Guild Wars 2

In the past, no new legendaries were introduced. My guess is we’ll see new legendaries quarterly, but it’s just a guess.

kolompi.1287:

Vayne.8563:

OP, this type of response is EXACTLY the reason why Anet is reluctant to share stuff with us. Instead of saying you don’t feel that you go enough you have to use words like misled as if it was something done deliberately to you.

All this type of post is going to accomplish is for Anet to tell us less in the future. It’s not helpful or constructive.

It’s better if they don’t tell us anything. They have been inconsistent, they’ve put flat out lies in official patch notes. So don’t believe a single word they say or write, anywhere, ever.

There have been mistakes. Unless you can prove intent, it’s not lies. The more people say this, the less they tell us. Then people complain that they don’t communicate. Well, we can clearly see here the reason.

If you do 10,000 things a day, you’re going to make 100 mistakes. That’s just being human. No company produces perfect patch notes, or says things that turn out not to be true. It doesn’t mean they weren’t true to the person’s knowledge when they said it. And that doesn’t constitute a lie by any definition I know.

Eldbrand Charging.8902:

Vayne.8563:

Eldbrand Charging.8902:

Vayne.8563:

OP, this type of response is EXACTLY the reason why Anet is reluctant to share stuff with us. Instead of saying you don’t feel that you go enough you have to use words like misled as if it was something done deliberately to you.

All this type of post is going to accomplish is for Anet to tell us less in the future. It’s not helpful or constructive.

They don’t tell us squat here on the official forum anyway, you have to go to an outside forum like Reddit to get any info from the dev’s.

Or you know, their youtube channel and their home page. Just about everything that’s appeared there gets discussed here and then you can go watch it.

Let me ask you this? Are you saying the changes we’re talking about where not discussed on this forum? Because I saw the discussions.

Please show the post made by any dev on this forum regarding the changes.

So the post on the forums has to be by a dev? lol Okay then.

There are posts, on this forum, about all sorts of stuff. There are also articles on the guild wars 2 home page, information in the game launcher, and a youtube channel where, pretty much every week, Anet goes over the upcoming stuff.

If you think posting to their web site isn’t good enough, I’m sorry. You should check out the web site.

And if you’re on the forum, you’ll find threads discussion all the articles posted to the website.

The game launcher and the website give you the relevant info.

It’s an old one but I saw a ranger with a moa named Im with Stupid

Jana.6831:

jheryn.8390:

Jana.6831:

TheOnlyGingerPig.5642:

Sad about Revenant nerf… like to press one button… try the new overpowered class of thief….

Can I say it? Yes, I can:

No one cares about PvE.

You can say it. You’re wrong. But you can indeed say it.

I care very much about PvE. I enjoy it a lot.

Can someone tell me why I didn’t get the ballot to vote on Jana getting to speak for everyone?

None of my friends cares for PvE, none of the 10k players I’ve played wvw with cares for PvE.
The reasons I’ve already listed – we’re more than you think.

even if there are 10k players playing WvW, if there are half a million people playing the game, that doesn’t really amount to a large percentage. You may thing 10k is a very big number, but it’s likely not.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

OtterPaws.2036:

They added a various jumping pads around the world, if that counts.

They have? I’ve only heard about the ones at The Shatterer.

There’s at least one in Orr west of rally waypoint. Takes you to the temple. It’s very nice.

IndigoSundown.5419:

In early GW2, 90% (or more) of what could be done in zones could be done solo or in twos. In Orr, this shifted, but not all that much. Since DT/SW, GW2 zones have been all about the zone meta and precious little else. Anything else is an afterthought. There are some things to do, but very little, especially in comparison to early GW2.

So, why the change? Since launch, there have been consistent complaints about lack of stuff to pursue. So, Anet made more rewards, starting with Ascended. Where did they put these rewards? Other than in fractals, PvE rewards went into larger-scale content, like Champion bags (with scaled-up events being the best source) and the meta bosses.

So, what happens is that that stuff is what’s getting repeated. The other stuff is still there, but it gets ignored for the most part. There are even (many) complaints about having to level alts through the same “boring” content. Metrics say that large group events are a hit and regular events and exploration are a miss as far as player retention and replay-ability go.

Then, we get to HoT. Rather than design 90% or so of HoT as solo content and 10% large-group stuff, ANet decides not to bother. Vets by-and-large demonstrate daily they don’t care about the solo stuff. Why waste the resources on large swaths of content that will be done once (if at all) then ignored in favor of the Loot Pinata of the Moment?

Meanwhile, expansions from other games (including GW) provided a lot of solo content, with some group stuff also. In most cases, this accompanied a level rise, but Eye of the North demonstrated it didn’t have to. However, HoT is a departure from that method, and is going to be a disappointment to anyone who had expectations that a GW2 XPac would be like other games’ XPacs in that regard.

This is a fair assessment but in my opinion it’s also missing something.

I don’t think that Anet went to this harder stuff just because so many people were asking for it. I think they went with harder stuff because it was almost completely absent from the open world. That is it was kitten in their offering. That doesn’t mean this is a change in direction. It means they were filling in what’s missing.

The new shatterer fight isn’t as hard as the Tech fight and a lot of people seem to like it. It’s just that there was so little hard content in the game, that Anet needed to make something for players who like that too.

It doesn’t mean they’ve abandoned casuals. It means the development cycle takes so long that they can’t do everything all at once.

Granrey.8920:

Vayne.8563:

There’s plenty of strategy on the map, you’re just not employing that strategy. However, in battle you’re not necessarily supposed to be fighting 1v1 either. If you could pull every single enemy without agrroing any other enemy, then HoT would be pointless. I can’t imaging going through the zone one enemy at a time.

Plenty of guardians do perfectly well in HoT so the question becomes what are they doing that you’re not?

Could you please elaborate on your strategies?

All I see is hanging on bosses and mobs close to rally points. In any other places people are either glidind and bouncing on mushrooms.

How do you take several mobs at once?

Different strategies with different professions but the main thing is to learn to prioritize. For example you can kite many of the bigger slower mobs, while taking out the faster more dangerous ones. I take out snipers first. Because they can hurt. I leave stuff like tendrils till most other stuff is dead. I also learn to use the terrain.

If you want I can run the some VB with you and show you what I do. It’s a lot easier than typing it.

Eldbrand Charging.8902:

Vayne.8563:

OP, this type of response is EXACTLY the reason why Anet is reluctant to share stuff with us. Instead of saying you don’t feel that you go enough you have to use words like misled as if it was something done deliberately to you.

All this type of post is going to accomplish is for Anet to tell us less in the future. It’s not helpful or constructive.

They don’t tell us squat here on the official forum anyway, you have to go to an outside forum like Reddit to get any info from the dev’s.

Or you know, their youtube channel and their home page. Just about everything that’s appeared there gets discussed here and then you can go watch it.

Let me ask you this? Are you saying the changes we’re talking about where not discussed on this forum? Because I saw the discussions.

mulzi.8273:

TexZero.7910:

Deotronomio.1962:

Massively Multiplayer Online means that alot of people get into a game to play it, not that you are obligated to play with groups of people. We should have the choice to play solo or with groups of people.

Show me the gun to your head that’s obligating you play with others ?

Cause lets all be real here….you can do pretty much everything (sans boss killing/100% meta progression) solo in HoT.

Put yourself in a solo persons mindset for 2 minutes. You go through HoT trying to get map completion and complete about 90% of it purely solo. Another 5% may be possible with alot of effort (which is fine). Then there is 5% that is utterly unsoloable (eg. a few champ HPs).

So you find folks to help with those. Great, you have all the maps completed. Now what? Everything at that point on requires a group to advance anything. You want to work towards a legendary? Great! But they soul bound enough components and place these behind group content. Okay, maybe you can work towards a private guild hall? Nope, they took that away to, large guilds only. So what does a solo person have to work towards after map completion? Anything they do from that point on does not contribute to anything, unless they group up. Even skins dont drop from mobs unless your in a group instance.

I’m not saying they need more solo content. They just need to work in an angle so solo folks can attain the same goals as group oriented folks. But gold farmers pretty much destroyed this, as well as the cry babies that kitten and complain that someone got the same shiny as them and diminished the value of their item, at least in their eyes.

Legendaries always required group content. unless you were good enough to solo dungeons. Most people aren’t. They also needed, for a long long time, getting world completely in WvW, which they no longer need. I found that harder than anything in HoT.

The game has always had content you can’t solo including Temples in Orr or big world bosses. Solo players don’t complain about those.

So meta events with people running around are also things solo players shouldn’t complain about.

Do solo players solo the Silverwastes? No. Because you need people at each fort. You need people in each lane with Vinewrath. Solo players don’t complain about this.

The only possibly legit complaint is that you can’t solo getting from one place to another, because everything else was already in the game.

Solo players have always needed other people. They just don’t want to have to group up. And they don’t.

Big pluses…. the check box to see items you can interact with in the world without holding control. My pinky thanks you.

Gliding in core Tyria, outstanding. Adding the jump pads in certain places like Rally way point to get to the temple fight…I didn’t expect that. Well done.

The Shatterer fight is pretty much where I expected it to be. Good job there.

I love new markers for the squad UI. It means when we have something like the quaggan guild challenge or the skritt, when be break into subgroups we can use the markers as auxillary tags on people running different subgroups so we don’t have to break the squad to make more squads, only to reform after.

I haven’t had a chance to test all the balance changes, but I think the chronomancer was hit too hard. It was OP before but too much depends on alacrity for a change to alacrity to be good without being touched by other skills that depend on it. Chronomancer definitely needed a nerf, but I don’t think the way it was nerfed is overall good for the profession.

Lampshade.7569:

Forum-PvP is the real GW2 esport.

I think I’m up there on the leaderboard!

This is why I get more info from reddit than the official forums. Sure sometimes it’s negative as well, but there are by percentage far more posts useful to me.

psyt.9415:

Coulter.2315:

psyt.9415:

My sentiments exactly. You have a portion of the game that people love and enjoy and is paying your bills but instead of keeping them happy you chase after a much smaller segment of your playerbase kittenimn off your core market in the process. Learn from FFXIV figure out what is making you money and stick with it. FFXIV don’t give a crap about no arenas its in the game but they aren’t dumb after 1.0s failure they know now to keep their fans happy which in that game is dungeons. There is a huge hole in the market for wvw players that guild wars could be eating it but instead they let all those players walk away unadressed so they can chase after arenas. Just stick to pve expacs and wvw and call it a day. It’s like taking your wife’s money and spending it on another woman what anet is doing.

I think you’ve mixed up 2 (possibly more) issues;
1) a marketing budget for tPvP tournament
2) WvW new borderland wasn’t popular
If anet didn’t spend money on a PvP tournament (for marketing purposes) do you think 2) gets solved by a wizard?

I don’t think you understood any of what I said apparently.

1) The fact is the wvw update is almost a year out no one likes the new bl and they are quitting the game. Does that mean they should wait that long to address it?

2) Any budget is capital that could be allocated to developing other resources ie making those changes or completing living story sooner.

3) definitely not a wizard

I think you’re laboring under the assumption that throwing more money at a problem will fix the problem. I can tell you first hand that’s not necessarily the case. Even if they hired more developers for WvW, they’d have to stop to train those developers.

It would likely create a delay in release. Not speed it up.

There’s an old saying, too many chefs spoil the broth. That seems to work in programming as well.

They have a team that’s working on it. They have a group of testers testing it. They will release it when they feel confident it solves the problem. Adding money to what they’re doing will not likely change a kitten thing.

Fade to Black.7042:

Vayne.8563:

Fade to Black.7042:

Yes thanks Anet i quit today.

Yesterday i’ve tried condi rev power rev , and everything, i kept being overwhelmed by thieves necros and warriors bcuz thats the only thing you see in the arena.

I loved my revenant from the begining until yesterday, now i hate it bcuz it just impossible to win. out of 20 matches i’ve won 2, before was 55% win lose rate.

Now i can play diablo3 new season.

Every time there’s a patch that nerfs anything there’s going to be someone that leaves the game. Good PvPers will adapt to the changes, because that’s what good PvPers do.

What you’re essentially saying is you can’t win battles with auto attack anymore. I’m pretty sure that wasn’t the way PvP was meant to be played in the first place.

You cleary didn’t tested the new rev, the AA nerf had didn’t affect much in pvp, but the facet of light can’t be cast while c/c’ed, UA doing less dmg overall while was used to evade it is not as effective as before. Precision strike doesn’t hit the same target, so it was not a “buff” still the same crap, took away quickness effect while taking out downed people while thieves just hide while doing it (not fair) , shield 5 healing was nerfed, the teait that granted stab after dodge was given a 5 second ICD, when really it was the GM trait in Herald that gave an extra stack of stab when you got stab that needed the ICD.

Yea good pvp’ers adapt —> moving to necro’s and thieves lol

Swapping professions in a game that requires no leveling time in PvP is absolutely 1 way you can adapt. Not sure why you think that’s funny. On the other hand I haven’t seen a huge outcry about the revenant either, very very few people saying what you’re saying. Since it was the most recent profession released it would likely be a fairliy popular one, but there’s no way of discontent here. There’s not a million posts on reddit about it. There are two guys in a single thread, with very little support.

AriaFiresong.7023:

I have more love for Forgal, but it’s probably because I joined the Vigil first…
Still, good to hear the Apple Cult getting their lord and master to assist them. I await the son of the last Dolyak Shaman.

Forgal has one of my favorite lines in the game. Just before you enter the sewers with him he says, this place smells like a norn ale house on curry night. lol

Fade to Black.7042:

Yes thanks Anet i quit today.

Yesterday i’ve tried condi rev power rev , and everything, i kept being overwhelmed by thieves necros and warriors bcuz thats the only thing you see in the arena.

I loved my revenant from the begining until yesterday, now i hate it bcuz it just impossible to win. out of 20 matches i’ve won 2, before was 55% win lose rate.

Now i can play diablo3 new season.

Every time there’s a patch that nerfs anything there’s going to be someone that leaves the game. Good PvPers will adapt to the changes, because that’s what good PvPers do.

What you’re essentially saying is you can’t win battles with auto attack anymore. I’m pretty sure that wasn’t the way PvP was meant to be played in the first place.

Deotronomio.1962:

Massively Multiplayer Online means that alot of people get into a game to play it, not that you are obligated to play with groups of people. We should have the choice to play solo or with groups of people.

You have the choice to play solo. No one said that you can’t play solo. A lot of of people do solo. That also doesn’t mean there can’t be or shouldn’t be some things in the game you can’t solo.

There’s plenty of strategy on the map, you’re just not employing that strategy. However, in battle you’re not necessarily supposed to be fighting 1v1 either. If you could pull every single enemy without agrroing any other enemy, then HoT would be pointless. I can’t imaging going through the zone one enemy at a time.

Plenty of guardians do perfectly well in HoT so the question becomes what are they doing that you’re not?

OP, how many mastery points does it say you have in the upper right hand corner of your screen when you hit H, under the Heart of Maguuma?

They definitely should have made it jam of the month club.

Alveda.8409:

Vayne.8563:

Daddicus.6128:

Vayne.8563:

Answer. Legendaries were never meant to be casual. The trade off is they’re not required either. Early on, when people asked Eric Flannum if there would be stuff to grind for, he said, yes, but there wouldn’t be required grind.

This is where your legendaries fall, and to a lesser degree ascended weapons.

Not really. Raids require at least full-ascended gear. The GAME doesn’t require them, but there are virtually no teams who will accept less. And, the game doesn’t punish people for being exclusive.

However, you’re missing the point. Flannum said no required grind. But HoT is essentially nothing BUT grind.

Except casual guilds attempting to do them which accept less. If you insist on pugging you play by pug rules. If you run with a casual guild the rules change.

A lot of people start with ascended jewelry which is easy to get, and maybe ascended weapons. People in guilds. If you want to pug, you can always make your own pug group and say all welcome, no ascended required. I bet it fills.

Lots of casual guilds can’t pass Gorseval DPS check. Of course, an all welcome pug raid group would fill, but they probably can’t even phase Vale Guardian and repeatedly wipe on Green Circle. That was my experience of pugging raid for the first two weeks. Raid is not for casual. If you can’t bother to invest in full ascended character, no serious raid group will consider you. Casual raid group may, but you can enjoy your Gorseval wipe.

Well the thing is we have someone who’s an admitted casual, complaining about the fact that pugs are requiring ascended armor to clear raids. The whole question is disingenuous when phrased this way.

But if someone ABSOLUTELY wanted to try raids in exotics, they wouldn’t beat even the first boss. Because raids were NEVER made for casuals. Anet said as much.

Saying I’m a casual and I don’t have the gear to raid is like me saying I don’t have the gear to do brain surgery. I shouldn’t need that gear, because I’m not a brain surgeon.

OP, this type of response is EXACTLY the reason why Anet is reluctant to share stuff with us. Instead of saying you don’t feel that you go enough you have to use words like misled as if it was something done deliberately to you.

All this type of post is going to accomplish is for Anet to tell us less in the future. It’s not helpful or constructive.

Daddicus.6128:

Vayne.8563:

Answer. Legendaries were never meant to be casual. The trade off is they’re not required either. Early on, when people asked Eric Flannum if there would be stuff to grind for, he said, yes, but there wouldn’t be required grind.

This is where your legendaries fall, and to a lesser degree ascended weapons.

Not really. Raids require at least full-ascended gear. The GAME doesn’t require them, but there are virtually no teams who will accept less. And, the game doesn’t punish people for being exclusive.

However, you’re missing the point. Flannum said no required grind. But HoT is essentially nothing BUT grind.

Except casual guilds attempting to do them which accept less. If you insist on pugging you play by pug rules. If you run with a casual guild the rules change.

A lot of people start with ascended jewelry which is easy to get, and maybe ascended weapons. People in guilds. If you want to pug, you can always make your own pug group and say all welcome, no ascended required. I bet it fills.

Coulter.2315:

Doam.8305:

Even in GW1 they knew to make challenging maps a side item the problem with HoT is that this isn’t the case at all. In GW1 the story path or the main path is casual friendly as it always should be in any game however once you walk of the beaten path you’ll end up in more difficult content however in HoT the main story path and this more difficult content is one in the same.

I would contest this assertion, I would say the GW:EN maps were about as difficult as HoT maps (Tarnished Coast maps and Depths of Tyria). Do you remember the large groups of dinosaurs and krait? My memory isn’t what it was but I do remember groups of mobs that were dangerous.

I agree with this. There were story steps you had to get to and packs of raptors patroled and if you took the time to fight one, there was a roaming group of mixed dinosaurs that came through that would just wipe you if you weren’t careful/didn’t know what you were doing/didn’t build for the encounter.

In fact, there were often really powerful dinosaurs you’d start fighting and then you’d get a raptor patrol on top of you. The open world was much harder than the story missions in Guild Wars 1 and we didn’t hear a lot of complaints about the design.

The fact is, anyone can learn to play this content without too much effort. I’ve helped teach quite a few people how to get through it.

Soon.5240:

Vayne.8563:

The pocket raptors are there for a reason. To stop people from running running running and skipping, thus trivializing content. They add and addition layer of thought to the game.

But running past them is exactly what most people do — once they are familiar with the maps. Kitten knows that killing them does little to chip away at the 4m+ XP that Anet gated their “mastery” content behind.

My post was to highlight that not everyone who dislikes HoT maps does so because they are “hard” (which seems the be the knee-jerk, Pavlovian response of most white knights when any criticism of HoT is posted to the forums).

Even some long time players just don’t like the fact that Anet chose the easy route of eschewing the core PvE game’s thoughtful, immersive, exploration and RPG’ing for tired old HP sponges, XP gating, lather-rinse-repeat single-meta-event maps, timers, break bars and platform Adventures.

These are what you can find in “dozens and dozens of games”. Most of them needn’t even be MMO’s.

The core Tyria maps WERE what made GW2 unique – and Anet turned their back on them.

Edit: WvW was also unique – before they deliberately nerfed it in order to push people into their esport PvP. Now, it’s just dead.

But many people do not like them because they’re hard, and you know, hard doesn’t ONLY mean hard to kill. If you find them confusing then they are HARD to navigate, which is also hard for people.

Daddicus has trouble getting around, he finds that difficult which is another way of saying hard.

You can say that hard only means creatures are hard, but I say it doesn’t matter if people find the creatures hard or the navigation hard. The bottom line is they’re having difficulty.

sED.9342:

I started reading this thread and i had to stop at the end of the first page. guy is making a great point of how the game is casual. and yes, it is. but i laughed and just about fell out of my chair when hes calling a TWO YEAR grind to craft a legendary casual. there is NOTHING casual about two years. so your telling me after about 20 years of playing this game i will have a full inventory of legendary gear. somebody please tell me how crafting legendary gear is casual. it is the dumbest most unmotivating grind i have ever encountered in any game.

Answer. Legendaries were never meant to be casual. The trade off is they’re not required either. Early on, when people asked Eric Flannum if there would be stuff to grind for, he said, yes, but there wouldn’t be required grind.

This is where your legendaries fall, and to a lesser degree ascended weapons.

Soon.5240:

Vayne.8563:

Daddicus.6128:

Vayne.8563:

But it’s just your opinion that open world content should be laid back. And fun is absolutely a matter of opinion. I don’t really love challenging content all the time, but HoT isn’t really challenging so much as a learning curve.

I don’t call HoT zones challenging. I call them absurd. Not absurdly hard, but just absurd. To be locked out artificially for any period of time with no story element involved is just crazy. And to have maps that even the most dedicated and hardcore players have admitted are crazy hard to navigate, well that was just dumb.

Even the events and wandering creatures aren’t challenging. They’re just exercises in knowing when to flee because the spawn rate is too high. That’s not challenging, either.

Challenging would be new creatures that you have to do new things to defeat. HoT merely upped their power levels. So far, I haven’t had a single event or story mission that I would call challenging.

What you’re calling crazy has been done in dozens and dozens of games throughout history. And you can do it, you just gave up.

It’s really really not that hard.

I offered to teach people how to go through the new zones and not one person took me up on it. People just want to complain.

Daddicus is not calling them “hard” just absurd. I don’t have any problem with any NPC (you learn to zig when they zag) but I don’t find the increased HP to be challenging, hard or innovative. As you admit, “it’s been done in dozens and dozens of game….” .

So much the sadder.

My “ah” moment with HoT was in the AB map. Somewhere in the SW corner of the map, I was perched in a tree, looking to make my way east, and I saw six (6) pocket raptor groups on the trail. This was the straw that broke this camel’s back.

The issue was not that a group of pocket raptors is hard (they are not). It was my thinking, “Sweet Kitten, three years waiting for an expansion, and this is all that Anet could think of ? Speed bump after speed bump, after speed bump?”

I mean, sure, I could have killed one group after another, but then I remembered that I have standards and dignity and a sense of what constitutes good game design. It wasn’t much long after that I just gave up on expecting the HoT maps to provide me anything more than loathing and a regret that I spent fifty dollars on the work of such pedestrian game designers.

As you say, I can get this in dozens and dozens of games…..

Most of them for free.

Ah how you love to misinterpret what I said.

Look, there are swords and dozens and dozens of games,. so there should be no swords on this one. Oh this a sword, this game must be bad. What a ridiculous claim.

The person I was responding to suggested that having content gated by having to do something else first was somehow ridiculous. It’s a major part of the game system. We already have high level fractals which gate people without enough AR. Saying something is crazy that’s done in a lot of games doesn’t make the game bad.

The pocket raptors are there for a reason. To stop people from running running running and skipping, thus trivializing content. They add and addition layer of thought to the game.

But I’ve never played an MMO that had a zone really anything like the way the zones in HoT were laid out, even though the basic tenets of game design may have been used.

If you really think HoT is like other MMO expansions, then I dont’ really know what to tell you. They didn’t introduce a new tier of armor. They didn’t raise the level cap and they did some pretty clever stuff with some of the way the events work.

And yes, some stuff worked better than others, but the way you misconstrued my post isn’t going to change anything.

How many MMORPGs do you know what don’t raise the level cap or introduce a new tier of gear with an expansion?

Daddicus.6128:

Vayne.8563:

But it’s just your opinion that open world content should be laid back. And fun is absolutely a matter of opinion. I don’t really love challenging content all the time, but HoT isn’t really challenging so much as a learning curve.

I don’t call HoT zones challenging. I call them absurd. Not absurdly hard, but just absurd. To be locked out artificially for any period of time with no story element involved is just crazy. And to have maps that even the most dedicated and hardcore players have admitted are crazy hard to navigate, well that was just dumb.

Even the events and wandering creatures aren’t challenging. They’re just exercises in knowing when to flee because the spawn rate is too high. That’s not challenging, either.

Challenging would be new creatures that you have to do new things to defeat. HoT merely upped their power levels. So far, I haven’t had a single event or story mission that I would call challenging.

What you’re calling crazy has been done in dozens and dozens of games throughout history. And you can do it, you just gave up.

It’s really really not that hard.

I offered to teach people how to go through the new zones and not one person took me up on it. People just want to complain.

Aenaos.8160:

maddoctor.2738:

Aenaos.8160:

maddoctor.2738:

Aenaos.8160:

Take the meaningful content and shove it,inside the Raids I mean.

Then next time instead of 4 maps and a raid they should add 2 maps, 1 raid and at least 4-5 more challenging instanced dungeons. You want them to add far less open world content and instead make the game instance-heavy, congratulations.

I want open world content to be open world content,and Raids to be Raids.
If you like harder content you should be expected to play such content in
instances,because hard content in the open world makes the game inaccessible
for the majority of the population.
The ratio between open world content and instanced raid content should be
balanced always in favour of the open world content,since that is what most of
the players will definitely play,not only in GW2 but in every other MMO as well.

If an instance is hard it will also be inaccessible for those who can’t beat it, what’s the difference with it being in the open world?

And you are wrong about the ratio, in most MMORPGs out there the open world content is used mostly to level up until you reach the cap and start doing instances and raiding. GW2 was/is one of the few MMORPGs that you can play exclusively in the open world and have nearly all the rewards, bar a few cosmetic ones and some tiny few others. That’s because GW2 has the dynamic event system which allows the open world content to scale to the number of players and although some group events require organization, it’s not like doing raids or any other instanced content – level of organization.

Do you really want to turn GW2 into an other instance-heavy MMORPG where the majority of the population is hidden inside instances, both hard and easy ones, and the open world is just a playground while leveling? Or you want the open world to continue to offer multiple tiers of difficulty for all players to enjoy?

The difference is that a instanced Raid serves exactly that purpose.
It is hard content catered to a minority of the population that is into
playing such content.
By placing such content in instances you free up the open world for more
laid back and fun content.
Unfortunately the open world content in HoT is neither laid back nor fun.
Open world content should serve the purpose of being available and playable
by anyone and everyone.
In HoT there is no multiple tiers of anything.
It’s just one big tier of try hardiness and zergs.
And a lot of players are not enjoying and not playing HoT although they bought it.
I’m one of them.
If you have any doubts about this,check other related threads in this forum.

P.S And that don’t mean that the game should be more instanced based.

But it’s just your opinion that open world content should be laid back. And fun is absolutely a matter of opinion. I don’t really love challenging content all the time, but HoT isn’t really challenging so much as a learning curve.

By the definition you give, every zone should be a starting zone and there should be no end game zones, because some people will find them hard. There are people who never go into Orr because they find it too hard for them. Or Southsun. There are people who don’t go into Dry Top because the jumping is too hard for him.

An end game zone is always supposed to have some sort of challenge or it wouldn’t be the end game zone. But a lot of players aren’t particularly challenged by Orr any more, not just a couple a lot, and so a lot of them wanted something more challenging. Not just raiders. Not just hard core players. People used to gaming (which is quite a large number).

I find the HoT zones more fun than the core zone. They’re not as casual, but they’re not really hard core either. They do, however, have a learning curve.

sirsquishy.8531:

I love what HoT brought to GW2, I just do not like HoT. I went through HoT to get what I wanted out of it (all Elite specs, story done on my main 3 characters, and the required masteries to get the story done with maxed Gliding for the upcoming patch). Just finished the Gliding max mastery last Tuesday. Since then, I have not stepped into a HoT zone not even to raid.

But you know what? Aside from RAIDs, I am not spending more then 5% of my time in HoT, anyway. Most of my time comes from doing FoTM (gearing more of my characters for the raids…really good Gold Flow from FoTM right now…its more fun then most other game modes for PVE…ect.), like 80% of my game time, then my weekly RAID, following by my nightly Teq and TT kills. In between I am cleaning inventory in LA or DR.

If I were to create a new character, I would probably run it through mapping to level instead of spending tomes (Id probably use an instant 30 scroll, to be honest) so that would put me back in classic zones for a while…but since I am getting gear from FOTM for my alts and such I dont really have a need to run through HoT zones to grind out gear once that alt would be level 80….not that HoT gives any kind of rewards like that anyway.

There really feels like there is a gap between what we get out of classic GW2 vs HoT over all. And I think the biggest question that needs asked is ‘what is the Point of HoT, Post release’. Because for the most part there isn’t one.

The point is HoT provides a different alternate experience to the core zones, for people who don’t care for instances ie raids and fractals.

What you’re really saying is I haven’t set foot in HOT because I prefer this content. But I spend most of my time in HoT because I prefer that content.

Anet was looking for holes in what was being offered in game. What wasn’t being offered in game was good open world challenges that weren’t world bosses. Something you could play that stepped you up a level in the open world. Orr is mostly too easy now. Southsun is okay but rather small. Dry Top is still fun for me, but I’ve done it a million times. Silverwastes is the best of the old maps for me, but again, I’ve played it to death.

So now I have four new maps with four new map metas that are more challenging than core tyria. Yes, I run fractals but I’ve yet to raid.

HoT provides an alternative. If HoT was like the rest of the game and gave us relatively flat, easy to navigate zones that weren’t challenging, it would have less point than it does now.

People would have finished them even faster and be ready for more. And what would have been the point of that?

Recent changes to the gliding mean you glitch less often. In fact, since the gliding change update, I’ve done the last story instance twice and it was far far easier to open your glider during that phase.

The change was that they moved the open glider command to client side. They didnt’ realize that the latency would quite affect gliding as much as it does on live and they fixed at least that part of it.

That said, there are quite a few bugs in the story and it’s frustrating in the extreme. Not to mention I really think whoever designed the penalty box concept should give a rethink as to what make a mechanic fun.

Quaked.7235:

Vayne.8563:

It’s at most an minor inconvenience.

Indeed it is. Although a clonky and awkward one. As for the looting of bags I believe AoE loot took care of that to some extent. Players being able to keep up with a “walking” NPC shouldn’t be much of an issue anyway. But as previously mentioned they’re only suggestions or drafts even. But something could be done here to fix both “issues” and leave the game a tad bit better!

I guess what I’m saying is that it’s not really worth developer time to fix a minor inconvenience. It’s not going to majorly affect my game one way or another, and the backlog of stuff to do/fix is pretty large.

Bezayne.6459:

Vayne.8563:

It takes literally a few minutes to redo the Karka Queen. Most jumping puzzles can be portaled with mesmers, and there are often mesmers portaling them. I’m not sure why it’s so hard to get more points for you, but many of them aren’t that hard.

By contrast the story achievement rewards are considered hard y a lot of people.

You know, I have done all jumping puzzles but the one in Silverwastes. And yes, Karka Queen is no problem. But that is 2 points, when to be able to craft one of the new legendaries I would need 12 points. At the end of the day the question is – is this game fun for me, and do I want to keep spending my time in it? If something is not fun, and impacting my enjoyment seriously enough, I will try and let the devs know about it. Which I am doing here. And that has nothing whatsoever to do with how much (or not) you enjoy the game, nor will you trying to dismiss my experience as invalid help matters in the slightest.

I don’t know anyone that’s enjoy every part of the legendary journey. It’s supposed to stretch you, hence it’s called a legendary.

I don’t enjoy running dungeons that much but each legendary requires 9 runs. I didn’t particularly enjoy map completion in WvW and many WvW people that want a legendary don’t enjoy map completion in PvE.

If you must have a legendary you’ll do what’s required to get it, but the game doesn’t require you to get one. If they remove everything from the process that everyone doesn’t like, then there’s be nothing you’d have to do to get one.

I like three of the ideas, but I think the pathing should stay as it is. In escort quests, people often have to run back to pick up drops, and that gives them a chance to to so. It’s at most an minor inconvenience.

Aenaos.8160:

maddoctor.2738:

Aenaos.8160:

Take the meaningful content and shove it,inside the Raids I mean.

Then next time instead of 4 maps and a raid they should add 2 maps, 1 raid and at least 4-5 more challenging instanced dungeons. You want them to add far less open world content and instead make the game instance-heavy, congratulations.

I want open world content to be open world content,and Raids to be Raids.
If you like harder content you should be expected to play such content in
instances,because hard content in the open world makes the game inaccessible
for the majority of the population.
The ratio between open world content and instanced raid content should be
balanced always in favour of the open world content,since that is what most of
the players will definitely play,not only in GW2 but in every other MMO as well.

First of all, I don’t think the new zones are inaccessible to the majority of the player base, and I think you’d have a hard time proving it. Very few guilds are as casual as my guild, we’re not raiding yet, for example, but everyone has been able to do the new zones.

Also you talked in another post about having to group for hero points. You don’t. You may need other people around for hero points, but that’s not the same as grouping.

In fact, there are many examples of things in the open world you can’t solo that were in the game before HoT, like temples in Orr.

The question is why you believe you absolutely need every hero point. If you get all the hero points in the open world, I think you need four hero points in all of HoT to unlock your elite specialization.

I can point you to four hero points that are either veterans or communes, without ever leaving verdant brink.

vesica tempestas.1563:

A raid is simply a dungeon that is aimed at 10+ players that tend to have more scope for complicated encounters,

Sort of how I see it, which is why I say that the 12 main instances in GW 1 would have qualified but not the 8 man instances, since that was the party size for dungeons too.

I’m guessing from what I’m hearing Steve, you must be an exceptional leader and I’m sorry I’ll never get to play with you.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

There is no “official” definition of a raid, there are just the precedents of what games have called Their Raids, I remember a day when WoW had 40 man raids, not 10, or 20, but 40. I will leave this here

“A raid is a type of mission in a video game in which a number of people attempt to defeat a boss monster or consecutive series of bosses. The term raid itself stems from the military definition of a sudden attack and/or seizure of some objective.”

Or
“A more substantial engagement involving a large organized group of players typically set in a dungeon and involving difficult bosses”

Okay so a dungeon is a raid by this definition.

Edit: I’ll go by what the developers call it. At no time did Anet call anything in Guild Wars 1 a raid. WoW has raids because it advertises raids.

When people asked for raids, they were asking for harder content but they were also asking for larger party size.

And even in Guild Wars 2, a raid requires entering a raid group, just like the other games I was playing. Again, The Deep and Urgoz definitely qualified as a raid, because you had more players.

Since there’s apparently no definition I have to go with the best one. And the best one comes from the company.

Hell in Guild Wars 1 right now you can do all the raids except Urgoz and the Deep with seven heroes. You can’t solo raids in any game I’ve played.

If you can’t do the events in Heart of Thorns, you’re doing something wrong, because there are plenty of people soloing them, including some pretty casual people in my guild. It doesn’t take huge numbers of people to experience the new zones, it takes a bit of thinking and planning. It’s only hard if you make it hard.

If you decide you can’t do it, no one will ever be able to change your mind…but it doesn’t mean that you can’t do it. It means you decided that it’s too hard and you don’t really want to learn how.

Berserk Steve.1530:

We killed it 4+ times a day on pug organised maps everyday EU for 3 months – I am sorry we didn’t meet but I literally mean we were getting hundreds/thousands it. Me being the only mainstay commander until I got a perfect Nuhoch commander.

Your experience was bad but that doesn’t mean it was everyones experience. Realistically we can’t judge how many people could do it versus couldn’t – but I just know that any single person that gave me a couple of hours of their time pre patch got a kill, and that is not ego – I was not doing anything anyone else with a commander tag and typing ability could not do themselves. The only time it was not worth trying was the weekend before midnight12:30 GMT spawn, and 6:30 GMT weekdays.

I’m in the US. It was pretty bad here a lot of the time. That’s my experience. It might be because I’m in Australia and not on US mainstream time, but it was bad.

Berserk Steve.1530:

THat doesn’t mean they have to break it though – the scaling is obviously horribly broken – The event requires no participation at all now – you no longer need to ensure the meta is done to help a lane, just get Nuhoch mushrooms and it’s fine. This cannot be the devs intention. And no I disagree, people can and were doing this steadily. Complaints are more vocal than people getting it. The people complaining before are mostly still failing now. Even though I thought that was all but impossible. If you check the threads about the TD meta actually, about 75% of posts were on single person. That’s off topic though – the event fix was just a spur that highlighted many of the negative aspects of the current design approach. I wanted to know I am not in the minority, and a lot of the people that agree with me in game are 25k AP + – Arenanets loyal customers. Thanks for the reply.

Truth is, I didn’t beat it before the fix and I play a lot. So, I guess I never ran into your group. I didn’t like not being able to finish it either.

It may be too easy now, but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t too hard before.

Ragnarox.9601:

All I know that I will be playing wow legion when it comes. Played in alpha as Shaman and this game have like 5,6 months to fix their issues and problems or I am out. Guess giving us minis and wings and all other pixel crap for 800 gems every week take too much resource for everything else. I am not happy about balancing of classes cause I haven’t even seen any balance except removing of amulets (in pvp). Core classes bad issues are ignored once again. I am seeing lots of white knights saying “oh I have sooo much fun running around doing stuff…” – well I guess fun is doing nothing and running around in my new Gem store item or legendary bought with real cash showing off…

Minis take almost no resources and artists aren’t people who fix bugs. Just saying.

Edit: Not everyone that disagrees with you or is having fun is a white knight. Using a term in a derogatory fashion to try to prove your point doesn’t prove your point at all. Plenty of people are running around having fun that aren’t white knights and don’t even come to the forums. That’s a fact.

Berserk Steve.1530:

Thank you all for the replies. It feels good to have so many agree, although try not to go too far off topic please

For people that say that is what your guild is for – like I Said we were building the guild from the people we were encountering but you need a good community environment to encounter people worth having in my opinion. I am not going to just map shout my guild full to have people to play areas.

We also recruit for our guild from having people we play with. It doesn’t mean events have to be punishingly hard though. For every person like you who plays a lot, there are causuals who don’t play much, can’t read map chat and play and there are probably more of them than there are of you.

Far more people complained about the TD meta than posted in this thread. It was a real problem for a lot of people.

runeblade.7514:

Winry.5897:

Sorry, this game is called a Massive Multiplayer or a Massive Single Player?

When the game gets a new expansion or there are new zones added. HoT content will be empty and it will be massive singleplayer regardless or not if HoT is rebalanced or not.

The difference is that players can access HoT content even when there are no players around.

Mega server makes this unlikely. Let’s say 10,000 people are playing PvE at the same time. I’m pretty sure that’s low, but let’s pretend.

If there are 50 maps, that’s an average of 200 people per map.

So obviously maps with meta events will have higher populations and events with no events like that will have lower populations. Let’s also assume that not all meta/map events are running at all times.

It’s quite easy to fill a map with something like the megaserver system.

People will complain about anything. It’s very easy to block someone accidentally. What should we do then? Contact customer support?

I’ve seen many complaints on these forums over the years, but I’ve never seen this one before, probably with good reason.

It’s not hypocritical to have something like this in the game. It’s practical.

MarkBecks.6453:

If you want to see if a game has lost its shine, go to you’re guild panel and have a look at non active players, and you will realise just how many people quit this game. Its not the game itself, its the changes with every patch.
Go to Verdant Brink, get 200% participation and see how many airship parts you get, or how many hours you have to grind on 1 map to buy one part for an achievement. (not worth the effort ^^).
Go to the mystic and pour out vast amounts of rares and get nothing other than another rare. I have noticed a change in drop rate with every patch, after 3 and a half years, I notice these things because I do them every day.
I know their is a community of players that wont leave due to the amount of time and effort they have put in here, but in all honesty, WvW borders are dead, PvP is a map of toxic players, and PVE has become nothing more than a marathon grind for a few pixels more.
What I cannot understand is that real issues that are killing this game are not taken seriously enough. So, I will still play, but my eyes are scanning the horizon for something better, and if map chat is anything to go by, I’m not alone.

Maybe you should have some patience. Changes don’t happen overnight. I believe Anet is aware of the frustration and will make changes to improve the game. The stuff people were complaining about two years ago, at least in PvE, are different than the stuff people are complaining about now.

But every change has to be implemented and then tested. So it takes time.

I remember a slew of complaints about having to complete WvW to get world completion but that’s not the case any more. I remember people complaining about random precursors and not wanting to buy them. It took a long time, but that’s now in the game. People complain about PvP rewards, you hardly see that at all anymore. People complained about the crafting UI and Anet altered that. People wanted first person view and Anet finally added it. But it all took time.

The wave of complaints your seeing, are on the expansion and some of the complaints were addressed right away. I see far less people complaining about how hard the TD meta is now. They even made changes in the last patch to the map in TD to try to make it less confusing for people.

Stuff changes in this game for the better quite often but people are only thinking about the last six months of complaints instead of the last two years.

Give it six months and I bet you many of the complaints you see to today will be addressed. Not all, but many.

Cerby.1069:

Kattenpootjes.4291:

It’s not going on sale yet cause core tyria gliding is coming soon and they want the new potential player pay full price obviously

Enough people actually care about this? I couldn’t care less, I fail to see why anyone who isn’t a PVE purist would. Why would being able to fly around zones I’ve already completed be anything more than a gimmick prize?

You’ve got to be joking. It’ll make a lot of stuff much more fun for me personally. Guild bounties. It’s a more fun way to search then having to run around. Finding places you’ve never seen before, lots of people are interested in that.

In, a lot of people who have completed zones still return to those zones to farm. Running around stuff is not as convenient as flying over it.

Harper.4173:

Vayne.8563:

Harper.4173:

Vayne.8563:

vesica tempestas.1563:

GW1 had raids. Being able to access all content without gating is casual friendly. Having a power cap is casual friendly. Having a gem store is casual friendly. 10k drinks is casual friendly if you must pull out that nonsense (GW1 had many many achievements like this).

Raids represents a fraction of the game content, and a fraction of the expansion released. Stop worrying about content that’s not targeted at yourself and enjoy the vast majority that is, and you will be happier. And incidentally, Casuals can enjoy raids too, a casual player may decide that he fancies joining in a guild raid one week. hardcore means having to commit to that same raid x nights a week for x hours or risk falling behind. – this is hardcore.

I don’t consider the elite content in Guild Wars 1 raids, and I don’t really think anyone else did either. Well, that’s not completely true. The Deep and Urgoz were probably raids. But nothing else was.

And I wouldn’t say other of those were casual in any way.

The Deep, Urgoz, FoW and UW could all easily be considered raids. In some ways they were even less casual friendly than today’s Raids.

Why?
They were designed to take a long time – even if you were really good – so aside for speed clears -you were looking at a 1.5 to 2 hour stay even with a good party.
They were also very very unforgiving – much more than the current Raids are. How so?

If your entire party wiped – you were done – all progress lost and you were thrown outside the instance – you had to do it all over again – that’s not casual friendly – they were very much aimed at the hardcore.

Imagine how much unforgiving and hardcore the raid would be if you had to redo everything if you wiped at one boss.
Imagine dying at Sabetha and having to clear the ENTIRE raid – VG and Gors included only to get to attempt her again.

The only real definition of PvE raids in any game I’ve played is content that requires a larger group of people than core content. Raids are named after raid groups, where you have more people in your party than you normally wood. For example, most parties in most games are 5 or 6 main and raids are 10 or 20 man.

Urgoz and The Deep are 12 man content. Everything else is just a long dungeon.

Except there are mechanics that differentiate UW and FoW from your regular dungeon.
Remember the kick on wipe? That didn’t happen in dungeons.
Mobs were also much more dense, powerful and overall the area was much more difficult to complete.

You might not want to call them Raids because it doesn’t help your position – but for all intents and purposes GW1 had raid-like content that was even more unfriendly to casuals than GW2’s Raids are.

I don’t call them raids because raid has an existing definition and I’m using it. That’s what I do. It’s the occupational hazzard of being an editor. The definition of the raid I’m using fits raids in WoW, Rift and every game I’ve played where I raid. The exception in PvP raids in games like DAoC.

You can, of course accuse me of trying to bolster my argument by ignoring definition, but raids isn’t about hard or anything like that. You can have a hard dungeon and a hard raid. Raid is named for the type of group you’re in when you do it. In WoW it was called a raid squad. That’s when you have a larger group than you have for other content.

You may not LIKE that definition but that IS the definition. I don’t use definitions to win arguments. I use them to communicate. Unless you can show me somewhere where raid just means a hard instance, I’ll continue to use the definition all along.

And, Anet never called them raids either, they called the elite instances or elite content.

sanctuary.1068:

Leohart.4610:

Well Heart of Thorns seemed rushed, so perhaps the next one ArenaNet won’t rush it and as a result, it’ll have better content?

That’s such a drastic approach to the problems of the first and only expansion so far.

… theres basically zero fun things to do anymore in gw2.

… aka zero fun.

That’s quite an opinion you have there.

Season 1 on repeat seems more boring than the large amount of content that comes with Heart of Thorns, but I don’t know if that’s a low-key hyperbole.

Your suggestion is smothered in personal bias (and dare I say, frustration), but that’s how many of these forum posts are aren’t they.

Yea ok. Its an oppinion. But whats more fun to you. Farming items to get special skins from living world events or farming masterys you only can use in hot zones? And yes im frusterated because what anet thinks is fun atm i dont think is fun at all.

I actually preferred both Season 1 and HoT to LS Season 2.