Forum feedback is a guy going “this dungeon is too hard! This is why.”
The complaints I’ve seen about dungeons have mostly been about them being broken, buggy, unfun, unchallenging, drawn out, boring. Seriously man, “too hard” seems to be at the bottom of the complaint list and I don’t know who you think you’re fooling.
The steampunk elements are one of the few redeeming qualities of this game.
Trading Post actually requires a lot of game market insight to pull off, average player whines about it because they can’t do it, don’t want to spend time learning about it, and is bitter that other people are doing it.
The irony in that is I’ve come to recognize in several past games that a great deal of mmo market players often play the rest of the game at a below average level.
Pointless and opinionated remark. I’ve seen many great market players also being very great in PVE and PVP. There, i think we just canceled each other out.
If it was a jab at me it’s useless cuz I don’t even play TP.
Oh I have seen great players that play the market too, but I have seen more that it was the other case in my personal experience. I’ve seen it go as far as guilds carrying bads to raid drops via set prices advertised on their websites.
No that wasn’t a direct jab about you. It was a jab at your statement which was also a pointless and opinionated remark. I don’t consider a guy who camps a market in a mmo, sometimes with an auctioneer type mod, to be some victim of “bitter average players.”
The complaints aren’t saying you were wrong if you resorted to market playing in a mmo to get what you want with a reasonable amount of time investment rather than you shouldn’t have had to in the first place as long as you can competently play the game.
What’s considered reasonable amount of time investment, what’s competently play the game? Those are different from people to people. Slaying weak elementals (aka farming open world monsters) to me is not very competent way of playing the game.
No one has to play the TP…it’s just TP players get to the finishing line earlier than the others, and non TP players get jealous. You make it sound like farmers should be just as well off as TPe’rs…that’s not realistic. Again, I don’t play TP, there’s enough content in the game for me to stick around while hunting down legendaries, I don’t care if TP players, or cash players get their legendaries before me by 5 months, I go at my own pace. I just wish other players could see it that way.
Say you need 100 pieces to make something in a game, how many hours per piece collected would be considered reasonable on average? 10 hours? 20 hours? 40 hours? Say its 4 hours per piece, 100 shifts of 4 hours is reasonable? 50 days of 8 hour shifts?
I never said the method in which you obtain these things had to be any specific thing but if I had to give an answer, yes slaying weak elementals is a more competent level of actual gameplay than camping the TP.
Farmers should be better off than “TP’ers” because they are actually producing the value found in the game. Your silly statement that “TP’ers” should somehow realistically be better off is like saying retailers make more money than manufacturers. “TP’ers” are nothing more than speculation buyers. They don’t contribute rather than just drag down their fellow players in game quality of life by causing artificial inflation with their speculation buying.
So you’re saying that people asking for systems in an online game that discourages artificial inflation due to speculation buying is really just an act of jealousy. Thats like saying people are only jealous of the money Walmart makes and their business practices have nothing to do with it. Your position is indefensible.
Trading Post actually requires a lot of game market insight to pull off, average player whines about it because they can’t do it, don’t want to spend time learning about it, and is bitter that other people are doing it.
The irony in that is I’ve come to recognize in several past games that a great deal of mmo market players often play the rest of the game at a below average level.
Pointless and opinionated remark. I’ve seen many great market players also being very great in PVE and PVP. There, i think we just canceled each other out.
If it was a jab at me it’s useless cuz I don’t even play TP.
Oh I have seen great players that play the market too, but I have seen more that it was the other case in my personal experience. I’ve seen it go as far as guilds carrying bads to raid drops via set prices advertised on their websites.
No that wasn’t a direct jab about you. It was a jab at your statement which was also a pointless and opinionated remark. I don’t consider a guy who camps a market in a mmo, sometimes with an auctioneer type mod, to be some victim of “bitter average players.”
The complaints aren’t saying you were wrong if you resorted to market playing in a mmo to get what you want with a reasonable amount of time investment rather than you shouldn’t have had to in the first place as long as you can competently play the game.
Trading Post actually requires a lot of game market insight to pull off, average player whines about it because they can’t do it, don’t want to spend time learning about it, and is bitter that other people are doing it.
The irony in that is I’ve come to recognize in several past games that a great deal of mmo market players often play the rest of the game at a below average level.
They don’t need to have permission.
The weapons are not exact copies of the ones in GW2.
Isn’t that what Vanilla Ice said about the bassline in Ice Ice Baby? It’s not an exact copy of Bowie/Queen’s Under Pressure?
XD
Yeah Vanilla Ice won that lawsuit.
With over 1,000 hours played
At least 6 hours a day 7 days a week
Cartoon pornography is extremely creepy by any measurable standard.
knock-offs don’t have to be the exact same to be illegal.
You need an education on what a “knock-off” is.
A knock-off claims to be the same as in made by the same people.
A good example would be a Louis Vuitton purse. The knock off isn’t exactly the same, but it still claims to be a LV purse.
This doesen’t claim to be a GW2 sword hence its not a knock-off and if Vanilla Ice can get away with that sample in ice ice baby, then this is a kosher pickle.
1000 hours in 4 months is 8.333 hours a day, 7 days a week.
1200 hours in 4 months is of course 10 hours a day, 7 days a week.
1600 hours in 4 months is 13.333 hours a day, 7 days a week.
It wasn’t an “excellent article,” it was a pile of dung.
“People are demanding horizontal progression.”
Just how many people are demanding it and are some of these the same people who cry about “nothing to do” in a mmo forum before they bounce to the next newest mmo or even better yet, back to WoW and vertical progression because its actually sustainable.
Theres only one game I can think of that does well with horizontal progression.
Wait for it,.. wait for it,… The Sims.
Why don’t you people just go play The Sims rather than crusading on the internets for mmos having less purpose to play than The Sims. Its like begging to not have a reason to get up in the morning or aspiring to play in a land of video game hobos.
The game isn’t dead, it’s just that the MMO playerbase are fickle, whiny, and stubborn.
Yeah thats right, its the players fault they aren’t playing as much. Thats such a ridiculas statement I don’t even know where to begin.
This is the same garbage that causes post-nerf-patch fluctuations of 1 million users in wow.
I’m not going to verify the wow numbers you rattled off because here were talking about a sampling of 4215 players in this xfire thing. Besides that, are we really talking about “fluctuatinig players” in a game that isn’t sub based?
even the noted “post-ascended-gear cliff” on this graph is only a month old.
Again were talking about stats on 4215 players who were playing around 6 hours a day on average a month ago dipping down to a 2 hour a day average by a week ago, then coming back up to a 4 hour a day average during this event that I’m pretty sure all registered players get email adverts to come check out new content for their free to play game as well.
So the way I see that chart is 3/4 of these xfire users basically stopped playing by a week ago and only 1/4 of that 3/4 xfire users can be even be bothered to come check out the advertised event content.
If the old MMO pattern holds true, these people are going to come right back to the game when they realize it’s the best they’ll get to their “perfect fit”, despite the fact that they don’t agree with some of ANet’s actions.
What you mean is if the old WoW pattern holds true. People seem to think mmos have always been or even currently are mainsream. WoW to mmos is what Green Day is to punk rock, a mega comercial sell out. The difference is Green Day being a successful mega commercial candypunk sell out act didn’t “change the industry” into money grubbing over music loving anymore than it already was. I can’t say the same for WoW and mmos which is why pretty much every mmo since WoW has gone over like a led zeppelin.
Developers go into mmos thinking that WoW has broken the chains of niche from the genre. They plan and design their one size fits all games with unrealistic expectations that theyre going to run a mega cafeteria when in reality theyre only opening up a mom & pop shop.
Your “people will come crawling back” statement is too funny. You have to assume that everyone who plays is hopelessly addicted to mmos thus must have one they are currently playing at all times. That might still be true for you, but I know alot of people who have sweat their mmo addictions out in the sheets sheets over these past few years of miserable game offerings. I really feel like the mega commercialism WoW brought to the table drove a huge percentage if not the majority of original fans, who liked these games for what they were, away from the genre entirely.
In the mean time, at least where I am, and to the contrary of those who think this game is “dying”, I have to worry about the CPU temps as the sheer number of people playing around me tax my system that much.
Ted – “Hey dan, whats the CPU temp atm?”
Dan – “Its looking pretty high Ted.”
Ted – “See I told you the game was healthy, never better!”
Anyway, if you’re enjoying yourself thats all that matters. I’d never think to debate the popularity of music I like as though thinking its more popular makes it more enjoyable to listen to. The same applies to my video games.
Stats based on around 4200 players…
Big deal OP…
it is still a prestigious award. and they won it. i don’t see why people are trying to take that away from anet.
could they have won it if gw2 came out last year? i don’t think so myself. but they won this year. good for gw2, good for anet. there’s no point try to throw a wet blanket over everything.
Oh yes, as Ralphy’s dad would put it, “its a major award.”
Gamespot MMORPG of the year goes to SWTOR.
http://e3.gamespot.com/best-of-e3-2010/genre-awards/index.html?page=12
We all know SWTOR was the best game ever.
I also remember AoC getting several “game of the year” awards as well, even before it released… That game was a sparkling jewel too.
Game of the year awards are almost as “prestigous” as today’s nobel prize..
Did WoW tank
Strawmen in fields only scare crows.
Did WoW tank
Strawmen in fields only scare crows.
Oh the irony…
Like it or not, WoW is fundamentally a different game.
You should probably not accuse someone of building a strawman right after you build one of your own.
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The proof that it is a vocal minority can be seen by testing what you read on the forums. Servers are populated, I’ve seen virtually no complaints about gear in LA chat, and it’s still easy to find a group. Sorry guys, you are indeed a vocal minority.
Even if I believed you, (which I don’t) by that standard every single game player with a complaint since pong has been “indeed a vocal minority.” Your very own claim that LA chat is business as usual which you could never substantiate, is a “vocal minority claim” as you are voicing that claim in this forum and using your own personal heresay local sampling via the times you play. You really do make plain why the term “vocal minority” is as useless as the opinion’s of the person using that term.
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The term “vocal minority” is uesless. A store could sell a 60 dollar gadget of some sort and I know people who would just throw it away rather put up with the hassle of taking it back. Now lets make that something that does technically work and the person just subjectively doesen’t care for it like a video game. You thnk my friend who couldn’t be bothered to take something back that didn’t work for a 60 dollar return can be bothered to voice a complaint on a video game forum?
I think that people who make and sell video games know a majority HAS been vocal with their wallets. Two years of steady decline in video game sales with much sharper declines in PC than console and in before someone derps out “economy,” video game sales were higher during worse economic times than now.
So yeah, the real tangible numbers outside of pure speculation on forums suggests that people are liking what game makers are doing less and less. To add my very own brand of useless forum speculation, I think alot of people stopped liking it a long time ago and it actually shows that more people are starting to wise up hence are no longer “supporting game developers” who haven’t made a game they actually like for a dog’s age.
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Do stop putting words in my mouth. about what I’m saying, or what I must mean.
I’ll leave you with one question though. And it’s not just to you but to everyone else.
“If ArenaNet capitulated completely with your demands this be taken out, would you stay? And what about the people who aren’t you, who might be harmed by actions taken to remove this content?”
You see alot of this in online forums. You just accused me of putting words in your mouth (which I clearly didn’t) then went on to assume that I “demand it be taken out.” Whatever gave you the impression that I’m demanding it be taken out? I think it maybe could have been done differently but I never said I think it should be taken out. Thats essentially my question, to what extent are you willing to make all the content in a game “accessible to everyone” at the cost of what couldn’t be anything other than lowering the bar on dare I say skill or effort to access the content?
I wasn’t insisting YOU were the one demanding it be taken out, and that’s what I meant by “putting words in my mouth”. I was after “you” in a plural general sense not a specific individual sense with the question. I was posing it to you, and to everyone saying this gear is a bad idea.
. . . Gods above I hate the English language pronouns sometimes . . .
I’m not interested in the “thats not what I meant even though thats what I typed” game but lets play anyway. When you say " was posing it to you, and to everyone saying this gear is a bad idea," what does that mean? Well to any rational person it means that you’re saying that I’ve said its a bad idea. I haven’t said that at all. All I’ve said is that it maybe could have been done differently while already making plain that I didn’t think it was a bad idea in my last response to you. Are you even reading what I’m typing?
You have yet to answer my question. To what extent should a game maker make their content “accessible to everyone” at the cost of what couldn’t be anything other than lowering the bar on dare I say skill and or effort to access the content?
Do stop putting words in my mouth. about what I’m saying, or what I must mean.
I’ll leave you with one question though. And it’s not just to you but to everyone else.
“If ArenaNet capitulated completely with your demands this be taken out, would you stay? And what about the people who aren’t you, who might be harmed by actions taken to remove this content?”
You see alot of this in online forums. You just accused me of putting words in your mouth (which I clearly didn’t) then went on to assume that I “demand it be taken out.” Whatever gave you the impression that I’m demanding it be taken out? I think it maybe could have been done differently but I never said I think it should be taken out. Thats essentially my question, to what extent are you willing to make all the content in a game “accessible to everyone” at the cost of what couldn’t be anything other than lowering the bar on dare I say skill or effort to access the content?
Noooo, what they said was Candyland can be as fun as Risk. Not necessarily to you. and not in the same times. I mean, unless it was like a couple buddies of mine who decided it would be hilarious to drag it out with a bottle of rum and shotglasses.
. . . come to think of it, that did make that pretty fun. More fun than the last time I played Risk.
So yeah, it kind of is how you approach a game which is going to determine if you have fun. “Let’s get piss drunk and play Candyland” versus “oh God not Risk again . . . just put it away, we know who’s winning that . . . again”. One of those times I will very likely not have fun while the other it’s more likely I’ll have fun. At least until I sober up, then I will wonder what possessed me to do that.
So in otherwords, getting really drunk is a good substitute for literally approaching the game with a 4 year old’s mentality.
And sure, there are outside problems which can contribute to a game not being fun. Like your dog running off with the dice. Your buddy knocking the board and jumbling up how many armies were on the board and where they were during a tense Risk standoff. A really really pissed off card gamer flipping the table.
Is Candyland or Chutes and Ladders the same level of play as Monopoly or Risk? Heck no. Does that mean they can’t be fun? . . . if you said yes, please tell me why.
Aside from my statement clearly being metaphoric, you’re failing to make any point here. Seems like your purpose is more to entertain than honestly discuss.
Also, there are a couple games that don’t keep a high score and are just “did you finish?” The Dragon Quest series, the Final Fantasy series, UFO: Enemy Unknown, Pokemon . . . I’ll name one more for good measure. Portal. For extra credit, Ultima 4. (It’s freeware now, I recommend it so long as you can put up with ancient graphics) Video games don’t have to keep score anymore. Heck even Mega Man stopped that after the first game.
So basically single player games, pass or fail games, or deathmatch games.
Rewarding does not mean challenging, but the reverse doesn’t hold true. A challenging game can be rewarding in the sense of “I finally beat Ninja Gaiden” or “Thank God I don’t have to play any more Battletoads.” But a challenging game doesn’t necessarily mean it’s fun either. (See: Deadly Towers. Yes. I owned it once, because it was 50 cents at a used store. I still feel cheated.)
Well its a good thing were talking about ninja gaiden because I was starting to think we were talking about online mmos. You’re still at little to no bearing on anything I’ve said. Didn’t the old sidescrolling ninja gaiden have a score btw? The one shining thing I’ll agree with you on here is that challenge doesen’t always result in entertainment. I think you missed my point that nobody is making that argument that rewards = challenge to begin with and the original guy I was responding to was using that argument to say that EVERYTHING should be accessible to EVERYONE which basically means no challenge.
I play games if they’re fun or until I get bored with them, then I move on to the next thing. Right now, it’s Guild Wars 2 and some other stupid game about playing with blocks. Craftmine or something. Next it’ll be something different, and I’ll eventually get bored with that and move on too.
You must be the only person in the world who plays games untill you’re bored of them and as sarcastic as I’m being that is my point exactly. You’re driving my point home as well by already conceding to the fact that you will be moving on. Thats like saying “yeah, I can see myself getting bored with this game.” So can I, so can I.
Vertical or horizontal progression is beside the point as I wouldn’t mind horizontal one bit as long as it was entertaining enough. Itemization, customization, challenging and or complex means to either. These are the things people want (or at least did want) in a game like this. Theres only so far you can go with that if your purpose is to not offend soccer moms or people with two left hands.
So the OP matenzo wants this to be a typical gear treadmill mmo even though it was advertised as anything but that and he bought it anyway.
Ok.. thats fine..
…and theres the fallacy that Candyland or Chutes & Ladders can be just as fun as Monopoly or Risk.
easy =/= fun
Actually what you’ve said is a fallacy. All games are equally as fun as the next, it’s the expectations and how you approach the games that can make them not fun. An easy game can be just as fun as a hard game.
Personal rewards =/= difficulty of play.
So you’re basically saying that all games are created equal and as long as I approach Candyland with the mentality of a 4 year old that it can be just as fun as Risk while calling what I said fallacious? Oh the irony..
No, its not how you approach a game that makes it fun. That might help contribute to it being fun but in the end its either fun or not for other reasons than “my approach.”
Then you come through with a total strawman that personal rewards =/= difficulty of play. That notion is also a fallacy because video games have been keeping score pretty much ever since video games have existed. Almost all games keep score. High score in pacman or tetris is nothing more than a personal reward and it definately relates directly to the difficulty of play. I don’t know who you think you’re fooling.
Its only been the more recent mmos that have brough about a line of thinking that this genre of game is really all about messaging the players ego by providing a game environment that makes believe that even the guy who doesen’t have the hand eye coordination to play mary had a little lamb on a fisher price toy piano nor the attention span of a gnat is still winning like charlie sheen at video games.
Game makers (particularly mmos developers) still being in the business of making money are doing that I think begrudgingly out of necessity ever since the genre became mega commercialized. People like you who come to their forums and try to say things like “rewards =/= challenge therefore challenge =/= fun” are their new target audience. Sad times for actual gamers.
IRL I would actualy say work hard to get rewarded. But the problem is I play this game for fun. I have already payed 60$ to have fun and I would prefer not having to grind to have fun when it would be possible to create an option that wouldn’t force me to grind before having fun.
So you would have a problem in real life about an option that would allow you to be rewarded without working hard?
I am curious why you think an online game should have easy access to fun while real life shouldn’t.
Because it’s an online game.
…and theres the fallacy that Candyland or Chutes & Ladders can be just as fun as Monopoly or Risk.
easy =/= fun
On a slightly more serious note, I do wonder if these arguments – if not necessarily dictating a condition of total adherence – do see an online/offline correlation.
If you’re someone who in real life believes that only those who work hard should be rewarded, is that a view you will transpose onto a game and vice versa?
If you believe that everyone deserves an equal chance and should be supported in order to reach their potential, do you apply that to both online and offline activities?
I’d be curious to hear from people who are strongly progressive or conservative in real life but reverse their position in an online game.
I would say dishonesty is the key element found in human nature coming into play here. The OP switches from “rewarded” while he mocks hard work to “supported” while trying to say something vague and apologetic about what he considers the opposing view to be. Theres no question in my mind which side of the fence the OP sits on IRL. This is why he deliberately misconstrues his own position in an attempt to sell it to others.
The word doesen’t magically change from “rewarded” to “supported,” its still a reward were talking about as everyone has an equal opportunity to do what they want in this game along with several other online games that everyone plays by the same rules. The “progressive” position believes in equal rewards for less efforts or dare I say ability. While it sounds great on paper, the whole notion is a fallacy and cannot happen even in a video game.
That being said, game devs are persistantly trying to find new ways to reward those who put in less effort or have less ability in most online games. The result has been less satisfying games across the board for everyone to play and a much expected slump in the entire industry.
This game is how old and were already on our second limited time offer event, this one being 2-3 days long? Doesen’t this kind of fly in the face of your stance on “gated content?” I’ve played other games with extensive raiding that felt less gated than being given a schedual like I’m an employee and if I snooze I lose.
The selling point of this game was thinking that I could pick it up and put it down when I wanted as was the deal with D2. Now home from a busy travel work weekend and I could maybe log in and hurry to get done whatever it is with urgency, but that doesen’t sound like fun. Think I’ll play something else instead. This kind of thing is destroying my interest in your game with extreme prejudice.
Please sort your kitten out Anet.
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I agree. I lose my mouse cursor constantly when there are a lot of players/effects on the screen!
Trion devs made the same mistake with Rift.
If you’re going to add all those spell effects which I welcome, you need to ramp up the cursor’s visibility.
OP is vocal minority.
Stick to what you said for years in blog posts, AMAs, manifesto videos, interviews, at the gamescoms.
Gear grind is lazy bad game design and it ruins fun.
Gear is never the problem. Infact most MMO players love gear. Its how you get it is what makes or breaks the game. If you have to get new gear but you need to get it in a dungeon thats really fun, then its a win situation. If you have to get new gear killing a million monsters in a repetitive way then its a lose situation..
I would say adding steps of vertical progression this early in the game is a little discerning. You’re trying to sell that the vertical progression is good for a game and I’m skeptical of that.
I raided all the way to nax 40 as MT as well as getting field marshal in PvP (would have had to quit my job for grand marshal) only to have my efforts negated by revisions made to that game come the first expansion. Then they did it to me again with the second expansion. I never even went back to try the third expansion because it all felt like a waste of my gaming time by then.
I’m old so you might not remember this but Funcom almost got it right with Anarchy Online during their shadowlands expansion that you gained shadow levels and your gearset was actually expanded rather than revised. It was still vertical progression as your character did get better, but it didn’t nullify most of the gear you had already aquired.
Im pretty oldschool myself. I did play anarchy online:). Im just not concerned at all, I mean its just getting a few pieces of gear. I think they already said that its not going to be like that every 3 months or whatever it may be so I don’t see this as a problem. I’m sure they knew that this would cause an uproar but I believe Anet is smart. Maybe the new dungeon is really that good..
Right, then you know we would still do things in AO like hit up that lower level temple for the chips to put in your NCU belt. You would still do that biodome raid for the faction class armor because despite expanions, that armor was still BIS. I am concerned because I’ve yet to see a game handle their gear progression as well as AO which is sad.
OP is vocal minority.
Stick to what you said for years in blog posts, AMAs, manifesto videos, interviews, at the gamescoms.
Gear grind is lazy bad game design and it ruins fun.
Gear is never the problem. Infact most MMO players love gear. Its how you get it is what makes or breaks the game. If you have to get new gear but you need to get it in a dungeon thats really fun, then its a win situation. If you have to get new gear killing a million monsters in a repetitive way then its a lose situation..
I would say adding steps of vertical progression this early in the game is a little discerning. You’re trying to sell that the vertical progression is good for a game and I’m skeptical of that.
I raided all the way to nax 40 as MT as well as getting field marshal in PvP (would have had to quit my job for grand marshal) only to have my efforts negated by revisions made to that game come the first expansion. Then they did it to me again with the second expansion. I never even went back to try the third expansion because it all felt like a waste of my gaming time by then.
I’m old school so you might not remember this but Funcom almost got it right with Anarchy Online during their shadowlands expansion that you gained shadow levels and your gearset was actually expanded rather than revised. It was still vertical progression as your character did get better, but it didn’t nullify most of the gear you had already aquired.
Yes add the kind of fishing where I go underwater and defeat the fish in combat.
Fishing as in standing there and clicking 1 button every 10-20 seconds? I’ll pass.
Its not elitist to want to play with other adventurers that possess as many hardcores as you, its normal.
Considering the difficulty of the content we’ve seen so far, yes you are being unecissarily exclusive by doing that.
Oh you dont like that there is a way to measure ones ability and capacity to perform? Thats normal too and there is a solution.
Because we’ve never seen bads with good gear in any mmo…
Make your own Exotic friendly group, let the hardcores enjoy the game their way. More often then not that means not carrying people.
Refer to my last reply. This same thing applies to “80’s only” people. Its just as possible that someone looking for “80’s only” or “link your gear” is a bad looking to be carried. If you think your gear could ever actually carry someone in this game then you are a bad I’d never want to play with even if I did measure up to your requirements.
The irony is that anyone claiming there is a “vocal minority” in a forum like this IS part of a that vocal minority pretending to represent the “silent majority.”
So you’re disagreeing with content being made for people to churn to, and you want things to be achieved in years again? What I view as fun, you don’t find fun, and what you find fun, I don’t view as fun. People have different tastes and the industry as a whole is shifting towards a more casual player base as you yourself have noted.
Big raids in this game would be a ridiculas zergfest, not fun nor challenging. I do think you could probably get away with a 10 man, but anymore than that would be lulz just like the dragon fights are. I also give Anet alot of credit for making this game as well as they did considering their stance against “gated content.”
Your kind of contridicting yourself a bit. You give credit to AreaNet for making this game as well as they did and yet say that adding raids wouldn’t be challenging or fun.
No, I said big raids wouldn’t be fun that anything over a 10 man would end up the same kind of zergfest we see with dragon fights. Thats what I said exactly that anyone could read to confirm. I’m not contradicting myself rather than you’re either misunderstanding or misconstruing what I’ve said.
Whose to say they would make raids that way? They have their own flavour on adding content and I’m sure they would work for a long time on an idea like this (Assuming it was to be added) to ensure it was rewarding, yet not an obligation along with being not just something to do, something you WANT to do.
I never said they should even make raids at all. I only said that they do make raids, they probably shouldn’t try to make raids bigger than a ten man due to the nature of this game’s mechanics. You’re putting words in my mouth, then trying to argue with me about things I agree with you on.
So you’re disagreeing with content being made for people to churn to, and you want things to be achieved in years again? What I view as fun, you don’t find fun, and what you find fun, I don’t view as fun. People have different tastes and the industry as a whole is shifting towards a more casual player base as you yourself have noted.
“Casual” being codeword for dumbed down socialist gaming where everyone gets their fair share and their participation trophy. You’re right, it has shifted to that and its clearly not sustainable with the proof of being that almost all newer mmos have crashed & burned by any measurable standard over the last few years.
You say different strokes for different folks but it seems to me that most game makers have been trying to herd us into one size fits all gaming for a long time now. They think that people with a higher levels of hand eye coordination, or an eye for detail, or a brain for strategy will somehow find a way to enjoy the same game that someone who would be just as happy with a chatroom that plays cartoons enjoys. Its never going to happen.
In game/music comparison terms, I want to listen to Squarepusher but most game makers dare not put anything less shallow than Katy Perry on the shelves anymore.
Big raids in this game would be a ridiculas zergfest, not fun nor challenging. I do think you could probably get away with a 10 man, but anymore than that would be lulz just like the dragon fights are. I also give Anet alot of credit for making this game as well as they did considering their stance against “gated content.”
I don’t want my Asura warrior’s greatsword or hammer to look like it outweighs my character. The greatsword in particular is already bordering on ridiculas.
Start thinking creatively……this is the 21st century, not the 90’s.
This “creative thinking” you’re talking about has really just ended up being codeword for dumbed down. You seem to draw the assertion that you’re an oldschool mmo player and if thats so, then you should know that the makers of these games have been steadily simplifying them in attempt to sell more of their product.
So a big hoorah for the 21st century and mmo makers who think they can appeal to the original fanbase and soccer moms at the same time. A big hoorah for one size fits all gaming. Lets all celebrate this era of mediocracy in video games and tell anyone who doesen’t like it that they need to “start thinking creatively.”
When it comes to the raiding I don’t see this game supporting anything higher than a ten man dungeon and it would still be fun. Anything bigger than a ten man and the mechanics of this game would make such a raid either really frustrating or about as meaningful as the dragon fight zergs.
TBH, long before the time I’m affording cultural T3 I’d have a full set of exotic to transmute to it anyway.
I think the dragon fights are funnier than they are fun. I think raiding would be the same thing due to the nature of the game and it’s mechanics.
The only kind of mob I’ve ever seen drop an exotic drop from was champion.
it will never work out … problem is not multi guilds but how banners and guild activities are…
problem is there are no guild activities other than click on banner to get buff ..
this effectively is destroying social aspect of this gameit’s pretty much seems from your post that guilds are about some1 being king and other serving …
did you ever been at least officer ? it’s hard work you know? from moderating forum to updating site mumble / ts / vt recruitment creating events ..
I don’t know what game you played before but no one is forcing anyone to be slave in any mmo I played … i
f you think this is reason .. then let me tell you that most guild masters do most works years ago I spent 7 hours days only managing guild crafting consumables preparing tactics for bosses etc
This guy is showcasing the exact mentality I’m speaking of. I never said slave and relate it more to employee and so do you by what you’re saying here. “It’s hard work you know?” Yes we all know its hard work to play a video game and wow you’re really driving my point home. You just admitted to “spending 7 hour days” towards character progression rather than fun. “Look guys at how selfless I am, now this is what I expect of you!” Its soo predictable it isn’t even funny.
The only thing effectively destroying the social aspect of this game is you and others. Theres plenty to do that requires a group. Lets just say what we really mean shall we? Theres nothing in this game that pigeonholds anyone into playing with anyone they don’t want to for the sake of character progression. Thats something were not used to seeing in mmos. So this game allows people to play it with whoever they want for the sake of having fun and a certain demographic of players who many are likely leaders of raid guilds from previous mmos want to wage war on that.
Maybe this just isn’t the game thats going to offer you a social heirarchy for the sake of character progression that you seem to need soo badly.
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They should also add a ‘last online’ column and a ‘influence gained’ column, so guilds who want to kick leechers can do so.
How exactly does one leech from a guild? I’m only seeing the option to contribute.
So what you really mean is to kick those who don’t contribute enough imo.
It’s simple people join guilds only when they have banners active after that they represent another one that got banners … because of this people are joining 400 member guilds with everything usually you see maybe 30 of them representing …
guilds chats are dead … they are no guild activities no clan halls no guild only dungeons or events … that is major issue
it’s not that guild leaders want to feel superior but in past games guilds meant something … for example If anyone mention my guild they know we had great pre made pvp and top progress in raids
we went to bar together chatting and playing various games online etc … now gw 2 feels more like single player game than mmo …
Its beautiful the way it is in my honest opinion. Six months from now these things will work themselves out relatively drama free in comparison to what it would be without this system. You’re also forgetting that smaller groups of player can take advantage of this and effectively have multiple guilds dedicated to different activities when it comes to bonuses that allows players to bounce between guilds depending on which bonuses cater to which activity they chose to engage in. Also, there are alot of guilds on my server that require 100% representation so that scenario with the 400 man guild and only 30 representing is totally optional to begin with. Its all about choice.
I think Anet did the right thing in context to what their game is by working hard to lessen these social heirarchies found in other games that were related to character progression rather than fun.
They should also add a ‘last online’ column and a ‘influence gained’ column, so guilds who want to kick leechers can do so.
How exactly does one leech from a guild? I’m only seeing the option to contribute.
So what you really mean is to kick those who don’t contribute enough imo.
First of all, I have a legendary rifle in my hand, it looks OK, but months of hard work just for a skin makes me feel disappointed . Even some exotic rifles under 10g looks better than it.
I like your idea. That said, by the time your equating playing a video game to “months of hard work” you’re bound to be dissapointed no matter what.
OP, this is a silly thread bordering on trolling. One time buy games without a sub don’t die. Grandma doesen’t give a kitten about WoW or GW2 enough to inform herself on which has a monthly fee and which game asks for a credit card number for bankspace and character slots. Doomsayers and fanboys are no better than one another.
If you look at alot of these arguments against the multiguilding in this thread, they aren’t really arguments against it at all rather than arguments for why Anet needs to provide people who are in control of guilds with more exclusive rights to things in game to help them keep control outside of their guild just being plain fun to be in.
This is why you see the guys in this thread still braging about how legit their recruitment process is or how they screen for “quality players.” Thats because they come from leading guilds in games where its good to be king. They come from games that put them in control of their fellow players character progression and the loss of that power stings when they come play this game.
I just can’t ignore the harm it has done to the guild I’m in, which has always been on the small side, but in other games we always stuck together. Now, if there aren’t enough members logged in at the same time everyone seems to toggle over to different guilds, which only makes the problem worse as other members log in and find the majority of their online guildmates representing elsewhere.
What is the problem exactly, that guilds don’t have the ability to force players to stay and basically be an employee during times they aren’t enjoying themselves? If someone is representing elsewhere its because they are having fun elsewhere and you’re going to begrudge that over what that player isn’t doing for you?
I think its beautiful that this system has reduced mmo monarchs or hierarchies to being mmo politicians and that this change is long overdue.
Because it’s supposed to be a guild or a family that you stick with through good and tough times and help improve, not a club or bar you may or may not choose to visit depending on how happening things are on a given night. If you want the latter, ask for a tool creating a temporary throw-away chat channel, since that appears to be all you’re looking for.
I like how you made up this imaginary desire of mine that all I’m looking for is a throw a way chat channel. All I want from a guild is fun comradery. Then you basically say that people are supposed to stay in a guild through “tough times.” (aka obligated to not have fun in a video game for the greater good)
What I really see is that some people who are used to having power and ruling over others in previous mmos are mad that they don’t have that power anymore and don’t know what to do because now they have to actually be fun to play with and or provide a fun environment for people to stay.
Aren’t you, at the same time, making up this imaginary scenario where I’m somehow “ruling over others” rather than just being a loyal member of a guild who happens to not be blind to the damage the current system is causing to said guild? You’re a bit quick on the assumptions.
You say “All I want from a guild is fun comradery”. I suggested a customizable chat channel that you can fill with people who have similar interests. How is that not satisfying your request?
Look, I get it.. you just want to go where the fun is. But the truth is guilds can have upsides and downsides. And if everyone just floats around to wherever the fun is at any given moment, guild communities won’t survive long term, especially smaller guilds. And, believe it or not, not everyone likes huge guilds.
Why no, I’m not making the same assumption because I didn’t say “you” were mad about it it rather than saying I think “some people.” You directly said “appears to be all you’re looking for.” Why is does debating a point with anyone online ALWAYS have to include someone misconstruing what another types when the evidence is right there for all to see?
I’m in a small guild so understand all too well that not everyone likes huge guilds. I love how you say “I get it, you just wanna go where the fun is.” I could just as easily say I get it, you’re just asking Anet to provide incentive to keep players in a guild up and over those guildies being fun to play with.
I’m not saying you don’t stick with people you like to play with through good times or bad whatever that means. I’m saying as someone who has played mmos for a long time that alot of us have seen our fair share of people staying in guilds they don’t like and playing with people they don’t like because those people have something to offer or better put are in control of something other than themselves being fun to play with let alone being respectful.
In othewords, you don’t have to put up with some disrespectful tyrant leader or officer in a guild because your raid, bonuses, or character progression depends on it. I don’t know why you have a problem with that.
I just can’t ignore the harm it has done to the guild I’m in, which has always been on the small side, but in other games we always stuck together. Now, if there aren’t enough members logged in at the same time everyone seems to toggle over to different guilds, which only makes the problem worse as other members log in and find the majority of their online guildmates representing elsewhere.
What is the problem exactly, that guilds don’t have the ability to force players to stay and basically be an employee during times they aren’t enjoying themselves? If someone is representing elsewhere its because they are having fun elsewhere and you’re going to begrudge that over what that player isn’t doing for you?
I think its beautiful that this system has reduced mmo monarchs or hierarchies to being mmo politicians and that this change is long overdue.
Because it’s supposed to be a guild or a family that you stick with through good and tough times and help improve, not a club or bar you may or may not choose to visit depending on how happening things are on a given night. If you want the latter, ask for a tool creating a temporary throw-away chat channel, since that appears to be all you’re looking for.
I like how you made up this imaginary desire of mine that all I’m looking for is a throw a way chat channel. All I want from a guild is fun comradery. Then you basically say that people are supposed to stay in a guild through “tough times.” (aka obligated to not have fun in a video game for the greater good)
What I really see is that some people who are used to having power and ruling over others in previous mmos are mad that they don’t have that power anymore and don’t know what to do because now they have to actually be fun to play with and or provide a fun environment for people to stay.
(edited by Vlaxitov.5693)
I just can’t ignore the harm it has done to the guild I’m in, which has always been on the small side, but in other games we always stuck together. Now, if there aren’t enough members logged in at the same time everyone seems to toggle over to different guilds, which only makes the problem worse as other members log in and find the majority of their online guildmates representing elsewhere.
What is the problem exactly, that guilds don’t have the ability to force players to stay and basically be an employee during times they aren’t enjoying themselves? If someone is representing elsewhere its because they are having fun elsewhere and you’re going to begrudge that over what that player isn’t doing for you?
I think its beautiful that this system has reduced mmo monarchs or hierarchies to being mmo politicians and that this change is long overdue.
IMHO, Asura hair looks like a wig and they look better without it.
If this feature must remain in the game, there need to be systems in place to make it worth your while to remain in a guild and stop guild hopping and lack of importance on guilds.
I used to not get it either but now I do. Its perfect the way it is and yet another example of Arenanet’s good design choices. I don’t want incentive to stay in a guild for anyother reason than having fun in that guild and thats exactly what you’re suggesting.
There doesen’t need to be systems in place that add incentive to stay in a guild outside of simply enjoying yourself in that guild. Thats like asking Anet to give guild leaders something they can hold hostage and use to coerce players into sticking around even when they are unhappy. No thanks.
(edited by Vlaxitov.5693)