Guild Wars 2

So per Miku, in the specialized case that 99.99% of even serious runners don’t care about, and making several related assumptions about risk/payout (and according to this one person), mesmers are better.

~~~

Mesmers are immensely useful in pve, though, especially after the buffs;

They’re right about that part. Guardian haste in no way negates mesmer haste, and also in no way negates things like veil and mass invis.

Our minds tend to want to see patterns where there aren’t one.

RNG is just messing with your head.

yanipheonu.5798:

OH MY GOD. IT’LL NEVER END.

We are entitled to nothing, and this was never about some misplaced sense of respect. Be glad we even have the chance for a free bonus with preorder.

I think (pray) this one’s a parody post.

I’m in a small guild, and we’re going to wrangle the resources to get our hall opened up. We probably won’t get most of the buildings built, like, ever, but we’ll still make the hall – With luck we can use it to host performances.

Jerus.4350:

Windsagio.1340:

The new meta is that everythings buffed so much it doesn’t remotely matter unless you’re racing

This I agree with, to the extent that Condi vs Power, well who really cares unless you’re really in to min/maxing completely. Defensive builds are still going to lack, and go far enough it might even be noticeable

Well put. Output is output right now and output is crazy

The new meta is that everythings buffed so much it doesn’t remotely matter unless you’re racing

You don’t know how well the presales are doing tho :p

I agree, we wall want all the info you listed, but I would try to put myself in their shoes to understand why they might not be releasing that information yet.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Windsagio.1340:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

thomdane.3670:

From Colin Johanson:
Lord.4270:
Hi,
We are a guild of 3 guys . We love WWW.
With Guild halls , we will have to do guild missions.
So why we have to do puzzle jump and things like this , when in this game we just love killing people on the battlefield !
Why can t we play as we want .. ??

ColinJohanson:
HoT will include a solution for this for both guilds that are WvW, and PvP oriented that want to build and expand their Guild Halls and need the favor generated by guild missions. Same goes for guilds that have a mix of players interested in all three. More info down the road a bit on how this will work once we’ve got it a little more solid on our end.
Edited to add: Everyone will have to do the actual mission to capture the guild hall once per hall though no matter what. If your group online is too small, you’ll need to invite friends (or pay/beg/sing-songs-to-woo peeps in Lion’s Arch!) to come with you and help you claim the guild hall to own one. Or you could always grow your guild

In other words

“If you aren’t at least 15 people, you aren’t a guild”

RIP – SSW
Founded June 1st 2006

Is asking for help so terrible?

Some of us prefer to do things ourselves, with people we know and trust. Isn’t that the whole point of a guild? Not all guilds are a dozen+ people, nor do they desire to be necessarily. (I have actually grown my guild up to roughly 30 people twice previously, but that’s beside the point).

Its not even about asking for help, though. It’s about setting the precedent as to what a “guild” is or is not. If anet sets this arbitrary number at 10 or 15, then what is Destiny’s Edge? The lore has set forth that with just 5 people, they are a guild. Where, if they do put forth 10+ is required, Anet is blatantly stating that you are not a guild until you are at least that big. That screws the lore. It screws the small guilds, some of which are loyal followers that transitioned their guilds from GW1 to GW2.

They never said that though, what they’ve said does imply an attitude that most guild hall activities are for larger guilds, but they’re not saying your 6-person guild isn’t a guild.

Don’t borrow offense, this is a limitation on gameplay and a realization that most of their functionality doesn’t matter to smaller guilds.

If you’re willing to scuttle a 10 year old (almost) build because you’re piqued over a perceived conceptualization of guilds that you don’t like, you can’t really love the guild that much.

the problem is that it’s a very bad idea to announce htings before you’re absolutely sure. Having to change an announced plan is seriously bad mojo.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

thomdane.3670:

From Colin Johanson:
Lord.4270:
Hi,
We are a guild of 3 guys . We love WWW.
With Guild halls , we will have to do guild missions.
So why we have to do puzzle jump and things like this , when in this game we just love killing people on the battlefield !
Why can t we play as we want .. ??

ColinJohanson:
HoT will include a solution for this for both guilds that are WvW, and PvP oriented that want to build and expand their Guild Halls and need the favor generated by guild missions. Same goes for guilds that have a mix of players interested in all three. More info down the road a bit on how this will work once we’ve got it a little more solid on our end.
Edited to add: Everyone will have to do the actual mission to capture the guild hall once per hall though no matter what. If your group online is too small, you’ll need to invite friends (or pay/beg/sing-songs-to-woo peeps in Lion’s Arch!) to come with you and help you claim the guild hall to own one. Or you could always grow your guild

In other words

“If you aren’t at least 15 people, you aren’t a guild”

RIP – SSW
Founded June 1st 2006

Is asking for help so terrible?

Nicktion.8910:

Red Queen.7915:

Seeing as all pre-purchased versions now get an extra character slot, as long as they are registered before July 31, you will get the slot if you buy from a retail parter. IF that retail partner offers pre-purchase, make sure that’s what you’re buying.

July 31? Why July 31? I thought it was just before the release of HOT. Was a release date announced that I don’t know about?!?

Probably because they know the ‘prepurchase 1 day before release’ trick ><

ozmaniandevil.6805:

Astralporing.1957:

Miku.6297:

Gaile, so what happens to the people that pre ordered the more expensive additions because they wanted ONE character slot for the expansion?

Nothing, because there are no such people. Noone orders an edition worth $25 more just to get something they can easily buy for $10.

Have to agree with you. You could have just as easily bought the $50 copy and paid $10 extra for the slot if that’s really all you wanted it for. But you obviously wanted the shinies too. And you got all that.

The interesting case is the +$50 version which gave $50 in gems and a slot worth $10.

If the bonus deals still say ‘+ a slot’ I’m going to guess that you get 1 for preorder and another for the bonus $$$.

Ayrilana.1396:

Well the way people see it is that they’re going to buy the expansion anyway. Those that are hesitating because of what appears to be a lack of content in their minds; what are you going to do? Not buy the expansion and be left to play the base game until the next expansion? Quit the game entirely?

most will buy it when it comes out, but not preorder. At least, that’s the way these things normally go.

TheDaiBish.9735:

nexxe.7081:

It’s pretty safe to say there won’t be a lot of events in Verdant Brink. From what i played in beta, even Orr had twice as many.

“Why make a comparison when we don’t have the information we need to compare yet?”

The other argument could be, “Why prepurchase if we don’t have all of the information yet?”.

Did you have access to all of Verdant Brink in the beta, including the three biomes? I thought a lot of it was blocked off.

They’re probably increase the area you have access to as the beta goes on, that’s how they usually do these things.

littlebabyprincess.9786:

Ricky.4706:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Ricky.4706:

@aiden nah, we are beyond that. There IS no choice to get the core game alone.

There is no fantastic deal when you have no choice. that’s pretty simple to understand.

I have a choice… I don’t need to buy the core game again I already have it.

what core game, can you show me a link to buy this core game without the expansion ?

there is no 2nd program, there is no buy 1 get one free deal, because there is only one game. Hot. guildwars 2 has been replaced by hot.

You can’t get 1 free if there is only 1 game. My mom and dad says no. They told me that the greedy companies we cannot support.

I like you baby princess, but good luck with that not supporting any companies ever ><

Manasa Devi.7958:

The only reason this has escalated is the preponderance of posters who think they can argue with opinion and are doing so in the same or worse tone than the people posting critically.

That’s… lol no. There’s a huge difference of attitude here.

Maybe it’s not hugely productive to respond in annoyance, but the false equivalence is in fact false.

Straylight.7529:

Also keep in mind that there are some veterans who still have character slots left. Or don’t mind deleting an old character.

or have bought slots in the past and are willing again or even have decided that $60 worth of ingame stuff (4000 gems + slot) is worth paying an extra $50 on a preorder.

If you’ve got cash and buy gems with $$$ anyways, that last one is actually a pretty good deal :p

Manasa Devi.7958:

The entitlement issue should be turned on its head.

ANet is not entitled to my money until they offer something I find agreeable.

Then don’t pay.

The trick is, if you say “It’s not fair!” or “Arenanet owes us this!” or any of the other variations on the complaint, expect some blowback.

Again, it’s about tone and attitude. People don’t care about you not buying if that’s what you think right, but the overwhelming tone, even in the thread titles, is simply not how adults act.

~~~

I think a lot of the inter-player conflict in this goes along this.

1) A few really loud voices go crazy and throw out this over-the-top spoiled language.
2) Lots of people who don’t like the cost, are annoyed by needing to clear or buy a slot, etc. get onboard digging that sweet outrage high.
3) Another group reacts to that first group the way you feel when you see a particularly spoiled child nagging their mother at the grocery store.
4) The people who aren’t so strident (or didn’t start that way) are both insulted by the implication they’re being bratty children and double down due to the opposition effect, coming closer to the actual bratty children squalling up in point 1.

~~~~

In short, people aren’t saying you can’t complain, people aren’t saying you have to buy (let alone preorder), people aren’t even saying that arenanet is doing a totally smart thing with this marketing.

What they are saying is “Wow some of these people are like a spoiled 6 year old who’s learned that if he yells at his mom enough she’ll give in and buy him that toy. Man I hate seeing that.”

CDUB.1645:

I think most would not complain if the $50 package included a free character slot for those that already have the core game. If you remember back to the announcement of HoT, they had GW2 for sale and people bought the core game up….. They should have had HoT w/ a free character slot. Any other game I have played ( F2P or P2P) would have given this.

Yes, if people were given more, there would be fewer complaints. There would still be some, of courrse, along a sliding scale.

Also “Would have” is a magical term that means nothing. You don’t know what they “Would Have” done in the same situation because they’re not in it, and you work for neither Anet nor any of those unspecified competitors.

It comes down to this: Complaints are what you get when someone wants something they’re not getting. They don’t have inherent value or meaning beyond this.

echo.2053:

Windsagio.1340:

echo.2053:

Windsagio.1340:

Sena.2761:

Reminder: Factions and NF came with TWO slots and it just so happens those games also added two classes.

But now? 2015 ANet? They make one class and give 0 slots. This just perfectly frames ANet in my eyes as having lost any heart and integrity they once had.

Do we get tired of going in circles with this? They were stand alone games that were compatible with Prophecies. If they had come with no character slots they’d be unplayable.

I do wonder at the time if the question was, “Prophecies came with 4 slots, but factions only comes with 2!”

Every account has 2 complimentary character slots. Each of the three campaigns adds 2 slots to the account.

failing to do simple research when you haven’t played the previous game makes it trolly.

Ironically those expansions were stand alone expansions at a value of a stand alone game, here we have a few maps plus rebuying the core at a standalone price.

You missed the point entirely in your desire for pedantry.

Nightfall and Factions had to come with character slots because they were standalone products. It’s an invalid comparison based on an essential lack of understanding of the GW1 business model.

Not to mention not understanding that the GW1 business model and the GW2 business model are massively different, so that’s at least 2 reasons it’s an invalid comparison.

so why did you bring up a gw1 point, or was it to point out your one miscalculation?

Eotn expansion from GW1 was NOT a standalone expansion( meaning you could not play it unless you had a proph, fact, or nightfall account) for $35 on release

If you you already owned one of those campaigns you could buy the expansion without the need to buy another campaign (OMG)

Ok now list your white knight defense on why they couldn’t do a setup like this 8 years later annndd…. go

Someone else brought up the GW point, I was if anything being irritable that he kept bringing it up without understanding the issue.

That being said, you’re right about EOTN, but I didn’t mention that one, did I :p I think the person complaining used factions as an example… a bad example.

I know reading up is a pain, but c’mon, try to track contesxt here :p

Ricky.4706:

to make your argument stand, you have to show me an un-expanded version of guildwars 2 on their site that i can purchase.

It doesn’t exist, just like your ‘entitlement’ argument.

To put it another way, if it’s not “fairness” (which is inherently an entitlement argument), what is the reason so many people are upset?

echo.2053:

Windsagio.1340:

Sena.2761:

Reminder: Factions and NF came with TWO slots and it just so happens those games also added two classes.

But now? 2015 ANet? They make one class and give 0 slots. This just perfectly frames ANet in my eyes as having lost any heart and integrity they once had.

Do we get tired of going in circles with this? They were stand alone games that were compatible with Prophecies. If they had come with no character slots they’d be unplayable.

I do wonder at the time if the question was, “Prophecies came with 4 slots, but factions only comes with 2!”

Every account has 2 complimentary character slots. Each of the three campaigns adds 2 slots to the account.

failing to do simple research when you haven’t played the previous game makes it trolly.

Ironically those expansions were stand alone expansions at a value of a stand alone game, here we have a few maps plus rebuying the core at a standalone price.

You missed the point entirely in your desire for pedantry.

Nightfall and Factions had to come with character slots because they were standalone products. It’s an invalid comparison based on an essential lack of understanding of the GW1 business model.

Not to mention not understanding that the GW1 business model and the GW2 business model are massively different, so that’s at least 2 reasons it’s an invalid comparison.

Sena.2761:

Reminder: Factions and NF came with TWO slots and it just so happens those games also added two classes.

But now? 2015 ANet? They make one class and give 0 slots. This just perfectly frames ANet in my eyes as having lost any heart and integrity they once had.

Do we get tired of going in circles with this? They were stand alone games that were compatible with Prophecies. If they had come with no character slots they’d be unplayable.

I do wonder at the time if the question was, “Prophecies came with 4 slots, but factions only comes with 2!”

Problem is it’s not just “People want more value”, of course people do.

It’s: (general examples)

“It’s not fair that we’re not getting what new people want”
or

“Arenanet is cheating us by not giving an extra character slot”

People can ask for more stuff, this is about justification and especially about tone.

~~~

I guess that’s not entirely shocking though, if someone framed it as “I wish Anet would give me a free character slot”, the response is likely to something along of the lines of “Yeah, and I wish somebody’s give me a Maserati”.

That’s also directly to the point though. This is about what people want but they’re not getting. Everything else is window-dressing

Ephemiel.5694:

I love how Jongi is telling people to drop it when he STILL hasn’t provided proof that everyone is being entitled and just want something for free. Sad.

There is no ‘proof’, we can’t read peoples minds.

There’s pattern recognition though – along with a natural tendency to self-justify.

People like the OP (and I) see attitudes we remember little kids having, and not particularly pleasant little kids.

It’s totally naturally that people who are upset over the prepurchase are going to severely dislike and really not be willing to accept that observation. We’re just not wired that way.

TurtleofPower.5641:

briggah.7910:

Channel.9402:

It’ll be a joke of the industry if this pre purchase cos them a huge loss of playerbase^^

Won’t be much a joke when the player base rises from all the new players that received a free copy of the core game ^^

They can’t access the new content till 80. Half of new accounts sold probably don’t even achieve that. Some success story.

As for what Anet is doing… let’s be honest they’re counting sales by the day and seeing if they can make this ugly plan work without changing anything.

aah the magic of making up numbers!

And what, they’re seeing if a promotion was successful and if their market research was right about setting a price point? What a shocking plot!

PC gamer knows who buys their subscriptions.

You picked your quote badly tho’, papry. Nothing in this discussion is what you need, it’s what you want.

You can’t always get what you want
-Mick Jagger

“Life isn’t fair, it’s just fairer than death, that’s all.”
— William Goldman

Because the issues aren’t legitmiage?

Just spitballin’ here

Mallis.4295:

Windsagio.1340:

The joke to me is all these people that are filled with utter agony that someone gets a gift and they don’t.

Everyone gets it, they just take it away if you already have it.

It says it comes with the core game on the purchase page.w
When you register a serial key there’s a list of things it includes. One of those is the core game. Then it says you won’t get it because you have it.

That’s some pretty twisted logic.

It’s crazier because people that don’t have maxxed slots don’t have much in the way of a practical use for another key anyways. All the outrage that’s not pure greed (they should charge less! They should give a free character slot!) is entirely conceptual.

The joke to me is all these people that are filled with utter agony that someone gets a gift and they don’t.

I honestly can’t tell who’s joking any more.

“A moral Duty?”

really?

I think terra’s riffing on the absurd demands, though.

If they’re serious…. lol.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

Windsagio.1340:

easiest way to resolve this is for Anet to give each player 8000 gems in order to make up for the profound insult.

After that, if we forgive them, they should offer the expansion for $20. If we refuse to forgive them, they need to offer it for free.

It’s the best way!

Could you imagine the impact on the game’s economy if every player is simultaneously being given 8000 gems? Or any of the absurd number of gems that these threads keep suggesting.

BUT IT’S ONLY FAIR!

easiest way to resolve this is for Anet to give each player 8000 gems in order to make up for the profound insult.

After that, if we forgive them, they should offer the expansion for $20. If we refuse to forgive them, they need to offer it for free.

It’s the best way!

Defending the price: Because it’s close to the market standard (per WoW) and it’s what their analysts the market will bear.

About the other stuff,

“Life isn’t fair, it’s just fairer than death, that’s all.”
— William Goldman, The Princess Bride

the concept of ‘youtube journalists’ makes me feel terribly, terribly old.

Nuzt.7894:

You’re entitled to your opinion just as other’s are entitled to theirs. Don’t like to read their opinion’s ? Don’t click the link.

One could say, using caps in a game forum to get your point across would embarrass a toddler, but hey that’s just my opinion right ?

How else am I supposed to represent the overwrought hollering?

no, really it’s not.

People are very good at self-justifying selfish motives, and this is a prime case.

“ITS NOT FAIR THAT NEW PLAYERS GET THE ORIGINAL GAME FOR FREE!”

“ITS NOT FAIR THAT I HAVE TO BUY A CHARACTER SLOT TO PLAY THE NEW CLASS!”

The attitude would embarass a toddler.

I kind of started the day outrage surfing, essentially laughing at all the kitten kids going crazy with their overwrought sense of entitlement.

Now though, now it’s just kind if dirty. Is this really how the world works now, where people riot over someone else getting a gift or over not being given enough gifts themselves?

I am only sad.

Quarktastic.1027:

serenity.4712:

Morfedel.4165:

Seriously folks.

If you aren’t happy, don’t buy it. If you are happy, buy it. If ANET sees not enough sales going through, they will revise or reduce price or some such. If sales are solid, they won’t.

Not happy at the moment and not interested into buying it. The price is not the issue, it’s the bonus new players get and the veterans don’t. I’ve been playing this game since the launch and I’m pretty sure Anet will come with a solution (atleast I hope). It’s a fact that things cannot stay the way they are at the moment. If that’s the case, I will end up leaving with the rest of, I don’t know, 15,000 people which is A LOT and every normal company would not want to lose that.

I would say that being able to play the game for the past 3 years is your bonus, but then I’d get called a white knight etc.

The fact that the expansion includes the core game is just a hook to entice new people into buying the game. Adding the core game to the expansion costs Anet virtually nothing. It’s likely the expansion price would still be $50 even if the core game wasn’t included.

Not just likely, it’s been explicitly stated so.

(Rhetorical:) Is it really so bad that other people get something nice?

Arioso.8519:

Windsagio.1340:

The trick is that Anet will know your eventual vote.

People will buy anyways, people always buy anyways.

All the noise and maneuvering will result in nothing — like always.

In that case:

HoT will always go on sale eventually anyways.

All the firmness and stubborness will result in nothing, they WILL discount the expansion when sales die down, like always.

So when we buy the game eventually anyways, “like always” it will be for a reasonable price.

Well I don’t want to push people too hard, but it’s a pretty established pattern, yeah? Lots of talk about how any new thign or DLC is bad or too expensive and how people aren’t going to buy it… and then sales are just fine.

The trick is that Anet will know your eventual vote.

People will buy anyways, people always buy anyways.

All the noise and maneuvering will result in nothing — like always.

papry.8096:

Windsagio.1340:

It’s just gamer entitlement with a nice thick gravy of greed poured over.

So it’s greed to be asking to be treated fairly like the new customer are ?
Then sure I’m the most greedy man ever.

Yes, because it’s not really ‘fairness’.

The entire ‘discussion’ boils down to “I want to pay less”. The rest if framing.

It’s just gamer entitlement with a nice thick gravy of greed poured over.

ForeverAway.5948:

Windsagio.1340:

ForeverAway.5948:

Dungeon forum? Cynical?

Now, why might that be? :-P

I honestly don’t know, I can’t think of any good reasons :P

Can’t tell if serious….‘honestly’ and ‘:P’ together are short circuiting my kappa detector.

If you’re being serious, now may be a great time to review the infamous ‘History of GW2 Dungeons’ post, wherein rfdarko kittening nails it. Just replace the references to “the last 9 months” to “the last year and a half” for the updated version.

Forgive my emote addiction, it’s a problem and I’m getting help. (or so I say :p)

I don’t think there really are legitimate complaints, but you know how it is, you can’t just say “Well the problem is that gamers are entitled and only think of themselves, and often lack foresight.” It’s a little corrosive to the discourse.

Honestly the clearing thing will likely be 5man-able. The other stuff is still a ? Depends on how deep a feature it is.

ForeverAway.5948:

Dungeon forum? Cynical?

Now, why might that be? :-P

I honestly don’t know, I can’t think of any good reasons :P