I have every mastery finished and well over 10 points left over. You don’t need everyone.
Vayne,
You are actually a fairly rational denizen of the forums, as White Knights go. But, lets be honest. You have 366 tabs! Not just replies, but TABS on this forum.To you, GW2 is a 24/7 endeavor. Your entire existential identity is tied to playing this game.
Because of this, it’s impossible for you to place yourself into the shoes of people who play the game for 1 or 2 hours a day, after work, when the kids have been put to bed.
You can’t fathom how someone with a life might not enjoy having to spend 30 minutes taxing in people to play events on the HoT maps, or be disgusted playing the same meta-event night, after night, after night, ad nauseum in order to unlock Mastery Points that allow them to talk to a Frog so that they can buy a recipe.
Your persistence as an apologist provides me with a never ending source of amusement. Keep it up!
Edit: With your unquestioning of authority, you would have made a great 11th Century Monk.
Ah, the voice of reason has spoken.
I have a lot of tabs because this is what I do to pass time. However, you’re neglecting the fact that I’m in a casual guild with casual people who I play with quite frequently. A lot of what I relate is what they are doing or saying, not what I’m doing or saying.
I don’t expect most people to have 28k achievement points like I do. But then no one else in my guild had that either. However, many people in my guild run fractals and enjoy the rewards, even people with a couple of thousand achievement points.
So you see, I can actually talk about what more relaxed players do because I run a guild full of them.
We need to look into the real numbers (that ncsoft will release soon i guess), but to me, when someone needs to launch a new product just right after the last one, only means 2 things : you have a lot of money and you can invest on whatever, whenever, or you didnt win too much money with that last product and you need a new one that generates income.
The answer: when we see the real numbers of sells and money generated.
Who’s launching a new product right after the last one?
In Guild Wars 1, they started working on the first expansion before launch, and the third expansion before the second one launched. Not too many people are saying Guild Wars 1 was a failure.
No, the reality of the industry is you start working on your expansion as soon as you launch one because they take a couple of years to make.
Actually you can do the fractals without those masteries.
Yes, he can. But, as you have already noticed, low level fractal rewards without those masteries are rubbish.
But since you only need to get to second level of mastery to get the better rewards, it’s really not that hard. Particularly because you can get mastery points in the fractals themselves.
Also I don’t believe I ever said the rewards were rubbish. Even before the overhaul I was running Fractals. They were simply less than they had been. They needed a buff, which they got.
They’re okay. Not wonderful, but okay.
And leveling Tyrian masteries really isn’t that hard…it just takes some time. Grab some buffs, run some events in Orr and you’ll be surprised how fast you can level masteries.
You missed my point: I’m not gated by the XP. I’m gated by the Mastery Points. I made the mistake of spending some on Legendary masteries before I realized I would never complete it.
There are plenty of extra mastery points built into the system. I have every mastery finished and well over 10 points left over. You don’t need everyone. If you’re saying you can’t get any of the ones you have left, I’d say you need a better guild or better friends or better something because it’s really not that hard.
Nor do you have to go to the last Fractal mastery to get the better rewards. You only need to go to the second one.
People that are playing your game = possible cash.
The more timegates they stick in the game the longer players have to stay/return to your game.
Not rocket science, but it is greed, pure and simple.
Edit: clarity
This is correct but it’s called capitalism not greed. That is the societal structure that we live in, you really need to learn to deal with it.
There are degrees. If a company offers a good product and good service, I am inclined to gladly purchase more of their product out of loyalty. If a company forces it’s will upon me I am more likely just going to turn my back on said practices.
Hopefully over time they learn the folly of their ways as many others come to that self same realization. If not there is no skin off my backside as it sits I refuse to deal with many companies now and one more won’t bother me in the least if practices like this become the norm.
But “you” one person, doesn’t matter. If six guys are like you and a thousand guys will log in for the time gate, you lose. Because that’s also capitalism.
Even the good game line is not really well thought out because everyone finds different things in games enjoyable. If they make a good game for me it might be a bad game for you. People want different things.
So this make a good game…good game for who? That’s why time gates exist in game. More people will log in to do it, no matter what players who hate this sort of thing do.
Depends on your personality. If you are the kind of player who doesn’t mind nickle and diming stuff, it probably is worth it. You know really working slowly toward a goal.
If you’re the kind of player who is going to be frustrated because stuff is taking forever, then it’s probably not.
It would work for me, because I’m in no rush.
Gliding in Tyria, while fun, is really of no use other than promoting HoT to the F2P masses.
And preventing deaths from jumping off stuff and forgetting you can’t glide.
There will be plenty of complaints from ppl only trying to make a jump (press space bar) and suddenly will be gliding when not expected in places like JP when one only wants to just get from one elevation to another or open ground. That did happen to me in HoT when I only wanted to get up on a root for a Vista and suddenly I was gliding away which made me gliding down to my death… :-(
That’s probably true, though I haven’t personally experienced that, but I have jumped to my death a couple of times.
Yeah I don’t get it either. I barely go into that map, it’s not my favorite and I’ve beaten the meta 20 times.
Gliding in Tyria, while fun, is really of no use other than promoting HoT to the F2P masses.
And preventing deaths from jumping off stuff and forgetting you can’t glide.
Guild up, that’s my advice. Identify your play style and find a guild that fits it, so you can start doing guild missions, the cheapest/easiest way to get ascended acessories. Run fractals for your ascended rings. Buy an ascended amulet if you have 30 laurels (or 20 laurels and 250 badges of honor).
Then at least you have ascended accessories.
A game gets too hard , it loses the bottom end. No matter how much harder or easier it is than it was, someone is going to leave…in this case you.
The only big difference is when something is new it might appear much harder than it actually is. For example, even Ascalonian Catacombs story mode used to be considered super hard by many players, now it’s easy mode.
The point is, if it’s hard, players might get better and beat the content once they get the experience, if it’s too easy from the start, then it won’t suddenly become more challenging.
Well yes, I think that’s what happened with HoT. People wandered in with their guard down expecting they could waltz in and play the same way they always did. When they couldn’t, many just gave up quickly. The problem is there are plenty of people, I mean a lot, who do give up quickly. They don’t want to keep plugging away at stuff until they succeed. It’s a different mind set.
Which is why some people play football and some people play catch.
HoT is very polarizing. The same feature that many love, many hated and vice versa.
One problem for casuals like myself is I’m now forced to play my character well if I want to solo the zones. Since HoT is only level 80, I can’t retreat to a sub level area when things get too tough. So for the first time I’m paying attention to the synergy of traits, stats and skills in PvE. HoT forces you out of JV builds, your college division one now (US collegiate sports tiers in terms of ability). I’m up for a challenge but it quickly become tiresome to always being on your toes. Few places where you could AFK for bio and return to a non-dead character.
I think this describes it best. Hot is polarizing. There’s always been kitten and them in this player base, but HoT really separates out people who love to just log in and bang around and do their own thing from people who wanted harder, more organized, more challenging content.
On one hand, I can see the logic of the company. We have tons of easy zones, but hardly anything for people who want something harder. There’s very little of that content in the game. I believe Anet over compensated and went too far toward the people who want that experience.
Because a lot of people who don’t also spent the same money on the expansion and those people are going to feel, rightly, disenfranchised.
I once liked this game – it’s a pity it turned out so wrong. Difficulty was skewed too high in HoT. I never quit a game because it’s too easy, but there’s a point where I quit a game because it’s too hard and that’s it. Insult me, I don’t care. People who wanted challenge have it now, everyone else you can look away now as GW2 wastes itself into obscurity.
It won’t waste into obscurity because it’s too hard for you. And there are people who have left this game because it’s too easy. The question becomes how many people are in each group.
Wait and see. It’s not like ‘you’ will lose profits if ANet made the wrong choice and I already found another MMO.
I will wait and see. HoT really isnt’ that hard. This isn’t raid level difficult content. It’s not just braindead easy content.
But yes, wait and see is the operative word. There is always going to have to be a balance between too easy and too hard in any games. A game gets too easy it loses the top end of the spectrum. A game gets too hard , it loses the bottom end. No matter how much harder or easier it is than it was, someone is going to leave…in this case you.
However, I believe very few people have left by percentage because of the difficulty of hot. Other people may have left for different reasons, such as not enjoy WoW, or the dungeon nerf.
Still the equation is simple. If players in = players out the game won’t suffer.
Lol well you guys were busy
I can live with that.
The very moment you stated preferance for one game over the other is the moment you became bias – lol I’ve been having fun. Me being bias for prefering gw1 for dungeons is the same as you being bias for prefering gliding. XD
You’ve been suggesting that about dungeons this entire time! You’ve been acting as though the inclusion of some more dungeons would of resulted in reduced pve maps or something terrible. If their preseance does not decrease value of a game then it would not hurt to include them. It would also be more content for your money thus really can only increase value. Thats fine and dandy if you don’t like dungeons, no one is pointing a gun at your head forcing you to enter them, you could still pretend to be a mindless honeybee.
uhhh profit = fun mate.
No where did I say you hated grinding but saying EVERYTHING is grind is untrue. In your example player A likes it and works toward their goal of a legendary, player B doesn’t like it so they don’t since having one isn’t necessary (unless they feel like they must for the achievement). Working towards a goal is not grinding, doing the exact same thing over and over and over is. There is the difference. Now one could grind as a way to work on that goal if they wanted it done faster but one does NOT have to grind to complete their goals.
LMAO I never made that statement either. You are the one that made the statement “everything is a grind real life and game”.
I was actually going to use you as the player examples but I foresaw you going on tangents so I replaced us with generic players ( I got lazy and didn’t remove that hypotheical part lmao)…..you still went on a tangent even so far as to give a nonexistant player advice.
It’s a simple scenario of two players doing the exact same actions to get the exact same result however player A likes doing it while player B doesn’t. According to you as long as the player is enjoying doing said actions then it’s not a grind. SO really your saying that player A such an important person in the world that they can redefine a term however another player is considered grinding merely because he dislike perfoming those actions. If you would like to say thats not how it works you deny the fact that player A likes doing that action thus we are back at the start “Whether you like doing said actions or not has no bearing on whether or not if it’s a grind mate”
Working towards a goal is not grinding, doing the exact same thing over and over and over is.
I enjoy doing the same thing over and over again to obtain wealth as quickly as possible – now bow before my nongrinding self mere mortal.
space saver
You do realize that gw2 is a sequel to gw1 right? It didn’t come out of the blue with its own idea towards dungeons. Guess what would happen if heros were introduced to gw2….
That full game price for an unfinshed product yikes im glad i was in a unique issuse at that time. Lol “Near future” have fun with that wait…..
I bet you will be just thrilled to make a comparison against a decade+ unsupported finshed game – such challange :O
Heres a spoiler for you new fractal is unreleased abbadon fractal – your welcome
Not living u….
Sssshhh I do talk for you.
?
No I never said that they spent less, I’m just merely curious where you got your info of them spending hundreds of millions only for people to complain that older game.
Throwing more money at a game doesn’t mean that its going to be better.
Ya but the new heroes in EOTN didn’t add anything that you didn’t get from nightfall which had more heroes to choose from. They were good but they are just customizable henchman and whether or not they were good doesn’t change that.
All the dungeons were pretty much the same lol, and most people only ran a couple of them anyways.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Assassin_Asuran_armorhttp://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Elementalist_Asuran_armor
The pages for majority of the eye of the north armor even say they are reskisn of previous armor
ohhh good find mate – at least we can all agree on that shamefull reskinning history. If only I was still able to have signatures I’d post these links. EDIT hell yeah it got unlocked – this is fantastic
Sure a hero was a more advanced version of a henchman but they were still 100 times better than a rando. I still remember that horror mid tier fractals……deep scars
But since I loved the original Guild Wars series and Eye of the North was something I enjoyed…shrugs.
You can like something better than another and still not be biased. It just requires having the ability to detach yourself from your feelings.
I once liked this game – it’s a pity it turned out so wrong. Difficulty was skewed too high in HoT. I never quit a game because it’s too easy, but there’s a point where I quit a game because it’s too hard and that’s it. Insult me, I don’t care. People who wanted challenge have it now, everyone else you can look away now as GW2 wastes itself into obscurity.
It won’t waste into obscurity because it’s too hard for you. And there are people who have left this game because it’s too easy. The question becomes how many people are in each group.
… It does involve getting the Fractal masteries unlocked, …
And therein lies the rub: gated by HoT.
It is absurdly impossible for me to attain all of the central Tyria masteries. I’ll never even come close to getting just two tracks done. Legendaries are something I gave up long ago, but I’m not convinced I’ll ever see the top of the fractal masteries.
And, I’m sure there are many others like me.
So, again, the rewards are reduced. In theory, I could get the rewards back up to what they were before HoT, but that just begs the question.
You obviously don’t play the game enough if after almost 3 months you’ve failed to get r3 in Fractal Mastery, why are you complaining about rewards for a game you play once a week for an hour?
For the best reason imaginable… because he paid for it.
Actually you can do the fractals without those masteries. So complaining he’s gated from something that he, as a casual, wouldn’t be doing anyway, really isn’t an argument.
He can do fractals without the masteries.
… It does involve getting the Fractal masteries unlocked, …
And therein lies the rub: gated by HoT.
It is absurdly impossible for me to attain all of the central Tyria masteries. I’ll never even come close to getting just two tracks done. Legendaries are something I gave up long ago, but I’m not convinced I’ll ever see the top of the fractal masteries.
And, I’m sure there are many others like me.
So, again, the rewards are reduced. In theory, I could get the rewards back up to what they were before HoT, but that just begs the question.
First of all, if you’re casual you don’t need to do level 50 plus fractals and nothing else is gated by HoT.
You can’t really have it both ways. I’m too casual to level masteries, but I’m hard core enough to do100 level fractals.
Fractals are plenty profitable even at lower levels.
This is simply a non-argument.
And leveling Tyrian masteries really isn’t that hard…it just takes some time. Grab some buffs, run some events in Orr and you’ll be surprised how fast you can level masteries.
The only thing that didn’t fail are elite specs in pve & the music.
If they fix pvp & wvw this game is just gw2 again with a few extra jungle maps with timed meta’s tied to them.
No immersion, no engagement, nothing of that is what I feel when exploring HoT maps. Just a big clusterkitten of “what the kitten is going on here”
Scarlet’s lore did the job so much better in every way .
And I feel more immersed in the new maps than core Tyria maps, because I have to at least pay attention there. There’s less immersion when you can walk through the map and just press 1 and everything is dead.
If I’m in a war zone, I want to feel like I’m in a war zone. HoT does that for me.
Guild trying for Lost Precipice. Tips wanted.
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Vayne.8563
It really is all about survival combined with killing quickly. Once you kill the maw, the other creatures despawn, so vintenders and maw. DPS is really the key.
As far as getting to other locations quickly it’s pretty much what you’d expect. If everyone has updraft use it’s better for Lost Precipice. A lot of it is just the luck of the spawns, but it’s definitely doable.
Use consumables, like food and utilities as well. If people have trouble surviving, try mango pie for food.
Guild trying for Lost Precipice. Tips wanted.
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Vayne.8563
You shouldn’t need help to do it. Focus the vinetenders first, since they keep the thing you’re trying to kill alive, then burn it down as fast as possible. You can try as many times as you like until you get it, so just have at it.
Good luck.
Yes dungeons are basic features in MMOs and often exist at the expense of the open world, which is why so many games open worlds suck. You go through them once and then they die because there’s no real reason to go back to them. You get no experience, you get no drops. So you sit in the last three zones like a cabbage. This is the old guard. Yes, it’s what everyone is doing.
Some of us came here to get away from what everyone else was doing. That’s sort of the point. Every time Anet introduces anything in other MMOs, people go ballistic, or hadn’t you noticed.
Dungeons are not the be all end all of this game and I say that’s good. Because there are plenty of places you can go to play dungeons. But I’ve yet to play an MMO that has the open world experience of Guild Wars 2.
No gw2 biasim here LOL
So your saying that by adding additional dungeons along with its maps the value would have severely diminshed compared to what there is now? Its a good thing i’m the one with the misinformation.
We lost nothing in pve when fotm was added but we would of lost everything if a few dungeons were added to hot >_>
There isn’t anything wrong with current dungeons however yes their rewards are kitten. With hot release they got even worse-I do agree 100% with that. Overall its an issue with gw2 kittenty reward design – items aren’t restricted to specifc areas hence the mindless mass just groups up in one area – but thats a different rant for a different day.
Gw2 players go ballistic any time they faced with a challange thats anything but logging in. Did you not visit the forums during wintersday? They were throwing such a hissy fit over the 3 required jp runs that they resorted to trying to use other people disabilities as an excuse why they should do it, which was darkly humourous because you wouldn’t see those same players in the thread for a color-blind mode XD.
You may say gw2 is different but as time goes by its conforming into a basic mmo. war/guard – ele/druid – necro/mesmer that trinity in disguise. skills behind xp grinds.
We got Raids with HoT. And GW2 had a lot of dungeons pre-HoT, while GW1 didn’t have many dungeons pre-EotN. Get the difference?
Gw1 had elite areas 12 man urgoz/the deep, 8 man fow/uw/doa that required team coordination, messing up generally resulted in party wipe and having to start over from the beginning – essentially a “raid” under a different name. The difference really being gw2 is extremly forgiving to the casual so they are able to start again at the part where they wiped.
grind
Whether you like doing said actions or not has no bearing on whether or not if it’s a grind mate.
If you believe that than everything, be it real life or video games, are grinding which is not the case. But from your other post there is no point explaining further. Have a good one.
again….who is saying I hated grinding?
We’ll break it down Barney style for you mate – first off this is a hypothetical situation aka it may or may not be true – lets say a player really dislikes the amount of work it takes to make a legendary whereas another player does not mind putting forth the effort. Are the players’ actions of making the legndary a grind or no?
Stating fact isn’t bias. A lot of people DID come to this game to get away from traditional MMO formats. Pointing that out isn’t bias.
No one said adding dungeons would decrease the value of the game. However, that doesn’t mean it would increase the value of the game to me. I’d consider it a waste of resources.
From a business point of view, I’m not even sure raids is a great idea. I mean sure, it sounds great on paper. But I wonder what percentage of the population is running raids. It doesn’t seem like a huge percentage to me.
Nor am I sure most people ran dungeons for fun, instead of profit. But you know, it doesn’t really matter. You provided a very one-sided view of what was contained in two products, got the price wrong on one of them and then continue to accuse other people of bias.
I can live with that.
so you buy a slot, and al your toon have that slot, and you just need to add a bag to it? what’s the problem here?
It’s not a bag slot. You can’t equip a bag in the slot. It’s an inventory slot. One slot/one item.
One slot for one item on every character you have, which in my case is 30 slots.
That’s not “fractal rewards”. That’s “high level fractal rewards”. Remember, we were talking about casuals that moved out of dungeons here – and they are unlikely to even have AR for those levels.
High level fractal rewards are better then ever, and even Fractal rewards are better than ever for low level Fractals. It does involve getting the Fractal masteries unlocked, but it’s very easy to make dungeon level money in Fractals now, even from lower level fractals if you do the lower level dailies.
However, higher level fractals now, are as easy as lower level fractals were before.
My guild is as casual as it gets, and we often three-four man fractals that before we didn’t do at all.
I think pretty much anyone reading your analysis can see the bias but you. Take the price. Comparing the price of an old game with the price of a game on release is disingenous at best. Downright misleading at most.
When EotN came out like eight years ago, it was $40. And that $40 today is actually more than $50. Ignoring this completely degrades the rest of your argument.
Eye of the North was not cheaper at launch than HoT.
If you want to go that way, the next time Anet releases an expansion, HoT will come free with it and it will be cheaper than EotN.
Disingenuous argument is disingenuous.
LOL still don’t want to comment how you got played by a blantly obvious 180 view switch? Thathathatha denial!!!!
ok gw2 bias man – so if its pointless to compare launch costs with a 8 year old game, is it not equally as pointless to compare features of a newer game to that of a game that was made 8 years ago?
Your comparison doesn’t really help your case since the only things EOTN added was skills and dungeons
Majority of the eye of the north armor was just reskinned from older sets with extremely minor changes like another spike here and there. So not really a whole lot of “additions”
Heroes were just customizable henchmen and didn’t really matter since you could just change their skills to suit whatever you needed. Jora was no different than Koss if they had the same build.
No game mechanic additions at all
New regions doesn’t really matter when the maps within them are all basically the same. Each one might as well be one large map and if it weren’t for the loading screens i wouldn’t even realize i’m in a different area, Depths of Tyria doesn’t even count as a region since its really only the name for where all the dungeons take place which is just underground and most of the dungeons looked the same.
Plus I don’t have to pay for the base game unlike Eye of the north so you actually have to pay more to play Eye of the North, about 100 dollars includign either Nightfall, Factions or Prophecies
Eotn was originally going to be a 4th standalone campaign that was scrapped due to time constraints and instead modified to lead into gw2.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_Utopia
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Emblazoned_armor_human_female_front.jpg
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Leystone_armor_(medium)_human_female_front.jpg
so unique :odungeons are basic features of mmorpg’s, have you seen many dunegonlesss mmorpgs?
heros were amazingggggg. When your guildies or friends weren’t on and you wanted to do dungeons you could just pick them up and flip the pugs off before leaving town. pugless runs were toooo good.
lol that last statement is ironic- unless unless you bought gw2 during a sale event or brand new base basic price was 59.99 for core and 49.99 for hot……
Yes dungeons are basic features in MMOs and often exist at the expense of the open world, which is why so many games open worlds suck. You go through them once and then they die because there’s no real reason to go back to them. You get no experience, you get no drops. So you sit in the last three zones like a cabbage. This is the old guard. Yes, it’s what everyone is doing.
Some of us came here to get away from what everyone else was doing. That’s sort of the point. Every time Anet introduces anything in other MMOs, people go ballistic, or hadn’t you noticed.
Dungeons are not the be all end all of this game and I say that’s good. Because there are plenty of places you can go to play dungeons. But I’ve yet to play an MMO that has the open world experience of Guild Wars 2.
grind
Whether you like doing said actions or not has no bearing on whether or not if it’s a grind mate.
As technology evolved, it actually become more and more expensive to create games.
hundreds of millions- very few even breaking the 100 million mark. Most of those also include marketing and distribution costs. Technology is getting cheaper- what you buy now may not be close to what that thing in 5 years. ironic though the development cost vary wildy yet the release price is always $59.99
we care only about gw2 though- find that development info
You dislike grinding but brag about gliding which requires 9 million xp pts ( didn’t include leyline becuase it most likely wont be in reg game)
Oh you absolutely need leyline gliding to even begin thinking about gliding didn’t you read that in the earlier post?
LOL I 180’d my viewpoint and even dropped a hint to see if you’d notice and call me out on it – you didn’t. Read only what fits for you and deny everything else, forgot what that word is…
Echo, you complain about XP graind yet you totally ignored the kittening grind in EotN with the reputations to make your PvE only skills effective. Actually it even wasn’t account bound. So you had to grind those kittening reputations x5 with asura, norn etc. just to make the skills effective on every single character!
Interesting I don’t recall ever complaining about grinding here, would you point that out? This entire time I was pointing out the the other party’s hypocritical view. If you said that I dont enjoy doing repetitive zombie tasks for universal rewards – I actually would have claimed that regardless whether I did or didn’t say it.
Here is version just for you: For starters max xp for eotn reputations is 160k xp each so all 4 = 640k xp – would you like a hot comparison…. rank 1 of any hot mastery is 500k
“but but… you had to do it for each character” this is going to be a tough one… 640k x 5 characters = 3.2 million xp 100k under rank 5 of just one of the 4 main hot masteries.
You only needed to get rank 5 (26k each reputation) to get max effectiveness out of the pve skill related to that reputation- really? that’s an outrageous grind to you or did you just make a factual error? ooohhh
Also, you seem to ignore your factual errors about price tags
I claimed that error my following post after it.
oh boy error on pricing discredits my view? Your post is a crime aginst humanity than mate but by all means continue to be more hypocritical
I started playing gw1 in 2008 and didnt get other campaign +expakittenil 2009 but of course you knew this to not be a possibility. Players are ONLY able to play a game if they start day 1 of release right? If thats not right well then there is no possibility that the price will be lowered, players will always have to pay full price regards the amount of time the game has been out right? wait what im wrong again, then I guess I clearly stated that was the inital release price…..
etc. etc.etc.etc.etc.etc.etc.
what other errors would you like to point out mate?
I think pretty much anyone reading your analysis can see the bias but you. Take the price. Comparing the price of an old game with the price of a game on release is disingenous at best. Downright misleading at most.
When EotN came out like eight years ago, it was $40. And that $40 today is actually more than $50. Ignoring this completely degrades the rest of your argument.
Eye of the North was not cheaper at launch than HoT.
If you want to go that way, the next time Anet releases an expansion, HoT will come free with it and it will be cheaper than EotN.
Disingenuous argument is disingenuous.
I will not join squads until they implement an option to disable squad member name tags.
Apart from that, no, I don’t want to participate. I don’t give a rodent’s rectum about what’s happening on those maps and what other people there expect of me. I just want to dot my i’s and cross my t’s, i.e. get some achievements done and complete the maps. If I have to “leech” someone’s organized map for that, blame the designers for ignorantly creating open world content that can’t be played solo in a non-leeching capacity. It’s stupid beyond words.
They’re open world maps so I’ll do there what I please, and it pleases me to not submit myself to the insane clock-driven metacycles. A game has no business telling me when to play. The most extreme bit of planning I’ve ever done around a game is to tell someone I might be back later that night, when I logged off.
It’s better to light a single candle then to curse the darkness.
HoT broke WvW is not a fact, because people were complaining WvW was broken long before HoT. If you want I can find the posts. PPT is broken, night capping is broken, server imbalance is broken, there have been tons of issues with WvW long before HoT. WvW was already broken. I suppose you could argue HoT broke it more, but that’s a different statement.
That’s just semantic and bring nothing to the discussion now. People will call everything broken all the time. It’s not because someone somewhere call something broken once, that you can’t ever use that word ever again.
The fact is that WvW always had something off. Some mechanics didn’t work well, and the community lacked support from Anet. But it was working. There was several WvW guild, some were doing roaming, other zerg bursting, other fought for control over the maps, etc. It had a lot of flaw, but WvW was a big portion of the game. Now? the 3 borderland are completely empty, even if pre-hot they used to be full on occasion, especially on reset night (at least for my tier).
The new maps are just not fun to play and this is a way bigger issue than we used to have in WvW.
I completely agree with your assessment. But let’s not pretend before HoT there were so many satisfied WvW players by percentage. Many of them walked away over the years for other problems as well. The complaints about the format were endless.
HoT sure didn’t help matters that much is true, but it has major issues long before HoT.
Going Free To Play devalued my purchase to zero
No it didn’t.
I have every right to have a problem with that.
No you don’t. Read 4.C of the User Agreement.
Expansion drops and more gem store items have been released than were added to the game with the xpac.
No they haven’t. Your statement is empirically false.
They have only released 3 legendary weapons but had gem skins ready to go, that’s interfering.
No it isn’t. I’m sure the amount of time to create just the skin itself is comparable, but the systems for obtaining legendary weapons are vastly more complex than those for BLTC skins.
Well since you say so…..
I bought a Buy To Play game, fact.
That game is now Free To Play, fact.
HoT removed systems from core, fact.
I paid the same price for HoT as a new player, fact.
HoT broke WvW, fact.
HoT broke PvP balance, fact.And yes, I have every right to be upset, fact.
Actually the game isn’t free to play. If you look at the restrictions it’s still buy to play. It’s just that you buy to play HoT now. Most people that say it’s free to play were never free to play customers. Free to play ios more like an unlimited demo.
HoT broke WvW is not a fact, because people were complaining WvW was broken long before HoT. If you want I can find the posts. PPT is broken, night capping is broken, server imbalance is broken, there have been tons of issues with WvW long before HoT. WvW was already broken. I suppose you could argue HoT broke it more, but that’s a different statement.
Guild Wars 1 was also a buy to play game, it also sold expansions and those expansions included skills you could get only by owning those expansions and professions you could get only by owning those expansions.
Buy to play has never meant there wouldn’t be expansions to buy.
I started as a free-to-play account in early September. one of the reasons I bought HoT was precisely because I NEVER felt constricted by the game. Ever. In my opinion GW2 has one of the best free-to-play systems on the market.
Why would anyone spend money to buy if they never felt constricted, ever? Seems like a waste of money if the game offers everything without any constrictions.
Or, perhaps you missed his point where HoT was the constriction that makes the game b2p.
No, the game is buy to play. Look, I have a guy in my guild who has trouble making money because he can’t sell most things on the TP. He can’t buy gems and turn them into gold. He’s not getting laurels, except from achievement point chests. You may think these are nothing restrictions, but they add up.
And I’m not saying they’re not in the game to thwart gold sellers, because that’s why these restrictions exist, but every time I talk to him, he has another little thing pushing him to buy. Why are free to play players locked out of home cities till level 10 or Lion’s Arch till level 35. If you go up to a zone, they say it’s locked but you can unlock it early by buying the game.
Want a buff from the guild buff character Nathan the Bartender? You get a message saying you need HoT.
It’s better than most free to play games, that’ true, but don’t pretend that the free to play doesn’t exist to sell the game. Anet made the free to play to get more people to buy. That’s just logic.
That also doesn’t mean that they didn’t give access to all the content. But then, they took away dungeons as one of the best ways to farm gold, and they made Fractals a better way to farm gold, but made Fractals require masteries which are locked behind HoT to get the best gold out of Fractals.
I’m not against any of these changes mind you, but the core game itself has two versions, a free to play version and a paid version. The pay to play version comes with HoT.
(edited by Vayne.8563)
You people Isolate a word without reading the full text, asume the rest, and then go bananas.
Gliding is a Very big gameplay changer! It’s addition to HoT changed completely the way we perceive the world. I strongly believe the game currently NEEDS such variety between worlds. Having different gameplay mechanics will do wanders to the fatigue you feel from playing the same game for 3+ years. The more areas feel like another game, the better!
Gliding in the Flat Core Tyria will do little than mess a lot of things up (since the maps got designed without it), and in the long run it would be even MORE useless than Mounts!How can you people (understandably) Hate mounts for being useless in a game with that many Waypoints, yet are ok to Gliding that’s even More useless in the flat world.
Besides that Link I left wasn’t inteded for Mounts in general, but rather to the first post, where it’s suggested that they’ll could be used as Tools rather than Speedboosts.
It doesn’t have to be Mounts!
You could Rollerscate in Ascalon and Pogostick in Orr for all I care, as long as it’s a different mechanic, and it’s ACTUALLY USEFULL TO THE MAP!As a way to boost sales for HoT, I can think of nothing better than adding gliding to core Tyria.
As I said. Being allowed just in Cities is Ok. It’s where everyone shows off anyway…
Also, no mounts.
F*** Mounts.
Give me a Pogo stick instead.
But No Gliding.Also…gliding will mess up JPs…..but flying mounts…won’t?
Wha…?!
Who in his right mind would EVER want Flying in the game? Are you Mad?!
You must have a creative guild. Because our guild hide and seek is about to become glide and seek. This alone will be a massive improvement to our guild get togethers.
Just the fact that you’re quoting the EotN price at $19.99 makes me question everything else you wrote. Because EotN was not $19.99 when it launched.
In fact, your entire comparison is biased based on say your love for dungeons. There was nothing in EoTN like the metas we have. There was no new character class. There were no real updates to how you played each of the professions you played. There was plenty of grind in the form of leveling up skills.
Yes, it did have dungeons. That’s what it had. And if dungeons weren’t your thing….those zones are not the kind of zones you could repeat long term. Most of them were quite simple. I’d rather have 1 hot zone than 10 of the EoTN zones.
It didn’t do anything for guild halls. It didn’t add anything like gliding which completely changes the game (and yes, gliding is now coming to core Tyria as well).
It feels like a biased comparison to me.
so you’re telling me you have 0 biasim for gw2….you just get hurt when someone tells it how it is.
You dislike grinding but brag about gliding which requires 9 million xp pts ( didn’t include leyline becuase it most likely wont be in reg game)
ohhh geez mate 1 whole new class, how can that compete with the 4 professions from the other two campaigns. The ability to mix skills from other classes easily prevented staleness… but gw2 single new class solved everything….
If mind numbingly folllowing the zerg around for hours each day spaming your 1 skill is considered as " fun" to well good on ya mate.
yes it didn’t do much for guilds because for starters they decided to switch gears to make gw2 as well as they had guilds halls from the start. They also had actual gvg. gw2 didn’t get but two guild halls until this expac also tell me about that gvg scene…..oh boy error on pricing discredits my view? Your post is a crime aginst humanity than mate but by all means continue to be more hypocritical
snip
what? gw1 campagins were all standalone games. The heck are you on?
Try to remember uw/fow from proph ( although accessed by other campaigns), the deep/urgoz from factions or doa from nf? I’m constantly reminded of those when I do the crap they offer now. How the hell did it fall that far?
You don’t need leyline gliding to glide. I like gliding from even the beginning. But yes, I like the process of unlocking gliding and yes, I don’t grind to do it.
As for bias, I’m a huge Guild Wars 1 fan. So I have no reason to malign the game. But facts need to be reported correctly and other facts need not to be ignored.
It’s a fact that EotN wasn’t $19.99 at launch.
Oh you absolutely need leyline gliding to even begin thinking about gliding didn’t you read that in the earlier post? Mate spending hours doing the same repetitive things for minimal xp is still grinding, it doesn’t matter whether you like doing it or not.
That’s some serious denial mate. Why did your bum get so hurt when I simply pointed out how the hot expac isn’t living up to expectations?
How the hell do you need leyline gliding to even begin thinking of gliding? People have completed all four zones without having leyline gliding so exactly what do you need it for? Speaking of serious denial.
Also I play what I play, when I want to play it. So I haven’t finished every HoT mastery because I’m not grinding. When I go into those areas, I load up on boosts but I do what I want.
Going Free To Play devalued my purchase to zero
No it didn’t.
I have every right to have a problem with that.
No you don’t. Read 4.C of the User Agreement.
Expansion drops and more gem store items have been released than were added to the game with the xpac.
No they haven’t. Your statement is empirically false.
They have only released 3 legendary weapons but had gem skins ready to go, that’s interfering.
No it isn’t. I’m sure the amount of time to create just the skin itself is comparable, but the systems for obtaining legendary weapons are vastly more complex than those for BLTC skins.
Well since you say so…..
I bought a Buy To Play game, fact.
That game is now Free To Play, fact.
HoT removed systems from core, fact.
I paid the same price for HoT as a new player, fact.
HoT broke WvW, fact.
HoT broke PvP balance, fact.And yes, I have every right to be upset, fact.
Actually the game isn’t free to play. If you look at the restrictions it’s still buy to play. It’s just that you buy to play HoT now. Most people that say it’s free to play were never free to play customers. Free to play ios more like an unlimited demo.
HoT broke WvW is not a fact, because people were complaining WvW was broken long before HoT. If you want I can find the posts. PPT is broken, night capping is broken, server imbalance is broken, there have been tons of issues with WvW long before HoT. WvW was already broken. I suppose you could argue HoT broke it more, but that’s a different statement.
Guild Wars 1 was also a buy to play game, it also sold expansions and those expansions included skills you could get only by owning those expansions and professions you could get only by owning those expansions.
Buy to play has never meant there wouldn’t be expansions to buy.
It’s not the mechanics, it’s the writing as well. My my comments were people complained about the personal story. And they did. Endlessly,. They complained about the way cut scenes were done. They complained about the story being anticlimatic because you never really fought Zhaitan, and they complained that instance was too long. It took too much time.
You specifically cited the Arah mission and the only change Anet made to it was the game mechanics. The story did not change. This is the example you choose to make your point. Anet did not change the Arah story because of complaints.
As for people complaining. Someone will complain about everything eventually. However, we see many people complaining about the same things in the HoT story. I never saw the levels of complaints for the PS that you are claiming.
The point is we’ve seen complaints for years about the personal story and when HoT came out, many people said the delivery mechanism was a major improvement.
Some people did say it was a major improvement (this was literally all they said, “an improvement”). But a lot said that it wasn’t very good and cited many strong examples.
Now I don’t have the time to sit and edit and go through all the writing to critique every segment for you but the writing itself was fine. Complaints that we don’t learn everything people want to know only matter if you don’t know enough. In my opinion, in most cases we know enough.
In your opinion, yes. But for many other players, this is not enough. And the writing is not fine. Caithe, being central to LS2, is entirely sidelined the rest of the HoT. There is no closure to her story. Brahm…got a haircut. Rytlock was unbelievably enigmatic. Trahearne and Faolain were nothing more than plot devices. These are just some of the problems with the characters. The story didn’t make sense, going so quickly from a crushing defeat to a full assault against a dragon. Zhaitan actually looked more powerful that Mordremoth because it took a whole army to weaken him. Mordremoth was beaten by a ragtag bunch of adventures who fell in kitten and the remnants of the Pact he supposedly devastated.
Then there’s the meandering plot. For such a short story, you’d think it would have some direction and focus. Frog village was pointless. Rata Novus felt like a LS one-shot, not a part of a consistent narrative and did not contribute to the story in any significant way. There were far more efficient ways to handle that tiny bit of information. The egg, Anet was just checking the box, because us chasing it in LS2 was…pointless for HoT. The point is that there is very little good writing in the HoT story. If you strip out all of the side stuff that adds nothing the main story of HoT (the fight against mordremoth), you’re basically left with the first two and last two missions.
And don’t get me started on the bread crumbs mission. If there’s any great example of filler, it’s that.
As much as you claim people hated the original PS, there is some decent writing there. And from Fort Trinity to Arah (pretty much the same length as HoT), the story has direction and focus.
A lot of the complaints were about not continuing the Malyck story or not knowing Caithe’s specific motivations. We know it was her wild hunt. That is a motivation We also know wild hunts don’t give you all the info, so we can assume that she knew she had to get the egg somewhere safely, without knowing every particular.
No, complaints about Malyck and Caithe are just one of many. And Caithe didn’t even get the egg to safety. The PC did the trials. The PC did it.
The writing of the story is greatly affected by the needs of the game. The game designers wrote 16 chapters of things to do.
You can’t stuff more into those things than the game itself requires. You can do that in a novel but you can’t do that in a game.
Of course not. Anet sacrificed a lot of story for gameplay. No one here is disagreeing with that. That’s why the story is no good. Could there be a good story and good gameplay? Of course, they did it for the PS, but that didn’t happen here.
Yes the story hasn’t changed and people have been complaining about it from day one. My comment was people complained about the personal story, including Arah. So the change is irrelvant. People did complain about it.
Not sure what part of that you’re having trouble with.
At any rate, given the past history of our conversations, I don’t see any point in continuing the discussion with you.
My enjoyment of this game comes mostly from it’s organic nature. I can’t think of another MMO that I can just run around in and do whatever comes up. I often start doing one thing and either an event pops up, or I’ll see a gathering node, and before I know it, I’m way off my original “mission” and doing something I didn’t expect to be doing.
This game sates my tendency toward wanderlust.
I wasn’t talking about the personal story being made solo. I was talking about people complaining about the personal story, of which Arah story mode was a part. It’s like we’re not even talking the same language. At no time did I refer to the Arah Story being made soloable.
There are complaints about the length of the mission, there were complaints about the Zhaitan fight.
Whatever you’re trying to say that I said has nothing to do with what I’m saying.
This is where I’m getting confused. What does the mechanics of the Zhaitan fight have to do with the writing of the personal story?
It’s not the mechanics, it’s the writing as well. My my comments were people complained about the personal story. And they did. Endlessly,. They complained about the way cut scenes were done. They complained about the story being anticlimatic because you never really fought Zhaitan, and they complained that instance was too long. It took too much time.
The point is we’ve seen complaints for years about the personal story and when HoT came out, many people said the delivery mechanism was a major improvement.
Now I don’t have the time to sit and edit and go through all the writing to critique every segment for you but the writing itself was fine. Complaints that we don’t learn everything people want to know only matter if you don’t know enough. In my opinion, in most cases we know enough.
A lot of the complaints were about not continuing the Malyck story or not knowing Caithe’s specific motivations. We know it was her wild hunt. That is a motivation We also know wild hunts don’t give you all the info, so we can assume that she knew she had to get the egg somewhere safely, without knowing every particular.
The writing of the story is greatly affected by the needs of the game. The game designers wrote 16 chapters of things to do.
You can’t stuff more into those things than the game itself requires. You can do that in a novel but you can’t do that in a game.
Just the fact that you’re quoting the EotN price at $19.99 makes me question everything else you wrote. Because EotN was not $19.99 when it launched.
In fact, your entire comparison is biased based on say your love for dungeons. There was nothing in EoTN like the metas we have. There was no new character class. There were no real updates to how you played each of the professions you played. There was plenty of grind in the form of leveling up skills.
Yes, it did have dungeons. That’s what it had. And if dungeons weren’t your thing….those zones are not the kind of zones you could repeat long term. Most of them were quite simple. I’d rather have 1 hot zone than 10 of the EoTN zones.
It didn’t do anything for guild halls. It didn’t add anything like gliding which completely changes the game (and yes, gliding is now coming to core Tyria as well).
It feels like a biased comparison to me.
so you’re telling me you have 0 biasim for gw2….you just get hurt when someone tells it how it is.
You dislike grinding but brag about gliding which requires 9 million xp pts ( didn’t include leyline becuase it most likely wont be in reg game)
ohhh geez mate 1 whole new class, how can that compete with the 4 professions from the other two campaigns. The ability to mix skills from other classes easily prevented staleness… but gw2 single new class solved everything….
If mind numbingly folllowing the zerg around for hours each day spaming your 1 skill is considered as " fun" to well good on ya mate.
yes it didn’t do much for guilds because for starters they decided to switch gears to make gw2 as well as they had guilds halls from the start. They also had actual gvg. gw2 didn’t get but two guild halls until this expac also tell me about that gvg scene…..oh boy error on pricing discredits my view? Your post is a crime aginst humanity than mate but by all means continue to be more hypocritical
snip
what? gw1 campagins were all standalone games. The heck are you on?
Try to remember uw/fow from proph ( although accessed by other campaigns), the deep/urgoz from factions or doa from nf? I’m constantly reminded of those when I do the crap they offer now. How the hell did it fall that far?
You don’t need leyline gliding to glide. I like gliding from even the beginning. But yes, I like the process of unlocking gliding and yes, I don’t grind to do it.
As for bias, I’m a huge Guild Wars 1 fan. So I have no reason to malign the game. But facts need to be reported correctly and other facts need not to be ignored.
It’s a fact that EotN wasn’t $19.99 at launch.
Just like to think what every thinks about this topic now that HoT has been out for a few months now
I think this…
@Vayne, it does serve a purpose, it paints the setup in a negative moral light.
Accusations of pay-to-win over anything a poster doesn’t care for that cost money are a bald attempt to generate agreement and/or shame a developer by invoking a buzz-word, in this case an extremely loaded term that reeks of derision and scorn.
Except for one point… In PvP and WvW where balance matters, the OP isn’t wrong. Elite specs are without question more powerful than base specs. More power behind a pay wall is what P2W means.
I think this thread is a bit over the top but balance is broken atm so have at it.
So name an MMORPG where this isn’t the case? If EVERY MMORPG is p2w, then what meaning do those words actually have. Don’t you have a raised level cap in most MMOs? Doesn’t that make you more powerful?
In that case, this is the least pay to win of all MMOs, because there are still specs you can use without buying Heart of Thorns. In most MMOs that’s not the case.
Pay to win has traditionally been used to apply to cash shop transactions, not expansions. It was used to indicate legit MMOs from those that sell power in the cash shop.
If you change the definition you change the original meaning. Then you can SAY that this game is P2W. But since every other MMORPG will also be pay to win, what’s the point exactly?
What are you talking about. Arah story mode was the final step of the personal story before the epilogue. I have no idea what you’re on about.
We have been discussing the GW2 personal story. I thought you were talking about the change to make Arah story mode solo’able. That was done because few people were running the dungeon story modes at that time and Anet wanted to make it easier for people to view the final mission in the story. It did not change the story at all.
Or are you making the claim that the Arah story mode was not present with release? If so, that’s another incorrect statement.[/quote]
I wasn’t talking about the personal story being made solo. I was talking about people complaining about the personal story, of which Arah story mode was a part. It’s like we’re not even talking the same language. At no time did I refer to the Arah Story being made soloable.
There are complaints about the length of the mission, there were complaints about the Zhaitan fight.
Whatever you’re trying to say that I said has nothing to do with what I’m saying.
Now, imagine that every player doesn’t read every patch note.
Myself, I read only the balance notes. As for the average player, they read absolutely none because the the kitten would they?
Yep every player doesn’t read the patch notes. But every player who plays with any degree of seriousness probably should. Because if you don’t, you miss some important stuff.
Edit: By the way, since I announce most of this stuff at guild missions, if you’re in a community and paying attention you might have heard it too.
oh look we have an heir!!!
So please help me understand with my lack of economy background…. what would of happened to the supply and demand in gw1 if i was able to list goods in an AH and be able to continue nonstop farming instead having to have players stop to unload their bags?
Yes prices in gw1 weren’t set in stone but rarely did they ever fall to the point where you were better off merching the item instead of forever trying to sell it like the tiny snowflake. You must be new most of the lower tier crafting items, prior to the crafting updates, were in that same position.
If you got the time I’d love to read an explanation as to why the majority of items range from merchant value to 1.5 gold with the exception if it has a superior rune or is exotic zerker. Surely its not the fact that the AH crosses all servers or the fact that players are able to empty their bags and continue to farm pretty much unimpeded. There has to be some other kind of black magic wizardary going about :o
If you actually merchant anything but the green crests, i feel so sorry for you. Maybe read on How to Play Guild Wars 2 Course 101. There is a guide somewhere. Let me find you a link. Ah here it is
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Trading_Post
Good luck.
For obvious reasons please read this post with this voice in mind as well as im that guy and you being the one with the beard growing out of the neck region. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbRQ-PGQeQ4
I feel bad for me too. I easily make 100g super casual in a day not wasting time on trash and not selling t6 mats but I already have everything I want so I end up gambling it away to feel not as awkward around everyone having a hard time making gold o.0.
Yup Illconceived Was Na.9781 I indeed deliberately ignored the majority ( and by that obviously everything but trading aspect) of the topic because the topic itself was irrelevant to begin with. There is nothing in hot really to compare to eotn,
eotn
18 dungeons – yes you can say it was hard finding groups because of the heros….. but we’ll be real for a second if heros were in gw2 you wouldn’t be picked up here either. pug groups = gw2 hell15 map areas
unqiue armors
weapons
$19.99hot
0 dungeons
3 new weapon skins
a new armor….thats the same raincoat as the other raincoats with added blue stuff
4 maps
$49.99
as well as you get skills that completely break all other parts of the game.does that satisfy your needs? By all means do pm me, why else would I ask to hear your point. Don’t side step when you get called out mate.
Just the fact that you’re quoting the EotN price at $19.99 makes me question everything else you wrote. Because EotN was not $19.99 when it launched.
In fact, your entire comparison is biased based on say your love for dungeons. There was nothing in EoTN like the metas we have. There was no new character class. There were no real updates to how you played each of the professions you played. There was plenty of grind in the form of leveling up skills.
Yes, it did have dungeons. That’s what it had. And if dungeons weren’t your thing….those zones are not the kind of zones you could repeat long term. Most of them were quite simple. I’d rather have 1 hot zone than 10 of the EoTN zones.
It didn’t do anything for guild halls. It didn’t add anything like gliding which completely changes the game (and yes, gliding is now coming to core Tyria as well).
It feels like a biased comparison to me.
Thanks for the guide. I have 36 more MP I need to have HoT MP line done. This will take some time to do I see…:/ Still would like Anet to give you one MP everytime you gain a level, or maybe one every 2 levels.
It’s never going to happen because it would defeat the entire point of putting them behind content in the first place.
The idea is to drive people to do content, rather than just give it to them for something they’re doing anyway. If you want the points you do the content. That’s sort of the point.
Mastery points are a limited resource for a reason. You don’t need them all. You can choose not to do some of the content. But you have to actually play the game to progress.
When you make a claim you need to back it up. I’m not making claims I’m countering them. There are FAR more complaints about the personal story than there are about the HoT story. If you don’t believe it, goggle guild wars 2 personal story or PS and look.
No, no, no, no. That’s not how it works. Countering claims doesn’t mean you don’t have to support your own statements. You are saying that there are far more complaints for the Tyria PS. I don’t believe you because I’ve been here since beta and haven’t seen the number of complaints about the personal story that you claim. If you can back it up, please do so. Otherwise, don’t make such claims because you are not giving out accurate information.
They hated Trahearen.
Yes, a lot did. And I agree that they had a valid point. But that’s just one thing.
They added Arah story mode. Look it up.
They added Arah story mode to improve gameplay experience. It didn’t change the story at all. That’s twice you’ve trying to use that to support your claims.
What are you talking about. Arah story mode was the final step of the personal story before the epilogue. I have no idea what you’re on about.
You need examples about people complaining about the original story? You’ve never seen any complaints about it? I’m sure you can find your own complaints.
To be fair, you are the one making the claims about other people’s complaints about the original story. The burden is on you to provide them. While I do remember there were some (very few) complaints, I don’t recall them being the same as you do, and I don’t believe that there were as many as there are for HoT.
The original story seemed to go on forever. Anet even tried to shorten it but people who liked the story insisted it get restored. They tried to shorten it because people don’t play the original PS. For a lot of people is it too long. It seems to go on forever and a lot of it is just filler missions. The original PS is some of the least compelling content in the game in my opinion.
This is wrong and is why you need to support your statements. Anet changed the story because they changed how you level and get rewards from the story. It was not significantly shorter at any time. At that time, I recall the only complaints were that the story was out of order and missing sections that caused it to not make sense. People want logical consistency to their stories. People want their stories to make sense. If they are not logically consistent, then it needs to be explained. This is basic writing.
Complaints were varied, not just in the length of the final mission but its anticlimactic nature. Or the fact that once you hit level 60, no matter how many alts you have you’re basically doing the same stuff over and over again.
Actually, the only complaints I remember were that the final mission was anti-climatic, which is more of a complaint about how that mission was designed and not the story. In fact, the story from Fort Trinity up to the final mission was not bad. You got to see how the dragon was being weakened. You got to see how the Pact pushed forward into Orr. You can nitpick here and there on it, but the fundamental story was strong.
HoT’s story was objectively nonsense. You go from seeing the pact struggle to recover from Mordremoth’s assault to being able to mount an attack on the dragon itself within a few days (or less). Characters behave inconsistently and unbelievably. It’s not well explained and doesn’t make sense. This is bad storytelling no matter how you look at it. Yes, the only thing the HoT story has going for it is that it is short, if you want that.There have been many complaints about the short story but the biggest thing you’ll notice is how many people don’t do it at all. That should tell you something. It really is a long drawn out process unless you love story.
You seem to be confusing complaints about the story being too short with what a short story is. People aren’t complaining that HoT is a short story (it is not), they are complaining that the story is too short. This is a very different argument. Also, about what you are saying about these “many people.” If you are talking about professional writers, of which some of us are, you are wrong. No one would write a short story like HoT and expect it to get published. It is not focused and contains a lot of extraneous material that distracts from the primary plot/theme (which is non-existent also, tbh). HoT is better described as a chapter in a much longer story. But again, the type of story it is not the problem with it. Nor is it what people are complaining about.
As for your comments about fiction, unfortunately that was my profession. You really don’t want to explain everything in most short stories these days, for a reason. They would no longer be short stories. You can’t explorer every avenue in a shorter work and HOT IS a shorter work.
Sigh. A good short story doesn’t leave so many loose ends to begin with. It doesn’t spend significant time in frog villages, egg trials, and empty cities, when its primary story is about a war with a dragon. HoT is not a short story!
The HoT story accomplished what it was supposed to accomplish. We absolutely 100% do not have to know everything about Caithe’s reasons, because she’s not there as a main character, she’s there to drive events forward. We may see in the future more of her motivation, but I think obvious that just like Trahearne knew he had to heal Orr, she knew she had to get the egg to the jungle. No one asks why or how Trahearne knows that, we just know it’s his wild hunt. We know it. We don’t have to question it.
Semantically, we don’t need to know much of anything. We don’t need to know why Mordremoth is attacking or captured our allies. We certainly didn’t need to know that Rata Novus knew that dragons had a weakness. However, while we don’t need to know, some things make for a weaker story when we don’t know. Good writers recognize what should be explained further and what shouldn’t. HoT is not good writing. LS2 was HoT’s prelude and it focused heavily on Caithe. HoT pretty much gave us the conclusion to that story arc. But it didn’t. It feels like a major part of the story of LS2 and HoT is left untold. These weren’t setup like mysteries to be solved (a crutch Anet leans far to heavy on), but like they were simply forgotten.
You’re questioning it because you want to find flaw.
Um, you can’t tell us what someone else’s motivations are. You can tell us what your motivations are, but I think we can all see them clearly.
The Heart of Thorns story was made to be shorter, because the first story was too long for a lot of people. Personal source is people I’ve talked to, which is annecdotal. A more important source would be how many people never do it on a second character, which Anet would know and I don’t.
What you are saying is that you have no evidence to back up your claims. You constantly request others to back up their claims and have even said that is why you post so frequently in complaint threads. If you really want people to make claims with verifiable evidence, I recommend setting the example yourself.
I’m sorry, but the HoT story is not good at all. There may be parts of it that are good, but overall it is a disappointing experience. Recommending HoT for the story would be a disservice to potential players.
When you make a claim you need to back it up. I’m not making claims I’m countering them. There are FAR more complaints about the personal story than there are about the HoT story. If you don’t believe it, goggle guild wars 2 personal story or PS and look.
Most people know this, because it was obvious from being on here. People hated the personal story. They hated Trahearen. They added Arah story mode. Look it up.
At the moment I wouldn’t consider it at all, and I will never pre purchase from them again. The fact they even mention another xpac at this point makes me ill.
Yeah I know, my first thought was “well aren’t you gonna finish hoT first?” I mean they haven’t even released 25% of the new legendaries, WvW is a mess, only 1 Stronghold map released… Not even gonna mention raids…
Creating expansion takes years. They started working on HoT right after the main game release. You know, company like ArenaNet has many teams and each works on something else. From what I have read about the balance between regular updates and expansions, I understand that we should expect new story update every 4-6 weeks and that way we can go kill another dragon in 2 years instead of 3. I think that is nice….
I don’t believe they started working on HoT right after the main game released. I think they had other plans to move forward with the living story and it didn’t work out, so they had to scramble. Some of the projects, obviously, were already in the works though.
Very simple comparison for me. EOTN seemed like a fun expansion to a great game, and it was. On the other hand there is HoT, and seemed like a very kitteny expansion so I didnt get it.
I’m enjoying HoT as much as I enjoyed Eye of the North and in some ways more. For one thing, Eye of the North had less replay value for me, because I’m not particularly a dungeon runner. I ran all the dungeons in Heart of Thorns, but it was never my favorite content.
On the other hand gliding is a lot of fun, and to me it’s a major game changer. I love gliding around the jungle, particularly the canopy. I love trying to figure out how to get to places in the air without ever hitting the ground.
There are a lot of people having fun in HoT, despite what some on these forums might indicate.
All MMOs suck today because too many people who play these games don’t want to think. That’s the real issue.
If you’re looking for an MMO that expects the player to think critically without having their hand held, you should give the Secret World a try. It has something called Investigation Missions which often require you to answer riddles, research through real-world ancient texts based off hints, and translate from non-latin (or sometimes Latin itself) languages. It even has a built-in web browser specifically to facilitate these.
Just a thought.
Didn’t like the combat or the fact that the main character isn’t voiced. Every single quest felt like a monologue directed at me. I couldn’t immerse myself in a game where my character was a mute.
The expansion doesn’t explain it, because everything doesn’t need to be explained. Maybe you haven’t read a lot of books recently but there are many things in books that happen today that aren’t explained. Hell, short fiction today doesn’t have ending half the time anymore, at least in the traditional sense of the word.
People have always complained about this game because not everything was given to them on a silver platter. But this I have to know it now, as if the story is over and Caithe is dead is just impatience. Caithe can come back into the story and explain herself or she may not. But everything really doesn’t have to be explained. That’s just not how it works.
Also patronizing me by calling my comments cute really doesn’t make your arguments any stronger.
As for the Trahearne thing, well, no we went in trying to rescue Trahearne and talking to him came upon the solution of how we might attack something you can’t attack phyiscally.
It’s really only an issue if you’re looking for issues and let me tell you, if you want to find issues you can find them with any story or book. The problem isn’t the things you’re mentioning.
You liked the length and depth of the original story. The new story is different because it’s faster and doesn’t go into the same level of moment to moment detail and you don’t like the change.
Neither the point about Caithe or the point about figuring out how to beat the dragon is bad writing.
A lot of people complained the personal story was too long or the personal story was too boring so Anet stream-lined it, mostly like as a reaction to complaints.
The same thing happened in Guild Wars 1. People complained Prophecies was too long and too slow, so Anet made Factions. The story was fast, the game was half the size, it could be finished much faster and you leveled far too fast. Why? Because they were reacting to people’s complaints. Anet has a tendency to over-react, and that’s why the story is the length it is. Within a shorter story, particularly one that’s continuing, you don’t to explain everything at the moment.
Would it be interesting to hear Caithe’s story. Sure it would. Is it required to hear Caithe’s story. No. Because she’s a character that drives the action forward and she served her purpose in the story.
Again, in a novel where you have hundreds of pages, you put everything. In shorter stories, you often leave people to figure stuff out. It’s not bad writing and it’s not uncommon.
As for the later cub comment, there’s nothing really to explain. We know what the revenant is, and the story of Rytlock and what happened to him is not the story of HoT. These side passages don’t get explored in shorter stories for a reason. Then they become longer stories, which some people complain about.
A lot of people who love story complained that the expansion was too fast and didn’t give enough detail. A lot of people who don’t like story complained the original story was too long.
And because a game isn’t a book, Anet has to balance it out between people who don’t want a longer story and people who do. There will always be a percentage of people dissatisfied with the balance.
First of all, please give examples of people complaining about the length of the original story. I can’t remember it being an issue. The problem I remember, was the final battle, which wasn’t really a battle at all. There were a lot of complaints and that part was fixed, now we have a decent final battle (bugged though).
Secondly, the main issue is, that both personal stories came out unfinished. Defend it how you want, but the main reason for all those loopholes and questionable decisions is the expansion being rushed. That’s the main cause and this is where they fail once again.
About fiction that does not require explanation, yes, this kind of fiction exists. Those are complex stories, which leaves most of the stuff for the public to figure out. But aren’t you the one, who said that the video game story should do what it’s supposed to do? You were the one, who said that most people don’t give much attention to the story of a video game. So, was this story supposed to confuse those people even more? That was the purpose?
You see, the points you make does not connect. They are full of loopholes and they do not follow reason. Arguing with you is like playing HoT. I’m trying to understand what are you saying. Sometimes your points make some sort of sense, after a while they’re contradicting themselves, your jump from point to point for no resason, it’s hard to follow but I still try to. Just like playing HoT.
Wait, I figured it out. You are Heart of Thorns. You are a computer program trying to defend itself. That is just natural to you and all my efforts were in vain from the start.
You need examples about people complaining about the original story? You’ve never seen any complaints about it? I’m sure you can find your own complaints.
The original story seemed to go on forever. Anet even tried to shorten it but people who liked the story insisted it get restored. They tried to shorten it because people don’t play the original PS. For a lot of people is it too long. It seems to go on forever and a lot of it is just filler missions. The original PS is some of the least compelling content in the game in my opinion.
Complaints were varied, not just in the length of the final mission but its anticlimactic nature. Or the fact that once you hit level 60, no matter how many alts you have you’re basically doing the same stuff over and over again.
There have been many complaints about the short story but the biggest thing you’ll notice is how many people don’t do it at all. That should tell you something. It really is a long drawn out process unless you love story.
And in fact, how it’s drawn out in some ways, I consider worse writing than the writing on Heart of Thorns.
There were too many side stories that really weren’t that impactful, and didn’t need to be there, and probably shouldn’t have been there. The PS had so many characters that came out of left field, including Trahearne if you didn’t start with a Sylvari.
By contrast, you don’t have that problem in the HoT story because the story is basically the same for everyone, with the exception of some changes to the Sylvari character’s dialogue.
As for your comments about fiction, unfortunately that was my profession. You really don’t want to explain everything in most short stories these days, for a reason. They would no longer be short stories. You can’t explorer every avenue in a shorter work and HOT IS a shorter work.
The HoT story accomplished what it was supposed to accomplish. We absolutely 100% do not have to know everything about Caithe’s reasons, because she’s not there as a main character, she’s there to drive events forward. We may see in the future more of her motivation, but I think obvious that just like Trahearne knew he had to heal Orr, she knew she had to get the egg to the jungle. No one asks why or how Trahearne knows that, we just know it’s his wild hunt. We know it. We don’t have to question it.
You’re questioning it because you want to find flaw. But since you KNOW that the dream of dreams is incomplete, and you don’t get to see everything and there are sylvari that specialize in interpreting what you’ve seen (yes we know that from in game), then there’s no reason to assume that she had all knowledge. But she did know what she had to do. I’m not even sure why this is a conversation.
The Heart of Thorns story was made to be shorter, because the first story was too long for a lot of people. Personal source is people I’ve talked to, which is annecdotal. A more important source would be how many people never do it on a second character, which Anet would know and I don’t.
But yes, I believe Anet knows it was too long.
Sure, the core game has similar kitten faeces in some places. I don’t do those. And that leaves me with a plenty of game to enjoy. HoT is kitten faeces all over and a terrible waste. No variety in content at all.
No variety? So raids are the same as dynamic events are the same as adventures, are the same as the new PvP map, are the same as the story, is the same as guild halls and the precursor collections?
Okay then.
Yeah, I was looking at that page when I made that post. It’s what inspired it.
So all the hullabaloo is about loot I don’t want or need without what I play games for to begin with: interesting gameplay? Because I haven’t found any in that area. Everywhere I go people do stuff with lots of sound and fury, and I’m tagging along doing pretty much nothing at all because why bother, the game plays itself for me on a full map with driven people. It’s embarrassing to think that’s a GW2 area.
Funny I think the game play is quite interesting. If you’re doing nothing at all you’re leeching. Someone has to do the work. It’s funny you think that something a bunch of people are enjoying is embarrassing.
Really? You think it’s interesting to run from place to place in a herd of people so tightly packed you can’t see your own character, firing off attacks at enemies you can only identify by merit of their red name tags, apart from some bigger boss type creatures?
And then there’s the squad joining invitations popping up ever so often. Yeah, like I want every visual aspect of the game to be drowned out in even more useless clutter, like dozens upon dozens of blue player name tags you can’t turn off for some reason. Beneath it all there’s a nice looking game I’d imagine.
I happily leeched the run I did, because actually participating was the most terrible experience this game ever offered me in terms of, well, everything. I hung back occasionally shooting at something veering close enough. I also took every opportunity I could to wander off and explore the map, and finished it completely during that one run, using 7 scrolls of maguuma heroics to deal with the HPs. I finished with 200% participation. Yay me.
I guess you play differently from me. I’m seldom in a pack of people. I ride the sidelines looking for threats some people are ignoring, like snipers taking a bunch of people down. I help call targets. I’m pro active.
I’m sorry that for some reason you can’t tell what you’re doing, but I can sure tell what I’m doing.
“equal dev time”
I.E. This is something we did but have now abandoned and will not update ever again except for superficial slaps in the face.
i.e. dungeons
i.e. SAB
i.e. Fractals
i.e. Legendary weapons in 2013
i.e. Precursor scavenger huntYeah…
I’m guessing you’re wrong on a few things and the precursor crafting is in many ways a precursor scavenger hunt, so that’s in the game. The fractals I’m sure will be getting more attention. Saying something didn’t get attention in the past is pretty much irrlevant since we did get stuff we didn’t know we were going to get that many people liked.
There’s constructive critique and there’s complaining to complain. This accomplished nothing.