Guild Wars 2

Noviere.7309:

it’s like it was designed to make players mad.

I really do think that in some cases it was deliberately designed to frustrate players in this game. It seems to me that some who worked on this game did so begrudgingly. Whatever difficulty there is to be found in this game seems alot like ‘developer VS player’ to me.

Many people couldn’t complete the clocktower (I did) which seems too exclusive for a holiday event. The skins seemed alot like a gimmick trying to sell keys and again, the high cost and low RNG rate made it too exclusive for a holiday event.

The dungeon that you defeat the mad king was fun. The mad king’s labyrinth wasn’t bad. Mining candy corn got old old quick. “Mad king says” was one of the most anticlimactic events I’ve ever seen in a game like this.

I can picture the developers watching players attempt clock tower and doing mad king says while laughing and saying umadbro?

Anyway, I give it a solid non fanboy 5/10

Dreamwalker.3617:

Anet doesn’t like getting repetitive.

I guess thats why were fighting the same 6 mob types in all the Orr zones.

My opinion is we get 5 character slots and 8 classes available as it is.

Orr is not fine. Theres a difference between being entertained with a real challenge in a game and being annoyed by having fight through the same repetitive packs of timesoaking mobs over and over to meet an objective.

Theres a difference between avoiding or training large groups of mobs for the sake of survival than avoiding or training those same mobs for the sake of circumventing the hassle of content that isn’t particularly difficult.

I would be willing to bet that Anet has listened to people’s concerns in reguards to this and that the new zone coming wont make the same mistake.

Difficult =/= fun. (and tbh the fire elemental isn’t difficult, just a pita)

The fire elemental feels like being cheated for the amount of time/effort vs reward.

Thinking its fun or hard because you have to zerg it doesen’t make you cool.

I really do think the approach developers took in reguards to much of this game’s attempt at difficulty was to design the encounter begrudgingly.

I think this is part of a much bigger problem that people who make games are being hired as employees rather than their game’s or ideas for games being bought and or contracted.

When I transmute a malign glyphic maul with the stats from a knight’s pearl crusher the end product logically should be a knight’s glyphic maul. The same goes with everyother piece of equipment that the prefix should represent the stats on the actual item.

While it may not be critical, its really cheap looking an annoying that you haven’t taken the time to sort this out.

Please fix it and thanks in advance.

Lande.5782:

I find it hysterical people call it “elitism”, because it’s really the exact opposite of being elite. “80s only” is a perfect indicator that they are a horrible player, along with not understanding how scaling actually works.

Someone who gets it. I would consider the guy who says something like this a bad.

Vonleo.2987:

I mean I ask for level 80s only because I prefer faster runs and people with some exotics or full exotic sets which is a bonus.

This guy honestly thinks 80’s only with gear will increase his odds at faster runs in a pick up group. That the level 80 who spends 50% of the run downed is somehow of more value than the level 50 who never dies because he knows how to dodge.

I’ve seen a growing trend of LFG spam demanding level 80 for even low dungeons like AC or CM. Its really quite a shame as I thought the whole scaling content thing was probably the most innovative thing Anet brought to the table with this game. You know, that a level 80 can play with a level 40 and its fun.

The logic I see people using whenever questioned about their “lvl 80 only” spams is that it makes the run faster. I guess maybe, but they are trading a longer wait for a faster run at best. I say at best because you could get a level 80 who stays dead 80% of the dungeons and on the flip luck out with a level 40 who runs it flawlessly.

I’ve got one geared out 80 and working on my second. I’ve only ever failed to finish an instance run one time and it was because the elementalist teleported to a spot he shouldn’t have and bugged the last waypoint in CoE.

Please don’t support people running level 80 exclusive pick up groups.

It sickens me that people are celebrating a lack meaningful character progression in RPG games for the sake of “fairness” and going as far as calling it “the way of the future.”

In the meantime aka the way of the present, 99 out of 100 online RPG games fizzle out in the first year due to being unsustainable in their content and progression.

HEHO.2109:

What ppl mean by end game is vertical progression in gear… simple as that .
Someone who spent 500+hours will surely wants to 3-4 hit someone who spent 50h in the game. That’s how we learned MMORPGS are played , and we ware playing for the last years : get max lvl > grind best gear > pwn ppl with worst gear > massive ego boost > multiply e-kitten by amount of X . Altho ANet told us there will be no gear progession , ppl ware still hopeing there will be some kind of gear factor .Skins are great , but i want my gg awesome looking rifle to do a bit more dmg then some piece of wood that looks like rifle right? Altho ANet told us there will be no trinity , u see every second topic is ppl whine about getting the trinity back . Why ? COuse thats how we played MMORPG’s last 10 years .

This guy only wants to play video games that are managed like a socialist country and “fair” to everyone. Listen to him talk begrudgingly about what others had in other mmos and their “massive ego boost” when he is clearly seething with bitterness and its really his ego that is bruised and needs coddling through fairness.

When he says “thats how we’ve learned to play mmos over the last ten years” he really means we’ve learned to play them somewhat competitively in varying degrees and his fragile ego can’t stand competition in something as important as a video game.

Its this exact mentality that has lead to the dumbed down ruined state of mmos today.

I think you’re incorrect OP Aank,

I’ve had an eye for games or particularly RPGs that tried to have deep meaningful character progression before WoW. The only thing I learned from these games I’ve liked in the past is that deeper or meaningful character progression equates to a more satisfying game to play.

This brings me to your fallacy that is “you have learned to like that entertainment and need to relearn to like this entertainment instead.”

When I hear an argument like that anymore in a mmo forum, I can’t help but think to myself that what they really mean is more along the lines of “Learn to like the methadone because nobody is making decent heroin now a days.”

No, I don’t need to “unlearn what I like” and “relearn what I should like” especially when to me that represents the difference between deep and shallow. I like GW2 for what it is but it will never keep me from trying new games in search of a more meaningful and satisfying RPG experience.

There is some good medium armor. As asura engineer, the inquest set from CoE looked best on my character minus the helm which I transmuted to my eagle eye goggles I’ve been wearing since level 1.

Alot of the medium however does look like hobo rags and aside from that it seems alot people think as long as it resembles a g-string on their female character all is right in the world. My end conclusion is I see a better variety of attractive light and heavy armors than there is medium. Thats an opinion though and taste is taste.

I also love the scaling zones but then think they urinate on the idea by not making at least most of the zones have dynamic events that are equally challenging with karma rewards that scale to level.

Awesome.6120:

It’s almost like anet would rather you buy gems with cash.

Shocking.

QFT +1

ciannait.1945:

And you continue to deliberately misinterpret.

Hmmm…

ciannait.1945:

I work for a living. I have one job already – I don’t need another one.

I should have totally known that you really didn’t mean what you actually said there.

Looks like the reality is you regret that comment and now its not what you meant.

ciannait.1945:

There’s a difference. Please continue to be obtuse, though. I’m done with you.

I guess might makes you right.

The irony is that non cosmetic gear progression exists in this game. It would be one thing if all the gear progression was texture pimping from the get go but even the developers of this game can recognize the value of meaningful gear progression beyond textures.

ciannait.1945:

Really? I can spend maybe a couple of hours a night unwinding with a game I find fun, and you twist that into “but you said you don’t want another job”? That seems silly to me.

You already forget how you began your exchange with me? Let me remind you.

ciannait.1945:

I work for a living. I have one job already – I don’t need another one.

I didn’t twist anything you said because it was exactly what you said.

ciannait.1945:

I never played AO, so this means nothing to me.

Shadowlands and alien invasion expansions had their own seperate progression tables and they didn’t revise the entire game for the sake of the expansion.

ciannait.1945:

I didn’t say I didn’t want to spend time playing. I don’t want to feel like a certain time-sink is required in order for progression. Gated dailies are required for progress in WoW, for example, and is one reason I canceled my account.

I just think its ironic that you specifically said “I’m not looking for another job.”

ciannait.1945:

What would you like to see in the expansion, then? I’m curious.

Dare I say something along the lines of what AO did with shadowlands and alien invasion. Those expansions actually expanded the already existing game. WoW’s “expansions” are actually revisions imho.

ciannait.1945:

I have to prove my casual-ness to you? I get home from work. I log on between 6.30pm and 7pm. I play until 8.30 or 9pm. My highest-level is 28, I think. My crafting is all sub-50.

You just admitted to spending as much time playing this game as a part time job.

ciannait.1945:

I used to play WoW, vanilla and TBC. I did weekend-long grinds of MC and BWL (and Naxx before I realized that I don’t hate myself THAT much). I never, ever want to go back to that again.

I can log in to GW2, get my dailies done, do some crafting, do a story quest, log off, and feel like I’ve gotten something done. Your implication is that I am not a player worth courting. I disagree wholeheartedly.

You’re preaching to the choir about WoW. I don’t want an ever moving treadmill where my previous efforts are made irrelevant with expansions either. I want the character progression without a time limit aka time till the next expansion to contend with.

rdash.7160:

Like what?

Like achievement rewards that meant more than grats.

Pilusilm.5682:

ciannait.1945:

Vlaxitov.5693:

ciannait.1945:

I work for a living. I have one job already – I don’t need another one.

I also work for a living and thats beside the point. You’re really arguing that all other people should forever be doomed to be entertained under your personal limitations. That their entertainment needs to be “fair” for you.

You’re arguing the same thing. You want everyone in the game to have to “work” the same amount you do. If it’s not fair for me to say, it’s not fair for you either.

And this is where the topics title kicks in “too much equality” you would still have the choice not to put in any effort towards the game while other people who wish to do so have the chance. The choice was taken away from the people who would put effort in cause of all the supercasual gamers here who will not stay and play the game after 6 months like the people who care to play it. You might log in every now and then to check your stuff on the TP but that will just be like D3. Log in to check if you sold something, log out. Going down the same path by having nothing to keep the players interested for a longer term. Once you complete the map and your personal story then you have nothing to do but put hours towards a legendary weapon which doesn’t seem to matter the slightest.

Yes you get it and this is why I say games that follow this philosophy are unsustainable whether people like it or not.

rdash.7160:

Vlaxitov.5693:

rdash.7160:

No. Other people have other games – he’s merely expecting that a game designed from ground up to cater to those specific limitations and taste stays true to it.

…. and I said that game is unsustainable whether he thinks he wants it or not..

Which is false, as proven by GW1, capable of sustaining itself and attracting enough capital for sequel.

Even though I didn’t like it, I know for a fact that GW1 had more meaningful progression than this…

Nice try.

ciannait.1945:

Vlaxitov.5693:

People need to read up how many hours average mmo players play mmos before they proceed to argue from assumptions.

“Casual” mmo players are unicorns.

Good to know I have a horn in the middle of my head, then.

For all any of us know, you could be an 10 hour a day player.

This could be one of three mmos you play.

rdash.7160:

No. Other people have other games – he’s merely expecting that a game designed from ground up to cater to those specific limitations and taste stays true to it.

…. and I said that game is unsustainable whether he thinks he wants it or not..

People need to read up how many hours average mmo players play mmos before they proceed to argue from assumptions.

“Casual” mmo players are unicorns.

ciannait.1945:

I work for a living. I have one job already – I don’t need another one.

I also work for a living and thats beside the point. You’re really arguing that all other people should forever be doomed to be entertained under your personal limitations. That their entertainment needs to be “fair” for you.

Cezton.2415:

The lot of you are desperately looking to use the word grind wherever there is any work or “want” involved.

I really think the word “effort” is a more appropriate description than “work.”

I’m starting to understand what the OP means by too much equality. This game is a “casual” wet dream. I’ve seen threads of “casuals” celebrating their “equality.” In otherwords, the fact that they get rewarded the same no matter what they do or don’t do.

I would say that isn’t sustainable only we don’t rent this game by the month. Even at that, I’m finding my drive to play this game much less than my desire was to play even diablo 2 for this specific reason.

MMOs are not sustainable without deep meaningful character progression even if that offends people who don’t have the time, desire, or ability to progress their characters. Socialist one size fits all gaming philosophy has been leading the industry to ruin for a few years now.

I have about 10 gold because I play this game to be entertained.

I don’t see how people with 100 gold could have possibly enjoyed obtaining it.

That to me delves from entertainment into compulsive obsessive.

ciannait.1945:

That’s your prerogative, but bugs don’t get fixed by magic.

No, its my perspective and standards being the same as it would be with anyother form of entertainment because I’m not an addict unless its fun enough to be addicting. Bugs not being fixed by magic is beside the point. You’re perfectly demonstrating someone who argues that bugs in X game justifies Y game’s right to not be fun despite bugs or imbalances.

I’ve seen video game apologetics going on for a few years now…

“Give them more time or pay them now, they will entertain you later I promise.”

I didn’t have to give warhammer online more than 24 hours to know I didn’t like the game. Age of conan took about two weeks to figure it out. STO took about 2 weeks to come to terms with how bad it was. SWToR took me 24 hours to understand that in more ways than not they copied WoW circa early TBC, about a month to not like it.

Its like saying “no no, just listen to this William Hung album twenty more times and I swear it will grow on you.” Come on guys, the title of this thread is a redundant question. It not only varies via the person, it varies via the game when coming down to how long you need to evaluate whether its for you or not or how long it takes to say to yourself “what am I doing?”

Then you always have someone who will bring up shortcomings such as class imbalances and or bugs in vanilla WoW as though those shortcomings represent some kind of gold standard in mmos. Nevermind how deep or satisfying whatever the game was to play at the time despite it’s imperfections. In otherwords, do bugs and class imbalances in X game justify how shallow or fundamentally flawed in whoever’s opinion Y game is? I think not.

These are some of the reasons why I look at most video game or more specifically mmo apologetics as being more of an argument about why this or that methadone is good enough rather than how entertaining it is on it’s own merits, effectively dooming the genre to permanent one size fits all mediocracy.

Pandemoniac.4739:

Vlaxitov.5693:

Pandemoniac.4739:

Vlaxitov.5693:

John Smith.4610:

There has been no price manipulation, there is a transaction fee, I don’t feel these are the same thing.

Call it whatever you want, third party seller’s prices reflect what a real competitive market on gems and gold looks like with no price controls.

I disagree with that – the gold farmers are NOT getting their gold the same way players are… they’re using bots and exploits which makes their acquisition of gold a lot cheaper.

Bootleggers were also well known for commiting all kinds of different crimes other than making illegal drink for the same reason. I never said it would stop the 3rd party gold farming either. It would have put Anet more in control of it just like the end of prohibition put the govt. in control of booze and reduced alot of other crime.

I specifically disagreed with is that “third party seller’s prices reflect what a real competitive market on gems and gold looks like with no price controls".

The black market will always be less expensive if you only look at the price of the goods – the hidden cost is the risk of participating in it.

I can’t help but to feel that you’re sidestepping what has always been my point out of lack of humility.

That “hidden cost” you’re talking about isn’t soo hidden. Third party sellers would have to sell gold for much less if there was no risk and anyone could do it openly. Gold prices would likely drop to the point that removes alot third party incentive for farming it, incentive for botting, incentive for hacking accounts. It wouldn’t stop those things but it would put Anet further in control of monitoring and regulating what happens in their game than what they are now.

Pandemoniac.4739:

Vlaxitov.5693:

John Smith.4610:

There has been no price manipulation, there is a transaction fee, I don’t feel these are the same thing.

Call it whatever you want, third party seller’s prices reflect what a real competitive market on gems and gold looks like with no price controls.

I disagree with that – the gold farmers are NOT getting their gold the same way players are… they’re using bots and exploits which makes their acquisition of gold a lot cheaper.

Bootleggers were also well known for commiting all kinds of different crimes other than making illegal drink for the same reason. I never said it would stop the 3rd party gold farming either. It would have put Anet more in control of it just like the end of prohibition put the govt. in control of booze and reduced alot of other crime.

Average Anet price on gems is around 60 silver per 100, 10 USD gets you around 6 gold.

Farmer advertised price is 45 cents per gold. 10 USD gets you 9 gold.

Non legit player buys 3rd party gold for gems, price of gems goes up in game, farmer website gets to actually raise their price on gold and still undercut Anet enough to make buying it worth it to enough people. The legit player gets screwed with either being forced to earn more in game gold for the same things he wants or else just giving up and buying it, which I think is kind of the point. Great for everyone but the actual player.

John Smith.4610:

There has been no price manipulation, there is a transaction fee, I don’t feel these are the same thing.

Call it whatever you want, third party seller’s prices reflect what a real competitive market on gems and gold looks like with no price controls.

Its really too bad, you could have discouraged soo many more third party sellers from your game or they would have just went through your company if you were actually doing what you’re claiming and charging a fee rather than attempting to control prices.

Real tangible control of your game has been sacrificed for the illusion that you’re going to control this part of the money. This is like the one thing D3 devs understood.

People who are talking about how good SWToR was make me sick.

They are the reason my once beloved game genre is becoming animated crappy comic book stories disguised as video games.

Again, I love the way this system works. I don’t need game belittling stats on gear to consider obtaining it worthwhile. In the meantime the normalized stats discourages bads from crying out for dungeon nerfs for the sake of their ego. What more could you ask for?

Snow White.9680:

Vlaxitov.5693:

I’m almost done with one of three dungeon sets I want for different spec set ups.

I’m nowhere near thinking about even starting the legendary grind yet.

I want to grind out some gold to buy gems for account upgrades.

I’d like to level up and gear some alts when all that is done.

If those aren’t carrots, I don’t know what is.

The point the OP was making is that these carrots are optional. GW2 doesn’t have a huge gear gap between their tiers like so many other games so we aren’t forced to constantly upgrade to stay afloat. We can drop and pick it up as we feel, and that’s a really great thing. Games shouldn’t be like jobs.

These carrots are optional in any mmo. I gurantee I won’t complete my list before a GW2 expansion is out, thats how long of a task it really is.

You guys might as well say what you really mean.

badmmocarebear

I’m glad there isn’t gear that seperates the shirts from the skins in this game.

Well there is albeit that bar is low. A mmo player who really fails at hand eye coordination won’t be wearing a CoE exotic set anytime soon. So yeah, bads can celebrate that “elitists” will only look more accomplished than them.

I’m almost done with one of three dungeon sets I want for different spec set ups.

I’m nowhere near thinking about even starting the legendary grind yet.

I want to grind out some gold to buy gems for account upgrades.

I’d like to level up and gear some alts when all that is done.

If those aren’t carrots, I don’t know what is.

There are stronger classes.

There are classes that are harder or easier to play.

Every class has a place in the eternal alchemy.

People claiming that the classes are equal also coincidentally mention how good they are at the game.

This mmo forum is either heavily moderated or really lacks the sheer numbers of complaints you could see in most other mmos.

Sometimes I think I can judge the overall health of a game by its complaints. That said, the more complaints on the forums means that the game is still relevant.

Licht.5168:

How would an in-game marriage be detailed and/or sexual? At most it would allow RPers the ability to have some in-game acknowledgement that they are with someone else. And the idea of marriage in a game is romantic for some..

You said nothing here that even remotely changes or challenges what I’ve already said. What you are saying is that people need to force others to acknowledge their fantasy and that for some reason is romantic.

Licht.5168:

Technically, you are taking the role of the hero of the story, in a game, so you are still playing a roleplaying game.

Technically, MMORPG makers are starting to assume control of soo much detail in the story of their games that its effectively removing any “RPG” there is to be had from them. You aren’t roleplaying anymore at that point, you’re playing through a game that makes no room for your own story. I don’t know why this is soo hard to understand.

gricks.1897:

Thats a bit narrow minded. its a MMO"RPG".

Whats narrow minded is thinking you’re going to add detailed sexual themes to a game that caters to people who have different opinions on these themes whether you like it or not, and that it will make everybody happy or was worth the time and effort.

Are you imagination challenged? Can you not make up your own stories in your mind with video games? I think MMO"RPG" makers are already currently destroying the “RPG” by heavily scripting our games with stories much worse or cheesier than we could make up for ourselves.

RPG used to mean I got to make up my own story. It seems now a days its starting to take bioware’s definition as a cheesy animated comic book disguised as a video game.

lordstrego.1874:

It was only M/F which is silly but at the time i guess was what people expected.These days it should be open to any one period.

All public bathrooms should be co-ed too but for the love of the eternal alchemy please leave these real life social issues out of my FANTASY game. Go play the sims if you really need that in your game. The sims does it better than any mmo ever would anyway.

Leave anything to do with sex out of my video game about killing baddies.

Leave that stuff in the sims.

issacTheMarker.8530:

My biggest complaints have to be
1.) Exp modes – lack of the holy trinity is felt here

Felt by groups who fail at hand eye coordination.

Welcome to video games.

Cayden.4587:

First off I am leaving Guild Wars 2 and going back to Planetside 2 and probably won’t bother coming back to comment on this.

Not only do you let us know that you’re a mmo addict by naming what game you’re “going back to” as if its an ex wife, you do come back here to comment.

Cayden.4587:

The first thing that seemed like a great idea and turned out to not work for me was the step away from tank/healer/dps or the “unholy trinity” as ANET liked to call it. Unfortunately it has become painfully clear to players that it is actually the “holy trinity” and allows for organized and streamlined game play that can focus on teamwork and environment without the need for a lot of groups to end up resorting to face rolling through dungeons by just having a constant stream of people dying and running back.

This widely depends on the group and if you’ve ever been in a good group which it sounds like you haven’t, that constant stream of people running back is more like a trickle.

Cayden.4587:

The second thing that seemed like a great new feature and turned out to be disastrous is the downed state. While the idea of this was interesting and effectively made everyone a “healer” it ended up not working that way in game. The biggest effect of this was in WvW where the ability for people to rebound because someone they had hit was killed caused fights to just become ridiculous. In PvE this was also not really a great feature as it just added another phase of dying. It didn’t really make the game easier and also caused people to flock to the downed person to heal them which would often result in an aoe wiping the party.

Most of this is just a rehash of your first complaint really. Since you can’t find people who can bring people up and dodge aoe at the same time, the downed state is “just another phase of dying” to you. Well if you play with people who CAN bring other people up and still time their double taps its not.

Cayden.4587:

The third thing I thought was going to be good but turned out to be bad was no Raids and Dungeon gear being cosmetic only. For people who don’t know it takes about 2 days to farm enough gold to buy a full set of exotics in any stat configuration. It takes about the same time running dungeons to get 1 piece of exotic gear from a dungeon in the same stat configuration. This made two problems, 1 there was no real motivation to run dungeons and 2 it only took 2 days to go from fresh 80 to fully geared 80(minus legendary but come on w/e). The lack of raids added with this lack of gear progression made it so that people had literally zero motivation to run PvE other than to farm different currencies.

I would like you to explain to us all how it takes 2 days to farm enough gold for 30 ectos along with all the other mats it takes to make a full set. (actually 60 ectos if you included jewellery) Then once I’m convinced you can do it in two days, I wan’t you to convince me that you ever would.

In addition to that, I don’t understand the necissity for gear rewards that are strong enough to belittle content other than instances as being the inspiration you need to do things like running dungeons in an online game. Why would you request raids if you struggle to get through dungeons as you described to being with? The mind boggles.

While I do have grievances with the game myself, this concludes the time I have for your “exit review” as I feel that you demonstrated ignorance and or dishonesty in your first three points of this post.

Revenant.2691:

I really don’t think the prohibition analogue works here. For that to work, the US Government would have to be legally selling cocaine to people and the drug dealers would just be undercutting them.

Because theres underground tobacco growers and moonshiners everywhere undercutting gas stations and liquor stores.

I think if tobacco was illegal today it would be cheaper than it currently is.

What HawkMeister said,

The OP is talking about prohibition which only raises incentive and promotes even worse activities such as account hacking.

Anyone remember back in the day of vanilla WoW? Those were the days of actual farmers playing the game instead of a bot. I could live with that and think its something game makers need to aim for.