Guild Wars 2

milo.6942:

Vayne.8563:

The fact that protection was more important than healing in Guild Wars 1. That’s not true for most games, but it’s true here.

I have no idea what you’re talking about. Protection prayers was an attribute line with 38 skills from a super important profession that was deleted. Now we have a single “protection” boon which, while powerful, is not “more important” than healing in gw2.

Vayne.8563:

In Guild Wars 1 every single profession had a self-heal and that’s certainly an odd thing in many games. Even the idea that content isn’t gated by gear is something from Guild Wars 1. And Guild Wars 1 had dungeons that had story mode and explorable mode (such as Bloodstone Caves and Oola’s Lab). In other words, the first time you enter the dungeon is during the story and then you can return to see what happened after.

You’re running out of ideas mate.

If we made a comparison of all the defining features of gw1 vs gw2 how many do you suppose gw2 adopted? Almost none.

Protection meaning damage mitigation as opposed to healing. It’s far more important than this game than most games.

And I’m not “running out of ideas”. You don’t like the game that’s fine…but you can’t tell others what to feel any more than I can.

I play this game very much like I played Guild Wars 1…but do you know why this game is the TRUE spiritual successor to Guild Wars 1?

Because Guild Wars 1 didn’t do what everyone else was doing…it went it’s own way and Anet is doing the exact same thing with Guild Wars 2.

So many WoW people tried Guild Wars 1 and didn’t like it, because it wasn’t WoW. So many Guild Wars 1 players try Guild Wars 2 and don’t like it because it’s not Guild Wars 1.

Anet innovated…which is what they do. That’s what I’d expect from them. Clearly you expected Guild Wars 1.5.

Zoid.2568:

The “titles” you get when you join one of the three orders you don’t actually get to use them. Would be nice if you could.
SPOILER POSSIBLE
When you join Durmand Priory you become a Magister, but you don’t get the title so you can’t actually use it.

This is a good point. I totally think these should be something you could wear. It would help build the bond between you and the choices you made for your character.

Enundr.9305:

ok the basic point of this post , would be …… what happened with the other dragons? weve encountered frostbrood everywhere where snow has touched down , yet theyve been silent , weve seen destroyers around….branded…..surely the elder dragons arent gonna care to sit back and watch us party? it doesnt make sense to have all this going on this long and no signs of the other elder dragons and their minions anywhere! sure we had the flame legion , dredge , aetherblades , but at most those are rogue groups / bandits , aka lesser threats. the dragons are still out there , so are their minions…..we should stop partying and start preparing for the impending attacks from the elder dragons still out there……Primordus , Jormag , Kralkatorrik , and then the mysterious elder dragon unnamed in the depths of the ocean……

We knew where Zhaitan was, presumably we don’t know exactly where the other ones are. I’m assuming people are out looking for them and when we find them we can move against them. In the mean time, we still have other issues to deal with…or do you think we should let the sky pirates get away with their plot? lol

Gandarel.5091:

Totally agree. GW2 manifesto promised they will take everything, which is ofc cannot be true. But they too konly 4 things: name of the game, skill names, base lore (names, places) and the players. – almost everyx single GW1 Pvp player left after 2 weeks.

They told us they develop Pvp from the beginning – if 3 maps and 1 gamemode took 4-5 years, there’s no hope.

They told they need to make GW2 because GW1 engine if overdue and limited. Yet, if you ask them where’s the observer mode for top rated tournaments, they will tell that’s not possible due to engine limitations. While GW1 had it.

First of all not every Guild Wars 1 PvPer has left….but I agree many have. I’m not particularly surprised by this, since the game has a PvE focus, much like Guild Wars 1 did in the end.

But there are many things this game has that Guild Wars 1 also had…things you’re ignoring.

The way loot drops work in this game is the same as Guild Wars 1 and it’s completely different from the way most MMOs work. The idea that Guild Wars 1 had no taunt mechanic…most MMOs do. The fact that protection was more important than healing in Guild Wars 1. That’s not true for most games, but it’s true here. In Guild Wars 1 every single profession had a self-heal and that’s certainly an odd thing in many games. Even the idea that content isn’t gated by gear is something from Guild Wars 1. And Guild Wars 1 had dungeons that had story mode and explorable mode (such as Bloodstone Caves and Oola’s Lab). In other words, the first time you enter the dungeon is during the story and then you can return to see what happened after.

You even have a character like Traherne, who’s not all that far off Komir. lol

There’s plenty of stuff from Guild Wars 1 here…but unfortunately most of that doesn’t affect SPvP much.

Seems like most of the things you see as a negative, I see as a positive…and that’s okay. The only thing I disagree with is that you have to spend real money to play this game. For one thing people can farm gold and spend no money but more importantly there’s nothing in the cash shop I really need. Even if I did want to buy some characters slot, back or bank space…a pay to play MMO would cost me $120 a year….and most of them still have cash shops.

As for the rest of your review, it does sound like this isn’t the right game for you. Because the stuff you don’t like is the very stuff I’ve been waiting for.

Prior to this, I’d yet to find an MMO I could stomach for more than a few months.

Dante.1508:

Agreed this world seems to revolve around “Lions arch latest festival” while the rest just sits there stagnant and dead pardon the pun..

How many back items can one account need!, how many achievements do people want?, how about we actually get some PvE balance and some meaningful content.

You keep using this word “meaningful” content. You mean an instant dungeon that’s challenging? Because that’s not meaningful content to me.

Maybe the existing content is meaningful to some people and just not to you.

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

Mike O’Brien isn’t a mind reader.

That’s just an assumption. You don’t know that for a fact. He might be reading your mind this very moment!

Not true. I’m wearing my tinfoil hat, which blocks his meager attempts at mind reading (and protects me from the alien radiation).

Yaki.9563:

Vayne.8563:

Yaki.9563:

Vayne.8563:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Time will tell. Note that this is an industry peer recognition, not some rabid Fan vote.

http://www.gdconlineawards.com/archive/halloffame.html

LMAO at peer recognition. One MMO stays around for a long time, due to a combination of lauching at the right time, and having a gazillion dollars to advertise, following some very successful franchises and so the industry has recognized it.

If another game had some out instead of WoW and WoW came out in this environment, it would never have gotten off the ground, particularly with how buggy it was at launch.

Saying a ten year old MMO that made a lot of money got an award from industry peers is all very nice…but time will NOT tell. Because at the time WoW launched there were like 4 MMOs, most of which were piddling and underfunded. WoW was in the right place at the right time.

Now, with a hundred MMOs out, how is any one MMO going to find that same niche?

Ignorance this bad has to be willful.

WoW single handedly grew the MMO market to what it is now. Something that no other game could do. Not even with franchises like Star Wars and LotR to back them (released around the same time). There are 100’s of MMO’s out because of WoW, not in spite of it. WoW drew in millions of players who would, and still don’t, play any other MMO. I know adults who have never played another computer game except WoW. I know (a lot of) kids who wouldn’t touch an MMO with a 10 ft. pole who play WoW. In fact I haven’t met a single person in real life who plays an MMO other than WoW.

And somehow, nearly 10 years later, with these 100’s of other MMO’s you think that WoW still has 5 to 100 times the sub/players only because it was in the right place at the right time? Laughable.

This isn’t ignorance. This is someone who predated WoW as a gamer and doesn’t LIKE the direction WoW took the MMO genre. I think the MMO genre will need a decade to heal from what WoW (and WoW clones) have done to it.

There’s no ignorance here, just a different point of view. You know, Big Brother has more viewers than WoW has players, but I don’t necessarily like the direction reality TV is going either. Popularity doesn’t guarantee quality.

In my mind, by focusing on the MMO aspect and ignoring the RPG aspect of the genre, WoW has set this industry back a long, long way. By making the game about loot and progression, this is the real bug bear this industry has to deal with.

WoW as indeed an addictive game, but even people I know who played it said they were bored with it all the time, but kept going back to it.

No, I’m not ignorant about this. I feel that if WoW hadn’t become popular this genre might be okay today. As it is, I think it mostly sucks horribly.

Your two posts seem to be about two completely different things. In the first, you claim WoW is successful by mere coincidence. In the 2nd you ignore my rebuttal and just say how you hate WoW.

Maybe MMO’s might be better without WoW, but the market would be much, much, much smaller. Orders of magnitude smaller. GW2 would have had less funding and sold 300k copies if WoW had never come along. Sure, it would be a different game and maybe one that you’d like better, but I doubt that ANet would be happier.

Grind-games still exist. They fail (by today’s standards) but you can find them and still play them if you want. You’ll deal with lower budgets, less customer service, less updates, probably even more money-grabbing, etc. but you can’t get your nostalgia for free. The days of 50k sub MMO’s being among the biggest and best are long gone.

We have no idea if the market would be much smaller, because no game since Blizzard got in with their gazillion dollar advertising campaigns had a real chance. Everyone that could have been a contender had to launch early for financial reasons, even Guild Wars 2. This game is only now starting to become what it should…and it’s still got a ways to go.

Having deep pockets is what propelled Blizzard to its current heights. Money makes money.

I’m not saying it’s a bad game…I’m saying it’s success has doomed the industry to WoW and a whole bunch of little WoWs. So if you like WoW…fine. If you don’t like WoW, you’re completely screwed. I believe that WoW is bad enough for enough people, that it prevented people who might have played MMOs from coming into the market. It found an audience, but locked out an audience I believe is bigger.

Now MMOs have such a bad name with so many people, it’s an uphill battle for ALL new MMOs.

That’s how I see it.

Yaki.9563:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

The interesting thing about MMOs are that they are in direct competition with themselves. In regular gaming, there isn’t anything wrong with owning Battlefield and Call of Duty at the same time. But MMOs have three issues that cause them to be exclusive to each other.

Because of this, eventually one MMO was going to become dominant. The market itself encourages zerg balling.

Yes, there was a dominant MMO (or two). And it had 250,000-500,000 subs. Then WoW showed up and nearly overnight it doubled, tripled, and eventually had 20 times the players of those MMOs. Those WoW players didn’t come from other MMOs. They can from everywhere, even from complete non-gamers. This is something that is almost exclusively true about WoW, not other MMOs. Every other MMO scavenges their subs/players from other MMOs, including WoW.

Many people play Guild Wars 2 that have never played an MMO before and some play Guild Wars 2 having never played a computer game before. I know some of them.

No telling what will happen in the future, but this game has made an impact on the landscape. Possibly the biggest since WoW.

Yaki.9563:

Vayne.8563:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Time will tell. Note that this is an industry peer recognition, not some rabid Fan vote.

http://www.gdconlineawards.com/archive/halloffame.html

LMAO at peer recognition. One MMO stays around for a long time, due to a combination of lauching at the right time, and having a gazillion dollars to advertise, following some very successful franchises and so the industry has recognized it.

If another game had some out instead of WoW and WoW came out in this environment, it would never have gotten off the ground, particularly with how buggy it was at launch.

Saying a ten year old MMO that made a lot of money got an award from industry peers is all very nice…but time will NOT tell. Because at the time WoW launched there were like 4 MMOs, most of which were piddling and underfunded. WoW was in the right place at the right time.

Now, with a hundred MMOs out, how is any one MMO going to find that same niche?

Ignorance this bad has to be willful.

WoW single handedly grew the MMO market to what it is now. Something that no other game could do. Not even with franchises like Star Wars and LotR to back them (released around the same time). There are 100’s of MMO’s out because of WoW, not in spite of it. WoW drew in millions of players who would, and still don’t, play any other MMO. I know adults who have never played another computer game except WoW. I know (a lot of) kids who wouldn’t touch an MMO with a 10 ft. pole who play WoW. In fact I haven’t met a single person in real life who plays an MMO other than WoW.

And somehow, nearly 10 years later, with these 100’s of other MMO’s you think that WoW still has 5 to 100 times the sub/players only because it was in the right place at the right time? Laughable.

This isn’t ignorance. This is someone who predated WoW as a gamer and doesn’t LIKE the direction WoW took the MMO genre. I think the MMO genre will need a decade to heal from what WoW (and WoW clones) have done to it.

There’s no ignorance here, just a different point of view. You know, Big Brother has more viewers than WoW has players, but I don’t necessarily like the direction reality TV is going either. Popularity doesn’t guarantee quality.

In my mind, by focusing on the MMO aspect and ignoring the RPG aspect of the genre, WoW has set this industry back a long, long way. By making the game about loot and progression, this is the real bug bear this industry has to deal with.

WoW as indeed an addictive game, but even people I know who played it said they were bored with it all the time, but kept going back to it.

No, I’m not ignorant about this. I feel that if WoW hadn’t become popular this genre might be okay today. As it is, I think it mostly sucks horribly.

StinVec.3621:

Vayne.8563:

StinVec.3621:

GrandmaFunk.3052:

when everyone feels like a hero every day, then no one is truly a hero.

I don’t care what everyone else feels like when they play, I play to change how I feel.
…
I don’t care what others have achieved, I play for the things I achieve.
…
I don’t care what skins everyone else is wearing, how common the new shiny is or how 1337 their gear/appearance is, I care about how my characters look while I’m out mowing down bad guys with my new shiny. If someone else (or everyone else) has that same shiny, good for them.
…
I don’t care what roles other people have played in this ongoing story, I care about how I am part of this evolving world and what my role is, has been, and will be. So far my role in the changing of this world hasn’t been all that impressive or grand (to me).
…
If I wanted someone else taking credit for something I did then I’d stay in the real world instead of escaping to this fantasy game where I could be recognized, cheered and rewarded for my actions.
…
There is far too much real world making its way into this fantasy game.

So I am left being just a random dude roaming the countryside in an attempt to escape game content that seems no different from the real world content that I play the game to escape.

I am Random Guy…I’ll be in the woods if you need me.

Yep, I don’t care what anyone else feels either. I feel like a hero.

Wish you were here.

Hi Vayne

I’m not saying I’ve never felt like a hero while playing GW2, just that in relation to the Personal Story and Living Story, I’m not all that impressed with them in terms of being Player-centric. I like some of the group dynamics to where I am a cog in a big machine and all that, but the Living Story should have been “Cog” material, Personal Story should have been all about us and our journey to becoming the hero (hence, “personal”)…instead of being somewhat of a smalltime hero up to level 30ish and then all of our history, our decisions, our friends, our growth as a character…they no longer mattered after that. I feel we were reduced to the level of nothing more than a random henchman from GW1…someone to function only as an aide to the real hero.

So, I’ve long since focused only on the content that I really enjoy (primarily roaming countrysides and wandering through the woods) and completely ignore all the different Personal Storylines since I know where they all go after level 30 and it’s not fun to me.

I don’t know I have another view completely about this. I like Skyrim but found I couldn’t play it as long as I’d like because one character can be the guy who saves the world and the head of the thieves guild, the assassins guild, the magic guild, the companions….it just doesn’t make sense to me. Any one of those things should preclude others.

There’s such a thing as being “too much” the hero. Let’s harken back to something like Lord of the Rings, which is the grand daddy of all this. Was there are fellowship. or was there not? Was the battle of helm’s deep won by Aragorn soloing the orc army?

When I play games like this, I want to feel like I’m a hero, but I also want to feel like I’m part of something bigger. I get that in Guild Wars 2 (and never really did from Skyrim).

I feel like a hero because it was me who helped solve the sky pirate murder mystery. It was me and some allies who took down the Molten Facility.

As for the current “election”, my support doesn’t mean more than anyone else’s, nor should it. I’m just one guy and this issue should be bigger than one guy.

I’ve often identified myself as a writer on these forums. There are a few things I really dislike about the fantasy genre as it stands and when I write, I try to avoid those “pitfalls”. For example, I dislike the fact that every fantasy novel seems to be against some evil entity that’s going to destroy or take over the world. I don’t even like evil for the sake of evil. I prefer “evil” characters to think they’re justified and have decent motivation. In this, Guild Wars 2 fails my test of good fiction. Why the hell does Zhaitan care about us at all, or want us all dead?

But I don’t want to feel like a 24/7 hero. I want to do heroic things while at the same time being part of something larger.

The OP has a valid point. Instant ownership is just terrible. In dungeons, I don’t like it because you see someone else in cut scenes (which when doing your personal story and Arah is a real slap in the face).

At other times, the instance owner can be kicked or even leave without thinking and everyone gets kicked.

Surely there must be a way for an instance to get started and then if the instance leader leaves, have an option for someone else to become the instance owner…of nothing else.

The OP has a valid complaint.

I have a legendary…so no it doesn’t impress me. I’m not uber so why should anyone else with a legendary be? lol

StinVec.3621:

GrandmaFunk.3052:

when everyone feels like a hero every day, then no one is truly a hero.

I don’t care what everyone else feels like when they play, I play to change how I feel.
…
I don’t care what others have achieved, I play for the things I achieve.
…
I don’t care what skins everyone else is wearing, how common the new shiny is or how 1337 their gear/appearance is, I care about how my characters look while I’m out mowing down bad guys with my new shiny. If someone else (or everyone else) has that same shiny, good for them.
…
I don’t care what roles other people have played in this ongoing story, I care about how I am part of this evolving world and what my role is, has been, and will be. So far my role in the changing of this world hasn’t been all that impressive or grand (to me).
…
If I wanted someone else taking credit for something I did then I’d stay in the real world instead of escaping to this fantasy game where I could be recognized, cheered and rewarded for my actions.
…
There is far too much real world making its way into this fantasy game.

So I am left being just a random dude roaming the countryside in an attempt to escape game content that seems no different from the real world content that I play the game to escape.

I am Random Guy…I’ll be in the woods if you need me.

Yep, I don’t care what anyone else feels either. I feel like a hero.

Wish you were here.

tom.7468:

The combat in this game is so deep that you could almost solo the entire game by using nothing else than auto attack.
This is nothing like gw1 there you actually had to use you’re brain it seems like games have to be so casual and easy these days.

Right it’s nothing like Guild Wars 1…once you unlock the skills for your heroes (which you can buy unlock skill packs in the cash shop for), you can look up team builds on PVX Wiki (or wherever), and then pretty much sleep at your keyboard while your heroes do all the work.

You can solo farm the Underworld as a Rit? You can solo farm outside Bergen Hot Springs with your 55 Monk.

Guild Wars 1 did have depth, but it wasn’t any harder to success particularly in the open world. You had to play the hard mode elite content to have to even open your eyes.

I could solo any dungeon in the game in hard mode with my heroes and AFK through most of it….my heroes are good enough to play the game without me.

I suck at PvP and I kill thieves quite frequently.

I don’t think they ban accounts via IP. It doesn’t make sense. I don’t see how that can get confused.

Probably because you bought the same one as the first one and they both say unique. You might want to fill out a service ticket for that, if that’s what happened. That’s why they offer the same stats with both offensive and defensive slots.

Alternately you can upgrade one to true ascended through the mystic forge and wear both when that’s done.

Kurakura.7281:

In GW2 you are a nobody. You DO NOT matter!

Speak for yourself. You may be nobody and not matter. Me…I matter. Just depends on your perspective.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Vayne.8563:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Time will tell. Note that this is an industry peer recognition, not some rabid Fan vote.

http://www.gdconlineawards.com/archive/halloffame.html

LMAO at peer recognition. One MMO stays around for a long time, due to a combination of lauching at the right time, and having a gazillion dollars to advertise, following some very successful franchises and so the industry has recognized it.

If another game had some out instead of WoW and WoW came out in this environment, it would never have gotten off the ground, particularly with how buggy it was at launch.

Saying a ten year old MMO that made a lot of money got an award from industry peers is all very nice…but time will NOT tell. Because at the time WoW launched there were like 4 MMOs, most of which were piddling and underfunded. WoW was in the right place at the right time.

Now, with a hundred MMOs out, how is any one MMO going to find that same niche?

So, recognition by industry peers in 2010, 11, and 12 is invalid. But frothy fan opinion from a former print editor is irrefutable?

And still, Hall of Fame does not mean “best”, the individual consumer defines that.

But, Ok Vayne. Hilarious. Didn’t even scroll the page, did you? Didn’t know UO and EQ had those “vast advertising budgets”. How are we talking about WOW exclusively when the link shows 3 games?

Whatever, carry on. Crusaders have to Crusade. I’m sad for you, really.

One question though. In your “humble” opinion, is there anyone in the world qualified to have an opinion on MMOs, besides yourself? Im beginning to wonder.

Nope, my opinion means nothing either. But to hold this industry acknowledgment thing up as an icon to anything….in my industries, industry peer awards are political as hell…re academy awards.

Sure it means “something”, but it’s not so cut and dried as oh this won an award so it’s a good game. I’m relatively sure more people hate WoW than like it. What does that mean? Nothing at all.

But you know…I don’t really think any award means much of anything. Hudson Hawk was an utterly brilliant movie that made the worst movie of all times list for many professional reviewers. What does it mean?

Nothing. Nothing at all.

If more people loved Keg Brawl you’d probably have a point, but any game designer has limited hours to do stuff and keg brawl is not going to be one of their priorities. Particularly because part of what makes it broken in the way the game is designed itself. The ability to lob the way people do pretty much destroys the integrity of the game anyway.

Yeah, I get you like it, but you’re in a relatively small minority. If it weren’t for achievements and dailies, keg brawl, mostly likely, would have died long ago.

Nuka Cola.8520:

Morrigan.2809:

We had all that for a year.
We fought undead from one zone to another, we killed Zaitan.
Surely when you win the battle you celebrate?
Or at least have time to elect a new official in of your main cities (as result of a murder I might add)

Oh and don’t forget about the invasion by those nefarious dredge and flame legion- that was hardly a party.
Then as disaster relief the Consortium stepped up and tried to enslave the refugees of a warzone.

A disturbed already somewhat shady Sylvari tried to remedy this- but it was only through the clever plot of a Lion Guard – that by the way is now running for election- that the refugees were freed to pursue their own goals and rebuild their lives.

Alll parties…

“killed Zaitan” rofl more like spammed one attack from cannons for 10 minutes and watched a cutscene where he dies… so much for “killing”. Agree with tc, enough with this casual theme, its all we’re getting for the passed many many months

You mean after blinding Zhaitan, starving and destroying it’s ability to make more minions, we used a laser which Asura helped to develop in game to best that dragon. Sure, that’s what I experienced.|

Maybe you just want another boss fight. I don’t.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Time will tell. Note that this is an industry peer recognition, not some rabid Fan vote.

http://www.gdconlineawards.com/archive/halloffame.html

LMAO at peer recognition. One MMO stays around for a long time, due to a combination of lauching at the right time, and having a gazillion dollars to advertise, following some very successful franchises and so the industry has recognized it.

If another game had some out instead of WoW and WoW came out in this environment, it would never have gotten off the ground, particularly with how buggy it was at launch.

Saying a ten year old MMO that made a lot of money got an award from industry peers is all very nice…but time will NOT tell. Because at the time WoW launched there were like 4 MMOs, most of which were piddling and underfunded. WoW was in the right place at the right time.

Now, with a hundred MMOs out, how is any one MMO going to find that same niche?

The problem is in WoW you needed BIS gear to do content and in Guild Wars 2 you do not. You can get all the way to a level 20 fractal without needing AR at all if you’re good. And by then you’d have rings and a back piece which you get from doing fractals, so you don’t need an amulet.

That’s assuming you need/want to do the highest level fractals which only a relatively small percentage of players do and people who do are generally grinders anyway.

This is compared to WoW when you were literally locked out of content if you didn’t keep doing those runs each and every week. For example, someone in my guild took a month and a half to get their ascended amulet, took two months off and came back and could play with us again. All the same dungeons. WvW. SPvP.

Try that in WoW. Take six months off, come back and see if you don’t have to play catch up.

Serelisk.6573:

I’m still pretty kitten ed they’d really just throw keg brawl in a lineup with all the other other activities that are going to be cycled out of the game. :/ They were supposed to have 30 permanent activities at launch. I don’t understand why they feel no need to explain to anyone of reasoning behind what they’re doing. This is absolutely stupid, and they’re really taking away all the things I like about this game.

The way keg brawl is right now…it sucks anyway. Half the time people aren’t even playing it. If they’re not throwing the ball over the fence to work on their achievements, then they’re in there just trying to get the daily by cooperating with the other team.

At off hours, on days when it’s not the daily, I hardly ever get a full group playing keg brawl. While you may like it, not enough people are going to play it as more and more mini games come out.

GrandmaFunk.3052:

when everyone feels like a hero every day, then no one is truly a hero.

True words.

Galtrix.7369:

Burnfall.9573:

Vayne.8563:

I don’t know. I’ve been a hero. Last month I solved a murder mystery while fighting off sky pirates.

Oh, you mean you’re not a hero today.

Seems to me that even in Guild Wars 1, after you finished the content, you weren’t a hero either. Take Nightfall. Komir becomes a God and you’ve one. It’s over. Much like this story.

Except Trahearne actually doesn’t take credit for slaying Zhaitan in fact, he wasn’t even there. He says at the end he wishes he was and how you’re a hero and how you’ve earned a break.

I’m not sure what kind of games that you guys are playing where you’re a hero every day 24/7.

Since that time we’ve fought off the Karka invasion, we’ve stopped the dredge and flame legion from cementing an alliance…oh right.

Maybe you guys aren’t paying attention.

Rght On

So all things I do on a daily basis in WoW, except on a much smaller scale? Okay In WoW, you actually make a difference. You’re on a major boss fight and your tank disconnects, oh man, this isn’t Guild Wars 2 and we can’t replace him with a random nobody that has no idea what they’re doing. We need an experienced tank that has done this multiple times. Maybe he’ll even give us some insight as to how we can better defeat the boss.

Everybody counts in a raid/dungeon/event in WoW. You lose one player and you lose a valuable role.

Guild Wars 2 mentality: Group member disconnects “Replace him with anyone, it doesn’t matter who we pick.”

At Jormag: “Oh, a player disconnected? Big whoop, he wasn’t valuable.”

I definitely don’t feel like a hero at all when I can be replaced by someone who has no clue as to what they’re doing.

And to answer you, I suppose that most people feel that they’re solving petty crimes that don’t matter at all in the big picture. Oh my gosh, an entire ship full of sky pirates is about to attack an entire freaking city. Whatever are we going to do when they land? Oh, let’s just get 1,000 people from the city and beat them into submission. You see, it doesn’t feel as epic as an “entire fleet of enemy ships with the intent to take over Lions Arch and all major cities all over Tyria.”

When people play other games, the above event is what they experience. An entire fleet of enemies coming at them and hopeless odds that they could never deal with, but find a way to overcome. Then they come to Guild Wars 2 and a single ship is flying at them. Big deal, my Night Elf Druid in WoW could take on 10 of those ships with a taco in his hand.

The point this is that you should feel like a hero every day. You deserve to with all the quests you complete. Instead, you feel like a common peasant most days and then rise to the high ranking status of a peasant warrior every two weeks.

I don’t know I remember running a whole lot of bullkitten quests in WoW. And in a five man party in WoW, the healer has a role, the tank has a role and 3/5 of the people are replacable canon fodder than no one cares about. 3/5s of your party are meaningless.

When I play Guild Wars 2 with a guild, we know who the good guys in the guild are. We know who is more of a team player and helps keep people alive. It’s not as obvious, but one of my guildies plays an ele and when he’s in the party, we know he’s popping heals, removing conditions, rezzing and generally helping out…the difference is it’s not limited to two guys.

I can go rez someone, I can heal, remove conditions, or generally help anyone WHILE DPSing. This is something that some people can’t seem to get their head around.

If all you do is pug and you think that’s the game, then that’s your game…it’s sure not mine.

And in WoW, I didn’t feel like a hero, because there was no immediacy to anything I did. No real reaction. I sat and used the same skills in the same order to maximize my damage. My son used to tank while eating dinner and playing another game on his phone at the same time.

If you think the Claw of Jormag is what Guild Wars 2 is about, I don’t really know what to say to you.

Justdeifyme.9387:

Vayne.8563:

As for Lotro, it’s a pretty decent MMO…but it has major flaws as well. Not the least of it is the pay to win aspect. Or pay to unlock this content, pay to unlock that content. You know I’d love to do that area with you, but I haven’t bought it yet.

For a free to play game, that’s one expensive game.

Well LotrO is a fest for Lord of the Ring Fanboys like me, I have some experiences with this game that still melt my heart. But that’s not enough to be blind for what a great game gw2 is.

When Lotro launched, it was an amazing game. When Turbine took over and it went free to play…not so much.

The problem is Lord of the Rings isn’t the game. You love the franchise. But that has nothing to do with Lotro as an MMO. Answer me honestly…if that game had characters and places you didn’t know from Tolkien and it was just an MMO, but with halflings instead of hobbits, generic elves and dwarves…no Rivendale, no Shire, no Mines of Moria…would it still be a great MMO?

Nightarch.2943:

Wildstar, Elder-Scrolls online, Rift, Lord of the Rings online, & Pathfinder Online. Why don’t I play them? Rift has rendering issues with drawing objects, Lotro has very outdated character models, and the other three are still in development.

Listing MMOs that aren’t out is silly. You don’t know how they’ll actually play on release. You don’t know what they’ll be like six months after release.

As for Lotro, it’s a pretty decent MMO…but it has major flaws as well. Not the least of it is the pay to win aspect. Or pay to unlock this content, pay to unlock that content. You know I’d love to do that area with you, but I haven’t bought it yet.

For a free to play game, that’s one expensive game.

Actually, you can’t say the game has dropped in popularity…because people can guest. There’s plenty of people…what they’re not necessarily doing is roaming around the world.

See Anet keeps introducing this free content every two weeks. Most people have explored most of the world already but this new content comes with achievements which are time sensitive.

If you stay with the new content, then you see lots and lots of people. If you wander randomly around the world, you need to guest to busier servers, because most people are divided between PvP (which has become a bit more popular than it was), WvW, dungeons, fractals and of course all the new content.

There’s plenty of people playing.

I don’t know. I’ve been a hero. Last month I solved a murder mystery while fighting off sky pirates.

Oh, you mean you’re not a hero today.

Seems to me that even in Guild Wars 1, after you finished the content, you weren’t a hero either. Take Nightfall. Komir becomes a God and you’ve one. It’s over. Much like this story.

Except Trahearne actually doesn’t take credit for slaying Zhaitan in fact, he wasn’t even there. He says at the end he wishes he was and how you’re a hero and how you’ve earned a break.

I’m not sure what kind of games that you guys are playing where you’re a hero every day 24/7.

Since that time we’ve fought off the Karka invasion, we’ve stopped the dredge and flame legion from cementing an alliance…oh right.

Maybe you guys aren’t paying attention.

I think it’s problematical to look at complete updates. For example, I don’t love the Aspect Arena, but I do love the survival game. I really enjoyed Crab Toss, but the mini instance with the sylvari guy and the traps…I could have lived without that quite easily.

So far the Survival game, Dragon Ball, any and all of the jumping puzzles and the Sanctum Sprint has been my favorite of the updates.

SoLeciTO.3490:

Algreg.3629:

SoLeciTO.3490:

Again there is not yet a valid argument to not have a duel system.

actually, this thread is full of them, you just refuse to recognize any.

I will make you a list of the arguments you mention:

1.- I dont want a guy asking to duel while iam doing my archives

• Answer: Auto decline duel function.

2.- I dont want to listen a guy calling me a coward because i decline a duel.
*Answer: Block messages from him. there is a lot of trash talk already, even in WvW with dances and laughing animations.

3.- There is no balance for 1v1 dueling.
*Answer: The game right know is well balanced (is not suppous never to be a balance between 1v1, it depends of the profession and the build to counter).

Also it is just a duel, you will not lose anything!! is just to have fun and test build with ur friend and guild members.

4.- There will be QQ in the forum for the balance in dueling.
*Answer: there is already a lot of QQ nerf this nerf that post. It is a duel again, if you accpet to duel is because you want, and dont care if you lose.

All of this arguments has no base and are incredible selfish.

Again being an objective person . . . . give a a real reason we dont have a duel system like almost every good MMO in the market.

You’re not being objective…you’re being subjective. Even just the comment add dueling like all good MMOs, what if people like me don’t like MMOs at all, and what if dueling is part of what we don’t like about those MMOs. And what if the reason we don’t like dueling is because it’s inviting people to misbehave.

You don’t give ammunition to certain types of people and expect them not to use it. I admit my opinion on this is entirely subjective.

Yours is too.

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

Those who make outlines before hand and stick to them, like Piers Anthony probably don’t fall into this trap as much but those who write by the seat of their pants, like Stephen King, probably aren’t always aware of what’s behind what they write.

/e opinion

Piers Anthony has an annoying tendency to blow the endings of his stories. As of the conclusion of The Dark Tower series, the same can be said of Stephen King. That wonderful gem of an ending cast a retroactive pall over everything he ever wrote.

Except for The Body and Rita Hayworth and the Shawshank Redemption. Maybe It.

City of Heroes had ‘guest authors’ creating missions in Mission Architect. What kind of story missions, do you suppose, would Anthony or King write for GW2? Provided such a thing was possible, of course. Anthony’s humor would probably lend itself well to GW2.

I’ve actually had a correspondence with Piers Anthony…he’s an interesting guy. He read one of my novels and commented on it for me. It was pretty cool. I was very new back then and new pretty much nothing. It showed. lol

I think Anthony would have created something not so different from some of the mini-games we see today. Look at the Apprentice-Adept series. It reminds me a bit of some of what Guild Wars 2 is today.

I know a whole lot less about Stephen King, though I did read his book about writing, and I’ve read The Stand as well, and a bunch of his short stories. Somehow I think he’d take Guild Wars 2 a bit into the macabre.

Amadan.9451:

but still i think he knows better what he wanted to say…
maybe he can’t analyze with clarity how he says it!

The problem is, that’s not necessarily the case. Depending on your writing style, you can be saying a whole host of things you had no intention of saying and wouldn’t even know was there until someone else pointed it out.

Those who make outlines before hand and stick to them, like Piers Anthony probably don’t fall into this trap as much but those who write by the seat of their pants, like Stephen King, probably aren’t always aware of what’s behind what they write.

I’m not sure if Asimov used outlines or not.

Amadan.9451:

and i believe that student saying that to isaac asimov was not smart but arrogant

I’m not sure any writer is really qualified to analyze his/her own writing. I know I can’t analyze my own writing…not with the same clarity that others can. I’m willing to wager that same is true of most authors.

bri.2359:

Vayne.8563:

I’ve never seen this level of content from any MMO before. Are there a couple of bugs? Sure. But early bugs were certainly worse than later ones, showing improvement. I haven’t really found many bugs at all in the newest content.

At any rate, I’ll applaud anything that I’m enjoying…why shouldn’t I?

I guess you were too busy applauding to notice Anet had to do 4 ‘fixes’ to the current content: 2 on 23 July (same day as content release), 1 on 24 July ,1 on 26 July.
This tells me the content was not properly tested before release,

Vayne, I doubt you wouldn’t notice a bug if it bit you on your kitten .

I’ve reported many bugs. I’ve beta and even alpha tested games. You don’t know anything about me, and what you’ve assumed is very likely untrue.

Tolmos.8395:

All this talk about “Even though the devs said this one thing in the manifesto, they actually meant this other thing! So ignore what they said and what it sounds like they meant- just believe what I’m telling you it meant!” reminded me of a rather popular story about the author Isaac Asimov.

Isaac Asimov was at NYU visiting a friend one day when he chanced upon a
lecture hall in which a graduate student was offering a master’s
discussion of Foundation.

Isaac slipped into the back of the hall and listened. At the end of the
lecture he moved to the front of the hall and told the young man, “I
believe you have a couple of things wrong.”

The kid looks at Isaac and asks, “And you are?”

“I’m Isaac Asimov,” the author of the piece under discussion replied.

The kid turns away saying, “You’re the last person qualified to give
commentary upon your work, Mr. Asimov. Good day.”

Actually the devs said literally what they meant in the manifesto. Word for word, it was literally true…the question that comes up is what is meant by “grind”. The word is used by Anet to mean something. Some people want to super-impose their own definition on it…but that definition isnt’ supported by anything else said in the manifesto.

People want to believe what they want to believe but the actual language is quite clear.

HawkMeister.4758:

Vayne.8563:

At any rate, I’ll applaud anything that I’m enjoying…why shouldn’t I?

Actually have you stopped applauding anything ANet has done in the last 9 months?
Sorry to drag it down to a personnel level again, but by now this has almost become your main reputation on these fora.
Maybe you should rethink your position, as even ANet´s main devlopers are admitting to misjudging past decisions.

Anet current MO is simply to copy the Asian Themepark-MMOs way of bi-/tri-weekly content upgrades.
They claim they have enough teams to still work on the core game.

The next 6 months will show how this pans out.
But if we all just follow your lead and clap constantly so that the fora stay nice and cumbayaaah, then it won´t help ANet one bit either.

I could care less about my reputation on these forums…obviously. I respect those who respect me and I don’t give a toss about those who don’t. That’s been the story of my life. 30-40 percent of people I deal with like me and a bunch of people really really don’t. So? Who cares?

If you can’t find anything that I’ve said that’s negative, you haven’t looked. If you do look and find something that I’ve said that’s negative, are you going to stop thinking I’m a fan boy? I seriously doubt it.

When something that I feel is wrong is mentioned, I say so. But I’m enjoying myself so I’m happy.

You have something against happy?

LordByron.8369:

Vayne.8563:

LordByron.8369:

I already said…
Make a poll of an 1% of players.

The result is possibly not fault proof but its an indicator.

If the result is like 90% or more agreeing on sn option.

he number was too high in fact the thread was deleted.

The final point is:
Give some reasons to discredit some statystical evidence. (that was the biggest thread this forum ever seen).

P.S: this is why i used the word “normal” and i said my english skill could just distort the meaning.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_distribution

Except that you’re falling into one of the big pitfalls of this argument. If 80% of the people who come to the forums come to complain (which seems to be the case in most games), the the forum population is not representative of people playing the game. It’s the same in every game I’ve ever played. The forum population, on the whole, is less supportive of the game than people who don’t post.

In the end, people do come here to complain so they’re not “normal”. They’re the exception. So what you’re saying is most of the exception is normal, but that’s just not logical.

Actually you are still undervaluing everyone else without anything to support your theory

Just to prove how you are wrong.

How often do you read/hear the sentence “oh people are so dumb”.
Considering most people says that you should understand where the problem is.

Forum is for feedback.
Most people that care for the gae enough to give feedback come on the forum.

Saying people on the forum are complainers just shows rudeness and disrespect.
And this is another point against your argument.

Being rude doesn’t necessarily make you wrong, but calling negativity negativity is merely an observation anyway. There’s no value judgement attached to that. My son is a pessimist. That’s an observation, not a judgment, and therefore not rude. If people take offense that being called a pessimist, that’s pretty much on them.

What I said was people come to forums TO complain, that doesn’t mean they’re complainers. That’s a big difference.

If you put a card on a table at a restaurant that allows comment on the staff, people with complaints will fill out the card about 80% of the time and people who have a compliment will fill it out 20%, despite the fact that most service is adequate or better.

There’s no real impetus for people to come to the forums to say they’re having fun in game. There is an impetus for people to come to the forum to complain about the game. This information isn’t new or something that I just pulled out of the air. It’s been known and discussed for a long long time. Over there years there have been survey’s about it. Feel free to research if you wish.

I’m saying that the majority of people who are enjoying the game don’t come to the forums, because having to view/respond to a lot of complaints (often complaints they feel are baseless) causes them stress or ruins their enjoyment. I’m different because I don’t mind debate…but most people won’t stick their necks out. That’s just human nature.

bri.2359:

Morrigan.2809:

Their focus on LS now is providing new content on a regular basis while updating the core game- this improves the game for people who just play and it provides a constant stream of content to players who go through content fast.
All this with only cosmetic additions.
I applaud this.

This where we disagree …
Throwing out a constant stream of new temporary content for the sake of new content, is imo, poor game design and vision.

Also, the overall quality of this content is highly questionable. I don’t like JP’s and dislike pvp mini-games even more, so never do them. Much of the LS content has little or no interest to me.

Furthermore, this content is often buggy, requiring 3 or 4 ‘fixes’ immediately after that tells me it is not properly tested before release. These ‘bugs’ find ways to effect core game content as well, so are not just limited to the temporary content. I have a vision of the Anet LS factory assembly line pushing product out and onto our computers, ready or not…

If you ‘applaud’ this, then what can I say? Ii is certainly not the way I thought the game would evolve. Oh, and I never heard of the manifesto before I bought the game, so had no expectations on that account.

I stopped recommending this game to friends 6 months ago when I saw nothing being done to address all the outstanding game balance issues. The Feb patch was more of a game breaker for me that the Nov one. The LS has just make things worse for me and is not the way I want to receive my gaming experience.

I have 1 month left of home ISP before I move countries. I will be without an ISP for at least 1-2 months until I get set-up in the UK. Unless Anet has a drastic re-think regarding the game direction, and pulls a rabbit out over balance issues during the next 2-3 months, I very much doubt I will be returning to GW2.

So you don’t like the content. I do like the content. Not all of it, but more than enough of it. For example, I really like the racing game and the survival game. It’s okay if you don’t. That’s fine. But that doesn’t make it bad content and it doesn’t mean those who like it shouldn’t applaud.

I’ve never seen this level of content from any MMO before. Are there a couple of bugs? Sure. But early bugs were certainly worse than later ones, showing improvement. I haven’t really found many bugs at all in the newest content.

At any rate, I’ll applaud anything that I’m enjoying…why shouldn’t I?

Nuka Cola.8520:

I don’t think anyone on this thread mention it ‘yet’ but its always funny when you ask what kind of end game gw2 has and some1 answers “legendary weapons” lmao. Crafting a skin is end game, you know the game has none when end game is supposed to be crafting a weapon.

It’s especially funny when people like you keep making comments about end game in a game that wasn’t designed to have an “end game” in the traditional sense of the word. It’s like you’re in another world, listening to other stuff, and not paying attention at all.

There’s no ultra challenging content for huge groups to do in this game, with the possible exception of WvW and maybe some guild missions.

It’s just not the game you want…and that’s okay. There are plenty of other games out there that are.

Daecollo.9578:

Linnael.1069:

Blargh. I’m done pretending you guys have legitimate arguments.

This is the bottom line:
Dueling is a playstyle currently entirely absent from the game. There is no way you can play against anybody on your server with the PvE build you’ve invested in. WvW doesn’t let you play against your pals or in cool locations. Custom arenas don’t provide the kind of build customization that open world does.

Running around the world immersively is not going to become absent from the game if dueling is added. The community is not going to fill up with trashbums. You aren’t going to lose the ability to block annoying people in map chat. You won’t be spammed with invites every 3 seconds or whispered by every guy out there. People are not going to decide that locations with lots of other people are suddenly great places to 1v1.

As for those of you complaining about effect spam? Your opinion is miniscule. Yup. If you can’t deal with 2 guys throwing things at each other behind whatever panel you’re staring at, you can turn off sound. And if you’re bothered by the visual presence of people casting things, too bad. Your activities won’t disappear. Being slightly annoyed some of the time while doing the activity you enjoy is not worth the complete lack of an activity that others enjoy

Quoted for Absolute Truth.

How can you quote an opinion as truth? lol

Smith.1826:

Vayne.8563:

Guild Wars 1 had heroes. Guild Wars 2 does not and that changes the equation complete. I could solo Sorrow’s Furnace. I couldn’t solo MF.

That’s why I mentioned scaling, not in relation to scaling the players’ level, but the size and difficulty of events based on the amount of players. It’s very feasible to see this apply to dungeons as well.

The one thing that could be tricky would be allocating rewards based on that playersize, but I’m sure something could be arranged. Personally, I don’t care what would drop as like as it’s fun and challenging to play.

Vayne.8563:

More to the point, I couldn’t solo Sanctum Sprint or Crab Toss either…and that’s all content that people want left in the game too.

How many mini games can a game support?

Like I said, it’s not about just making all the temporary content we’ve had suddenly become permanent – maybe I was vague, but I don’t recall specifically supporting that – it’s about encouraging emphasis on developing content that can remain permanent.

Which Colin said they’d be doing more and more of in the future. I still think leaving too much permanent content behind that’s not soloable will be a problem.

I think each dungeon should be assessed for its difficulty, and tokens should be rewarded based on how hard it is.

Consequently, there could be a reward structure where the least done dungeons give the highest rewards.

I think Nuka Cola has a point. I don’t think adding more trait points is the way to accomplish it.

This game needs to have more build variety…particularly for certain professions. They’re done a pretty good job with say Guardians, because there are several good viable builds. Nuka wants more viable builds. I think Anet could accomplish this without raising trait points.

They would have to rework the least used traits into something useful though.

And of course it doesn’t help that some players are min/maxing and only want THE most efficient build. That play style certain comes with its own limitations.

There should be a dedicated mini slot on your hero panels somewhere. That would solve some problems at least. Then you could equip a minipet.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

If I intepret something the only way in can be interpreted in English (and I’ve gone back to several editors on this now to double check the meaning), and someone else says, no that’s not what it means…I’ll stick the the editor’s view of the definition.

There’s an assumption in that logic. That is, that the speaker, since this quote was from a video transcript, was using correct English. If you listen to any of the ANet video interviews, it quickly becomes apparent that ANet staff are not professional communicators. Maybe the grind references are as you say, or maybe the speaker was not being perfectly clear. Only one person knows the intent, and that person isn’t telling.

It’s true that standing alone, this would mean what it mean, but it was discussed several times by devs after the manifesto shipped. Colin used the Shadow Behemoth as a direct example of what he was talking about. So he did say. I’m simply saying he said.

Edit: I’m also saying the entire topic is completely irrelevant if people can’t agree on the definitions of what was meant. Apparently the English isn’t good enough, so we have to theorize, except so much of this stuff was discussed at the time…when the manifesto was new. It wasn’t just discussed a little, it was discussed to death. And everyone sort of knew what was meant then.

Now, in retrospect, people bring it up and try to say that Anet has changed direction…and whether that’s true or not, nothing in the manifesto is proof of that. If you want to say the game started off one way and changed, you don’t need to quote and misinterpret the manifesto.

It’s not a good idea. There’s no real reason to do this. I can’t remember an MMORPG ever doing this in the past.

unseenone.1463:

I agree especially with the part about being a “hero”. The events happen so often, and are so farmed, that accomplishing one really has no rewarding feel. The same goes with fighting veterans or champions. My brother and I can 2 man a champion….and we get almost nothing for the effort, the most rewarding part is simply that we were able to do it.

The rewards in the game require a serious rework and have for some time. Anet is aware of this and they’re going to rework those rewards.

But there’s also a danger here. Much like the meta event rewards, which guaranteed a gold….once those rewards came online, meta events were more or less destroyed. Getting a bigger reward for them didn’t make me feel more heroic. All it did was trivialize most metas.

I’m not sure I have a solution to the problem but just upping the rewards so everyone does champs suddenly isn’t going to accomplish that kind of feeling.