’s not reasonable, and it’s not helpful to the game. It accomplishes nothing. It’s not constructive criticism…it’s just bias.

Anyway, don’t you know what happens when you stand between two people arguing? lol

Sorry, OP but I wish you’d play a lot less.

People who AFK to get achievements or dailies are a blight on the community and I wish they’d all go away. All you’ve done here is show me exactly the type of person who doesn’t like this game.

Good.

Go to any American server and guest to TC to RP.

Esplen.3940:

Erasculio.2914:

Vayne.8563:

There’s zero in that paragraph that takes about gear. You’ve simply read into it what you want.

And more and more people are seeing what Anet actually means there, which is what they said they’ve meant several times since. Why argue against something Anet has already clarified?

Really?

Ok, let’s read the clarification:

ArenaNet

Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward.

“Fun reward” = gear, for example.

Ergo, guess what Vayne? And, for the records, this has been mentioned in this topic already.

A good editor would have noticed it.

The quotes are…

It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun

and

It all gets back to our basic design philosophy. Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward. Our games are designed to be fun from moment to moment

Which are both true.

If you have fun by getting pretty gear, note that you’re having fun by getting pretty gear. If you enjoy having pretty gear, then you should work for that pretty gear. This isn’t World of Spoonfeed where if you think leveling is too slow, you can call up Support and get to max level with decent gear. This is Guild Wars 2, where aesthetics are the horizontal grind. Meaning if you want to have that look, you gotta work for that look. But it doesn’t give you an advantage over other players, so you can still play the game without that look.

tl;dr: Just because you don’t look pretty ingame doesn’t mean you can’t play the game.

Okay how does the word “reward” in this context equal gear. Let’s think about this for a second.

That’s like a three page article with the word reward mentioned once. It’s still only talking about having fun all the way through, instead of having to grind to get to fun stuff. That’s it.

Now you may think that reward means gear, but that’s a long long stretch, considering the entire segment it’s in is about combat.

If you really wanted, and you took that paragraph out of context with everything else around it, and you pretty much ignored everything else that was said, it could conceivably mean gear…but at MOST it’s only a guess.

And it’s not a very good one.

Look everyone! Anet wrote a three page article, mentioned the word reward once (proceeded by fun, I don’t think anyone things of gear as a “fun” reward), and we’ve decided arbitrarily they’re talking about gear.

That’s not even a good try.

Erasculio.2914:

Vayne.8563:

And I also added that there were TWO YEARS of extra commentary by Anet after the manifesto which you continually ignore.

And you are ignoring the comentary you are talking about yourself. The blog entry talking specifically about the Manifesto, which acts as proof that the grind described in the Manifesto isn’t level grind (which isn’t mentioned even once in the video, for the records), rather the grind to get the fun stuff, including fun rewards. Those are ArenaNet words, not mine. You can choose to ignore reality in front of your face, considering how strong your agenda about this is.

But the fact stands: as any good editor would see, the Manifesto has been proven to be a lie. ArenaNet changed their mind. What we have isn’t what we were told we would have.

Okay I went and looked at the thread you linked. Aside from the fact that it’s all pretty much STILL true, this is the ONLY line that talks about reward in the entire thing….

“It all gets back to our basic design philosophy. Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward. Our games are designed to be fun from moment to moment.”

A single paragraph taken out of an entire section about combat and making the game fun.

This actually proves what I said on two counts. First, it proves you take things completely out of context, and two, this clarification is probably more accurate in details than the video manifesto.

In other words, you haven’t done your argument any favors by posting that link. It doesn’t support anything you’ve said prior to this.

Erasculio.2914:

Vayne.8563:

And I also added that there were TWO YEARS of extra commentary by Anet after the manifesto which you continually ignore.

And you are ignoring the comentary you are talking about yourself. The blog entry talking specifically about the Manifesto, which acts as proof that the grind described in the Manifesto isn’t level grind (which isn’t mentioned even once in the video, for the records), rather the grind to get the fun stuff, including fun rewards. Those are ArenaNet words, not mine. You can choose to ignore reality in front of your face, considering how strong your agenda about this is.

But the fact stands: as any good editor would see, the Manifesto has been proven to be a lie. ArenaNet changed their mind. What we have isn’t what we were told we would have.

The manifesto is beyond your ability to understand. Even if it was incorrect (and I don’t believe that it is) the ONLY way (and it is the only way) you can claim it’s a lie if if you can prove it wasn’t the INTENT of the devs.

As pointed out about a dozen times, a manifesto is a statement of intent. So if it was intended, then it can’t be a lie. You have zero proof that what was said in the manifesto wasn’t intended, therefore you have zero proof of a lie. Simple, plain English.

And you still ignore other quotes, such as when Anet has said directly there would be things to grind for. How do you account for ignoring that?

Erasculio.2914:

Vayne.8563:

The manifesto isn’t talking about gear grind as you’ve claimed it is on numerous occasions. Now you’re just backpedaling. Credible much?

It’s hard to take seriously someone who doesn’t even read what he’s replying to.

Do you remember the argument you use the most? “ArenaNet released clarification with the Manifesto”, although you never link it?

Well, ArenaNet did release clarification. It’s a blog entry called “Guild Wars 2 Design Manifesto”, which clarifies – use your m4d 3dit0r skills here to get this – the Manifesto video.

And what does the written Manifesto say? That the game wouldn’t have grind for fun rewards. Guess what are rewards in the game? Hint: ArenaNet has just released a blog about it, and yes, it includes gear.

Really, it takes a lot of denial to not see this. The Manifesto was wrong. Even the clarification of the Manifesto was wrong.

There’s zero to link. It was posted to guru at the very least, and it was in the old blog. And I also added that there were TWO YEARS of extra commentary by Anet after the manifesto which you continually ignore. Even someone who isn’t paying that much attention probably could have figured out what the manifesto was about if they cared to look into it.

But to look at a five minute video and bring it up three years later as a lie, using out of context single lines, and a theory not supported by the manifesto seems a whole lot like an agenda to me.

There’s nothing in the manifesto that talks about gear at all. Period.

LordByron.8369:

Vayne.8563:

LordByron.8369:

Vayne.8563:

LordByron.8369:

This game is extremely unbalanced at least in PvE and WWW.

When even devs admitted it what else should we say?
but people can deny anything……

The devs have said the game is extremely unbalanced? Quote please.

sotg interviews ….
they said much stuff.

Expecially on elementalist.

But also on warrior (warrior/guard are OK everyone other should brought to their level).

After that interview we had HUGE nerfs across profession without mode distictions.
Just to make things even worse.

Was on reddit someone could still have the link

What really surprise me is that anyone doubt this game is unbalanced.

Tht is really strange considring its more than obvious.

Perhaps we have completely different definitions of what balanced means.

From a PvE perspective, I can clear any of the content I’ve tried with any profession. On some professions you can do it faster, but I’m not so sure that’s what’s talked about when people talk about balance.

People say you only need DPS in this game and nothing else. And for that type of efficiency play you’re NEVER going to get a balanced game period end of story. No game is ever going to be balanced.

To me, balance is when any profession is viable in a dungeon and they all are.

Plenty of rangers, necros and engies in my guild do dungeons and fractals and do fine. We clear content, we have fun, everyone goes home a winner.

If you’re saying that warriors do more DPS in PvE than any other profession, you’re probably right. But then Guardians bring more support to the table, mesmers bring other things to the table and with recent changes, even necros are quite powerful.

People who focus on DPS are definitely going to say that this game is imbalanced. People who don’t…not so much.

suggestion

Considering 100% of your posts (feel free to check) just defend ANYTHING of this game you end up losing lot of credibility when you go to far like this time.

All profession are viable because some can CARRY you.
Also 2 hours without EFFORT against 15 min with no room for errors is not balance.

i could go on for a lot but its not the issue.

So please sometimes even if you like a lot this game just remember that if you try to hide any of its problems…it won t improve and finally fail.

No honest player can say PvE is balanced (and maybe even WWW).
Even if some try no player that just went after character creation with a warrior and another profession will believe it.

This is an absolutely lie. Probably 80% of my posts are defending the game, and 20% of my posts don’t. Of course, if you can’t get that bit of information right, why should anyone believe the rest of your information.

So if a party if five rangers beats a dungeon, who’s carrying them?

Navzar.2938:

Vayne.8563:

LordByron.8369:

Vayne.8563:

LordByron.8369:

This game is extremely unbalanced at least in PvE and WWW.

When even devs admitted it what else should we say?
but people can deny anything……

The devs have said the game is extremely unbalanced? Quote please.

sotg interviews ….
they said much stuff.

Expecially on elementalist.

But also on warrior (warrior/guard are OK everyone other should brought to their level).

After that interview we had HUGE nerfs across profession without mode distictions.
Just to make things even worse.

Was on reddit someone could still have the link

What really surprise me is that anyone doubt this game is unbalanced.

Tht is really strange considring its more than obvious.

Perhaps we have completely different definitions of what balanced means.

From a PvE perspective, I can clear any of the content I’ve tried with any profession. On some professions you can do it faster, but I’m not so sure that’s what’s talked about when people talk about balance.

People say you only need DPS in this game and nothing else. And for that type of efficiency play you’re NEVER going to get a balanced game period end of story. No game is ever going to be balanced.

To me, balance is when any profession is viable in a dungeon and they all are.

Plenty of rangers, necros and engies in my guild do dungeons and fractals and do fine. We clear content, we have fun, everyone goes home a winner.

If you’re saying that warriors do more DPS in PvE than any other profession, you’re probably right. But then Guardians bring more support to the table, mesmers bring other things to the table and with recent changes, even necros are quite powerful.

People who focus on DPS are definitely going to say that this game is imbalanced. People who don’t…not so much.

balance=/=Can clear anything on any profession=/= viable

You could pretty much beat everything with just auto attack and dodge if you were skilled enough, but that doesn’t mean having just auto attack while others have a full bar would be balanced.

Most people see it as which profession can clear things most efficiently, or which professions will have the easiest time when you play it skillfully. Ultimately, how much is a class valued in your average pve fights and boss battles.

I try not to talk for “most people”. Seems to me most people don’t think about balance at all…and those that do aren’t necessarily agreed.

Erasculio.2914:

Vayne.8563:

The word reward isn’t used at all in there. They were talking about what you DO not what you get.

Oh, it is. You didn’t bother to read the link I posted above, or you would have seen it. That’s why your second statement is wrong – it specifically mentions not grinding for fun rewards. Guess what are rewards in GW2? Among other things, yes, gear.

What were you saying again about people taking others seriously? I would seriously suggest paying more attention to posts you are replying to.

I don’t know about you, but I’m talking about the manifesto video. I ’m sure someone can show you the post where Eric Flannum said straight out there would be stuff to grind for for those who like that play style.

The manifesto isn’t talking about gear grind as you’ve claimed it is on numerous occasions. Now you’re just backpedaling. Credible much?

rogerwilko.6895:

Crayonmuffin.1473:

I used to play MMO games all the time. WoW, Allods, RoM, Tera even. GW2 looked to be actually unique

Only at first.

It’s still unique to me. The stuff that made it unique at first hasn’t left the game.

The only reason it’s not as unique is because other games are no doing the same stuff Guild Wars 2 is doing.

I’d be bored too if it weren’t for my guild. Nothing wrong with the game it’s like that in all MMOs for me. A good guild is what makes the game for many people.

Well the wallet will be nice for sure, and hopefully the scaling back of particle effects will help too. Not sure how the rest of it will play out.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Erasculio.2914:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

That’s rather a leap that “Fun reward” must equal gear.

It’s rather blind to think that “fun reward” can not also equal gear.

I didn’t say it couldn’t, only that it’s a leap to think it MUST.

The word reward isn’t used at all in there. They were talking about what you DO not what you get.

Erasculio.2914:

Vayne.8563:

There’s zero in that paragraph that takes about gear. You’ve simply read into it what you want.

And more and more people are seeing what Anet actually means there, which is what they said they’ve meant several times since. Why argue against something Anet has already clarified?

Really?

Ok, let’s read the clarification:

ArenaNet

Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward.

“Fun reward” = gear, for example.

Ergo, guess what Vayne? And, for the records, this has been mentioned in this topic already.

A good editor would have noticed it.

Actually, most people don’t say fun=gear. Gear is an item you get. It’s not fun in and of itself. They’re talking about things you DO. You don’t do gear. At least I don’t do gear. They’re talking about combat…doing fun things in game, instead of having to grind to get to the fun things.

You can’t possibly believe that they’re talking about grinding for gear and out of every single post you’ve made about this, this is the one where most people will stop taking you seriously.

Fun things TO DO. You don’t do gear. Nice try.

The biggest thing WoW has done to hurt the industry is to convince people that better gear is required for a good RPG. The fact that so many people have bought into that illusion has destroyed the chance of any decent MMO coming out in the future.

I read Lord of the Rings a whole bunch of times. I think each person upgraded once. They still had to save Middle Earth.

When RPGs are about gear instead of story or just getting into your character, they should no longer be called RPGs.

thefounder.2074:

ParnAshwind.4823:

O.O"

Guild Wars 2 is the most grindy MMO you have ever played!? Please recommend some of the more casual ones for me.

lol everything of value in this game costs 250 of rare X, 500 of rare Y, 1 of rare Z (bought with 200 of rare A).

just because the grind is optional doesnt mean there isnt grind. And considering the entire game is a cosmetic fluff collection game, and it all costs rare items you need to GRIND events, dungeons, etc for… ya thats grind. big grind.

Answer me this.. what goals or game activities do you do that arent attached to a currency grind, hmmm?

ya, thats what I thought. nothing.

But since I’m not locked out of content by not having specific gear (with the exception of the highest level fractals),. it doesn’t matter. In other games you HAVE TO HAVE X gear to progress. Not so here.

Hell you can do all the living story stuff on a low level character. It’s just not that type of game. If you come here playing Guild Wars 2 like every other MMO, believing you need BIS gear to do stuff, it’s a grind.

If you just play and get stuff when you get it, it’s not a grind. And because the content isn’t gated by gear, the grind IS optional. You don’t have to do it to play the entire game.

LordByron.8369:

Vayne.8563:

LordByron.8369:

This game is extremely unbalanced at least in PvE and WWW.

When even devs admitted it what else should we say?
but people can deny anything……

The devs have said the game is extremely unbalanced? Quote please.

sotg interviews ….
they said much stuff.

Expecially on elementalist.

But also on warrior (warrior/guard are OK everyone other should brought to their level).

After that interview we had HUGE nerfs across profession without mode distictions.
Just to make things even worse.

Was on reddit someone could still have the link

What really surprise me is that anyone doubt this game is unbalanced.

Tht is really strange considring its more than obvious.

Perhaps we have completely different definitions of what balanced means.

From a PvE perspective, I can clear any of the content I’ve tried with any profession. On some professions you can do it faster, but I’m not so sure that’s what’s talked about when people talk about balance.

People say you only need DPS in this game and nothing else. And for that type of efficiency play you’re NEVER going to get a balanced game period end of story. No game is ever going to be balanced.

To me, balance is when any profession is viable in a dungeon and they all are.

Plenty of rangers, necros and engies in my guild do dungeons and fractals and do fine. We clear content, we have fun, everyone goes home a winner.

If you’re saying that warriors do more DPS in PvE than any other profession, you’re probably right. But then Guardians bring more support to the table, mesmers bring other things to the table and with recent changes, even necros are quite powerful.

People who focus on DPS are definitely going to say that this game is imbalanced. People who don’t…not so much.

locoman.1974:

“As a structure, the MMO has lost the ability to make the player feel like a hero. Everybody around you is doing the same thing you are doing. The boss you just killed respawns ten minutes later. It doesn’t care that I’m there.”

This one is the least succesful one for them, I think, but they’re working on it with the living story, IMHO, but it’s not easy to do on an online world where you have hunreds of thousands of people expecting to be the “one big hero”.

“You’ll get quest text that tells you ’I’m being attacked by these horrible things,’ and it’s not actually happening. In the game world, these horrible centaurs are standing around in a field, and you get a quest step that says ‘Go kill ten centaurs.’ We don’t think that’s OK. You see what’s happening. You see centaurs running to the trading post, knocking the walls down, burning and killing the merchants.”

This one they succeed so far, IMHO.

“We do not want to build the same MMO everyone else is building, and in Guild Wars 2, it’s your world. It’s your story. You affect things around you in a very permanent way.”

Some success with dynamic events, but working with the living story. In the dynamic events it works to a point, you save a village, it stays saved and people recognize you helped. Of course, it’ll probably be attacked again 10 or 15 minutes later (or much sooner in some areas), but it’s the nature of the beast, you can’t have the village saved forever in the open world or you’ll end up with a game where everything is done in a couple of days and nothing left to do for the rest of the gamers, at least in the standard themepark style MMOs, which is what GW2 is akittens core.

“Cause and effect: A single decision made by a player cascades out in a chain of events.”

Lots of events do chain depending on success or failure, sometimes it’s just a “ok, we fail, retreat” and you have to start over again, other times different events play out, this seems to be working so far for me.

“You’re meeting new people whom you will then see again. You’re rescuing a village that will stay rescued, who then remember you. The most important thing in any game should be the player. We have built a game for them.”

This is (IMHO) what the living story has been so far. Yes, I rescue a village in a dynamic events and it’ll still be rescued only for 10 or 5 minutes, but, for example, I helped Braham save cragstead some months ago, I went there today, the village is saved, everyone remember me as one who helped saving it, and I could talk to Braham there. We’ve met several characters in the living story that I’ve been meeting again (Kiel, Kasmeer, and so on).

So, IMHO, yes, some points in the manifesto were exagerated (that marketing speak for you), but personally I don’t see it as just “a bunch of lies” as some people take it, but of course, it’s my opinion and everyone has its own..

Keep in mind that after the manifesto was first released, there were some questions about it, and Anet released a statement saying that due to editing it was a bit confusing and that Ree was talking about the personal story while Colin was talking about dynamic events.

When you watch it with that in mind it actually makes more sense.

LordByron.8369:

This game is extremely unbalanced at least in PvE and WWW.

When even devs admitted it what else should we say?
but people can deny anything……

The devs have said the game is extremely unbalanced? Quote please.

DiogoSilva.7089:

To get attached to a character, I must feel the story, feel the world and feel the gameplay with some degree of intensity and investment.

It’s hard to get attached when the main story is poor and jumps from place to place, with large gaps of nothing inbetween; when exploring the world is all about filling bars or rushing to the next heart/ icon in the map; when there’s almost no adventure going on; when lore is poor and most of the new mechanics introduced are lore-less.

It doesn’t helps at all that the world is inconsistent and doesn’t feels believable. Everytime I look at the armor designs, at the inconsistency between regions, at several new features, I’m consistently reminded that a lot of stuff is very obviously done for the sake of the online shop or for the sake of trying to appeal to as many players as possible. That the entire world is a toy land, with a casino/ gambing sub-theme.

Very rarely have I felt like I was in a journey, or that there was something awesome to find. Very rarely did I find awesome lore details after exploring an old ruins, or an interesting treasure hidden at some corner, or an epic monster where I had to work hard to overcome. More rewards are crappy and/ or random, lore is lacking, champion bosses are either impossible solo or easy encoutners that take too much time for too little reward. Very rarely did I find a hidden cavern where I could say, “wow, what a discovery, I must come here again!”

Likewise, the lack of community-driven tools make this game’s community very cold. There’s almost no meaningful interaction with other players. Watching players in the map is nothing more than watching a character moving and disappearing with a name over their head, and usually dressed with something that doesn’t even fits the game.

It’s hard to feel us attached to our characters, because the game invests very little on immersion, and has too many design choices that constantly clash with whetever immersion still remains.

Tyria feels like a product more than it feels like a world. A service designed to appeal to every single taste, at the cost of consistency, at the cost of immersion.

This is one of the reasons I tend to turn off my map icons when I play the game. Then there is no running from heart to heart. After you get your world complete, if you want to feel the world, get ride of the map icons.

It makes a huge difference.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Like Vayne, I’m not ‘as’ attached to these characters as I was to their GW1 predecessors; however I am becoming more attached to some of them.

Now that I’m finding my footing in the game, and I’ve gone through and picked out armors, and dyes, and set goals, my characters feel more individualized and ‘alive’ now. It was just so darn hard to take my mesmer seriously when she started in the same skimpy armor that my ele did, they seemed so….homogonized? Like they weren’t different entities at all. I really do miss class specific armor at times, it made new characters of a different class feel different.

Anyway, now that my various characters feel like they have their own personalities (as they should), I’m getting more attached to them. I’ve already decided that the ele, necro, and mes will not be deleted…ever. Maybe a makeover kit for some tweaking, but I wont reroll them. The theif I’m still sort of meh on, and my guardian….she’s getting rerolled just as soon as I decide what to do with her. The ranger…needs a makeover. I just need to find the class/race combos that I resonate with I guess.

A lot of this has to do with having some sort of “theme” for your character. My necro as an example is hard as nails and a bit unfeeling. Power hungry too. My sylvari mesmer is almost exactly opposite. By playing characters differently, I come to understand them and like them more…but you have to put more effort in this game into doing it than say Guild Wars 1. It’s still better for me than any other MMO I’ve played though…just not as good as Guild Wars 1 for character attachment.

My wife’s main is a guardian and we have another couple of female guardians in our guild. But I think a lot of women tend to go for the “sexy” look. Of course a lot of men go for the female sexy look too.

Crayonmuffin.1473:

Does anything you do in the game affect pvp at all? Or is pvp just its own separate world basically?

There’s two types of PvP. There’s WvW which uses your PvE charater and there’s SPvP which is it’s own world.

For WvW though your health and armor are upped to 80th level you only have the skills and traits you’ve unlocked. In SPvP everything is unlocked for free for everyone. And you can play it pretty much as soon as you finish the tutorial.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Vayne.8563:

I didn’t mean a tragic character in the sense of tragedy. I mean he’s a tragic character. That is to say, his inclusion in the story is pretty much a tragedy. I was trying to be funny.

Nah. His inclusion isn’t a tragedy, because I am doing the missions with my lil sylvari elementalist and the introduction is going nicer than with Tobias. The handling of his character in the last third is the tragic part.

The very fact that most people hate him makes him a tragedy. It’s probably the voice acting, but also some of the choices of dialogue. Maybe when they thought up this won’t end well, they were being prophetic.

He’s disliked enough where it was a mistake to include him as is.

Erasculio.2914:

Viking Jorun.5413:

He was talking about combat. Learn to read/listen. Kids these days, they hear what they want.

Not really.

When he says, “We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun”, he’s not saying “we don’t want people to grind for levels, but grinding gear is ok”. He is saying that grind is bad because grind is not fun (and it isn’t). There isn’t any way to make it clearer than saying “no one finds it fun”.

By removing grind, combat isn’t just a matter of mindlessly killing a big number of enemies as quickly and as easily as possible, so it would definitely change how people see combat.

Unfortunatelly, ArenaNet changed their minds and decided to make a game filled with grind. The result is that their plan – to make a MMO for people who don’t like MMOs – failed. The GW2 community is made by the same grinders, farmers, addicts and exploiters who populate all other MMOs, and little else.

Now other people are saying things I said. There’s zero in that paragraph that takes about gear. You’ve simply read into it what you want.

And more and more people are seeing what Anet actually means there, which is what they said they’ve meant several times since. Why argue against something Anet has already clarified?

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Vayne.8563:

Trehearne is a tragic character, but not a particularly heroic one. If anything he’s an anti-hero to your hero.

Oh Vayne, it’s time for me to disagree with you. Trahearne is not a tragic character, and certainly not an anti-hero. He’s a reluctant hero, which is a very different matter. He’s not particularly tragic.

Just his voice acting is, but I’m not sure if that’s the directing or the actor’s doing. (I’m reminded of another character who always sounded flat like that, or uninterested even when delivering what should be passionate lines. Director’s fault, not the VA, but the VA got so much flak from it he decided to never work the character again.)

I didn’t mean a tragic character in the sense of tragedy. I mean he’s a tragic character. That is to say, his inclusion in the story is pretty much a tragedy. I was trying to be funny.

With dye armor, I love that however you dye your armor will apply to any armor you put on. But you can always redye it for free.

The thing to remember is that dyes do drop in game, so you’ll get more. One you unlock them on a character you can use them forever. Same for the ones you buy from the trading post or the cash shop. Any way you look at it, once a dye is unlocked you can use it forever on that character.

Also remember the same dye can look different on different materials.

Gehenna.3625:

Again kudos for completely focussing on the wrong part of my post. So I will try to simplify it for both of you since you are so stubborn to focus on side issues.

As of level 50 Trahearne is in charge and my character is not the hero. Even if he wasn’t at the final fight itself, the fight against Zhaitan is so non-epic and the instance so boring that it kills any sense of accomplishment. And on top of that the dragon was killed, not with my skills or combat prowess…no, with a stupid cannon.

Say what you will, it’s non epic, non heroic and Trahearne is the main character in the story after level 50 or whenever he comes into play.

I’m not sure why you think being in charge makes you a hero, or not being in charge doesn’t make you a hero. Frodo wasn’t in charge but he was a hero. Aragorn wasn’t particularly in charge either, but he was a hero.

There are so many examples from fiction where the true hero wasn’t the person in charge.

Trehearne is a tragic character, but not a particularly heroic one. If anything he’s an anti-hero to your hero.

Gehenna.3625:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Gehenna.3625:

Knowing that you are reduced to a sidek— as Trahearne hits the stage, therefore means that half the story is not “I am a hero” but “I was there when Trahearne saved the world”.

Sorry but they knew this and they spun it the way the needed it for sales.

I hate to break it to you but Trahearne still hasn’t saved the world, claimed credit for anything he’s not due, or even been the most awesome person in the room.

(That’s still Tybalt by the way, who sends his greetings from Southsun Cove where he is drinking from tall glasses with fruit on little sticks in them.)

Orr is . . . not even saved, but the first step is done. We don’t know how long it will take to clean it up or even what’s going to happen now that Zhaitan is finished and the Source is purified.

Now there’s still the issue of the Icebrood, the Branded, the Destroyers and their masters.

World’s not saved yet. Time to get up and get started again, work’s still calling.

Sigh, Zhaitan was killed blah blah blah. Call it what you want. The main story is over and as it stands Trahearne is the main man from the moment he comes in the story pretty much.

Please don’t focus on whether or not it meant saving the world. The hero of the story was Trahearne, not my character. My point was clearly not whether we saved the world or not but the fact that Trahearne is the main character in the second half of the story line. So please respond to that part. If it’s so important to you that the world is actually technically not saved, well fine. You win we didn’t save the world. But feel free to respond to the main point which is that Trahearne is the main character in this story and not the player’s character.

First of all, when Zhaitan is killed, it’s not the end of the story, it’s the beginning of the story. The game even says that in pretty much those words. It’s the first act of a very long play.

Secondly, Trahearne not only wasn’t the man, he wasn’t even there. I don’t know about you but the guy sitting at the desk pushing papers is not the guy who’s in the field winning battkitten th may be necessary but it doesn’t take away from anything you’ve done.

Tolmos.8395:

Vayne.8563:

You’ve lost all credibility for not being objective.

Pot, meet kettle…

In case you missed it (and clearly you did) this is precisely what the person I was responding to was saying to me. Everyone knows that I …

Well, you know…when people say stuff like that I parrot it back, pretty much always. Because I’m making an ironic point.

Sorry you missed that bit.

Balkanwarrior.5132:

Reading this thread is a goldmine. If some of you like arguing so much, why not become lawyers? Oh right. You can’t sit behind a computer and type your rebuttals in a court room

Having retired from public life, it’s probably too late for me to go to law school…however, if you’re offering to sponsor me, I might give it a go.

I think a soap opera is exactly what we’re seeing here. You can come in at any time and pretty easily pick up the story…there’s stuff to get involved with, and in two weeks there’ll be more stuff to get involved with.

This is perfectly satisfying for some people and not so satisfying for other people. That’s really the long and short of it.

Smith.1826:

Vayne.8563:

It’s not a massive force by the time you get to it. It’s a weakened force. We have zero evidence that Zhaitan was so powerful except in its ability to raise the dead, which we took from it.

It doesn’t mean he had to be a pushover. There was a LOT of build up in the story that all pointed to Zhaitan. He’s not just the epilogue to the dungeon, he’s the final boss of the entire personal story. So when the fight in question is one of the most uninvolving, debatably ‘unheroic’ fights in the game, I don’t think it’s unfair for people to be disappointed.

Look I’m not saying anyone shouldn’t be disappointed. I’m saying I wasn’t personally disappointed. You could hardly stop anyone from feeling about something the way they feel.

But I was looking at the entire thing as one piece. I’m an older gamer. I don’t think in terms of boss fights.

I agree they could have give players more to do, but you know, it’s a long dungeon. Just getting there was annoying enough.

Still, it would have been better to have a more hands on attack on Zhaitan, for those who are disappointed.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Vayne.8563:

People wanted it to be a boss fight. they call it a boss fight…but it’s really not. You never really directly fight Zhaitan.

That’s where the issue comes in.

Yeah, it’s a problem, but there’s something sillier to witness. This massive force of destruction so powerful it can threaten the world time and time again, so powerful it simply had to be outlasted until it went to sleep before? And one to five mortals with no assistance from anything at all take it down.

I think that would be mocked a lot more than “Press 2 to win”.

I can see it now: “Big, deadly, god-killing dragon . . . goes down from a engineer autoattack.”

It’s not a massive force by the time you get to it. It’s a weakened force. We have zero evidence that Zhaitan was so powerful except in its ability to raise the dead, which we took from it.

In my book, the fight with Zhaitan was only meant to be the epilogue of the entire battle. We fought a starving, blinded, weakened boss.

Just remember hearts are not the main way to earn XP. They’re minor. Dynamic events are a much better way to earn XP. The hearts are only supposed to keep you in the areas where DEs spawn and DEs are repeatable. Hearts are not.

Galtrix.7369:

Vayne.8563:

bri.2359:

Vayne.8563:

I’ve never seen this level of content from any MMO before. Are there a couple of bugs? Sure. But early bugs were certainly worse than later ones, showing improvement. I haven’t really found many bugs at all in the newest content.

At any rate, I’ll applaud anything that I’m enjoying…why shouldn’t I?

I guess you were too busy applauding to notice Anet had to do 4 ‘fixes’ to the current content: 2 on 23 July (same day as content release), 1 on 24 July ,1 on 26 July.
This tells me the content was not properly tested before release,

Vayne, I doubt you wouldn’t notice a bug if it bit you on your kitten .

I’ve reported many bugs. I’ve beta and even alpha tested games. You don’t know anything about me, and what you’ve assumed is very likely untrue.

Vayne, everyone in this forum knows your reputation for ignoring the bad things about this game. Bugs is one of those things. I remember a post I brought up stating that there were way too many bugs in each new patch and that it needed to be fixed within a decent amount of time, or at least tested beforehand.

What you probably don’t realize is that you defended the bugs in this game by trying to tell me my post was wrong. I said that there were at least twice as many bugs in GW2 as in other mmos and you tried to bash me when I said that. I’ve played mmos for my entire life, and I think I know when there are bugs that are preventing me from enjoying the game.

No offense, but you lost all credibility you had when you defended Anet’s mediocre job at testing the new patches or at least fixing them in a decent amount of time. We still have bugs from the early stages of the game that should’ve been fixed months ago, so no, it is not “showing improvement”. Even the new patches are glitchy, laggy, and sometimes just plain don’t work. Sanctum Sprint stopped working for me after the 50th run of it. It just stopped giving me rewards and stopped telling me I got in first place.

Early bugs are certainly not worse than later bugs. That’s for sure. I spent 100 gold on a scepter only to not get either the gold or the scepter. I contacted Anet and they said that nothing could be done, so I lost my money and my scepter. You really believe that’s not a bad bug?

There are not “a couple of bugs”. There have to be billions of bugs in this game that Anet just doesn’t want to test for or fix. A public test server would easily fix some of those bugs.

You’ve lost all credibility for not being objective.

I’ve said, and said all along, this game has released early. You want to see bugs. Try Warhammer or AoC at launch. The only gets that launched with less bugs launched with smaller worlds, like Rift, which launched with a ridiculously tiny world and a very small amount of content. 11 small zones, instead of 25 large ones, 500 quests instead of 1500 dynamic events. Edit: And Rift STILL had a major security bug at launch that costs 10’s of thousands of people their accounts, due to hacking.

You really think Warhammer, AoC and even SWToR didn’t have bugs out the kitten Well I guess you’ve lost all credibility.

And if you played WoW at launch, a game that was down completely almost as often as it was up, you’d have known better.

Have you tried Vanguard. That game was buggier than hell.

How about Skyrim (or any Bethesda game). Those aren’t even MMOs. Have you ever looked at the buglists?

We all know this game launched early. We know this because of the number of bugs. We also know that MMOs are most expensive games to produce and take the longest time. Do you know WHY so many MMOs launch with bugs. Because financially they can’t afford another year in development. It really is that simple.

I never defended bugs…I’ve only defended realistic expectations.

Navzar.2938:

Vayne.8563:

Hell Avenger.7021:

I killed Zhaitan… wait, I still dont know what happened. It just seem that it shows up and died on the mountain without me doing anything.

You should have followed the story better. You’d already by that time blinded and starved him, as well as crippling his ability to make more undead. Also the weapon used to take him down was developed by an Asuran who gets saved in the Asuran story line who you actually meet if you play that storyline. It uses special anti-dragon energy to bring him down.

So by the time you take him down, you’ve already done the damage. The boss fight starts at around level 70 and continues until the end of Arah.

That doesn’t mean he should just sit on a pillar and doing nothing for the fight… At that point we may as well have not even fought him and let him starve to death.

I’m the guy that killed the big frog in a test simulation for Moto.

Did you really just cite the super adventure box as heroly? XD

You’re still singling out one fight from an entire dungeon and calling it a boss fight. It’s not a boss fight. It’s the epilog of the dungeon.

People wanted it to be a boss fight. they call it a boss fight…but it’s really not. You never really directly fight Zhaitan.

That’s where the issue comes in.

I think boss fights are, over all, silly and I can’t stand any of them really. I dont’ like them in dungeons. I don’t like them in the world. I’d rather fight a war against a ton of opponents like most of the events in Hirathi than fight something like Jormag. The war feels more epic to me.

I’m not nearly as attached to these characters as I was to my Guild Wars 1 characters. However, I’m far more attached to these characters that I have been to my characters in any other MMO.

The reason why I felt attached in Guild Wars 1, I think, is because my characters were going through a story and they weren’t really interchangable. Most title tracks had to worked on individually. This character had this much rep with Sunspears or Ebon Vanguard or whatever. This character was a survivor.

Also, the personal story is Guild Wars 2, just because of the nature of the game, can’t be as involving as missions in Guild Wars 1.

Take the way that missions worked. You’d do a mission and the entire area around that mission was all about what you were doing. If you were in the early part of Prophecies, your missions was about fighting charr and the entire game around you was about fighting charr.

Here, it’s very different. You have five different starting areas and you can go to any of them, then pop back and do a bit of personal story. It feels more like a game than a contiguous experience.

The price you pay for having the greater attachment to characters is the limits on your flexibility. You can jump to Lion’s Arch and any other starting area right away when you play Guild Wars 2. Try that in Guild Wars 1, when you want to get together with a friend who’s starting a character in a different game. If you start in Factions and he starts in Prophecies, you have to wait till you’re at KC or he’s at LA before you can meet up.

I’d rather have the flexibility but I can’t deny that something does get lost in the translation.

You can get scraps or you can get a ticket instead of scraps. I’m not sure people realize this.

My wife got a key drop. An actual drop. She opened one chest. She got a ticket.

Grounds for divorce? lol

I’ve been working on the shatterer achievment for months. I’ve never gotten credit for a single crystal and I’ve broken many of them. I never see anyone trapped in a crystal but I break them anyway. No credit.

kishter.9578:

ArchonWing.9480:

I don’t really have much of a problem for that. In fact, I would be quite desensitized if a new earth shattering threat comes every 2 weeks. A story needs to have ups and downs— trying to have constant climaxes doesn’t really work.

In fact, the worst kind of storytelling involves constantly arriving, stronger threats. The reason this is true is because it trivializes the threats that were taken down, just like how you can never view level 5 centaurs as a threat anymore.

And thus, the world isn’t one of just constant combat. People need to celebrate every now and then, after all, otherwise they’d go insane from the stress. I suppose they could make a storyline about fallen heroes gone insane due to inability to make a living, but hey…

We have Halloween, Christmas, Dragon year, whit that is enough. More Pew Pew contents is what we want.

No. More pew pew content is what YOU want. Some people want more mini-games (if you can believe it).

Dragonar.1342:

Vayne.8563:

Dragonar.1342:

Yeah, but atm every dungeon is “easy” to do with 5 berserker warriors.
Shouldn’t that be some kind of alert that boss damage output is too low?
Btw, i dont ask for more 1-shot attacks, but for an higher total amount of damage output.

Don’t do them with five berserker warriors…probably solved. If you’re not having fun, change what you’re doing.

By changing it so five berserker warriors have more trouble you’re screwing everyone who doesn’t use five berserker warriors. The game can’t reasonably be balanced arount this.

Ehh i dont understand your comment..
Your saying that when i dont do it with 5 berserker warriors it’s fun? Normally i play support ele so..

2nd part: You say that when making it harder for full berserker parties, i am screwing it for everyone who does not use five berserker warriors? Do i understand that you want it all easy? (if not, sorry)

Nope, I don’t want it all easy. I just almost never run a dungeon with a warrior at all. Very few people in my guild play warriors. If we do have a warrior, it’s just one.

My concern is that if Anet makes it harder for the most efficient party, they’re making it a lot harder for everyone else. The dungeons shouldn’t be balanced around those warriors.

But something should be done to make those types of parties less effective.3

Maybe we don’t know where they are. We knew where Zhaitan was. The others may be more elusive…we see only their minions.

milo.6942:

if cc and support were viable it’d be a lot more fun

This I agree with. However, we use CC and support in my guild all the time and we still clear content. We play the way we want, because it is fun. Playing five zerker warriors isn’t fun to us, so we don’t do it.

Does it take us longer to complete dungeons. You bet.

But since we’re having fun in dungeons and beating them, it doesn’t much matter to us.

milo.6942:

Vayne.8563:

milo.6942:

Vayne.8563:

The fact that protection was more important than healing in Guild Wars 1. That’s not true for most games, but it’s true here.

I have no idea what you’re talking about. Protection prayers was an attribute line with 38 skills from a super important profession that was deleted. Now we have a single “protection” boon which, while powerful, is not “more important” than healing in gw2.

Vayne.8563:

In Guild Wars 1 every single profession had a self-heal and that’s certainly an odd thing in many games. Even the idea that content isn’t gated by gear is something from Guild Wars 1. And Guild Wars 1 had dungeons that had story mode and explorable mode (such as Bloodstone Caves and Oola’s Lab). In other words, the first time you enter the dungeon is during the story and then you can return to see what happened after.

You’re running out of ideas mate.

If we made a comparison of all the defining features of gw1 vs gw2 how many do you suppose gw2 adopted? Almost none.

Protection meaning damage mitigation as opposed to healing. It’s far more important than this game than most games.

And I’m not “running out of ideas”. You don’t like the game that’s fine…but you can’t tell others what to feel any more than I can.

I play this game very much like I played Guild Wars 1…but do you know why this game is the TRUE spiritual successor to Guild Wars 1?

Because Guild Wars 1 didn’t do what everyone else was doing…it went it’s own way and Anet is doing the exact same thing with Guild Wars 2.

So many WoW people tried Guild Wars 1 and didn’t like it, because it wasn’t WoW. So many Guild Wars 1 players try Guild Wars 2 and don’t like it because it’s not Guild Wars 1.

Anet innovated…which is what they do. That’s what I’d expect from them. Clearly you expected Guild Wars 1.5.

We were discussing gw1 vs gw2. If you want to discuss gw2 vs other mmos, you should be clear about it. Don’t switch between these 2 frames of reference like they were the same thing to support your arguments.
Protection was an integral part of gw1 (especially pvp) combat. Here it has been reduced to a boon that some classes can have access to.
For the overwhelming majority of gw1 players I’ve talked to, gw2 is not a “guild wars” game. It doesn’t feel anything like what we expected. Everyone’s obviously entitled to their own opinions, but I think even objectively comparing gw1 vs gw2 vs rest of mmo genre, we can conclude that gw2 is closer to other mmos than it is to its predecessor. If this is a positive or negative thing is up to each player.

I used the word protection, because I type fast…and what I meant was damage mitigation. There are many ways to mitigate damage in Guild Wars 2, not the least of which is the dodge roll. So yeah, change protection to damage mitigation and my sentence was correct. Sorry for using the wrong word.

The overwhelming majority of Guild Wars players don’t talk to you or me. They just play the game or don’t. I see a whole lot of people with GWAMM titles running around. I can only assume they played Guild Wars 1 for a while.

Dragonar.1342:

Yeah, but atm every dungeon is “easy” to do with 5 berserker warriors.
Shouldn’t that be some kind of alert that boss damage output is too low?
Btw, i dont ask for more 1-shot attacks, but for an higher total amount of damage output.

Don’t do them with five berserker warriors…probably solved. If you’re not having fun, change what you’re doing.

By changing it so five berserker warriors have more trouble you’re screwing everyone who doesn’t use five berserker warriors. The game can’t reasonably be balanced arount this.

Hell Avenger.7021:

I killed Zhaitan… wait, I still dont know what happened. It just seem that it shows up and died on the mountain without me doing anything.

You should have followed the story better. You’d already by that time blinded and starved him, as well as crippling his ability to make more undead. Also the weapon used to take him down was developed by an Asuran who gets saved in the Asuran story line who you actually meet if you play that storyline. It uses special anti-dragon energy to bring him down.

So by the time you take him down, you’ve already done the damage. The boss fight starts at around level 70 and continues until the end of Arah.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I am one of many that has stood strong against the darkness, knowing that had I stood alone I’d have perished….

I am fearless in my pursuit of cleaning the undead out of what once was a beautiful land…

I am the helping hand that jumps in, heedless of my own safety, to help those I care about or those simply in need….

I am mortal in my need to sometimes step back and take a break from my efforts, chilling out with humorous things like local festivals and obscure tasks….

I have grown in strength and cunning in my travels, made friends and even a few enemies…

I am simply ‘me.’

Great post. I love this.

I’m not a big fan of having to remember to mine and charge crystals every day either. It’s one more busy task I don’t really want or need.