Guild Wars 2

Ursan.7846:

That’s interesting. The link I posted doesn’t actually lead to the page for the skin itself.

http://argos-soft.net/GW2ArmorGallery/index.php?
Try this? Regardless, the top is the PvP student. Try previewing it in the Mists. weight=1&race=2&color=10&sex=1&armorSet=tudentfi

I’ll do that tonight, thanks

Anyway, I sure hope they will add more armor skins in the game. I also hope they are sober and down to earth, not lightning and particles effects flying out everywhere like in some other games.

Mirta.5029:

I actually read the thing
“Mostly from character creation to show the amount of censoring that is going on.”
they’re replacing the models that are in game right now in order for the models to show less skin and in order to censor them.

I know what the reddit post is about. I’m not asking for the same changes; I’m asking for any new armor skins and clothing to be made available here as well. You replied to me asking why I want them to censor the game in NA.

Ursan.7846:

The “new” armor skins/styles already exist in game.

For example, the human ele in that thread:
Original: http://i.imgur.com/dMZZxez.jpg
Wearing Human T3 skin

Chinese: http://i.imgur.com/HXbTIxY.jpg
Same boots/shoulders, but wearing this coat:
http://argos-soft.net/GW2ArmorGallery/index.php?weight=1&race=2&color=10&sex=1&armorSet=tudentfi

Awesome, I need to look into it more!

Edit: Either I need my eyes adjusted, but I don’t see the coat she’s wearing anywhere on the site you linked.. nor do I see the pants >_>

/crossesfingers that anet actually creates more armor skins

Mirta.5029:

so you want them to censor outfits in USA as well? They’re replacing outfits to be less nude in order to censor the game for Chinese audience. Why would you want that?

How did you read replace when I wrote “be available”.

I just read over on reddit about a new GW2 beta for the Chinese audience and some of the different changes made to the game for that region.

I can’t help but ask, will the new armor skins / styles also be available in North America? I’d love to see more oriental and middle eastern styled clothing and armor.

The reddit post is here: http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1cm765/leaked_images_of_chinese_gw2_beta/

If the beta is a hoax then kindly disregard this post

Probably get banned automatically when the money transfer is detected. So please, don’t send me any gold at all

ZudetGambeous.9573:

It happens more often then you’d think. I seem to ALWAYS level up during dagger storm, it is annoying to have your elite skill interrupted 50+ times.

More often than not I level after an event or while gathering. It would suck loosing dagger storm to a level.. especially if dagger storm was the only thing keeping an enemy zerg from killing me during a retreat >_>

timmyf.1490:

Wor Machien.9657:

TC has the same requests on mapchat. Just ignore them. No need to be a smartypants about it.

But I play an Asura.

This is, by all means, the best response I’ve seen so far on this forum. I need to roll an Asura too and troll map chat like a pro!

Daywolf.2630:

It stops my attack, that’s really annoying.

You annoy easy considering how “often” it happens >_>

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

I think if you talk to anyone from any MMO, you’ll find out there are more casuals than hard core. For a lot of people, it’s a big big problem. That’s why raids in most games keep getting dumbed down till people actually bother doing them.

Again, you have little proof of this.

I always looked at it that MMO’s usually require a pretty good PC. Something built for gaming. I don’t think many casual players want to spend the money for a gaming PC. Most are content to buy $300 consoles or tablets.

I could be wrong, but it seems like a safer argument than “go talk to people in MMO’s and you’ll see I’m right.”

Crysis requires a pretty good PC but most MMOs don’t. GW2 needs a heftier pc than the norm but its not a graphics issue… its an optimization issue. Heck it runs fine on my 4 year old system on high detail.

As for what Vayne is describing, you can lookup what Ghostcrawler, the main dev for World of Warcraft, had to say. I’ll give you a little snippet from an article about raid difficulty:

The other interesting note he makes is that they don’t want to spend several months of development time on content that less than 5% of players will ever see. One can connect their statements that they “won’t ever make an instance as hard as Sunwell again” and then this statement together and form the conclusion that only 5% of players saw Sunwell.

As for hardcore and casual. Vayne is using a very different definition than you; the one used on most MMO forums. Seeing as you haven’t played any other MMO (except GW1 and 2, which don’t count) I can see why you don’t understand what he’s saying.

As for Dailys.. they help daily concurrency which isn’t a bad thing

clay.7849:

See Xia, you can make good jokes without resorting to the low blows you typically go for. That one actually made me laugh out loud. Good night princess.

So you didn’t like my Lord of the Rings spiel? I’m disappointing now.

Ugh, too tired.. gonna drop now.

Heijincks.9267:

To be fair, anybody could just grab a telephone book and give someone a number from it.

Worse case my call would be conceived as a prank call, I’m up for it any time!

clay.7849:

So, keep getting upset about it. Keep telling me that I’m crazy. I don’t care, but the only reason you keep posting is because clearly you do. You can say I amuse you all you want, but your posts are usually nothing but really bad attempts to put me down rather than anything constructive. That is the sign that you care.

Actually you’re the one who took us off topic, yet again. I’ll admit one thing though, the reason I’m posting isn’t because you’re views have any weight to them. Its more because you’re condescending, overly emotional and unbelievably biased and I just love poking fanboys with a stick. I know its not very nice, sorry about that. I just can’t help it in your case.

The fact you actually had to lie about your profession to help “prove your point” was pure gold. Anyway, if you insist on going into tangents and off topic posts with me, lets take this over to personal messages.

If you insist on posting here, at least answer my questions or comment on my views of dungeon token DR, why it was invent, how it affects the game play and the economy.

Khyber.2693:

Now I cant make it to my last personal story because the kittening zombie crap has too much cc. Like wtf, horrible zone.

You know they nerfed Orr right.. it was soo.. sooo… sooo much worse before. Mobs would always use a pull and a snare on you. always

Now its less annoying. Still annoying but less annoying.

Burnfall.9573:

Xia, yes Ranger; not playing obviously not.

Oh hell.. Yeah, obviously. They need to get on that quickly imho

clay.7849:

I’m not uptight at all. I could care less what the fanboys think. I just speak from the heart.

I wish you’d speak more from the brain. Also, seems you’re more of a fanboy than most, for GW1 anyway.

clay.7849:

Also, I don’t log in for dailies, but so you deny people do? Do you deny that until recently, there were tons of people just going from boss to boss to collect gold chests?

I do that too from time to time. I also try to complete my daily every day (I log in about once per two days on average). I also have some fun in SAB then WvW. I’m not going to say “tons” of people mindlessly do only that. I’ll let you pull facts out of thin air and speak for the majority.

clay.7849:

I would be willing to bet we agree that isn’t the kind of activity that leads to long term investment in a game.

Oh, that’s right, who needs that! It is buy to play! ANet can’t lose!

Far be it for me to tell others how to play a game or why they should play it. Personally I like mixing and matching things. Some people like to grind, others like progression (collecting gear or advancing points like achievements or ranks). The legendary grind is a good example. Eh, whatever floats their boat, as long as they enjoy whatever they are doing. If they enjoy it, they will return.

I must admit, some nights after a longs day’s work I like grinding and not thinking. Just going off in Orr and killing waves of undead.. its like zombie dynasty warriors.

But I guess you’re way of gaming is more pure and * ideologically* correct or some crap right?

clay.7849:

Seriously Xia, you need to stop getting so worked up over what I say. I say it just to watch you get all flustered and put your foot in your mouth. It’s amazing how mad you get. You take the bait every time.

Actually I’m buzzed and half asleep. I told you before, you amuse me. Why would I do something I don’t enjoy in my spare time?

Rakuren Kenshou.7689:

You know what might be an exploit? Buying Orian boxes and using max karma boost while eating the karma out of it. I’ve heard some people came out with more karma than they started with (plus money). So if that’s consistant, I could see issues. Doesn’t sound consistant, so it’s likely not an issue. But if I had to pick something based on karma, that would be it.

I believe there was a red post about this not being an exploit (memory is a fickle thing). Probably because the karma boosts don’t all stack (or their is a stat ceiling).. So far I’ve been very unsuccessful at getting all my karma back.

clay.7849:

I got a good one that will get everyone uptight again.

What happens when all the people that just log in for dailies, or boss chests, or CoF runs suddenly realize that the way they are playing the game isn’t fun and decide to quit when another MMO comes out?

Lots of people out there just doing those things…

If that is how someone is playing its in their best interest to re-evaluate how they spend their time. And I’m not just talking about switching MMOs… there’s more to life than your computer.

You’re the only one uptight here clay… and if you’re only loging in for dailys may I suggest bioshock infinite?

Burnfall.9573:

Is Guild Wars 2 doing well?

Oppressing the weaker class while Enjoying their Pain?

Obviously,

No

The Joke was on us on April Fools’ Day

Which class would that be? Are you playing a Ranger by any chance?

clay.7849:

So now, I’m right? I don’t get it, I’m right when it’s ok for your argument, but not when it’s ok for mine.

Typical.

You see, I don’t disagree with everything you say. Its just your conclusions… man are they off base and biased. You take one little bit of information and extrapolate it to an extreme.

Of course its important to have a certain level of concurrent players. If there’s no one to run content with in a multi-player game you know its in trouble. But you don’t need all 3 million players on every day. You just need a comfortable level. And as long as they return to eat up new content you know the game is very healthy.

killcannon.2576:

Even with all the problems that WoW has had, least you could do dungeons and get the gear that was specific to that dungeon.

Actually before the dungeon finder tool heroic mode dungeons had a daily lockout you couldn’t circumvent. I’m not saying its right though.

clay.7849:

But I thought all that didn’t matter because once they bought the game, ANet got your money and longevity wasn’t important to the non sub model?

Still bitter about the other thread eh.. You know quite well that concurrent players helps draw in more players, or keep them at any rate. You’ve said as much before.

Daily achievements serve the same purpose.

clay.7849:

That’s right, just because other MMO’s do something badly doesn’t mean GW2 has to follow suit.

If I remember correctly (and we both know memory is subjective) this dungeon token DR fiasco was to encourage players to run multiple paths in a dungeon, instead of just one. Human nature follows the path of least resistance.

But yes, it is a band aid fix to the real problem, all paths not being equal (and some being less fun and interesting).

clay.7849:

Have you seen the profits on dungeon trinkets?

Did you mean to type token instead of trinket? Sure, but isn’t COF path 1 profitable in itself despite the tokens?

You can consult https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Apm9p4Lx84ZJdDd3YXNXRnJHcjJYZEo1VlZhdVpKbGc#gid=0 if you want to bean count every copper for yourself. I don’t care enough right now.

Now back to my sake.

killcannon.2576:

DR was incorporated into the game because of Bots, not farmers.

Until you realize they were talking about dungeon tokens. Bots run dungeons now?

Vayne.8563:

And I’m not sure how DR affects other players that aren’t farmers. I don’t think I’ve ever experienced DR playing this game.

I have, and its a gentle reminder to go do something else (either in game or out).

To the thread:
I personally don’t feel GW2 is the best game, or a great game. Its a good game though, possibly a great MMO. Its the first MMO where combat, especially solo combat, is interesting. Its like a mix of platformer (like zelda) mixed with an MMO. I love that. Its a great foundation yes, but its not a great game. Ask me again in four years and we’ll see then.

Anyway, 10% of bioshock infinite downloaded.. c’mon baby.

SneakyErvin.3056:

Well music can define you as a person, it can also connect with your moral grounds and opinions. Actually alot of music is like that.

For instance, if a band completely turned their view in the opposite direction and did it under the same name I think many people would get extremly mad.

A long time ago I would have agreed with you completely. But time passes and things change. We grow older, wiser and less passionate about things I guess. As it stands the most defining things about my life are the systems I design at work (aka my career) and my family.

Even if the music’s theme resonates well with my feeling at the time, in no way does it define me. And I wouldn’t be upset if the artist chose a different direction. Heck, I don’t really care who the artist is and what he believes in. I just like the product.

clay.7849:

@Kia
Do you understand what ANet stood for when they made GW1? It is quite different than what they have become in GW2.

First off I’m not a car manufacturer.

Now I find what you wrote disturbing. It’s like saying your favorite band stands for xyz then getting all uptight after their next album took a different creative direction. Arena Net is a company. They make games they want to play and they make games for a living. Anything else is subjective (you’re feelings) and subject to change.

clay.7849:

This is why I, and many other GW1 players do not like GW2 and feel lied to.

I play a game when its fun. I don’t play games for their perceived social status, moral grounds or other such nonsense. A game is a diversion, it doesn’t define who I am. Much like music.

clay.7849:

Also, my reasoning for this game not achieving the goals supposedly set out for it, is that it has really fallen in to the same cycle of evey other MMO that has failed to achieve those goals as well.

Yeah, are you talking about the fan bases perceived goal (wanting a wow killer or whatever) or the publishers goal (to make a return on investment).

You took this into the surreal. Seriously.

legion.7518:

It’s easy to do “well” when you charge zero monthly subscription to play the game, whereas your competitor is charging $15/month. People are going to play this game because it’s free, even if it wasn’t a good game.

If MMO players only played MMOs then what you’re saying is perfectly legit. However, how many people here only play MMOs?

I can’t speak on your behalf, or others here, but I certainly wouldn’t be playing GW2 if it wasn’t fun. I’d rather play another game, like Bioshock Infinite or the next crysis. Or I’d go out for a movie, watch TV, play billiards or any other activity really.

I don’t think anyone should play a game they don’t find fun. Heck, I don’t think anyone should do boring activities in a game just for an in-game reward either >_>

Mackdose.6504:

I’ve been on the front lines of the ANET LIES debate since release (I’m not proud of that) and generally it’s caused by unchecked expectations and poor reading comprehension.
Also, confirmation bias.

I think most arguments are caused by those things. We’re all human after all.

Kichwas.7152:

Anyone who takes that kind of marketing speech that seriously is going to have trouble functioning in the modern media-driven world…

Seems to me marketing has been the same since the 1980’s.. Its some serious koolaid if you know what I mean.

I don’t feel the marketing for GW2 was dishonest, I also don’t feel it exaggerated too much either. It was especially honest once they lifted the NDA on the beta.. the internet was flooded with information and first impressions. That’s when I bought (pre-bough) a copy. I knew full well it wasn’t going to be a raiding game, or something like the other MMOs I played. Being able to play some weekends before release was a bonus.

So yeah, I’m not sure how someone can claim they were lied to (extreme case) or mislead.

clay.7849:

@Xia
So, you think that a game without a subscription model can’t die? What would you count as a metric that would mean this game is dying or not?

I never said it can’t die, I’m saying the metrics to measure it are quite different that what you’re expecting. But to answer your question it would be concurrency numbers after major content releases and sales numbers for expansions.

Don’t forget that even subscription model MMOs have considerable concurrent user drops between content updates. People get tired of the same content / raids, they acquired all the gear on the treadmill and they put the game on the back burner. You know the game is healthy when they return for the next content update. Most don’t cancel their subscription while waiting, either due to laziness (my reason in the past) or because they are paying 6 months at a time.

I’d also like to point out that GW2 exceeded Arena Nets sales expectations. Heck they even closed the online store for a while (to upgrade server capacity). Since launch they also added a few more server choices.

I know you’re disappointed in GW2 clay and its clouding your judgement. Its one reason why I hate discussing anything with you. Now I’ll point out some of that for you.

clay.7849:

Here is my definition of failed: not reaching the lofty sales goals that everyone keeps saying AAA MMO’s aspire to. <snip> But, the game certainly failed. <snip> If GW2 doesn’t surpass the same kinds of sales figures as GW1, then it hasn’t done what everyone said it was set out to do. They could have had healthy growth from GW1 to GW2 if the games were more alike than different just marketing to their previous customers.

Did GW1 sell over three million copies? If so, why did GW2 sales outpace what Arena Net expected?

clay.7849:

My biggest problem with the manifesto is that they said that people who loved GW1 will love GW2.

Surely as a “marketing director” you didn’t take that as a promise did you? I believe this is the main point of all your posts; you miss playing a healer (monk) in your old guild. “The good old days” mentality. Sorry you’re disappointed but you’ll have to look past your feeling to see the big picture as they say.

What do I see? I see a solid base of an MMO like game. I see Arena Net trying to implement the illusion of a gear treadmill and progression for those who like that sort of thing. They also made all the content accessible; you don’t need to reach max level to enjoy the game. They made the game-play fun, I love the combat its great.

They do have things to fix however. Culling in PvE is horrible. Profession balance is needed especially for rangers (feels bland) and engineers (lacks synergy). They also have a fair share of bugs to fix too. The personal story also could use some love and an extension in the future. And of course, they need more content. I would also love to see more difficult group content added.

So no, GW2 isn’t perfect. Its a good starting point though and has a lot of potential for the future. Because of that, I believe it’s first expansion will sell quite well. Well enough at least for the game to be successful.

Success isn’t measured by dominating market share. Success is profitability and returning customers. Look at GW2 more like a franchise or a brand name. If people feel their purchases in your brand were good, they will keep buying from your brand.

One thing that strikes me as odd about everyone here talking about the game dying. Most of the arguments are under the mindset of a subscription based MMO.

If you view GW2 more like a traditional game, say Battlefield 3, what happens then? You want a certain level of concurrent players to keep the matches interesting. You also want word of mouth to bring in new players. You want to please players from the previous iteration of your game, but you also want to draw in players from other franchises (cough CoD). People buy your game and they play for a time and then they put it on the shelf and move on. Does that mean your game is dying?

What happens when you release a content patch? You draw back players who put your game on the shelf for a while. They try the new features, have fun with it and inevitably move on somewhere else.

What happens when you release an expansion pack? Much the same as with a content patch except now there’s a financial cost involved (obstacle) but you have much more features and content (incentive). If players felt their initial investment was well spent they will be inclined to buy your expansion. How many here feel they didn’t get their 60$ worth yet?

Now back to guild wars 2. There isn’t really a gear treadmill or progression. I know some will argue that point but in all honesty do you really need ascended gear to run the content (other than fractals)? Is content really balanced around gear tiers? Not that I can tell. So that makes GW2 much like other online games like BF3. There is no “mountain of work” waiting for returning players. No grinding dungeons to catch up on the gear treadmill. There is no real obstacle for returning players like in other MMOs. As such the loss of concurrent players isn’t necessarily a forecast for future sales (aka expansions).

The gem store is also a source of income. Players with less time to devote to GW2 can buy boosts or skins to keep up with their friends. Players more devoted to the game can buy fun toys and now boosts for their guilds / friends (bonfires). Collecters have pets and town clothes and there’s even gambling (which I know isn’t popular as most rng isn’t).

Under this perspective, how is the game “dying”?

xarallei.4279:

LOL. That article is great. And too true. I’ve seen it countless times. If you go by the forums most games would be dead and horrible failures. It simply does not give an accurate picture. I’d say you’d need some sort of in-game survey type thing if you were going for more accuracy given that most players don’t visit forums.

Or simple metrics like how many unique players participate in activity X per week, or what bosses are killed the most and how quickly, or which chest is looted the most per week. The problem with a survey is that the answers depend on the players mood as he’s answering while the metrics measure his play pattern over a week or longer period.

Concurrent unique players per week is also a useful metric, one arena net mentioned not to long ago.

clay.7849:

Man, I really get you upset don’t I?

Nah, your posts amuse me. Reminds me of my old high school days where kids would talk about all sorts of things they never understood and pretended they knew everything. You really remind me of my nephew.

So, predictions on expansion? If you’re going to go on a tirade meithers well go all the way and add predictions on failure time (you did that, xmas 2013) and expansions.

clay.7849:

Show me where I generalized the entire playerbase please?

Still arguing with the world? Just re-read most of your posts for the answer.

Do you have another doomsday theory for us today? Predictions on the next expansions timing and sales outlook perhaps?

Villious.8530:

Everything here is just conjecture. If I analyze MY hard facts, I know about 18 real life people that played GW2. Out of those 18, two still play because the rest didn’t like the direction the game was going.

My hard facts, out of the 7 from WoW that came over with me, only I and another remain. Yet my RL friends and family are still playing, although not daily but people have lives.

What’s my interpretation? Yes, the lack of vertical progression and structures group content (aka raids) turned my raiding friends off.. surprise surprise. You’re point was? That not everyone who plays MMOs will love GW2? Sure, obviously.

I’m not saying the game is perfect, not by a long shot. Its missing quite a bit of content and features. But they’ll come in time.

(I noticed that you and what’s his name write with the same syntax and vocabulary. Do you have two account by chance?)

clay.7849:

You can keep believing what you want, but feel free to take a look at this:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/riverside-inn-f2p916.html?pp=20&sort=lastpost&order=desc&daysprune=-1

This was as official of a forum for GW1 as any. I linked to 6 months after GW1’s release. Personally, I don’t find the majority of the threads nearly as negative as they are now.

GW1 was a fringe game, much like FFXI. As such it has a smaller more stable community and for some reason smaller communities tend to have a more positive and polite vibe (in forums and in game). GW2 launched as an AAA MMO and attracted all sorts from many different games, like WoW. What were the latest figures? 3 Million? That’s a lot of people. The vocal minority is a lot larger and they post more.

I only read this forum to see what litany of complaints the vocals have for the week. If you read the guild wars 2 subreddit you’ll find far less negativity (and far less complaint threads begging for changes). I’m more active there than here.

You assumed a lot about me while reading my posts. I could tell by the tangent responses you insist on giving. I’m neither for the implementation of raids, mounts, gear treadmills, etc, nor am I against it. Of course you assumed I’m some GW2 fanatic that resists “evil changes” or whatever. Honestly I don’t care. I read most of your posts imagining a squeaky voice form a dark basement. It fit well.

Its not our game. Its arena nets game. I want to see where there artistic expression, and unique take on an MMO, will take Guild Wars 2 in the coming months and years.

I also think your predictions for winter 2013 are utter crap. But time will tell, that is certain.

clay.7849:

But, anyways, you agree that forums are a good way to gather useful information about a game, but if the majority of forums are negative, that doesn’t reflect on the success of the game?

Fascinating. Please tell me how that logic works again…

Because people only post when they aren’t playing; usually when they aren’t happy about something. That’s a good indicator that you made a personal relations snafu (ascended gear). Happy players generally aren’t posting (and some don’t even know the forum exists, or care it does). That being said the general tone of the forums will always be negative.

I truly wonder.. if Arena Net rand a script that would count each unique poster and compare it to each unique player.. would it even hit 1%?

(I’m too lazy to search for it, but Arena Net already posted a similar spiel to what I wrote. You aren’t worth the effort of me searching for it).

Anyway, I’m off to rest. Keep up your crusade of … whatever the hell makes you tick.

clay.7849:

When did I say anything about employees? Clearly, you don’t feel that understanding by people stop playing the game is important. I believe that speaks for itself as to why you don’t really have a good grip on anything to do with business or marketing.

Here again you’re putting words in my mouth. I said the forums aren’t a good metric for the game’s success. I never said it wasn’t a source of useful information for a developer. I guess its easier for you to argue when you twist everything you read.

clay.7849:

I am actually the marketing director for multiple divisions of a company, so I think I know a little bit about these things…

Sure you are. Sure. lol

clay.7849:

I think everyone that is posting cares enough about what happened to this game to care enough to post on this forum – and that they bought and experienced the game.

But they are not the majority nor can they speak for it. That’s why a game’s forum isn’t a proper metric for its success. (However if I follow your logic, WoW would have failed during burning crusade.)

clay.7849:

I’m sorry, but is it ludicrous to think that someone who purchased the game and quit’s opinion is less valid than someone who is still playing? If anything, as a business owner, I would want to know why someone quit.

You are saying this, not me. Its easier putting words in people’s mouths isn’t it?

clay.7849:

I would be willing to bet that your position in the world doesn’t make you think about things that way. Unfortunately, when you get higher up in the ranks of corporate America, you find out that is one of the questions everyone is asking.

Trust me, I don’t use my employee’s Facebook posts as a metric for their job performance.

You use a lot of words. Perhaps thinking before posting is in order?

clay.7849:

Proof? It’s funny how the majority of people on a forum about a game don’t represent the majority. That is so logical.

Only if you believe that everyone who is playing is also posting; which is ludicrous at best.

Was.. that your belief?

Vayne.8563:

You do get opinionated responses, but that doesn’t prove anything since it’s the people who don’t respond you need to count there. The people who are arguing about it are obviously very strong in their views. But how many people just don’t care or think about it even. I’d wager most.

Most people don’t think deeply about their gaming experience, nor do they post on forums. I’d wager there are more people playing Guild Wars 2 right now who have never heard the term vertical progression than those who have.

Quite true.

The vast majority of MMO players don’t wade through the forums. Its always a very vocal community, or those who want to argue for arguing sake (and some being overtly rude and condescending while doing it) that frequent the forums. I doubt very much they represent “the community”.

In fact, it was always a minority of mmo players that would actually do any “end game content” like raids. Ask Blizzard, their internal data proved it and birthed the raid finder system (and the massive raid nerf to make them accessible).

As such, the tone or impressions you get from an MMO forum hardly qualify as “proof” of its success. Heck, its not even a valid metric.

On a side note, I’m surprised you’re all here arguing with him. People only understand or listen when they want to listen.

Khal Drogo.9631:

I wonder SAB or the 30% discount is the thing that really spiked sales.

30% discount no doubt. SAB is a fun surprise, but anyone seriously into retro gaming can get an emulator for free >_>

Doomdesire.9365:

As good as a once pay game can hope to achieve. Gw2 is still lively, but only in lions arch and WvW(with the occasional dragon). Go to divinity’s reach, black citadel, the grove, it’s abandoned and depressing. The game is still strong, but we need a real expansion, and soon.

Unfortunately there’s nothing to do in divinity’s reach or the other capital cities. Lions arch has the fractals and all the gates (and is easily reached via the mists, wvw or spvp making it the best hub).

Unfortunately (and fortunately) there is no login queue mechanic to give us a clear indication of concurrent users on a busy night.

Geotherma.2395:

I can agree with the thought of games such as FFXI in mind. This is a game I used to love, it got a bit old however (for me) and I moved on. However it still holds many subs and just released yet another expansion. (8? 11?) Free to play games like Aion also hold both players who play often or don’t play often, both of which flood the cash store for “fun” things. However that game also offers advantages which by most peoples definition would be for hardcore gamers. But casual gamers use them as well. And that game is still around as well.

With Guild Wars 2 you buy and get what you pay for. You can at any time try other MMO’s, be 100% loyal to this, or leave and come back any time. Any type of player can put money into the pockets of the company. It matters more how cash shop items are sold, what is available, and the want and desire for them. And that applies to no single group. That applies to us all. I would simply say look at the fused weapon skins, to say only casual or hardcore players bought those chests based on their gameplay/style would just be silly.

Totally agree. In fact, you helped make my point. Also I’d like to point out it wasn’t I who brought the term hardcore or casual into conversation.

I think the best virtue of guild wars 2 is the ability to leave for a few months and return without having to grind to “catch up” to other players. The lack of effective gear treadmill is liberating. Even though some can argue that ascended gear began a treadmill none of the content appears balanced around gear (except for agony resistance, which is acquired where its used anyway).

I believe that if Arena Net wasn’t doing well financially, we’d see more gear and skins in the cash shop with talk of an expansion. Instead we are greeted with free content (the living story) and fun holiday events (Halloween, Christina and now this April Fools day game).

I don’t believe GW2 needs any of this:

… most hardcore gamers find this game to not include enough of what they want (gear treadmill, mounts, open world PvP, raids, etc.) Therefore, as more games become available that fill their desired niche they will leave.

Nor does it need the term hardcore pasted all over its forums.

Geotherma.2395:

I farm Orr and other events, as per my guild I’m a hardcore gamer who plays about 10 hours a day sometimes more. At the same time I have spent around $600 between March 1 and April 1 on the game. Only 50 gems of which did I transfer to gold. So it is purely speculation that a casual gamer would spend more/less on the game based on play style..

Nice post. I’d like to put mine in context however. I’m offering a counterpoint to Clay who believes GW2 will fail because it lacks features for “hardcore” players.

I do agree with him that players looking for competitive raiding / pvp will be disappointing in GW2 and most likely stop playing. I disagree with him that it will cause gw2 to fail. I also disagree with his assessment that his “casuals” won’t bring revenue to gw2.

Relevant snippets:

Nappyychappy hit the nail on the head, IMO.
The definition of “casual player” doesn’t lend itself to the kind of dedication and “stickiness” you need to make a game like an MMO live for a long time.

Nappychappy.7046:

My honest opinion is that casual is popular now, but slowly dying out. It is most definitely a way to make money quickly, but not a way to make a game last. Game developers will eventually exhaust the consumers with must have AAA games of the month. As amazing as this game is, it also takes a huge step backwards, and the more casuals that it caters to, the more advanced players it will eventually disappoint.

clay.7849:

It may, but it may not. Your point? Casual = limited interest. How can you argue that leads to more money? Oh, that’s right, you can’t.

You are having a tantrum aren’t you? Sorry. We should end the conversation before you get more upset.

By the way, the real money in gaming is now in casual games and cash shops. Its not for nothing failed mmos go free to play. But hey, if you want to believe otherwise its your right.

clay.7849:

I used that definition to show that, by definition, casual players aren’t going to play a game for long.

If someone only plays 8 hours or less a week it doesn’t mean he’ll quit sooner than another. And even if he does, it doesn’t impact revenue (no subscription).

On the flip side, the limited play time may motivate the player to buy boosts from the gem shop with real money, thus increasing revenue.

clay.7849:

You can keep using conjecture to try and make your point, but it is still conjecture.

Also, player burnout has nothing to do with this conversation. I don’t know why you are so adamant about tell us about the evils of hardcore gameplay. Really, if you are so smart about how to sell things to people, you would know that a lot of unhealthy things sell really well. Cigarettes are a really good example. It has nothing to do with right or wrong.

The conversation is about money. What keeps servers running, MONEY. What keeps Arena Net running? MONEY. What makes money for Guild Wars 2? Box sales and the cash shop. Its pretty obvious who is more inclined to buy gold for GW2 via the cash shop; those with limited play time who don’t want to grind.

I put one little snippet about burnout and you go on a tantrum. And why are you talking about McDonald and cigarettes? And you call my post conjecture?

clay.7849:

I don’t know who is more likely to spend $50 in the cash shop? Saying that it is casual players is pure conjecture.

I made a few hundred gold playing the trading post. I’m more inclined to use that gold I acquired to buy a skin than real currency. On the other end of the spectrum, if my play time is limited would I spend it farming orr for a goodie or would I just spend a few bucks for it? Its rather obvious and the reason the cash shop exists in the first place.

clay.7849:

I also never said that one is better than the other. You seem to take offense at the thought that casual players are casual. Hardcore players, by nature, will continue to play a game, just like casual players will “login when [they] want to login.” Like you said.

So I’m offended now? Thank you for informing me.

You do understand the cash shop and box sales fund this game yes? So you’re whole spiel about the game needing devoted players to drive its profits is… dubious at best. It needs fun content to keep players loging in and wanting to buy items in the cash shop. It doesn’t need players that grind their second legendary. (Devoted players aren’t detrimental either, spelling this out here now before you take it out of content in your next reply).

clay.7849:

It is a fact that by logging in when you want to log in is not going to favorably impact a game’s longevity. Especially, if the powers that be, such as NCSoft, see that a game’s population may be dwindling due to a casual attitude towards a game. Why would they continue to fund a game like that?

You mean box sales and cash shop sales yes? Because reduced login means less operational costs….

clay.7849:

Also, your post brings up the fact that hardcare game play is unhealthy. That really has nothing to do with the conversation. McDonald’s is unhealthy and they are still in business.

Yes because “player burnout” is such a nice thing. Because having players rage in forums because the game is their life or career is a good thing. Yes, surely.

clay.7849:

I don’t think it means unskilled or idiot. I think it means not dedicated or devoted. In fact, that is what it means. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/casual

Casual players won’t show the kind of dedication or devotion to a game by the nature of the definition of casual. That has nothing to do with unskilled or idiot.

Please tell me again how my contrived definition of casual is not like the actual definition of casual?

Which player is more inclined to drop 50$ in the cash shop for an armor skin and some gold? The hardcore Orr farmer? Yeah, not really. If this game was funded on monthly sub fees and used gear treadmills and competition to keep people paying, then you’d have the potential of being correct.

From my perspective the game is designed to remove competition (no mob tagging, node sharing, etc) and offer better game-play instead. I don’t believe GW2 is meant to be the only game you play. Seriously, you can go play bioshock infinite for a few weeks and come back. You won’t loose you raid spot, you wont be behind the curve on the treadmills. You shouldn’t feel forced to play. Login when you want to login. Its.. liberating.

I’ve done the hardcore BS before in other games. You can have a server first, the gear and achievements.. but in life it means nothing. Also in game, three months later its meaningless. That kind of gaming is a disease.

April fools no doubt.

Maybe anet got sick of all the complaining and took it out? Shame.