Guild Wars 2

Liewec.2896:

i think we need more GW1,
confusion should hit like empathy, mesmers need less clones more interrupts,
powerblock for elite?

Hell no.
Ever hit a Mesmer while you have 3 stacks of confusion on you and they have retaliation on em? Brb putting more passive offense in the game so players can sit on their kitten twiddling thumbs since they don’t have to be proactive to get their results.
Confusion hits hard enough.
Confusion + retaliation? Ridiculous, completely and utterly.

Ffff I should transfer to Anvil since I never see Noctis anymore :o.

Brigg.6189:

isn’t this what hotjoin is?

In theory, but it doesn’t work for a couple of reasons, 1 being the existence of 8v8 diminishing the population of 5v5 to mere duel rooms.

2. As a result of the equip lockdown patch, HJ and tourneys are further divided in gameplay.

3. Free’s encourage winning more, which means playing in line with the format, while HJ currently is very rewarding for derailing on to a Deathmatch zerg.

4. The existence of forced auto-balance degrades the format.

5. Ruins of Capricorn or whatever the map is called.

There’s some more stuff but they’re probably more personal qualms so I’ll shutup about that.

It should be a solo-queue but it’s not really atm. It’s also harder to fill up 8v8 then 5v5 mathematically so including it makes no sense.

I haven’t been facing much pre-mades at all in free’s though tbh, or if I have, I have not noticed. Been reaching Khylo the majority of the time as of late.

I have seen a lot of 3v4’s 4v4’s and 5v4’s even 3v5 and 2v5 (lol wot) however.

When bugged traits and skills which are a global issue for the entire game aren’t dealt with. I wonder if this format will get the attention it needs.

I think you talk enough tbh. Maybe too much because though I’m sure your jobs are hardI ddon’t see a lot of anything going on brah. Weren’t things put on hold to get custom arenas but they ain’t here?

If I ever get hit for 90k in spvp I am uninstalling and will give up on this game.

Arheundel.6451:

leashmaygoss.2140:

Haters gonna hate!

1. Engineer
2. Necro
3. Warrior
4. Ele
5. Thief
6. Ranger
7. Mesmer
8. Guardian

Huh?
You’re 2 months earlier, baddies will start QQ about engies in two months time after the rangers

Inb4 bomb nerf.

I do believe they reflect your stats so it depends on how you’re built.

Breackable or not it was rather obscene undoubtably.
Back stab hit for 14k. Could’ve run D/P and come up from behind and it would’ve been unpredictable.

1. Ele/ Mesmer
2. Ranger/Engi
3. War/Necro
4. Thief
5. Guardian

Serious.

….low priority but somehow made me feel neglected…
Wanted to unwind a bit and can’t use mah tonic?

Are you a trap ranger?
No?
Then you dun goof’d.

Columba.9730:

ensoriki.5789:

No worse than most? They’re base survivability is worse than everything but the Elementalist.

Lowest Health bracket.
Medium armor.
Only thing worse is Lowest health bracket + light armor. Which is the Ele…

I’m telling you roll that stealthless thief brah, do it and gain some perspective.
You’ll be surprised on both ends.

who’s talking about stealthless thieves? I am talking about minor adjustments to thieves. It’s irrational to claim that thieves are untouchables and can never have their stealth adjusted. all classes get their skills adjusted. adapt and move on. you can’t handcuff the developers to fix badly broken stealth mechanics in wvw. it’s not reasonable and it’s melodramatic.

When I have I claimed untouchables?
You’re trying to toy with things without thinking repercussions because of a Wvw specific issues, which even if balanced for WvW would be subjective because Culling does not work on a specific timer.

That didn’t make sense.
You know where you are going to move to, so you know where you’re back will be.

The reality is that it’s just a bad strategy because presuming they were permanently stealthed, they would just wait out your aoe anyways.
Pro-active attacks on stealth work in the short-term when you know the distance they can be is finite and the time they can remain hidden is finite which simultaneously forces their hand. If they are prolonging stealth, this strength of knowledge on your side disappears.

No worse than most? They’re base survivability is worse than everything but the Elementalist.

Lowest Health bracket.
Medium armor.
Only thing worse is Lowest health bracket + light armor. Which is the Ele…

I’m telling you roll that stealthless thief brah, do it and gain some perspective.
You’ll be surprised on both ends.

In PvE eh not much reason to save it, not a lot of things are running boons on a level that you significantly care for boon removal. Arctic Crabs sure.

At least the way I play, Bountiful Theft, is used almost like a Finisher not an opener.
I see them activating their defenses and when I’m ready for the kill I strip them off it and obliterate.

Peck a guardian with my bow, drop a poison. Keep distance, when ready switch to sword inf strike into him, start the melee, do a couple PW’s or Headshots whatever it takes to have him bring up his Stability and Protection, when he feels he’s safe? Strip them, Haste, PIstol whip. Dead. Black Powder. Collect my Bag of loot or get the node..

You said you don’t see how it’s needed.
So I gave multiple reasons (not a straight comparison) on why it would be taken and a couple of situations on where it comes in handy. Cheer’s brah.

Maybe when that Ctf mode comes out I’ll take RFI, Can evade to hell and back with a shortbow + Quick pockets, adventurer runes and endurance sigil and SoA.

Daecollo.9578:

ensoriki.5789:

What more is there to say?
You want P/P to do double its current damage via a trait.

Does. Not. Compute.
Double.
Not 20%. not 10% more. Flipping Double damage.

It only effects Body Shot/Vital Shot/Head Shot.

Which all need buffs (significant ones.)

How can you say only when that’s the majority of the bar…
lolz.

What more is there to say?
You want P/P to do double its current damage via a trait.

Does. Not. Compute.
Double.
Not 20%. not 10% more. Flipping Double damage.

Columba.9730:

It doesn’t make sense that tiny changes to stealth would break the entire class. WHat’s so special about thieves that they should be immune from nerfs? I thought stealth wasn’t the main skill for this class anyway.

Go take.
S/P + P/P
P/P + SB
or S/P +SB.
No stealth heal or utils.
Go run in WvW and try for the keep.
Know no one will ever lose target on you and you don’t have protection.
Go dodge all you want since you’re not doing anything significant to anybody while you do so. Not like you have Phantasm’s attacking while you dodge, or a Pet coming at you.
Serious you’ll see how narrow the defenses of the proffession are and the relevancy of stealth.

Should not form an idea on where Stealth needs to be if you have not seen what life without Stealth is. It’s just a bunch of dodging around without seperable damage and dying once sneezed on because target never breaks, so you have all this homing crap on you without Protection reducing any of it or a high hp buffer.

Kasama.8941:

Stiv.1820:

2 stun breaks and a condition removal within 20 seconds.. usable with any weapon set. Also can get on top of stuff without short-bow requirement. Instant 1200 range movement to catch someone or get away. It’s got to be our best utility for PvP at least..

How often do you really need two stun breakers in a row (let alone one)? Shadow Return on the sword also breaks stun and removes one condition. Roll for Initiative also removes cripple, chilled, and immobilize, while giving you 6 initiative on top of the stun removal. You already have Shadow Refuge to get away, and Steal (which can be traited to have 1200 range) plus weapon skills for chasing. I don’t see how Shadowstep is needed, at all.

RFI is
1) Less frequent (60 cd vs 50).
2) Creates far less maximum distance from an enemy than Shadowstep.
3) Specifically removes 3 conditions but does nothing for you if under Confusion, burning, poison, bleeding, which will wreck your face if not removed in dire situations.
4) Does not combo with my sword nearly as nice. I can get 3 enemies coming my way, hit shadow return off sword, Shadowstep into the distance, plant another Shadow return from shadow strike, continue moving. Shadow return from shadowstep back to my original location, and if needed shadow return again from inf strike where I had Shadowstepped too. My ability to go “see ya” goes out even further if I get stealth up, or switch to shortbow. With RfI, at best I get an extra CnD/IA or Black powder… Tbh just not feeling it. There’s also when people try to get away from me, and I shadowstep to them, and hit backstab/flanking strike/Heartseeker when they assumed they were safe. No sir.
5) When not running shortbow. Been playing my free’s without it for quite a bit now, and that means I have no ground targetted shadowstep, this means I’d have to walk up certain terrain if I didn’t have Shadowstep on my bar. Rfi wouldn’t solve that. Same for WvW say at shoot what’s it called Arah’s Hope? (left supply camp) When you want to warp up that ledge to Gtfo. Or on the right camp when you go down the slope and warp up the mountain towards the tower by the wurms.
6) When Sword Shadowreturn does not break. This is generally true for Engineer launches, and stomps. There are also times when I shadow return and cannot move despite no conditions on me, I assume this is me actually being stuck in a form of stun and the animation just not showing. Shadowstep comes into play here to get me out. Nothing worse than eating some Engi’s knockback, shadow returning…still on the floor and a Thief comes in with his dagger combo…Shadowstep brah.

Or when they’re about to stomp my bro and steals on CD. So I shadowstep right to em, hit haste, cnd, Tactical strike (or Pw/headshot) that’s interrupted, start rezzing in their face, No problem or drop the Shadow refuge.
Though Generally I have 2+ Stunbreakers on my utility slots regardless, so if I took Rfi it’s with Shadowstep in order to facilitate some need that RFI will fulfill.

tl;dr; Weapon skills can’t do it all and Shadowstep synergizes very well with D/ and S/ probably P/ too I’d assume but I rarely run it seriously.

And fix my traps, thanks.

It gets slower.

He used Diversion lol watch the vid. He didn’t MI.

Brb stealling fear off Necro’s.

Revoke.1425:

Why should blast finisher, that grant stealth, remove stealth?
smoke field is there then I use a blast finisher, then I get a stealth combo
I used an attack skill before vanishing. It was the final effect of that skill (blast in this case) to grant me stealth, is not that way?

I found that hella annoying with cluster bomb, I swear it’s an oversight since I don’t recall Engineer’s having this issue, that and you can damage a foe leaping with HS with no problem and get stealth. Annoying as all hell.

It makes little sense to look at the warriors rifle. Warriors are supposed to hit harder from the get-go. Looking at what you are naturally supposed to be inferior to, to debate your inferiority just doesn’t make sense to me.
That being said I mentioned DA simply for the significance of where a trait goes effecting how outrageous it can be.

No. I just quick hopped into the mist.
10/30/30 spec, made no changes from my melee spec.
Dropped in a pistol no trait changes took me about 11s counting in my head (obv fallible). With an air sigil and accuracy. Swapped to my sword, took me 6s with a flame sigil and the same sigil of accuracy. So if I take my 30 in SA into Acrobatics. All that changes as a P/P is that I go from 11s to about 6s (lets round up for my inaccuracy) or the same as my sword. From 900 range. Naturally time fluctuates between both based on crit activations.
Again you’re doubling your power… Assuming haste I’d probably get it down to 3s to kill from my pistol auto attack but assuming my bleeds are important, maybe 4/5.
The trait is ridiculously powerful brah that’s all there is to it.
For basically little relevant change in a build I double my output. Not as bad as if you put it in Deadly arts but obviously relevant. I think it is far too much. Probably would look even better if I put in that pistol trait to up it 10%. Or to put it in other words, I’d now have to think how this would compare of 10/30/0/30 vs a 25/30/0/0/15 build for instance and I think this would edge out though I’m not doing the math.

I still believe Pistols main issue is that it’s a defensive (as in no defense) duck and body shot not holding it’s weight.

Grandmaster trait so what?
Where does the trait go?
If you put it in DA who cares? As if panic strike and residual venoms were important.
If you put it in CS, Hidden killer sucks for P/ thieves anyways so it’s between that and executioner. You won’t be losing much damage at all by choosing this instead since it doubles the power of your 1 & 2 and possibly 4 if you go /P. In other words vs executioner it’s a 2x boost vs 20% boost to slots 1,2 and 4 & 5. Unload get’s used less since Body shot will deal such abhorrent damage meaning you can save ini quite easily while just pounding people. You’d probably take this trait over executioner. 4/5 of your attacks doubled vs a global 20% that basically just means your number 3 doesn’t get neglected as if it’ll matter in the grand scheme lol nope.
Can put it in Shadow arts, maybe the best trade of, since now you have to minimize maximum damage. Problem being that it essentially means even being bulky you hit bloody hard, so it’s favourable for anything bar a P/D troll spec though Shadow Protector can make up for that as well.

In acrobatics? Hard to catch isn’t getting run anyways so it’s this and quick pockets. Your auto attack doing 2x damage means you don’t need your ini skills as attacks as much, generally meaning you’ll spend less ini to begin with so it’s generally a better investment as well.

Finally you can put it in tricker which isn’t much of a choice at all. Lol, 2 traits with relative CD’s for a 1s daze or 4 ini, or put out 2x damage in the time it takes for those to recharge. Lol no thanks. Brb bleed spec that applies 2 stacks of bleed on auto attack. Doubling it’s damage as well.

The trait is redonculus.

Figure in sigils like fire/air putting up an additional 2+k on your shot. Depending on where this trait would be put you can easily get a flippin 6k auto attack that drops 2 stacks of bleeding on top to boot, and can be combo’d with this headshot which will do 1k ez to stall before launching another 2-3k auto attack. 10k dmg ezpz Costed me 4 ini. If I get screwed I’ll hit BP.

Pistols can already hit hard, anyone who says they want to sit and eat 3 unloads is full of it or bulk speccing. I just know whenever I see a P/P thief that outside of that they have no defenses and have to weapon swap or die. Call me when you address P/P’s lack of mobility, stealth, and evade, 3 common staples of the thief and not 1 of the 3 exists on the set. Brb just upping the damage until it’s balanced by sheer in-ability to ignore redonculus damage. Just mean’s I’ll pick you up and daze/spike you ezpz lemon squeeze since you have the absolute worst defense of all thief sets.

Did he dance on your corpse after?

Shar.3402:

problem with ranks, is that it’s not tied to a class
I could play elementalist till r40, then switch to another class
does that qualify me as a r40 thief if I never played it? I think not

Lol so much this. Felt weird switching to ranger/ele and the only thing I felt comfortable at the time fighting was thieves.

I thought there was enough context?
We aren’t slow, so the increased movement speed while addicting is easy to get by without out it so I take other skills that serve me better.
What you mean no hype it’s being labelled as core, but I’m pretty sure in all of your builds if you want to put in haste, or any other skill SoS will likely be 1 of the first skills you swap it for though I understand why you’d take it, it is no longer useful in how I play.
What more do you need? Sounds like you’re feeling unnecessarily threatened and taking offense where you need not to.

SoS fills your speed hole and works as an emergency blind however if you aren’t feeling a necessity for that speed, you don’t take it, it’s rather simple not much ‘context’ is needed for it.

Running my swords, I rather take haste, because Im not naturally punching people down in 3 hits. Shadowstep is multi-purpose and fits a variety of needs from travel, offense, defense and synergizes well with my infiltrator’s strike for jukes among more specific needs. Shadow Refuge gives a stealth needs but isn’t required, to be frank the bottom line is distance gets traversed enough without SoS, so I don’t need it and don’t find it mandatory.
Like other’s I found it a staple until I bothered a better look without it, month’s ago, though you felt a need to attack it sarcastically.

Dee’s calling the three our best utilities but I don’t think SoS is. I find it it’s a compliment for a ‘need for speed’ but very clearly you’ll get various uses from other skills, and inf signet and Signet of Agility are just as easy to fit in a build as I see it.

Is that enough context 4 u baby bwoi? Probably not since the bug in your butt is rather obvious at this point.

Wow all this hype for Signet of Shadows?
I used to swear by it’s importance Beta-November. I eventually looked at Lowell’s build I believe saw no SoS went “wtf” tried it anyways, and became unhooked. I highly doubt SoS will see any real play on my bar again unless it were buffed or traits involving it were.

SoS is just addicting it’s nothing special at all, in the slightest.
Sure if you’re feeling it’s really slow and other gap closers just are not fitting how you play sure. But inf Signet, in battle? Passively giving you ini? More important to me. Starting my PW/CnD from behind cover to warp the stun into their face with inf signet? I prefer. Being able to place a Shadow return from inf strike, and still warp to them from another means?
SoS? Doubt I’ll ever take it again unless some kind of P/P build or w/e.

Shadowstep is straight out amazing, our other stunbreaks should get on it’s level that or they could make SoA a stunbreak, I’d drop Shadowstep for that in a couple of builds no doubt.

Like Ensign said they fills gaps, but a lot of it’s convenience too.
SoS mean’s you don’t have to think as heavily about gap closing or moving, but now I don’t see a purpose for it because I warp so much with a S/ that the only time I’m really moving is between cover when I think about it. So 25% movement speed does little for me, other than increase the range I travel before I juke again but it’s just not significant.

Shadowstep and SR are some top tier skills though SR is pretty easy to switch out.

Shanks R Us.2489:

At the very bottom of the hotjoin list, there are 5v5 servers. Try those, they’re a little better.

As of the January Temple week , 5v5 is basically exclusively dueling atm.

I want Sour Fang.

It gives a bonus to crit damage? Well that explains a lot.
So when is my Lynx going to be on par -_-.

Hell no.

Lol did this one hand business come about because of the light attacks?
Lol they’re not supposed to be viable you get a third skill so that you aren’t left with 2 unlike every other profession :o

interesting stuff though :O

Blah no reason to use my Lynx Q_Q.

It interrupts pet skills and ends on pet skills?
But it doesn’t remove Jaguar stealth?
So is it supposed to not be usable at the same time as Jag stealth or is it not supposed to interrupt pet skills?
I Do not comprehend.
My Jag’s putting up sweet numbers, I do not see the same on everything else once I press f2.

Edit: Or Is sick’em not applying? Excluding f2 my Jag is still hitting harder than my Lynx? Wtf? They have the same stats.

http://www.carcosa.net/jason/blog_images/2005/07/04/brown-bear-swimming.jpg

Only Polar bears? Lol wot.
Also obviously our pets aren’t your normal average run of the mill Planet-earth pet.
Unless polar bear icy roars break your disbelief because real polar bears don’t freeze you with roars….

Can you test Lynx and Hawk as well separately?

Jacobin.8509:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Really people shouldn’t use stream numbers as an indication of much. Its better people playing than watching the game. And there are technical issues with twitch which are effecting alot of the smaller unpartnered channels. Twitch seems to be struggling to cope with the massive demand from league stream/tournaments and this is making most of their other streams unwatchable for a large number of people.

Yes but many other games experience the same issues, but consistently have much higher viewership like Smite for instance.

As for the patch, adding a new map is pretty much a smokescreen for not adding competitive features or structural changes that people are asking for. It also makes little sense when they are currently locking the paids map.

Spvp could have 50 of the tired and played out conquest maps, it won’t bring in anybody for more than a few days.

Adding a new map makes plenty of sense to me. It helps break the monotomy by giving you a new setting and a variant of the experience so it doesn’t feel as routine.
Or to put it in other words, would the game be better off if every map but Khylo did not exist and that’s all there ever was to play from beta to now? It would be so repetitive :o just visually speaking let alone gameplay.

I think like they said before when Temple came out, creating maps does not require a lot of people so they can do it in their spare time. To that end I’m some what disappointed we don’t have 1 or 2 more maps not coming out with Spirit.
Found myself not skipping Capricorn as of late just to have a change of pace.

Though I still feel improving their features is important, wouldn’t call it a smokescreen.
I’d be pleasantly surprised if much came from this Feb patch however.

HS on flat areas. IA anywhere else.

Daecollo.9578:

Sebrent.3625:

Daecollo.9578:

Sebrent.3625:

@Jonny.9370 and @Daecollo.9578
It is not about cooldowns. It is about actually seeing the ability and having a chance to react. There is a massive difference between reacting to something you can actually see being performed and simply guessing what they will perform next.

Warrior:

• I see bolas so have a chance to dodge/block/etc.
• I can use condition removal to get out of bolas
• I can see bull’s charge so have a chance to dodge/block/etc.
• I can use a stunbreaker to get out of bull’s charge
• I can see Hundred Blades so I can dodge/block/etc.

Thief:

• I can see him stealth but not I must guess at what time he is going to backstab me.
  He has 3+ seconds to choose from.
  • 2 Dodge rolls don’t even cover 3+ seconds and leaves you with no stamina to dodge cloak and dagger so then what would you do for the next backstab even if this did work.
  • Blocks don’t last longer than 3 seconds but thieves have multiple ways to get more than 3 seconds of stealth.

The thief is going to backstab you within 2-3 seconds and cloak and dagger you after revealed is gone, if you can’t time this you should play a thief and learn how it works.

You’ve obviously never fought a warrior who saves his skills, if he just suddenly bull’s charges you first, yes its easy to dodge, but if he WAITS and uses it a little later, especially at VERY CLOSE melee range, its almost impossible to dodge. (your also ignoring the shield stun warriors have as well.)

Yes, the thief is going to backstab me anywhere in the next 3+ seconds he is stealthed. How exactly does a person guess when during that time the backstab is going to happen? On my Mesmer, I counter with my own stealth but on my Ranger I’m stuck guessing when to use one of my many evades.

As far as cloak and dagger being easy to evade, that’s great except when there are enemy NPCs nearby that the thief simply hits with cloak and dagger to gain stealth again. Then there’s the 3 other stealths I previously mentioned that many stealth-spec thieves are taking.

Oh em gee, could it be that the thief may be behind you?

wot no.

Look I said it b4 Columba. If there is a distance it must be closed. The thief must take time to close this distance. If you are not beside an npc, than for him to cloak off it he has to go towards it. Play by manipulating the distance between you and the thief so he has to close it to stealth off you, or widen it to stealth off something else. If a thief is hell bent on only Stealth then he loses out on gap closers which means he has to stay in stealth longer to approach you without being seen. This is being conscious. Steal is what 36s recharge at best, if that’s his main gap closer because he’s packed on steal utils than it works against him in that playing distance will force him to pop
A) utils
b) More initiative.

If I’m fighting a warrior, even if I closed my eyes I know he can only go from point A – B in a certain timeframe and to do it faster he has to use abilities to close the gap faster than norm. Same idea extends. The only place this is an issue is the pistol thief where he’s not as bothered by distance though it’s still significant as his bread and butter is based off getting into stealth.

Rangers can be very effective against thieves Columba don’t know what you’re talking about, must be a pistol thief. If you’re trapping if he tries to backstab he’ll set em off. Unquestionably. If he goes to range, your shortbow will beat out his.

Columba.9730:

ensoriki.5789:

Columba.9730:

Daecollo.9578:

ensoriki.5789:

Columba.9730:

Sorry, but there is noway that rangers are equally as good in WvWvW as are thieves. Most thieves admit that.

Pretty sure if I understood mechanics right you get a better return off stacking Rangers since spirits aren’t on that aoe cap than you do thieves. 3 stone spirit rangers = perma protection for the zerg. Vs 3 Thieves with what Refuge/Blinding powder that effect 5 at most, within shorter rangers, and the defense immediately flops the moment you attack back? Vs perma 25% reduction?

Thieves don’t have protection.

Sure they do. They have stealth, by far the best protection in the game. They also have 50% speed.

Stealth only mitigates with the idea you do not get hit, if you are getting hit, it is the worst defense in the game.

You only get hit if you stand still.

Or If Immobilized/ Stunned/KD’d/launched etc’d.
But anyways it’s clear to me your mind works in a bubble, so I recall why I avoid this thread. Full of nonsense.

Columba.9730:

Daecollo.9578:

ensoriki.5789:

Columba.9730:

Sorry, but there is noway that rangers are equally as good in WvWvW as are thieves. Most thieves admit that.

Pretty sure if I understood mechanics right you get a better return off stacking Rangers since spirits aren’t on that aoe cap than you do thieves. 3 stone spirit rangers = perma protection for the zerg. Vs 3 Thieves with what Refuge/Blinding powder that effect 5 at most, within shorter rangers, and the defense immediately flops the moment you attack back? Vs perma 25% reduction?

Thieves don’t have protection.

Sure they do. They have stealth, by far the best protection in the game. They also have 50% speed.

Stealth only mitigates with the idea you do not get hit.
They only have 50% speed if they trait for it.
Lets see a defense that doesn’t mitigate any damage if you are hit, vs one that flat out drops it down by 33%. Or vs actual damage negation skills that are inequivocably stronger at reducing damage? Hence Mist form, Elixer S, Blurred Frenzy. Or flat physical damage nulls in Protect me or Endure pain?
Steal is only effective if you do not get hit, but the reality is, it’s not superior to jack crap. If you’re getting hit Stealth won’t save you. If you’ve been immobilized and are eating some hundred blades or locked in an aoe of some sort. Protection serves you bettter, Protect me serves you better, Mist form serves you better. Only thing “special” about Stealth is it’s frequency relative to other defenses. If I put Obsidian Flesh on a thief’s slot 5 instead of stealth, see how fast you’re tune would chance about Stealth being the best protection in the game. roflmao.

Columba.9730:

ensoriki.5789:

Columba.9730:

Sorry, but there is noway that rangers are equally as good in WvWvW as are thieves.  Most thieves admit that.

Pretty sure if I understood mechanics right you get a better return off stacking Rangers since spirits aren’t on that aoe cap than you do thieves. 3 stone spirit rangers = perma protection for the zerg. Vs 3 Thieves with what Refuge/Blinding powder that effect 5 at most, within shorter rangers, and the defense immediately flops the moment you attack back? Vs perma 25% reduction?

Umm, there’s a lot more to. WvWvW than spirit stacking.  Do honestly claim that rangers are better than thieves in WvWvW?

Rangers stack better than thieves, Did you not read? 3 rangers reduce the damage for everyone by 33% vs 3 applications of Refuge.

That was the point.

Columba.9730:

Sorry, but there is noway that rangers are equally as good in WvWvW as are thieves. Most thieves admit that.

Pretty sure if I understood mechanics right you get a better return off stacking Rangers since spirits aren’t on that aoe cap than you do thieves. 3 stone spirit rangers = perma protection for the zerg. Vs 3 Thieves with what Refuge/Blinding powder that effect 5 at most, within shorter rangers, and the defense immediately flops the moment you attack back? Vs perma 25% reduction?

Daecollo.9578:

Mister Mustard.7203:

frans.8092:

Sebrent.3625:

…D/D Thieves are quite similar in that they use #1 #2 -or- #3 depending on power/cond build, and #5 and are very effective.

You forget the number 4 to cripple and catch fleeing opponents. Thats … all 5?

Sebrent.3625:

P/D is Pistol w/ Offhand Dagger so #5 is Cloak and Dagger which gives stealth. They then use the pistol stealth attack (Sneak Attack) which has decent direct damage, applies 5 bleeds, and uses 0 initiative

It’s direct damage is quite poor, to use effective you should really focus on the bleeds (+duration, +condition damage), which rules out power based weapons (just about everything else)

… Yes, in some the zergs are horrible, but in others you see people try to chain CCs but they are evaded and the thief stealths …

Blind and CC is the way to go, if a zerg fails to catch a thief it’s really their fault. There’s only a limited amount of endurance and stun breaking. It’s more the zerg’s hive-mind that let’s them escape.

What are you talking about with what type of damage sneak attack is? Whether it’s condition damage or power, it still hurts. There are plenty of videos of P/D thieves trolling about nigh invincible. You can bury your head in the sand and pretend they don’t exist, but don’t make pointless arguments to defend it if so.

Also, how does being in a group help anyone catch up to an escaping thief? Between stealth utilities, blinds, swiftness on dodge, SB 5 / Dagger 2, a thief can run from 50 players as well as 1. If you get caught by the zerg, you probably die, but you still have to get caught.

The best way to beat a P/D thief is just ignore him, its not like he can catch up to you or do anything about it.

^ Lulz that’s terrible advice.

No you can compete with others who don’t have gaming mouses.
I’ve got 5 buttons on my mouse brah…well Technically more but w/e
If you move around keys, you’ll find something more in your range. I believe some are changing A and D to strafing and putting extra skills on Q and E for quicker access having their mouse focus on the camera.

At the rate at which Free’s are going on atm I’ll probably be a senior citizen before I get 3 games in.