Guild Wars 2

OC the winner of the EU tournament of the legends are gaining attention. Same for their specs.

And after a few days of the final the first qq threads about this spec started, a lot of ppl (including me) are trying this spec at the moment, and the first vids about ppl running this spec occur.

So forgive me if I think that the specs popularity is drastically increased, because Sizer runs this spec last weekend.

So you have copied Sizers build. GZ.

Amonatory.2453:

I just find it funny when I get told to hs spam more while I’m playing s/d.

This also happens to me from time to time.
I think it just shows how conditioned the ppl are. Loosing to a thief? OC he is a permstealth hs spamming noob. I don’t even need to improve my gameplay.

In my opinion is playing a power based caster killer the best option you have.

If the enemy is sticky, your SB can deal a good amount of damage, because you can run nearly full zerker. If some casters are going low, switch to your melee weapons, target them in your group, and burst them down.

mango.9267:

So it seems this would only really benefit s/d and p/d. But taking it means you can’t take 30 in Shadow Arts and Trickery in WvW, and you can’t take 30 in Critical Strikes and Trickery in PvP. I’d prefer 30 in any of those trait lines than 30 in Deadly Arts — the 200 power just isn’t worth it.

Why cant you take 6 SA and & Trickery in WvW? And why can’t you take 6CS and 6 Trickery in PvP?

6 Points DA with RT outdamage 6 Points CS with Executioner while the health of the enemy is over 50%.

Hi,

I have read a lot of strange things regarding the patch, and how much overall dps we loose, so I will just make a small example. Imagine standard d/d wvw build 0/6/6/2/0 with traveler runes and full zerker. The attack chain is cnd/bs/aa-chain repeat. For the calculation I assume a target with 2000 armor.

Pre-Patch:
Cnd: (2033(power) * 1.57(critdmg) * 0.55(prec) + 2033) * 1.5(skillmodification) * 0.5(this is * 1000 daggerdmg / 2000 armor) = 2841 (this is the average damage)
Note: The wiki says, that the skillmodificator for CnD is 1, but I don’t think that is true, because the damage is too low, and if I remember correct, Cnd deals the same amount of damage like a hs between 25% and 50%.
BS: (2033 * 1.57 * 1 + 2033) * 2.4 * 0.5=6270
AA-Chain (2033 * 1.57 * 0.55+1033) * 2.25 * 0.5=4262

So the average dmg per chain is 13373. Plz keep in mind that there are a lot of other factors, like might, vulnerability, side strike and so on.

Post-Patch the crit damage is know around 72% if I calculated correct. The traveler runes lost 4% crit damage out of 6%.

CnD (2033 * 1.22 * 0.55 + 2033) * 1.5 * 0.5=2547
BS (2033 * 1.22 * 1 + 2033) * 2.4 * 0.5=5416
AA-Chain (2033 * 1.22 * 0.55 + 2033) * 2.4 * 0.5=3682

Average dmg per chain: 11644
Damage modification in comparison to pre-patch: -13%

This is close to the promised -10%. One factor, why the loss is a little bit higher are maybe the traveler runes.

So, to gain the same amount of damage, we have to sacrifice some defence. What if we skill 4/6/4/0/0.

CnD (2233 * 1.22 * 0.55 + 2233) * 1.5 * 0.5=2798
BS (2233 * 1.22×1 + 2233) * 2.4 * 0.5=5949
AA-Chain (2233 * 1.22 * 0.55 + 2233) * 2.25 * 0.5=4197

Average dmg per chain: 12944×1.05(daggertraining)=13561

Note: Like I said above, the calculation is flawed in different points (might, bloodlust and so on) but for the overall picture I think it is good enough.

Conclusion: Yes, of course you have to give up some defense to deal the same amount of damage then pre-patch. But the same counts for your enemy (if he is not running a condi build).

Maybe I am alone here with my opinion, but I like this patch. Maybe there will be some meta builds without putting 6 points into CS. Maybe there will be builds with RT outside of pve. I really hope that the metagame shifts. I really hope there will be a thief meta in wvw outside of x/6/6/x/x. So old builds doesn’t work as good as before. So? I think the build that suffers the most is d/p, the build I played the most, and I am not even sad.
I really like that now everyone is trying new builds and is experimenting. I tried 6/6/2/0/0 s/d and it worked great.

You can always trait more damage until you reach signet burst, and I am not sure if this is now not even stronger (RT).

Prince.7198:

apocom.3172:

This is not true, you have +200 power while revealed. I run different builds in pvp with this trait atm. 30/30/10/0/0 S/D looks nice with this.

This is good news! So they went with the original plan and the game update page is wrong? I haven’t been able to test this but can you confirm?

Yes, if the hero panel displays my power correct, i have +200 power for 4sec in pvp. No matter how often I attack. The ingame description of the skill match with this.

Prince.7198:

#1Deadly Arts: Revealed Training: Gain up to 200 extra power when striking an enemy from stealth, based on your level.
WHAT!!? we were gonna get a power buff upon reveal! What happened to the great devs idea of engaging thiefs to step out of stealth!! Instead we get a power buff that only applies to 1 hit (aka restoring our pre ferocity backstab damage by trading in the last defensive traits we had, Go GLASS OR GO HOME). That seems a little weak for a GM trait doesn’kitten

This is not true, you have +200 power while revealed. I run different builds in pvp with this trait atm. 30/30/10/0/0 S/D looks nice with this.

Prince.7198:

#2Critical strikes. Invigorating precision: You are healed for 5% of outgoing critical strike damage
Only 5%? so actually 4.5% since crit damage was nerfed by 10%? SAD TRAIT! I’ll pick executioner anyday!

Nope, crit dmg got nerved harder than 10%. ANET said our overall dmg is now reduced by 10%.

And srsly, I am happy about ferocity. Maybe it allows us to run a build without putting 30/6 points into CS. Because the stat advantage is now reduced.

With 15 in Trickery you can still jump 4 times through the bp field.

Interceptor.2653:

“without sacrificing any damage”

This is where you are wrong, though. P/D is really good for a lot of reasons, but DPS isn’t one of them. Power-based builds will always smoke you here.

Hi, sry, i didn’t made this clear. I was talking about condi dmg. I don’t need condi duration. Of course 30/30/0/0/10 signet burst does the most (burst) damage.

But srsly, i am able to kill some professions faster with this build, because i don’t have to back off. Espacially warriors, guardians and ingis (they don’t trait AR in wvw i guess).

And yeah, i was talking about wvw, since the linked build will not work in pvp.

CnD is highly telegraphed, so? I can interrupt my CnD if the other guy dodges. And even if i miss one, i don’t have the feeling that it hurts me that much, like with a d/d build.

Don’t get me wrong, i just wanted to try a condi build, because ANET thinks that power builds are too strong. After testing this build for over 15 hours now, i just can’t understand their decision. Espacially if I see so much condi builds, that I feel forced to use Lyssa runes for s/x, and use -40% condi duration food with d/d.

After over 1.8 k hours on my thief, with the nerf to power builds in mind and reading https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Pony-s-P-D-Build-15-4-AKA-The-God-of-Cheese, I decided to run a condi build for my first time. I play over 80% of my time in wvw and 10% in pvp. Every power based build I play is close to full glass, because I hate to it sacrifice damage.

Are you serious ANET? This build has so many advantages, it is unbelivable.

- I have the same access to stealth like d/d
- my armor is close to 3000
- i have more hp than 10/30/0/30/0 s/d
- without sacrificing any damage
- melees are a piece of cake (5-1-3 oh come over here, repeat)
- i can use trickery without sacrificing SA or DA (love this traitline)
- people hiding in AEO are no problem, because I have range
- positioning is so easy

I mean, come on, I can go full tank/full damage at the same time. I don’t have to balance the build around my playstile. With this build I have won every 1vs1, most 1vs2, some 1vs3 and one 1vs4. And I am new to this build. With this amount of hp/armor I feel like immortal.

I never had an easier time killing people. The only fights that went a little bit longer were against d/d eles.

I don’t complain about balacne. This build is fun, its strong and I try every 1vs3 I can find. For me it is a new and refreshing playstile, I have a good time with this.

But power builds needs a nerf? Oh, and they are going to nerf Lyssa.

Or maybe I just should play my powerbuilds more tanky.

And i tried this build in pve. It’s kitten there.

I think you have to split between pvp, pve, wvw.

For pvp SA can be a very bad traitlline, becaue with a long stealt uptime you are useless. You can argue, that you are not dying, but I think you can also log out, that prevents dying too, and some players are that useful.

In pve SA is useless in most cases expect sometimes 10 points for condi remove.

In wvw i think SA is one of the best traitlines to take outnumbered fights. While I like d/p trickery I often fail to win against 2 medium skilled players with that.

The new trait is just bad. CS has 2 powerful grandmaster traits. Nearly every single thief build uses one of them. And the new trait?

Just assume you deal 25k dmg to an enemy, to bring it down. And you have a crit chance of 60%. So 15k dmg is crit dmg, and so you have a healing of 750 hp.

The problem is, without Executioner, your target may live just a second longer. And in this second, he can deal you more than 750 dmg. Or the heal is ready or something like that.

Even in a p/p build, i dont think i would touch this.

I have the feeling that mws doesn’t count for the combo. Everytime i try this with, or without mws, and I move my mouse over the stealth icon, it says 2 secsonds. Which is between 2 and 3.

If we assume, that each hs gives you 3 seconds of stealth, and you regenerate 3 initiative in 3 seconds, you came out of stealth with the same amount of initiative, no matter how often you jumped through the field.

The ratio stealth to unstealth time changes of course.

Maybe this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

So, you can troll people wit d/p until they make a mistake. And you can kill ranger.

You should really consider deleting your target to have some control over your hs if you just use it for stealth.

2/10, i liked the first song

Hey, just have fun. I played d/p most of the time, but after i got addicted to s/d it feels boring and slow. Even d/d is more fun.

But if you like the gameplay, i cannot see any problem with d/p. The blind is really strong, so is d/p. If a new thief player joins our guild, i always suggest learning d/p first, because it is easy and strong.

Like I said, just have fun.

This is the build I am currently running, but I think there is a lot of personal choice:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAsYVlYmSOHcy9E/5Ey2jKUo4JtC0U3DuS+qKA-j0CBYfBE/DigAimGksAIzsIasVRFRjVXDT5SISFL12bFRrWKgqUGB-w

I run the standard 10/30/0/30/0. My gear is nearly complete zerk, expect 2 trinkets and my valk bow, but just because I found it.

But honestly, I think to switch all my trinkets to zerker and my armor to soldier after the patch next month.

S/D is really a lot of fun, even in wvw, it’s so fast-paced, and you really have to pay attention.
Give it a try. The few first times may be a little bit hard, because most thieves rely on stealth, and you have a bad access to it. But you will learn to use your movement to prevent damage, and that’s really great.
The next thing I have learned, is to use my shortbow more often and more effective.

Your main source of damage, is the last hit from your aa, and larcenous strike. Try to hit with them. Your bursting potential is lower, but I kill people often as fast as with d/d.

Try your build in wvw, I think it is working fine. You can handle tankier classes a lot easier, and trickery allows you to jump 4 times through blackpowder. The condi remove from SA is nice, but not necessary. You can use the -40% condi duration food, it is really working fine. You can also run this build with scholar runes, but you have to be a lot more careful.

But if you wanna give up a traitline, it should be trickery.

I cannot see how a warrior can beat a d/p thief if both are equally skilled (maybe if both have no idea what they are doing). You can really abuse the blind.

I am thankful that at least Nilgoow knows the difference between math, proofs and some calculations.