Guild Wars 2

Rashagal.5867:

Its OK, buddy. Tomorrow it will reset and your fairweathers can come back and put you ahead of AR for a bit so you don’t have to QQ about coattails till they leave you again. Hush now. Tomorrow is a new day!

Not even QQ, just stating facts. AR was in last place because they had no coattails to ride due to NSP and BP being so close in score. The placings were how they should have been, given that all 3 servers were actually attacking each other. Literally as soon as BP capped our stuff in the early morning, AR moved in to cap the paper gates, and then claimed glory.

NSP outplayed AR this week, we took chances, and tried for the win. AR can’t do anything on their own, and they don’t attack the server in 1st because they only care about 2nd. Prove me wrong.

Dovgan.8605:

Pretty much Zara. Fall back, build a treb or 2 in SM. In siege alone we broke over 2 gold worth while they just kept pounding face into the door. Now if they needed the PPT I could see it, but they capped it after almost an hours time. Whoever was leading, you are funny!

LOL this is just a blast, I guarantee BP has been poking at you to see if you are even alive over there. I don’t think I have seen a bigger collection of limp noodles in my life. I bet if BP took your area on EB, you would only take it back and not even retaliate, but continue riding their coattails in attacking us.

imalog.7689:

no no! you see! thats why i kept rolling your kitten! because kitten like you kept saying stupid kitten on the forums! So i would come on, take your bay and hills to remind you, i’m better than you.

EDIT: wheres your hills

It sounds like you are so mad about me being correct in all of my statements, that you attacked us after everything had already been reset, only futher illustrating my point that the entire AR server only rides the coattails of whatever server seems to be dominating, which is why they only ever come in 2nd place. Good job proving me wrong

Also, your statement about Sekz understanding, hilariously contradicts the rest of your server’s opinions on alliances between other servers. I’m not saying that they do, but they are one of the only guilds on the server that openly communicate with guilds from other servers.

Pick your poison <3

Tetra Bug.7134:

I do fight clubs with BP clear evidence of cross server collusion all BP and AR should be banned from WvW NSP wins forever

Except AR doesn’t work with BP, you are arguing over something that we agree on. What I’m saying is that AR won’t attack anybody on their own, you all play for 2nd place. If NSP attacks BP, AR will too, if BP attacks NSP, AR will too. I wouldn’t have such a reaction from all of you if it weren’t true.

Kardiamond.6952:

@Anthsss

Do you have a random theory generator Anthsss? :`)

Everybody know that early on this week, some commanders in both BP and NSP allied to focus on Anvil Rock. One of the commander even said it on the forum.

With ALS taking time off, We can only do so much to come back.

I don’t think right now we can play for the first place, the score difference is too big. We will have to settle for second and try the first next week.

Well, being a part of the server alliance, we never once discussed working with either server. If you want to think we worked with BP, that’s cool, but I’m pretty sure it was BP’s borderland that we took on reset, not AR, and it was also BP’s keep in EB that we took twice in two days. I mean, maybe I have the definition of an alliance wrong, but thus far I have yet to see how I’m wrong in any of my statements I’ve made.

ALS wasn’t taking a break this week, it’s their excuse for not being in 2nd the whole time, I know this because on reset, I repelled them at hills on BP borderlands with the pugs I was leading. We don’t make excuses when we are losing, we just keep fighting

Dovgan.8605:

@anthsss The only server that has publicly stated it’s comfortable coming in second place is NSP.

So is that why you came after NSP? Some random said that they liked 2nd place and you got all buttmad about it because 2nd place is always AR’s spot and we were taking it from you? Makes sense

bradderzh.2378:

@anthsss

I seem to recall a massive golem rush earlier in the week hitting AR hills with a certain NSP guild straight through the outer door about 10 mins after BP broke it down.

I know exactly why they were there and what they wanted but to anyone else that could see that as NSP’s underhanded attempt scavenge or ‘just follow’ as you put it. Point I am trying to make is this is a 3-way battle, so stop making stupid uninformed comments about doubleteaming and/or servers picking battles in an opportunist fashion because everyone does it.

Basically what I gather from this is that you are comfortable with only ever coming in 2nd place.

Lorn.3208:

The moment NSP finally realizes it’s not a good idea to trash talk on the forums will be the moment NSP finally does not have to deal with getting “double teamed” the vast majority of the week. BP generally hates AR more than NSP, unless of course you wipe Kalkz numerous times causing him/her to go into total rage mode until s/he has either quit or actually taken whatever it is s/he wanted.

AR hates BP more than NSP unless of course people on NSP trash talk AR enough to get TwoGallants all hot and bothered enough to lead ALS through our borderlands, or some AR commander decides to attack NSP out of pure spite for being wiped numerous times.

Either way, I see NSP fighting AR in the borderlands even more now…that’s really going to be fun and/or boring. Either way, more pointless bragging will ensue causing more forum rage which leads to WvW rage on a continuous cycle. It’s all quite predictable at this point.

Carry on people.

Not even trash talking, simply making an observation. I know that Bird and I got Kalkz all buttmad, that’s why we play, to actually have a battle, and we play to win. AR simply comes in and caps what was already reset and claims glory. They only ever play for 2nd place, regardless of the circumstance.

Prove me wrong.

Kalkz.5297:

BP and AR WORKING TOGETHER. You have no idea how u made me laugh, basically you were at 2nd because we were focusing AR most of the time and ALS are taking a break, we were focusing AR coz they can match us in this tier, so BP attacks AR with no ALS most of the time and your things stay clean, but outta nowhere u came and went way too far with BP at night by capping Lowlands and Sm twice, and that was a really stupid move from the commanders to make BP full focus you, feel the power of BorlisPass my friend, we still not even trying

When you told me I would feel the full power of Borlis Pass, I thought you were flirting with me, and I’m really upset that you would flirt with Ronny so openly even after I thought we were doing so well together.

BP and AR aren’t working together, they simply aren’t attacking each other. AR simply rides the coattails of either NSP or BP, that’s the only way that they can effectively compete with us. If they know that we are attacking BP, they will too, if they know that BP is attacking us, they will too. Simply put, AR doesn’t know how to play, they just follow.

Hammerhorn.1347:

I just wanna say great job on the coordinated attack by ALS and VS on the NSP hills tonight team work was great.

Hammerhorn.1347:

Great team work again today with VS and ALS taking over the entire NSP map! Yes Rob that was me who staked you inside your garrison and laughed , tag your it!!!!

Case in point, VS didn’t even show up to take hills, and when they flipped our borderlands, it was a very short time after BP had flipped it.

Discuss.

divzy.8635:

anthsss.1564:

On a more serious note, Kalkz, I would say that you did well, if it didn’t take 4 hours and 10 golems to take a keep from pugs that were outmanned by the siege set up in the keep.

It was one hour and 5 golems. Not nice to lie about it.

I actually stumbled onto Kalkz trying to ninja it at 7am EST before you guys took BL and switched to my main, and there were 2 golem attempts, the first, failed one, I have on fraps

On a more serious note, Kalkz, I would say that you did well, if it didn’t take 4 hours and 10 golems to take a keep from pugs that were outmanned by the siege set up in the keep.

Evilzara.6378:

I heard it was just ALS.

All I saw was ALS, there may have been a few VS, but I was right in the middle of it and didn’t see any.

Also, another notable group was GOAT that was stuck at vale fighting pugs for like 3+ hours, I laughed.

Kalkz.5297:

anthsss.1564:

I guess we aren’t friends anymore

You pmed me, and trashed BP. so i replied back, i can understand why you didn’t post what you sent to me, you dont want yourself to look bad. DRAMA.

All I asked was if you liked my guild banners. I spent a ton of time on my emblem and I wanted feedback, so I claimed your keep to show you how cool they are. I just want to let you know that I’m really sorry if I offended you, I thought we were just joking around because you joined my party while we were attacking your keep, and I figured you would be able to take some friendly banter. I would really appreciate if you would unblock me, I feel like we could be really good friends.

P.S. You were right, you did make me cry when you blocked me :’(

I guess we aren’t friends anymore

SteepledHat.1345:

So it’s a contract that you have the option to pull your money out of at any time before the transfer occurs. That leaves it open to manipulation, does it not? These orders could be used to make it seem as if there are more potential buyers than there really are. It could be used to present the player, like our topic creator, with an unrealistic view of demand for that good. It gives him imperfect information about the demand of the product. This creates inefficiency, does it not?

It’s basically like having a planted buyer in an auction to shore up bids. The demand isn’t really there, because these planted bidders are employed by the auction house. If they do happen to win the bid, they just don’t get a sale. No money changes hands. But they can make it seem as if the item is more valued by the buying population. They give the illusion of demand in that sense.

All that being said, this isn’t really my field, so I’m reluctant to comment at all. I could be totally wrong.

This. This is exactly the point I was trying to make with what happened.

Astraea.6075:

@SteepledHat: Yes it does leave it open to manipulation, but unlike your auction example, there is the potential for other sellers to enter the process, thereby disrupting the plans of the person(s) attempting to push up the price. Admittedly, some of the high-value markets in the game won’t have a large number of potential sellers, but it’s still a possible risk faced by people employing such a strategy.

While I don’t condone this sort of behaviour, I can’t see an obvious way to restrict it from happening that can’t be easily overcome.

Actually, other sellers would only cause them to throw the price even more. The people constantly adjusted their bids so that they were higher than mine, effectively blocking me from getting the item via buy order until after somebody sold it to them. When they buy it, it only adds to their control of the market, and it would only allow them more freedom in charging what they want.

The first two answers are good answers, the other two seem to have not actually read the post. So, I will quote myself and maybe you will be able to read this time.

anthsss.1564:

So I just bought a mini jack-a-lop on the TP, I am not at all upset with my purchase, but the events that lead up to it, and the events afterwards too. are what disappointed me.

I am more concerned about it happening to other players that are less fortunate than myself and it would affect more. If the market is being controlled, then the sell offer isn’t actually a fair price. I had the gold, I bought it because I wanted it, but the fact that it was a false demand is what made me post about it here. In most other games that is a ban-able offense for scamming, but since the TP is anonymous it’s a bit of a different scenario and you can’t actually tell if you are getting scammed or not.

So I just bought a mini jack-a-lop on the TP, I am not at all upset with my purchase, but the events that lead up to it, and the events afterwards too. are what disappointed me.

I don’t know exactly how long ago I posted a buy order on the tp (within the last few days), but it was for 170g, the highest at the time was 150g, and the sell order was 225g. The next day there was a new sell order and a new buy order, the buy order was higher than mine, and the sell order was 223g, So, I bumped up my buy offer in order to get on top and not have to wait for as long. Some time passed, and I saw that the person who placed that buy order above mine had also retracted theirs and put it above mine again. This went on several times until that player’s buy order reached 190g. So I put mine above their 190g and checked back a little bit later and saw another player had posted an order for 200g, so I decided that 23g wasn’t a huge difference at this point so I decided to buy it at the sell order price.

This is the interesting part, when I went to show it to my friends and guildies, somebody told me that it was only 150g, I said to look again because there were buy orders for 190 and 200g on there, and they said no, so I went to look, and those buy orders were gone, not even 10 minutes after I bought the mini.

It appears that the player or players that posted the buy orders were only doing so to bump up my buy order and to sell it at the buy instantly price, which creates a false demand in order to get people to pay a higher price for something that otherwise wouldn’t be as costly if the market weren’t controlled by a select few. I felt that 170g was a fair offer to make since it was quite a bit higher than the highest offer, and I know that there was the minipet sale the other day, I really only increased the price I would pay because I thought that there was actual competition to get the mini.

My question is, based on the rules of the game, does this count as scamming, and if so, what can be done about it?

I had MF gear for a while, and as soon as I dropped it, I got rares and exotics like never before. I have only known 1 person that MF has worked for, everybody else it has made their drops worse.

This puzzle was perfect, not super hard, and not super easy either. I got it on my 5th try, but I was close to dying and I had fun doing it too.

I got 2 hats, but when I hit deposit collectibles they disappeared, I never got a claim ticket with them, but I thought that it was one or the other.

EDIT: When I open the Hero screen it shows that I have 4 in my inventory instead of the 2 that I got, but none of them show up under the “I” inventory menu or the bank menu.

I have the minis to make the baby quaggan mini, but I don’t have any idea where to get the enchanted stuffing.

Also, killer update, I really like this one.

I am having the same issue, but I now have 90 of them since I thought it was an amazing deal at around 4s each. I can’t salvage or forge them, and I held onto them them because it definitely seems like a bug, otherwise they will be rare max armor pieces that you can buy just above vendor price since.

So I will be keeping mine until it is confirmed as a bug or not.

edit: changed the word “kept” to “held onto” because it read as “ankittenpt them”

Yumiya.3951:

You underestimate the need to complain for certain people. If such odds were posted, they would continue crying about item X only having a drop rate of percentage X.

It’s not about blame. It’s about something they want but don’t get right away.

The people complaining now have an actual problem, your scenario would have much less people complaining, and there would be no valid argument for them to fall on. With this, there is actual damage that has been done, and the people who feel they have been mistreated have a valid argument as to why.

kaffaljidhma.1496:

I strongly suggest you check out TF2 Mann Co. Supply Crates, which as far as I know were the first to implement this “play for the item, pay to unlock it” scheme. The odds of getting anything not specifically stated as guaranteed from the chest were gradually learned by the community to be low: 1-2%. This was without any written or numerical notification whatsoever. The unusuals did have a written modifier that stated the rarity, because the chance for getting an unusual is somewhere between .05% to .1%. I have just heard that the drop rate for items from black lions chests is between 1%-2%, so that doesn’t surprise me.

In fact, I have never come across a situation where event items coming from chests was anything other than guaranteed or <=1%. I have never encountered any system that operated in the 33% or 10% range of getting that item or nothing (there are cases where you could get a 10% chance of a specific item, but that was because you could get 9 other types of items and you were guaranteed 1 per chest).

Therefore, when I opened my first black lion chest and did not get an item, I immediately assumed the chance was somewhere around 1%. This was due to my experience with this system in the past.

If you have never been exposed to this type of thing, I’m sorry that you didn’t play the games that established these rules. This is how it always has been, though, and it is therefore reasonable assume that Arena Net did not expect people to approach this with these assumptions, since they were very familiar with the model I just described, which is the standard.

This is actually the best response to my original post, and I applaud you for it. The thing is that Guild Wars has prided itself for “not being like any other MMO” and based on the cash shop from the original guild wars, what you bought you got, and it was yours. I did know that there was a chance, but since I never played any other MMO, I felt taken advantage of due to the low drop rate when I expected it to be roughly the same as if you were to get a specific item in the black lion chest (i.e. the chance of getting a certain boost or consumable)

Rainfall.4017:

@Anthsss Here’s where we hit a snag. You didn’t know the exact chance, and you `clearly have a big problem with that. So, it stands to question why on earth you bought keys in the first place in the knowledge you were obviously unhappy about not knowing the facts, right?

I’m sorry i’ve seen this argument and i don’t buy it. The only reason people are using the weak ‘they never told us the odds’ argument is because they lost. Yet before that they were happy to blow money. The reason why is because you lot don’t actually care at all, if you got benefit. You didn’t so now there’s an uproar.

EDIT: Just and edit to reinforce the fact. Fact is, you can’t complain about it being gambling after you’ve bought a ton of keys. This just proves you knew it ws a gamble yet did it anyway. Hence no backbone. Hence everyones now butthurt about it. This just shows how people will try to use situations to their advantage just because they’re in a bad position now.

This is not it at all, the accepted and successfully functional system that had been created by the original Guild Wars was changed. Real world money should not be able to buy you anything that gives you an advantage in the game, and as a player of the original Guild Wars, I expected modest chances for something that only provides aesthetics to the game and has no actual benefit.

Edit: The dissatisfaction that I feel is not primarily from gambling, but the deception of the odds and having a tie to real world money. Gambling with a fake currency is one thing, but gambling with real world money is not fun.

Xenlai.8694:

It was not meant to be a solution. It was more of a compensation. And they really didnt have to do it either. If you spent a lot of money on keys then it’s your problem really.

Dont flood the forums just because you were greedy enough to beleive you would get rich from the chests. Thank you.

This is the exact opposite of what my intentions were and the reaction you should have as a consumer of a product.

Based on previous knowledge of the original Guild Wars cash shop, when you bought something it was account bound, I had no intention of making any money off of the skins, and as a consumer, I have the right to complain if I feel mistreated, and to expect a reasonable solution that adequately fixes the problem. This was not compensation, compensation would have been returning our money or our keys, neither of those happens, so therefor it is not compensation. I am not asking for compensation, I am asking for a solution to fix the mess that they created that caused many many people to lose trust in their company.

How about this scenario to make it a little easier for you to grasp how I feel. You go to a restaurant and there is hair in your food, do you eat it, or do you complain? If you are dissatisfied with a service, it is your right to complain and expect a reasonable solution.

You can get the skins from the trading post, yes, but that doesn’t make it okay. In order for those to appear in the trading post, they needed people to gamble to get them. The drop rate is so shamefully low that you should attempt to do the math of how many people sank both gold and real world money into the keys and see just how devious it actually is. Buying them from the trading post only hides the issue.

XiaMae.9874:

It sounds like you’re not familiar with the well-known “gachapon” feature that’s in a lot of MMO cash shops. Just like regular Black Lion Chests, the “Halloween edition” doesn’t guarantee rare items, they just added new ones to the mix.

I understand that they don’t guarantee rare items, but there were no stated odds for either the black lion chest and the mad king chest, which is why I brought up fraud by deception. Whether the online gambling is an appropriate term is debatable, however, fraud by deception is very accurate. I can surely say that I would not have bought the keys if I had known that the drop rate was so low, among many many other people.

thavleifrim.4176:

My biggest problem is that they offered a solution, gambling is gambling it was obviously gambling and if you spent money on it then any loss is your responsibility and yours alone.

The gambling I accepted, the fraud by deception, I didn’t.

Jrunyon.3012:

Seriously?… Youre blowing this ridiculously out of proportion…

It is my opinion as a consumer and my feedback with stated facts. The cash shop is going in a direction that is not pleasant, I only hope that my feedback will assist to “nip it in the bud.” If I am blowing it out of proportion, chances are, there will be somebody that takes it to a higher level out of proportion.

Diviner.7405:

Instead of blowing 30g on chest, spend it on the item you want?

Yeah it sucked that the chances of getting anything is low, but at least you can get them…

This would be nice, if it were just in game gold, but it is also real world money, which makes it a real world problem.

ArenaNet, I have played and supported both of the Guild Wars titles beyond the box purchase, and have been a loyal follower for roughly 5 years now. I will say that I was hugely disappointed in the black lion chest scandal that happened, among many many others (1000 replies within 24 hours is an enormous amount). When I saw that there was a “solution” that your team had come up with, I was a bit wary, but still willing to give it a try since not all of my faith had been removed by this one mishap. Wisely, I decided to get on the forums to see what the feedback was on these new Mad King Chests, and it’s safe to say that you managed to ruin many people’s Halloween event.

The things that get me are the fact that Halloween is ArenaNet’s favorite event (http://www.arena.net/blog/arenanet-suits-up-for-halloween), you had always delivered in past Halloween events, this year it really just feels dirty. Was it that those people that enjoy Halloween at ArenaNet didn’t work on this content? Because this is just shameful and you should all be embarrassed of the fraud by deception scheme. The following is a quote from, ArenaNet lead producer, Chris Whiteside on the permanent banning of over 3000 players that decided to exploit the game:

“We take our community and the integrity of the game very seriously, and want to be clear that intentionally exploiting the game is unacceptable. The players we banned were certainly intentionally and repeatedly exploiting a bug in the game.

“We intended to send a very clear message that exploiting the game in this way will not be tolerated, and we believe this message now has been well understood.”

This is an ethical lesson that was being taught to the people who exploited, it was an extremely serious ethical lesson for over 3000 people, only a couple of days after the game was released. If you are going to teach, teach by example. The exploit that the players had committed in game was for a digital currency that has no monetary value in a game that has no monetary value, unless somebody were to break the rules even further and sell the gold for real world money, only then would it level up to the exploitation that your team imposed on the community during this Halloween event. You never had a problem in the original guild wars with events and exclusive items, most notably, the miniature polar bear, do the same style of events and we will be content.

The fact of the matter is that what you did is illegal, you can call it online gambling, or fraud by deception, it is up to you. But the “chance” feature and the ability to utilize real world money to increase your chances is gambling in the most real sense, and the fact that the odds are not stated and it is computer generated, is fraud by deception. If you go to a casino, slot machines have the odds on them, all of them do. If you go to a horse race, or bet on a sports game, the bookies have the odds.

This is a very real situation, and it is a very real possibility that there will be somebody that seeks legal counsel. You only postponed this situation by the small amount of faith that people had left in your company. I don’t know how many people are playing guild wars 2, or that purchased keys to get the exclusive items, or that are dissatisfied with their purchase, but do you really want to play those odds?

Consider this an ethical lesson on exploits and gambling, a very hard and dirty lesson that we all are learning. This is now your headache. My advice? Come up with a solution that will actually solve the problem and don’t do anything like this ever again.