Guild Wars 2

Cynz.9437:

Zenith.7301:

Cynz.9437:

Fun fact barely anyone played thieves in s1/2 and yet everyone ran bunkers. Do you really think thieves are the reason lol? Pretty sure it has something to do with conquest if anything.

People were running mesmers, one of the other classes I mentioned. And that’s because thieves were nerfed from beta where they were outright ridiculous and everybody was playing one.

But you’re the resident thief class champion, so I don’t expect much from you other than always defending your class. In all your posting history I don’t recall a single time I’ve seen you calling for nerfs to your class.

People were playing chronobunker… BUNKER /facepalm.

That’s 3 years later into an xpac….stop trolling. Mesmer has historically played an offensive roamer role.

They went bunker because thief overshadows shatter/offensive mesmer by a mile, as does revenant. Shatter mesmer can neitehr compete with revenant or thief for offensive roamer.

Cynz.9437:

Fun fact barely anyone played thieves in s1/2 and yet everyone ran bunkers. Do you really think thieves are the reason lol? Pretty sure it has something to do with conquest if anything.

People were running mesmers, one of the other classes I mentioned. And that’s because thieves were nerfed from beta where they were outright ridiculous and everybody was playing one.

But you’re the resident thief class champion, so I don’t expect much from you other than always defending your class. In all your posting history I don’t recall a single time I’ve seen you calling for nerfs to your class.

Agemnon.4608:

Zenith.7301:

Ubik.8315:

This season in a nutshell.

Please, as if any class stood a chance against thieves, revenants, warriors, and mesmers if they ran ANYTHING but bunker.

Newsflash, Rangers, Necros, Eles, and Engineers CANNOT run a single offensive power build without getting 100% countered and farmed by the 3 above classes.

Thief and mesmer in particular ruin any other berserker or marauder build. They cannot be counterplayed with the amount of evades/defensives they have on top of their burst, while a pitiful ranger sits on a 60 sec cd invuln, a necro has nothing for dodges and all his attacks are easily dodge (just like ranger greatsword and longbow), and Ele running in 12-14k HP gets eaten alive by thief.

Thief has to work hard for their burst and have to manage abilities very carefully. Necros have an extra health bar that can even regenerate quite fast while rangers (I have one so I know) have CA form stealth and superspeed on top of combo field triggering via smokeskelk field and staff 3. That’s not even counting longbow range and vantage points, so the environment itself provides defense in many cases. Thief can’t really fight many 1v1’s and losses against them always feel fair. To appreciate thief you really need to play the class, sometimes burning through that initiative is too tempting. Why don’t you shortbow everywhere? Because you might need that precious initiative for a fight. Sometimes a fight comes your way and you need to be ready, but if you can shortbow 5 across the map with some dash thrown in then of course do so.

lolololol work hard for their burst. Good one. Maybe D/P, even though it gets its backstab reset anytime it gets blocked in stealth so they don’t even pay for using backstab at the wrong time.

Staff Daredevil is one of the most braindead builds out there. You get the highest damage autoattack in the game with a built in reflect as if your 5 skill wasn’t doing enough damage. Of course on top of all the perks of steal and the countless resets and dodges available to you.

It’s better to evade damage than tank it, which is why power necros are not meta but thieves are. It’s easier to kill a necro than a halfway decent thief, because the necro can’t escape or quickly reposition while the thief can.

A zerker druid is not putting out the damage of a thief, please don’t kid yourself. If you entered Celestial Avatar on a Berzerker/Marauder build, you are useless as you heal for virtually nothing and in the meantime are not doing any damage whatsoever.

Ubik.8315:

This season in a nutshell.

Please, as if any class stood a chance against thieves, revenants, warriors, and mesmers if they ran ANYTHING but bunker.

Newsflash, Rangers, Necros, Eles, and Engineers CANNOT run a single offensive power build without getting 100% countered and farmed by the 3 above classes.

Thief and mesmer in particular ruin any other berserker or marauder build. They cannot be counterplayed with the amount of evades/defensives they have on top of their burst, while a pitiful ranger sits on a 60 sec cd invuln, a necro has nothing for dodges and all his attacks are easily dodge (just like ranger greatsword and longbow), and Ele running in 12-14k HP gets eaten alive by thief.

Anchoku.8142:

Staff is good as it is in PvE. It fills the role of AoE.

Necromancer needs another weapon to fill in some gaps. Axe range increased so it is now able to do better than staff vs single targets on a power build. Scepter covers ranged condition damage. Necromancer could use a long range power weapon for single targets.

lololololololololol

Staff is terrible in PvE, if you use it in any remotely serious group you deserve to be kicked.

There is nothing that a scepter epidemic build doesn’t eclipse staff on.

Screw daredevil. Metric ton of dodge on top of a stomp that deals damage comparable to backstab but without the “skill” requirement.

They can just jump on someone with basiliks for 70-80% of their health and if it goes south, just troll back out with resets until you run them out of cooldowns because the thief’s evades and heals are on a much shorter cooldown than his opponent’s defensives.

WvW is pretty much littered by these thieves. They don’t remotely pay for mistakes unless another thief gibs them.

Malediktus.9250:

STIHL.2489:

Malediktus.9250:

katz.8376:

Manimarco Devil.1790:

People are so lazy they can’t even be asked to play the game to progress in a different part of it.

i’d really like and appreciate it if you’d quit insulting me (and others like me) because i dislike a certain aspect of the game and would prefer to play to have fun.

Considering that dungeons, fractals and raids are less than 5% it sounds like you dislike 95% of the game and I dont think Anet needs to cater to people who like less than 10% of the game

I have read many Proponents for raiders make the claim they only enjoy raids, following your logic, Anet should cease to cater to them.

Might want to rethink that logic.

This is where you are wrong again. Just because someone likes raids does not mean they cannot also enjoy other parts of the game. More content choices and varity is always good. Since raids only reward you once per week there is no use spending more than 90-120min per week in there sadly. I wish they would still give 2g per boss once per day after you killed them already that week.
Currently they are just a nice distraction you do once a week and then forget about

Well, that’s any raid.

The difference is WoW/Wildstar/FFXIV raids just have a longer shelf-life since they’re more demanding in general.

But raids always overstay their welcome once you’ve got them on farm.

It’s the curse of PvE compared to PvP, the content gets stale much more quickly since it’s scripted and not spontaneous.

It’s not their fault. What is their fault is the pretty miserable rewards raids give.

I didn’t say gating it behind Ley Line Gliding was a bad thing; I said that the view that putting in more masteries as a replacement for gear check would not be remotely the same time investment.

You are hopeless. Go strawman somebody else.

Sabetha.4910:

Zenith.7301:

Rising Dusk.2408:

Get the mastery or don’t do the raid boss that requires it; there are other raid wings and bosses in the third wing which don’t require the mastery for you to play if you don’t want to get the mastery. It’s really that simple.

If you’re opposed to the concept of masteries being required for raids, my opinion is that I disagree with you because raids are end-game PvE content and masteries are like leveling up skills for use in PvE. It makes perfect sense to me to incorporate masteries into raids, like the Speed/Adrenal Mushrooms in Spirit Vale, the Updraft on Gorseval, and now Ley Line Gliding in wing 3. I personally wish they’d validate even more masteries by using them in raids either optionally or otherwise.

I agree with the use of masteries like gliding and mushrooms. I would not agree with requiring multiple end tier masteries or all of them.

It would drastically gate accessibility and ease of entry into the raiding scene if you required anything beyond mushrooms and maxed gliding.

I don’t want people who I invite to come raid with me in this game to be told " You’re gonna grind braindead dynamic events and waste days on ridiculous gold adventure medals or camping NPC’s for specific dynamic event steps to get enough mastery and xp to be raid ready".

WoW doesn’t do this. You can virtually gear up for entry to raids in WoW or FFXIV or Wildstar in a week or two of 2-3 hour play sessions.

Guild Wars 2 should be no different.

Raids should be easy to access and difficult to complete by virtue of their combat mechanics, not silly unnecessary gating.

To anyone who played GW1, you know how stupid Lightbringer ranks were for DoA. EoTN was equally cancerous.

This is an inaccurate assumption. Leyline mastery requires around 31 mastery points, which is not difficult to get. Get silver on most of the adventures, channel the mastery insights, do some achievements, and voila, you get 31 mastery points! For experience, pop a booster and do Dragon’s Stand once or more a day. All of this will let you finish leyline gliding in around a week, with 2-3 hours per day.

And you know what? It’s account-wide. All of your characters will get it, which means you only do it once. I don’t know about you, but I far prefer this to grinding for gear, which IIRC is the norm in other MMO raids.

Masteries have been a part of ‘combat mechanics’ for a while now. You have mushrooms and gliding in the raid, not to mention the specific raiding masteries as well. What constitutes as ‘silly, unneccesary gating’ would be locking it behind gear stats, which doesn’t strictly happen. And I’m saying this as someone who’s not even on rank 166 for masteries.

This is a non-issue, and the biggest uproar seems to be from the ones the raids are targeting the least.

Why are you people so bad at actually READING WHAT’S THERE and not WHAT YOU WANT TO SEE?

I said exactly there that ley line gliding and mushroom masteries are fine. Requiring Nuhoc and Exalted maxed on top would be over the top as an entry requirement.

Neox.3497:

Zenith.7301:

waste days on ridiculous gold adventure medals

Haha yes “days” …

This might come as a surprise to you, but not everybody has your twitch/platforming skills.

Fallen Masks, Shooting Gallery, the Beetles, Floor Is Lava and Golem are probably going to take people more than a day or two to get gold on.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Get the mastery or don’t do the raid boss that requires it; there are other raid wings and bosses in the third wing which don’t require the mastery for you to play if you don’t want to get the mastery. It’s really that simple.

If you’re opposed to the concept of masteries being required for raids, my opinion is that I disagree with you because raids are end-game PvE content and masteries are like leveling up skills for use in PvE. It makes perfect sense to me to incorporate masteries into raids, like the Speed/Adrenal Mushrooms in Spirit Vale, the Updraft on Gorseval, and now Ley Line Gliding in wing 3. I personally wish they’d validate even more masteries by using them in raids either optionally or otherwise.

I agree with the use of masteries like gliding and mushrooms. I would not agree with requiring multiple end tier masteries or all of them.

It would drastically gate accessibility and ease of entry into the raiding scene if you required anything beyond mushrooms and maxed gliding.

I don’t want people who I invite to come raid with me in this game to be told " You’re gonna grind braindead dynamic events and waste days on ridiculous gold adventure medals or camping NPC’s for specific dynamic event steps to get enough mastery and xp to be raid ready".

WoW doesn’t do this. You can virtually gear up for entry to raids in WoW or FFXIV or Wildstar in a week or two of 2-3 hour play sessions.

Guild Wars 2 should be no different.

Raids should be easy to access and difficult to complete by virtue of their combat mechanics, not silly unnecessary gating.

To anyone who played GW1, you know how stupid Lightbringer ranks were for DoA. EoTN was equally cancerous.

cranos.5913:

I have all masteries completed and I was fairly casual about it. 90% of the xp I got through raiding and honestly, it’s not very hard to get the mastery points at all. It doesn’t even take more than a day to get all the points for all masteries, let alone for a single line.

Fallen Masks and Shooting Gallery gold are a stretch, y’know. Fallen Masks with bad RNG…..ugh. I don’t want to see Fallen Masks for as long as the game is still online.

Hey, at least thieves can spam aoe people for 6-7k 3 times on top of the 3 dodges that either make them immune to snares or do another ton of damage, on top of their staff autoattack that is more or less 40-50% stronger than ours.

Meanwhile we get to decide among two mediocre traits to still come out the weakest condition build in the game compared to necromancers/engineers.

Osu.6307:

Honestly, T4 is the easiest tier to pug. 9 times out of 10, everyone in the party is a real pro. It’s T2 and T3 where I had the most problems with pugs not knowing how to play.

Speak for yourself.

I just came out of a Cliffside+Underground Facility T4 (90+) with a 166 mastery Dragonhunter who camped his godkitten longbow just outside melee the entire godkitten time.

I don’t know where these people come from, how they make it so far up to T4 and 166 mastery by just playing terrible builds.

I also had to endure him for pretty long because our group was druid+necro+DH+thief+me (the chronomancer), so we had no real might stacking and while nothing took us below 90% health thanks to that druid, everything died like a century later.

I wish they’d expand might sharing to classes like power necromancer/reaper, restore ranger’s ability to might/fury stack by unnerfing clarion bond and heal as one, and put mesmer’s might stack/sharing not on Chaos but rather on Inspiration or Illusions.

Hell, I’d take it even in Domination or Dueling where our grandmasters are all worthless in PvE.

Yeah, thankfully they didn’t implement that idiotic gear/gold gate to raids.

You can actually bring whatever alt you want without switching gear around your 8 professions.

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Just removing drops won’t change anything, because these now missing percentages would simply be added to the “you get nothing”-chance.

You get something. Not ascended but those percentages get added to actually valuable loot instead of worthless rings or single stack potions.

katz.8376:

and my interest in raiding has now dropped off the bottom of the scale. thanks at least for the heads up… so i can stop worrying about bothering.

?

ALL Heart of Thorns Legendaries required maxed out HoT masteries to craft them, so why is this exactly a problem?

Hell, just to max exalted and gliding all I did was just play the story and do the meta events on each map.

No adventure golds, nothing special. So why can’t you get there?

Ryou.2398:

Jack Skywalker.5674:

Ryou.2398:

Hennessey.2985:

Revenant ist fine in PvE and brings a lot to the table. You should just try it out instead of relying on other people’s opinions.

Im not going to waste my time leveling something I wont enjoy, when lots of people are saying the same thing its usually true, so maybe you shouldnt tell others that all the time.

You don’t have any ideea whether you are going to like revenant based on these comments. Give the rev a spin at least at lvl 30 in the dungeons or in sPvP – I mean me not likeing Glint…that’s my oppinion only….and who knows maybe you will find something about Glint you will like….or other legends.

The problem is I dont want to end up with just auto attack spam, with all the complaints I hear from others about this and energy management complaints this is the impression it gave.

Short of playing a mesmer, ele, or engineer, that’s all you do.

Autoattack spam is the majority of the DPS for most classes that aren’t as rotationally complex as mesmer/engineer/ele.

Revenant uses Autoattack and #2 sword skill while occasionally using the swiftness facet active and switching to another legend to hit impossible odds/vengeful hammers when your energy bar depleted.

I don’t understand why it’s so difficult for you to understand that combat in this game is simplistic compared to WoW/FFXIV/Wildstar rotations.

It’s that simple, you have a weapon with 5 skills on it and of the 5 skills only 1-2 are really DPS optimal. That applies to most of the classes. Live with it or find another game.

They need to also look at raising map caps. It’s pretty silly that a single HP train can see a map capped and like 20-30 people can’t even zone into the map, now imagine for meta events.

Either that, or they need to get to work on their scaling so that the kitten events don’t need 5-10+ people to complete. I can understand for final stage bosses like Gerent and whatnot.

But these maps entirely encourage brute force zerging because of how badly the events scale down.

And it WILL become a problem once people get their masteries and legendaries done and the population moves out of these maps, so late comers/new players won’t have the population density to get their collections/progression done.

Yeah, they just need to remove the garbage items like tomes of knowledge, single stack potions, and ascended rings out of the loot table.

I’d rather they just convert those to t6 mats/lodestones to take their place even.

I’d even take cloth/leather/wood/metal low tier material bags containinng like 10 of two low level mats.

I can’t even get a kitten full ascended salvage kit, just single tools. And I’ve got 30+ rings sitting in the bank. I’m not gonna sink 20 gold into clearing my inventory….

The single stack potions are also salt on the wound, that’s just insulting. Rings shouldn’t even be dropping in T3 or T4 chests to begin with.

Jack Skywalker.5674:

Zenith.7301:

Jack Skywalker.5674:

Which PvE content? For the dungeons it’s still good, for raids…from what I read unless herald (buff bot) Rev’s aren’t wanted. PvP….kitten knows with the nerf on Phase Travel – most people hate it with a burning passion.

What kind of silly post is this?

Elite specs are mandatory in all raids. You’re acting as if because they only want Heralds, revs are neglected when the same applies to any class.

How many rangers instead of DRUIDS are wanted in a raid? How many mesmers instead of CHRONOMANCER.

Get a clue, please.

Buran.3796 covered the quintessence of what I wanted to say, but I will add this – you got me totaly wrong, Zenith.7301…thing is I hate the playstyle of Herald to my very core and the fact that if I try and go raiding with randoms people will tell me to kitten off for not using Glint stance, because of the amount of sodding boons that thing generates.

Buran.3796:

In PvE raids as long as the team has Tempest, Chronos and Druids no other classes are requiered, so Revs are more or less like most of other classes.

In dungeons, fractals and open PvE they work well (anything works here). They have also powerfull tools vs AI due the large amount of skills that can wipe the cc bar of foes, which is a good thing.

And I hate being forced to be a healbot Druid as someone who rolled Ranger to be DPS, or an alacrity boon bot as someone who rolled a mesmer to be DPS.

Or to be forced as a reaper to go condi because greatsword is undertuned.

This is the nature of PvE meta builds. Some builds are better than others based on failures in class balancing.

Jack Skywalker.5674:

Which PvE content? For the dungeons it’s still good, for raids…from what I read unless herald (buff bot) Rev’s aren’t wanted. PvP….kitten knows with the nerf on Phase Travel – most people hate it with a burning passion.

What kind of silly post is this?

Elite specs are mandatory in all raids. You’re acting as if because they only want Heralds, revs are neglected when the same applies to any class.

How many rangers instead of DRUIDS are wanted in a raid? How many mesmers instead of CHRONOMANCER.

Get a clue, please.

Let’s not devolve into elitist slogans, please.

A game can be accessible and still demanding in its endgame.

Just stick to my original point, which is that you’re destroying build diversity and perpetuating massive inequality in performance in PvE just to satisfy the current sPvP scapegoat.

And it’s a vicious cycle, because sPvP will never be balanced. There will always be some meta dominant build that they’ll want nerfed and PvE will pay the price for it.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Zenith.7301:

Furajir.3815:

Zenith.7301:

Nerf might stacking/generation and stance duration and warriors will be fine. Healing Signet has always been one of the most OP heals as has been Defiant Stance, much like Revenant’s Glint heal.

Warriors do such ridiculous damage because they can might stack so easily and their base numbers on greatsword are ridiculously large.

What other class has a 6.5 sec cd weaponskill that cleaves for 50k+ damage in PvE?

In PvP a warrior with 100b takes off 2/3 of a 2300 toughness condi ranger’s HP. That’s a toughness specced shamans ranger, it’s absurd.

Not even thief backstabs hit that hard, and the warrior has enough CC combos to assure a 100b landing, between headbutt/bull’s charge and mace/shield.

Similarly, warrior hammer autoattacks and skills do pretty high base damage.

Warrior scalings need to be tweaked so warriors need to invest as much into offense and be as vulnerable as a berzerker ele or thief to do the kind of damage a warrior is doing.

Problem is that warrior is essentially a berk thief/ele with double the HP, a bunch of immunity stances, tons of condi clear, and high base weapon damage.

At least ele requires plenty of finesse and might stack rotations to do its damage while a warrior only needs to hit someone with their greatsword and profit off 15+ might stacks.

You have zero clue what youre talking about. So now its both condi and power you have an issue with? I guess a 9s resistance buff on a 60s cd and a 4s MELEE immune only stance on a 60s cd is too op?

15 might stacks just off GS attacks? You do realize you have to go Strength line to even get might on crit which noone takes unless they run vanilla.

Corner, now.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Endure_Pain

Not just melee attacks.

Come join in the corner, it’s cozy here.

What do you mean by not just melee attacks?

4s MELEE immune stance is not true. It’s a complete PHYSICAL damage immunity. Which involves ranged projectiles, not just melee strikes.

Just because conditions affect you during Endure Pain does not make it ONLY MELEE.

Crowley.8761:

It’s great until you need to use a ranged weapon The hammer is ok for solo stuff but try and use it in a group – you’ll definitely notice how horribly slow amd awful it is. Oh and if you’re condi spec for a ranged fight – enjoy spectating it.

That said yeah it’s a fun class. Kinda main it in PvE since my Mesmer has such horrible damage output.

The hammer has one of the strongest autoattacks and damaging abilities tied to it, it’s far from the worst ranged weapon.

What’s more, unlike rangers who need to trait so that their autoattack pierces, the revenant has that baseline. It’s super easy to tag with the hammer.

EragamerLG.2390:

I main Rev as well, and have a lot of fun with it, but you seem to talk about it like the be-all end-all, making it seem OP when that’s just an illusion A very well known misunderstanding many people that don’t actually get into the Rev seem to have(Not saying you do too, just pointing it out).

The unlimited upkeep of boons, unlimited super speed, unlimited endurance, those are all conditional.
Specifically, the unlimited boons from the Herald, are very situational as you’ll have to make quick decisions on whether or not to hold those boons or use the active facet, that’s where the Herald’s skill play comes into effect, and until you properly practice it, it’ll seem very easy to keep those unlimited boons but you’ll likely be hurting yourself and your party to an extent, especially when playing a PvP game mode.

The Herald may seem like the easiest and at the same time most rewarding legend to play with(I don’t see it that way, definitely not the most rewarding), but it has some underlying skill involved. I think the rev is a lot like thief, at least personally, where it’s really easy to get into, but hard to master. Not just CD’s but energy management too, especially when it comes to other legends with less passive utilities(no facets).

Definitely enjoying Rev though, hoping ANet FIXES many of their game-breaking bugs soon (when I say game breaking, I mean they simply put me off playing gw2 at times). And looking forward to how the profession gets expanded with ES’s. Also, a better explained background story would be nice…..

Herald is pure PvE faceroll, don’t try to understate it. The circumstances in which you blow any facet other than swiftness are laughably minuscule.

It’s as simple as spamming 1 and 2 while energy drains down, pop f2 and use impossible odds on shiro till energy runs out and swap back to Glint.

That’s PvE, rinse and repeat. If you got a chrono for perma quickness, swap shiro for Jalis and use vengeful Hammers instead of Impossible Odds, and don’t use your f2. Voila.

Revenant is among the easiest classes to play. We’re talking warrior level easy.

Furajir.3815:

Zenith.7301:

Nerf might stacking/generation and stance duration and warriors will be fine. Healing Signet has always been one of the most OP heals as has been Defiant Stance, much like Revenant’s Glint heal.

Warriors do such ridiculous damage because they can might stack so easily and their base numbers on greatsword are ridiculously large.

What other class has a 6.5 sec cd weaponskill that cleaves for 50k+ damage in PvE?

In PvP a warrior with 100b takes off 2/3 of a 2300 toughness condi ranger’s HP. That’s a toughness specced shamans ranger, it’s absurd.

Not even thief backstabs hit that hard, and the warrior has enough CC combos to assure a 100b landing, between headbutt/bull’s charge and mace/shield.

Similarly, warrior hammer autoattacks and skills do pretty high base damage.

Warrior scalings need to be tweaked so warriors need to invest as much into offense and be as vulnerable as a berzerker ele or thief to do the kind of damage a warrior is doing.

Problem is that warrior is essentially a berk thief/ele with double the HP, a bunch of immunity stances, tons of condi clear, and high base weapon damage.

At least ele requires plenty of finesse and might stack rotations to do its damage while a warrior only needs to hit someone with their greatsword and profit off 15+ might stacks.

You have zero clue what youre talking about. So now its both condi and power you have an issue with? I guess a 9s resistance buff on a 60s cd and a 4s MELEE immune only stance on a 60s cd is too op?

15 might stacks just off GS attacks? You do realize you have to go Strength line to even get might on crit which noone takes unless they run vanilla.

Corner, now.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Endure_Pain

Not just melee attacks.

Come join in the corner, it’s cozy here.

Disagree on skirmishes.

For example, WvW abuses plenty of thief and mesmer stealth builds that simply are NOT seen insPvP due to stealth decapping features.

Similarly, bunker chronomancers and trap rangers might be a thing in sPvP due to the core nature of conquest — skills effective on a cap circle — but in WvW skirmishes where people don’t hold on to prioritizing the capping of 3 circles in a map, builds differ quite a bit.

Then you have WvW with exclusive rune/food interactions completely affecting the balance of some builds.

Thieves suffered in spvp where their crit cap was 60% bonus crit damage, but in WvW where the crit damage bonus can go beyond 110% thieves flourished. As have sword/warhorn and hammer/axe+mace warriors which would be laughed out of sPvP.

WvW pvp balance is extremely different from spvp just because of the stat and synergies allowed in that format vs the restrictions placed in spvp.

A thief in WvW can constantly play p/d or permastealth builds and constantly reset and profit, while such troll builds alongside PU mesmers gain no profit in spvp where the stealth hampers more than it helps.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Harper.4173:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I think you guys are horribly overreacting. I read the patch notes myself, and immediately though “From a PVE perspective, this doesn’t mean a darn thing for me”. The tweaks are minor and in the grand scheme mean little to nothing for any of the classes that were changed.

I say this every time this topic comes up: skill splits are what caused City of Heroes to fall. The change in how everything worked from PVE to PVP meant that it was a massive learning barrier that most players couldn’t be bothered with. “Why try to learn the entire game all over again just so I could fight some guys”? The answer was they didn’t, so the PVP community perished and the PVE community could barely keep the game afloat.

Seamless transition between modes is a good thing that should be strived for.

It’s not about this patch in particular – at least not for me.
It’s about the general way things are done in this game.
Look at the stability change that happened a while ago where stability was changed from a duration boon to a boon that has stacks. That change impacted WvW in a major way and ruined the fun of fights in WvW for months to come. Only recently did Anet do something to address it – further underlining that yes there was a problem that their own balance created.

And why was stability changed? Because of PvP -a completely different game type than WvW.

This sort of thing should not happen in the future!

PVP and WvW aren’t completely different game types. But regardless, splitting skills wouldn’t suddenly solve a competency issue Anet has. It just provides another outlet where things can go wrong.

Zenith.7301:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Kentaine.4692:

Here is the problem with balancing though. I have never seen a game balance well. They always go for the nerf bat and forget when you nerf something, something else needs to be increased. Take the Mesmer for example. Nerf their support abilities, but that better mean they get an increase to their DPS too. Ah, but this is how it works for PvE… GW2 balances around PvP. I’d love it if my Mesmer did more base damage after its support got nerfed, but since that would make them OP in PvP it isn’t going to happen. Hence why a split from PvP and PvE skills should happen.

Your perspective is confusing here. The whole point of nerfing something is that it is performing better than the other classes, and so it needs a reduction overall. If you nerf one thing, but then boost another to compensate, then you’re still stuck with the same class being overpowered.

Not really. Look at Druid for a prime example.

Were druids overpowered in raids? Not remotely, they can still be replaced by a Tempest if you desire.

Were smokescales really the breaking factor of what made a druid strong in raids? Not remotely.

If anything, pets SUCK in PvE. Ranger pets don’t benefit from food/pots or sigil/rune bonuses, they don’t scale their crit damage or condition damage/duration rating to the same high levels of the ranger, and most of those pets can’t even hit moving targets.

It’s part of the reason why power ranger DPS has been completely unviable, because a % of the damage they’re designed around doesn’t scale with the 5% stat difference of ascended, it does not share boons with the ranger without a trait, it does not benefit from consumables or equipment bonuses, and most of those pets do terrible DPS.

The best pets, the smokescale/cats, are the least garbage of the bunch and they STILL don’t place power ranger within the DPS range of the other classes. Let’s not even talk moas or bears, whose autoattacks hit for less than a burning tick from a power elementalist.

So why have ranger pets kept being nerfed constantly? PvP.

They actually had to give Druids Grace of the Land so groups would bother taking them instead of adding another Tempest.

In that way, CORE mesmer and CORE mesmer traits don’t need nerfing. Alacrity just needs to be shaved, and mesmer DPS needs to be brought UP.

But mesmer DPS will never be buffed because they refuse to split PvE/PvP.

In all of that, you haven’t explained why it is that the concept of “nerfs are for things that are OP and aren’t meant to be compensated for” is wrong somehow. Besides, I’ve seen mesmer DPS get buffed several times in the past.

That’s the thing, that trait simply wasn’t OP in PvE and if you are nerfing Persistence of Memory because of Alacrity and Quickness uptimes, you are nerfing the WRONG thing.

Well, the warrior will bait out defenses alone just from trading normal skills/autoattacks with you, given that he has a larger health pool and his sustained damage from autoattack outdamages pretty much anything but revenant and thief.

You cannot toe to toe a warrior, and yet warriors have plenty of mobility to stick on you.

Nerf might stacking/generation and stance duration and warriors will be fine. Healing Signet has always been one of the most OP heals as has been Defiant Stance, much like Revenant’s Glint heal.

Warriors do such ridiculous damage because they can might stack so easily and their base numbers on greatsword are ridiculously large.

What other class has a 6.5 sec cd weaponskill that cleaves for 50k+ damage in PvE?

In PvP a warrior with 100b takes off 2/3 of a 2300 toughness condi ranger’s HP. That’s a toughness specced shamans ranger, it’s absurd.

Not even thief backstabs hit that hard, and the warrior has enough CC combos to assure a 100b landing, between headbutt/bull’s charge and mace/shield.

Similarly, warrior hammer autoattacks and skills do pretty high base damage.

Warrior scalings need to be tweaked so warriors need to invest as much into offense and be as vulnerable as a berzerker ele or thief to do the kind of damage a warrior is doing.

Problem is that warrior is essentially a berk thief/ele with double the HP, a bunch of immunity stances, tons of condi clear, and high base weapon damage.

At least ele requires plenty of finesse and might stack rotations to do its damage while a warrior only needs to hit someone with their greatsword and profit off 15+ might stacks.

I think the nerf to Phase Traversal was over the top. I can agree to an increase in energy, but not by that much.

People have to understand that shiro is the only mobility rev has, and by making Phase Traversal virtually flunk 1/3 of their energy bar on top of a cd to close a gap, revenants are paying in DAMAGE/DEFENSE as an opportunity cost compared to a thief or warrior who have similar low cooldown mobility that doesn’t cost them damage.

I’m just not sure how they can justify daredevil with 3 dashes, massive endurance regen, massive DPS, and pretty much unrivaled movement and stealth spam while nerfing rev because it’s the one class that can punish thieves in their own game.

If there’s something WvW needs less of, it’s thieves.

Mesmers and tempests you can disengage and outrun, there is no outrunning a thief or warrior.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Kentaine.4692:

Here is the problem with balancing though. I have never seen a game balance well. They always go for the nerf bat and forget when you nerf something, something else needs to be increased. Take the Mesmer for example. Nerf their support abilities, but that better mean they get an increase to their DPS too. Ah, but this is how it works for PvE… GW2 balances around PvP. I’d love it if my Mesmer did more base damage after its support got nerfed, but since that would make them OP in PvP it isn’t going to happen. Hence why a split from PvP and PvE skills should happen.

Your perspective is confusing here. The whole point of nerfing something is that it is performing better than the other classes, and so it needs a reduction overall. If you nerf one thing, but then boost another to compensate, then you’re still stuck with the same class being overpowered.

Not really. Look at Druid for a prime example.

Were druids overpowered in raids? Not remotely, they can still be replaced by a Tempest if you desire.

Were smokescales really the breaking factor of what made a druid strong in raids? Not remotely.

If anything, pets SUCK in PvE. Ranger pets don’t benefit from food/pots or sigil/rune bonuses, they don’t scale their crit damage or condition damage/duration rating to the same high levels of the ranger, and most of those pets can’t even hit moving targets.

It’s part of the reason why power ranger DPS has been completely unviable, because a % of the damage they’re designed around doesn’t scale with the 5% stat difference of ascended, it does not share boons with the ranger without a trait, it does not benefit from consumables or equipment bonuses, and most of those pets do terrible DPS.

The best pets, the smokescale/cats, are the least garbage of the bunch and they STILL don’t place power ranger within the DPS range of the other classes. Let’s not even talk moas or bears, whose autoattacks hit for less than a burning tick from a power elementalist.

So why have ranger pets kept being nerfed constantly? PvP.

They actually had to give Druids Grace of the Land so groups would bother taking them instead of adding another Tempest.

In that way, CORE mesmer and CORE mesmer traits don’t need nerfing. Alacrity just needs to be shaved, and mesmer DPS needs to be brought UP.

But mesmer DPS will never be buffed because they refuse to split PvE/PvP.

Staff needs its identity crisis solved.

It’s either a condition weapon with the marks, or a power weapon with the autoattack.

Developers need to decide which and adjust either the damage of marks with power scaling or change the autoattack to apply bleed+poison stacks.

The issue is, it SHOULD be a power ranged aoe weapon. Scepter already outclasses staff in the ranged condition department and alongside epidemic and scepter 2 it puts out more ranged aoe condi pressure than the staff.

So they could just shift the staff to be a power aoe/soft weapon, with hard hitting mark triggers and debuffing.

Fix the projectile speed of the autoattack to match the base speed of fireball/longbow arrows.

A large flaw in this game is that its telegraphs are wholly inadequate relative to the amount of spell effects/animations there are, even with the effect filter on.

More importantly, every tell seems balanced around human females or asura because as a male norn or charr I asure you with other charr and male norn you won’t be seeing anything in time.

The draw distance is also hideously capricious in this game.

I don’t know why they ever disposed of GW1’s cast bars on enemies. They are far clearer than all these tiny humanoid bosses with slight animations covered by a barrage of spell effects.

VodCom.6924:

My money is on a zerker (not valk) necromancer who can stack might, vuln and get to 100% crit chances all by himself. Nice ranged options are available if there is a need. Only drawback : the DPS has to ramp up.

The ele is also potent but made of toilet paper that will break if an enemy sneeze at it. However it has a higher initial burst than the necromancer.

A DPS Warrior (we are in a solo setup so no phalanx) is also very nice. However, you will miss some crit chances and will require to bring all of your targets to melee range either by clever positioning or by chasing them. Chasing targets is a huge DPS loss as the warrior does not have a very good ranged weapon.

Necromancer has even worse ranged weapons in a power spec compared to warrior.

Like, axe has got to be THE worst ranged power weapon in the game.

Having full ascended with only exotic viper trinkets is a marginal difference.

If a raid group won’t take you because your trinkets are exotic instead of ascended and they fear that will wipe them, they’re likely incompetent morons and you should avoid their group anyways.

If your group knows the mechanics, the content is perfectly doable even in full exotics.

Hell, some of these bosses are being 4-5 manned. That should give you an idea about the actual DPS requirements. People just love to exaggerate the difficulty of these raids. These raids are no WoW mythics, FFXIV Savage modes, or Wildstar raiding.

Tentonhammr.7849:

Makai.3429:

TexZero.7910:

Forestnator.6298:

Splitting skills for PvP and PvE seems to be fine for most of you. It may not be an issue if you only play PvE. It also may not be an issue if you only play PvP.

It is indeed an issue if you play PvE and PvP and both with multiple classes. The required skill knowledge increases drastically and ends up frustrating.

Also remember how confusing and unclear this will be for new players.

Don’t think in that limited mind please: just form your point of only playing one mode.

Please speak for yourself. You might end up frustrated and confused, but lets be real here. To think all new players are mentally deficient is a bad way to go about setting precedence for “balance”.

Balance should be done around the high end of every mode of play. Yes, this increases the “burden of knowledge” but that ultimately creates a healthier state as people have more information as a whole.

Thank you. I find this coddling mentality demeaning to all players.

You mean the players who don’t know how CC works? Who can’t execute a breakbar against the Shatterer or any of the Wyverns? The overwhelming majority who spam buttons at any open world event? The fair number who do the same in pug fractals and dungeons and raids every single day? You really don’t think Anet has justification for dumbing down the game when people can’t even handle dodging?

The playerbase can blame itself for this as much as a lack of dev resources.

These people existed in GW1 and their split worked just fine. Dumb people are no new circumstance in gaming.

That’s the whole point of playing a game; you get better over time. It’s awful that some designers are seeing this as an obstacle rather than a feature and opting for removing any complexity out of a game to turn their cash cow into some Facebook game.

Agemnon.4608:

Zenith.7301:

Some day you’ll actually bother to split balancing for the kitten formats.

It’s a disgrace that weak elementalist shouts and mesmer’s already bottom tier DPS are getting nerfed just because of PvP.

Same goes for ranger, nerfing the one pet who doesn’t do absolutely non-competitive DPS.

You hired a raid team, why won’t you hire a PvE balance team, since it’s so obvious your current devs are focused on their beloved e-sports balancing at the expense of all other content?

Flash Freeze is a PBAoE chill that also triggers frost aura and when paired with aurashare gives allies around you frost aura too so I wouldn’t call it a weak shout.

Elementalist is simply the best class in the game due to its healing, mobility and disengage (if taking the proper utilities), zoning, focus interrupts and invulnerability, weapon blast finishers that can stealth the ele in a smokefield or stack might in fire fields, and has lots of chill and burning access.

A short duration chill mostly useless against breakbar mobs, that gives a 10% damage reduction for 4 seconds IF they get hit by some direct damage.

Come on, don’t be dumb.

The ele might be strong, but the shouts are not. It’s like nerfing fire axe conjure because ele DPS is good.

You don’t nerf weak skills in PvE because the class is strong.

Lalainnia.3598:

Is it really going to affect PVE that hard… Seen worst tbh this is not one of them, but it is always sad that a pvp change will hurt pve. What I’m really curious about is do games actually have the means to separate pvp and pve stuff on a large scale unless it was done at launch like a advertised part of the game?

World of Warcraft and FFXIV have completely separate PvE/PvP balancing.

Guild Wars 1 was the original game to do the PvE/PvP split, but most of the GW1 team has moved on so what remains with the GW2’s direction is more PvP focused garbage.

On a game that largely monetizes off PvE players.

They even nerfed the garbage shouts from tempests in PvE as well. Who the hell thought Flash Freeze and Feel The Burn were overtuned in PvE?

Same goes for ranger smokescale. Like mesmer, rangers are the other lowest DPS class, and they nerf their only good DPS pet, it’s a joke.

Condi mesmer, condi rev, and condi thief all share the same feature of being inferior condi specs.

Why? They don’t have access to burning, the only condition that doesn’t suck DPS wise.

The only exception is necro and that’s not because necro does more damage, in fact it does less DPS than any burn engineer or ranger, but because necros can cheese encounter mechanics to clone their damage to inflate it.

Damage needs to be shaved off burning and brought into torment, bleeding, confusion, and poison.

In the case of torment and confusion, they should do the same DPS as bleeding and just have the movement/attack triggers be a benefit on top of it since torment and confusion are harder to stack and upkeep than bleeding.

Another reason why condi mesmer and rev suck in PvE is that they can’t cleave worth kitten. Unlike engineer or necro, their condi application for the most part is single target and harder to spread around various targets in an area.

Most importantly, condi rev relies a lot on Mallyx while power rev can just sit in Glint and lose very little.

?

Guardian’s top DPS spec is power hammer. Rev’s top DPS spec is power 1h sword.

Both are fairly dull playstyles because their damage is largely concentrated on their autoattack, and in the case of the revenant your #2 skill.

Herald turns the revenant into a rather passive class as your role is to fart out boon for the group, so you just turn on passives until it’s time to switch to Jalis or Shiro to recharge your energy until Glint is back.

The battlemage is obviously the dagger elementalist or mesmer, or even power reaper. Power reaper isn’t that rotationally engaging either.

So if you want some more engaging rotation you’ll probably go for mesmer or ele.

However, if you truly want an entertaining, rotationally complex class, engineer is your best bet.

Norjena.5172:

Hammer sucks anyway in PvE, so i wont care if they would change it to an hybrid dps.
But instead of that, they should make condimallyx melee useful in pve.

It doesn’t suck in PvE. It’s the power weapon you use in any circumstance you need to go ranged, which is not uncommon with Wyvern or Chak Gerent or any highly upscaled dynamic event where the champs can pretty much 1-shot your berzerker revenant.

Just because you don’t use it in raids or dungeons doesn’t mean it’s useless. It also sees its use in the underground facility fractal.

So, yeah, go ruin some other weapon by making it hybrid.

By this point it seems like pretty much a troll thread if someone is seriously asking for 3-5 sec window burst.

The bulk of the power in full ascended comes from the weapons. Armor is a 5% stat bonus. If you’re wiping, it’s not because you don’t have ascended armor.

The only point at which ascended armor becomes mandatory is for Tier 4 fractals due to agony resistance.

Hooglese.4860:

They should make hammer hybrid DPS so some abilities do condis, like the frequently unused 3, but others do pure DPS

NO.

NO.

NO.

Hybrid DPS weapons suck in PvE.

TheSouL.1098:

@reikken
Even on small hitboxes? Most of the meteors wont hit the target

Use whatever you want, ele beats every class with either dagger or staff. By that point, it doesn’t even matter.

Thing is, ele and thief are far less forgiving when you got a garbage team or you are soloing HoT difficult champs/elites/vets or packs of them.

Warrior, rev, and guard just have a much easier time with solo DPS in glass cannon gear.

And if you really wanna faceroll, play a necro (power/condi, doesn’t really matter as minions facetank things for you).

Eh, it’s pretty obvious by now they will never undermine their precious trading post as the most efficient means to obtain high end items.

If people can circumvent the ridiculous 400+ gold price tag on full ascended crafting (not including the cost of leveling the professions themselves), their beloved goldsinks would suffer.

As usual, if you’re doing anything but Trading Post Baron, you’re doing raids/fractals not because they have good rewards but because they’re fun. GW2 will never have good/optimal in-game rewards so long as John Smith’s tenure endures.