Guild Wars 2

Tulisin.6945:

The fact of the matter is that stealth is a short term skill, and not very useful as an escape method without mobility.

Even with Fleet Shadow a 4 second stealth can only take you about to a 1200-1400 range, not far enough to disappear.

slender.1482:

Also, how does shadow rejuvenation (regen health in stealth – shadow arts) compare to shadow protector (stealthing an ally grants rejuv for 5 sec – shadow arts)

• Rejuvenation is always applied, Protector is not applied when health regen is already present,
• Protector can help allies.
• Protector is applied upfront, so you can stealth and hit your stealth attack and still get healed for the full amount while rejuvenation heals more the longer you stay in stealth.
• Over the full 4 seconds, rejuvenation heals more – you can get swarmed by mobs and heal up completely with a couple well timed C&D
• Rejuvenation is a Grandmaster level trait, Protector Adept, 30 vs 10 point required rejuvenation gives more build freedom.

The healing from Assassins reward pales in comparison to Rejuvenation, but still adds up, add in a healing skill and you could come out of stealth with almost half of your healthpool refilled, which can be disheartening for your opponent(s).

Still missing, today I noticed it wasn’t on my PvP tab, I assume it never was there. How can I PvP if I can’t have my fiery dragon sword?

Shadowstepping, it has undoubtedly been reported before, is bugged, glitched and inconsistent.

Docherty.8372:

ASP.8093:

So, what is it exactly that GW2 is supposed to learn from Dungeons & Dragons (3rd edition)?

That it’s systems should at least try to make a lick of sense, and have ways to be countered

HIPS – Hide in Plain Sight

DnD wasn’t meant for computer games and it’s rules are not fit for them, there’s way too many trash mobs in computer game which make the DnD rules unbalanced.

Thunderbrew.7034:

… I took a screen shot if anyone
wants to inform me how to post it.

Below the text box are ‘Misc Options’, below that it says Attachments. You can upload images as attachments

Sil.4560:

I’m not here to argue some semantic crap with you, guy.

Lets put it in simpler terms, the way in which you put something down and the choices you make from the available alternatives reveal a lot about your attitude, and who you are.

… In no way does the above statement even make sense,

I half expected that, let me put it in a more direct manner then, you attack someone in the same post where you complain about feeling attacked.

I don’t much care how you interpret my posts,

You choose your words, and with them the interpretation. I can not read your mind. Stop avoiding responsibility for your words.

It appears to be a bit of a pattern:
“You’d be reading that to be deliberately obtuse then”

It actually is relevant, because it effectively allows the Thief to retreat just far enough away to reset the fight whenever he or she chooses.

The reset is shared, you’re both on a fresh start, just as it would have been had he been defeated, waypoint travel is fast and free. Now if you learned more from him then he from you, the next encounter end even more in your favour.

And, did he return?

The Vista in Bore Lynch does not respond to ‘interact’.

Sil.4560:

Here’s another one: What you just said should be understood as common sense. I’m not going to sugar coat everything I say with “in my personal opinion”, etc.

I read what you write, not what you intended to say, and I am not going to blame myself for not being psychic. Your choice of a particular expression from a number of alternatives is your choice alone and it has consequences for how your messages is read.

What it should be is determined by the vision of the makers and if the books are an indication of this vision, a Thief being able to get away from a nasty situation is part of that vision.

Obviously if this vision weren’t open to some sort of flexibility, they would not have created a feedback thread asking for player opinion on the matter.

I guess we have different opinions then.

… calling me a hypocrite …

You are using inconsistent mind against somebody while you complain when I say your posts sound spoiled. That’s a rather … inconsistent view I think.

As I said, I’m not going to sugar coat my posts. Don’t like that I use the word “should” instead of “I don’t like”? Tough kitten.

Well, then, you don’t like it if your posts come over as spoiled? Though kitten.

Correct. Although it doesn’t really address the issue that they can hang around and fight until they know they can’t win, and still have a 100% escape route. There doesn’t seem to be much of any actual risk to the Thief.

Escape is irrelevant, the objective is to protect / destroy the resource shipment, you succeeded, he failed. Wvw is not about killing pc’s, that may be a means to a goal, but it is not a goal in itself (unless it is a goal you set for yourself).

Edit;
To Add, I find escape irrelevant compared to the actual balance during a fight. We can look at issues between fights when professions are well balanced during a fight.

Traits in this notation are as they appear in your Hero window:
Deadly Arts / Critical Strikes / Shadow Arts / Acrobatics / Trickery.

Like Tulsin says, don’t worry about builds too much, experiment and enjoy the game while following the story, and doing hearts and events.

Sil.4560:

What I’m saying is that no class should just have the opportunity to run away from any given situation, 100% of the time, whenever they please,

The use of ‘should’ is rather inappropriate here, the game is not designed to your wishes. That some may be able to run away from a lost fight with you may not be to your liking, but it’s just that, what you like or don’t like. What it should be is determined by the vision of the makers and if the books are an indication of this vision, a Thief being able to get away from a nasty situation is part of that vision.

As to your complaint, your posts sound spoiled because of the use of ‘should’ where ‘_I (don’t) like_’ is more appropriate.

… in your inconsistent mind …

Pot, kettle, black.

The problem is that they can disappear and take off in any given direction and the terrain – or culling – will more often than not give them ample time to be invisible forever, …

The most reusable source of stealth yields 3 seconds of stealth, 4 when traited for it. Not enough to disappear from sight without using the terrain, obstacles and height differences to break the line of sight, npc’s to get a new cloak from. Whether this is considered skill or not is up to the reader. Culling needs to be fixed, I don’t think anyone disagrees on that point.

More often than not, these Thieves will be the ones attacking our own Dolyaks and so must be dealt with.

So, actually you did win the fight? He was chased off and the Dolyak saved?

The first reply stated regeneration stacks duration, which it doesn’t when coming from Shadow Protector. The general nature of that post prompted me to post.

Shadow Protector only stacks with Hide in Shadows and I assume that is because HiS has stealth applied first, as it’s own regeneration would stack with that from SP. I am positive I tested HiS, but I could be wrong in my recollection of the results, I just concluded that it had little application, beyond solo play.

Thanks for the info.

Neko.1860:

http://i47.tinypic.com/dxivlk.png

This is my level 34 thief it’s weapon switch is the Pistol version of those daggers and another one of those daggers

^.^ I like the color scheme

Which ones are those?
I’d really like something to match the fiery dragon sword skin

Interestingly enough it only stacks with the regen from Hide in Shadows? It doesn’t stack in other applications, SR will not give more then 5 seconds of regeneration, C&D before your previous regeneration end and you will not get the boon. I suggest you test your intended usage pattern. If it would stack always it would be in a good position to replace shadow’s rejuvenation.

The hp-regen from the trait does not stack with any pre-existing hp-regen

Rainu.6871:

It’s the difference of using up two utility skills for it or taking a 20pt trait that boosts an already very powerful skill/mechanic.

Only 20 trait points? That ‘powerful’ mechanic requires investing 30-60 trait points to become ‘powerful’.

Nate Rush.6970:

You’re getting off topic. This is about stealth being broken, which can only relate to thieves.

It all ties together, can’t discuss stealth without discussing defence and offence.

Duration was reduced slightly, 2 or 3 month ago.

Ekove.4586:

I think most of us understand how stealth work, and nobody can find a reliable skill based counter to it.

You are in the wrong game. It’s not about the skills on your skill bar.

Sil.4560:

….
Going completely invisible in broad daylight in front of half a dozen people doesn’t make any sense to begin with. I thought I was fighting a Thief? Or does he have the One Ring?

Bagginsss …. Ssssshire …. Thief ….

I can feel no sympathy for your group trying to gank a lone player and finding he’s thief and more slippery then you could handle. It sounds a bit spoiled, like you feel you had something unjustly taken from you.

Maybe you and your friends could have spend the time you spend on ganking lone players killing supply Dolyaks. Maybe then a thief trying to work against you will not simply run off to do something else.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Also, you made the Ele run away. Isn’t that like a win?

You’re missing, or rather deliberately omitting, the context of his post. Sil was originally complaining about not being able to catch the thief and make the kill.

S/D + D/D oh my…

CriSPeH.8512:

Every Thief claims the " counter" to stealth is to just AoE because you can still take damage while you are stealthed and yet you also claim that AoEing things you can’t see is wasting your CD.

I’d think it is better to only use AoE against (preferably) multiple targets that have a ‘reason’ to not move out of the AoE quickly. Reasons could be being stunned or chilled or any other CC effect that grounds them there, or not wanting to be revealed when leaving SR.

Stiv.1820:

I wanted my non base precision to be perfectly dividable by 21 which I was able to do with this food and a combo of gear.

It’s not exactly 21. The wiki mentions 21.16 and I found 21.068. The first requires you to add an additional point of precision for every 126, for the second +1 every 300, roughly
More accurate: Pc = (-39.349 + 0,0475 * Precision) / 100 (when precision > 916)

Very likely not, it doesn’t trigger other on-heal effects and it would be way way OP for that one.

If that is true … I need to get a cheap sword to test this. Does it stack with the mesmer runes? And if you’re correct on the rounding, a minor sigil would have the same effect?
Edit: Seems to work as you claim.

Yes, it is also AoE when centred around the caster, sometimes referred to as PBAoE. AoE does not break stealth (from the terget), it does damage them and you can see the damage in the Combat log.

Caelib.2497:

I agree 100%. I think all stealth (Mesmer and Thief) should be non-combat.

Lets make all forms of healing and damage mitigation (like blocking, protection, etc…) non-combat. Then we’re all left with dodges and attacks.

Tulisin.6945:

Except Natural Vigor and Vigor don’t stack. Dunno if there’s a limit to endurance buffs or just a hardcap at 100 %, but using both isn’t any better than using Vigor.

Feline Grace actually does stack multiplicatively because it uses a different mechanic to achieve the result.

And here I was thinking they’d used a different ‘mechanic’ to allow it to stack with Vigor :s

Welcome.

I think you need to unlock all skills in one group (tier) before you can move on to the next.

Skills for weapons are unlocked by equipping the weapon and fighting with it and although D/D and P/P solid choices are I’d recommend trying out all weapon combinations you can make and unlock their skills.

Don’t worry about builds yet, spend skill points, and later on trait points, as seems best, or the most fun. Don’t by too much gear, live from the land, you level up and outgrow your gear quickly. Follow the story and the hearts ans any event that crosses your path and enjoy.

Similar to how Toughness works with Healing and Natural Vigor stacks with Vigor. +50% endurance regen adds up to 3 dodges where you’d have 2 otherwise, and +150% (x 2.5) is much like +100%/0.85 (x 2.35)

Docherty.8372:

frans.8092:

Ranger and Engineer have traits that grant them +50% endurance. It’s not Vigor, so I guess it stacks with Vigor, which they can get from traits like Vigorous Renewal.

Ranger heals have longer cooldowns, hence lower Vigor uptime, and overall lower total endurance regen than Thief.

We weren’t talking about Vigor, but Endurance regeneration, nice of you to skew the discussion by trying to limit it to Vigor.

The Ranger trait Natural Vigor has 100% uptime without needing any additional skills to be used, like Vigorous Recovery needs, and while Vigor has a higher regen, his trait would require the thief to use/waste his healing skill at least once every 20 seconds to keep up with the ranger’s passive ability.

Egineer, as far as I know has no way to give himself vigor – if he does I’ll require enlightening.

Here is some enlightenment then, like the ranger, Engineer has a trait that increases Endurance regeneration by 50%; Vigorous Recovery without needing any extra healing skills used.

frans.8092:

frans.8092:

It’s Guildwars, not D&D.

No duh?

D&D is a table-top, round based game. If the difference with a real-time action based computer game elude you then you shouldn’t bring up D&D here.

frans.8092:

Docherty.8372:

So does Mesmer – but neither don’t get a trait which doubles their base endurance regen at the same time, like Thief.

Which one is that? The vigor-on-healing trait does require a heal skill activated (rather then being permanently on or crit-proc) which basically ties you into Withdraw as healing skill to make it useful.

Feline Grace returns 50% of endurance used post-roll,

No, it doesn’t, more enlightenment for you, Feline Grace return 15% of the used endurance.

Withdraw is my choice of Thief healing skill, because it’s kittening great even without being a particularly effective heal.

It’s no longer a heal when you use it to trigger Vigor every 15 seconds, it may well be in cool-down when you do need a heal..

I couldn’t make sense of your last paragraph.

I am not claiming we don’t have good access to good endurance regeneration but it’s far from superior to what others get, I’d rather have the Natural Recovery version.

Docherty.8372:

“boo-hoo, without our totally broken class-mechanic we will have no defences”

Here I come to say:

“wait a minute… you can achieve a rate of endurance regen which lets you evade just about any time you care to press the roll button, and have access to some of the best (non-stealth) evasive utilities in the game”

Any profession has dodge and many can regenerate endurance as fast, or faster, or easier, as the thief. On top of this evasion, where other professions have ways to limit or prevent damage, like blocking and protection, the thief relies on stealth to make it harder to get hit. Break stealth, or make it even easier to hit thieves in stealth then it is and, without the other tools to mitigate damage, the thief can never win.

Docherty.8372:

I wouldn’t call potential 66% Vigor up-time pitiful. Considering you (can if you want) get Feline Grace as well, does any other class get faster/more endurance regen? Not that I know of.

Ranger and Engineer have traits that grant them +50% endurance. It’s not Vigor, so I guess it stacks with Vigor, which they can get from traits like Vigorous Renewal.

Achetypically (I’m thinking D&D

It’s Guildwars, not D&D.

Docherty.8372:

So does Mesmer – but neither don’t get a trait which doubles their base endurance regen at the same time, like Thief.

Which one is that? The vigor-on-healing trait does require a heal skill activated (rather then being permanently on or crit-proc) which basically ties you into Withdraw as healing skill to make it useful.

It has a very narrow area of effect and only during a short time, less then a second. Works best with groups and/or when dodging straight through them

Fleet Shadow does not give a 50% movement speed increase, not while out of combat and not while in combat.

Compared distances we could run while in a 4 second stealth with swiftness or this trait and they’re the same, hence, Fleet Shadow is not working properly.

Stealth doesn’t shield you from damage. Mobs will only drop aggro from you and stop attacking you. However, some channelling skills will continue to ‘track’ you while in stealth.

I generally find stealth to work well for dropping aggro and trigger it’s traits.

You must not leave the shadow refuge before it ends and it’s AoE circle disappears, or you will be revealed.

Sometimes your visual appearance does not reflect your ‘stealthed state’ properly, this is a bug. Watch the messages, if it says ‘Immune’ when you tried to enter stealth, you were ‘Revealed’ and stealth failed.

Some weapons have a tendency to auto-attack, revealing you, also, right clicking a mob will start auto-attack (another bug), so be careful when you use that for turning.

Pope.1469:

… He lost the fight, he should be finished off after he exhausts all his downed skills _like any other class.

He planned his escape, good player skill and use of his resources, I’d say.
PvP’s goals are not in killing PC’s, so there is no ‘should be finished’, all that counts is meeting the format’s objectives and while killing pc’s can be a means to complete these objectives, it’s not an objective in itself.

Nate Rush.6970:

The problem with the class is how many have already stated, the ability to act without consequence.

Consequences as you picture them do not match up with PvP in this game. Guildwars PvP is not your avarage MMO with PvP servers where pc’s attack each other in the open (PvE) world and fight to the death, but about gaining control over resources and strategic points on the map. While in an average MMO’s pvp server the consequence of a lost fight may be the pc’s (temporary) death, in this game the consequence to loosing a fight is loosing control over a resource or a strategic location on the map.

They have the most ways of moving out of, or plain out removing immobilize than any other class.

Actually, only Rangers have fewer utility skills to break stun, all others have 4 or 5 skills. Immobilized is a condition and any form of condition removal will end it, but along with thief a couple of professions have one or more skills to removes it specifically.

ShaunZ.1098:

So the answer to beating a thief is partying up? How many people should it take to be able to beat 1? Isn’t that the definition of over powered?

One. If twelve couldn’t catch him, they were not cooperating.

Group stealth as in Shadow Refuge on a down teammember, yes, if they know you’re about to cast it and stop attacking. Otherwise people just tend to not notice the stealth, or not timely and waste it.

You’ll just have to wait 10 seconds. Shadows Refuge is the support skill for thieves rezzing downed team-members, it works as intended but you’re suggesting to obliterate it so you are never inconvenienced with guessing or waiting for the eternity of 10 seconds.

Lol, that’s my trait distribution. But I don’t have venoms, nothing in the traits suggests using them

You don’t get that much from +healing, it’s more like Shadows Rejuvenation goes from 300 to 400.

I am no fan of venom’s, they don’t hit so hard and for your healing, they’re on long cool-downs and the when of I-need-some-healing will not always coincide with the when in die-already!. Stealth works better in that aspect, you’d usually seek stealth either use sneak-attack or backstab, or to withdraw from too much damaging attention. You free up skill-slot for things like stunbreakers and shadowstepping and shadow-arts has just more usefull major’s to choose from to adapt to a situation. And you don’t really need Cleric’s gear, just berserker, soldiers, knights, carrion, that sort of stuff

Rayya, he’s D/D + SB – but I agree on the stunbreaker.

Vestar.7293:

Hi guys!
And how can i reach Orr?

Follow the story.

Tested and confirmed, applying stealth before the health regeneration ends, from both this trait and Hide in Shadows, will not add to the duration.

Traits depends on how you play and use these weapons. Heavy hitting, burst or sustained, stealth, mobility.

Runes, sigils, trinkets and armor tune in with those, complementing or further specializing the choices made with the traits. Armor and runes are also the most expensive and harder to change then skills, traits, trinkets and weapons.

Stiv.1820:

frans.8092:

Maybe PBAoE doesn’t have to be circular, I mean, it’s Point Blanc Area of Effect, could also be cone shaped, as long as it originated from the character.

That CAoE. These are older MMO terms.

LoL!
You got me!

All the complaints originate from WvW, rarely PvP (Wvw =/= PvP).

Even the QQ about thieves doesn’t mention 28k in total. People here jump of the roof over a 14k, maybe 20k combo, or a 6k backstab, whatever and when it is 20k+, it’s because they were boon stacked, just as that warrior. Combo, thief has no single skill to deliver that amount of hurt, their combo takes three or four well executed skills, and while it may not root them, it’s situational and has to be prepared.

Maybe PBAoE doesn’t have to be circular, I mean, it’s Point Blanc Area of Effect, could also be cone shaped, as long as it originated from the character.

Rayya.2591:

if you would actualy read what i write is an response to lucky’s post regarding counter glass cannon.
you get 5 hs and 1 bs in exactly 4 seconds without quickness. use that and time is 1/2

I read what you wrote:

Rayya.2591:

the skill is called 100 blades – it has 3.25 seconds cast time and is imobile, Moreever is casted on an npc with vulnerability up. Warrior has 23 sacks of might , arround 4300-4500 p attack. In order to cast 100 B on an player at full potential , you must find an player without condition removal , stunbreaker , invulnerability / mobility skills. and 2 guardians to buff you with might ^^. good luck on that
compared with backstab , 0.25 cast time -12.000 you can cast also 5 heartseekers in that time and 3 normal hits ^^ , and move meantime.
I do not complain about thief, but do not make ridiculous comparations

Which is “the skill is called 100 blades – it has 3.25 seconds cast time …. compared with backstab , 0.25 cast time -12.000 you can cast also 5 heartseekers in that time and 3 normal hits”

3.25 seconds is the only time-span you mention, and according to what you posted, one can do 5 heartseekers and 3 normal hits in that time. If you meant something else, your post has failed to pass your message properly.

Rayya.2591:

You know that in order to counter steal C/d backstab combo from an glass cannon thief ( with basilik vennom or daze on steal) you must have 1-2 dodge rolls Up , 1 stun breaker and – 1 movement ability available to use or 1 area disable -
So in order to counter thieves we must do all that ?

Wait, you’re actually saying it’s problematic to use a stun-breaker, dodge and some cc, yes, all of those during a fight? Yes, to counter thieves you sometimes need to be able to dodge and roll and cc and break stun. Wow, man, life’s a kitten and then you die.
These skills come in handy to counter just about anything that didn’t instantly die in awe before your might.

Rayya.2591:

been there, done that , 700 + h in wvw with thief, 17000 kills with thief in wvw .

Then you’re lying, you don’t get 5 heartseekers and 3 autoattacks in 3.25 seconds.