I absolutely can’t stand running without speed runes anymore. I don’t care what kind of utility I get out of anything else for WvW, speed runes improve the feel of the class dramatically.
Just put the spreadsheet on google docs and allow people to save copies for local editing. That’s the easiest way to do it without coding something up in javascript and hosting it.
You’ve been beaten to the bunch. Look for Fadeaway’s calculations.
The sentiment these days by a lot of PvPers is that Greatsword isn’t a terribly amazing weapon, despite the leap+pull.
The only reliable anti-kiting strategy that I’m aware of is Hammer+Scepter and JI. Two immobs, Ring, and the teleport. But getting kited to kingdom come is a reality of the Guardian class.
so am I seeing this right, If you spent REAL cash on 3 sets of VIPER armor – you just got ripped off.
What’s the plan to refund people who spent money to get more than one set from the gem store and now its buy it once and you can use that armor on all their characters?
So far there is no plan, but we’ll see what happens after the patch.
Which is great for those items, but we still need to hear back from them on the subject of refunds for armor skin sets and the like.
I dont understand what he is LOOSING with this change?In fact he will be gaining the ability to get those weaps/armors on even more characters now!
He paid for a product which no longer works. If you buy two copies of the Grenth’s helmet off the gem store to use at some point on your characters, and you used one of them but not the other because you hadn’t gotten around to making your Necromancer yet, that second Grenth’s helmet no longer functions in any meaningful way. You get nothing for your gems.
that is because the first one he Bought now has an infinite Number of uses. So if he makes 5 alts… then each of THEM Now get FREE grenth helmets…should that person now have to pay MORE Money for the 3 free grenth helmets he got?
Look, Anet changed something… it happens. It says so on the box." Online experience may change "… if you come to an MMO and do not roll with the changes, maybe you do not understand how MMO’s work.
First off, your friend does not OWN 2 Grenth helmets… he paid for the use of the helmets they do not belong to him the way a pair of pants belongs to Him In the real world..Look over the TOS
Second the game reserves the right to change any aspect of the game any way they wish, at any time…. and if you do not agree with the changes you have the option to stop playing the game..but that is ALL you are entitled to.
If Anet decides to refund your friend, it is because they feel like it. not becaue it is OWED. Since some people are going around with this attitude, I would prefer Anet NOT refund anyone a dime. No one would appreciate it, and it sets a bad precedent.
It does not matter how many uses your original item now has after the patch. What matters is that the second item is now useless. You paid for a now useless item.
I have a guildie who is very upset that He spent months making money to buy multiple gem store items such as armor or weapon skins. To him, this feels like he had wasted months of his time on GW2 that he could have been doing other things now that the wardrobe is coming. I can sympathize with him and others who spent real money on the gem store to improve their looks. Just by making it unlimited does not mean their time had not been wasted anymore. I really do have to agree that anet should give refunds to these people if they request it.
So Anet decides that all His changes all the dyes he used on his character, are now account wide. And all the armor skins he bought to unlock it for that character, …are now account wide. He can in other words use the skins he paid Money for… and for free use them on alts… for example, and he has a nerve to be upset?
…
I Like the changes, it means I can easilly copy over all the skins that My mesmer unlocked, onto my elementalist and necromancer. All the dyes she bought, expensive ones Like Icing…Abyss…. I can save money by just using those On all my alts, not have to pay for each character to have abyss dye… if we do that math, that is a LOT of Gold saved.
I am confused. I do not see why your friend is complaining.
The point is that he spent real money to buy gems to buy the skins, but spent x-times as much as others did who only bought one skin. Anyone who did what he did paid more for the same product. When you spend real money for in game money and something goes wrong anyone would be upset.
I can understand that he is upset. What I am saying is, that he is Not automatically entitled to anything, simply because he is upset.
he CHOSE to buy in game gold with real cash? You stress this over and over. So what?
That does Not entitle him to a refund. Will Anet give him one? maybe they may, maybe they may Not. if they did I would send an email thanking them from the Bottom of My heart… because they do not owe your entitled friend a thing.
If it were me, I would Not refund it, simply because people feel they are entitled to refunds. As I said before… if you Buy a latte from starbucks for $3.99 do you come back the next week, and demand a refund if they are suddenly on sale for 50 cents less?
I feel bad your friend paid real world cash for multiple copies of the same item. But that doesn’t entitle him to a refund, No matter how badly he feels… “s*** happens.”
Your example isn’t even remotely applicable to the situation. There is no real life analog to this situation. The analog to your Starbucks analogy is “I bought some boots on the gem store, then they went on sale a week later.” There’s nothing wrong with that.
That’s also not what happened. What happened is that you bought three copies of a product, two of which have been taken from you as part of a redesign that allows you to infinitely make use of the third as long as you keep paying Anet for the privilege. They are taking it from you and not compensating you for it at all. That’s a problem.
Ok does he suddenly ONLY have ONE of the item? You said 2 were taken from Him. If he Bought three, and now he only has 1. I can see that he has a right to complain.
what happened was the Business Anet, changed so that what was a character bound item is now account bound…
Businesses change their Bisuness Models ALL the time. That doesn’t entitle your friend to a refund. I feel bad that he spent real world cash for these items, but..that doesn’t entitle him to a refund either.
It has nothing to do with a business model change either. See my earlier post about Genth’s helmets. You paid for a product which no longer functions.
I dont understand what he is LOOSING with this change?In fact he will be gaining the ability to get those weaps/armors on even more characters now!
He paid for a product which no longer works. If you buy two copies of the Grenth’s helmet off the gem store to use at some point on your characters, and you used one of them but not the other because you hadn’t gotten around to making your Necromancer yet, that second Grenth’s helmet no longer functions in any meaningful way. You get nothing for your gems.
I have a guildie who is very upset that He spent months making money to buy multiple gem store items such as armor or weapon skins. To him, this feels like he had wasted months of his time on GW2 that he could have been doing other things now that the wardrobe is coming. I can sympathize with him and others who spent real money on the gem store to improve their looks. Just by making it unlimited does not mean their time had not been wasted anymore. I really do have to agree that anet should give refunds to these people if they request it.
So Anet decides that all His changes all the dyes he used on his character, are now account wide. And all the armor skins he bought to unlock it for that character, …are now account wide. He can in other words use the skins he paid Money for… and for free use them on alts… for example, and he has a nerve to be upset?
…
I Like the changes, it means I can easilly copy over all the skins that My mesmer unlocked, onto my elementalist and necromancer. All the dyes she bought, expensive ones Like Icing…Abyss…. I can save money by just using those On all my alts, not have to pay for each character to have abyss dye… if we do that math, that is a LOT of Gold saved.
I am confused. I do not see why your friend is complaining.
The point is that he spent real money to buy gems to buy the skins, but spent x-times as much as others did who only bought one skin. Anyone who did what he did paid more for the same product. When you spend real money for in game money and something goes wrong anyone would be upset.
I can understand that he is upset. What I am saying is, that he is Not automatically entitled to anything, simply because he is upset.
he CHOSE to buy in game gold with real cash? You stress this over and over. So what?
That does Not entitle him to a refund. Will Anet give him one? maybe they may, maybe they may Not. if they did I would send an email thanking them from the Bottom of My heart… because they do not owe your entitled friend a thing.
If it were me, I would Not refund it, simply because people feel they are entitled to refunds. As I said before… if you Buy a latte from starbucks for $3.99 do you come back the next week, and demand a refund if they are suddenly on sale for 50 cents less?
I feel bad your friend paid real world cash for multiple copies of the same item. But that doesn’t entitle him to a refund, No matter how badly he feels… “s*** happens.”
Your example isn’t even remotely applicable to the situation. There is no real life analog to this situation. The analog to your Starbucks analogy is “I bought some boots on the gem store, then they went on sale a week later.” There’s nothing wrong with that.
That’s also not what happened. What happened is that you bought three copies of a product, two of which have been taken from you as part of a redesign that allows you to infinitely make use of the third as long as you keep paying Anet for the privilege. They are taking it from you and not compensating you for it at all. That’s a problem.
What is this talk about tonics? Can someone explain?
In the wardrobe post today, they mentioned that town clothes are going away as they know them. Full sets of outfits will be used as costumes and have their own slot, and be wearable in combat.
Pieces of clothes that were sold individually but are no longer available in the gem store – such as the Khaki Shorts, or the Cherry Blossom Shirt – instead will be turned into endless tonics. Activating one of these tonics will give you the item of clothing you bought, but will give you a generic outfit appearance for the rest of your outfit. For example, if you activate the Cherry Blossom Shirt tonic, you will get generic pants/boots/whatever. If you activate the Shorts tonic, you will get a generic shirt. The purpose of this is to prevent you from looking naked.
The problem is that you can only activate one tonic at a time, so if you were wearing multiple pieces of town clothes, the look you achieved is no longer possible.
I have absolutely no words for how completely insane this is. None at all.
Cue the legions of ignorant corporate apologists…
Anyone who spent more money than they have to after the patch should absolutely be compensated. They don’t have to have their money back, but at least give them their gems back.
If every member of your party loses 10% of their damage, your total party damage is reduced by 10%. Not 50%. I realize that’s an exaggeration on your part but it’s so wild that I think it needs to be clarified in case someone misunderstands.
Barring any other changes, I don’t think you have anything to worry about from the gestalt perspective either. No one’s utility has changed. Just damage. The inter-party synergies are the same.
I think they just mixed up focus5 and shield5.
A focus = sets up blocks for you.
A shield = creates a dome around you.Just seems kinda silly, not really complaining, they can both be nice, just joining in the laughing about this.
People have been asking for this for two years. I don’t think Anet is any closer to swapping them.
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No one said it was good. You’ve gone from saying that the shield isn’t realistic, to saying that the shield skills aren’t any good. Those are two completely unrelated ideas. I don’t particularly think the shield skills are any good myself, although I really enjoy Shield 5 as it has its moments.
I guess we should rename this to the Thread In Which Perikittenor Discovers Gamification Abstractions in Video Game.
Fun fact, shields were never used to block in reality. Anet has tough us that.
All three shield skillsets (Engineer, Warrior, Guardian) block things. If you’re going to be snarky at least be correct.
Correct, just Protection and a projectile absorb/heal skill. If you want straight up blocks, you have to use Shelter.
Or play as warrior…
Fun fact: Ignoring Aegis, we have 6 blocks, 3 of which are projectile only but have other properties as well. Warriors have 3 straight blocks. If you ignore the projectile blocks, we have as many blocks as warriors. If you don’t, we have twice as many. Then there is Aegis. We have two sources of Aegis, not including traits; warriors have zero.
Correct, just Protection and a projectile absorb/heal skill. If you want straight up blocks, you have to use Shelter.
Get rid of the signet. It’s just not worth it. Having Stand Your Ground would improve your survivability dramatically, as well as increasing your group utility. The 180 condition damage isn’t worth the utility loss. It will also give you more use out of Vengeful which is completely not worth having without a source of longer duration Retaliation.
Instead of Staff, swap to Greatsword. This will give you additional mobility which you’re going to need in order to kite and counter kiters while your Burn ticks. You’re never going to have an opportunity to drop Might in combat consistently, except for in groups. Because Burning takes advantage of your Condition Damage that you have right when it ticks, rather than when it was applied, even if you might up before you engage you’re not going to get the entire boost through your burns. Additionally, Binding Blade is a Condition Damage ability. It scales almost as hard as Burning does, and is uncleansable.
In terms of how much DPS you’ll get out of a build like that, it’s not bad. I don’t have time to run the exact numbers, but to give you a rough idea: You’re getting roughly 30% of the damage of an unbuffed, straight DPS build, which equates to about 800 dps from autoattacking plus the burn damage which is 1207/tick for a total of about 2000. Add Binding Blade and you get about 2500. Now you’re getting somewhere.
Power builds with your level of EHP typically get about 60% of a full damage setup. With a Sword AA that’s about 1600 DPS. But that’s unbuffed. So on the face of it you’re doing well, but then there’s the question of actual real-world Burning uptime, physical time-on-target, and so on. I don’t have those kinds of answers right now. Those numbers are also based on the current Berserker build and critical damage – with the update, you’re going to do comparatively more damage with respect to a Berserker. There are also going to be who knows how many other smaller changes, so it will be more helpful to evaluate this kind of build post-update rather than now. We’ll just have to see.
At 360 range you will never see that kind of thing in WvW because of how mobile small fights are. 360 range means you are lucky to hit one or two in your five man team.
>signet of wrath
close tab
The number one issue plaguing a condition build is that in order to pick up the condition traits you have to sacrifice all survivability, which is in contrast to what Engineers, Necromancers, and Warriors do – where they can pack on tons of tankiness to make the comparatively slow condition DPS a nonissue. It wouldn’t actually matter if we had stackable conditions. No one would do it because to make it viable damage, you have to give everything else up where no other class does.
Which of course isn’t to say that we shouldn’t bother with stackable conditions. We do need them. But it’s not a silver bullet.
The only thing we have going for us is that burning can be spread out over a huge swath of enemies in melee with Permeating Wrath. But it’s not enough, because you rarely see huge swathes of enemies.
It would be fun if Anet would release overpowered traits instead of boring, castrated ones. Then we can say “it was good while it lasted” when they inevitably nerf it instead of “I’ve never bothered.”
While we’ve already seen some interesting things in the new version of the runes of Balthazar, I was wondering what you thought about using sigils like the Sigil of Torment to add a separate condition to slow down removal, instead of further enhancing the burn?
It’s kinda pointless. Essentially what you’re saying is this: I’m going to sacrifice a damage multiplier or Sigil of Energy on a rune that I can’t control that might make it slightly more difficult to remove my Burns. The saving grace is that assuming you manage to stack a long duration Burn, the Torment will definitely be stripped first, as it’s typically going to be the most recent. At the moment, it’s not worth it though, because the damage bonus that you’d get from say a Force sigil, or the survivability bonus that you’d get from a Sigil of Energy far outweighs retaining the Burn – especially since A: Burning is easy to reapply anyway, and B: There are tons of big condition dump skills in the game. If you’re fighting another Guardian for example, you’re looking at Absolute Resolution (3), Purging Flames (3), Contemplation of Purity (all), PoV/Soldier shouts (2), Lyssa runes (all), and so on. It’ll take out your Torment and your Burning.
I don’t have that specific question built into my metrics that I’ve been using to evaluate things though, so I can’t give you a specific cost/benefit for it, but the above is what I would be concerned about.
I haven’t looked at it exhaustively, but barring any additional surprises Amplify Wrath isn’t going to be enough to make even a hybrid build worthwhile in terms of competing with the standard suite of DPS builds. But that’s using current numbers for critical damage, not the new ones. When we get precise conversions for Ferocity I’ll be able to make a more detailed comparison.
The worst part is, a 33% Burning damage bonus still doesn’t compensate for the DPS loss by investing in condition damage. Maybe it will once Ferocity comes into play, we’ll see.
It will be, but I’m holding off for the April update. Since they are completely redoing Runes and Sigils, plus giving us new Grandmasters for every line, there may be some significant new synergies that will come from it.
Their reasoning is completely baffling to me. “Here’s this great support line, let’s water it down with non-support.” Really? That’s your big, game-changing idea? Water down the traitline?
Searing Flames is great in duels. That’s it. If it’s just you and one other person, the extra vuln isn’t doing too terribly much. Since you’re looking at proccing it every sword auto chain, and every smite, plus off of every other fifth hit in a row, it goes off without much issue at all. They recently dropped the cooldown of it, and made it so that it only ever goes off if they actually have a boon to strip. So between those two improvements it’s a much better dueling trait than it was in the past. It’s particularly useful against other classes with Protection, as well as stripping Regen and Vigor off of people. It’s not game changing but it’s a big swing in your favor if you can strip someone’s Protection right before a CoL + Smite/ZD combo.
If you have a partner, or you’re facing more than one enemy, it’s outclassed by having more vuln.
Here are some things to note:
First, the tooltip uses 2600 armor for its damage calculation. If the enemy has more, or less, than 2600 armor you will do damage that is not consistent with the tooltip.
Second, the tooltip erroneously lumps two projectile hits in with the damage numbers of the tooltip. In reality, the tooltip should read 7 hits + 7 hits to reflect the fact that there are 7 separate projectiles on top of the melee hits. The projectiles do about a third of the main hit damage. Therefore, the tooltip will again be erroneous depending on how many projectile impact the target.
I use the build Carpboy linked. It’s really good. I completely ravaged a warrior with it the other day in about twenty seconds, and this was a duel we both knew was coming. I use slightly less Cav and more Valk instead though to get my HP up to 16k which is more comfortable for resisting bursts and conditions, at least for me. I also use Searing Flames rather than Blind Exposure, I find the boon stripping to be more useful than the Vuln for duels, but for group work I’d stick with BE since you’re more likely to Vuln more than one guy at a time, thus making it more worthwhile.
The DPS difference between 15/15/0/30/10 and 15/0/0/30/25 is negligible. On the order of 1-2%. The only exchange worth talking about is blinds versus condition clearing, and that’s a matter of preference and group composition.
Wrong. 15/15 boosts the whole group’s damage by the vuln stacks via symbol and VoJ active, which can be seen as a damage increase of >10 % for the guardian.
Did you even read what I said? Both builds I listed have 15 Zeal. The only point of comparison is VoJ spam which only applies during trash fights, not during (most) boss fights.
I don’t think symbol + WW counts. That whirl finisher throws out one cleansing bolt every second of the whirl, which means it sends out two for Whirling Wrath, and the odds of them both A: heading toward a player and B: hitting someone with an actual condition are pretty slim.
15/25/0/20/10 is only a better choice if you are going for damage. Do I need to remind you you’re posting in a tank thread?
After tinkering with the hammer,ill say it’s pretty cool an seems to have a lot of group defensive benefits.Can someone direct me to a good Hammer build?
Good for what?
And the “obvious reasons” for 25 virtues are what exactly? 10 points there, for all the benefits of MoC. There’s nothing beyond it that’s a necessary choice, which frees up further 15 points. Hence, 15/15/0/30/10 (which is, in the end, another variation of the typical hammer builds) is an option I’d definitely prefer. Superior DPS and superior group support via blind spam and vuln stacking at the price of a bit burst condition cleansing.
For Absolute Resolution and Power of the Virtuous. 1200 range AOE cleanse and heal plus constant bonus damage from boons. That’s pretty obvious to me.
The DPS difference between 15/15/0/30/10 and 15/0/0/30/25 is negligible. On the order of 1-2%. The only exchange worth talking about is blinds versus condition clearing, and that’s a matter of preference and group composition.
If you double up on two handers, that means you’ll want a lot of Honor for symbols, Mastery, possibly shouts, things like that. That leaves 40, 25 of which should go into Virtues because of obvious reasons. Then with the mandatory 10 Zeal for more damage, you’re left with 5 points, which leaves you with crappy minors, Blind on VoJ which isn’t tooooo terribly useful without a full 15 Radiance for that synergy, and a GM Virtues option. With GS/Hammer Permeating Wrath becomes viable, alternatively you can pick up an additional stunbreak, or Unscathed, etc etc.
That’s the reasoning. All predicated on the notion of being sturdier. Otherwise I’d just say go with the GS damage meta but he doesn’t want to do that.
Brace yourself for a parade of people saying “there is no such thing as tanking in this game.”
Which is absolutely true, there isn’t. There’s no way to hold aggro. Any weapon is a tanking weapon in that respect. But to answer your question: As far as you can build defensively, Greatsword is just as good a weapon as any, although Hammer or Mace/Focus are far better for survivability. Greatsword/Hammer on swap for the Hammer AA, and the GS burst, works pretty well. You’ll want to build something like 10/0/0/30/30, something high in Virtues and Honor.
It proves that Purging Flames would tag or not. If you’re zerg farming and you’re not in a full party you’re doing it wrong anyway, so doing enough damage to tag shouldn’t be a problem
No, what it proves is that Purging Flames is basically just like almost every other Guardian ability aside from our burst skills: You can’t just hit it once and expect it to tag. Same with Autoattacking, single Symbols, Smite Condition, and so on. Very few things will successfully tag in one shot during a busy zerg.
That doesn’t really prove anything though, because it’s well known that if you don’t contribute enough damage to a monster to fully tag it, you won’t get anything from it when you’re out zerging events. That’s not unique to PF.
Berserker, Soldier, Cav mix. Soldier and Cav get you your defensive stats, Zerk and Cav get you your Crit Damage and Zerk and Radiance get you your crit. Best to run Soldier/Zerker for the power primary stat loadout and salt with Cavalier.
You can also replace some Soldier with Valkyrie instead for improved damage at the cost of some toughness, while maintaining the HP level you need for WvW.
Worthless without high critical chance. What’s your build?
25 Radiance is always going to do more damage than 25 Zeal for a scepter/staff buld. It’s not rocket science. Think about it: Symbolic Power ONLY applies to symbols. You ONLY have a symbol on one weapon. In order to take it and still keep 30 Virtues, you can’t have both Symbolic Power and Radiant Power. You can still take Scepter Power. If you do 25 Zeal, you have +10% Scepter damage, and when you’re on Staff you have +10% damage to Symbol of Swiftness.
If you go 25 Radiance you have +10% damage to Scepter, and +10% damage to Focus, and +10% damage to everything on the Staff, not just Symbol of Swiftness. In case you weren’t counting, that’s a lot more damage, and all the time.
Now it’s a dungeon build. Signets are terrible, don’t use them. You’re missing out on some great (and frankly, much more mage-like utilities) by doing so. If you’re purely ranged you really don’t need Honor 5, since you’re not going to be in the thick of it anyway. Better to put the last points in Virtues to give you either ranged Consecrations (to fit with your ranged magey theme) or something else useful like Shielded Mind or Unscathed Contender.
WoW
Never saw something like this but this got me curious
Although I think its a waste going 30 in Radiance and get all Signet traits with only one signet. Why not smething like this:The support incrises. Damage might be a bit less but not much, lost Radiant Power but gained Scepter Power and Symbolic Power, also this build will give more vunerability each is much better for the group. Also since most ime you will be at close 600 range, the risk for getting hit is less and so Scholar will be much better than Ruby Orbs and Ruby Orbs should be only an option till you are able to get Scholar.
I might even try this out my self, I’m curious of what this can be capable of.
Leaving the signet traits is a waste, I was just forgetful and didn’t actually look at what Radiance traits were selected. Thanks for pointing that out.
Symbolic Power is totally useless though unless you have either two symbol weapons (i.e. staff and mace) or a Hammer. Even then it’s not great. At that point I would run 20/20/0/0/30 with Blind Exposure and Signet Mastery for the better recharge on the heal.
Edit: Actually, you know what, I’d still always go 10/30 or 15/25 minimum because of Radiant Power. Radiant Power is way better than Scepter Power, especially with Right Hand Strength.
(edited by foofad.5162)
Filthy casuals.
Not gonna lie, I’m actually completely distracted by a combination of school and Space Engineers right now. It’s still coming, I promise.
Now it’s a dungeon build. Signets are terrible, don’t use them. You’re missing out on some great (and frankly, much more mage-like utilities) by doing so. If you’re purely ranged you really don’t need Honor 5, since you’re not going to be in the thick of it anyway. Better to put the last points in Virtues to give you either ranged Consecrations (to fit with your ranged magey theme) or something else useful like Shielded Mind or Unscathed Contender.
(edited by foofad.5162)
Reduction Dommage is calculated that way : ((Armor-1836)/Armor)x100.
Example: You have 2400Armor : ((2400-1836)/2400)x100=24% Reduction Dmg.
Now you decide to add 100 toughness: 2500 Armor = 27% Reduction Dmg.
See? 3% Reduction dmg gained for 100 toughness.Now you have 3200 armor : ((3200-1836)/3200))x100=43% Reduction Dmg.
You decide to add 100 toughness: 3300 armor : ((3300-1836)/3200))x100=44% Reduction Dmg.
See? 1% Reduction dmg gained for 100 toughness.Remember that 100 toughness isn’t worth the same at 2600 than at 3200.
I explained why this is not the right way to look at it in my post, take a look at it.
I don’t even know where to start. This kind of hypersensitive criticism is unnecessary and unwarranted. He misspoke. Get over it. This is not front page news. People misspeak all the time. All the time. If you can speak at all, you have misspoken before and will again. This doesn’t warrant a thread, much less discussion.
Did you even read the post above yours before you launched into your own hypersensitive criticism?
It was supposed to be a joke :[ I thought the italics nailed it.
I don’t even know where to start. This kind of hypersensitive criticism is unnecessary and unwarranted. He misspoke. Get over it. This is not front page news. People misspeak all the time. All the time. If you can speak at all, you have misspoken before and will again. This doesn’t warrant a thread, much less discussion.
snip
I’m sorry, but no. That’s not diminishing returns. Here’s why.
As already noted, doubling your armor doubles your damage reduction. That’s a proportional relationship based on the fact that armor divides the damage you take. As such, you can also say that Health * Armor is a meaningful relationship, because again – damage is proportional to Armor. If you double Armor, you take half damage, ergo your effective health (after damage reduction from armor) increases proportionally to your armor.
So when you say that 1000 damage / 20 armor = 50 damage, you also say that 1000 health*20 armor = 20,000 effective health.
Now I know that looks crazy, but it isn’t at all. Reason being: 20*1000=2000. Basically what 20,000 effective health is saying is that an enemy whose damage before armor is 1000 has to hit you twenty times in order for him to hit you for 1000 damage after armor.
Now double your armor.
1000 damage / 40 armor = 25 damage. 1000 HP * 40 armor = 40,000. Twenty points of armor is worth exactly the same amount of effective health regardless of how much you have, every time. If there were diminishing returns, you would have less than 40,000 EHP. But there aren’t, because it’s proportional. You can do this all day. Let’s pick a weird number, like 67, because why not. 1000 / 67=14.92. 1000 HP * 67 = 67,000. The difference between 40 and 67 is 27. 67,000 is 27000 higher than 40,000. An enemy would have to hit you 67 times at 1000 damage in order to hit kill you, 27 more times than at 40 damage.
All of this is to say that every point of armor is worth exactly the same amount of effective HP for any given amount of starting HP. Therefore, armor does not decrease in effectiveness the more you have.
So why doesn’t that jive with what you’ve said? It does make sense – the math isn’t wrong. It just doesn’t mean what you think it means.
You boiled it down nicely, but misinterpreted it. For each point of armor you have, the less each additional point of armor is “worth”. In other words, if you have 1000 armor and increase it by 1, 1000/1001 = .99 rather than 1 – .99 is less than 1. Of course it is. All you’re saying with that statement is that when you compare 1000 to 1001, each point contributes proportionally less to 100%. But that’s it. That’s as far as that statement extends. It’s not that armor contributes less. It’s that the more of it you have, the smaller percentage each individual point represents of the total because duh. To use your numbers again: 45 armor / 40 armor is an increase of 12.5%. 1000 damage / 45 armor = 22.22. 1000 damage / 40 armor is 25. The difference between 25 and 22.22 is 12.5%. A 12.5% increase in armor yielded a 12.5% increase in benefit, which in turn yields a 12.5% increase in effective health, and a 12.5% increase in the number of 1000 damage hits you can take.
No, armor never diminishes in effectiveness, because its actual benefit (increasing the number of hits it takes to KO, or increasing EHP) scales linearly. Any % increase in armor also increases the number of hits you can take before getting KOed by that same %.
(edited by foofad.5162)
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