Guild Wars 2

Warriors were hideously gimpy (besides 100b trick ponies) at launch.
They still suck (even worse now).

Thief backstab burst was op at launch.
It still is.

Bunker guardians were op at launch.
They still are.

Mesmers were op at launch.
They still are.

Ele has been ridiculous in the meta for many months now with mobility/regen.
No real nerfs.

Conclusion:
aNet are terrible at balancing. They are also hilariously slow at doing it.
Roll the op classes now. Chances are they won’t be nerfed for a year or so.

Lately I’ve been testing out a few other games, including one relatively underground D3 style game which included microtransactions where players were literally throwing money at the company behind it – even though it was certainly not pay to win.

Now I’m guilty of not putting money into the anet shop.
Why not? Because none of it interests me. I was fairly interested in halloween skins, but I refused (along with many others) to partake in a gambling style acquisition method. Many people probably would have donated money for something nice. I suspect the same is true of the current super awesome 8bit skins.

So my question to anyone reading this is;
What would you pay for?

There is a world of customisation out there which could be messed around with by anet’s artists, all of which could be disabled in wvw/pvp if necessary from a balance point of view. I’m not sure why they haven’t leapt all over this opportunity.

Personally I would pay for things such as: (I’m just throwing ideas out here, for customisation)
Unique looks for phantasms
New lines players speak when they receive buffs
Earthshaker animation that looks more explosive
Elementalist phoenix replaced with a dragon
Cleansing wave could look more like a tsunami
Deathly swarm replaces locusts with bats
Green/purple/blue etc fire

^I figured they removed that piece of crap class.

Elementalist

Guardian
Mesmer
Engineer
Thief

Ranger
Necro

Arken.3725:

As much as I agree it was a significant nerf to warriors, I think it allows them to think outside the box now and not just spec into dps machines. Maybe this will give them some flavor to utilize banners and support a little more through warhorns(turning condi’s into boons). I do believe these are underutilized and should be taken into account.

Ah that’s all it was. Guys, warriors aren’t underpowered at all, we just needed to think outside of the box. Thousands of warriors and hundreds of top pvpers simply weren’t thinking outside the box enough.

The problem we have is that anywhere outside the box (the box being 100b burst) was actually pretty terrible. The closest we came to viable was with hammer lockdown (see Defektive’s posts) but even that was pretty dire compared to most other classes. And the box itself wasn’t that great either, it was the best of a bad world.

Yes – the balance in this game is not great.
But spvp takes no levelling, and it’s fairly easy to level a character for wvw.
If you’re not playing a mesmer/guardian/ele/thief it’s your own fault, stop handicapping yourself.

It was sarcasm. I’d bet money on warriors being just as useless in real spvp in the next patch as they are now.

Sorry but everyone is going to have to resubmit their answers.
Warriors clearly are not underpowered anymore, they are getting banners with 170 stats on them. All their problems have been fixed. Expect to see spvp teams full of warriors any day now.

I’d be very interested in a tier list like that one for wvw.

What could a zerker warrior group (plus maybe mesmer/guardian) do which a ragtag group of randoms cannot do?

Besides farming CoF? Because seriously I can’t understand why you would farm something which isn’t fun in this game when there are so many other things to do and ways to actually have fun. Even in farming you’re only shaving a matter of minutes off.

As was pointed out above – I suspect the real reason zerker warriors are good farmers is because people roll them with the intention of farming. Thus you are likely to get a good group of farmers when you specify a zerker warrior cof group, rather than have uncommitted people dropping out or dcing etc, which are the real timewasters.

Nice points above. They need each other.
toothless – yes that’s just #1.
necro’s staff is pretty terrible compared to cleaving melee I’m afraid :P

I have no idea why parts of that got underlined.

And finally we now have the simple task of applying the base damage modifier and the trait damage modifiers to the base damage of the weapon’s attacks for both the guardian and the warrior.

Warrior:
Axe is 252, 538, 858. Multiplied by 412% = 1038, 2216, 3534. Multiply by trait damage mods of 37.12% = 1423, 3039, 4847.
Sum them together = 9310. Over 3.6 seconds = 2586dps.
Greatsword is 259, 259, 333. Multiplied by 412% = 1067, 1067, 1371. Multiply by trait damage mods of 43.6% = 1532, 1532, 1970.
Sum them together = 5032. Over 2.5 seconds = 2014dps.
For the lols: 100b base is 1624+406. Using the above multiplications it ends up as 12,010 over 3.5 seconds, or 3431dps. This is the reason swapping to greatsword for 100b then back to axe is beneficial if you have fast hands.

Guardian:
1h sword is 269, 269, 504. Multiplied by 404% = 1086, 1086, 2036. Multiply by trait damage mods of 27% = 1380, 1380, 2585.
Sum them together = 5346. Over 2.5 seconds = 2138dps.
2h sword is 296, 296, 453. Multiplied by 404% = 1195, 1195, 1830. Multiply by trait damage mods of 21% = 1446, 1446, 2214.
Sum them together = 5108. Over 2.5 seconds = 2043dps.

Excluded:
Eviscerate.
Might procs (guardian always gets them, warrior only on gsword or fast-hands-100b swaps).
Guardian 2h symbol.
Guardian burning (likely to be in the region of one 500 tick every 2.5 secs due to 5 attacks in sword chain with 20 might stacks for a total of +200dps assuming no other burners).
Warrior bleeds (likely to be 3 ticks of 90 every third strike. Or 2 applications per 3.6 sec axe chain for about 540/3.6 secs, or 150 dps).
Warrior vulnerability stacks through rending strikes.
Guardian vulnerability through symbols.
Warrior vulnerability stacks through axe #2 and mace #4.
Both are assumed to have fury. Both are assumed to have the same might stacks.

Summary:
It’s actually fairly close, but you have to look at the list of exclusions above. Personally I think the warrior would be preferred in a group due to the vulnerability, banner and fgj. Guardian’s just can’t give that amount of group dps.

A lot of the top end dungeon groups I’ve seen run mostly guardians and warriors for the natural cleave. I posted this on guru and figured some people may enjoy it. It’s a post about warriors vs guardians for dps. Which do you prefer playing? Which do you prefer in your group?

This will be a long one so stay with me. I always aim to explain my math. Please (politely) point out any mistakes.

At base stats, base crit dmg (150%) and base crit chance of 4% you will do 102% of your base damage.
For this argument of guardian vs warrior dps we can effectively ignore power unless one person will have more of it than the other. I will be relatively conservative and say we have received 916 power from our gear, thus doubling our base damage. We’re now at 204% of base damage.

Remember this number doesn’t need to be totally accurate since it will affect both the guardian and the warrior equally; I’m going to guess 30% crit chance from zerker gear since that plus 300 precision plus fury is roughly 68% crit chance, which once you factor in trait bonuses is fairly close to the 80%+ mark I see thrown around the forums.

Our damage is now 308% of our base damage. (+916 power for 200% base damage, 54% crit from fury + zerker gear, 200% crit modifier).

From here we can get some typical warrior base damage percentages:
Assume a 20/25/0/10/15 spec for 200 power, +250 precision, +15% crit damage.
Our damage unmodified by crit is now 2.22 times our base damage instead of 2 times our base damage due to the extra power.
Our damage modified by crit is now 412% of our base damage. (1116 power for ~222% base damage, 75% crit from fury + zerker gear + 250 precision + heightened focus and 215% crit modifier).

Our further damage mods are 10% to bleeding foes, 10% on greatsword or 5% on axe, 6% empowered, 12% zerker rage damage. So 10% + 10% + 6% + 12% = 43.6% damage compounded for greatsword or 10% +5% +6% +12% = .37.12% damage compounded for axes. Our overall damage is going to be 412% of the base damage of the skill, then modified by our traits. For example if the skill does 100 damage by default, it will now do 412 damage, and 591.6 after greatsword traits or 564.9 after axe traits.

Let’s do the same to the Guardian:
GK’s ultimate guardian build recommends 10/30/10/20/0 so I am going to use that.
Going back to our base point..
Our damage is now 308% of our base damage. (+916 power for 200% base damage, 54% crit from fury + zerker gear, 200% crit modifier).

From here we can get some typical guardian base damage percentages:
Assume a 10/30/10/20/0 spec for 100 power, +300 precision, +10% crit damage.
Our damage unmodified by crit is now 2.11 times our base damage instead of 2 times our base damage due to the extra power.
Our damage modified by crit is now 404% of our base damage. (1016 power for ~211% base damage, 83% crit from fury + zerker gear + 300 precision + 1h strength, and 210% crit modifier).

Our further damage mods are 10% to burning foes, 10% radiant power, 5% on 1h. So 10% + 10% + 5% = 27% damage compounded for 1h or +21% for greatsword. Our overall damage is going to be 404% of the base damage of the skill, then modified by our traits. For example if the skill does 100 damage by default, it will now do 404 damage, and 513 after 1h traits or 488.8 for greatsword.

How do you find event mob and wvw player tagging after the recent changes?
I just returned ankittenhinking about picking up my Mesmer but i don’t want to lose out on all the loot.

esport? Don’t you kinda have to balance the classes properly first?

Vendris.4201:

fadeaway.2807:

Man, I wish people like Vendris would actually play the class in question before commenting.

obvious troll is obvious.

That’s essentially what you wrote to me, I just assumed we were playing that mud slinging game.

Well most other attacks only fire once as opposed to multiple times.
Anyway, anet know the score, that’s why this change was made.

Besides , you should be thankful lit doesn’t have an obvious animation, your enemy will be blowing dodges early thinking you will bring out phantasms early. Use that to your advantage, psyche out your opponent in the same way 100b warriors do then nail them.

Man, I wish people like Vendris would actually play the class in question before commenting.

It wasn’t meant to be constructive, it was fact. I don’t see many other fire and forget skills which require no thinking about dodge, blind, immunity, blocking etc that do as much damage as phantasms. Everyone else has to play with these things in mind, I can’t think of any reason mesmers should not have to do so.

Yes I play a mesmer in hotjoin fairly often, yes it was easymode. And that’s coming from a thief.

#2:

I know, it’s horrible that you should be expected to land your skills like other players… as in no dodges, blinds, LoS etc. Terrible. How can you possibly play under these conditions?

That’s pretty much how dodging works buddy. I suggest you try counting how many times your opponent uses it before unloading your best moves. Kinda like when you play any other class.

Warrior, Thief and Mesmer.

I didn’t say viable, I said just as effective. That’s the problem, they’ve nerfed everything except 20k backstab bursts. (Well, they nerfed it a little…)
We’re pretty much forced into backstab builds nowadays because it’s head and shoulders above the rest of our options.

That’s pretty much how dodging works buddy. I suggest you try counting how many times your opponent uses it before unloading your best moves. Kinda like when you play any other class.

Show me a spec just as effective as backstab for my thief and I’ll use it.

I know, it’s horrible that you should be expected to land your skills like other players… as in no dodges, blinds, LoS etc. Terrible. How can you possibly play under these conditions?

I mean, I can still pump out 20k and drop people like they’re nothing.
But please show me a spec just as effective as backstab/shortbow, and I’ll be happy to switch to something less cheap. Oh wait, all my other specs suck.

TLDR:
Tone down burst.
Buff everything else.

PS – Scorpion wire – backstab is pretty funny.

Sorry but i have a top of the range water cooled graphics behemoth and still suffered from the same problems a everyone else.

I’m not trying to troll. I’m posing a serious discussion…

From what I can see, the main issues with these huge events are:
*Lag
*Rendering issues
*Poorly balanced mobs (one-shot to everyone in range is not fun)
*Zerg mentality (alt-tab afk ftw)

These issues could all be solved in 1 fell swoop; if each island was instanced and limited to a certain number of players (5? 10? 25?) then all of a sudden we don’t struggle to render all the people, the mobs can be balanced to pose a threat while not being overpowered, and what you do actually mattters. What I’m saying is that dungeons, raids etc were invented to avoid the sort of problems we are seeing.

Does anyone else feel this would have been far better as an epic multi player dungeon?
Could this extend to some of the more epic dynamic events which devolve into loot-tag fests?
The final problem with this is the holy trinity… I’m starting to miss it by the day.

I’m not worried about drops. Honestly I can’t understand when people complain about there not being a reward for doing this. The reward is the FUN. But honestly, is this fun?

What sort of reward are you expecting for doing the dungeon? There is little to no gear creep in this game. The reward is the sense of achievement and fun you have while playing. Do you honestly need a carrot in front of you to enjoy the game?

The tier 1 major trait in the shadow arts tree which applies regen to allies when you stealth includes yourself by the way. I’d take it
But then, I use shaman amulet (toughness, condition, healing) as the healing power causes leaching venoms to hit 500+.

missing on desolation too…

will be interested to see if you notice big changes post-patch

Don’t forget blinding powder will stealth your buddies and give them a sneak .

Seriously, it didn’t seem that bad to me.
Cloak and dagger damage decrease won’t stop the backstab , and dd was situational anyway. If you wrecked people before, you’ll still wreck them.

The only things which bug me are:
Backstab build is now more popular than before. Odd.
If our damage is nerfed too much our lower hp will be for nothing. There’s only so much extra power we can get from our sometimes better utilities.

Will this be another mmo which was mis-sold to me?
My credit card will probably accuse me of fraud if I add another mmo refund to the list!

Dagger storm, warrior stolen axe whirlwind, cluster and the fact that light combos are everywhere is enough to make me prefer physical damage, even if it’s soldier geared tanky damage.

Earthshaker is godly.

I can’t stand the concept of not getting tags because you were supporting or healing instead of doing damage…

How do you know that last part to be true, erebus?
That said, i wonder how much of the thief answers to this thread are because of rendering issues… I hope they don’t get nerfed too badly before the technical issue is fixed.

Curious, has anyone disproved any of this yet or is it generally accepted?

Interesting how people genuinely seem to think warrior ranged options are decent. I find arcing shot to be a terrible version of cluster, and combustion to be almost useless if another warrior or even burn ele has a similar plan.

WIWith the dominance of range, i’m surprised many people suggest warrior.

I found mesmers a little slow/annoying, even with focus swiftness.

I believe they will remove portal abuse in the 15th Nov patch, it’s just too gamechanging.

This should never have been pushed off page 1. Great work, thank you. Interesting to see high rank players ditching thieves and going for mesmers.

Absolutely agree with some of the posts above – I would have spend a couple of nights “grinding” this even if there was NO reward. I quite like the achievement badge because it shows that I did it, I can be proud of it. No matter how much time, how many friends, or how much of the previous tier some random guy grinded, he won’t be able to do what I just did unless he is actually good at this minigame.

“Yeah, other classes get punished when they miss their big attack by facing a CD”

Warrior burst attacks don’t. Neither does activated (or non activated) virtue of justice.

I’m sorry, but I’ve been playing my thief for about a week now…
I consider myself a decent warrior. But whether thieves are overpowered or I just play very well as a thief (I won’t argue either way, take this as an honest anecdote) I do a LOT better as a thief in hotjoins. Top or almost top every match. If someone annoys me I can drop them in seconds. Stealing during the c+d animation followed by a non signet backstab kills most other glass cannon builds quicker than I could have hoped for as a warrior even as 100b spec (which I did not play and do not like. I preferred hammer control). On top of that our shortbow does both incredible damage and allows me to escape from almost everything bad.

In short, I’m 10x happier and performing a lot better now that I rerolled thief. Whether the thief is op or I just play a better thief..well.. I’ll leave that open.

Again, good stuff. I took your advice last time and picked up spiked armor over whatever else I was using, now your 10/0/30/30/0 build is the same as the one I use.
I assume (due to the utilities) that most of the footage is of the 30/0/30/10/0 variant with zerker amulet? Are you preferring this route nowadays? The loss of FGJ is pretty harsh, I love that ~100pwr.

Any comments on build tweaks for WvW?

Different skills get a different amount of your healing stat. Mending for example gets 100%. For regeneration it is 0.125 * healing stat per second plus some other things (5 + (1.562 * Level) to be specific). If memory does not fail me, vigorous shouts are 0.8 * your healing stat +1192.

As you can see – adding 100 vitality will give you 1,000hp. Adding 100 compassion will give you 100hp via your healing ability. At first glance it appears compassion is useless.
If you look at shouts though, that 100 compassion will give 80hp to say… 5 people. You only need 2-3 of these shouts and your group as a whole has received more hp than the vitality would have given you as an individual. In WvW I can imagine this is quite powerful.

A case of personal preference though for sure.