Guild Wars 2

Grimwolf.7163:

Normally I’d just attribute it to more baseless stupid Thief hate, but the Devs are in on it too.
I’d really like then to give them the benefit of the doubt and not assume the Devs just have it out for us like so many players.
I doubt it’s the constant dodging. That already got nerfed pretty hard recently, and hardly even needed that with how weak the damage and versatility were, and how fast you’d drop the moment you made a single mistake.

It’s almost invariably going to be a nerf to Inf Strike / Shadow Return, and it will probably ruin S/D.

I can’t imagine why they’d nerf LS damage – LS and CS are the only attacks that hit for any decent damage. Without LS to fill in the gaps, S/D is going to get pasted trying to facetank long enough to get to the end of an AA chain.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Problems like this are always very hard to track down because they are so vague and infrequent. The best I can do is relay the information to someone with more insight

I appreciate the response!

I’ve tested everything.

My internet is stable, and high speed (30mbps down, 3mbps up)
My trace to the GW2 servers is fairly direct (Thanks to Battle Ping)
I am not experiencing any packet loss, both confirmed by me and my ISP.
My ping is fairly stable, bouncing between 50 and 90 on average (With the rare 100+ outlier)

It simply has to be the servers. Unfortunately, the issue has not been infrequent – it’s basically a guarantee at this point that in most games, I will experience this issue in some way.

Thank you again for the response, hopefully we will hear further good news soon.

Void.4239:

Dagins.5163:

@Void
And in this build you have big fat zero condition cleanse (maybe basilisk venom, 1 sec channeling time on 45 sec cd?). You are hard countered by necros and engineers without any chances to fight back. Other classes using condis, or with more than 1 condi removal tools will be just hard. However, it’s a very good build against newbies and people with their brains afk.

Once again – this is IMPOSSIBLE to stay competitive relying only 1 button, because it’s predictable, and being predictable is… bad. Not to mention it’s boring.

this is not just for you Dagins, its for every that doesnt understand my build.

Does it look like i copy builds from some1….? so you assuming totally wrong build i guess…

Here’s why the build works.
- 12 dodges and enough ini regain to keep up DB/dodge rotation
- sure you can cleanse it , but i can keep it up constantly, if i don’t mess up the rotation.
-( thats a constant closecombat pressure on the target. And if they target me, they will wast alot of skills on the evades )

here’s a old vid ( the first fun version of the build started as a non stealth fun build)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kjN4Swgn3k

here’s the after patch version of the build. ( it actually does the job better now , even in the condi meta )

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAoY4YlYmiOHcy8E9JFCvAvHO4XFW6C6ecVcVVB-TwAgyCpI0SplTLjWStsaNIYRw+j5HA

BEFORE posting that it is a crap build, you should really try it out first.

I do understand your build.

I have tried it out before.

It is a crap build.

We don’t have to agree however. You have fun playing it, I’ll have fun playing something else.

Excalibur.9748:

Lazarus.2365:

It’s because we swing the sword so fast and skill 3 and 4 are OP

Lol since when is dancing dagger OP??

I’m going to guess there’s a missing sarcasm tag there…

Interceptor.2653:

evilapprentice.6379:

The last time I fought a D/D DB thief, I tried explaining this to him. When he called me a noob, I stopped fighting, let him go nuts with his DB, cleansed his bleeds (essentially turning 15 initiative into roughly 3k damage), then demolished him without any effort.

So, are you sure you didn’t just own a noob, rather than owning a D/D spec? This is nothing but a reversal of the same fallacy you just piled on to.

The next paragraph (which you didn’t quote) points out that his skill level didn’t matter – His choices were Spam DB, watch me cleanse the bleeds and own him, or attempt to keep 3-6 bleeds on me and use AA as filler, which still would have resulted in him losing the fight (albeit more slowly).

Void.4239:

evilapprentice.6379:

Craig.2403:

style.6173:

Rissou.7213:

I would like to see a thief who can play d/d bleed good, because ive never seen one.

You clearly haven’t played much. Played well this spec is incredible, at least in PvP.

You clearly have not played much vs good players. Played vs good players this spec is terrible, at least in PvP.

I agree. I’m not sure what the infatuation is with this spec in PvP.

You have 1 UND ONLY ONE condition that does any damage – Bleed. It’s so ridiculously easy for any class in the current meta to cleanse 1 condition that it’s laughable. If venoms were in a better place, it might be viable…but they aren’t, so it isn’t.

The last time I fought a D/D DB thief, I tried explaining this to him. When he called me a noob, I stopped fighting, let him go nuts with his DB, cleansed his bleeds (essentially turning 15 initiative into roughly 3k damage), then demolished him without any effort.

If you’re trying to rely on your AA for filler damage, it’s a losing proposition – you’re either running Rabid/Shaman amulet and doing completely awful direct damage, or Carrion amulet and the lack of toughness leaves you taking too much damage during your AA chain(which still isn’t doing good damage, just good in comparison to the base power you’d be running with rabid/shaman) – you’re 100% reliant on 1 kind of kittenty skill to do All of your damage, which is again, rather easily cleansed.

It’s a joke spec – entirely predictable, entirely counter-able, entirely reliant on 1 weaponskill out of 5.

first of i run Dubble D/D 5/0/5/30/30 build. as my main build in Spvp

1) Sure you can cleanse the bleeds , to bad in my rotation you’ll have at least 3 bleeds up 2-3 secs after you cleans it
2) I got poison/ cripple / bleeds that will be “spammed” on the target , that looks like 3 condi’s to me instead of 1.
3) I’m build for high condi damage / i got a very high evade uptime( that spreads bleeds and cripple pools)/ and i got a realy good ini recovery) .
4) I can still dish out good burst damage with elite , and Hs still hits for around 2k to finish folks off. ( for those peski condi cleansing maniacs )
5) Its not meant to be a killer,
- Its a support build that can dish out good damage,
- It has great survivability,
- It can hold multiple targets busy at a point and can bunker on points for a good amount of time ( for a thief that is )

1) And then I’ll just cleanse them again – it’s a condition heavy meta, cleanses abound.
2) You’ve got Bleeds. You’ve got cripple if I’m dumb enough to stand in caltrops (hint, no one worth fighting is), and Poison if you can complete your AA chain – most specs will punish you for getting to the end of your AA chain.
3)DB is a really, really kittenty evade – I can time it so that I always hit you at the end of your DB, before you have control back over your character (so you can’t use a dodge) – this kills the spec.
4) “Hits folks for 2k” is a pointless anecdote. Can you tell me what armor those targets were at? What’s your total power, crit chance, and crit damage? What elite are you using for “good burst”? I’m willing to bet any other spec would do it better
5) There are better builds with support and survivability in mind, which can also kill people. I’ve run builds that do a much better job Psuedo-bunkering.

I’m glad you have fun with the spec. Run what you like, run what you have fun with. Doesn’t change the fact that DB is a one trick pony with no where to go in real PvP.

I’ve always wondered why S/D thief was lumped in with Passive play body blocking Petting Zoo Spirit Rangers, AoE condi spam/burst necro’s, and perma regen warriors. All 3 have options to invest completely in toughness/condition damage, 2 of them have insane AoE options, and all 3 are very survivable.

Somehow, S/D thieves are always lumped in to the “Super broken” column with those 3 classes, despite being almost entirely single target, having weak sustain (especially when compared to those 3) and needing a Zerker’s jewel to deal what anyone would consider “high” sustained damage.

Craig.2403:

style.6173:

Rissou.7213:

I would like to see a thief who can play d/d bleed good, because ive never seen one.

You clearly haven’t played much. Played well this spec is incredible, at least in PvP.

You clearly have not played much vs good players. Played vs good players this spec is terrible, at least in PvP.

I agree. I’m not sure what the infatuation is with this spec in PvP.

You have 1 UND ONLY ONE condition that does any damage – Bleed. It’s so ridiculously easy for any class in the current meta to cleanse 1 condition that it’s laughable. If venoms were in a better place, it might be viable…but they aren’t, so it isn’t.

The last time I fought a D/D DB thief, I tried explaining this to him. When he called me a noob, I stopped fighting, let him go nuts with his DB, cleansed his bleeds (essentially turning 15 initiative into roughly 3k damage), then demolished him without any effort.

If you’re trying to rely on your AA for filler damage, it’s a losing proposition – you’re either running Rabid/Shaman amulet and doing completely awful direct damage, or Carrion amulet and the lack of toughness leaves you taking too much damage during your AA chain(which still isn’t doing good damage, just good in comparison to the base power you’d be running with rabid/shaman) – you’re 100% reliant on 1 kind of kittenty skill to do All of your damage, which is again, rather easily cleansed.

It’s a joke spec – entirely predictable, entirely counter-able, entirely reliant on 1 weaponskill out of 5.

So I’m going to be the skeptic here.
- What proof is there that the user is actually Jon Peters?
- How do we know that was not photo-shopped?

Rome.3192:

dDuff.3860:

Retal is 255 per hit, and pw deal 5 strikes if fully executed
255*5=1275

PW is 9 hits. 255*9 = 2295.

I could be wrong, But I believes its actually 10 hits (1 Hit for the pistol whip, 3 sword swings which each generate 3 hits)

Just to test, I went and tried wtfast – it performs similarly to battleping, and still does nothing to address the issue.

Thank you again however for the suggestion.

Krayiss.4926:

You devs know what the video is.
No excuses about “oh think how many” or “hey my friend” etc
If you watched the video youd know its a discussion in and of itself and is posted in place of hellseth.

I think I’ve been pretty critical of the moderators points so far, and it’s only fair to be just as critical of the community – this suggestion is ludicrous. You can’t expect the mods to sit and watch every video and judge whether or not the content is appropriate for the forum. That would be a gigantic waste of time, money, and effort.

The specific video I was referencing is a special case for a few reasons (The video makers reputation, there was a transcription, there was even a set of bullet points that made it apparent the video belonged in the SPvP forums), but in general, just a video link and the words “discuss” shouldn’t be enough to force the moderators to waste time watching a video and judging its merit.

CC Danicia.1394:

evilapprentice.6379:

Can we get an explanation as to why promoting the video itself (with the word “Discuss”) is banned? The point of the video/transcription was to generate a conversation about the current issues with SPvP – I understand how a rule might be against that in general, but why stifle something specifically designed to generate constructive criticism and help the developers understand our frustrations?

Promoting a video would be something for Linksville, which is for promoting interesting sites, videos, and whatnot. The discussion would be about the video itself and the content.

Really, we’d much rather just have all those points as a forum post for discussion, versus numerous people posting the same link in various areas of the forum, to advertise, as it were, the video.

Does that help?

I understand your point, it’s just a bit frustrating. Duplicate posts cluttering the forums is certainly something no one wants, and I do understand that it’s your job to prevent that.

While you’re not wrong, I feel like it’s silly to move a video consisting entirely of SPvP discussion to a sub forum I’ve never once even considered visiting, just so I can watch the video, and bring my comments back to the SPvP forum.

When I’m in the mood to talk about SPvP, I think “lets go to the SPvP forums”, not “Let me scour random other forums in hopes that PvP related content has been posted there”.

If I want to post my thoughts concerning the video, I’m going to have to Link to the Linksville post (which is literally just 1 step removed from linking the video itself) so that people who haven’t seen the video have some idea what I’m talking about.

jsu.4370:

Hi guys, I just wanted to shine some light. I had this issue a few months back. It’s to do with how your ISP connects to guild wars 2’s servers. Sometimes your ISP will connect to a multitude of servers before it reaches gw2’s server. This is an unfortunate ISP issue.

I fixed my skill lag by purchasing WTFast ( http://www.wtfast.com/ ) – I have no affiliation with this company. It fixed up my lag and actually allowed me to stream with no-ingame lag as well. Worth checking out if you take pvp seriously and your being effected by the skill lag. Free trail as well so test it out before you buy to see if it works for you as well.

I don’t believe that this is my issue.

I specifically use Battleping (which appears to be a similar service to the one you linked) to connect to a server in TX to reduce my latency, and still experience this issue.

Thank you for the information regardless.

Mark Katzbach.9084:

Ideally, a thread to discuss content of the video would start with the points for discussion, then lead into the link and possibly a transcript.

Past threads linking to Helseth’s videos (including a duplicate for this week) tend to be just a link and the word “discuss”. The one you linked happens to also contain a transcript.

Because of the length of the transcript, I missed the points for discussion in the OP’s last post. So, on good faith, I will return that thread to the sPvP subforum so that discussion can continue.

In the future, please open with discussion points to clarify that the thread is a discussion thread and not just an advertisement for a stream or blog post.

“Ideally”, I Should see someone’s interpretation/ discussion points on a video I may or may not have watched, then at the end see a link to the video? I understand how that might make a moderators life easier, but I hope you can also see how silly that appears to a member of the community. Additionally, I personally like transcripts – I’d much prefer to read than watch a video.

Can we get an explanation as to why promoting the video itself (with the word “Discuss”) is banned? The point of the video/transcription was to generate a conversation about the current issues with SPvP – I understand how a rule might be against that in general, but why stifle something specifically designed to generate constructive criticism and help the developers understand our frustrations?

Dand.8231:

Actually, this could work, not as a REPLACEMENT to stealth, but as an ALTERNATE to it.

Every class is getting new skills, right? Maybe one of the new skills provides a new form of stealth.

Burglars Signet:
Passive: When not in combat, automatically enter stalking mode. While Stalking, you remain stealthed, but move 25% slower, and will get the revealed debuff for 6 seconds if you take damage.

Active: Gain swiftness 8s. If you’re stealthed/stalking, also gain revealed and quickness for 3 seconds. CT 1/2, CD 75s

While this is a much better suggestion than OP (Since it is actually a different kind of “stealth”, rather than a stealth nerf labeled as a stealth change), this particular skill wouldn’t work well.

Any player capable of AoE (almost everyone) would hit the middle of a point and drop an AoE, effectively neutering this signet completely.

Mark Katzbach.9084:

Helseth’s stream links belong in linksville because they are links. If somebody was starting a discussion, and happened to link his stream as reference to a point they were making, that would be different. What’s been happening is his stream is linked either with no discussion or with a transcript of his stream. In either case those belong in linksville, as that is what that subforum is there for.

… Even when they’re concerning Structured PvP? That seems a particularly ill conceived rule, applied with little rational thought.

Do the links to the PAX tourney belong in Linksville, just because they’re links? Even though it was the games first cash prize Structured PvP tournament? I mean, that rule just sounds extremely silly.

The more I read your post, the more incredulous I get. That is a particularly awful and narrow minded view for forum moderators to have. It doesn’t take much in the way of rational thought to understand why a Link to a discussion about Structured PvP belongs in the Structured PvP forums. Are we supposed to go to a different sub-forum, watch the video, then bring comments back here out of no where?

Why would I be in Linksville if I was interested in talking about/hearing others views on Structured PvP? This is absolutely mind boggling. If you were following some rule when you moved it, it’s an asinine one that needs a re-examination, post haste. If it was a judgement call on your part, it’s my opinion that it was a poor one, and I hope in the future it isn’t repeated.

Mepheles.2087:

The idea could use some tweaking, but it could potentially work. Unlike in other games where there is a passive way to find the rogue archetype, i.e if they pass right in front of you they pop up in stealth, or subtle sounds that tell you if a thief or such is nearby. Because once a thief is stealthed, you will never find him unless you were to put down a stealth trap, which is kind of cheesy.

You could just…swing your weapon.

Wilhelmryan.9203:

Ragnarok players should be familiar with this skill, it could be interesting for stealth mech to change into this, which could reduce the amount of QQ on stealth.

basically “stalk” is a stealth mechanic that leaves a subtle trail of footprints, so you’ll still be able to tell where the thief is, but the thief will only be revealed if hit by an aoe or etc.

Please change the title to “Stealth nerf”, because that’s what you’re suggesting. Also, you’re not the first and you won’t be the last, that should indicate something to you.

Why not just “Swap” the abilities in spirit?

Dagger Wave – 6 init, range 600 – Throw a multitude of daggers are your opponent, causing vulnerability, weakness or cripple (one, randomly) on critical hits (does direct damage)

Death Blossom – 4 init, range 130 – Leap into the air and spin about, shooting everyone around you and causing them to bleed (same functionality as current DB)

Not perfect, but should be easy(ish) to implement and would make both sets at least marginally better.

I see Red posts all across the front page, it’s growing more and more disconcerting that this issue is being completely ignored.

This is no longer a “Once every few games” issue like it was 3 weeks ago.
It’s happening
Every
Single
Game.

Obviously, I’m not the only one it’s happening to – can we please get an acknowledgement of the problem, and some sort of timeline to when it will be fixed?

I’m willing to bet the CC and SYNC playing for 10k didn’t have to deal with this problem, or else it would have been dealt with after the first round. Why have we been dealing with it for over a month?

Didn’t it always say, right in the sigil description, 10s CD?

It’s been an issue since last patch, and it has yet to be addressed.
Its infuriating. If I use Inf strike, RFI, or withdraw, it’s basically a crap shoot. Inf strike is guarenteed to go off .25s after I hit it making it impossible to actually use the skill tactically, and RFI and Withdraw basically get to decide if I stand there and get destroyed, or if they actually go off. Regardless, it’s a major issue negatively effecting PvP, and I can’t fathom why it has yet to even be acknowledged (beyond the fact that it’s been occuring for over a month with no fix, and acknowledging it would cause major anger in the community)

samo.1054:

It was mentioned that this patch wouldn’t include big balance changes. One of the devs actually said that on gw2pvptv on twitch. The bigger patch is supposedly coming in 2 weeks as far as I know…

I missed that information apparently. It’s not the biggest deal, just a bit disappointing.

Daecollo.9578:

30/30/30/30/30 Warriors with 4 weapon sets are hard to kill.

As far as I can tell (and I admit, gw2skills.net may be wrong), 0/0/20/0/0 is enough to get you Adrenal Health AND Cleansire Ire….

Daecollo.9578:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Counter-play-Poison-and-Stability/first#post2755937

Learn to use Poison.

HS is Fine.

This thread has nothing to deal with SPVP, please move to Warrior forum.

Also merge topic with others.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/dont-forget-to-nerf-healing-signet/first#post2761320

dejay.2598:

evilapprentice.6379:

dejay.2598:

there are 3 possible builds that don’t include zerker amulet, the only one I didn’t go over was a shaman’s condi build. Yeah it’s really strong 1v1 and under rated actually. But, if you go sword/sword you are still an easy target to get bursted in team fights. If you go sword/shield your damage is barely worth mentioning.

How can you complain about Ire, when, you have to LAND your attack to proc it compared to EMP bond on ranger – passive 3 condi removals per 10 seconds. Guardians remove 1 every 10 seconds + can remove another 7 condis every 25 seconds. Eles remove 1 every 5 seconds. Thieves can remove condis in stealth, hide in shadows removes condis, and infiltrators strike removes condis on no cooldown. Engineers can remove ~8 condis every ~30 seconds. All on par, better, or pretty close to ire… that do not require you to run a specific weapon to use.

How does one “Miss” combustive shot?

In the current meta, with the plethora of pets running around, it’s very hard to not hit anything with Earthshaker.

One of the common complaints about headcrack is how its animation is very hard to read and its instant cast, meaning it’s fairly easy to land.

Pin down is a 3s immobilize, which makes landing a burst skill trivial.

How is cleansing ire tied to “a specific weapon” – any burst skill activates cleansing Ire.

All of those classes don’t have access to passive regen in the same manner as some current warrior builds do, or else they too would be included in the discussion.

tell me more about the 3 weapon set warrior build

You’ll note the separate lines to denote separate examples.

Darnis.4056:

Most All skills prioritize Players do they not?….
working as intended as far as I can tell…

I was under the impression that was not the case – perhaps I am wrong there.

dejay.2598:

there are 3 possible builds that don’t include zerker amulet, the only one I didn’t go over was a shaman’s condi build. Yeah it’s really strong 1v1 and under rated actually. But, if you go sword/sword you are still an easy target to get bursted in team fights. If you go sword/shield your damage is barely worth mentioning.

How can you complain about Ire, when, you have to LAND your attack to proc it compared to EMP bond on ranger – passive 3 condi removals per 10 seconds. Guardians remove 1 every 10 seconds + can remove another 7 condis every 25 seconds. Eles remove 1 every 5 seconds. Thieves can remove condis in stealth, hide in shadows removes condis, and infiltrators strike removes condis on no cooldown. Engineers can remove ~8 condis every ~30 seconds. All on par, better, or pretty close to ire… that do not require you to run a specific weapon to use.

How does one “Miss” combustive shot?

In the current meta, with the plethora of pets running around, it’s very hard to not hit anything with Earthshaker.

One of the common complaints about skull crack is how its animation is very hard to read and its instant cast, meaning it’s fairly easy to land.

Pin down is a 3s immobilize, which makes landing a burst skill trivial.

How is cleansing ire tied to “a specific weapon” – any burst skill activates cleansing Ire.

All of those classes don’t have access to passive regen in the same manner as some current warrior builds do, or else they too would be included in the discussion.

Fenrir.5493:

evilapprentice.6379:

Fenrir.5493:

evilapprentice.6379:

Fenrir.5493:

evilapprentice.6379:

Fenrir.5493:

evilapprentice.6379:

Fenrir.5493:

They should really ban people claiming stupid things and spreading their dirty propaganda on the forums, defaming classes just for the sake of it.

While I agree with the sentiment of your post, its hilariously hypocritical coming from you.

When it’s the class you play, people shouldn’t be allowed to post their opinions (Wrong or not). When it’s you defaming other classes, it’s A-Ok. Lawl.

Back on topic, something probably needs to be done about the Signet + Adrenaline heal + cleansing ire combo. Whereas the usual answer to this level of passive regen would be “just keep poison up”, its almost impossible to do so in this meta because of how much condition cleanse has been prioritized – when a warrior can drop 3 conditions every 7-10 seconds (just by using burst skills they’d be using anyway), it’s almost impossible to keep them poisoned and continue doing adequate damage.

It’s also not boon based, so it can’t be stripped/stolen. Prior to the LS change, the main problem with boon bunkers was there weren’t enough options to strip protection/regen/stability to keep your target from just passively regenerating huge amounts of health. This isn’t necessarily a problem, just something to keep in mind.

As far as what actually needs to be changed, and how severe the change should be, I’ve got nothing – that’s a playtesting issue.

Its not, because they are claiming nerfs on a class that they refuse to learn how to counter, the regen of healing signet is crap in pvp, is that crap that i dont even use it, they only throw defaming claims with no evidence at all that is the problem.

Nearly every warrior is using Healing signet, to great effect I might add. If you haven’t found a way to use it effectively, that’s on you, and honestly kind of hard to believe.

Again, I’m not sitting here screaming thakittens obviously insanely broken and needs nerfing, but the combo of Signet + Adrenaline heal + Cleansing ire probably warrants looking at.

I made a full regen warrior build in pvp and it was crap, as soon as a burst build hit me like a thief the regen couldnt compensate the high damage, warriors have no protection so they cant bunker only other bunkers and that is lol…

Then i realized that healing signet was over rated and stoped using it i prefer burst healing when i need it and not passive crappy healing, just burst a healing signet user and see how fast its going to start running away.

I don’t know what else to tell you, other than to speak to some more experienced warriors so they can guide you in how to properly use healing signet.

Why dont you explain to me sir, you seem to know some kind of SECRET im not aware off, so please by any means show me the light because as it is right now im only seing that you are runing away for not having anything to say about this matter.

Its incredibly hard to convince the ignorant of their ignorance. I have neither the time or patience to attempt it.

In addition, while I know the basics of most warrior specs, I’m certainly not qualified to give you the level of hand holding you obviously require to lead you to what has been an obvious conclusion for most warriors over the entirety of the past month. I could post my Hammer – M/S warrior build when I get home – I’m sure it’s not the best it could be, but it certainly works fairly well for someone who’s never played warrior before last month (me).

It’s hardly a secret – 9/10 warriors you run into are running healing signet. Some are better than others, but the ones that are good are very obviously powerful. Like I’ve repeatedly said, Healing signet isn’t really an issue IMO. Healing signet + adrenal healing + Cleansing ire is in question as far as I’m concerned, and even then, I’m not prepared to claim its crazy OP, just something that warrants looking in to.

So you have no arguments and everyone that dont agrees with you dosent know how to play, by the way i love how you stealth insult people when you clearly have no evidence and arguments of the things that you are claiming.

I’ve had multiple arguments. You just don’t like them, so you’ve chosen to ignore them. As I’ve said, go hop on the warrior forums and talk about how “useless” healing signet is and see how they feel about the subject, I’ve got nothing more to offer you.

Chopps.5047:

evilapprentice.6379:

Chopps.5047:

I do have something constructive to post: I disagree. Short and simple. Fair?

You’re free to disagree, but your argument would carry much more weight if you could explain why.

All pets are good for is absorbing aoe. That’s my argument. Happy?

Yes, because I can actually discuss that.

Pet’s already do a bunch of things – grant passive effects, have active effects, body block, etc. Do they really need absorb AoE in addition?

The conversation is further complicated by the fact that there are different classes of pets – Ranger pets and elites sit on top, spirits, phantasms, necro summons, and ambush trap in the middle, and crap like Rock Dog and Clones sit on the bottom. Should they all be treated the same? It’s kinda BS that clones and rock dogs absorb powerful AoE, but perhaps everything from the mid-tier up should count?

dejay.2598:

evilapprentice.6379:

dejay.2598:

evilapprentice.6379:

dejay.2598:

evilapprentice.6379:

dejay.2598:

Too much to quote

Like you said (And I’ve said), the issue comes down to Adrenal health + cleansing Ire + healing signet (I forgot to mention berserker stance and CC, which also helps).

The issue is counterplay. The obvious answer to “lots of passive regen” is “Lots of poison and consistent damage for pressure” – but the current meta has made “lots of poison” almost impossible to actually apply. Due to how popular conditions are, and how easy many classes can reapply them, you’ll have a kitten of a time actually getting poison to stick for more than 5 seconds on a warrior. Combined with all the CC and blocks (which can be used to buy more regen time more than anything else), you’re looking at a setup that almost completely neuters any of the available counterplay options. If the heal were activated, you could interrupt/poison the player during the cast to limit the effects. Since Signet is passive, there is option to interrupt, and poison is vastly less effective.

You’re speaking out of context. Tell me the situation that a warrior specced stunlock is “too much”. Is it a 1v1? Which class are you? Is it a team fight? Is it overall map presence? Is it node holding? What? What is it? Maybe I can help you.

Stunlock isn’t part of the conversation – its a variable, but one that doesn’t really affect the overall effect too much.

The issue is cleansing ire locks out any sort of counterplay to high passive regen. In 1 v 1, in team fights, in holding nodes – you can’t reduce the healing in the same way you could any other class because it’s part of a build designed to drop multiple conditions every 7-10 seconds using the classes unique ability.

Speaking as a warrior that doesn’t have poison, I have no problem killing other zerker warriors in under ~20 seconds that use healing signet. Triple stance also? A bit longer. But no longer than any other zerker class with 3 defensive utilities.

And as a warrior and necro, once bezerker stance is down you can 100-0 a warrior in a fear lock (corrupt stability)

Maybe get better

Who’s talking about zerker warriors specifically? Why are you getting so specific, unless you’d have trouble defending your position in other, more common scenario’s. Maybe you should learn how to objectively look at things rather than blindly defend the things you like about your class with little thought on what actually works.

Also, you haven’t really touched on my point about counterplay.

Because if you don’t get specific I can’t tell you why or why not you’re wrong. You are basing this off of “feelings” instead of facts apparently. Blindly saying “this is OP but I won’t say when, where, or how” is hardly an argument.

You should read the things I say before attempting to quote me. I’ve said (repeatedly, in multiple, different posts) that I don’t feel Healing signet is OP. I’ve also stated I don’t feel comfortable calling Healing signet + Cleansing Ire + Adrenal health OP, just that it is probably something that should be looked at. Warriors who choose sustain builds (not zerker, cause that’s just silly with healing sig) have insane survivability because cleansing ire locks out all counterplay to high passive healing. Where they’re standing, or who they’re fighting, or how many people they are fighting has some impact, but not much (its mostly dependant on whether or not there is a necro there to overwhelm the warrior with conditions) – Cleansing Ire dropping 2-3 conditions every 7-10 seconds makes it almost impossible to keep poison up (unless you have a condition spam class fighting with you), which is potentially a problem. How much more specific can I get?

Oh well. You would think I would learn to not get my hopes up, but alas, I am a fool.

dejay.2598:

evilapprentice.6379:

dejay.2598:

evilapprentice.6379:

dejay.2598:

Too much to quote

Like you said (And I’ve said), the issue comes down to Adrenal health + cleansing Ire + healing signet (I forgot to mention berserker stance and CC, which also helps).

The issue is counterplay. The obvious answer to “lots of passive regen” is “Lots of poison and consistent damage for pressure” – but the current meta has made “lots of poison” almost impossible to actually apply. Due to how popular conditions are, and how easy many classes can reapply them, you’ll have a kitten of a time actually getting poison to stick for more than 5 seconds on a warrior. Combined with all the CC and blocks (which can be used to buy more regen time more than anything else), you’re looking at a setup that almost completely neuters any of the available counterplay options. If the heal were activated, you could interrupt/poison the player during the cast to limit the effects. Since Signet is passive, there is option to interrupt, and poison is vastly less effective.

You’re speaking out of context. Tell me the situation that a warrior specced stunlock is “too much”. Is it a 1v1? Which class are you? Is it a team fight? Is it overall map presence? Is it node holding? What? What is it? Maybe I can help you.

Stunlock isn’t part of the conversation – its a variable, but one that doesn’t really affect the overall effect too much.

The issue is cleansing ire locks out any sort of counterplay to high passive regen. In 1 v 1, in team fights, in holding nodes – you can’t reduce the healing in the same way you could any other class because it’s part of a build designed to drop multiple conditions every 7-10 seconds using the classes unique ability.

Speaking as a warrior that doesn’t have poison, I have no problem killing other zerker warriors in under ~20 seconds that use healing signet. Triple stance also? A bit longer. But no longer than any other zerker class with 3 defensive utilities.

And as a warrior and necro, once bezerker stance is down you can 100-0 a warrior in a fear lock (corrupt stability)

Maybe get better

Who’s talking about zerker warriors specifically? Why are you getting so specific, unless you’d have trouble defending your position in other, more common scenario’s. Maybe you should learn how to objectively look at things rather than blindly defend the things you like about your class with little thought on what actually works.

Also, you haven’t really touched on my point about counterplay.

It’s the only thing I could possibly think of – 2 months of players complaining about how unfun the current condition meta is and Necromancer was basically untouched. I’m just going to give Anet the benefit of the doubt and assume the notes are incomplete.

dejay.2598:

evilapprentice.6379:

dejay.2598:

Too much to quote

Like you said (And I’ve said), the issue comes down to Adrenal health + cleansing Ire + healing signet (I forgot to mention berserker stance and CC, which also helps).

The issue is counterplay. The obvious answer to “lots of passive regen” is “Lots of poison and consistent damage for pressure” – but the current meta has made “lots of poison” almost impossible to actually apply. Due to how popular conditions are, and how easy many classes can reapply them, you’ll have a kitten of a time actually getting poison to stick for more than 5 seconds on a warrior. Combined with all the CC and blocks (which can be used to buy more regen time more than anything else), you’re looking at a setup that almost completely neuters any of the available counterplay options. If the heal were activated, you could interrupt/poison the player during the cast to limit the effects. Since Signet is passive, there is option to interrupt, and poison is vastly less effective.

You’re speaking out of context. Tell me the situation that a warrior specced stunlock is “too much”. Is it a 1v1? Which class are you? Is it a team fight? Is it overall map presence? Is it node holding? What? What is it? Maybe I can help you.

Stunlock isn’t part of the conversation – its a variable, but one that doesn’t really affect the overall effect too much.

The issue is cleansing ire locks out any sort of counterplay to high passive regen. In 1 v 1, in team fights, in holding nodes – you can’t reduce the healing in the same way you could any other class because it’s part of a build designed to drop multiple conditions every 7-10 seconds using the classes unique ability.

Chopps.5047:

I do have something constructive to post: I disagree. Short and simple. Fair?

You’re free to disagree, but your argument would carry much more weight if you could explain why.

dejay.2598:

Too much to quote

Like you said (And I’ve said), the issue comes down to Adrenal health + cleansing Ire + healing signet (I forgot to mention berserker stance and CC, which also helps).

The issue is counterplay. The obvious answer to “lots of passive regen” is “Lots of poison and consistent damage for pressure” – but the current meta has made “lots of poison” almost impossible to actually apply. Due to how popular conditions are, and how easy many classes can reapply them, you’ll have a kitten of a time actually getting poison to stick for more than 5 seconds on a warrior. Combined with all the CC and blocks (which can be used to buy more regen time more than anything else), you’re looking at a setup that almost completely neuters any of the available counterplay options. If the heal were activated, you could interrupt/poison the player during the cast to limit the effects. Since Signet is passive, there is option to interrupt, and poison is vastly less effective.

Chopps.5047:

evilapprentice.6379:

Chopps.5047:

Yay another nerf demand for pet classes. Don’t want the pet being useful at absorbing aoe for allies. That’s about all they’re good for now, might as well nerf that too.

When 1 Player can field enough pets to fill the AoE limit, there’s an issue.

You’ll also note I made no demands. It was a question, looking for opinions, not whiny BS.

Ok ok it’s not a demand. But seriously, stop asking for spirit nerfs. If we can’t even absorb aoe for allies might as well get rid of spirits altogether.

You’re still not getting it. My suggestion would affect Engineers (They all run supply crate), some Necro’s, All Mesmers, and some Rangers and the occasional thief (ambush Trap + thieves guild). This isn’t a spirit ranger discussion, its a “Wave of pets” discussion. If you don’t have anything constructive to post, just don’t bother.

Chopps.5047:

Yay another nerf demand for pet classes. Don’t want the pet being useful at absorbing aoe for allies. That’s about all they’re good for now, might as well nerf that too.

When 1 Player can field enough pets to fill the AoE limit, there’s an issue.

You’ll also note I made no demands. It was a question, looking for opinions, not whiny BS.

Fenrir.5493:

evilapprentice.6379:

Fenrir.5493:

evilapprentice.6379:

Fenrir.5493:

They should really ban people claiming stupid things and spreading their dirty propaganda on the forums, defaming classes just for the sake of it.

While I agree with the sentiment of your post, its hilariously hypocritical coming from you.

When it’s the class you play, people shouldn’t be allowed to post their opinions (Wrong or not). When it’s you defaming other classes, it’s A-Ok. Lawl.

Back on topic, something probably needs to be done about the Signet + Adrenaline heal + cleansing ire combo. Whereas the usual answer to this level of passive regen would be “just keep poison up”, its almost impossible to do so in this meta because of how much condition cleanse has been prioritized – when a warrior can drop 3 conditions every 7-10 seconds (just by using burst skills they’d be using anyway), it’s almost impossible to keep them poisoned and continue doing adequate damage.

It’s also not boon based, so it can’t be stripped/stolen. Prior to the LS change, the main problem with boon bunkers was there weren’t enough options to strip protection/regen/stability to keep your target from just passively regenerating huge amounts of health. This isn’t necessarily a problem, just something to keep in mind.

As far as what actually needs to be changed, and how severe the change should be, I’ve got nothing – that’s a playtesting issue.

Its not, because they are claiming nerfs on a class that they refuse to learn how to counter, the regen of healing signet is crap in pvp, is that crap that i dont even use it, they only throw defaming claims with no evidence at all that is the problem.

Nearly every warrior is using Healing signet, to great effect I might add. If you haven’t found a way to use it effectively, that’s on you, and honestly kind of hard to believe.

Again, I’m not sitting here screaming thakittens obviously insanely broken and needs nerfing, but the combo of Signet + Adrenaline heal + Cleansing ire probably warrants looking at.

I made a full regen warrior build in pvp and it was crap, as soon as a burst build hit me like a thief the regen couldnt compensate the high damage, warriors have no protection so they cant bunker only other bunkers and that is lol…

Then i realized that healing signet was over rated and stoped using it i prefer burst healing when i need it and not passive crappy healing, just burst a healing signet user and see how fast its going to start running away.

I don’t know what else to tell you, other than to speak to some more experienced warriors so they can guide you in how to properly use healing signet.

redslion.9675:

65 hps.

65 hps difference between Healing Surge and Healing signet.

Is that the difference between fine and OP?

However, if that is the problem, remove adrenaline heal. It’s not that strong, and if it makes you happy, so be it!

That’s not an entirely accurate comparison, now is it?

A) Signet is passive regen, always happening, whereas Surge is an active effect. It’s easier to burst down someone who has to activate an effect rather than one who is passively recovering health

B) I believe (but am not positive) you’re comparing Surge at full adrenaline to Signet – Signet is not reliant on adrenaline level, so you’re comparing Surge akittens best to signet base.

C) Surge has an activation time, and can be interrupted.

D) Surge happens as an effect all at once – poison at the right time and they lost 33% of their heal. Signet happens gradually over time, so poison is less effective. Coupled with how high condition cleansing is prioritized in the current meta, and signet is vastly harder to counter with poison than healing surge is.

Fenrir.5493:

evilapprentice.6379:

Fenrir.5493:

They should really ban people claiming stupid things and spreading their dirty propaganda on the forums, defaming classes just for the sake of it.

While I agree with the sentiment of your post, its hilariously hypocritical coming from you.

When it’s the class you play, people shouldn’t be allowed to post their opinions (Wrong or not). When it’s you defaming other classes, it’s A-Ok. Lawl.

Back on topic, something probably needs to be done about the Signet + Adrenaline heal + cleansing ire combo. Whereas the usual answer to this level of passive regen would be “just keep poison up”, its almost impossible to do so in this meta because of how much condition cleanse has been prioritized – when a warrior can drop 3 conditions every 7-10 seconds (just by using burst skills they’d be using anyway), it’s almost impossible to keep them poisoned and continue doing adequate damage.

It’s also not boon based, so it can’t be stripped/stolen. Prior to the LS change, the main problem with boon bunkers was there weren’t enough options to strip protection/regen/stability to keep your target from just passively regenerating huge amounts of health. This isn’t necessarily a problem, just something to keep in mind.

As far as what actually needs to be changed, and how severe the change should be, I’ve got nothing – that’s a playtesting issue.

Its not, because they are claiming nerfs on a class that they refuse to learn how to counter, the regen of healing signet is crap in pvp, is that crap that i dont even use it, they only throw defaming claims with no evidence at all that is the problem.

Nearly every warrior is using Healing signet, to great effect I might add. If you haven’t found a way to use it effectively, that’s on you, and honestly kind of hard to believe.

Again, I’m not sitting here screaming thakittens obviously insanely broken and needs nerfing, but the combo of Signet + Adrenaline heal + Cleansing ire probably warrants looking at.

You’re talking about completely overhauling one of the games basics systems. It honestly doesn’t matter if your suggestion is perfect in every way, you are literally describing a new game.

Fenrir.5493:

They should really ban people claiming stupid things and spreading their dirty propaganda on the forums, defaming classes just for the sake of it.

While I agree with the sentiment of your post, its hilariously hypocritical coming from you.

When it’s the class you play, people shouldn’t be allowed to post their opinions (Wrong or not). When it’s you defaming other classes, it’s A-Ok. Lawl.

Back on topic, something probably needs to be done about the Signet + Adrenaline heal + cleansing ire combo. Whereas the usual answer to this level of passive regen would be “just keep poison up”, its almost impossible to do so in this meta because of how much condition cleanse has been prioritized – when a warrior can drop 3 conditions every 7-10 seconds (just by using burst skills they’d be using anyway), it’s almost impossible to keep them poisoned and continue doing adequate damage.

It’s also not boon based, so it can’t be stripped/stolen. Prior to the LS change, the main problem with boon bunkers was there weren’t enough options to strip protection/regen/stability to keep your target from just passively regenerating huge amounts of health. This isn’t necessarily a problem, just something to keep in mind.

As far as what actually needs to be changed, and how severe the change should be, I’ve got nothing – that’s a playtesting issue.

stof.9341:

Maybe ANet should simply remove the AoE limit in sPvP?

Thinking about it, my suggestion and yours are basically the same (if pets don’t count, you’ll never have a team bigger than 5 players in TPvP or 5v5 SPvP, so.. yeah).

Perhaps pets should not count toward the limit, except for Ranger pets (Since they’re supposed to be half of a rangers overall power), and elite summons (Since they should be considered powerful with their long CD)

So, as I’m sure all of you are aware, the amount of pets on screen is a point of contention for a lot of players. They clutter up the screen, make the action hard to watch, are excellent at body blocking ranged attacks/big attacks like BS, etc etc etc.

My question is, should pets count toward the AoE limit? Maybe all AoE should hit pets regardless, and only players should count toward the 5 target limit. As it stands, a single Ranger, Necro or Mesmer can bring (or generate) enough pets by themselves to overwhelm the AoE limit.

It’s a bit tricky, because pets strenghts aren’t universal – Ranger pets and Elite summons are being lumped together with Rock dogs and clones in my suggestion, which may cause a problem. This could be circumvented by adjusting pet health pools (if we assume pets are now always hit by AoE and do not count toward the target limit).

What do you guys think?

1. Give us some way to actually spend glory on things we care about. As I’ve suggested in the past, give players an option – When spending money for gems, allow players to spend X amount of glory PER 10 dollar spent to gain additional gems. This way, Anet is getting paid, and players have some use for glory.

2. Glory gained in games is awarded to the entire team – this will encourage players to play intelligently. The bunker holding home point will get the same amount of points as the roamer trying to neutralize/cap far point – they’re both contributing to the team, reward them the same.

3. Put up a PTR (public test realm) – There’s really no way around this one. Let the players test your game changes before they go live. This will lead to smoother game updates and a happier playerbase. Make players pay for a “PTR access token” if cost is the issue, but it just has to be done.

4. As others have said, Remove 8v8 Hotjoin. You’re trying to balance the game around 5v5, 8v8 only serves to confuse players. People will get a skewed view of how balanced classes are when they take classes and maps balanced for 5v5 and play them in an 8v8 format. I personally have not touched 8v8 since 5v5 hot join has become an option – literally not once, it isn’t fun.

Boot.7368:

Thief (s/d)
I’ve wanted to make this post for a while and ended up forgetting all about it until I watched: http://www.twitch.tv/helsethgw2/c/2831244 . In this video Helseth talks about the current meta and I found myself agreeable to a great extent with his opinions and justifications. Basically s/d right now does too much of everything. It has high burst, very high sustainable damage And is very difficult to kill. S/d needs to have its damage and/or survivability toned down because at the moment it is simply too strong. S/d thieves need to choose between dealing damage or surviving in fights and spending their initiative accordingly, not get to do everything with the same rotations.

I disagree with “High Burst”, it just isn’t there. LS and CS are the only skills with high damage. One is at the end of an AA chain, and the other can only be used for 5 seconds after an FS. That’s not burst at all.

TGSlasher.1458:

While I usually deal with pings in +300ms both me and my friend noticed massive spikes. Players teleporting, both of us trying to change attunement and having it fail (like 2 seconds of pressing the button to achieve nothing). As far as we could tell it only happened on a few of the servers we were playing on (hotjoin servers).

Any server it occurs on is honestly unacceptable. The odd problem here and there is understandable (nothing is perfect, after all), but the level of consistency and frequency that this occurs is frankly unnaceptable.

When I brought it up in the support forums, I was informed to report in the “suggestions” forums. When I pointed out that “having working servers” shouldn’t be a suggestion Anet really needs, i was informed that Dev’s were aware of the problems and working on it. Working on it for over a month, with no results or official acknowledgement? What is this, a startup indie company?