Guild Wars 2

Zogyark.4597:

So what’s the deal with cond/prec/toughness gear, i see many people thinking it’s the best for a necro, why the toughness though? is it because of the staff traits or the undead rune that goes with it? I know that in PvE dungeons having too much toughness will cause mobs to aggro on you more.

I have to admit that Tough is a pretty good defensive stat, although I prefer Carrion sets with Vit.
It is just os pleasing to see a 2,3k Healthpool.
But then again, that Healthpool need sto be filled as well.

I’ve recently switched from a Condition based build with Rabid Gear (CondDmg+Prec+Tough) to a DD/Condition hybrid build (20/30/0/20/0) with a mix of Carrion (CondDmg+Power+Vit) and Rampager (Prec+CondDmg+Power) gear.
It seems to me, that I can survive much less punishment with my vampiric hits, although I use Well fo Corruption and Dagger Focus for fast hitting and fast Vampiric hits. My Critchance is about 45% and I was thinking of getting 30 in BM instead to get Vampiric rituals for that extra boost of Siphon, this would cost me another 5% critchance.
Could it be, that because of my severly lesser Tough, my Siphoning is “worth less” as it doesn not compensate for as much damage any more?

I actually propose dsomething like this a short while ago.
I think a unique Condition for the Necro should do more than just deal damage.
Some effects I though of were:
*increase damage dealt by conditions
*decrease damage dealt by target
*reduce Power and Condition damage
*increase in effectiveness with every additional condition on the enemy
*increase cast time of spells and abilities
*increases critical hit chance against target

Corruption Spells aren’t Overpowered, they’re finely balanced and all working as inteded. They are currently our strongest Utility Category, especially BiP and Epidemic.
plague would need a bit of a Nerf, I admit.
Another buff would be the Signets. Especially Locust and Undeath passive.
Spectrals ar ealso lackluster, just look at Spectral armor. Apart from the protection, Spectral walk beats it in EVERY Category: CD, duration, utility application!
Grasp is slow and buggy, we’ve all been here before!
Wall is kinda Nice, but hard to use and not rewardig if used right. increase prot-duration or add something else (maybe LF for everyone who wlaks through it?).

The pattern I noticed with necro-Weapons is this: all Necro-Weapons are some kind of morbid and cruel Totems! The Staff, Focus and Scepter as standard Attire of the caster, for rituals and summonings. The Dagger as a sign of Stealth and Murder. The Axe as a Murder Weapon for the common man, a deaht out of rage, going into the Shed to get the xe and simply strike that sod down, the weapon of choice for the ordinary madman and the executioneer (I admit the GS would fit the Executioneer-Theme!) And the Warhorn for the Wail of Death, the calling to the Dead and Dread. The Dark Hunt out of Bloodlust and Murderer’s Joy as an Perversion of the noble, protective and caring nature of the Ranger.
I find GS overrated tbh. They’re everywhere and already get too much love in terms of Power and Skins (3 kitten Legendaries are GS!).
I find Torches a way better thought.
Torches are based around the burning-Condition. Adding it to the Necro may be a big step for the devs, but anyways, it’s plausible. Guardians and Mesmers can also add Remove Conditions with it. A Perversion of such a theme would be appropriate. it could have a single target Fear+Burn (Come ON they fit perfectly together) and a combo field that isn’t darkness or poison.
Another though would be offhand Axe!
In both offhand cases it has a Whirling AoE and a Single target Attack.
The Necro Axe focusses around Direct Damage and LF. During Beta we were promised a cone-like Slash Attack for the NecroAxe and it seems as if it would be our AoE-DD weapon. Now we have one longCD skill for that and a line-DD with Staff1.
So why not give it a swipe-like ability.

Examples of what I mean:
#A poster in the same thread already said, that this philosophy has a heavy dent, since a Necromancer enters the battle with empty LF when the enemy has all its skills ready to unleash the full fury, while the LF fills towards the end of the fight while the enemy really can’t do that much damage any more. I think signet of undeath is supposed to fill that gap, but is currently too weak to pull it off while at the same time having an outrageous cooldown. BiP used to be able to give us a decent 20% LF with a bit and Reaper’s touch also gives a good ammount of LF in a short time. But just because Signet of Undeath is so weak, I would propose a buff here. Or maybe a trait that allows for an instant gain of LF on certain conditions (like “Your first LF gain after entering combat grants you and additional 15%” similar to an opening shot, this would actually be way better than the currently defunct 5% extra LF gain in SR5)

#Another Player stated that most Mobility-focussed classes/builds can easily escape even Necros, because they are nearly always build around condition removal. Here I’d like to put forward an opposite example: The rangers AoE snare. You can’t get out of it without stopping to attack the Ranger and start attacking the kitten vines! It’s infurating. The Ranger is a Class hard to get away FROM while at the same time easy to get away AS! Meanwhile, the Necro doesn’t have any snare that isn’t a Condition. He has one daze (close Range) no Knockdowns or knockbacks, one utility Pull that’s bugged and one slow-moving, easy to dodge projectile Shadowstep. I as a Sylvari like to use the single target vines-spell that has the same functionality and also adds bleeding a bit. But for non-Sylvari and in sPvP it’s useless. Why can’t Necros have something similar. it could be worked into Grasping Dead (make it a targeted Spell with a vine-like effect on the main target and the usual effect as an AoE) or Dark Pact. Actually, I’d like to see Dark Pact to be a knockdown, maybe even with the condition that the target has to be moving to be knocked down, that would be cool: “Stay still and you can keep attacking me, but try to move and you’re on your face before me!” Sounds to me like proper Control-based gameplay.

#The fact that Necromancer is supposed to be a premier condition class while at the same time being unable to keep up with Rangers, thieves and Eles in terms of stacking-speed. Sure, he CONTROLS conditions better and the fact that I cheer everytime an enemy buffs itself to the brim with boons or unloads all sorts of COnditions onto me speaks for the Necros strange, twisted relation to sickness, death and injury, but in terms of gameplay, that just makes him on par with the other classes in terms of Conditions. I like the fact however, that through his Attribute-Trait-Allocations, he is capable of building for Conditions and still dish out respectable Direct Damage, i myself am driving a Power/Condition hybrid build and actually pretty good at switching between Condition- and DD Weapons. So stacking up Conditions faster shouldn’t be that big of a priority. The Curses25 is supposed to adress that issue I guess, don’t know how much it actually does, since it’s bugged, but would be interesting to see, another idea: add another, exclusive(!!!), condition: Curses, but that’s hard to implement and balance around for.

#Fear is lackluster and an insult to the Necro, we have 1 single target 1s fear, 1 AoE 1s fear, 1 Cone 12 Fear (underwater) and a single target 2s Fear (downed). All other classes that can fear, can fear LONGER and sometimes even longer AoE. Instead of giving the Necro a longer fear, how about giving him a 1s Fear on 25% of Critical hits? Could be Soul Reaping. Combined with “Fear does Damage” (for those unaware: Dmg=1.5Lvl+(15% CondDmg) while Bleeding=0.5Lvl+(5% CondDmg)+2.5). And it would fit nicely with the CritDmg in SR.

Those are all the basic suggestions I currently have, what about yours?

So recently, thanks to the immense influx of cake-bribed Devs answering our question, we have gotten some insight on what the Necro is supposed to be in contrast to what he is now.
the most important Post was that of Jonathan Sharp in the “PHEW” Thread. Sadly I cant directly quote him

Game Designer

So, quickly, on the design philosophy at play here (you can feel free to disagree, but this is what I feel):

We want the Thief to be the class that most “slips through your fingers”. Other classes like the Ele and Mes have some of it too (and rightly so), but if anyone is escaping a fight, that should be a slippery Thief.

The Necro, on the other hand, should be the dude you CANNOT get away from. It’s an attrition based class, so the idea is that if you lock horns w/ a necro, know what you’re getting into: you’re fighting a class that’s built for attrition. It can dot you, dps you, rip your boons, and severely hinder your movement. AND it also has the ability to soak up a lot of damage. So the longer the fight goes, the stronger the Necro should get. That’s the idea behind Death Shroud, but little escape ability.

So we don’t want that attrition class to also have great ways to escape. This used to be the case, and we felt the Necro was just too strong if it was great at attrition as well as movement/escape. We wanted the Necro to be more about attrition, and for other classes (Thief, Ele, Mes) to be more about escaping and mobility.

Hope that makes sense.

This is why I want to Propose a thread in which we collect all suggestions on how this could be achieved. And PLEASE with reasoning behind it, not just “Buff this cause it’s too weak”. I like the philosophy behind the Necro because I always liked attrition classes, outlasting the enemy, watching them die.

Axe is incredibly UP atm.
You better go with offhand focus and Well of corruption for Vuln, especially because Focus4 also gives LF and Health as well as a good ammount of dmg.
Axe wa sinitially supposed to be an Arc-Like weapon like ALL MELEE WEAPONS ON ALL CLASSES (except Dagger) but was scratched in favor of increased range.
I really find it stupid that Staff1 is our only way of dealing multiple enemy-dmg with an autoattack, while all other classes have at least an arc-like swing. And then there’s the Dagger for Elementalist, OH how envious i am of those skills!

I also thought about this, but I came to a different conculsion:
Necroamncers are a premier condition class. So even if you’re going for Crit or Power, you still can utilize Conditions pretty good.
Switching between a condition and a direct damage based weapon is easy and not limiting.
Necromancers are supposed to be hybrids, having a uique playstyle BECAUSE of their attribute distribution, depending on how you build them: Conditin/DirectDamage
Crit/Selfheal
Bunker/support

I realize that critical Damage is illplaced, but then again, it isnt really that important anyways, because other than critical Chance, it is only usefull when you have alot of direct damage anyways. Crit leads to bleeding and self heal. Although both could be more reliable or powerful.
Better invest in Spite instead of Soul Reaping, giving you longer Conditions. Conditions such as Chill, Vulnerability or Fear, all very usefull to kiting and a defensive Playstyle.
In Fact, except for Curses, every Traitline has at least one defensive Attribute, if you allow the stretch with Condition duration.
I actually like the current layout. Just make Deathmagic usefull to anyone else than MM and we have pretty balanced trees with alot of synergies.

Necromancers aren’t easy to play. If you want that play Thief or Warrior, no difficulties with building and playing there.
Necros, like Mesmers and Engies, are hard to play. You have to think of Synergies and Combat tactics, fight several enemies at a time, manage your minions (once they’re fixed), and so on.
If we just had more support capabilities, Necros would be a hard but incredibly versatile class.
And for gearing: Try Carrion: Condition Damage, Power and Vitality.
And if you want a good portionof Crit as well, mix some Rampager (Prec, Cond and Power) or Emerald (Prec, Power and Tough) into it.
Itemization isn’t supposed to be simple and easy. Just look at all the Warriors and Thiefs that go nothing but berzerkers: You keep them away from you and switch to DS at the right time and they are as squishy as ripe plum. But they are a good source of income for anyone who has alot of Blood-Vials and Rubies

After all, I agree that Healing Power is lost to us, but it belongs into BloodMagic.
If he Scaling would be upped a bit, it would be incredibly usefull and Guardians are a perfect example how overloading a class with heal is damaging to all else, since guardians are widely seen as an absolute must if people want to go dungeons.

TL;DR: Look for synergies, wair for bugfixes and look into Carrion. Most Trait-Issues are because of UP mechanics and bugs, not because of Attribute distribution.

Sheobix.8796:

I think i posted some footage of my endgame dagger/dagger necro and from what you can see, its extremely durable and long lasting in PvE.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_wrqBWFZDw

1:38 pretty much sums up what pve necro is like

What is your gear?

Anshard.3489:

Don’t you know the only class that needs to work is Thief? Make one class have massive burst dmg plus stealth for all the screaming kiddies and then slowly work on every other class.

Sadly, while I am mostly joking, anyone that has played the bulk of MMOs over the last decade knows this is not far from the truth. Appease the ADHD first, focus on those with patience second. (i.e. classes that require more than two buttons to win a fight)

It’s incredible how in every MMO I ever played ( I played alot, even if not all of them for very long) Thiefs were one of the most OP classes, one of the most popular and the one with the kiddiest forum screaming.
Second was in almost all cases ranger.
Also ranger are always the botter class!

WHAT?!
A RED POST?
You DO exist!
Might wanna Check your mail for 2 large packages, sir!

Build?
I also have Clerics Gear and thought about padding it with Shamans weapons and Acessoires!

I have 2 suggestions to make about 2 important and frequent problems of the Necro:
The hard capping of Conditions in big fights
and that DS is useless.

First the Conditions.
Introduce a Condition that is TRULY unique to the Necromancer:
Curse; Increases Damage received from Conditions by X%. Stacks in intensity.
Make X around 5-15, depending how common it is on Skills.

Now the DS.
I cam to the Conclusion, that because of the 4 Skills DS has, it cannot accomodate every Playstyle and because of traits currently can’t be customized to fit them all (but I like that Idea)

Another Idea I find cool is the following:
When Entering DS Necros are locked out of their 6-0 Skills but keep their current 1-5 Skills.

The Weapon skills are enhanced and upgraded by DS but cost LF to cast. This buff could dramaticly change how they work. for example Scepter:
*Blood Curse: deals direct damage based on the ammount of Bleeding charges the target has
*Grasping Dead: the Dead grasp forward and hold the enemies in place for 2 seconds. After 2 seconds, the bones of the Dead pierce the enmies in the area, applying bleed and cripple.
*Feast of Corruption: The enemy recieves Damage based on the number of conditions on him, removes one boon for every condition and grants them to the Necromancer

Dagger:
*Necrotic Flurry: unleash a unending flurry of strikes. Each consecutive hit on an enemy increases the damage of the next one, but also its LF consumption
*Life Siphon: Instantly deal the damage and gain the Health without channeling
*Dark Pact: Knocks the target down
*Deathly Swarm: Sends out an entire Wave of Insects, applying its effects on all enemies in front of you
*Enfeebling Blood: Teleport to target location, blinds enemies.

These are the weapons I could come up with fitting upgrades for.

I think the DS should allow all players to “up” their game, try to change it in a certain direction, keep the enemies on their toes and not sacrifice the usefullness of their gear and build. The Profession-mechanics should be able to be seamlessly integrated into the playstyle and that’s why they are all either pretty basic (like the virtues and the shatterings) or based on what the player chose to bring to the fight (like the adrenaline-strikes and the toolbelt.) For the Necro it is neither of both. it can’t be changed nor is it basic in any way.

I hope you find these Suggestions reasonable and interesting. Although they will never ever become real judging by currents standard of even the basic fixing!

First the extra Bleeding von Barbed Precission and extra Healing from Vampiric Precission.

There are 2 effects!
Siphoning Health is unique to Necromancers and does not scale with healing Power, however it DOES get increased with Boodthirst. Vampiric, Dagger2, Vampiric Precission, and Signet of the Locust scale with it, Vampiric Master and Vampiric Rituals does not, but it’s considered a Bug.

STEAL Life is an effect by Sigils, Runes and Combos and DOES scale with healing, but not with Bloodthirst.

Hey, I’m looking for a healthy Power+Condition build with gearing options.
I was thinking of at least 20/20 but unsure where to put the remaining points. Is 30 in BM good for a Well build?
Would it be Dagger+Dager+Scepter+Focus or should I switch one set for Staff?

For gearing I thought about Carrion with a few Rampager equipment thrown in.

Don’t forget the luaghable Major traits like 1% LF with a third of every critical hit.

And the passive constant heal that eles get with 5 points in Water is more effective and scales with Healing Power, while we have to hit at least 5 enemies critical to get even close to that ammount, no matter if we are traited and equipped for heal to the brim!

Most boring class and least flexible.
Les flexible than the warrior in fact and he only has one skill to his F-buttons. But he can switch that one with weapons, and that’s the infuriating part about necros! We can’t switch our mechanic-skills!

I prefer Rabid sets (can’t be crafted sadly) with Condition damage main and Toughess and Precission Minor. It gives good survivability and around 50% crit chance on complete yellow.
I deal at least 120 dmg per stack bleeding per second and combined with sigil of corruption and might goes up to 140 no probs.

I wish Necros and Engies got this much love.

Necros are still oozing bugs out of every orifice and some of them are more or less gamebreakingly horrible. They get 2 minor bugfixes while the major bugs actually accumulate with every patch
Engineers have it similar
Rangers are nerfed to ground

And you guys are complaining that mobility buff, a 70% damage increase on an already OP weapon skill and a decent bugfix are “not enough”!
Ever thought that maybe other classes are way more deserving of the unwarranted attention you’re getting?

I completely agree with the notion. I actually am for removing DS with something that complements any Necro playstyle.
The basic idea that DS is some kind of blank slate that is upgraded with specific functionalyity via traits is nice, but the ammount of functionality actually added is laughable.

Hey there, let me tell you a litte bit:

I really liked the Necromancer in GW1, not just because of touchrangers.
I liked Minion-Bombing, I like heal/support the Necro was capable of while still dealing damage to enemies. I liked the synergies with Energy-Expensive Sec-Classes.
The Soul-Reaping from GW1 really got a good transition to GW2 and the Hexmancers/Conditionmancers work well with the Condition/boon-System.

But that’s where the good things end.
First, Deathshroud.
I get that it’s supposed to be a second state, some kind of dark and mysterious state in which the Necromancers has become closer to an incarnation of death. the concept sounds cool.
But because of how the skills currently work and how bad they are, it doesn’t look like that. It’s like a trouble-bubble for Necros with 1 or 2 nice skills attached, if you traited correctly.
The Boz said alot of important things about it in https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Death-Shroud-I-never-asked-for-this
The (imho) most important points are:
-only 1-2 out of 4 skills is usually usefull to a build
-most skills are lackluster
-does not add a unique touch to the Necro-Gameplay like many other unique gameplay mechanics do

I’m here to Discuss what can be made different, completely different.

Another thing I hate about the new Necro are the minions. Apart from being stupid as hell and almost as usefull as a wet towel inside of Mount Maelstrom, the entire system doesn’t work.
The sequence skill-system is not how it’s supposed to work.
Minions used to be a ressource. You could use the vampiric ones for heal, you could use the twin ones for raising a large army fast or you could use the standard ones for sturdy classical warfare. You could make them explode, use them as stored Healthpool, use them a smeatshields and keep the healed with your own health.
In GW2, they are like one trick ponies: one attack, one special skill.
It’s not anymore what the Necromancer does with them, but which he ha and how he is traited.
The Necromancer should take back his ability to command an army!

That’s why I propose (I know noone of importance will ever hear my pleas, but still, let me dream!):
Remove Deathshroud
And replace it with 4 skills for the F-Buttons that use Lifeforce:
*A sustained “beam” that deals more damage the longer it is sustained (like GS Memser used to have)
*A flash forward that blinds enemies in an area (like Dark path was promised to be)
*A summon for a standard Minion, up to 5 Minions maybe
*A soul-shield to keep the bubble for those who grew fond of it.

The Minion skills would be replaced with skills that change how a minion acts. One would bind down a minion and make it immobilize enemies, one would consume a minion for health, one would make a minion seep it’s Health out to allies untill it dies, one would make it kaimikaze, etc. Maybe you could keep the Golem, cause that is one cool minion to have.
The Skills would be able to be pressed in quick succession for multiple applications before going on cooldown OR have a low cooldown time (~5-10 seconds).
The idea is to make minions a ressource again. You can expend all your minions to immobilize the enemy, but would quickly loose them to AoE, you could kill them for health or kamikaze, You could slowly regenerate yourself and your team, but loose your minions more quickly to an attack and have their effectiveness reduced, or you could just make a healthy, but less effective mix.

Right now, I HATE minions, not just because of their lackluster abilities and stats, but because they seem so boring and moot. Look at a Necromancer and you know what he will do with his minions. There is no concealed strategy. A Minion-master is easy to counter in PvP and the only suprise would be when he uses which minion.