Guild Wars 2

Also to point out to Vlad — these guys aren’t your usual sellers. They sell paths on demand. I think it’s fair to charge a premium for that ;-)

Andred.1087:

dlonie.6547:

Is it tin foil hat time, or does this make sense to anyone else? It feels stupidly obvious to me.

What makes sense is they said quite clearly they are not currently working on more dungeons, as the large majority of players will never do them. They also said they are working on expansion-sized content, and that only a small portion of the dev team is working on Living Story.

Do you have a link? I don’t think I’ve seen anything about that before (the expansion bit, not the dungeons-are-dead bit ;-)). If it’s the old link I’m thinking of, I had the impression that the “expansion-sized-content” ended up referring to Dry Top :-/

You don’t have to believe anything the devs say, but do they really have a reason to weave some elaborate lie and deceive all of us into continuing to play a no-subscription game against our wills?

You’re right. They have said they aren’t going to be adding more dungeon, for some reason I’m just clinging to this hope that they’ll change their minds now that they seem to be listening a little more.

Ugh, I need to go play that this weekend. I got sucked into that thread about endgame for long enough. For some reason, this little bit of hope I have for PvE just won’t die…

They’re the most useful thing ever in Arah. sb thief is OP in mob skips, even without using stealth =)

I mostly use them for skips and swap them out before combat, but there are instances where teleports are useful while fighting:

• Most are stunbreakers, so you can use them to not only get back on your feet, but out of the way for a damaging attack.
• If you’re meleeing lupi and have to worry about getting domed, they’re lifesavers.
• Good for many other large AoE attacks. Using lupi again as an example, the AoE lifesteal and AoE boogerblasts are super helpful.
• Guardian sword 2 is useful in combat. Sword is excellent DPS so there’s good reason to have it equipped, and it’s a fantastic gap closer. A thief’s stealing ability is good for the same reasons.

But yeah, they’re only situationally useful for PvE combat. If you’re doing story instances or open world, you’ll never have a real compelling reason to use them, other than occasional mobility boosts while running really far.

Mizenhauer.6713:

Those guild puzzles look perfect for an endgame ‘test’. At least in layout, they are pretty grand. I think part of the problem is that people assume endgame means gear treadmill. While that’s the norm elsewhere, I cannot imagine that it’s irreplaceable. Gw2 rewards you with poo, always. I don’t see why this would be any different in an endgame arena. The lack of this kind of content is kind of odd, at least to me and my friends (who left long ago and make fun of my mmo of choice). But it is what it is. Instanced content no longer seems to be anet’s strog suit, which is a surprising departure from gw1. Then again, open world content doesn’t seem to be their strong suit either. But I still have fun. Complaining about endgame is actually pretty endgame.

Exactly, it’s not the gear treadmill we want, it the content that comes with it.

PvF does seem to be a popular choice for endgame these days. Lately I’ve been pretty fond of saying that “GW2 endgame is getting bored, uninstalling the game, and complaining on the forums.” ;-)

Wolfheart.1938:

I think OP didn’t intend this thread to be about all endgame content but only about dungeon content because that is what he likes the most. Is that correct dlonie?

Well, OP’s original post is gone, but it’s quoted in Gaile’s redpost. It was about all kinds of content.

Zodiaci.3218:

I’d sincerely like to know where this rumor originated. No endgame? Is a new story campaign, giant map (and completion), crafting, a new set of dungeons, obtaining legendary weapons, and 3 new areas of the map opening up just not enough for you?
Really, where did this originate?

It was just that the “a set of new dungeons” bit grabbed folks’ attention.

rfdarko.4639:

It’s easy to tear down fallacious arguments, to ridicule them. (Like the post Gaile highlighted).

If we care to be constructive, we shouldn’t just leave it at that. We should try to understand why people feel there is no endgame, when there is factual evidence to the contrary. Why are people who loved this game – theory crafted and strategized and competed for record dungeon times in this game- why are those the people leaving?

There is a lot of frustration fueled exaggeration that goes on. And yes, people need to take responsibility for the way they argue. But to take on the most poorly worded and hyperbolic statements at face value, and not go on to address the valid criticism behind that negative sentiment, is cheap. If we want to be literal, there has been no new 5-man tuned content for 10 months, and from what we’ve been told there will be nothing more in the near future. I think that is enough to warrant concern if you are a dedicated pve player.

….wanna go grab a beer or something? We need more people on here like you.

Vayne.8563:

Lissaere.7096:

Vayne.8563:

Yet the game listed achievements for Fractals for the longest time under the category dungeon. So you should listen to the game. The game is telling you Fractals are a dungeon. Or it was. Not in game right not to check if it’s still true. But it’s been true before the recent patch for the longest time.

Currently it’s listed under general so not true anymore.

Doesn’t work that way. They made it, and listed it as a dungeon and sub categories got taken off in the reorganization.

That means you’re saying it was a dungeon a month ago, but isn’t a dungeon now. That doesn’t wash. Clearly Anet considers it a dungeon, but a different type of dungeon than the original dungeons.

Guys, don’t get too hung up on the semantics here. A UI designer did not label any of those things intending to provide a definitive labeling of the content :-P

It’s a matter of opinion. You can define a dungeon as a single PvE instance, or as a set of story + explorable paths, as the term is frequently used in GW2. It’s up to you, words are just words.

Let’s try to stay focused on the point of this discussion: Is the amount of post-launch content sufficient?

And if someone with a red tag would care to enter this discussion that their customers are clearly concerned about, does ArenaNet intend to adjust the rate at which new content is released?

Zodiaci.3218:

Thank you for providing an actual complaint somewhere at least slightly within this category. While I’ve said before that “Just because you’ve done it, doesn’t mean it isn’t there”, I didn’t mean that adding more endgame for EXPERIENCED players would hurt the game, I was simply saying, for inexp. players, there’s plenty to go around.

I’m a bit confused — I don’t think it’s the inexp players who are complaining about endgame.

People are just being abrupt and glib when they say “no endgame.” They don’t actually believe that this game has 0 endgame content. We’re talking about the future of the game, meaning, once you finish what’s there, will there be more?

Thank you for being one of the only sober/non-enraged people here.

If anyone’s going to actually listen and not shut down out of defensiveness, it’s what we need to be doing. I wish more people would be like that so we weren’t all lumped into the “toxic minority” category.

But for two years we’ve been screaming a brick wall that gave us no answers or clues: “Will there be more of this content?” Some of us are still bitter at being neglected, paying customers of this company and get a little irate about it.

Zodiaci.3218:

P.S. If you are this bored of the actual game, then why are you going on a website that you do a kitten ton of reading related to the game on? That makes no sense.

I answered this already, but there is a wall of text to sift through:

Things seem to be shifting at ArenaNet in the last month or so. They seem to have realized that there is a disconnect between their players and the direction the game has been moving. They’ve admitted to communication problems and are making a visible effort to listen and respond more.

I have a glimmer of hope that they’ll listen and realize that, while QoL, LS, and NPE are good and all, there’s not enough new content being added to the game to make a lot of us want to stay. Some people are ok with the amount of new content and I’m really happy for them. Personally, I’m tired of seeing my friends leave, and doing the content I enjoy (dungeons) for the 100th time, hoping they’ll give us some new ones.

I have a slight bit of hope that they’ll come on and say “*We’ve heard you all, you want more challenging PvE content after completing the story. We’ve reassembled the dungeon team, and you can expect a new set of story and explorable dungeons is on the way!”

That hope is enough to make me keep a browser tab open to the forums and occasionally share my perspective. It’s just not enough to make me log in and watch more people leave.

Just my perspective.

Yes, I know, “It’s been there” isn’t really helping my case… but… IT HAS!
IT’S BEEN THERE SINCE LAUNCH!

This is kind of the whole point. With a few exceptions, most of the things to do in the game have been there since launch. I played through them, I like them, I want more of them. I stuck around for two years because I figured, “it’s an MMO, they’ll expand their content to retain players, that’s their whole business model!” Instead, we get a few additions early on, then nothing for a year, and an announcement of nothing in the near future.

It’s not the GAME’S fault that you got through it all, “There is none” and “I finished it.” are completely different things.

It’s no one’s fault, we’re just trying to get a feel of what to expect. We have gone through all of it that’s interesting to us, now we want to know whether we should stick around. It really sounds like they won’t be focusing on making challenging PvE content anymore. I’d just like to know if this really is the case, because after waiting one year already, I’m feeling cheated.

Since he’s not here to do it himself… ;-)

http://i.imgur.com/Oxra9sj.jpg

@Don See my inb4 (those things never work Q_Q). Just run a different dungeon on that day.

I think it’d be reasonable and lessen the complaints in here. Maybe a few of the flocking masses would try dungeons, enjoy them, and then get good and PUG with you down the road. That is, if you manage to stick around long enough without getting bored and leaving (good luck :-/)

So folks…how much gold would HotW p3 need to be to make it worth your while?

Considering I’d rather run all paths of Arah than set foot in HotW, I’ll open with 10g50s :-)

That might not be fair, “running all paths of Arah” is about the only thing with any appeal for me anymore :-/

Miku Lawrence.6329:

You got your totally new dungeons aka fractals so stop complaining ~

Quoted “for great wisdom!”

It’s not that she said it that’s bothering me.

It’s that this is how they appear to be treating it. Like clicking through LS “epsiodes” counts as endgame.

They admitted it: they shut down PvP, WvW, and dungeons and put all of the responsibilities for these areas onto one team. Also threw skill balance in for them to take care of. The team is called the “Competitive Team” for christsake. It sure doesn’t sound like they were originally supposed to be responsible for all of that. Regina even said: all they have resources for are bugfixes.

The appearance is that they had a lot of devs working to build all sorts of content for a big launch. After that, they laid them off (Hrouda sounded pretty surprised…) and squished all of these different areas on to one team to maintain them and make an easy living off of serving up LS only.

Is it tin foil hat time, or does this make sense to anyone else? It feels stupidly obvious to me.

Teon.5168:

I don’t believe that GW2 was ever intended to cater to the hard core crowd

Sadly, I agree. It seems they viewed the content we enjoy as mistakes and just put them on life-support.

This is true. But that has nothing to do with PvE group play, which you emphasized in your post above, and I subsequently agreed with.

Are you suggesting that dungeon solo feasibility should be used for balancing builds? :-P

Well, that’s HotW, man. Seriously. Nobody likes that dungeon >.>

I actually like the idea. IIRC they did that a while back where a particular dungeon was in the daily, and it seem to make everyone flock to those dungeons and I had some really fun, laid-back groups. I’d like to see more of that.

inb4 BUT THE KAZULS!!! that would just be a good day for folks who are picky about their groups to avoid that particular dungeon.

Effort? Screw that bro.

This is GW2. Just give me my achievements already.

rfdarko.4639:

It’s incorrect to say there have been no new dungeons since launch. And when you argue from a hyperbole, people are going to focus on that and tear it apart. So let’s stick to facts.

About 2 months after gw2’s launch, fractals of the mists were added. Whether or not you want to call it a dungeon, it fills the roll of challenging instanced 5 man content with unique skin rewards. This was an excellent addition, and made me incredibly excited about the direction endgame pve was headed.

Then the living story began. Over the course of 2013, 3 new dungeon paths were added. 2 were temporary, but they were cannibalized into fractal shards. Most of the dungeon content added during that year still exists.

Towards the end of the year, however, there were a number of decisions that soured the dungeon community. The biggest disappointment arguably was the fractured patch, which did not open up any higher tiers and reset personal level progression. Despite this, hard core groups rushed to the new 50 to compete for spots on the announced fractal leaderboard. This leaderboard still does not exist. The mistlock instabilities, which were touted as the reason for the overhaul, proved to be an annoyance at best and progress preventing at worse when certain instabilities and shards were combined. Few if any instabilities provided interesting, tatics changing challenges.

The second blow was the aetherpath, which promised to be permanent, but also replaced an existing dungeon path. We found out that forward-up would be deleted less then 24 hours before the patch went live, from a tangential remark in a dev post on a minor sub forum. This really soured the reception of the new path, which combined with some other problematic design decisions (I have a post about here) has made it one of the least popular dungeons paths.

Fast forward to 2014, through the conclusion of season one and the first chapter of season 2. So far, we have seen no new dungeon content. In a recent interview from a developer, we also learned that there are no new paths currently in the pipeline.

What we have here is a decline in focus on 5-man content, and seemingly a loss in connection with the desires of the dungeon community. We went from the promissing addition of fractals a mere 2 months into the games launch, to 2 good but temporary new dungeon paths, to 2 controversial reworks of existing content, to a 9 month dry spell with nothing to look forward to.

This post was a lot longer then I originally intended, but I don’t want the legitimate frustrations of dedicated pve players to be lost in exaggeration and hyperbole. Dungeon runners aren’t leaving for no reason, the trend is there and this past year has been a huge disappointment.

<3

This guy gets it.

Well put, respectful, and a reasoned tone. Thank you.

We might even stay if there was any hope on the horizon. Hell, that hope kept me logging in for at least 8 months by now after the majority of my friends left for FFXIV because they (correctly, it appears) lost faith in ever seeing more challenging dungeon content.

But after the announcement that there was nothing even in the works? Why would I even bother logging in now? It’s a dead end. I’m only on the forums because I have a sliver of hope that ArenaNet might catch on to do something to keep vets from leaving.

Hi folks, just wanted to pop into summarize the point of my earlier posts, especially with the addition of a red post here:

Define FotM shards as individual dungeons. Fine, it really doesn’t matter.

Claim and advertise that there are 45 of them in game. No problem.

Feel free to define the broad range of instanced content in the game under the term “dungeons”.

But you must admit that then there is a wide variety of quality and entertainment value in the ‘dungeons’ that create this menagerie of instanced content.

The point of the “there are no dungeons” complaint you keep hearing is that when players say they want more dungeons, they don’t mean more FotM shards. They mean dungeons like TA, AC, Arah…let’s call them “dungeon systems” since after all, they consist of multiple paths.

A new:

• Location on a map that possibly ties in with lore and has an interesting representation of the style of the map.
• Consistently themed collection of a story path and 3-4 explorable paths featuring multiple boss encounters.
• A reward system consistent with the other “dungeon systems” (non-RNG, tokens + gold)
• New armors and weapon skins unlockable through tokens.

I’ve heard it frequently said that people would be happiest with one new Arah-style dungeon system per year. Whether or not every detail of this wish is feasible, it gives a feel for what type of new content they are looking for.

These are the dungeons that players of this game refer to when they just say “dungeons”. ACp1 is not considered a separate dungeon from ACp2, they are considered to be two paths of the same dungeon. Similarly, FotM shards are not viewed as individual dungeons in colloquial usage of the term; they are one-quarter of a fractal run, which is on par with a single dungeon path.

Rather than argue the meaning of our words in order to justify missing the point completely, try to understand what we’re saying. Players are saying that 5 new boss encounters in two years is not enough to keep us from getting bored and leaving the game. Other players don’t have to agree and they are welcome to stay and enjoy the aspects of the game that they enjoy. But are we not free to share our problems with the game in hopes of improving it?

Most of my guild (not even one of those “toxic” speedclear guilds, BTW, but a casual teaching guild for PHIWs) has quit and gone to other games out of boredom. Many of the regulars on the dungeon forums, including the non-toxic ones (yes, they exist!) have vanished over the last few months. I can’t even bring myself to log in more than about once a month because there is nothing left that interests me.

I wish these conversations would end up discussing possibilities and attempting reaching an understanding more often, instead of just shutting down into a battle between the white knights and the toxic elitists. We’re trying to get you to hear something.

Hey purple, did you know that it’s not possible to solo a dungeon path? Neat, huh? xD

Having spent a lot of time with the dungeon subforumers watching, observing, mimicking, waiting to be accepted as one of their own….my impression has been that they’re bored. After the kazillionth time running a path, they don’t want to spend an hour in it killing everything and ranging bosses down. It’s not fun anymore. They’re trying to keep things interesting and challenging by speedclearing and soloing.

They want more challenging content. More Lupis. More archdiviners. More bosses that push them to learn something new. Oneshotting more trash isn’t going to give them a thrill — this is why we’ve been asking for more dungeons, preferably with more challenge.

It’s created a huge rift between exp and inexp players. I personally think a hard mode or similar would be an excellent solution to the social problems this is creating as it would naturally separate these types of players, but ANet has said “No way” to that. :-/

The problem isn’t that Fractals are too short. Its that 5 of them isn’t a significant addition for 2 years of waiting. Like I said, in terms of entertainment value and content, 5 shards is about the equivalent of a single dungeon path. If they added more of them it’d be a little better, though I’d personally prefer to see an new dungeon and everything that comes with it instead.

Palador.2170:

((Stupid new page forum bug. Why is this thing still here?))

Same reason the search box still doesn’t work ;-)

Have you tried putting “no skipping/stacking, lowbies welcome, be cool” or similar in your LFG post? It’s always gotten me more patient/laidback groups. Not as awesome as a good guild, but the next best thing :-)

I have done speedruns with friends, but yeah, I never join “exp only” or “speedclear” LFG posts. They’re usually full of obnoxious kibbehs :-P

Not all of them, but enough of them.

I agree that it’s annoying. I don’t mind it, considering the ~900 dungeon runs I’ve done since getting DM (according to hobby dungeon explorer achieve, anyway) — it’s nice to get in and get out. But it would have been nice to have some incentive to fight more of those mobs instead of making them the trashiest of trash with no loot

But yeah, even skipping from boss to boss gives a handful of boss encounters. An FotM shard gives one. I think that’s a pretty significant difference.

Edit: Just saw your edit: When I was active I played with an awesome guild that was really cool about dungeons. They would skip sometimes when the group just wanted to get through, but would hang out, go slow, and take their time if we just felt like goofing around. A good guild gives a very different experience than pugging!

But that guild doesn’t do dungeons too much anymore :-( Most of the active dungeon runners have gotten bored and left for other games, as have I. Now they do a bunch of WvW :’-(

chemiclord.3978:

Ya know, I MIGHT buy that argument that Fractal of the Mists shards are too short if dungeon groups didn’t spend their time in dungeons skipping as much as they can to make the run as short as possible.

And we’re the ones who make sweeping generalizations O.o

Hey guys, did you know that they’ve added 6 new dungeons to the game already?

Ban me now please. I can’t take much more of this. (read the back and forth with that guy. It’s really astounding O.o)

Kaz.5430:

IMO, that’s a great example of changing the definition of something just so that it’s existance can be denied, something that is becomeing a plague on these boards. A dungeon is not ‘defined’ by having 4 or 5 long paths, in an MMO a dungeon is simply a bit of instanced content, that is designed for a group, and generally ends with some sort of boss fight and a reward chest.

Fractals of the Mists ‘is’ a dungeon. Every single ‘set’ of Fractals that culminates in a boss fight, a reward and a choice to leave, is a dungeon ‘path’.

I was merely explaining what we meant when we say the things we say about the unsatisfying endgame experience. Nevertheless, your ability to rigidly apply definitions literally is impressive.

Unfortunately, simply labeling a FotM instance a dungeon doesn’t put it on par with the actual dungeons in this game. Saying that the 5 new fractals are each a new dungeon is open to interpretation (apparently…), but they are undeniably significantly smaller pieces of content than the actual dungeons in the game. It’s just a label, and being pedantic about it doesn’t give us something to do.

Every single possible combination of fractals in a set is a ‘different’ dungeon path. It doesn’t matter if some other games do it differently, that doesn’t mean that the definition of a dungeon changes.

So your argument is that FotM provides 300 paths (considering the available 4 // 5 // 5 // 3 fractals per tier), so there must be plenty of fresh experiences to be had, right? Who could get bored with that much to do!

Of course not. These are combinations of the same 15 encounters. In total, about 1.5 times the content of any other dungeon in the game (assuming 4 paths/dungeon, 3 encounters per path, and being quite generous about it).

If people stopped complaining by denying the existance of things, with grand sweeping statements that are actually not true, then us detestable ‘White Knight Fanboys’ – as some people like to call us when we don’t agree with the attempts to rewrite history – would actually listen to what you say. But for some reason some of you would rather deny that anything has changed at all, than admit that the ANet developers have actually written a LOT of new content.

A “LOT” is a subjective term. If you find 5 new encounters over the course of two years to be a lot, then I’m glad you’re having fun. Doesn’t mean that other players aren’t allowed to be bored.

It’s not true that there has been no new dungeon content. The actual truth is that there has not been enough new dungeon content, to suit you.

It’s not true that there has been no new end game content. The actual truth is that there has not been enough new end game content, of the type you want to play, to suit you.

Agreed, I said as much in my last post.

As a game developer (no tin the same league as GW2), I can say without any lie whatsoever, that when you read pages of people complaining that you’ve not done anything (when in fact you’ve done a lot), it doesn’t provide that little kick you needed to try harder (not that you needed to try harder).

What it does it it slowly burns you out, and makes you less interested in developing new content.

I’m not blaming the developers for the lack of new content. It’s not their fault, they work on what they’re told to work on, and they’re told to work on LS and QoL exclusively. They have admitted that there is no dungeon “team”; there is only one team responsible for WvW, PvP, and dungeons, and that they’re stretched so thin that they can’t do anything but bugfixes. So no, I don’t blame the devs — I feel sorry for them. This decision is made at a much higher level.

I’m not going to expend any more energy arguing with you. Your pedantic argument that FotM instances are equivalent to dungeons simply because they’re lumped into the same category is flawed. The amount of content, replayability, and entertainment they provide is obviously very different.

Enjoy the last word, I’m sure you’ll take it.

Edited to remove some unintended felines

Or make the boxes drop at 40+ until they raise the cap. Just sayin’.

I mean sheesh…Hype up a reward, add it to the game, and then make it inaccessible…

I have no words for that.

ShadowDragoonFTW.3418:

dlonie.6547:

My whole point is that the existing content is stale, and the few additions that LS has blessed us with are a drop in the bucket compared to the content the even GW1 had released in the same time period.

My whole point is that people complain about “not having endgame content”, when the stuff we have is exactly the same as what other games use for endgame content.

The complaint of “We have no endgame content!” is functionally different from the complaint of “We’ve run out of endgame content!”

Fair enough :-) We should be more specific and say no continued endgame content. There’s nothing challenging in the new patches, only zerg fodder and story instances.

At least the LS2 instances are more interesting and challenging than LS1, but they’re still so dumbed down that anyone with a halfway decent grasp of the combat systems can faceroll them :-/

ShadowDragoonFTW.3418:

Run the exact same dungeon five hundred times so you can use your special little tokens to buy your special little gear that’s only 1% stronger than the gear you already have. Do it again for the next piece.

This is the current state of GW2 dungeons, except the gear you get with tokens isn’t stronger than what is already commonly available, so you grind the same paths 500 times for gold.

(Or even better, grind the same dungeon every day for two years because you’re just waiting for “that one drop”. No thanks…)

This is the current state of FotM. Check out the dungeon forum to see the people raging over the grind for fractal skins.

My whole point is that the existing content is stale, and the few additions that LS has blessed us with are a drop in the bucket compared to the content the even GW1 had released in the same time period. If you enjoy challenging content, the “endgame” in GW2 is exhausted quickly, and we’ve been told not to expect any more in the foreseeable future.

Which is why players are saying “endgame sucks” and leaving. All of the focus is on new player experience — those of us who have been playing for two years are out of things to do and bored.

Kaz.5430:

Here are some great examples of selective amnesia and denial

“Fractals of the Mists” is a set of dungeon paths, that did not exist when the game was released.

• It’s listed as a dungeon on the dungeons page on the GW2 website (https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/dungeons/)
• It’s listed as a dungeon on the dungeons page on the GW2 wiki (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dungeon)

If your response is “Fractals is not a Dungeon”, then what is it?

Yes, FotM is included under the umbrella term “dungeons” as far as terminology is concerned. However, in terms of content, a fractal is far from a dungeon. It’s like a tiny bit of a dungeon:

A dungeon has several paths, each with a series of bosses, an multi-part narrative, and a large, complex map. There are associated rewards (tokens/skins/unique items) specific to the dungeon, and a theme tying together several sets of encounters.

A fractal is a single boss, a tiny (usually) linear map, no specific rewards, and no narrative.

A set of four fractals is considered equivalent to a single dungeon path (except that FotM has far worse rewards per time). A dungeon typically consists of 4-5 paths.

Since launch, we’ve seen 5 new fractals and one new dungeon path, and also lost a dungeon path.

Net addition to dungeon content: 5 fractal instances. A little more than one dungeon path worth of content in two years. About a quarter of a dungeon.

If you occasionally run fractals or dungeons and aren’t sick to death of them yet, good for you!

Those of us who regularly run them want more. It’s commonplace to solo the hardest “endgame” dungeon. There’s something wrong with that — more challenging content is needed.

tl;dr Sure, “no new dungeons” is an oversimplification. But what has been added is barely more than a single dungeon path, and that’s just not enough to keep that aspect of the game interesting for the players who enjoy it.

RiverSong.5067:

I think, to protest, i won’t be using my ascended weapon anymore. I’ll keep it in case it gets patched, same with my ongoing damasks and elonian leathers, but i’ll keep it at that.

This will be highly effective.

Ah. We’ll see, just wanted to point it out

I’ve never really had problems filling a party, I think there’s a misunderstanding between us.

I’m just saying that if it’s hard to do now (I stopped playing about a month ago), it’s not because people who want to run for fun are now buying paths. That doesn’t give them what they’re looking for and would be a waste of gold since there’s no fun in it ;-)

People buy paths for tokens/skins, exp, or DM. Not for fun. People who run for fun post LFGs and wait a couple minutes

Stooperdale.3560:

So if people want to buy, does selling cause a problem? Well the buying/selling does reduce the size of community that runs the paths for fun. In a massive community this is fine but in GW2 the fun runners are a small community anyway and for some paths they are almost wiped out. This can create a viscous circle where new players can’t get full runs, so they buy the paths, and this means even less new players making groups for full runs.

I don’t buy this. People who want to run a dungeon for fun and/or gold won’t buy a path. They lose gold by buying and have 0 fun since they just join, stand around, and wait if they buy. They wouldn’t be getting what they want, and wouldn’t pay for nothing. The people who buy them want tokens, exp, or DM.

Players who run for fun still run for fun. The problem is that the dungeons are stale, boring, and utterly trivialized due to ANet’s neglect in fixing/updating/extending them, so there aren’t many of these people left. Two years of silence, neglect, and kitten bug fixes that break more than they fix have driven away a lot of the folks who enjoyed them.

The people who have disappeared aren’t buying runs. They’re either not playing the game or in WvW.

The most oddball thing about it to me:

You only “need” lvl 500 crafting if you do a lot of high level FotM.

Seems like there wouldn’t be a lot of overlap between hardcore dungeon runners and crafting enthusiasts, but I don’t make the rules :-P

Just an FYI, the “Arah List for Devs” thread is still stickied. I think this was meant to be unsticked with the other suggestion threads.

Please delete this thread after seeing it — thanks

moonglum.1429:

I noticed that you have implemented ways to consume bloodstone dust.

I must be out of the loop — can you do something with bloodstone dust besides --> bricks —> ascended?

Yeah, past 100% it’s not worth trying to raise it, IMO. I just salvage everything and let it slowly creep up, but if you want to focus on raising it past that…get ready for the grind of your life O.o

Last I knew, salvaging ectos was the best way to go, you could almost break even selling the other drops (dust IIRC?) you get from it.

Dragonic Elemental.2674:

I don’t know where it comes from. You ahve infinite endgame in GW2 if you just set yourself goals. I guess you have no endgame left if you have all legendaries and all achievements, but that’ll take you a decade, so gl.

Yes, there are a lot of things that can be unlocked. The problem is that you have to grind the same content ad nauseam to do so. After the 100th time doing the same [dungeon | fractal | world boss] so you can get [enough gold | the skin you want | ascended mats ] to get another sliver of the way to your goal, it stops being fun.

And many of us left for this reason. Our pleas for more content are not because we hate the game and want to smear its name — they’re because we love the game and want to see it do well.

“Infinite endgame” in theory does not mean “interesting and engaging content” in practice.

Ask Rob there for some help. Maybe he can show you.

Hiya OP. I’m one of those complainers. I don’t play anymore, but maybe my thoughts and the reasons I left can help you understand our frustration?

When people say there is no endgame, they’re referring to challenging endgame content.

Not living story instance you can AFK through. Not shiny new armor skins in the gemstore. Not another map filled with dynamic events being zerged to death by hordes of staff guardians spamming “1”.

Something like dungeons. Something to challenge players who have progressed beyond the simple combat abilities needed to waltz through a story instance. Something for those of us who really like the combat systems in GW2 and want to see them pushed to their limits.

You say “a set of new dungeons”. There has been exactly 1 dungeon path added in two years, and they removed another path to add it.

The players who are looking for better endgame want something like other MMOs do (including GW1!): New challenging group content, usually dungeons.

Unfortunately this game is not for those players, myself included. It’s for folks who want to grind a story instance for AP and buy gems for shinier pixels. Nothing wrong with that, everyone has their own idea of fun — it’s just that some of us are looking for more of a challenge and a way to explore the combat side of things.

Once you’ve started soloing dungeon paths, Dry Top isn’t that interesting.

Ah, good to know. I don’t think I’ve ever really run the same path more than twice in a day, and if I did I wasn’t really paying attention :-P

60 per path, once daily.

So run paths 1, 2, and 3, you get 180 tokens. Wait until server reset and go do all three again, make another 180 tokens.

You can run the paths multiple times in one day, but you’ll get far fewer tokens after the first time (I think it’s something like 20, 10, 5….?)

I’m assuming you mean this post?

Heh, did you read the reply the other guy got from CS? I don’t think they had a clue what the issue was. Their replies had nothing to do with the issue at hand, they just replied with generic responses about dungeon mechanics and ANet’s stance on selling. Nothing about kicking/griefing.

Michael, can you look into that, and make sure that the CS folks understand this problem? If we’re reporting these guys to CS reps that don’t pass the reports along to the correct folks and instead dismiss them as complains about dungeon mechanics, it’s a rather pointless exercise.

I wonder if part of the confusion with Chris’s earlier comments and Michael’s initial post is that players don’t have a better report option here than “Scamming”. It makes it sounds like the sellers were upset at losing gold, when in reality the problem is that they’re upset about having their time wasted.

That’s why Chris’s posts caused so much trouble — he was saying “We can’t give you the money you lost by getting kicked” but in the context it came across as “We don’t care if you get griefed while selling.”

a’ight stay whit it den

Tman.6349:

What you mean to say is, “running a full condition spec in PvE group play is subpar and borderline useless”.

Yes, this is what I was saying. I meant in PvE group play, since after all — this is the dungeon forum :-)

Did you happen to notice all of the locked red posts on the front page of this subforum? Or did you just jump straight into post?

Might want to check some of them out.

There’s an “Advertise Your Party” button there for a reason. Use it.

Also a description field. Say you’re new and need a teacher. Or looking for a casual run.

Non-seller groups usually fill and disappear from the LFG within seconds, that’s why they seem rare (seller groups take upwards of 5-15 minutes to fill, so there are always a few around).

I’m baffled why this comes up so often. The presence of seller LFGs does not make it harder for other groups to fill. >.<

All these players are just sitting and staring at the LFG waiting for a post rather than making one…not realizing that there are 10 others sitting out there doing the same. Just post a party and it’ll fill. If not, it’s probably because many players are sick of the dungeon content and not running them anymore. So pickings are slim. There are few people left who want to run them, and most of them are so bored of them they just want to get them over with as fast as possible for their daily gold.