Guild Wars 2

Harny.6012:

Windsagio.1340:

spoj.9672:

I think you are being silly for judging him.

Sometimes you get to the point where players doing things that make no sense to you just gets on your nerves.

And so he does a forum rant complete with FULLCAPSYELLING?

You guys dont’ like that people call the dungeon community toxic, but change starts at home.

You call him toxic because he did the same thing that’s happening in every sub-section of these forums?

I’m not interacting with them am I?

PS: Tribalism is no good. Examine the behavior (crying to the forums because a fractal took an extra 3 minutes), not the group the player is a part of.

deSade.9437:

Looks like you enjoy rummaging in the trashcan as much as the likes of me or other mere mortals

I’m not the one calling it that :p Still, it’s interesting especially when people aren’t being, well, like this. It’s fun talking about tactics and discoveries etc.

spoj.9672:

Windsagio.1340:

and yet culture heads call their own forum ‘the trash can’ and wonder why devs are reluctant to engage in here.

I think that reference is probably lost on you to be fair.

Oh totally. Mind sharing? I live to learn

and yet culture heads call their own forum ‘the trash can’ and wonder why devs are reluctant to engage in here.

deSade.9437:

It’s so easy to be patronizing and judgemental when it comes to this kind of emotional reactions… and yet each and every person on this earth has experienced this frustration multiple times in their lives, when things just don’t work out or march so slowly your nerves fray in the process. Some people are more impatient than others and like things to go “according to plans”, else they get upset; still, the self-righteous Others keep associating negativity and nasty characteristics to this inclination.
Stress/expectations/impatience =/= psychopatic serial killer

Nice oversell there :p

You can call it whatever you like, but these outbursts sure don’t help, and sure don’t make dungeon people look good.

Think of the context:

A successful boss kill in a mmo took 4 minutes and this is an apparently justified cause for freakout

I’m all for empathy, and I understand the frustration of a run not going the way you’d like, but this is honestly absurd.

spoj.9672:

I think you are being silly for judging him.

Sometimes you get to the point where players doing things that make no sense to you just gets on your nerves.

And so he does a forum rant complete with FULLCAPSYELLING?

You guys dont’ like that people call the dungeon community toxic, but change starts at home.

spoj.9672:

Windsagio.1340:

EDIT: This is directed @AVHero

dude’s mad the guy in healing made him fail. It’s a classic example of how ‘zerk meta’ people get in trouble, and that’s the thrust of my post.

Raging at others for failure is a classic ugly symptom. In addition, blaming build on failure on what’s honestly pretty easy content is even classicer.

This wasn’t a 65. Or even a 50.

My impression was that the issue was whats the point in healing in a fight where you either dont get hit and live or you get hit and are very likely to die. So yeah…

That’s a really inaccurate description of that fight though, especially at that scale. The fact that they (per the story) pounded on the zerker for 4 mins and succeeded shows the point.

And my mistake with whether he succeeded above makes it worse. He’s mad because the whole fight took longer than he wanted (while still being relatively quick). That’s simply silly.

It’s conceptual outrage, which we’d be better off without.

That might be worse, if it’s true.

@OP

Get a grip dude, fight took longer than you wanted?

I think you’re working backwards from a narrative you’ve already decided on. There’s really nowhere to go with the discussion from there.

EDIT: This is directed @AVHero

dude’s mad the guy in healing made him fail. It’s a classic example of how ‘zerk meta’ people get in trouble, and that’s the thrust of my post.

Raging at others for failure is a classic ugly symptom. In addition, blaming build on failure on what’s honestly pretty easy content is even classicer.

This wasn’t a 65. Or even a 50.

phys.7689:

Windsagio.1340:

People really can’t tell the difference between ‘not gaining play value’ and ‘losing play value’, can they?

Well you are going to have to elaborate on what you mean, because people used to have things they no longer have.

lower dungeon incentives
less daily chests available
unknown (but seemingly lower) drop rates for old reward levels
less guild functions

far as i can see people lost value. Unless you meant something else

In order:
1) I presume you mean less gold drop. This isn’t a bought vs. didn’t buy thing.
2) More dailies sorted differently. You’re awarded both for ‘3 in a category’ and for ‘suggested fractal’
3) As you say yourself, you’re guessing. Non-liquid rewards are changed to the degree that it’s hard to judge. Psychology makes us assume its for the worst.
4) Oh really? Also wildly offtopic.

Also, as phys mentioned, it’s not like a 40 fractal should be that difficult, they’re scaled WAY lower than before.

If you can only beat a 40 molten duo by doing a stack’n’burn with an as-optimal-as-possible dps comp, that’s on you.

People really can’t tell the difference between ‘not gaining play value’ and ‘losing play value’, can they?

I want to more focus on that they’re not being denied any rewards.

They’re losing out on things that make getting the rewards and progression easier, but it’s not like “oh nothing in your chests, sorry!”

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Aitadis.8269:

You need to attune your rings first before you infuse them to get the double agony infusion slot. So you would have to buy new rings, attune them, then infuse them. Most likely a bug and will be fixed but who knows how long that will take. So use the extractor on your current infused rings so you don’t lose out on the infusions at least.

That is not true as I attuned my already infused rings.

As did I

Trying to think what’s absolutely blocked:

1) Mastery merchant (currently disabled anyways)
a) Efficient agony conversion (bug?)
b) Infusion Extracotrs
c) Attuned Ascended rings

2) Increased rewards – noting that as far as I can tell, this doesn’t directly relate to any specific item, but just gives you more of what you were already getting.

3) Minor ‘nice to haves’ like the singularities and the potions (supposedely) having greater impact:

Base rewards aren’t gated behind HOT.

HOT:
1) Makes access to higher levels and (some) new rewards possible
2) Makes completing the higher levels easier.

Scaling seems to be adjusted downwards, and AR is (at least at 50). This is literally a case of HOT purchasers gain access to new content, nonpurchasers do not.

**Except nonpurchasers largely do, they just have a harder time.

Again, was moss when I did it the other day.

mauro.7384:

Ye i understrand. i didn’t know so i just made 2 +9 infusion with that marchant then i sold at the tp without thinking that maybe was bad because i used less infusion than normal to craft them and they are not account bound.

It’s a perk of the mastery. I’d take advantage of it before the market normalizes :p

(I’m not, gonna need those higher level ones ><)

I think that one’s safe as intentional; It’s one of the primary advantages of the merchant.

More importantly, if there is no discount, there’s no reason to do it through the vendor (presuming you have at least one artificer, and if you’re doing fractals you do(

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

rush in man.4506:

wich lvl you ned to kill mosman on ? swamp fractal is ounly scale 2 (bloom) and 21 ( mossman) but for chalange you need to kill mosman in frac 1-20 so wich one do i go to. or its a overlooked thing just like CoF farm

2 is not bloom if I remember correctly.

2 is mossman, 3 is aquatic (for the other challenge mote). I’d bet big bucks they intentionally put those challenges for the first stage collection on levels 2 and 3.

Shiro legend has some insanely fun (as well as useful) skills. The other ones feel a bit lackluster to me, although yellow brick road is funny.

Elitejelly.7462:

ionix.9054:

So if I expensive agony infusions in my rings, do I lose them?

Anyone? I have 2 +10’s and would hate to lose them.

There’s an extraction device you can buy from the same vendor

most painful thing ever.

1/19 in collection, 19/19 in wardrobe (the 1 is the one I had to buy)

QUESTION 1 I think that the ‘increased rewards’ from mastery 3 adds 2 drops to the chest:

1) 3x +1 agony (in addition to the extra)
2) 1x Fractal encryption

QUESTION 2/3

From what I can tell, same rules as previously, your personal level caps your reward level.

QUESTION 4
From my memory of the weekend
2x encryption boxes (+1 with mastery)
3 drops of +1 agony infusions (*number in each drop increases based on level)
random crap.

QUESTION 5
kitten , I want to know the answer for this.

Edit: I’ll work with my buddies tonight and try to get some specific notes. At least this way we’ll get a good record of the fixed drops.

Xx EvilPrincess xX.4865:

This seems to be a bug at the moment. if you extract the infusions from your rings using the extraction kit you can’t use those rings in the mystic forge anymore

This was not true for me unless something changed since Saturday.

I’m stuck between being amazed at your classist prejudices and remembering that most rangers seem to still be in Point Blank Shot Meta.

Still, the problem isn’t rangers, it’s bad rangers.

The Last laugh tier was a pretty big PITA (although it made some of the fights much more interesting). I honestly think they put at 50-60 as a way of blocking off people from full progression who had to rely on the old patterns.

Edit: Of the ones I’ve done (currently waiting on some friends to work out some agony issues so we can progress as a group) 59 cliff was probably the trickiest though (on the flipside we were 4man, which probably didn’t help).

Add me to the ‘wow that’s dumb’ group. I even have a sylvari I can do it with, but it’s still just obscenely stupid.

The elemental source is the worst thing in the game, hard or not. Scaling’s way easier now so it’s not a problem but the idea of dying to OMGCHAINKNOCKDOWN even more if something goes wrong is not pleasing to me.

gah bug still bugged

I See No Tomorrow.7302:

It’ll be 3am for me. They decided to go with a midnight launch in their timezone, which I think is pretty reasonable. And since HoT will be around for ages (unlike the beta tests) there’s not as much pressure to be online right at 12:01 am PST

Your name synchronizes well with this discussion, somehow

If they banned folks for being kitteny and passive-aggressive there’d be no forums.

~~~

To the OP’s “Point”, I’ll agree that it’s totally unheard of for Anet to add new maps without an expansion. Also, we know that there are exactly 40 hero points in the new regions.

Heaven forbid you try it.

(visual aid)

Ayrilana.1396:

Windsagio.1340:

Ayrilana.1396:

Windsagio.1340:

Difference in tiers is meaningless except as an interesting number.

Pretty much. That’s why I normally refer to the damage increase when talking about the difference

The danger in this is that the numbers get really unpredictable once we start talking about non-zerk stats. Every stat type scales differently, and the weapon damage difference is irrelevant to most of them.

Goes to a point from earlier the prior damage calculation assumes a zerk meta, which is not a safe assumption for raids

Which stats would cause a larger gap between exotic and ascended than berserker?

I meant the opposite, silly.

There are a few things that put more likely difference into zerker (most specifically weapon stats) as compared to other stats, especially defensive ones.

“Add something to make me stronger!” thread!

Ayrilana.1396:

Windsagio.1340:

Difference in tiers is meaningless except as an interesting number.

Pretty much. That’s why I normally refer to the damage increase when talking about the difference

The danger in this is that the numbers get really unpredictable once we start talking about non-zerk stats. Every stat type scales differently, and the weapon damage difference is irrelevant to most of them.

Goes to a point from earlier the prior damage calculation assumes a zerk meta, which is not a safe assumption for raids

Ayrilana.1396:

BaconofPigs.1683:

Ayrilana.1396:

Windsagio.1340:

Conncept.7638:

Your argument isn’t even a little bit accurate because ascended gear is not a 12.5% increase in damage, it’s a 12.5% increase in STATS, which translates to significantly less than a 12.5% increase in damage.

Can we get a final, notarized result on what the actual bonuses are? I’ve heard at least 3 different versions in this thread alone.

Someone did the math back in April.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/31wbip/ascended_vs_exotic_gear_comparison_spreedsheet

And Dulfy says the stat difference is 5%.

http://dulfy.net/2013/12/12/gw2-ascended-armor-stats/

Yeah, for the pieces themselves yes. But Dulfy here is bias. You wouldn’t compare the stat increase without taking into account of

1. Base stats
2. Buffs

Yes?

So it’s clearly biased. You don’t just compare the pieces of the equipment alone. The stat difference with you take into account of those 1000 base stats and 600+ from buffs would come out to be about 2% not 5%.

For example, just an example here: Say piece A. has +100 power, Piece B has +110 power

According to this, piece B has 10% more stats than piece A. But when you take into account of base stat, which you should because it’s part of your total stat.

Then how is 1100 compares to 1110? See? The stat raise is (1110 – 1100)/1100 = 0.09 = 0.9%, not 10%. That’s how math works.

Here’s a spreadsheet that Skywing posted in the other thread:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1eNgeDoVO9aIqqqYHYTC_IjV0H3eOm7ZL1WNour02cE0/edit?usp=sharing

We’re talking about stat differences between tiers for equipment. If we’re going to include base stats then we’re better off going the route of calculating the damage increase.

Difference in tiers is meaningless except as an interesting number.

— and accepting that, the vast majority of the damage comes from the weapon.

Conncept.7638:

Your argument isn’t even a little bit accurate because ascended gear is not a 12.5% increase in damage, it’s a 12.5% increase in STATS, which translates to significantly less than a 12.5% increase in damage.

Can we get a final, notarized result on what the actual bonuses are? I’ve heard at least 3 different versions in this thread alone.

Torolan.5816:

So you think it could be a Pavlov´s dog case? Ring the bell and the goodie is not even necessary anymore? Although that could actually be accurate and would really fill out my last unachieved stereotype about hardcore raiders if I think about it, why put a reward in at all? The bell is rung, the dogs will appear anyway with or without a goodie to get.

The reward is the legendary armor (+ apparent ‘unique drops’) that’s still there and that’s the bait.

In my mind it’s less about reflexive reactions and more about comfort zones.

The comfort zone for raiders is Time investment == unique benefits. If ascended works as a limitation (which again I don’t believe in), it fits perfectly in that system by adding an investment filter on the content. They love that kitten.

Edit: Because, even if they’re starting from scratch, they know they’ll pass that barrier with some work and they’re willing to put in the work.

Torolan.5816:

Windsagio.1340:

maddoctor.2738:

Astralporing.1957:

Possibly. They may have been doing spvp/WvW roaming up to that point, and actually be better skilled than most raiders, you know.

The chances of a spvp/wvw player to come do PVE just for raids are very slim. If they had an interest in instanced content they would’ve done some already. Raids won’t change that and also being good at spvp or wvw doesn’t make someone an expert at dungeon running by default.

In the end, I doubt this whole “ascended is recommended” discussion is aimed at spvp and wvw players, but rather at pve players who had no interest in instanced content so far but yet want to participate in Raids, and just in Raids, for some reason.

I still think it’s aimed at people who like raids and are thinking about buying HOT

If that truly is the case, why put a set of armor behind it at all? Why not something entirely new or just a title if it is a new layer of customers Anet wants to attract? As maddoctor already said, people that did for example fractals at high level are probably much more willing to do raids than your casual guy who plays an hour a day maximum. So that group surely won´t get bigger, rather smaller when you substract guys like me who do raids as long as they deem it to be necessary and then never set foot in one again. So your only way out if it is indeed an entirelly new set of players that are willing to level and gear up.

I also think that WvW players and SPvPers are the most unlikely participants in raids. You don´t need legendary gear in wvw, ascended or even exotic does the trick if you know how to play your chosen class. PvE was already there the whole time, why enter now with something much more time consuming coming in when people could not be moved to enter the less time consuming stuff?
It´s even worse in the case of pure SPvPers, why should they step foot into PvE at all? They get all they need to play and will see a large influx of easy victims with HoT. So why bother with raids?

Because of expectations: Raiders are willing to work to get the gear requirements, it’s a rule they’re very used to.

It both gives a more familiar experience and gives them a desired filter (once they’ve revved up to speed).

maddoctor.2738:

Astralporing.1957:

Possibly. They may have been doing spvp/WvW roaming up to that point, and actually be better skilled than most raiders, you know.

The chances of a spvp/wvw player to come do PVE just for raids are very slim. If they had an interest in instanced content they would’ve done some already. Raids won’t change that and also being good at spvp or wvw doesn’t make someone an expert at dungeon running by default.

In the end, I doubt this whole “ascended is recommended” discussion is aimed at spvp and wvw players, but rather at pve players who had no interest in instanced content so far but yet want to participate in Raids, and just in Raids, for some reason.

I still think it’s aimed at people who like raids and are thinking about buying HOT

The dungeons already have unique loot. It’s just not the crazy good gold farm.

I get people not wanting to admit it, but I’ve still seen nothing to show tat people are upset about anything other than losing the easy fast farm.

phys.7689:

The difference is you think they wont do that, i think its highly likely they will try. They may not succeed, but that is their intent.

like i said, right now they are tweaking it based on the performance of highly coordinated boss hunters and speed clearers, and whatever they can come up with. Their intention is that the top 5% will feel ascended is valued in this fight.

basically it will get easier, but mostly cause people will know good team compositions, and they will get better at the game.

If they tune it that tightly, the mode will fail. I’d hope they learned the lessons of their previous content and don’t make the same mistake again.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Achievement points are not required for dungeon runs, either. It literally does not matter whether it the content can be completed without it, Ascended will be required for “meta” PuG runs. The rationale will run something like, “Any statistical advantage is an advantage, no matter how slight, and ‘we’ don’t run with those who haven’t made the effort to get fully kitted out.” Or just, “Only ‘bad’ players didn’t bother to get Asc.”

Why is that so important to people that there is a limit? Is it what I said above, that they long for the most ‘progression-raid-like’ experience they can, that they want to exclude other people based on time investments instead of skill level?

It’s really bizarre to me how much people want this limitation.

No phys, you’re missing my point.

Point 1 goes like this: Prior considerations of Ascended advantage only focused on DD DPS to the negation of all other effects. This is likely no longer be the case, in which case the impact of ascended gear is lessened.

As to the rest, I’ll repeat my feeling on that tweet and it’s follow-ups: Either the dev was talking out their kitten and not thinking (as shown by the retraction) OR It’s a marketing derived statement because they want to give raiders considering buying HOT the feeling that the experience will be familiar as possible.

Shortly, it’s a mistake or it’s a PR scam

~~~

I don’t have a horse in this race, I do fractals regularly so I have ascended armor out the yin-yang.. That being said, the claim that ascended matter will be ‘required’/‘heavily reccomended’ makes no godkitten sense based on our current understanding of the game.

I’ll grant your point that they could hamhandedly shoehorn a side-effect that gear gates on ascended (shades of the resist fights from early wow, epseically the SR gate in Black Temple), but if they were gonna do that , why not just use agony? For the reason that they have an effect they could use and they’re not, I doubt that will be their answer.

EDIT: Sorry for abusing bold, my posts tend to be wordy, so I use it to apply the key points for people skimming

And the question of the stats difference is really up in the air too.

Still, a few guidelines:

1) The difference for physical DPS is greater than the difference in stats. This didn’t matter previously, but it could possibly now.
2) The vast vast vast majority of the advantage in ascended gear comes from the weapons and secondarily the trinkets. Ascended Armor is essentially meaningless.

Short answer: It’s crap. They can recommend anything they want, But if they tune to ascended they’re tuning to a nearly fixed party structure (because class and build are more important than gear) and to a skill level that excludes a far too large number of playrs (proper skill usage/rotation is also far more important than gear).

Trixie.7614:

What about people who don’t have friends to do raids with? How is that “you need 10 players to do hard content” even a thing? Hard content should be hard for YOU, not begging someone else to not mess up.

Do fractals. They’re as easy as (or maybe easier) than dungeons at low levels, and the fights have some meat to them.