Guild Wars 2

Dante.1508:

darkace.8925:

mekkanic.4759:

Its not really a matter of cost…its just unnecessary.

Gold sinks are absolutely, positively necessary.

Why?

So the trading post might go down or up? i’d have been fine with zero trading post as per GW1.

Even in Guild Wars 1 there were gold sinks. Identify kits, salvage kits, for some people con sets…there were plenty of things in Guild Wars 1 that took gold out of the economy. And the economy did suffer at times as well.

Do you know why Guild Wars 1 lost so many players? Because starting that game after the fact became really really hard. Everyone had a zillion gold and could charge anything they wanted for anything. New people could never hope to catch up. That’s why karma was such a good idea. You can get a lot of stuff for karma, without having to spend gold.

Those who played Guild Wars 1 for a long time don’t realize how hard it was to break into coming late to the party.

SadieDeAtreia.8912:

lol clay…

You state a less popular opinion on ‘their forums’ and the burden of proof is upon you and you alone to justify your claims. Even if there is no definitive answer and everyone needs to rely on speculation (like in this case with the server capacity vs active player base), they will not admit that their arguments are just as much ‘opinion-based’ and speculative as yours.

So the server capacity has been increased? Ah, OK, so I’ll just blindly believe this to be true then. I mean, they haven’t lied to us before, right?

Right?

See what I did there? Haha, we can speculate for days on who’s right and why but, the simple fact is, nobody but Arenanet knows what the state of the game really is and what the actual numbers really look like.

See, when people have said straight out that they were looking at the server capacity and all of them jumped from very high to medium on the same say…you can ignore those people or call them liars, but at least there’s some evidence what Anet said was true.

Not to mention several posts saying I just got this game, even on other forums, probably from the weekend sale.

See, there is evidence Anet isn’t lying to us, but you just don’t want to look at that evidence. People actually saw the world status change all at once. Are they liars too?

SadieDeAtreia.8912:

Vayne.8563:

The problem is, when you guys attack me personally because you don’t like my opinion. I’m not ENCOURAGED to have a conversation with you.

I’ll let others decide whether or not I’m just a man of opinions or if I have facts to back them up. I know I have a few detractors on these forums, but as many detractors as I have, I’ve gotten personal messages from far more people who like what I have to say.

Maybe try seeing things from the other person’s point of view before posting? It’s generally a good way to gain perspective on some of the different and maybe less popular ideas out there and might give you a glimpse of what’s outside the box.

Agreed, it is not your (or anyone else’s) job to educate fellow forum users but, if someone has a strong opinion on a given subject and that opinion differs from yours the easiest way to conclude an argument is to provide enough evidence for your case. By evidence I refer to official developer/industry expert statements – relevant to the topic being discussed. Excuses like “I can’t be bothered looking for the link” (edit: from discussions I’ve had with you in the past) will severely undermine your future credibility and just opens the door to condescending replies or personal attacks.

I have plenty of evidence to back up what I say. By some people that evidence is ignored. Simply put, I can fight fire with fire.

Half my case, though is built on long term observation. Whether you like it or not, experience matters. If I say that other games have had imbalances over the years, and I’ve played a dozen games, I don’t have to go to every game site and every forum and point out exactly where or what those imbalances are. Want to know why?

Because anyone who’s played those games knows it’s the truth. And I’m not trying to convince a handful of naysayers that games like Guild Wars 1 had major imbalanced over the years. It really is common knowledge.

If I decided to say the Earth wasn’t flat, I wouldn’t put in a reference either.

Voltron.1043:

As many stated before. It was fun, I was hooked, after 6 monts there was nothing to do. All dungeons were piece of cake, all char had thier gear and all I got was to get Legendary. But game is so unrewarding that I burnt out. I think this is what mostly got me- unrewarding system, too much RNG, too much gold sinks, and always feeling poor even after 1k hours of playing and mastering every content. I feel poor enough in RL, so when I feel always poor and urewarded in game taht suppose to be fun outside the RL and reward me for skills and dedication and playing (not for TP wall street), I just burn out and move on.

@Vayne- I am sorry, but I read forum just to see what is going on, and in every thread when there is even one thing against GW2 you jump in and make this thread an Holy War. You just cant stand any critic and just shut up and deal with diffrent opinions. You are trying almost maniacal and obssesive to prove everyone that they are wrong. You have more post than anyone on any “Put your opinion on GW2” therad on this forum. Like some fanatic who is jumping from one person to another in all threads and trying with loooong posts to always prove he is right, all with diffrent opinions are wrong. And your talks about opinions and facts.. man- this is hypocrisy. It is not personal, it is just how you look for averge forum reader who is not taking part in your “flaming passion discussions”.

I think you should drop forum, start to take some walks, and get other interests then Gw2, maybe read some books. Just chill out man, really. It is not crusade. I think you are too obsesive and there are other things in world then GW2, much better.

You haven’t read enough of the forums if you haven’t seen me criticize the game. I have. What I won’t have is people spouting nonsense with NOTHING to back it up. People who say the game is dying or losing population…totally ridiculous. There are enough people playing (and paying) to keep the game going a long time. I know it because I see what I see. It’ll never have ten million players, but it’ll have more than enough to keep going. Those who think other wise can get back to me in a couple of years.

The point is, I do speak out about stuff. And I don’t answer every thread where someone has a legit complaint. What I do answer is people who insist in exaagerating or using hyperbole to try to prove a point. People who make stuff up…well, I’m perfectly happy to talk to them.

There are issues with this game, I never said otherwise. But that doesn’t mean Anet lied to people with the manifesto. It doesn’t mean that the game population is going down. It means it’s a new MMO.

And if you don’t like my posts, feel free not to read them.

killcannon.2576:

I really think Vayne and Clay need their own forum section. Then Anet could box it and sell it.

Didn’t they already make a tv series about it…it was called the Odd Couple. lol

gkrit.9416:

Vayne.8563:

gkrit.9416:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I’ve repeated a lot about what I felt about the Manifesto: it was a goal, an ideal to strive for. This is what they want to do when they make a game, as best as they can. They missed. That doesn’t make it a lie, and people repeatedly trying to take single sentences out of context annoy me more than the people labeling it as “one great marketing lie”. (Half right, it was a marketing ploy.)

This is pretty funny.

But what exactly has been taken out of context in this situation?

The sentence most taken out of context is the one about grind. It’s clear from the context exactly what Colin is talking about and people try to use it to say that Anet said there would be on grind in this game. Not quite what was said in the manifesto however.

anywayz .. all good.

This game just didnt hook me like the first one did.. my loss i guess.

The first game was great. In fact, we’re having a guild event now every week in Guild Wars 1, going back and helping people who haven’t seen it, see the law and get some HoM points. It’s pretty cool.

They really are very different games. And I like them both.

Wetpaw.3487:

Hickeroar.9734:

Scrambles.2604:

Hickeroar.9734:

Scrambles.2604:

Hickeroar.9734:

I think ANet did a good job of balancing gold’s actual value in the game. You can shell out a ton of money and buy a completed legendary, sure. But what does that gain you? You get no in-game advantage by doing this…

If you want to CRAFT a legendary, you can buy your way about halfway there, and then you’re required to do a LOT of in-game stuff to complete it. You can’t buy your way to a crafted legendary.

Also, those people shelling out lots of money are keeping the game running, while people who aren’t shelling out any money are basically getting a free ride. Sounds a whole lot like America to me…

free ride? I paid $60 for this game. That’s hardly free.

The people shelling out money are getting the content they are paying for. I paid my share and i get the content i paid for, which doesn’t include backpacks, molten picks, etc.

Yes, and I paid overall a couple hundred on WoW and expansion packs…and then had to pay a subscription fee. So what? The fee keeps the game going. The gem store keeps the game going.

Buying the game is nothing more than paying for the 5 years of development that it took to make the game in the first place.

Sure the gem store does provide regular income for Anet, but this was all determined by budget projections based on 1). cost of running business. 2). predictive analysis of how much the cash shop would be used by the population, as well as projected revenue and profit from game sales.

if your business model is dependent on 100% of your user base using the cash shop, then that is a poor business model. If your analysis shows people are less likely to use the cash shop, then it will require a sub (see WoW subscription model, which existed before there was a plethora of data showing people are very likely to spend money on virtual goods).

How is it a poor business model if people are spending, and the game is still running?

I understand that it’s RISKY at the offset, to be sure, but nothing ventured, nothing gained.

I think it’s turned out to be a GREAT business model for them. It was a great business model in GW1, and it was so great that B2P and F2P imitators started popping up all over the place.

Arenanet is probably single-handedly responsible for the F2P craze that MMO games have turned into.

and they will help the mmo players realize a sub is the way to go, you’re right this is nothing more then a trend to pass, hopefully very soon. Many players starting to realize how beneficial a sub based mmo really is.

lets take a look after 8months of content..

1.No lfg tool….really in 8months
2. The most anticlimactic story ending ever (unfinished pushed out early, no fix yet)
3. World dragons that have AI of bowser from mario
4. No real reward system for WvW, no updates in maps, probably one of the leading reasons many players came to this game & one of the most ignored content in game by devs.
5.Legendary takes ZERO skill & revolves around the gem store b2p model
6. High end mats low drops=because of b2p gem store model
7. Horrible pve culling still
8.PvE endgame consisting of running the same dungeon 50x, then capped..
9. Guild bounty, out of all the interesting guild content that could have been introduced we get that.
10.Horrible economy ran by the gemstore and goldfarming sites

lets see what we got…
Silk shirts
$10mining picks
dyes
pets
flame&frost—-> yawn excuse for more gemstore content
funbox—-> yawn excuse for more gemstore content
Townclothes
RNG gamble boxes

the focus of development in this game is and always will be around the gemstore, not actual engaging substantial content.

It’s interesting that you think a monthly fee would fix this stuff. SWToR and Rift both charged a month fee. Neither launched with a looking for group finder. Anet is working on one. It took SWToR with it’s monthly fee six months to get it out. I don’t remember how long Rift’s took.

Are you suggesting the story in most pay to play MMOs is good? Because most pay to play MMOs never really had a personal story anyway. I know Tera was pay to play when it started. I guess you’re not going to tell me about how great taht story is. Or DDO.

A monthly fee wouldn’t fix this game or make it right. Some of the stuff will be fixed over time, such as the looking for group tool and some of it is just a matter of personal taste. Some people really like dyes and pets.

Drysdale.3826:

I’ve had similar results with the same class and same gear makeup. Though I believe my math got my magic find gear even higher.

I farm Orr events on my engineer in magic find gear. I get more rares farming Orr mobs in my Zerker gear on my Ranger.

I don’t get it…

Maybe you do more damage faster on your ranger, so you’re tagging more targets that then qualify you for a reward? Just a guess.

gkrit.9416:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I’ve repeated a lot about what I felt about the Manifesto: it was a goal, an ideal to strive for. This is what they want to do when they make a game, as best as they can. They missed. That doesn’t make it a lie, and people repeatedly trying to take single sentences out of context annoy me more than the people labeling it as “one great marketing lie”. (Half right, it was a marketing ploy.)

This is pretty funny.

But what exactly has been taken out of context in this situation?

The sentence most taken out of context is the one about grind. It’s clear from the context exactly what Colin is talking about and people try to use it to say that Anet said there would be on grind in this game. Not quite what was said in the manifesto however.

Scrambles.2604:

Mirta.5029:

Scrambles.2604:

I personally don’t see the value in intangible virtual content. It doesn’t have any practical value, your investment on your purchase depreciates IMMEDIATELY, so your funds can never be recovered (unless you ebay your account).

One could also argue that buying an MMO is worthless, because it would only last as long as the servers do.

Sure, you could definitely argue that. What your paying for is for server space for your account, which serves a function. In game aesthetic items lack that or any useful function.

That’s like saying going to the movies is worthless because after two hours, you’re going home. Playing tennis is worthless, because once you’’re done paying for the court, it’s over.

Anything that provides entertainment is worth something. How much is up to each individual. I wouldn’t go to a club and dance all night but some people find that worth it.

gkrit.9416:

Vayne.8563:

gkrit.9416:

-cut-

snip

snip

My wife plays this game, and she doesn’t really look at numbers at all. She doesn’t care about them. She either can beat something or she can’t and if she can’t, she’ll make changes until she can. It’s a different thought process, a different way of looking at the world.

You’re completely justified in your view of the game. You don’t have to prove it to anyone, least of all yourself. It’s okay to find a game grindy or not like a game.

I’m simply saying that there’s also a different mindset out there, and that it’s a pretty wide-spread one. People play these games for all different reasons.

When I try to show the other side of the coin, it doesn’t mean that your opinion is wrong. It means that all the examples and math and whatever that you show only means something to people who actually care about that particularly thing.

For example, someone did math to show how much more powerful a person is with ascended gear vs. not having ascended gear.

When I go into WvW, I hardly ever 1v1 anyway, but when I do, I win about as often as I lose. Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose. I have no clue what the other guy is wearing. He could have full ascended gear and he could not.

The idea that there is a higher stat doesn’t take into account the fact that when you meet someone in one vs. one combat, you already have a build and they already have a build and you each already have professions and based on that alone, that battle could already be won or lost. If you’re depending on boons and the other guy is adept at stripping boons, you’re at a major disadvantage. It’s entirely possible having ascended gear isn’t going to save you.

So I go into WvW, knowing that it’s not balanced for 1v1 anyway and most of the time I’m with a group. The guys who play better or have the better builds for the encounter will likely win. The ascended stuff doesn’t make enough difference for me to worry about it.

You can worry about it if you want. Lots of people do, but they’re making a whole bunch of assumptions when they meet another player in a 1v1 situation.

It doesn’t invalidate the opinion of the person who feels he needs ascended gear. But nor does that invalidate my opinion that that person only needs it because he feels he needs it, not because the game requires him to need it…and that’s a major difference to me.

In Rift, if I didn’t have 100 focus, I couldn’t queue for a dungeon. Didn’t matter what I felt or what I didn’t, I couldn’t do the content. But I get around WvW without ascended gear just fine.

It’s not that the math behind someone’s opinion is wrong. It’s that it takes a certain mindset to care about that, and I simple don’t personally have that mindset.

Countless others have said that it IS a a grind game lol. So what is it I wonder?

Now this is where discussion goes nowhere. This topic discussion however has gone as long as it has because obviously there is two sides to this story and somewhere along the lines, something is not right. This is where the middle man (Anet in this case) needs to be included to take both sides into account and move forward from there. I just really hope they read these threads.

They read some of them. I doubt they can read every thread. After all, Anet isn’t a person, it’s a company. Even if people in the company do read every thread, they’d still only bring certain threads to the attention of the devs, like first readers in publishing companies.

The thing is, whether it’s a grind game or not is completely a matter of perspective. Of how you approach the game. I don’t think Anet thinks their game is grindy because they’ve said they don’t make grindy games. Therefore, they don’t see the grind. My guess is, they’re approaching it from my point of view, more than your point of view.

There was a ton of grind in Guild Wars 1 too…optional grind. But even so there was grind that could make your character more powerful. People seem to forget this. Your luxon, sunspear, lightbringer, norn, asura, ebon vanguard and deldrimor skills all increased as you leveled that faction. You got more power for that grind. And that grind was far worse than getting ascended weapons.

No way anyone can convince me that technobabble, pain inverter and save yourselves, when leveled in Guild Wars 1, weren’t almost game-breakingly powerful in PVe. And they all required grind to level them to be useful.

Plus in some areas, or against some enemies you got bonuses for grinding in EotN. Grind isn’t new to this franchise.

But again, you didn’t have to do it in Guild Wars 1 and you don’t have to do it here. (See I provided data, aren’t you proud of me? lol).

Ah, I should have realized. lol

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Vayne.8563:

When I go into WvW, I hardly ever 1v1 anyway, but when I do, I win about as often as I lose. Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose. I have no clue what the other guy is wearing. He could have full ascended gear and he could not.

Are you playing a ranger? If you are, how do you win, because I have yet to actually win a 1v1 match in WvW

I am playing a ranger. Scary huh? I’m specced so my pet does a lot more damage than me. Most people tend to ignore my pet and go after me. I’m also a sylvari and get 3 seconds of invulnerability with my elite. When combined with the turrets that spawn and my pet and me…well…I can be pretty hard to kill. If they take down my pet first, or try to, I just switch pets before it dies.

Like I say, I win as much as I lose. Naturally dodging and knowing when to back off help a lot.

Seems to me the capitalists would want to sell the stuff you have to keep buying, rather than the thing you only have to buy once. That’s why inkjet printers are so cheap…so they can rip you off on the ink cartridges.

The only thing that surprises me is that they actually made the pick using the dredge technology, instead of burying the patent as deep as they could. lol

Except that ten levels in Guild Wars 2 could take like a day or two. Leveling at high levels really goes fast. If they open new zones, you might level just exploring them normally.

gkrit.9416:

@vayne – this is no attack at you but all this talk about opinions being valid and whatnot has pretty much been blown out of proportion. The only thing that really bugged me is that when i had solid reference to back up some of the things i said and why I felt a certain way (no-grind game topic), you pretty much completely dismissed it without linking me to any sources that say otherwise and it was just me being ignorant.

I was not at fault when they said that they “don’t want Gw2 to be a grind game” when in fact after playing the game I found it to be a fairly high-grind based game.

That’s pretty misleading don’t you think? Can you blame me for being a little upset?

Also, the discussion about making Gw2 different for the better, well….
Assassins Creed has been kept the same throughout the series… the only difference is they have improved on the core systems, refine mechanics with new stories and added new features in each addition. They never turned it into a first person shooter otherwise it wouldn’t be “Assassins Creed”, would it? I know Assassins Creed is not an MMO but the principles still stand.
As for Gw2, they may as well have changed it to a first person shooter.

Basically, this is the point I’ve been trying to make this whole time to help justify why I feel this way about this game.

How many people on these forums, besides me, have said this is NOT a grind game or that there’s no grind in the game, or that the grind is completely optional. Surely I’m not the only person you’ve seen who’s said this.

You can put all the data you want down, but data doesn’t mean everything and in some ways it doesn’t mean anything. Or at least, it only means things to certain kinds of players.

My wife plays this game, and she doesn’t really look at numbers at all. She doesn’t care about them. She either can beat something or she can’t and if she can’t, she’ll make changes until she can. It’s a different thought process, a different way of looking at the world.

You’re completely justified in your view of the game. You don’t have to prove it to anyone, least of all yourself. It’s okay to find a game grindy or not like a game.

I’m simply saying that there’s also a different mindset out there, and that it’s a pretty wide-spread one. People play these games for all different reasons.

When I try to show the other side of the coin, it doesn’t mean that your opinion is wrong. It means that all the examples and math and whatever that you show only means something to people who actually care about that particularly thing.

For example, someone did math to show how much more powerful a person is with ascended gear vs. not having ascended gear.

When I go into WvW, I hardly ever 1v1 anyway, but when I do, I win about as often as I lose. Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose. I have no clue what the other guy is wearing. He could have full ascended gear and he could not.

The idea that there is a higher stat doesn’t take into account the fact that when you meet someone in one vs. one combat, you already have a build and they already have a build and you each already have professions and based on that alone, that battle could already be won or lost. If you’re depending on boons and the other guy is adept at stripping boons, you’re at a major disadvantage. It’s entirely possible having ascended gear isn’t going to save you.

So I go into WvW, knowing that it’s not balanced for 1v1 anyway and most of the time I’m with a group. The guys who play better or have the better builds for the encounter will likely win. The ascended stuff doesn’t make enough difference for me to worry about it.

You can worry about it if you want. Lots of people do, but they’re making a whole bunch of assumptions when they meet another player in a 1v1 situation.

It doesn’t invalidate the opinion of the person who feels he needs ascended gear. But nor does that invalidate my opinion that that person only needs it because he feels he needs it, not because the game requires him to need it…and that’s a major difference to me.

In Rift, if I didn’t have 100 focus, I couldn’t queue for a dungeon. Didn’t matter what I felt or what I didn’t, I couldn’t do the content. But I get around WvW without ascended gear just fine.

It’s not that the math behind someone’s opinion is wrong. It’s that it takes a certain mindset to care about that, and I simple don’t personally have that mindset.

clay.7849:

phys.7689:

I think the point hes making here is not that you shouldnt have an opinion. I think he is saying that simply dismissing everything as opinion is worthless in terms of actual problem solving. Hes saying dont just say nothing matters because everyone has an opinion.

Say i have this opinion based on these factors, heres where i think something is strong, and heres where i think something is lacking. The point is to have a discussion that may give deeper understanding or bear fruit. The topic is do you find the game fun. Of course its going to be an opinion, but theoretically by discussing why yes, and why no, someone seeking solutions maybe able to glean useful information on why people are happy, or not happy, and better allot their resources towards making the game over all, better.

Of course nothing may come of it, but eh point of a forum is discussion, why not try.

Exactly. When I talk about something like, I think the game lacks depth because of XYZ, it would be more prudent to discuss XYZ rather than dismiss the idea that the game lacks depth because you don’t think so.

That is the whole point and why we keep running in to these issues.

If we have an opinion about the game, one should state why they have that opinion. Then instead of attacking that opinion with another, you should argue the reasons behind the first person’s opinion. That is how good conversation and arguments happen.

Except that in many threads I do provide information to back up why I think what I think, and you just dismiss it or ignore it anyway.

In a thread about Anet hiring people instead of laying off people, as possibly showing the health of game, you claim that they could be hiring people even if the game is doing badly. When I talk about the servers being expanded, as per an Anet rep, you deftly sidestep that fact too.

It actually doesn’t really matter if I support my opinion or not in posts to you, because you don’t pay any attention to what I say anyway.

Guns and Giblets.9308:

Vayne.8563:

I’ve replied to this sort of thing several times in several different threads.

Hi. You’re talking to me. I have no idea what you’ve done “several times in several different threads.” My perception of your posts is based on your interaction with me. Review our posting interaction. You tend to post opinions and discredit my posts about facts or figures as opinion. That’s trading in opinion. It’s pointless.

The problem is, when you guys attack me personally because you don’t like my opinion. I’m not ENCOURAGED to have a conversation with you.

Where have I personally attacked you? Is this like you claiming I think gear progression “is of the devil”? Provide evidence or retract your slander.

I’ll let others decide whether or not I’m just a man of opinions or if I have facts to back them up. I know I have a few detractors on these forums, but as many detractors as I have, I’ve gotten personal messages from far more people who like what I have to say.

Yes, and some of my posts refuting yours have received a lot of “likes.” Does that ultimately mean anything? No.

Unlike you, I’m not interested in (unverifiable) popularity contests.

Your posts have become tainted with martyr syndrome. Unless you post something substantive, you’re welcome to the last word.

If you don’t like my posts, feel free not to respond. It’s pretty much that simple. I don’t have a problem with it.

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

Guns and Giblets.9308:

Vayne.8563:

And when the argument goes against you,

What arguments? You trade in opinions, not arguments.

You say this all the time. It’s only true if you refuse to read the stuff I actually write.

You talk about things like balance or depth of game play and how much better it is was in Guild Wars 1.

I’ve replied to this sort of thing several times in several different threads. Talking about how in Guild Wars 1 there were plenty of balance issues as well. I’ve brought up stuff like the perma-sin nerf, the ursan nerf, etc. I’ve brought up in various threads how ritualists were so OP, it completely killed PVe for just about anything but a couple of high end instances. I’ve talked about how necromancers may have had a ton of elite skills, but you pretty much used three of them. I’d say just about every necro in the game was either using discord, aura of the lich, or blood is power if they were farming with a team in UW.

Yes, I’ve given data to back up my opinions. Guild Wars 1, balance wise, isn’t exactly a bastion of virtue. It had it’s flaws, some of them serious. And a lot of people left Guild Wars 1 because of balance issues.

The game was too hard to balance, because of the depth. And it got worse as the game went on, because more skills were added.

So Anet goes with a system that’s easier to balance and has less skills. We don’t know if more skills will be added over time or not, but if they are, it still should be easier to balance, particularly with skills being tied to weapons.

The problem is, when you guys attack me personally because you don’t like my opinion. I’m not ENCOURAGED to have a conversation with you.

I’ll let others decide whether or not I’m just a man of opinions or if I have facts to back them up. I know I have a few detractors on these forums, but as many detractors as I have, I’ve gotten personal messages from far more people who like what I have to say.

I think the point hes making here is not that you shouldnt have an opinion. I think he is saying that simply dismissing everything as opinion is worthless in terms of actual problem solving. Hes saying dont just say nothing matters because everyone has an opinion.

Say i have this opinion based on these factors, heres where i think something is strong, and heres where i think something is lacking. The point is to have a discussion that may give deeper understanding or bear fruit. The topic is do you find the game fun. Of course its going to be an opinion, but theoretically by discussing why yes, and why no, someone seeking solutions maybe able to glean useful information on why people are happy, or not happy, and better allot their resources towards making the game over all, better.

Of course nothing may come of it, but eh point of a forum is discussion, why not try.

As I’ve said in my examples above, I do go reasons for my opinions. Or I have done in a number of threads, until a couple of people decided to get personal. At that point, I have less desire to share reasons or opinions with those people. I think this is entirely reasonable.

I’ll happily give reasons for my opinions to you, should a post required it. But I don’t feel the need to abide rudeness.

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

You can’t really have an opinion…

Sorry Vayne, that’s where you lost me. I couldn’t get over that statement and gave up reading the rest. That might be the dumbest thing someone has ever said.

You can’t have opinions about a fact. That’s basic to any system of logic. If you didn’t read the rest, that’s on you. Other people understand it.

If the temperature is 80 degrees F and I think it feels colder, that doesn’t change the fact that the temperature is 80 degrees F. A fact is a fact.

Either the games population is declining or it’s not. You BELIEVE it is but there’s no evidence for it. It’s still not an opinion.

If we don’t know the facts, then it is definitely possible to have an opinion. Just like when someone says it looks cold outside. Until you are outside or know the temperature, you are allowed to have an opinion of the temperature because you don’t know what it is. Therefore, I can have an opinion about something which none of us knows the truth about.

Again, I’m disagreeing with the use of the word opinion. You can guess at the weather, and you might be right or wrong, but it’s demonstrable. I’d never use the word opinion to say what the temperature is like. This is a semantic difference.

Actually I just looked it up and you can have your opinion back. It’s still an opinion that ignores every bit of circumstantial evidence, for which you have no answer, but it’s definitely your opinion.

clay.7849:

Aeonblade.8709:

I like cheese.

Also, since I have started playing again back in February, only half the servers were above medium population. Until they updated the capacity a week or so ago, they had pretty much all moved to Very High or at least High. I know that’s just a count of accounts tied to the server for their home world, but that certainly means people are still buying the game in droves.

You have sales numbers and server activity reports? If so, please share.

Do you? If so please share.

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

You can’t really have an opinion…

Sorry Vayne, that’s where you lost me. I couldn’t get over that statement and gave up reading the rest. That might be the dumbest thing someone has ever said.

You can’t have opinions about a fact. That’s basic to any system of logic. If you didn’t read the rest, that’s on you. Other people understand it.

If the temperature is 80 degrees F and I think it feels colder, that doesn’t change the fact that the temperature is 80 degrees F. A fact is a fact.

Either the games population is declining or it’s not. You BELIEVE it is but there’s no evidence for it. It’s still not an opinion.

Guns and Giblets.9308:

Vayne.8563:

And when the argument goes against you,

What arguments? You trade in opinions, not arguments.

You say this all the time. It’s only true if you refuse to read the stuff I actually write.

You talk about things like balance or depth of game play and how much better it is was in Guild Wars 1.

I’ve replied to this sort of thing several times in several different threads. Talking about how in Guild Wars 1 there were plenty of balance issues as well. I’ve brought up stuff like the perma-sin nerf, the ursan nerf, etc. I’ve brought up in various threads how ritualists were so OP, it completely killed PVe for just about anything but a couple of high end instances. I’ve talked about how necromancers may have had a ton of elite skills, but you pretty much used three of them. I’d say just about every necro in the game was either using discord, aura of the lich, or blood is power if they were farming with a team in UW.

Yes, I’ve given data to back up my opinions. Guild Wars 1, balance wise, isn’t exactly a bastion of virtue. It had it’s flaws, some of them serious. And a lot of people left Guild Wars 1 because of balance issues.

The game was too hard to balance, because of the depth. And it got worse as the game went on, because more skills were added.

So Anet goes with a system that’s easier to balance and has less skills. We don’t know if more skills will be added over time or not, but if they are, it still should be easier to balance, particularly with skills being tied to weapons.

The problem is, when you guys attack me personally because you don’t like my opinion. I’m not ENCOURAGED to have a conversation with you.

I’ll let others decide whether or not I’m just a man of opinions or if I have facts to back them up. I know I have a few detractors on these forums, but as many detractors as I have, I’ve gotten personal messages from far more people who like what I have to say.

Guns and Giblets.9308:

Vayne.8563:

Whether or not someone likes a game’s core mechanics IS opinion.

I explained why trading competing opinions—if it’s going to be done meaningfully—involves more than just blurting them out; that’s ultimately useless. You’re not listening. No one is interested in your opinion that my opinion is wrong. Please discuss reasons the game is fun or not fun. I provided some. Interact with them or don’t bother responding.

But all of this, every single bit of it, is just opinion. You think gear progression is the devil incarnate, a lot of people don’t. Just opinion.

Where did I ever say that gear progression is “the devil incarnate”? How many times are you going to exaggerate or otherwise misrepresent what I’ve said?

Guns and Giblets.9308:

Vayne.8563:

Whether or not someone likes a game’s core mechanics IS opinion.

I explained why trading competing opinions—if it’s going to be done meaningfully—involves more than just blurting them out; that’s ultimately useless. You’re not listening. No one is interested in your opinion that my opinion is wrong. Please discuss reasons the game is fun or not fun. I provided some. Interact with them or don’t bother responding.

But all of this, every single bit of it, is just opinion. You think gear progression is the devil incarnate, a lot of people don’t. Just opinion.

Where did I ever say that gear progression is “the devil incarnate”? How many times are you going to exaggerate or otherwise misrepresent what I’ve said?

I don’t just state opinions either. I give reasons to. You may not like them, but I give them.

For example, people say there’s no depth to the combat in this game and you can’t make builds like you do in Guild Wars 1. That’s an opinion.

I believe that Guild Wars 1 was too hard to balance. That’s my opinion. I’ve given in various threads several reasons why, and examples of times they’ve had to nerf builds to balance things out. You choose to see what you want to see.

Mostly I have a couple of guys on these forums who attack me regularly and I’m okay with that, because it’s not really winning them any arguments.

But I won’t be bullied. Not by you. Not by anyone.

You don’t have to like my opinions. But you won’t stop me from stating them.

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

@Guns and Giblets

He is never going to understand. No point in trying to reason with someone who is unreasonable.

Oh I understand fine. You’re kitten because you feel betrayed. And you’re unhappy so you want everyone else to be unhappy. You can’t STAND it that people are enjoying this game. A game you desperately wanted to enjoy but couldn’t.

So you make your like jibes and you snipe and you try to convince people to be just as unhappy as you are. And you know, people see it. I’m not the only one.

But it’s cool. Because I’ll never understand.

Wow. You are good at stereotyping people. Do you do that just for forum goers or does that creep into your life for people of different races, ethnicity and religious backgrounds too?

Sorry guy but it’s pretty obvious. And when the argument goes against you, you then resort to personal insults. And when you’re called on that you say cute things like “Who are you, my father?”

No. I’m not your father, though I might be old enough to be. I simply don’t believe that hanging around a game forum for a game I’m not enjoying, and trying to ruin other people’s enjoyment of it is a noble act.

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

@Clay

This is your original post on the subject:

Agreed. It seems to me that the declining player base may also be why the expansion was nixed to quickly. I doubt NCSoft wants to continue to fund an expansion for a game that failed to hold the attention of the majority of it’s original customer base.

You say it seems to you that the declining player base is the reason the expansion was nixed. That implies it’s your opinion about why it is nixed.

In order to have that opinion you first most prove there’s a declining player base. You not only have no proof of this, but you completely ignore things like servers being expanded. No lay offs. No server mergers. No evidence at all except that you don’t want this game to do well because you feel betrayed.

You make comments about what you think NCsoft wants to or doesn’t want to do. Have you looked at the NCsoft quarterly report. Guild Wars 2 was their most profitable title. Blade and Soul didn’t sell nearly as well as expected. The entire company is pinning their hopes now on this and Wild Star.

See, I look at these things before making generalized statements with no proof to back them up. Then I state something I’ve observed and has been talked about over the years and you ask me to prove it.

You’re very funny. Can I keep you?

I don’t need to prove anything. It is MY OPINION that there is a declining player base. Nothing I stated was intended to be stated as fact – just opinion.

You, on the other hand, as always, use YOUR OPINION AS FACT to try and disprove my opinion. This is why the burden is on you to prove yourself right.

Otherwise, just state your opinion, without the necessity to try and disprove mine, and we can all live comfy cozy without the need to step on each other’s toes unless we have facts to back up our opinions. Which, by the way, neither of us do.

See, you think I care about making my opinion right. I don’t. I’m just stating my opinion as part of this community of forum goers. Nothing more, nothing less.

You can’t really have an opinion about whether the game is losing active players, because that’s either fact or not fact. There’s no real opinion to be had here. You may THINK the game is losing players, but that’s hardly an opinion. It’s simply something you think from whatever observations you make. I don’t know what you’re basing it on, but then you go and continue to make a logical conclusion based on something that is simply not provable anyway, in any form.

Your conclusion is that NCsoft abandoned work on an expansion because of low revenue. And they did this without laying off any of the 270 Anet employees while actively hiring more. See, is is a fact that Anet is hiring and if there was a layoff, we’d know about it, because NCSoft is a public company. They’d have to tell investors or they could get into trouble.

What you have an opinion based on an axiomatic statement. You’re taking it as given, with no proof whatsoever, that the game’s population is actually declining. Not one single shred of evidence.

At least I have circumstantial evidence to back me up, if not facts. If you base opinions like that, on axiomatic statements with no evidence, you should expect to be called on them.

Guns and Giblets.9308:

Vayne.8563:

I’m not sure why you think this would bother me.

I didn’t; you assume I care enough to “bother” you.

The point is that we can’t have a discussion or a conversation about these issues when everything you post ultlimately reduces to opinions that can’t resolve anything. Yet you continue to post that people who don’t think the game is fun are really just wrong about mechanics being broken and/or underdeveloped or that they are wrong about the direction of the game and development.

You can’t have it both ways. Either your opinion is just as valid as mine, or one of us is objectively wrong on some shared criteria and/or set of facts.

For example:

Are skills tied to weapon sets a good thing or a bad thing? As it stands, I find such an arrangement poorly implemented, reducing creativity and depth of combat. Developers could introduce some more meaningful skills that don’t entail a great deal of redundancy and aren’t centered mostly around DPS; control and pressure elements would bring a great deal of diversity to build style and play. However, such skills couldn’t be introduced without finding a way to overhaul some or many of the weapon skills, either allowing some skills to be swapped out on particular weapons or introducing a whole new set of weapons.

If I make such a claim, what people are interested in discussing is whether the core mechanic needs to be changed or whether it can be salvaged with significant changes (or some ingenious set of tweaks). What specific improvements could be made and would they work?

If someone thinks the set of core mechanics is fine, people who think it’s flawed aren’t interested in hearing that your friends, guildies and/or some other set of people have an opinion that differs. What they want, if anything, is a set of compelling reasons that demonstrates or otherwise attempts to argue that the system is either: (a) going to improve with some set of specific and identifiable changes or (b) is better than perceived or really quite fine if a certain set of other facts are taken into account. Testimonials about the quality of someone’s experience don’t count in this situation in any meaningful way.

Whether or not someone likes a game’s core mechanics IS opinion.

You can say there’s not enough variety. I can say there’s enough variety for me. You can say the balance is bad, I can point to other games where many people have said the balance was bad, including Guild Wars 1.

But all of this, every single bit of it, is just opinion. You think gear progression is the devil incarnate, a lot of people don’t. Just opinion.

You don’t like the combat system, other people do. You can’t quantify everything in life. It’s just not possible.

Plenty of people don’t like the combat system in Guild Wars 2 and plenty do. It really is that simple. You can discuss it till the cows come home, but I doubt anyone is going to change their mind.

Fyrebrand.4859:

Once upon a time, in a far away land, there lived a boy who didn’t like a certain video game. He decided that the video game just wasn’t for him, and that he did not like to play it. However, rather than fester and stew over it indefinitely, the boy decided merely to set the game aside and contently stop playing it.

“Oh, how horrible!” his mother cried. “What has become of our poor boy? He has lost his mind! Why does he not throw things and scream at the game, like a normal child?”

“Why, he hasn’t even been to the forums!” his father grumbled, furrowing his brow in concern. “I’m afraid if he doesn’t change his ways soon, we’ll have to disown him!”

The village doctor was called in, to examine the boy who didn’t like a video game. He showed the boy ink blotches made to resemble cash shop boosters and mystic keys, asking the boy how he felt when he looked at them.

“Fine, I guess,” the boy replied. “I feel like I don’t really need them, though. So I wouldn’t buy them.”

“You don’t feel like throwing a tantrum?” the doctor asked. “Or calling game developers liars and hypocrites? You don’t want to smash your keyboard?”

“No, not really.”

“How do you feel about the game’s manifesto? Isn’t it outrageous?”

“I don’t really care.”

With that, the doctor declared with solemnity that the child was beyond help — possibly possessed of a daemon — and must be banished to the wilderness and never spoken of again. With much sorrow, the boy’s parents took him to the edge of town and sent him off down the road, with a sack of corn and enough water to last him 3 days. Then they went home, burned all the boy’s former belongings, and prayed for their boy’s soul.

And to this day, none are certain what became of the boy. Some say he was raised by wolves in the enchanted forest. Others claim he eventually came around, and became a proud forum warrior who raged against the oppressive regimes of game developers across the internet. Still others believe he gave up worrying about games he didn’t like entirely, and wanders the edge of the world like a ghost.

You are my hero. lmao

@Clay

This is your original post on the subject:

Agreed. It seems to me that the declining player base may also be why the expansion was nixed to quickly. I doubt NCSoft wants to continue to fund an expansion for a game that failed to hold the attention of the majority of it’s original customer base.

You say it seems to you that the declining player base is the reason the expansion was nixed. That implies it’s your opinion about why it is nixed.

In order to have that opinion you first most prove there’s a declining player base. You not only have no proof of this, but you completely ignore things like servers being expanded. No lay offs. No server mergers. No evidence at all except that you don’t want this game to do well because you feel betrayed.

You make comments about what you think NCsoft wants to or doesn’t want to do. Have you looked at the NCsoft quarterly report. Guild Wars 2 was their most profitable title. Blade and Soul didn’t sell nearly as well as expected. The entire company is pinning their hopes now on this and Wild Star.

See, I look at these things before making generalized statements with no proof to back them up. Then I state something I’ve observed and has been talked about over the years and you ask me to prove it.

You’re very funny. Can I keep you?

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Chuo.4238:

Tachenon.5270:

.

Was Ascended Gear truly in the works before the game launched? Is there any mention of Ascended Gear prior to its unveiling in November? If Ascended Gear had been mentioned in the Manifesto, how would it have affected the launch of GW2?

It was never mentioned before the Lost Shores update was mentioned. I think it was a knee-jerk reaction to a declining playerbase (normal after a couple months in any game) that backfired horribly, because they didn’t believe that all those people who didn’t want Ascended gear really meant it.

They were convinced, I believe, that the gear treadmill formula was something most players wanted.

Agreed. It seems to me that the declining player base may also be why the expansion was nixed to quickly. I doubt NCSoft wants to continue to fund an expansion for a game that failed to hold the attention of the majority of it’s original customer base.

Traditionally in MMO space, expansions are made when games aren’t doing as well. If a game is doing well, you hold off on the expansion. The idea is to get people back into the game when most people have left…and it usually works. That’s why smaller games like Perfect World keep making expansions.

Games that are doing really well hold their expansions for a time when another big game is coming out.

Your expertise on the matter is greatly appreciated. I’m glad we have someone so knowledgeable about the MMO business to tell us why and when MMO’s make expansions.

Seriously man, you don’t know any of this to be true. You’re just spouting garbage.

How do you know I’m spouting garbage? That’s what I’d like to know. Because you think so? Well, that puts that into perspective.

I’m really glad you say stuff like that. Then everyone can read what we write and decide which of us is “spouting garbage” as you so quaintly put it.

You really do entertain me.

If you are going to make broad statements like developers only make expansions when games aren’t doing well, please provide proof. The burden is on you. Russell’s Teapot, etc.

Actually I don’t feel burdened at all. It’s pretty logical, and anyone who’s followed MMOS for years will tell you that people get tired and bored and then they stop playing and then expansions are released. MMOs that are doing well, they have high numbers, they don’t really need to put time and effort into an expansion, because logically, they still have a strong player base.

Ask anyone that plays WoW how much the game play drops off before expansions and how expansions bring people back to the game. Rift has done it too. In fact, I can give you many MANY examples of people saving expansions to release when a new game releases or another expansion from a different game releases. It’s almost business as usual.

These business time expansions to compete with stuff, and get players back. Or to try to hold onto the players they have.

And then you have canny operators like Trion who went completely silent when SWToR came out. Not at word about anything. Nothing new. No promotion. Because they knew they couldn’t compete with Star Wars ToR in advertising dollars, so they figured they’d let it get some steam, wait till people were disatisfied and then start putting out material again. It’s a smart move.

Some of this stuff is discussed on shows like TWIMMO (This week in MMO) hosted by Gary Ganon on Gamebreaker TV. They talk about this kind of stuff all the time. There’s even a quick question and answer show on gamebreaker about the business of MMOs.

But the real thing is actually just following the games and the forums and making observations over the years. It’s called experience. It’s very much under-rated…particularly by people who don’t have it.

Guild Wars 2 isn’t doing well and that’s why they’re not working on an expansion. This is your theory. Instead they’re giving away free content every month, because they’re not doing well. Instead they’re just laying down and dying after the five years of work they put into the game.

They didn’t just increase the server size again, did they, to keep up with the demand? Or did you miss that thread.

See, you don’t like this game as much as Guild Wars 1, so you don’t want it to do well. It’s called self-fulfilling prophecy. But I made my comment in response to your comment, which said they’re not doing an expansion because they’re not doing well. You said the burden of proof is on me. How come, since you started this, the burden of proof isn’t on you?

Mirta.5029:

Drew.1865:

Mirta.5029:

Drew.1865:

clay.7849:

Guns and Giblets.9308:

Vayne.8563:

This isn’t true. Anet’s loyalty isn’t to the WoW playerbase. Anet’s loyalty is to keeping the game alive.

He didn’t say Anet’s loyalty was to the WoW playerbase. It’s fairly clear the meaning of his comments, in context, is that Anet had to cater to some of the impulses/desires of the same kinds of people who play WoW in order to increase game sales. Reading comprehension is hard.

And, as is turns out (and you tacitly admit), developing content that appeals to people who also like WoW is what the developers think will keep this game alive. Yet that’s exactly the kind of content many of us aren’t interested in playing and bought this game to avoid.

And, specifically what GW1 was able to do in the past and the premise of GW2 when they said it was a game for people who don’t like MMO’s.

GW2 is just another themepark MMO. Sure, it has better graphics, but it is just another themepark MMO like WoW. It isn’t different or groundbreaking or genre changing. Everything GW2 has done has been implemented in some way in another MMO previously.

But other mmos do at least one thing well and this game does none of them well. It’s like a clusterkitten ADD theme park Korean casino grindfest.

Even the cash shop is pointless. How hard is it to actually put things people want in a cash shop?

you mean make the game pay to win? Gem shop items are vanity items only for a reason.

Last time I checked buying gems and converting them to gold to buy a set of exotics was pay to win. Also I regret not rolling a Charr so he could wear a hoody.

except that you’re still able to get the same set without switching gems to gold, plus it doesn’t even take that much time. Pay to win games offer “useful” items that are better than any item you can get in game and you have to buy it if you want to be on par with other people.

I agree. I mean you can’t really have this both ways. People are complaining that ascended items are hard to get, or take a long time to get, and that they have the best stats. You cant’ buy them in the trading post. You can’t buy them with gold. You can only get them the way everyone else gets them.

You’d think if this game was pay 2 win, they’d be allowing people to sell ascended gear on the trading post. That’s what people want anyway, and Anet hasn’t done so.

Guess pay to win doesn’t mean what I think it means.

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Chuo.4238:

Tachenon.5270:

.

Was Ascended Gear truly in the works before the game launched? Is there any mention of Ascended Gear prior to its unveiling in November? If Ascended Gear had been mentioned in the Manifesto, how would it have affected the launch of GW2?

It was never mentioned before the Lost Shores update was mentioned. I think it was a knee-jerk reaction to a declining playerbase (normal after a couple months in any game) that backfired horribly, because they didn’t believe that all those people who didn’t want Ascended gear really meant it.

They were convinced, I believe, that the gear treadmill formula was something most players wanted.

Agreed. It seems to me that the declining player base may also be why the expansion was nixed to quickly. I doubt NCSoft wants to continue to fund an expansion for a game that failed to hold the attention of the majority of it’s original customer base.

Traditionally in MMO space, expansions are made when games aren’t doing as well. If a game is doing well, you hold off on the expansion. The idea is to get people back into the game when most people have left…and it usually works. That’s why smaller games like Perfect World keep making expansions.

Games that are doing really well hold their expansions for a time when another big game is coming out.

Your expertise on the matter is greatly appreciated. I’m glad we have someone so knowledgeable about the MMO business to tell us why and when MMO’s make expansions.

Seriously man, you don’t know any of this to be true. You’re just spouting garbage.

How do you know I’m spouting garbage? That’s what I’d like to know. Because you think so? Well, that puts that into perspective.

I’m really glad you say stuff like that. Then everyone can read what we write and decide which of us is “spouting garbage” as you so quaintly put it.

You really do entertain me.

Guns and Giblets.9308:

Vayne.8563:

Except it’s not “like WoW”.

That’s a non sequitur. We were discussing your misinterpretation of someone’s comments.

Many of the elements in this game were designed to draw in people who would otherwise be disposed to like WoW. That doesn’t mean the game was made to be just like WoW or whatever it is you think we’re saying.

That’s what you Guild Wars 1 players seem to be missing. I keep hearing the words more like WoW, more like WoW. You guys are so sensitive to any change that wasn’t in Guild Wars 1, you can’t admit that it can be a positive change for the game over all.

Thanks for the baseless and prejudicial characterization of our reactions to changes in this game.

Please provide evidence or retract your claim. Your continued hyperbolic descriptions of people who are dissatisfied with the state of the game deserve to be reported and removed from this forum.

This game isn’t anything like WoW…unless you’re a Guild Wars 1 player. WoW people who play this game sure don’t seem to think it’s like WoW.

Here, let me just hold up a mirror:

That’s just your opinion. Lots of people disagree with it. Me/my guildies/my friends/people I know/experts in the MMO world that I’ve followed for years—all of them say that the game is significantly like WoW in several ways. I get that you don’t like people comparing GW2 to WoW. That doesn’t mean GW2 isn’t anything like WoW.

See how easy that was?

It’s very easy. And everyone can make up their own minds. You’ve said your bit, I’ve said mine.

There are a whole lot of WoW players that came here and don’t like the game because it’s really not very much like an MMO at all, and the MMO they’re comparing it to is WoW. Those people are probably all wrong. Even the OP asking for gear progression, saying that this game needs gear progression shows some people think this game doesn’t even have that.

Your opinion and those of your friends is absolutely valid. I have no problem with you doing what you just did. I think it’s great.

I’m not sure why you think this would bother me.

Drew.1865:

Vayne.8563:

Guns and Giblets.9308:

Vayne.8563:

This isn’t true. Anet’s loyalty isn’t to the WoW playerbase. Anet’s loyalty is to keeping the game alive.

He didn’t say Anet’s loyalty was to the WoW playerbase. It’s fairly clear the meaning of his comments, in context, is that Anet had to cater to some of the impulses/desires of the same kinds of people who play WoW in order to increase game sales. Reading comprehension is hard.

And, as is turns out (and you tacitly admit), developing content that appeals to people who also like WoW is what the developers think will keep this game alive. Yet that’s exactly the kind of content many of us aren’t interested in playing and bought this game to avoid.

Except it’s not “like WoW”. That’s what you Guild Wars 1 players seem to be missing. I keep hearing the words more like WoW, more like WoW. You guys are so sensitive to any change that wasn’t in Guild Wars 1, you can’t admit that it can be a positive change for the game over all.

Reference the so-called gear grind in this game. In WoW, you’re gated out of content by your gear. Very gated. Lots of gated. You have to run the same instance over and over to have an RNG chance at a drop, but it’s not just something you “want”. It’s something you absolutely MUST have. Not because it makes you 1% or 10% or 20% more powerful..but because you absolutely can’t enter the next raid until you’re geared for it. That doesn’t exist here, except in the fractals, which is self contained, because they give you what you need.

This game isn’t anything like WoW…unless you’re a Guild Wars 1 player. WoW people who play this game sure don’t seem to think it’s like WoW.

Not true you go to the AH and buy the pvp gear and start running heroics. Before mop you could buy gear with jp and jump levels content wise. I ran heroic dungeons for 2 days tops and was in raid finder. Wow content isn’t gated to the extent it used to be. Fractals are gated and so were dungeons in this game as far as skill is concerned until players ran the dungeons enough and discovered how poorly designed they were so they could farm them.

Oh you want to see gated take a group of level 35’s into AC ex and see how easy it is now.

You’re telling me you no longer have to gear up for Raids in WoW? Is that what you’re saying. I’ll go ask some people that are playing now, because it’s not quite what I’m hearing. You also have to do dailies to gain faction for stuff that you need as well.

Calling this game like WoW is like calling baseball like cricket. They both have a bat and a ball, but they’re very different games.

Ronah.2869:

The new unlimited mining pick in the gem store, again makes the rich, richer. How about adding these important things in the game not in the gem-store?

“Pay to win” strait in your face.
The rich can buy it with cash or gold, but who could afford the 800 gems = 17g+ if not only the TP masters? So make their life easier for farming more and earn more

In a future update we will see an unlimited harvesting tool and an unlimited chopping axe too, right?

The amount you’d have to mine/farm for this to break even is huge. Someone did the math in another thread. For the $10 of real life money that you spend, you’re saving a few silvers here and there. But mining picks you buy are profitable anyway. You’ll always make more money mining than buying the picks, so the profit difference is neglible.

Let’s look at this the other way. A guy goes to work, has a family, has a lot of responsbilities, and can’t sit and play as much. An unemployeed guy can play a lot more, but he can’t buy gems.

The guy who’s working and has responsibilities thinks, I can’t play this MMO, because I can’t keep up with anyone ever. The guy who plays all day, he’s going to have much more money. Be able to buy more things. He’ll have a huge advantage over me.

So the guy who works all the time, spends some dollars to help him stay a bit ahead in the game. Not quite pay to win.

Sure, if you don’t have a lot of money it seems like people who have money have a huge advantage. And if you don’t have a lot of time it seems like people with a lot of time to play have a huge advantage.

I have both money and time. You probably should hate me. lol

Guns and Giblets.9308:

Vayne.8563:

This isn’t true. Anet’s loyalty isn’t to the WoW playerbase. Anet’s loyalty is to keeping the game alive.

He didn’t say Anet’s loyalty was to the WoW playerbase. It’s fairly clear the meaning of his comments, in context, is that Anet had to cater to some of the impulses/desires of the same kinds of people who play WoW in order to increase game sales. Reading comprehension is hard.

And, as is turns out (and you tacitly admit), developing content that appeals to people who also like WoW is what the developers think will keep this game alive. Yet that’s exactly the kind of content many of us aren’t interested in playing and bought this game to avoid.

Except it’s not “like WoW”. That’s what you Guild Wars 1 players seem to be missing. I keep hearing the words more like WoW, more like WoW. You guys are so sensitive to any change that wasn’t in Guild Wars 1, you can’t admit that it can be a positive change for the game over all.

Reference the so-called gear grind in this game. In WoW, you’re gated out of content by your gear. Very gated. Lots of gated. You have to run the same instance over and over to have an RNG chance at a drop, but it’s not just something you “want”. It’s something you absolutely MUST have. Not because it makes you 1% or 10% or 20% more powerful..but because you absolutely can’t enter the next raid until you’re geared for it. That doesn’t exist here, except in the fractals, which is self contained, because they give you what you need.

This game isn’t anything like WoW…unless you’re a Guild Wars 1 player. WoW people who play this game sure don’t seem to think it’s like WoW.

I’m in the top 1000, so I’m not a 90%. lol

gkrit.9416:

Chuo.4238:

Vayne.8563:

How does this affect your game?

To be honest, I’m probably just looking for reasons to give it up. I had years of fun in Guild Wars, and tried pretty much everything that game had to offer. I played quite a few other games as well, but always kept coming back to Guild Wars.

Essentially, most of the reasons that kept me interested in Guild Wars aren’t here in GW2. I realize that they’re trying to make money by appealing to a larger crowd, but for me, that means it’s more like the games I didn’t like, because Guild Wars was better.

I had a great social time in Guild Wars as well. We (my old guildies/alliance mates) are generally disappointed in GW2, and feel it’s kind of sold out on us. Most don’t log on any more. The rest log on rarely. I think our (smallish) guild finally went dead when we realized that the guild missions were going to be more frustrating to unlock and activate than it was really worth. We’re still in touch, but mostly are playing other things until something comes along that grabs us like Guild Wars did.

So yea. I suppose I’m hanging on because of how great a time we had in Guild Wars. I keep hoping that ArenaNet will go back to that. But they’re a very different company now, with different ownership and priorities. And I can see where GW2 could have been great, but they just don’t seem to have the courage to get quite that far outside the box.

Anyway. Whoever had the patience to read that probably is wondering why they bothered.

TL:DR – I guess I’m just looking for reasons to finally leave, now, and one tends to find what one seeks.

I read this and was like … wait … i didn’t write this.

This is basically how I would describe my feeling about this game aswell.

Guild wars 1 was different to every other mmo out there.
Now I want to steer clear from the WoW comparisons but it seems Anets loyalty was more to the WoW player base. I think WoW influenced Gw2 direction more than what Gw1 did.

This isn’t true. Anet’s loyalty isn’t to the WoW playerbase. Anet’s loyalty is to keeping the game alive. If you worked on a game for years, and had big plans for it, you’d want to keep it alive too.

In an ideal universe, they could do this by sticking with plan A, but plan A wasn’t working. People really weren’t interested in working just for cosmetic gear…at least not enough of them.

This isn’t personal. Anet didn’t plan for this to happen. They tried it with only cosmetic gear and it didn’t have player retention.

Let me ask you…if you owned a restaurant and you could add dishes or change dishes that would give you a much bigger clientele, would you not change it, just because some people that have been eating there for years might object?

Anet doesn’t owe you anything. You bought a game from them. You played the game. You got value from the game. Anet has some big ideas for Guild Wars 2, but it’s going to take money to make those ideas come true.

Chuo.4238:

Vayne.8563:

How does this affect your game?

To be honest, I’m probably just looking for reasons to give it up. I had years of fun in Guild Wars, and tried pretty much everything that game had to offer. I played quite a few other games as well, but always kept coming back to Guild Wars.

Essentially, most of the reasons that kept me interested in Guild Wars aren’t here in GW2. I realize that they’re trying to make money by appealing to a larger crowd, but for me, that means it’s more like the games I didn’t like, because Guild Wars was better.

I had a great social time in Guild Wars as well. We (my old guildies/alliance mates) are generally disappointed in GW2, and feel it’s kind of sold out on us. Most don’t log on any more. The rest log on rarely. I think our (smallish) guild finally went dead when we realized that the guild missions were going to be more frustrating to unlock and activate than it was really worth. We’re still in touch, but mostly are playing other things until something comes along that grabs us like Guild Wars did.

So yea. I suppose I’m hanging on because of how great a time we had in Guild Wars. I keep hoping that ArenaNet will go back to that. But they’re a very different company now, with different ownership and priorities. And I can see where GW2 could have been great, but they just don’t seem to have the courage to get quite that far outside the box.

Anyway. Whoever had the patience to read that probably is wondering why they bothered.

TL:DR – I guess I’m just looking for reasons to finally leave, now, and one tends to find what one seeks.

I can understand this. If you don’t like the game, you don’t like the game. Nothing wrong with that.

I just think that two, three years down the road, this game will be amazing. But it takes time to make the kind of content that will keep people playing long term.

At any rate, it’s a different game, and those most attached to Guild Wars 1 are likely going to feel the differences keenly.

rpwolverin.2563:

ColinJohanson.2394:

It’s something we’re absolutely aware of and want to address in the future, one of my main characters is an engineer so I feel ya on this one. My poor quaggan backpack is visible like 2% of the time I play as I kit swap, never mind my weapon skins.

We’re currently focusing our engineering (programmers, not guys with net guns) resources that could work on solutions to issues like kits/skins on major systems that address issues higher priority and wider reaching like lag in large battles, LFG, custom arenas, spectator mode and so on but this issue is absolutely on our radar.

As always, please post your ideas of what you’d like to see solution wise, we love to see the fun ideas y’all come up with too!

As much as I appreciate the honesty and truthfulness, you can’t sit there and tell me that they can’t put 1 single person on a project like this I mean its BIG when 1 class simply does not feel like grinding out a legendary because it will never be seen. I mean we already get the short end of the stick when it comes to being that class that nobody wants to run dungeons with ect…at least bring it up to the team that this is a BIG issue and the engineering community isn’t gonna put up with this for much longer…

I love everything else about gw2 just wish this would get fixed…I mean just make the bombs/grenades blowup with confetti or something

This is why I think Anet shouldn’t answer these types of threads. For every person who appreciates it, another is annoyed by it.

Chuo.4238:

Vayne.8563:

Chuo.4238:

I guess I have to add the new leaderboards to my list of disappointments. In fact, I think this was the straw that finally drove me away.

I haven’t logged in for more than a couple minutes in over a week. No desire to play anymore.

I liked my anonymity. Thanks, again, ArenaNet, for making your game more like WoW.

Guild Wars 1 had leaderboards in challenge missions. I’m not very sure how this is different. It had a ladder for guilds too.

The stuff that WoW has is far more/completely different from this. This is relatively harmless compared to something like gear-score.

Particularly if you’re a PvP, you need something to compete FOR. PvPers have been asking for this. Even in Guild Wars 1 this would have been welcomed by the PvP crowd.

Frankly, I could have done without the achievement leaderboard, but I don’t see why it’s an issue for anyone.

The difference, for me, is for whom it’s designed to appeal. The challenge missions, guild ladders, and the scrolling “XXXX has won a battle in the Hall of Heroes” were all to inspire competitive group play, and it was the group entities that were recognized.

When you devolve to individual competition, you’re now appealing to a lower standard of human behaviour. Instead of encouraging teamplay, you’re promoting the individual, and discouraging people from acting together. Moreover, you’re appealing to the obsessive types, and rewarding such behaviour.

Now I realize that nobody is making anyone do anything here, but I’d much rather see things that encourage teambuilding and cooperation, rather than one-uppsmanship. It’s a big turnoff. I can get that crap anywhere.

I soloed some of the challenge missions and got on the leader board. At least in some of the cases, you didn’t need a guild to do them. They still had the leaderboard with your name up.

If you were obsessive, you could keep looking at that, and keep trying to stay on the leaderboard. I’m not obsessive, at least not in that way, and so I don’t keep trying.

I’m in the top 1000 for achievement points, but I don’t expect to stay there, because I don’t think it matters. Others will, however get some kind of end game out of this. This isn’t really bad for the game, it’s good for the game.

Anet has been trying to build a game where people can do different things depending on what they like. This isn’t any different. People that like this sort of thing can now do this.

How does this affect your game?

mjharrison.3209:

JahRo.6432:

Guild Wars 1 was pretty crappy at first, if I remember correctly, but after all of the expansions and patches it was great.

What made GW1 great IMO is the number of different ways you could build your character. GW2 is really a lame duck by comparison. No build depth at all because of how underwhelming most of the traits are. The rigidity of weapon skills also means that just 1 or 2 weak skills render whole weapons useless. Anet have proven themselves to be pretty hopeless at balancing as well.

IMO the game seems to be going nowhere, a hollow, cynical shell around a cash shop.

What ruined Guild Wars 1 for a lot of players was the complete inability to balance the professions because of the overabundance of skills in combination with the dual profession.

For some that was a great thing. Others left the game because of it.

Paulytnz.7619:

Fritz.5026:

If they want to promote their game they should look into television advertisements instead of free weekends.

Sure it may cost a significant amount more, but it has been proven time and again that people will buy ANYTHING if its advertised on television with key phrases such as “the best of the year” and “the one everyone is talking about.”

just saying.

Or they could do what most other game companies do – have their demos not exclusive to certain times or “special weekends”.

People like to use google and such to find new games which could very easily lead them to GW2. But with there being no “real” demo mode/version all the time I am sure many walk on by without looking beyond the website for this very reason.

Free demos end up getting abused by gold selling/spamming companies. That’s why a lot of non-free MMOs don’t have one. Rift didn’t have a freely downloadable demo either. In fact, quite a few haven’t.

Iridiana.9078:

Bad.
Gem Store was meant to offer items which do not advantage players who can pay.
Now welcome to the pay to win!

You mean a guy who buys a pick for $10 real money at the gem store (which you could get with in game gold anyway if you really wanted it), can now far stuff that you can farm also by buying a pick with silver.

A pick that will take a year or two to break even on for most people?

Over-react much?

Chuo.4238:

I guess I have to add the new leaderboards to my list of disappointments. In fact, I think this was the straw that finally drove me away.

I haven’t logged in for more than a couple minutes in over a week. No desire to play anymore.

I liked my anonymity. Thanks, again, ArenaNet, for making your game more like WoW.

Guild Wars 1 had leaderboards in challenge missions. I’m not very sure how this is different. It had a ladder for guilds too.

The stuff that WoW has is far more/completely different from this. This is relatively harmless compared to something like gear-score.

Particularly if you’re a PvP, you need something to compete FOR. PvPers have been asking for this. Even in Guild Wars 1 this would have been welcomed by the PvP crowd.

Frankly, I could have done without the achievement leaderboard, but I don’t see why it’s an issue for anyone.

nirvana.8245:

Im on JQ. I have the exact opposite problem. I like to travel alone. I only group up with family members when they play. Instead I have people constantly spamming me party invites and asking me if I want to play with them. Please leave me alone :p Im a grumpy old man and I just want to farm my heavy moldy bags and have an early night!

You and the OP should trade servers. lol

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

You are going to find that in pugs, pvp of any sort, in any game.

Frostgorge generally has more players, events get done, and the 80s end drops as well as any other 80 zone. Cove and Orr are just abandoned content generally.

Orr is pretty busy on Tarnished Coast…at least there’s usually people running around. Hell, I even see people in Sunset Cove on my server.

nachtnebel.9168:

Vayne.8563:

Minion of Vey.4398:

With the nature of gw2 I don’t really see what raising the level cap would do other than make you regear.

Unless they add new, higher level traits which you’d be able to unlock by leveling. I know I wouldn’t mind more trait points.

You don’t need a higher level cap for new traits, just add a one or two balanced traits for each existing tier and you increase the build variety by a huge amount.

Increasing the level cap never adds to a game, it just forces the players to grind again.

Actually I wasn’t think of adding just the third tier of traits, but an entirely new fourth tier. I might be too ambitious though. lol

zenleto.6179:

Vayne.8563:

SolidTx.3249:

I am, admittedly, a bit surprised. I never realized that gear progression could be viewed so negatively. I see how you are looking at it – but hopefully you can respect another point of view.

We think of gear progression as a good thing. I guess the difference then comes down to a capitalistic vs communistic game design philosophy. Said differently some want a game that reward their players with better possessions and items based on their achievements, hard work, dedication and comittment.

The same game, I guess, can be seen as elitist, requiring it players to work in order to get something that people feel should be communal and given to all freely.

And I don’t see GW2 at lvl 80 as a sandbox.. Once a player has exotic gear, map completion and a legendary what is there to do? Honestly, we can’t figure it out.

The problem is that many players game from Guild Wars 1, like me, and are in fact fans of that game. You maxed out your gear very early in Guild Wars 1 and NEVER got better gear after that. In fact. if you maxed out your gear in Prophecies, the first game, you never had to upgrade your gear again in any of the other three Guild Wars 1 games.

It made for better gaming in my opinion.

In Guild Wars 2, when ascended gear was introduced, a decent portion of the population actually walked away from Guild Wars 2. I don’t think Anet is willing to open this can of worms again.

Now I understand what all the moaning about Ascended gear is all about. I started after it was introduced so it’s always been in the game for me. That’s a bit of a shame really.

I understand why Anet did it, and I sort of felt they had to, but they made it a very gradual upgrade, so that it didn’t resemble gear grind in other games (even though people still call it such). In addition, when it was first released, Anet made the mistake of making the fractals the only way to get it, which kitten people off.