Stop being offensive. Not the first time I’ve had to tell you this and not the last. I DO think before I speak. You probably do too, and I’d never insult you by suggesting otherwise. That’s one main difference between us. You must use personal insults for some reason. Do you think it makes your arguments stronger?
Lol, what are you my dad?
“Yes daddy, I’ll stop being so mean on the interwebz, please don’t spank me…”
C’mon now, you are so full of yourself you think you can tell people how to act now?
I don’t care if my posts get removed. You think you are god’s gift to MMO forums and crusade against any little bit of negativity even if it has merit.
Stop trying to control everyone and using your pointless arguments to tell everyone they’re wrong. No one cares about your guild or how you play the game. Get over yourself. Seriously.
I’ll bet if you looked, you’d find negative threads I haven’t posted in at all. Of course, you haven’t looked, because you don’t do that kind of research. You just make snide statements that are demonstrably false.
For example you claim I’m a fan boy, but I’ve come out against Anet for some of the stuff they’re doing. I just don’t rant about it, because that serves no purpose. And I don’t personally insult people who disagree with me. I argue with them, without name calling.
Yes, I’m a fan of this game…because the other MMOs out there are mostly terrible to me. If that’s a problem for you, I’m not sorry about that. I won’t apologize for liking a game. Nor should I have to.
It’s true that there’s only about 15-20 people in the thread acknowledging the imbalance of the classes, but there’s only about 2 people (you included) in here saying that everything is fine. That test-sample alone should at least hint something to you.
Yes, it says you’re using a test sample of the Complaint Line Open Mic.
Wrong. I never said everything was fine. I said that it’s not the big deal people are making it out to be. That’s two different things. I’ve also said that it’s about the same here as it is in most startup MMOs at around this stage of development. That doesn’t translate to everything’s fine. It’s more like everything’s on schedule and that’s not particularly a bad thing.
More than 2 people in this thread have come out and said it’s not that bad, which is what I’ve been saying. A lot more. If you look at those for the OP and those against the OP, you’ll find it is split with roughly 12 people saying variations of what I’m saying and roughly 12 people agreeing with the OP.
Unless you decide to not count stuff that should be counted. This 20 to 2 count is completely disingenuous, since I actually DID count. I omitted the ones that commented but didn’t really pick a side and I was pretty lenient about giving your side their fair share.
You should try it again, and really look at what people are saying.
I don’t believe Anet is ever going to equalize the damage between professions.
Evidence?
I also don’t believe that DPS is the only thing that counts. I understand the mindset that does believe this, but it’s still only a matter of opinion and play style.
If it’s a matter of opinion and play style, why do you care so much so as to visit these types of threads and dismiss our opinions and play styles as the exaggerated, pointless whining of a small minority?
There are always people out there who want to play a profession because of the feel of the profession rather than the numbers the profession generates.
Have you read this thread? People want both: they like the feel of some professions and want their contributions to damage output to be on par with other classes. You trade in false dichotomies.
And because Anet does tend to factor in other considerations, such as survivability and utility, it’s unlikely that they’ll equalize damage.
Please explain. Specifics and details would be helpful. (Stories of your subjective enjoyment playing various classes do not count.)
Anet has NEVER equalized the damage between professions. I don’t believe they’re going to start now.
A lot of things I say about the game, generally, comes from years of reading, not only patchnotes, but explanations from devs of why changes were made. This was done in Guild Wars 1, and I really wish they’d do the same in Guild Wars 2. But for years, every time a major patch came out, there was an explanation on the Guild Wars 1 Wiki of why those changes were made. If you’re asking me for EVIDENCE that they’re not going to do this, I can’t give it to you. Because my educated guess is based on watching what the company did and how they explained it for years. How about you come back to me in a year or two and tell me if they did it. They won’t because they never have. It’s not how Anet thinks.
And yeah, I have read the thread…all of it. And I see a handful of people complaining. That’s all. That’s what I see. Are you saying this handful of people complaining is representative of the whole gaming community? If so, evidence?
Anet has it’s own standards which it works too. In Guild Wars 1, many of the same things were said in forums, and much of it Anet ignored as well. And some people left over it. And some people stayed.
You guys are all very smart, I’m sure of that. But that doesn’t mean you have a monopoly on an opinion or that you know what’s best for the game. If I was going to put money on Anet’s way or your way…I’d probably bet on Anet.
That’s what I don’t understand about you. You think having read many patch notes, MMO forums, and watching dev interviews on YouTube have made you an expert on all things MMO (it hasn’t). You’re basing your “educated” guess on what ANet did in the past with GW1, when ANet went a completely different direction with GW2 than they did with GW1.
It’s true that there’s only about 15-20 people in the thread acknowledging the imbalance of the classes, but there’s only about 2 people (you included) in here saying that everything is fine. That test-sample alone should at least hint something to you.
Haven’t you figured it out yet? He knows more than everyone. If he thinks you’re wrong he uses his own made up conjecture to prove he’s right and if you deny it he says that only a couple people are complaining and that is the nature of forums.
He doesn’t even want to use logic to talk about the game. He has reached level 80 fanboy.
I haven’t used any conjecture to prove anyone wrong or right. Show me where I said the professions don’t need some tweaking? Show me where I said that there aren’t some builds or groups that are more efficient than others. I’ll wait here.
What I said was it’s pretty much like this in every game, and that’s part of what happens in MMOs. If you think I’m making this conjecture up, then I don’t know what to tell you.
I’ve invited you to go visit other MMO forums and check for yourself.
GW1 didn’t need classes to have balanced power because you rolled in groups of 8 and certain classes did things other classes can’t do.
In GW2 with solo player mode the #1 mode, they need to balance damage, because there aren’t 8 man teams.
Think before you speak Vayne.
Stop being offensive. Not the first time I’ve had to tell you this and not the last. I DO think before I speak. You probably do too, and I’d never insult you by suggesting otherwise. That’s one main difference between us. You must use personal insults for some reason. Do you think it makes your arguments stronger?
I disagree with what you’ve said about solo play vs. team play. In fact, the whole concept of balance is actually more concerning to most people on the team play end, particularly with the fact that certain groups aren’t welcomed in parties.
Many if not most of the people who solo play don’t compare themselves to other professions, if they have a profession they like. If they kill something slower it’s not bothering anybody. If anything solo players are more relaxed about stuff like this than team players.
@Guns
Hey I have a challenge for you, since you accused me of not reading this thread. It’s very simple. Look at each post, list each name, and put a check next to them if they’re really troubled by the balance in this game and put an X next to their name if they think it’s basically okay or not that big a problem.
What you’ll find is that this thread is pretty much split 50/50 down the line. 50% of the people think there’s a problem and 50% of the people think there isn’t.
Keep in mind some of the people who think there aren’t problems are people playing the professions that everyone says are broken.
You accuse me of not reading the thread, but I’ve read it. Have you?
What I’ve been saying all along is true. A percentage of the people think that there’s a problem and a percentage doesn’t. It all comes down to your play style, as I said before. And there are more people out there than you believe who don’t see this as a problem.
The thing is, most people come to forums to complain (if you don’t admit at least that much there’s not much to talk about). So if half the people are saying it’s not much of a problem…maybe it’s not that much of a problem.
I think everyone agrees some changes need to be made. I don’t think everyone agrees the game balance is in the dire straits you think it is, nor do I think that everyone thinks that Anet isn’t doing anything about it.
And that link in the imperfect balance was worth watching btw.
I don’t believe Anet is ever going to equalize the damage between professions.
Evidence?
I also don’t believe that DPS is the only thing that counts. I understand the mindset that does believe this, but it’s still only a matter of opinion and play style.
If it’s a matter of opinion and play style, why do you care so much so as to visit these types of threads and dismiss our opinions and play styles as the exaggerated, pointless whining of a small minority?
There are always people out there who want to play a profession because of the feel of the profession rather than the numbers the profession generates.
Have you read this thread? People want both: they like the feel of some professions and want their contributions to damage output to be on par with other classes. You trade in false dichotomies.
And because Anet does tend to factor in other considerations, such as survivability and utility, it’s unlikely that they’ll equalize damage.
Please explain. Specifics and details would be helpful. (Stories of your subjective enjoyment playing various classes do not count.)
Anet has NEVER equalized the damage between professions. I don’t believe they’re going to start now.
A lot of things I say about the game, generally, comes from years of reading, not only patchnotes, but explanations from devs of why changes were made. This was done in Guild Wars 1, and I really wish they’d do the same in Guild Wars 2. But for years, every time a major patch came out, there was an explanation on the Guild Wars 1 Wiki of why those changes were made. If you’re asking me for EVIDENCE that they’re not going to do this, I can’t give it to you. Because my educated guess is based on watching what the company did and how they explained it for years. How about you come back to me in a year or two and tell me if they did it. They won’t because they never have. It’s not how Anet thinks.
And yeah, I have read the thread…all of it. And I see a handful of people complaining. That’s all. That’s what I see. Are you saying this handful of people complaining is representative of the whole gaming community? If so, evidence?
Anet has it’s own standards which it works too. In Guild Wars 1, many of the same things were said in forums, and much of it Anet ignored as well. And some people left over it. And some people stayed.
You guys are all very smart, I’m sure of that. But that doesn’t mean you have a monopoly on an opinion or that you know what’s best for the game. If I was going to put money on Anet’s way or your way…I’d probably bet on Anet.
I don’t believe Anet is ever going to equalize the damage between professions. I also don’t believe that DPS is the only thing that counts. I understand the mindset that does believe this, but it’s still only a matter of opinion and play style.
There are always people out there who want to play a profession because of the feel of the profession rather than the numbers the profession generates.
And because Anet does tend to factor in other considerations, such as survivability and utility, it’s unlikely that they’ll equalize damage.
What they will more likely do is try to make the utility of other professions more useful but this is a dangerous move, particularly because they don’t want to create situations where one professions is required to clear content.
Right now, any group and clear content, some can just do it more efficiently. I’m not so sure that that’s a total problem from Anet’s point of view.
Plenty of women love dark fantasy and science fiction and gaming. In fact, it’s gotten to a point at science fiction conventions where there are more women than men.
I think you’re so right about that… if you want to draw me to a game purely by graphics alone, you would make a Warhammer 40K Inquisition MMO. I loved Space Marine but I couldn’t play it because I kept stopping to watch my avatar stomp the heads off of orcs and ended up getting killed.
Actually I think women have it easier than guys in this regard. We can play Hello Kitty if we’re attracted to it, and we can play Space marine if we’re attracted to it and no-one will seriously question our sexuality. I feel for the guys that are attracted to things that have been labelled feminine. My man still insists that I make him watch Project Runway, even though he’s obviously straighter than a ruler.
I have it real easy. I don’t really care what people think of me. And I like a lot of stuff that “real men” (whatever the hell they are) wouldn’t approve of. In fact, I generally get along better with women than men. I tend to be more sensitive, I tend to be more verbal and I tend to be more communicative, all things generally associated with women.
I can cry while watching a dog food commercial too.
I write poetry. I’ve written romances.
Yeah, I’m a man’s man. lol
My advice to you is to find a guild of like-minded players. It really is the best way to approach the game. Even soloing to level, it’s better to have a guild to chat with. It makes some things that might be tedious otherwise more entertaining and it also provides you with a base of people to either help out or at least offer information.
There have been a lot of changes in the game. Some people don’t like those changes and some people do. The game seems to be doing well though, so, I guess at least a bunch of people like the changes.
I’m not sure when you stopped playing, but there are updates every month. For me, this is the best MMO out at this time.
For me it’s simple, “Why are the classes so hit and miss?” It doesn’t matter what you play.
All of the content, even if you are an average player, is simplistic in design and level of effort to overcome.
The difference comes down to the only metric more aggressive players can come by to justify their “skills;” Time.
If we took another class we could beat this dungeon in 10 minutes vice 13. Who cares.
People have migrated to a simple game; with simple mechanics; and are trying to drive some sort of measure of worth to their gameplay. When time is the only result you can measure; since you don’t really progress in gear with any measure of significance; you start watching the stop watch.
“It’s costing me money if only get in 5 runs in an hour vice 6.” Well, that is the fault of the designers making you run the same dungeon 1000 times to get … a 1% ring upgrade… not the ranger and his pet.
You are a smart person. I think it’s hilarious the balance team discusses how terrible it would be if ranger pets could tank a boss yet they’re totally cool with the two guardian two warrior and mesmer easy mode faceroll rofl easiness.
Not sure what the devs said or didn’t say on this, as I haven’t seen the quote, but I think having an AI tanking a boss is a mistake no matter what else was discussed. I’m also not sure the two things stated have anything to do with each other.
I don’t. I do capitalize the letter where there would have been a period before though lol. So yeah idk I guess I should use them in chat.
I think you probably should use periods in chat Seeing a capital letter without one would look really weird to me Don’t you think? lol
My wife and I play Guild Wars 2 together. Before this we played Rift together and before that we played Guild Wars 1 together.
Even when I gave up on Rift as hopeless, my wife continued to play…and raid. All by herself. I had no interest in playing the game, but she did.
My wife doesn’t really go for cute and cuddly (clearly because she married me). She prefers dark and dire. She was a big fan of Ultima 4 before I ever met her, and that was a long, long time ago.
Plenty of women love dark fantasy and science fiction and gaming. In fact, it’s gotten to a point at science fiction conventions where there are more women than men.
It’s time to take our heads out of the dark ages.
I often. use periods. in sentences.
Wow, it was hard to type that. lol
As someone who has edited for other people, typing without punctuation is actually work. The only thing that prevents me from going back and proofreading my posts is the knowledge that if I did, I’d have a much lower post count.
On the other hand, some people would be completely in favor of that. lol
.Snip
No neither you or Vayne.8563 get what I’m saying.
Atheist = Convinced that there are no gods, many also seek to prove there are no gods. The certainty that there are no gods and the seeking to prove it makes it a belief, since no one fully knows, so all they can do is believe they are right and that there is proof. Just like religious people have no clue if what they believe in is true.
Agnostic = Believes that there is some form of higher being(s), but they arent sure what they really believe in. They havent found the religion that fits their way of thinking. Many never find a religion to settle with.
Monotheist = Dedicated to a religion of one single god. It doesnt mean other religions arent accepted, except for a few select ones we know of. Some even welcome people of other creeds into their holy houses, even if they arent there to praise their god.
Polytheists = Dedicated to a pantheon of gods (Norse, Greek/Roman, Native American, Hindu etc.). Often very open minded towards other religions, could be due to the fact they already worship many different gods.
Unbelievers/Non-Believers = They just dont believe, they are just regular people that dont care if someone is religious.
Atheists annoy me as much as bible thumpers and everyone else that tries to convince you that they are right.
And regarding Thor and Loki. They arent demigods in the myth, maybe in the Marvel stories, but not in the lore. A demigod is usually a supernatural being with one parent who is a god and the other a human. Thor is a pureblood aesir and Loki is of giants blood.
I’m the open minded kind myself, I see the possibility that there might be something higher. I see it as this, if there is one type of god, there are all types of gods. Every culture is different in some way, why shouldnt the gods be. I also dont bother with prayers, temples, offerings or anything else. If my gods are there on the final day so be it, if not, then atleast I didnt waste time in my life with unanswered prayers, being in temples or sacrificial offerings.
edit: This is also why I dont understand the OPs point of view. He/she just seems to try too hard to be an atheist when he takes it to an entertainment level. It’s ok as there is no pro or against propaganda, aslong as it’s fictional religions. I just wonder what movies, books, music or other games he avoids if he dislikes even fictional religion.
Most superheroes have god like powers and would most likely be described as gods if they were written a few hundred years back. Thor and Loki a prime example, perfectly fitting as superheroes/villains.
edit2: Missed the comment earlier in a post about Hitler germany. Hitlers party members were far from atheists, they were very much the oposite. It was a very christian, something germans could relate to, an easy way to get the people to hate jews. Then there was the Thule organization, some mumbojumbo mysticism department with a mission to find old treasures (yes like seen in Indiana Jones, Hellboy and so on) with special powers. Wagner was also a highly liked composer due to his works having germanic themes.
This has later crossed over into the white power movement in many countries, with the Faith, Folk and Family mindset, white christians are the only ones who should be allowed to live according to them, the rest are just scum of the earth. Like a european KKK, they just dont waste so many bed sheets. Only differance is, instead of the extra love for germanic myths, they see it as impure pagan filth, a mistake done by Hitler putting those faiths on par with christianity. Germanic symbols are common within some groups anyways, but those dont follow the FFF ways.
I get what you’re saying. Except that atheists don’t share a common belief, so it can’t be a religion. A religion is a set of shared beliefs, not a set of disbelief in one single thing.
For example, a guy who’s an existentialist, doesn’t believe in anything and might also be said to be an atheist. Another atheist may believe in evolution. Another Athiest might believe there is no god, but doesn’t know anything about evolution.
You can’t characterize a religion as a lack of belief in something. Well you can, but it’s not really what the word religion means.
Even at it’s root re and legion. Legion means to bind together. Atheists aren’t bound together. They don’t generally have places where they meet, rituals they perform, or even a common book they read. Calling it a religion makes no sense.
Some classes seem to be almost a “must have” (Warrior, Mesmer), while others seem to be considered useless (Ranger, Necro). Has ANet even considered buffs to the “lesser” classes?
It could be that I just have a shallow view of the classes, but I don’t think that’s the case. The “good” classes seem to be sought out, while the others are usually dismissed or kicked from groups.
I play a Zerk Warrior, and don’t have even the smallest issue getting invited to groups, while on my Necro, I couldn’t get a group to save my life. It’s really discouraging to not be able to play the class you want.
Necros are useful, can’t say the same for rangers.
Today we beat Arah with three rangers, a guardian and a mesmer. It was one of the smoothest arah runs I’d ever had.
I feel like half the posts in this entire forum are Vayne telling people that trust me, bad classes are fine (because…reasons?) and it doesn’t matter if they’re bad. Over and over and over again, all day, every day.
I never said bad classes are fine. I said bad classes don’t exist…except MAYBE engineer. The problem is I play with engineers in the guild and they do fine. Rangers are NOT as broken as people say they are. They’re perfectly viable.
Can they use some love. Sure. That’s not the same thing as saying they’re completely broken.
When someone says a profession is completely broken because another profession can do more DPS, that’s when I peak my nose in.
But maybe you haven’t noticed all the other people saying they’re doing just fine on those professions.
from my experience engineers have a variety of builds and is a very strong class, though underused and not well known by the community, because of how they used to be when the game just came out.
Necro and ranger are far weaker.
I’m convinced that engineers are great in WvW and PvP, but need some help in PVe. But again, not much help. They just need….something.
Like, I mean, right now it isn’t a serious issue because the game is new and there’s only the few people who will shun certain professions. But, in the past in other games this is also true. Eventually it will get to the point where everyone has this “elitist” knowledge and a good majority will follow it like blind sheep and shun professions because “everyone else is doing it”.
Now, “you” may not have an issue with it. Even “your guild” might not and still play what they want. But, the problem is, those who play weaker professions for fun are definitely in the minority.
It will change. It always changes. In every game. This is the pattern.
1. A meta evolved. Something becomes more efficient.
2. Some people only want to do something the most efficient way so they start excluding people who don’t do or have X from a group.
3. Something changes and suddenly that thing doesn’t work as good as it once did.
4. A new meta evolves and it begins again.
Business as usual in every MMO. Yes, it has to change…and it will. If you don’t think it won’t, you don’t know Anet very well, because they kept changing things in Guild Wars 1 as this stuff evolved.
In Guild Wars 1 there was a point in time when all you saw was Ursan Rank 8. Everyone wanted one. Then the nerfed Ursan. Then there was a point where everyone wanted a perma-sin who could be permanently invulnerable to damage. How about in DOA? Remember when everyone wanted a rit with Destructive was Glaive or an imabgon paragon. And if you didn’t run one of those, well, it was a lot harder to get into groups. A lot harder.
I eventually made an imbagon just to get into groups. I didn’t love it, but I did it. Because I had to.
I don’t like this crap any more than you do. But I’m convinced it will always be with us.
(edited by Vayne.8563)
Vayne I thought we were talking about skill balance and GW2, not raids in WoW. What are you rambling about man?
Can’t you see this game is really poorly developed around 5 man teams? Look at sPvP: thieves and elementalists. Dungeons have warriors and mesmers.
I’m not an elitist, but I can tell you that I have quit a couple dungeon groups simply because they plain suck. I don’t know if it is their professions but when it takes 5 minutes to kill the slave master in CoF p1 there is a problem.
You’re assumption you can play this game any way is wrong, unless you like not being efficient.
Then I’m not efficient. That’s all. You care about running dungeons as fast as human possible. A percentage of the population cares about the same thing. A percentage of the population doesn’t. If all you care about is efficiency, you’re right. I don’t care about efficiency and there are many of us out there. I’m not saying more or less, but enough to play together and have fun.
In any game with five professions, there will be a most efficient combination. People ALWAYS find the most efficient combination. You talk like other games don’t experience this phenomena. It’s so prevalent I can’t believe you think this is something to comment on. It happened often in Guild Wars 1 even. People figured out a way to do things fast and that’s the builds they wanted to do those things. Why is it such a big deal here?
You’re so quick to put words in my mouth. I don’t care about running dungeons as fast as possible. In the other hand, I like to complete them in a decent amout of time.
Oh Vayne, you are vain.
I don’t need to be the most efficient, but to not be somewhat efficient is a bit dumb don’t you think?
Some people love to walk from one point to another as fast as they can. Some people like to stroll. Some people have fun with content and playing with people, some people just want to get it done. What is so hard to understand here?
Yes, you want it somewhat efficiently. I don’t care. Many people don’t care. Why do you care that we don’t care? Someone said that most groups can run CoF path 1 in ten minutes. A speed clear group can run it in 6.5. That 3.5 minute difference is only a big deal if you’re doing multiple runs. Many runs. Farming.
Not everyone puts a stopwatch on their entertainment. Stop trying to tell me that the problem is bigger than it is…. it’s not.
Every single MMORPG has a problem with one build or one profession or one method being more efficient. Then certain people who play for efficiency will use that method and thus exclude people who don’t care about efficiency. This is business as usual, not something that needs a ton of attention.
Do you really think when they make whatever changes they make, there won’t be a different most efficient method and we won’t see the same kinds of posts.
Go do a bit of research. Go to other MMO forums and read them. Just read them. See what other people are saying about other games. This is the same complaint I read on every MMO forum.
Is there work to be done on balancing. Sure. Is there a major problem here? No more than in any other MMORPG.
I feel like half the posts in this entire forum are Vayne telling people that trust me, bad classes are fine (because…reasons?) and it doesn’t matter if they’re bad. Over and over and over again, all day, every day.
I never said bad classes are fine. I said bad classes don’t exist…except MAYBE engineer. The problem is I play with engineers in the guild and they do fine. Rangers are NOT as broken as people say they are. They’re perfectly viable.
Can they use some love. Sure. That’s not the same thing as saying they’re completely broken.
When someone says a profession is completely broken because another profession can do more DPS, that’s when I peak my nose in.
But maybe you haven’t noticed all the other people saying they’re doing just fine on those professions.
Vayne I thought we were talking about skill balance and GW2, not raids in WoW. What are you rambling about man?
Can’t you see this game is really poorly developed around 5 man teams? Look at sPvP: thieves and elementalists. Dungeons have warriors and mesmers.
I’m not an elitist, but I can tell you that I have quit a couple dungeon groups simply because they plain suck. I don’t know if it is their professions but when it takes 5 minutes to kill the slave master in CoF p1 there is a problem.
You’re assumption you can play this game any way is wrong, unless you like not being efficient.
Then I’m not efficient. That’s all. You care about running dungeons as fast as human possible. A percentage of the population cares about the same thing. A percentage of the population doesn’t. If all you care about is efficiency, you’re right. I don’t care about efficiency and there are many of us out there. I’m not saying more or less, but enough to play together and have fun.
In any game with five professions, there will be a most efficient combination. People ALWAYS find the most efficient combination. You talk like other games don’t experience this phenomena. It’s so prevalent I can’t believe you think this is something to comment on. It happened often in Guild Wars 1 even. People figured out a way to do things fast and that’s the builds they wanted to do those things. Why is it such a big deal here?
All bow to lord Vayne, Protector of Guild Wars 2. Teach us lord with your anecdotal evidence and superior MMO knowledge, for I am not worthy of my own opinions.
Common knowledge, repeated over the years by game devs isn’t anecdoetal, unless you consider game devs not to be experts in the game. Someone else posted a Ghost Crawler quote elsewhere about the percentage of WoW players who finished high level raids. The percentage was 5%. Do you really think I’m making this stuff up?
I’ve been following not just MMOs but the business of MMOs for years. I’ve educated myself. You’ve played Guild Wars 1 and Guild Wars 2. Maybe we should bow to your superior knowledge.
Anyone who’s played other games has watched hard content get nerfed for the casual crowd, so much so it’s almost become a meme. This isn’t something I should need to prove. It’s something you should know, and if you don’t, your MMO education is lacking.
As for protecting Guild Wars 2, I’m against hyperbole generally and will call people on it, in real life as well as on forums, for the reason of it obscuring truth. It doesn’t matter to me if you like that, or you don’t.
What does matter to me is that the other side of the story gets told.
The problem with adding actual weapons to the chests, as someone has suggested, or the chance for a precusor, is that people will see Guild Wars 2 as p2w which is even a worse look than just putting skins.
No, gear should never be found in the Black Lion Trader, only skins.
No point in arguing with Vayne. He and his guild think this is the best game ever and flawless. If you disagree he and his guil prove otherwise and speak for the majority. An his years of MMO playing make him the authority on MMO’s.
On a serious note, the classes and balance in this game are very poorly balanced because most of the game is balanced for solo, not group, play. As such, groups may never get the real balancing they deserve. This is especially apparent in dungeons and sPvP.
I’ve not only said this isn’t the best game ever, I’ve actually said it’s not. You can look on the thread titled Guild Wars 2 is the best game ever. It’s not. It’s my favorite MMO to date, mostly because I didn’t like MMOs. I’ve also said its’ a good game with a potential to be a great game. So your claim that I think this is the best game ever is not only false, but you should have known better.
I also never said I spoke for the majority. I only say that the hard core element is a minority. That’s been true in pretty much every MMO except perhaps Eve. That’s I’m not sure about. But in WoW, Rift, Lotro, DDO, most of the players aren’t hard core and don’t clear the hardest content. I’m pretty sure this was also true in Guild Wars 1.
Finally, I don’t feel the responsibility to correct everyone. I feel an obligation to tell the other side of the story, when people are either over-stating or misrepresenting things.
If you guys don’t like it, good. It doesn’t change the circumstances, or my reactions to them.
the holy trinity of tank/healer/dps has been replaced by mesmer/guardian/warrior
With one exception. In other games that have the trinity, you MUST have a healer and a tank. In Guild Wars 2, I have done dungeons without a mesmer, warrior or guardian present. It’s actually fun and interested.
We’ve done dungeons in odd groups just for fun, sometimes. As long as you can clear content with other professions, it’s not really a trinity.
Holy smokes…a comment. You go, Colin! Glad to hear you guys are working on that stuff, particularly the LFG tool. I might not use it much myself, but it’ll make a lot of people happy.
I can’t wait for the warrior nerf. It’s going to be entertaining as hell.
Warriors, of course, do not need a nerf. They are an example of a relatively successful class design. It’s rarely a good idea to fight success.
Actually, all you are seeing here is the cultural effects of an emerging trinity at the high-end of dungeon-running. For those who are ‘serious’ about their dungeon-running, they’ve noticed that it’s most efficient to:
1) have an anchor Guardian to run in, grab aggro, and position the mob for the…
2) 3 zerker warriors to burn down while a …
3) Mesmer provides portals, time warp, and off-dps.Because the guardian can’t really tank, he’s just managing aggro through his toughness and presence, you need the highest DPS profession to kill the mob quickly. That would be a zerker warrior. Has nothing to do with necessarily being OP, simply on the burst end of direct damage. (Necros need not apply.)
Because of the game design, damage design, and absence of supported combat roles, you have seen one successful trinity emerge. There is absolutely no problem with warriors because of this and no need to nerf the profession. It’s just humans working with what they have to work with, creating roles to make what they are doing work.
Rather than nerf warriors, my plea to Anet is to take a step back and a step up and ask why this is happening. There is a fix needed here; a warrior nerf isn’t it.
I don’t know what the solution is either, but PVe is already relatively easy. If they buff the other professions up to where warriors are, it’s going to be a joke.
The biggest thing that will address this issue is if Anet puts an in game LFG system. The elitist speed runners can still use third party sites to find each other but the average person will just use in game LFG and get paired with random people.
Anet is working on one. Don’t know when it will be ready, but an LFG feature is definitely in the works.
@Guns and Giblets
It’s not a strawman argument to say most players are casual. And yes, a percentage of casual players will care about balance to some degree. I have never said this game was perfectly balanced. All I said was it’s pretty much in line with where a whole lot of MMOs are during their first year.
Sure balance work needs to be done. I’m not denying this. It’s going slowly and taking time. So?
The only reason anyone would have for rushing balancing is if the game was unplayable as is. The game isn’t unplayable as is, since lots of people play it.
If you really really feel you need to play a warrior to get into a dungeon group…roll a warrior. But others have said it’s not true. And with the exception of a couple of dungeon paths, it’s not even most efficient. I spend half my life rezzing zerker warriors. I’m sure there are very good zerker warriors out there. I’ve even met a few. But it doesn’t seem that these guys are as all powerful as people are saying.
I’m not seeing things as black and white as you think. Balance will be continue to be done in a slow and methodical way. I’m sure Anet didn’t have a meeting and say, okay no more balancing. I’m pretty sure we’d have heard about that.
It’s taking more time than people like and I get that. But there are two sides to every issue. If people are going to come onto these forums and say this is the worst balance I’ve ever seen in any game…and it’s been said…I’m going to say no it’s not.
Does it need work. Sure it does.
But you still can’t go onto the forums of ANY MMORPG, and not find the same types of comments. As I said before, every game can’t be the worst.
I know the sky isn’t falling, but this ad below is rather annoying, and speaks more about the player than his supposed “leet” ability to play GW2:
“LFM Zerk Warrs {{—- Ping Your Gear When YOu enter —-}} p1 Farm, doing several runs, out/in/out/in NO CASUALS!! FULL EXOTIC )--kicking BADDIES”
This is actual a very informative and useful ad. Translated, it reads:
“I’m a bad player who will blame everyone else for my mistakes and kick them from the group. Do not under any circumstances join my party.”
This made me LOL for real.
I’ve never liked soloing with my mesmer, but I love them for party play. Have you considered an ele?
One of the problems with rangers and guardians to a degree, is that they are just too easy to play in PvE. Mind you, at higher level play, guardians can be quite complex, but not in the open world.
Elementalist, due to the attunements, allow you to switch things up a lot more, and thus they might hold your interest. They do great in WvW and SPvP..there are builds out there that make they really hard to kill, as well as really hard to catch.
But the biggest thing about them is the sheer variety of skills they bring to the table. And you have to watch yourself more carefully at lower levels, because you can die if you’re not careful.
I’m not cheap, I’ve bought keys in the past. But if they are going to be something that can only be bought…make it worth my money I work for. If you’re not (which is right now) make the keys a little more abundant…not a lot…but a little.
Logically, if there’s nothing worth getting out of the chest, the keys don’t need to drop. The only reason the keys would need to drop is if the stuff in the chest was must have.
Obviously some people are buying keys, which is probably why they don’t drop more often. Keys help fund the game, which is good for everyone.
Edit: Though I still think RNG skins should NOT be included in BL Chests.
And this is why I come to the forums to protest. Someone comes in, posts a provocative thread title, with a few extra exclamation marks thrown in, only to have other people check it and find it’s not quite actually true.
People need to get some perspective. The sky really isn’t falling.
I know the sky isn’t falling, but this ad below is rather annoying, and speaks more about the player than his supposed “leet” ability to play GW2:
“LFM Zerk Warrs {{—- Ping Your Gear When YOu enter —-}} p1 Farm, doing several runs, out/in/out/in NO CASUALS!! FULL EXOTIC )--kicking BADDIES”
-What is a Zerk Warr? O.o
-Since when are casuals bad at CoF 1? O.o CoF 1 isn’t any badge of hardcore-ness! Many bad players farm CoF 1! (Probably the poster of that ad included… he/she would probably blame anyone else for a few seconds “lost.”)
-Since when playing with freedom = BADDIES? O.o
The above LFG post seems to be posted by an entitled player with a very immature mentality regardless age. Even a serious elitist can just post: LF more Berserker’s Warriors, experienced only, for an extended farm run, will check gear upon joining." No need for pejoratives, or biased, childish stuff.
Yes, I agree that-and from my experience-even the majority isn’t like that person above, though I do feel bad for those who obligue the pseudo-“leet”, leveling up a character from 1-80 JUST to farm CoF 1. Really, just form your own groups, and stop making that party build the norm, rather than the exception (ATM, it has become the norm, at least in appearance.)
It is also the reason the Legendary weapon “status” value is greatly diminished in my eyes. I never think of any Legendary wielder as a “great” player-he/she could be great, have worked hard for it, and be experienced of course, but also just a prolific farmer, someone rich, and/or got lucky at some point. I never begrudge any player for wielding their Legendaries (I may have my own in due time), but I certainly do not consider it any sort of amazing feat at this point. A player proves himself/herself to me by how he/she really plays, and his/her good attitude towards others (I prefer the latter, even), not by how many Legendaries he/she can dual-wield.
Every MMO, every single one of them, has players like this. It’s a side-show, not a big deal unless people choose to focus on it.
So many people from different threads have said they play other professions and have no trouble finding groups. So a few guys that are elitists or speed-runners, or whatever the hell they want to call themselves post something to a sight, you shrug and play the game.
The problem I see here is one of focus. A small percentage of elitists are making headlines and people are stressing about them. I’m trying to calm people down, because it really isn’t a big deal. It’s not as bad as Guild Wars 1 was when you walked into the Temple of Ages. It’s fine.
Every MMORPG in existence suffers from elitists. Just be glad there’s no gear score in this game. lol
If you log in on the leaderboard site, your name will be highlighted as you scroll through the pages. That’s about it though.
I agree with you. I think WvW stuff should just end up in your bag.
Pve mechanic complexity in this game is inexistant. There is not need to cc anything, to dispel anything and so on. Bleed cap also make condition profession like …. ranger, engineer, and necromancer – the irony- less appealing, and let’s not forget how useless conditions are for the moment in pve outside fractal. Pve needs to encourage control and support more. Boss mechanics, in general, should encourage profession to use, for example, poison to control healing, or chill to control a huge cooldown. Dispel should be more relevant. For now, I don’t think those classes you listed are underpowered, the mechanic itself is lacking, and seems to encourage straightfoward dps instead of synergy among the professions.
Note: You guys are missing Vayne point, and making hasty assumptions. It feels like your comments aim to make people uncomfortable. Some of you don’t seem to be able to express your opinion without turning into some kind of “attack”. And as soon as he answers back, you start calling him “hypocritical” (note the quote), and accusing him of repeating himself (God, rly??)..
But hey, if that’s the way you entertain yourself, keep on doing it.
Thanks for the support…but it’s not necessary. There are plenty of lurkers who see what I post and get what I’m saying…and they’re basically the people I’m posting it for.
I know I’m never going to change the mind of the people posting some of this stuff, but I can sure make an effort to make sure that other people out there don’t see these things the same way.
And this is why I come to the forums to protest. Someone comes in, posts a provocative thread title, with a few extra exclamation marks thrown in, only to have other people check it and find it’s not quite actually true.
People need to get some perspective. The sky really isn’t falling.
I’ve been playing solid since launch, all professions lvl 80 and then some, done all content…I’ve maybe seen 1 key drop outside of a quest reward. It’s pretty ridiculous IMO, this should be increased definitely.
I’ve bought maybe 5-15 keys in my past but I won’t anymore. The risk VS the money you put in just isn’t worth it. I’ve been farming keys with new toons as of late and have still gotten squat. I’m fine with the crappy drop rate of chests, that’s the point, but the influx of keys should be increased.
Again, why should they be increased?
If I’m not mistaken, the contraversial threads are probably the bulk of threads, so it’s no surprise that that’s where they’re going to comment the most. And taking time to thank someone for saying something nice for a change shouldn’t surprise anyone.
The other threads are generally question threads and if fans answer the question, Anet doesn’t need to dedicate the resources to it.
Provide me statistics that prove your statement, otherwise, I might as well claim that 45% of the GW2’s playerbase think COD is a better game, 34.67% Plan on quitting to play Runescpae and rest of the people are bots.
Actually my information comes from following some of the transcripts from MMO developer convention panels, where the developers talk about all sorts of interesting things. You should see if you can dig some of those up.
It’s not my job to research MMOs for you. Someone produces a Ghost Crawler quote about how few people ever do the hardest content in WoW. He put it at 5%. There are quotes I’ve bought up in the past from Scott Hartsman from Rift.
In every single MMORPG, at least every theme park one, all you hear is hard core players complaining about how the game gets dumbed down and everything gets made easier. Why? Because people complain.
Now you seem like a logical lad. Why would game companies keep nerfing the difficulty of stuff if the majority of the playerbase was hard core. There was even a thread where Anet was talking about how hard some of the early Guild Wars 1 content is.
It doesn’t really matter whether you believe me or you don’t believe me. The industry leaders know where their bread is buttered. It’s why they make games like Guild Wars 2.
Do you really really think that if the type of player you were was the money spot, Anet wouldn’t be paying attention to you a lot faster?
I can’t wait for the warrior nerf. It’s going to be entertaining as hell.
Oh please, Im not evan a hardcore player, I don’t play more than 2 hours a day, and I ( I ) hate playing dungeons slowly, I want o finish them as fast as its possible and get the reward.
If you don’t like it and you only prefer “casual” things or the journey or the immerssion , go to Queensdale and listen to the NPCs talking or something.Dont speak for everyone. And your friends or guild doesn’t count as everyone in the game.
I don’t speak for everyone. I don’t even speak for the majority. But after YEARS of MMO playing, I know there are a whole lot more people out there playing just to have fun than racing through content. The run run run crowd may be who you hang out with, but they’re not the majority of players.
I think you’d be stunned about how many people play this game that NEVER do any dungeon.
The problem is, if all you care about is efficiency, you’ll see professions as horribly imbalanced. If all you care about is going out and having a good time and not worrying overly about speed and numbers, you won’t. Your play style is going to have a huge impact on how you see the degree of imbalance.
To say that the game is highly imbalanced because of the efficiency thing may well be all true. But since it doesn’t affect my game at all, or the game of those who play like me…or at least it affects it in relatively minor ways. well to me the game isn’t that unbalanced. It really is a matter of perspective.
By all means if you play a min/max style or like to speed farm, or whatever it is you people do, that’s great. Just keep in mind you’re not necessarily the majority of the gaming population.
It’s not really considered mix/maxing when the difference is so staggering. When a group of 4 Zerk Warriors and a Mesmer kills a boss in 4 seconds while your Ranger/Engineer group kills the same boss in 2-4 minutes, that’s not min/maxing and that’s not a “10% difference” (as you stated before). You may think that’s an exaggeration, but it’s not.
I thought my view of the classes was rather shallow, but you’ve definitely proven me otherwise. You seem to think that most people playing Warriors are bumbling, skill-less idiots, while the Ranger and Engineer in your guild emanate skill like a god. I don’t doubt that your guildies are good, because they probably are. But if your guildies were to take that skill to a Warrior or a Mesmer, your group would fry content. If you’re fine with clearing content 2x or 3x slower, that’s you. Sadly though, most groups aren’t.
How do you know most groups aren’t? Have you polled them? Most SPEED CLEAR group aren’t. Based on the fact that rangers, engies and necros are all saying they have no problems finding groups,. maybe you don’t know as much about the player base as you think. This is a casual game. Hard core farmers are not the rule…they’re the exception.
I play a necro. I have fun playing the necro. We have a couple of guys in my guild who main necros. They love it.
Maybe you’re just too focused on damage.
Ignoring the problem by saying “I love the class” is not the best way of going around it. ALL of my other toons do more in condition damage, do more in regular damage, do more in healing than necros do.
But necros are also very survivable. They have more health than other professions except warriors, they have the extra health bar with death shroud, and they have some great utility. You want to ignore all that you can. I don’t see any point ignoring all that because that’s, get this, PART of balance.
By providing utility and survivability that make the trade off from damage. Some people get this and some people don’t. I get it. My mesmer will NEVER do the damage a warrior does, but the trade off is utility.
You may or may not like that utility, that’s another matter, but just because you don’t doesn’t mean some thought hasn’t been given to balance. In fact, I can’t think of ANY MMO where every profession does the same damage.
I don’t know why you’d expect every profession to do the same damage here.
Engineers are the same way. They sacrifice damage for utility. This seems to be a component of balance that people overlook. Why do they have professions like that? I don’t know. Maybe some people enjoy playing them.
Giving them the same damage output and the same utility and the same high health would make them overpowered. Isn’t that what everyone is complaining about when they bring up warriors?
I simply say not everyone plays games the same way and efficiency, rated very high by some, isn’t rated as highly by others. As long as I can get the job done, I’m quite happy and so are a whole lot of other people.
Do you really think the vast majority of players are min/maxers or they’re worried about killing something 10% slower? I don’t.
Sure there are balance issues. I never said they weren’t. But they’re only the sky is falling type of balance issues for a certain type of player and those type of players, in my opinion, do not hold a majority.
Way to fill up the thread with multiple posts saying the same thing, all of which can be summed as:
1. Me and other people I know like it.
2. If you disagree, you are probably in the minority.I asked for a certain kind of evidence to demonstrate that everything is as fine as you say it is (class analysis with skills, numbers, etc., the kinds of information that’s useful in this situation). You just repeat your anecdotal evidence and add more anecdotal evidence to suggest, without any statistical facts or figures, that people who disagree with you are in the minority.
How is this rational or helpful? All you’re saying is that people who don’t share your preferences should just sit down and or go away. Well, thanks for nothing. Why would you think your personal stories carried so much weight as to be able mollify everyone on the other side of this issue?
Some consistency is also in order: by your standards, you shouldn’t care that we’re raising this issue. If the majority don’t care about min/maxing, then the majority shouldn’t care if we ask the developers to fix our issues, since it won’t negatively affect the majority anyway.
I repeat what I say, because people repeat what they say.
As for statistical analysis, there have been tons of things written about the dominance of the casual player in the genre over the hard core. When you look at the highest level raids in a game like WoW, most of the gaming population never even sees them. Furthermore, there’s a big of common sense involved in thinking that most people who play games play them casually and that’s any game. There are more pro baseball players than amateur ones. Pretty simple really.
People who really get into the number crunching aren’t a minority because I say so. They’re a minority because most people don’t like math that much. Do you really need a poll to know this.
Devs from companies have gone on the record talking about casual players and also solo players. Games thrive on them. If you don’t want to believe it, that’s your own lookout.
So people keep saying, OMG this game is so imbalanced, it’s the worst thing ever. I point out that I’ve seen this on every MMORPG forum I’ve ever logged into. Every single one. While my word on this is annecdotal, it’s easy enough to research for yourself.
So if every single forum for every single MMORPG has had people saying this is the most unbalanced game ever, or no MMO is as badly balanced as this one, they can’t all be right, can they?
I’m not saying there’s not work to do. I’m saying the sky is falling reaction to the work that is going on and will continue to go on changes neither the work nor the state of the game as it stands now.
You have a problem, apparently a serious problem with the game balance. Most people that play this game are still trying to figure out what a condition is. What a boon is. Where to find stuff in LA.
This is also true on most MMOs. You don’t need to be a brain surgeon to know that the average intelligence of gamers isn’t a zillion. The guys who min/max and crunch numbers and really get into that stuff are a very small percentage of the population because intelligent people are a very small percentage.
Yes, it’s a big deal to you, I get it. But that doesn’t make it a big deal.
play all classes. When a class deals so little damage it feels broken (Necro) even a casual feels it. Sure we don’t all want to have the damage of a warrior, but kitten when you deal like no damage at all it’s just not that fun.
I play a necro. I have fun playing the necro. We have a couple of guys in my guild who main necros. They love it.
Maybe you’re just too focused on damage.
I simply say not everyone plays games the same way and efficiency, rated very high by some, isn’t rated as highly by others. As long as I can get the job done, I’m quite happy and so are a whole lot of other people.
Do you really think the vast majority of players are min/maxers or they’re worried about killing something 10% slower? I don’t.
Sure there are balance issues. I never said they weren’t. But they’re only the sky is falling type of balance issues for a certain type of player and those type of players, in my opinion, do not hold a majority.
Way to fill up the thread with multiple posts saying the same thing, all of which can be summed as:
1. Me and other people I know like it.
2. If you disagree, you are probably in the minority.I asked for a certain kind of evidence to demonstrate that everything is as fine as you say it is (class analysis with skills, numbers, etc., the kinds of information that’s useful in this situation). You just repeat your anecdotal evidence and add more anecdotal evidence to suggest, without any statistical facts or figures, that people who disagree with you are in the minority.
How is this rational or helpful? All you’re saying is that people who don’t share your preferences should just sit down and or go away. Well, thanks for nothing. Why would you think your personal stories carried so much weight as to be able mollify everyone on the other side of this issue?
Some consistency is also in order: by your standards, you shouldn’t care that we’re raising this issue. If the majority don’t care about min/maxing, then the majority shouldn’t care if we ask the developers to fix our issues, since it won’t negatively affect the majority anyway.
I repeat what I say, because people repeat what they say.
As for statistical analysis, there have been tons of things written about the dominance of the casual player in the genre over the hard core. When you look at the highest level raids in a game like WoW, most of the gaming population never even sees them. Furthermore, there’s a big of common sense involved in thinking that most people who play games play them casually and that’s any game. There are more pro baseball players than amateur ones. Pretty simple really.
People who really get into the number crunching aren’t a minority because I say so. They’re a minority because most people don’t like math that much. Do you really need a poll to know this.
Devs from companies have gone on the record talking about casual players and also solo players. Games thrive on them. If you don’t want to believe it, that’s your own lookout.
So people keep saying, OMG this game is so imbalanced, it’s the worst thing ever. I point out that I’ve seen this on every MMORPG forum I’ve ever logged into. Every single one. While my word on this is annecdotal, it’s easy enough to research for yourself.
So if every single forum for every single MMORPG has had people saying this is the most unbalanced game ever, or no MMO is as badly balanced as this one, they can’t all be right, can they?
I’m not saying there’s not work to do. I’m saying the sky is falling reaction to the work that is going on and will continue to go on changes neither the work nor the state of the game as it stands now.
You have a problem, apparently a serious problem with the game balance. Most people that play this game are still trying to figure out what a condition is. What a boon is. Where to find stuff in LA.
This is also true on most MMOs. You don’t need to be a brain surgeon to know that the average intelligence of gamers isn’t a zillion. The guys who min/max and crunch numbers and really get into that stuff are a very small percentage of the population because intelligent people are a very small percentage.
Yes, it’s a big deal to you, I get it. But that doesn’t make it a big deal.
Good luck with RL. I cancalled my RL account to play Guild Wars 2, but that’s another matter.
Maybe there’s such a thing as being “too” dedicated to your server. I mean if you balance out your time so you’re making money some of the time and spending money some of the time, instead of doing the “right” thing all the time, you’ll probably be better off financially.
You spend some time flipping camps, which helps your side anyway, you spend a bit of time with the zerg, you build up your resources and then you spend them on whatever upgrades you want. It’s actually part of the game.
No one should have the money to freely upgrade all the time.
The OP suggests the WvW is a cash sink because he plays it in the way which is probably guaranteed to make the least money, while at the same time putting down the ways in WvW he could make money.
Seems to me this is a problem more of perception than of reality.
I do all those things and I upgrades as well. If they made upgrades cost karma instead of cash it would end the cash sink to wvw since your gaining karma flipping camps anyway.
That’s actually an interesting idea. Maybe you should throw that up in suggestions.
I"m not sure you realize this, OP, but heart quests are different from dynamic events. The hearts are placed in areas where events spawn…events, and specifically event chains are some of the fastest ways to level.
Sometimes if you do an event (not a heart), and you wait around for a minute after, listen to what the NPCs are saying. Sometimes they’re preparing for the next event which piggybacks on the first one. Some of these events can be a lot of fun.
Gather everything that you find also. Even if you don’t craft, you can sell the stuff on the trading post, but you can get a decent amount of experience from gathering.
I like the story and characters.
I like some of the stories and some of the characters. I think it’s pretty uneven, actually. And you know, I’m a fan of the game…but some stories are a lot more fun than others.