Guild Wars 2

Algreg.3629:

no, because all these examples are about actively hurting or impeding other people instead of suffering other peoples’ shortcomings if you will.

Real life constraints are acceptable to people with lives.

What if somebody gets a phone call on their emergency line? What if they have to answer the door? What if their game crashes due to an error in anets programming, or another popular vendor? Severe impatience is a personal shortcoming.

dustinharlin.8693:

I totally agree, I find it very annoying when people are always in such a hurry(in-game and real life). People need to learn to chill out and enjoy the ride rather than try to sprint right to the destination.

It’s sad that this is a great game with such a terrible community. That’s why I’m not a huge fan of free-to-play MMOs unfortunately

Indeed, I am glad I’m not the only one who realizes this.

I’ve never played an MMO requiring an entry fee before were people were collectively this impatient to the point of being stupid.

People have gotten so lazy that the ignored mobs they spawned will tear through them, yet they will attempt to do the same thing ad nauseam.

May the divines help you if you actually try anything other than the commonly run stuff, since most people lack the raw acuity to figure out anything without explicit directions and even those who know can’t be bothered to type directions to new players in coherent English.

I was young once too, but things were so incredibly abstruse compared to games today that place giant arrows in front of your face to show you where to go, that I doubt most of the gw2 playerbase would be able to handle them.

It seems people want some kind of vapid DDR game where you perform the same sequence of moves and get the same rewards, like a dog doing tricks.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

You’re lucky that you had a nice party. I usually kick pugs if they don’t show up on time for the run.

So if you just got your fifth member, everyone is expected to instantly teleport inside the instance, regardless of their starting location?

Ok, that sounds fair. The kind of fair I’d expect from somebody who is bereft of consideration, empathy or any form of common, human decency.

In fact, let’s apply that logic to everyday situations:

You’d be the guy who just cut off some other guy in a car.

You’d be the guy who just went in front of somebody else in line, even though they had been waiting there for ages.

You’d be the loud, obnoxious dillhole in the movie theatre who talks on his cell phone during the feature presentation.

The world would be a better place without that guy.

arjeidi.2690:

Here’s what I think:

People wanna get through it as quick as possible because they don’t particularly enjoy, or have much fun doing, the same thing day in and day out. They do it, sure, but probably begrudgingly because it’ll get them what they want the quickest/easiest/most efficiently.

People in general have less patience when they don’t enjoy what they’re doing (not just in games). Its a chore, because the game isn’t very fun to play over and over, and they don’t want it to take up anymore time than it already does.

Why would you do something that isn’t fun in a video game?

That really boggles the mind, given how many alternatives there are, or .. you know, you could go outside, go to a gym and work out and do a hobby that is both healthy and productive.

Waar Kijk Je Naar.8713:

Waiting is a waste of time. Why wait for the 5th player if you can kill the boss with 4?

Trying to ress people is a waste of time as well. It’s faster to let them rot. Besides if they died in the first place it’s probably not worth the effort trying to ress as they will probably die again in several seconds.

One minute is a lot of time in CoF p1 runs.

You’re right. Most people never die and need to be res’d. Your account should be deleted if you are ever killed, while your gold should be halved if you are downed.

This post comes a bit late after 500+ hours of play, but what is up?

People are so impatient now that the last CoFp1 I ran, I came exactly 1 minute late due to a slow HD from changing a couple zones (I even watched the clock), to find people having already gotten the first champion to half health.

This pervasive impatience has gotten so ridiculous that it more than often gets people killed, since they either unintentionally aggro things in their haste, or fall off platforms, or let the myriad things they’ve aggroed place enough AoEs to wipe the team.

If it’s your first time running anything and you somehow die on the way, you are kittened: people won’t go back to res you, or even start from the last WP to help out, not even if the next WP is past two legendary bosses.

Impatience when people start ignoring tactics for the second time, or going AFK for 10+ minutes at a time is understandable. What you encounter here during your run-of-the-mill CoF run, however, is just kittened.

Monsoon.2589:

By any means the most annoying and infuriating “feature” of GW2 is the asinine reasons why one must slow down to 50% speed when being attacked by NPC.

There is no logic to this besides the devs wanting the person to be forced to fight as fleeing would be annoying. It is a bad mechanic that other mmos as well use. It makes no sense and it is really annoying especially in a group when you are the only person hit with an attack an you slow down while everybody runs away with speed buffs.

Get rid of this

It’s why everybody hates Orr. The mobs there are just speed bumps there to annoy you.

Why they haven’t reduced the mob density or removed those incredibly annoying ranged snares/fears/stuns etc. is beyond me…

Before the advent of champ rewards those zones were mostly inhabited by soulkitten ts grinding mobs with MF endlessly.

Now it’s hordes of bots grinding champion mobs endlessly without MF.

Reikou.7068:

Unfortunately, in a world with unlimited wants and very limited resources, this is the only way to derive happiness.

To take away what could potentially make someone else happy.

In some contexts this would be true, in others not necessarily. I don’t think this is an optimization problem, but an implementation problem.

You could argue that it would take many man hours to implement some kind of variable to adjust the difficulty for each event, but that isn’t the case, especially since the constraints for combat in GW2 make it very easy to predict.

The telegraphed attacks are easy to predict, while other times it boils down to first order differentials. Seriously, adding another dialogue option with a copy of the same thing albeit with different parameters isn’t as monumentally difficult as they would make it out to believe.

ilr.9675:

crestpiemangler.7631:

or simply make the trash fights die more quickly, but require more skill to defeat.

One problem with this still: Berserkers > All

Another reason why they should be revised. Make damage extremely difficult to dodge, so that players will either need extreme reflexes, or some toughness.

Right now berserkers is the solution due to the tedium aspect entirely.

I love challenge, but I hate tedium and on populated servers, a bit of lag can result in a death and ridiculous wait.

I realize a lot of people avoid them, but it’s a cure for the symptom and not the disease.

The disease, in this case, is the ridiculously large HP pools of mobs and the tedious nature of fighting trash in places like Arah, CoF etc.

Exploiting the AI pathing is usually preferable to actually engaging in the core element of the game, combat. That isn’t a good thing, but it isn’t new either: people have been using this technique to avoid trash since the inception of EQ.

GW2 has definitely made PvE much more accessible for the most part and I think part of it corresponded to the 5 man limitation, relatively short content (even Arah is only half of what some of the older games’ dungeons were… if even that) and the ability to skip to the difficulty with less tedium.

I think the game ought to go one step further and let people skip entirely to the more difficult, engaging sections of the dungeon, or simply make the trash fights die more quickly, but require more skill to defeat. *Instead of being bored up to the fight with Giganticus in Arah, you should be engaged and prepared. *

Jeffrey Vaughn.1793:

That creature was put there specifically to be avoided. It’s on a long patrol path around the temple, and easy to avoid. In a similar fashion, if you stop to fight a patrolling knight, you’re likely to have another one wander in during the fight, then another, etc. Not every story step is “Destroy every enemy on the map”.

The problem is that it isn’t necessarily clear, or even desirable to somebody who simply enjoys the combat aspect of the game.

I agree with the OP, but not necessarily with respect to the story quests, but the open world events:

there are quite a few open world events that are not labeled as group events, but require groups, or skills+gear beyond the upper bound of the zone.

One such example is the escort in snowden drifts where you’re supposed to bring the quaggan ambassador to the kodan. The problem with that event is that you are faced with a mob that will kill you, in pairs, in sets of >= 3 (the jellyfish)…. in addition to that, you have extremely fast respawn times and additional aggro from neutral mobs (they aggro even if you don’t hit them).

I’ve never seen anybody solo that event and it is ALWAYS left incomplete and this is over 5+ characters having leveled in the very same area.

An example of an event that pertains to the OP is found in the southwestern kessex hills where you have to kill the risen krait: there are mob spawns there that kill you instantly and due to the myriad of stuff that the objective veterans spawn they will often not render, or you will be stunned/knocked down leaving you completely vulnerable to a one-shot.

Yet another example of an event that was either mislabeled, or never tested can be found in dredgehaunt and consists of killing multiple veterans next to turrets that have the ability to two-shot you, yet, have many times the health of an ordinary turret; the sheer effort required to do it solo means that this event is usually perpetually in motion.

There are also events (sometimes skill points) that require you to exploit the AI in order to solo them, like the northeastern most skill point in snowden drifts, which indicates that the event was mislabeled, or simply never tested.

While there are plenty of events that are quite soloable (perhaps even too easy), I’d be comfortable with stating that a good 20% of events, especially in higher tier zones, aren’t practically soloable due to spawn rates, cheap damage spikes, etc.

I can appreciate the living story and such, but it’s kind of a shame to see the original content get ignored.

Edit: another shining example of the OPs dilemma can be found in ashford plains by the champion crypt spawn. This champion has a ranged attack that can (and most likely will) one-shot you. Sometimes it’s avoidable, sometimes it doesn’t render (meaning you have no visual cue to dodge) and even sometimes the mob gets animation locked due to lag, so you have no idea what’s going to happen to you to avoid it on your first attempt.

TehPwnerer.7215:

Not baiting you into anything I’m saying you’re contradicting yourself saying that you don’t want stuff handed to you, yet you’re saying that you want free stuff for aspects of the game you never play.

It’s simple. If you want PvE stuff play some PvE. Enjoy the bumps. Last time I post here.

Thank you again for the exposure.

TehPwnerer.7215:

Yet you’re asking for a free 100% map completion on a silver platter. Ironic.

Nope. I’m asking for 1-80 over a reasonable amount of time (say 80 hours) without stepping foot outside of SPvP.

I know you’re trying to bait me into insulting you, so you can report me, but I’m not falling for it… and I really appreciate the bumps

Tuomir.1830:

I hunt down veteran karka as a hobby. I can assure you, it’s not pressing one button. If you don’t find challenge in PvE, you aren’t looking for it (though I’d like there to be many, many more interesting and challenging enemies in PvE).

And another thing, if PvE is so easy, why don’t you do it? Because you enjoy PvP more? Well then play PvP. I play both and it’s never bothered me that they are separate.

I don’t enjoy things that are easy and handed to me on a silver platter provided I do boring, tedious things ad nauseam.

Not to mention that this discussion is mostly about the leveling experience… aka repeating the same trivial content again, or buying a bunch of mats from the TP, clicking a few buttons and going AFK.

TehPwnerer.7215:

All this time you’re sitting here begging Anet to give you things you didn’t earn can be spent in game earning them.

It’s a game, not a job. I play a game to have fun. You shouldn’t have to “earn” anything if it involves something a toddler could do.

The whole point of a game is having some kind of challenge to it. Rewarding people for doing things that aren’t fun in a game is simply stupid. It’s like asking somebody to count out loud to 5 trillion and awarding him 100 dollars for it.

TehPwnerer.7215:

Ok cool. Well then enjoy your 0% map completion. Don’t worry it’s super easy to get.

Yeah 100% required two PhDs in the natural sciences and ESL twitch reflexes to obtain, I’m sure.

TehPwnerer.7215:

So because you find sPvP more challenging than other aspects of your game (your opinion not a fact) you feel like you should get map completion? I’m rank 20 in PvP and have 100% map completion. Should I be boosted to Rank 60 because I play tons more PvE than PvP?

No.

It’s fact. Prove to me that somehow pressing 1 is more challenging than defeating human opponents in a PvP arena.

Oh.. that’s right.. the most challenging aspect of PvE is placing marks/aoe circles, that aren’t even time constrained since it’s mostly static with little movement outside of dungeons.

You’re right. You shouldn’t get boosted in PvP rank, because the open world renown hearts/skill challenges aren’t challenging at all, but tedious.

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

Okie doke, so I have over 3k hours of almost exclusively wvw, and I don’t afk. I deserve 5-6 legendries then by your logic.

Edit: I should also be rank 50-60 in spvp for the work I’ve done.

If you say so.

Glad you find WvW challenging.. and I actually agree that you deserve a legendary.

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

Fortunately levels don’t apply to spvp! so you never need to pve, ever!

…. you don’t say …

WhiteAndMilky.2514:

Nope, bad idea. Rewards for what you play. Not what you don’t play.

If what you play is more challenging than the other content in the game, then it should reward you commensurately for it.

The open world PvE in this game, without the stunning visuals, i.e. exploration, is bad. Objectively. The mob AI and single button rotations are not what GW2 is known for. It wasn’t even what GW1 was known for.

Do you think a lot of people would play LoL if you were forced to play against bots exclusively until level 30?

Of course not.

Wallace MacBix.2089:

Just to play devil’s advocate here. If playing PvP would give me PvE experience, why shouldn’t PvE (lets just say lvls or even exp for ease) give me glory. Why can’t I be rank 30, just from running around PvE a lot? (Also, I know this doesn’t helps much, but we did get an instant lvl 20 consumable from the 5k achievement point chest, so that does help cut down some of the time on a new alt)

I thought PvP was to be completely separate to keep things balanced and let anyone who buys the game today compete competitively with someone who bought the game a year ago. In WvW you can level yourself, and use your PvE gear but that was meant to include such differences.

It’s rather simple: PvP is always more difficult than PvE, especially in this game where nothing in the open world is even remotely challenging for the player.

That’s why every other game with instanced battlegrounds awards exp for doing well, or even just participating in PvP.

Open world, on the other hand, does nothing to prepare you for PvP.

That’s why people who have run through the game multiple times wish to go a different route.

Progression and balance have nothing to do with each other really, not to mention that SPvP and PvE converge to different values entirely…

Every other game has this. It seems like an incredible waste of resources to keep SPvP an entirely disparate entity and it would let people level things they perhaps enjoy in SPvP, but not in the open world.

This especially holds true when you’re leveling your 3rd alt and would like a break from all of the stuff you’ve done before, even crafting.

I know GW1 didn’t have this per se, but GW1 didn’t have WvW either ,or JP, or three degrees of freedom.

So ironic seeing people claim that OS is some kind of escape from WvW, when some of the best PvP experience I had was there.

With all of the traps and different tactics people can and will use against you, it is more strategy oriented than the actual WvW of this game.

Alliances are more often forged and individual player skill means a whole lot more, because you can’t hide behind a zerg as almost everyone else does in WvW.

Taking away badges from this JP will essentially kill it and drive the PvP players away entirely. I hope the developers don’t listen to the WvW players who are insecure about their inability to succeed at JP.

Pure Heart.1456:

emikochan.8504:

Esplen.3940:

emikochan.8504:

but my NA friends play on the EU server with me fine… T_T I don’t see why we can’t guest to NA servers when na players can home on eu servers without issue.

That’s because their characters are saved on the EU data center. It doesn’t matter where the players are it matters where the character data is.

the data is still travelling from the servers in eu to na, can someone that understands networking explain why this is insurmountable?

The issue is not ‘insurmountable’. It could be done, more or less “easily” in fact.
However, the issue is whether it is desirable, and it’s not desirable.
The reason is, the length of the route the data would need to travel would increase a great deal, and this would translate into lag.

Players in EU or Players in NA but on EU Server
EU Players <—> EU Server <—> NA Players

Players in EU or Players in NA but each player on different server
EU Players <—> EU Server <—> NA Server <—> NA Players

You can see the route is longer when you allow players on different servers to play with one another = more lag.

So why aren’t EU players saved to the NA data center implying symmetry in the relationship you proposed?

Randulf.7614:

Dailies are an excellent addition to mmo’s in my opinion – they allow players, particularly casually minded players, to obtain items at a pace more suited to their needs without any form of grind whatsoever (there is no grind in the current dailys at all, not even slightly).

Dailys like the GW2 ones work because the reward you with things which you don’t need to progress. The argument of laurels for ascended is moot since ascended provides virtually nil advantage in open world play.

Forcing is the wrong word. Encouraging is a better one. MMO’s need people logging in. No matter how strong the content can be, MMO’s need little gimmicks like these to keep people logging in to their game – that’s why they exist and why they work so well

When you’re time-gating by the day and not by the week, you’re screwing over people with lives, the very people you’re trying to get to stick with the game in the first place.

One thing you’ve conveniently ignored is the fact that for some games dailies roll over into the next day if some of the objectives have been completed with the option of forfeiting it for a new daily.

GW2 does not give players this luxury. There really is no reason to have the current system other than artificially boost player numbers by cheap psychological tactics in lieu of quality content.

What’s that thing where people tell other people something that is grossly exaggerated, misleading, or outright false in order to maximize revenue?

It starts with an M and ends with a G… kitten I can’t remember what it’s called.

Namica.2951:

As a player coming from WoW, I can safely say that the amount of CC in the game has been hurting it for years now, and the huge button bloat has done nothing much more than lead to an environment when you have abunch of button that are just there for space filler that don’t really do much. This is especially true for Druid and Hunter, oddly enough, who have a great deal of abilities that could all just be bound to one button if not for GCD, and can definitely be bound into a cast sequence because they’re just so danged use and forget.

That is simply not true.

Take the feral druid:

Shapeshift travelform => 1 key
Shapeshift normal form => heal => 1 key
Shapeshift normal form => root => 1 key
" "=> cyclone => 1 key
Two situational openers for cat => 2 keys
Two situational builders for feral cat => >= 2 keys
Three situational finishers for feral cat => >= 3 keys
Bear form stun => 1 key
Bear form rotations etc. (reduced for argument) => 1 key
Feral situational long cooldowns corresponding to forms => >= 2 keys
Normal situational long cooldowns => >= 1 key

I’ve actually omitted a lot of stuff for the sake of argument including auto-attack. So that’s a very, very, very bare minimum of 16 unique bindings.

Applying the same analysis to a Necro in GW2:

Staff => 4xdamage + 1 fear reduces to 2 disjoint logical key mappings if there were macroing, since a decent necro will either apply all in a short time frame, or just 5 to chain fear with DS.

Main+off => using a dagger (the more favorable weapon, or one would be omitted due to it being part of the rotation) 4 disjoint keys

DS => 3 essentially disjoint keys

I generally use sigil of the locust due to how terribly slow everything in this game is, but for sake of argument, assuming a very structured group in PvP, let’s just add all 4+1 elite skill and dodge: 6 disjoint keys

15 vs. 16 might not seem like a big difference, but another aspect of this game is the relatively long cooldowns associated with the utility, elite and healing skills (along with off -hand weapon).

While you might have to use those utility skills in specific situations, if you take an interval where nothing but skills with <= 30 second cooldowns are available, you’re short at least another 7 keys, while with feral you’re merely down 3 keys.

Not to mention that the base damage rotation for the feral druid is a bare minimum of 4+ keys ignoring auto-attack, requires positioning behind the target etc., so while you’re juggling a slightly greater number of cooldowns and the corresponding resource management to use them (although this arguably corresponds to dodge and healing skill management in GW2) you have a lot more to execute.

In the former analysis I also very conveniently ignored some of the teleport skills, pet CC skills and other skills that are used rarely, but still come up in competitive play (e.g. innervate) along with macros that one would have that are situational corresponding to particular sequences thereof.

So even from a macro point of view, WoW in PvP with reduced bindings is still substantially more complex.

Treeline.3865:

1: Park toon at end of JP
2: Log in once a day
3: ???
4: Level 80, yay!

Thanks for not reading my post at all. Maybe that’s the reason why people like you only make terse, insipid posts that are impossible not to read.

I am leveling my nth toon, after having deleted my fair share and the entire grind is wearing on me.

To be honest, even when I had my first character hit 80 it wasn’t necessarily a satisfying journey 100% of the time: renown hearts are mostly the same beast, save a minor few nuances here and there to maximize gain.

So…. after nearly 450 hours, I can safely say that the one thing that hasn’t worn on me yet, even though I have pretty much done them all except for the lame salvager one in Malchors Leap, is JP.

I realize that with the current implementation of JP that this isn’t possible; people would just find a mesmer and the grinding would commence, but perhaps in future updates it would be interesting to see instanced versions of current jps, or even new ones with “cheating” skills disabled and HUGE exp rewards at the end.

Not to bash the game for one of its inherent designs, but the PvE combat is incredibly boring, especially when it’s on soloable mobs.

Sure it’s fun to sit in Kryta all day and watch the champ events unfold as I teleport from waypoint to waypoint.. or grind my 20ish mobs for a renown heart, but it is pretty kitten boring.

Gehenna.3625:

post.

I agree with every word. If only SPvP were tied into leveling, or JP.. or something other than the mindless grinding disguised as a heart.

For most classes there are only so many ways to skin a cat with 10+5 skills (or effectively less in active use).

There is also a lack of resources to manage besides dodge. There is also not much in terms of CC and CC breaking abilities compared to some of the older games like EQ, WoW and others that actually demanded you use close to 20-30 unique skills per fight in structured PvP.

If you take the most complex class in WoW, the druid, you cannot map it to anything in GW2; a class with that kind of stance, resource and cooldown management simply does not exist in GW2.

People would often disparage the hunter class in WoW due to its ease of simplicity for rotations, but even hunters had far more skills in active use in PvP than even a competent Engineer/Elementalist in GW2… and sadly the most trivial PvE one-button rotations are the norm in GW2.

I honestly think that the simplistic combat in GW2 due to the severe skill restrictions was intentional for the sake of developer balancing ease. In fact, the entire latency based system (the server check for each of your actions) reeks of e-sports.

TLDR: Complexity found in other games traded off for ease of balancing for competitive PvP.

gaspara.4079:

I never mentioned anything about changing/removing the cap I was putting in a possibility that it could in fact be bandwidth related like ArenaNet told us it was.

Also can you really get higher than 25 stacks on a mob using epidemic? If so, then that was poor planning. If not then it is subject to the restriction and working as everything else, so I don;t understand your point.

They never said it was a problem of the server bandwidth maxing out. I believe they said it was an issue with causing major lag and rubber-banding for low bandwidth users, which could also effect details returned to the server.

No. You can, however, get 25 stacks on multiple mobs by multiple people with ease (obviously necromancer would be easiest with the low cooldown AoE blood from staff along with scepter + epidemic), contradicting the claim that somehow multiple people seeing so many ticks at once would cause such issues, since that is their entire argument.

gaspara.4079:

As I am also a software engineer hear out this possibility. To prevent user lag, all conditions are managed on the server but reporting continuously to the client every detail regarding the conditions of the object the user has targeted. Therefore for each condition stack on the targeted mob you are sending back to the client a full detailed object for every single server tick.

While this seems like a wonderfully accurate system it requires sending multiple extra objects of data to to the user every millisecond which if left uncapped could add up to ridiculous amounts.

Imagine if you got to 500 bleed stacks on a boss, depending on the size of the condition objects they use and how they are serialized we could be talking a ton of bandwidth use purely for those conditions.

Now if this is expanded to sending complete details for every entity in the viewable area that could get astronomical.

Firstly, I never asked for removal of the cap. I merely asked for an extension.

Secondly, not every tick of the DoT is sent from the server to the client and even if it were the case, then by their very reasoning epidemic wouldn’t even be a viable ability as it too would have to be restricted to the required 25 stacks.

Fill a single instance full of necromancers with multiple high hp mobs (let’s say >= 4) with 25 stacks each. Since this, by their own reasoning, should theoretically require more bandwidth than the server currently possesses they had better remove epidemic from the game.

There are so many counterexamples you can find to their ridiculous claim that it’s a bandwidth issue that it boggles the mind.

Dresden.1736:

The bandwidth has NOTHING to do with this. The conditions are still being sent to and processed by the server, and the server is sending the output back to the clients. Literally nothing is lost in packet exchange as you can see based on the fact that all the player-applied conditions show on enemies, even if they don’t all apply.

The issue is supposedly the CPUs aren’t strong enough to continuously calculate all the incoming conditions. To this, I call BULL****! My development SQL server, which is over 7 years old and about 10 times slower than my production server, has no problem calculating millions of transactions per second. And if it started slowing down, I’d just add another rack to it. Racks are cheap as dirt, and they could easily triple their performance for the cost of just one of these temp-content dev’s annual salary.

The issue is that they just don’t care enough to do so. They don’t care that their stinginess is undermining one of the most core components of their game and literally makes certain builds/professions completely useless. They care about the bottom dollar. It’s as simple as that.

Well good to see that I’m not the only human being left on these forums.

Amazing how half of the time people can’t even be bothered to read the small paragraphs I wrote, thinking I asked for “unlimited” conditions when I merely suggested raising the cap.

When the community is collectively that vapid, I don’t see any problem with the way they are proceeding. I hope they purchase everything on the cash shop twice fold. Milk them for all they’re worth.

Let it be a lottery tax on a different kind of ignorance. My biggest issue is that it’s not stinginess, but sheer laziness: they can’t be arsed to change that property for mobs, so they make up excuses for not doing so in lieu of solving the issue … and no, it doesn’t require additional hardware.

ArchonWing.9480:

In large fights, it only exists in name.

Those fights are clearly done clientside, since GW2 servers are too fragile to handle more than 25 dots on a single mob at a time.

Deamhan.9538:

Sounds to me that they are sending unnecessary information.

You apply that 10s bleed every 2 seconds and you can stack up to 5 before the first one falls off. Each time a condition falls off, it sounds to me that it is sending data to each client when it shouldn’t have to. Each time a stack is applied, the info is sent to each client but beyond that, it can/should be handles client side. The time remaining of each stack, the dmg ticks, mob health, stacks falling off, etc. should be handled client side.

Hmm, I think I know. If you kite a mob around, it’s easy to see that there is a 1 second update delay to the mobs pathing. The server could be sending all information pertaining to the mob every second. Not just who has aggro and where it’s gonna move for the next second but health remaining, conditions applied, stacks, time left on each one. Then yeah, that would certainly make it a bandwidth monster.

Kind of blows me away that WvW exists.

Xar.6185:

So long story short, they are aware that the current method is not the best.
How long it takes them to find a solution, and an individuals reaction to that amount of time, is up to them I guess.

Indeed. That’s simply not my flavor of kool-aid.

kiba.2768:

the reactions people have(mostly negative) are humorous. that was much was to be expected anyway.

you’d be surprised for every person with a legend that you bash as having no life IRL or cash to gold, sucks in pvp/w3 you’ll find someone with a legend that does not suck in pvp/w3, did not use their cc and has a healthy game to IRL balance.

the amount of trolling and negativity is so potent here. but again, that is to be expected due to our relations and how the internet provides that shielding called anonymity.

would most of you walk up to someone with a 8000USD suit and tell them to their face they suck in any aspect IRL because they have such(in the owner’s opinion because beauty is subjective) a nice shiny material object that it must have taken so much of their real life time to obtain it?

i wonder at how many of you who responded negatively(read: not neutral) would face to face insult someone. highly doubt it. ah the luxuries the internet provides and the resultant degradation of interpersonal relationships…

You don’t respect someone for wearing an 8000 Euro/dollar suit either, or being rich, unless they’re willing to part with their money for you personally.

You see, most of the world lives in poverty and to them you’re just a walking suit with a full wallet.

Deamhan.9538:

Each and every time a skill is used and an effect or change occurs to the mob, information is going to be sent. Condition stacking will be no more bandwidth demanding than auto attacking.

He is claiming that for every tick of damage dealt to a mob from a dot after application that that information is sent by the server to the client, so that dots are more bandwidth intensive than auto-attacks due to the fact that they deal damage in smaller intervals.

The curious thing about that claim, however, is that I have attacked mobs, seen the DoT tick, no damage register on the health bar for a while due to server lag and finally saw a spike in the targets health, which sort of implies what you and I have been arguing.

locoman.1974:

]But those stacks need only to be communicated to the clients of whoever has the enemy targetted, not the case on (for example) world bosses where you can easily have 100+ people targetting the same enemy at the same time.

Once again, you can have 100+ stacks over many different mobs and have the maximum number of people in an instance standing in the same spot, each using their own set of DoTs, which occurs quite frequently in WvW.

Again, if that were the case, then why the cap in 5 mans? … Why am I even arguing something so incredibly obvious?

WvW is the clear contradiction.

ArchonWing.9480:

I rolled my eyes too when reading that. In any case, it wasn’t well planned and they don’t know what to do. Meanwhile, 60 people in berserker gear will do tons of more damage, but condition people… nope screw them.

I miss the days when people could be upfront with you and didn’t have to socially engineer a desired result….. well .. at least I miss when it was absent from my favorite hobby.

Maybe it’s the old bait and switch to make people grind for a different set of gear to make the content last longer.

Give my necro a 2h axe, pretty please with a cherry on top

locoman.1974:

AFAIK it’s not the server power that made the condition cap necessary, it’s the bandwith that’s limiting it because of the amount of data that the servers needs to receive and communicate with the clients on each tick of conditions, specially on the last leg (meaning between your ISP and your computer), which is completely out of control of Anet considering that they have to make the game playable across a wide range of connection speeds and latency.

Let’s assume that were true. Then why is it possible to concomitantly apply more than 25 conditions to separate mobs, e.g. through epidemic? It would have to use the same bandwidth, something that they are claiming is impossible for a single mob.

ArchonWing.9480:

Supposedly there’s technical limitations due to having to keep track of each stack on everyone, but reality suggests that 25 stacks was too easy to reach.

I just don’t think this was well planned.

It’s really insulting when I read that this is some kind of technical limitation, when WvW is a technical marvel by itself and a single PvE world boss is like the logarithm of the complexity thereof.

They ought to just be honest and say: “we want more spec diversity.” Ok, that’s fine, but if you’re going to do that in such a fashion, you have to make sure that you’re not excluding a spec entirely by default as the expected number of players rises.

This isn’t such a difficult problem to solve either. Increasing the cap to 50 for world bosses would not fundamentally change the game.

lordkrall.7241:

crestpiemangler.7631:

That very same process is used for every attack in the game. I guess people should stop using abilities to decrease server load then.

And yet the vast majorities of those attacks don’t happen several times within a second, which conditions does.

That is done serverside, not client side, since you cease to affect anything after the application.

Vol.5241:

This has been argued since release.

Just cause it seems simple doesnt’ mean it isn’t. I’m not a programmer, and I don’t think you are either, but consider that the servers have to keep in consideration the
a.) type of condition
b.) duration of condition with each stack
c.) The dmg tick of each condition

And then take all the above and multiply it by the number of players applying it on a single boss, or any other group of high-HP mobs?

That’s massive lag.

Those calculations are done server side and are trivial to make. I don’t think you understand how powerful a modern CPU really is compared to a calculator.

What do you define by a programmer? Somebody who has programmed in an OOP language? I’m pretty sure most people on this forum fall into that category.

lordkrall.7241:

crestpiemangler.7631:

LOL what? Are you serious? You’re telling me that somehow an action that is determined after no less than half a second, that doesn’t have the ability to crit (and thus doesn’t require any additional simulation server side) is somehow more encumbering than anything else with a short cooldown ability that can crit and requires the same number of calculations for everything else?

The thing is that every single stack requires data to be sent to and from the server, and for every thing sent the load increases and increasing the load even more is most likely not advisable.

That very same process is used for every attack in the game. I guess people should stop using abilities to decrease server load then.

ccspokai.6941:

i built 3 legendaries
never buy gold using cash
never mystic forge , i bought 3 precursor
gather all the mats
gather all karma
1000 hours of it

and yea i also do sPvP and tPvP
feel free to challenge

You had better put that on your resume. I am sure it will get you that 6 figure job you have always dreamed of, along with a PhD, medal of honor, knighting, Nobel Prize and Fields Medal…. not to mention a purple heart for having played the same game for so many hours.

You definitely have my utmost respect for pushing the same buttons in the same sequence for over 1000 hours of your life. You’re a god among men.

Vol.5241:

This has been argued since release.

AFAIK it’s possible to increase stacks but the bandwidth issues would cause massive lag.

So which is better? Have everyone suffer because of your condition build? Or just have you suffer because of your condition build? I’d take the former. Just move off a condition build.

LOL what? Are you serious? You’re telling me that somehow an action that is determined after no less than half a second, that doesn’t have the ability to crit (and thus doesn’t require any additional simulation server side) is somehow more encumbering than anything else with a short cooldown ability that can crit and requires the same number of calculations for everything else?