Guild Wars 2

Klaus.8326:

Power or Cond thief?

I don’t think condition is suitable for zerg, but then again, blasts will still work and if you target those who got separated from the herd they’ll not benefit from the group cleanses.

Klaus.8326:

A quick Question.
Power/Critical Vs Condition Thief
In which situation we use them? Zerg Solo Pve Fractal?

Condition is for roaming, for everything else you use Power. Most DPS is berserker set with daggers. And every rule of thumb should be ignored when you feel like it

Ismael.6074:

…Also, you said that p/d is not cheesy. Coming from someone who only plays p/d tonic thief let me tell you with 100% certainty that p/d is the most cheesy and broken weapon set in the game.

Uhm, you’re saying that while exploiting tonics and on-heal runes, neither of which are tied to the P/D weaponset. Using the ‘cheesy’ tonics is what makes your use of p/d ‘cheesy’.

Mhh, sounds like it might be an unintended side effect of the fix related to Steal, you should probably report it as bug.

Lux.7169:

frans.8092:

Lux.7169:

Allows me this program an automatic advantage? Can I thus so longer, faster, more precise will play when someone of this program is not used?

You should really not try to quote a machine-translated text, especially if the same material is covered in English.

It’s also really not about what is in the ToS, but if it applies to binding dodge-jump to a single key. So, the questions are
1) is it a single action or not
2) does it give an advantage (over someone not using the program)

@1) we’ve been discussing this, well to be precise, you haven’t, but other people have.
@2) does it actually give an advantage, in combat, against a player? I don’t see it, you don’t dodge any further or longer and using endurance for jumping around while not being able to steer seems more of a waste then a boon.

except you’re the only one who is suggesting it’s not a violation of the ToS.

No, I am not the only one and I am giving reasons as to why I think it is not, while you are giving reasons as to why you think it is and we don’t agree. That is not uncommon for a discussion.

Oh, except one person who literally said it was not a violation of tos and his post was deleted (and he was likely infracted for it).

Really? And you can show us that post? No, you can’t, so what value does your comment have.

What’s wrong with quoting an english translation of what the german lead said?

It is a bad translation. It is non-sensical english. Post the original with your own translation but not the gibberish produced by some translation program

I even quoted the direct link to his post. Where does that violate any ToS (where actually if you were familiar with ToS posting in any other language besides english is an infraction).

I never said it did violate any ToS, does your world revolve around violating a ToS?
Citing a piece from am article or post in a foreign language withing your english post does not violate any ToS. To claim quoting from a non-english post violates forum guidelines would not just be unreasonable, it would be silly.

Does it offend you that I posted the first relevant, direct information from the german lead?

No, relevant information does not offend me, but I can understand German just fine and presenting me this horrible translation is what offends me.

Have I violated your sense of evidentiary procedure? Where are these made up rules that you follow?

My rules? It’s not about rules but about interpretation and you present an unconvincing interpretation of the rules. Your case rests upon the assumption that the jump-dodge is two actions.

As a matter of fact, I found a thread with the question where a developer joins in the discussion on binding it to one key, or mouse-button and when he says: … I don’t even know if you could bind that with a programmable mouse., that sure doesn’t sound like he is very focussed on the UA aspects of it.

Bottom line is that you’re the only person who has not had their post deleted who even remotely interprets the ToS in that way.

Incorrect, see for example this post

So, for the third time, my very basic and simple question to you (which you have avoided answering directly): Are you telling people it’s ok to key bind dodge-jumping to 1 key?

I recognize a C&D when I see one and I will carefully watch my back when I know someone is going to take any opportunity to take a stab at it.

Oh and as for your ignorance about the mechanics, it does give an in-combat advantage and the dodge-jump in combat takes you noticeably further. This has been covered in dozens of guides and is pretty much wide-spread common knowledge.

Ignorance? Really? Well, I have tested it (I know how to perform it reliably) and it does not take you further when dodging, it does not improve your dodges, so it does not give an advantage in combat. It gives a longer jump when in combat but jumping is irrelevant in combat. On the downside, you can not steer like you can with a regular jump.

Dakota.4591:

But trinkets? If you’re running a power build, zerk trinkets are just too valueable to replace with soldier.

That changes with Ferocity. Trinkets used to have relatively high crit damage, especially the jewels had like 3% crit damage on a 15 point minor. Now the 15 point Ferocity is 1% crit damage

The real power of the rune set was in the +45% duration, this effectively turns every two stacks you generate into 3. But the damage reduction gives other similar runes a better position, so I expect the price to go down and that of others to go up.

Yay, they fixed the silly dance on Shortbow #3!

/dance

Junkpile.7439:

Often these upleveled players don’t even use best possible gear, runes and jewelery. They use 10 level too low blue gear on without any jewelery and wonder why they are weak.

This off course. Nobody will upgrade all their gear every 10 levels.

Maybe it would help if you could equip level 80 gear when upleveled.

proviticus.4183:

frans.8092:

proviticus.4183:

…
Too many times does a random teammate kill an enemy and you rally, meanwhile you were mashing one of your downed skills, which ends up translating to another skill when you’re alive.

Well, don’t mash #4, just hit it once when it comes of cooldown.

that’s usually what I do, but the problem is still entirely there, and it can still happen (just happens more with mashing).

Would be rare occurrence, but yeah, if I bring Last Refuge in my mind I can understand the annoyance. Is it that big of a problem to warrant such a big change? I’d hate a daze, would be enough to put you right back down in many cases.

ShiningSquirrel.3751:

… if you have resources in 1 location losing money and another making money ….

It doesn’t look like their loosing money.

Drok Kindleshot.1496:

so that is roughly 74.99 and how many months has the game been out???
I don’t know how financially Guild Wars 2 is doing but if this is all they got from me since the game came out I don’t think that is very good business considering that I can easily spend way more than that.

Then donate some more? Keep in mind that when you buy gems with gold, somebody bought these gems with money, so you’re supporting them just as well.

BY now in Guild wars 1 lifespan I had already bought the game plus Factions that was like 110.00 and by now I was getting ready to buy Elona….

Actually these titles were around 40. Prophecies, Factions and Elona together would have been 120.

You are probably going to say that I am just one player but there are thousands like me who did not return…..all these piecemeal content updates arent cutting it and until they change that I may never return……

I don’t know if there are plans for additional campaigns, but I think we’d all like a campaign sized expansion – and pay full price, but perhaps the gem shop plus the extension into China is making them enough money to continue.

proviticus.4183:

…
Too many times does a random teammate kill an enemy and you rally, meanwhile you were mashing one of your downed skills, which ends up translating to another skill when you’re alive.

Well, don’t mash #4, just hit it once when it comes of cooldown.

Einlanzer.1627:

… The point is not that poison sucks and needs to be buffed. The point is that the benefits it offers are too static. It deserves to scale better than it does with condition damage. Making the healing reduction lower at baseline and having it scale with condition damage would make more sense, as would having it do a non-trivial amount of damage.

None of the debuff conditions scale with condition damage. Making the debuff effects scale with condition damage is an excellent way to effectively nerf these types of conditions, with a tremendous effect on all kinds of balance.

And all of that just to make D/D a bit less power focusses? Just look at condition D/D as a kind of P/P, big damage coming from one skill (actually most thief weaponsets do this, Backstab, Sneak Attack, Unload, Death Blossom and Pistol Whip.

Aza.2105:

Zacchary.6183:

@ Aza

Your comments are rather biased.

Not biased, I’m objective.

Nobody is objective. Which is not a problem until they believe they are being objective.

Near the top of Guild Wars 2 User Agreement is a link to the EU version, To review the European Union version of the User Agreement, click here: https://www.guildwars2.com/en-gb/legal/guild-wars-2-user-agreement/

That link however redirects back to the EN version.

Lux.7169:

Allows me this program an automatic advantage? Can I thus so longer, faster, more precise will play when someone of this program is not used?

You should really not try to quote a machine-translated text, especially if the same material is covered in English.

It’s also really not about what is in the ToS, but if it applies to binding dodge-jump to a single key. So, the questions are
1) is it a single action or not
2) does it give an advantage (over someone not using the program)

@1) we’ve been discussing this, well to be precise, you haven’t, but other people have.
@2) does it actually give an advantage, in combat, against a player? I don’t see it, you don’t dodge any further or longer and using endurance for jumping around while not being able to steer seems more of a waste then a boon.

Grimwolf.7163:

Well, not only do I have eyeballs, but I also work on games, so I think I have a better idea of how they function in general.
The animation does not lift them off the ground. Two animations are not being combined. It is not a unique animation just because it has vertical movement.
Like I said, the character jumps, starts moving vertically, then the jump animation is REPLACED by the dodge animation while you are still in the air.
Would you call it a unique animation if pressing jump part-way through a dodge launched you in the air while still rolling? They’d have to create a “unique animation” for every single frame of the dodge that you could press jump during.

Good points, but both variations, jump-dodge as well as dodge-jump seem to have the same acrobatic animation; the character jumps then rolls in mid-air (it changes height during the roll btw).

(swap bindings of dodge and jump, this should swap the relative timing)

Grimwolf.7163:

frans.8092:

Grimwolf.7163:

frans.8092:

Grimwolf.7163:

Where else did I see it? Every single time I try it and get the timing slightly wrong.
It looks exactly like the regular dodge.

Jump-dodge looks nothing like a regular dodge and everyone can see that with their own eyes. I seriously hope we don’t have to upload video’s for this

Already done, man;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3kkb3Mb7uo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2FagF1oKfo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npXqSGeDlY0

The animation is exactly the same.

I am sorry, but to my eyes even the Asura animations are different.
I have human and norn characters, the dodge is basically a roll at ground level for them, with the the dodge-jump they reach character height.

If you’re talking about how they rise off the ground, that isn’t an animation. They’re just doing the regular dodge roll while lifting into the air from the jump.

With a separate animation. Everything has predefined animations, the game doesn’t magically combine two animations into one.

You clearly said that they had taken the effort to create a unique animation for it, which was your argument for why it was all intentional. But that isn’t the case.

Oh, did you reverse-engineer the code of client and server to determine that that isn’t the case? Dodge-jump over a fence and see how you don’t get rubber-banded. If this was an animation glitch, the server would happily put you back against the fence as if you were lagging. It is intentional.

Developers had no idea about possibility to combine jump and dodge until players started doing it. It wasn’t intended, same as fiery exploit sword 3 and 4 in corners. They messed up there and trying to fix the outburst by supporting it as intended game mechanic. So saying “its encouraged by developers” is a bit funny.

It’s listed as a ‘pro-tip’ in an official Guildwars2.com publication, how is that not ‘encouraged by developers’?

Grimwolf.7163:

frans.8092:

Grimwolf.7163:

Where else did I see it? Every single time I try it and get the timing slightly wrong.
It looks exactly like the regular dodge.

Jump-dodge looks nothing like a regular dodge and everyone can see that with their own eyes. I seriously hope we don’t have to upload video’s for this

Already done, man;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3kkb3Mb7uo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2FagF1oKfo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npXqSGeDlY0

The animation is exactly the same.

I am sorry, but to my eyes even the Asura animations are different.
I have human and norn characters, the dodge is basically a roll at ground level for them, with the the dodge-jump they reach character height.

Sagat.3285:

Arikyali.5804:

SoulstitchMMO.1396:

It doesn’t feel like my Focus wall is pulling them any where. Does any stealth come with some sort of stability? Lots of times on ledges I’ve seen thief to stealth on a ledge, I focus pull them, and they are still on the ledge…

Stealthing doesn’t give stability. Where exactly on the ledge are you trying to pull them? If it’s at a keep or tower, there is a little wall that keeps players from being entirely pulled off. You need to pull them in certain corners of the building, in order to get them.

Edit: Snap, I just realized this thread was necro’d…

Stealth can give you give stability with new Acrobatics trait.

Only when they hit from stealth (and thus become revealed), not when they enter stealth.

P/D is stronger with conditions, P/P Shortbow (and every other weapon) are a whole lot stronger with Power/Crit, while P/D is still usable with Power/Crit. Imo, if you want flexibility in weaponset, Power/Crit is the better choice.

Einlanzer.1627:

P/P is not a strict power set, and neither is SB. The former is a hybrid set that is poorly tuned and consequently arguably works better as a power set (this is debatable – in many ways P/P is more functional with hybrid builds). The latter is quite decent with conditions but can be played functionally with a variety of builds, which is I’m sure what’s intended.

There is nothing to debate, the only damaging conditions P/P has is on it’s autoattack and it’s so weak that any investment to improve it will cost much, much more elsewhere. There is no where to go with P/P then Power.

It is very significant to note that, in terms of gear, conditions are only tied to one stat while physical damage is tied to three.

Which would be a reason to not ‘weaken’ a power/crit build with (attribute) investments in condition damage, which tends to make power builds and weaponsets tend exclusive.

The other thing is that people tend to not want to think outside the box in terms of gearing sigils and runes. I already made the point that MH Dagger has one of the fastest (if not the fastest) hitting autoattacks in the game and is therefore a great proc weapon – try Sigil of Earth.

In short, running D/D with bleed procs gives me much better bleed application than either Pistol or Shortbow do while giving the set AoE ability that it would be lacking otherwise, so the people arguing that Death Blossom is weak or useless are just objectively wrong.

Really? That is strange. Sigil of Earth has a 60% chance to proc a 5 second bleed on a critical, with a 2 second cooldown. Assuming dagger auto hits twice per second, and you have an 80% crit chance your chance to proc is about 0,8 * 0,6 = 0,48 and you’d proc the sigil about once every 3 seconds on average, so you’d keep 5/3 = 1,7 bleed stacks going.
Vital shot applies a 4 second bleed every 0,9 seconds, so it can keep 4/0,9 = 4,4 bleed stacks going.

I don’t quite see how your Daggers of Earth could apply more bleeding then a P/x’s Vital Shot.

Lux.7169:

What part of that is confusing?

It seems to be confusing to you. The next sentence makes clear that with one-to-one she is referring to skills.

A single one-to-one bind is fine. Binding 11 different skills to one press of a key isn’t so fine.

Grimwolf.7163:

Where else did I see it? Every single time I try it and get the timing slightly wrong.
It looks exactly like the regular dodge.

Jump-dodge looks nothing like a regular dodge and everyone can see that with their own eyes. I seriously hope we don’t have to upload video’s for this

RashanDale.3609:

what exactly happened that P/d got so popular lately? is it really just that one confusion-grandmaster trait? cant think of any other changes

Ferocity happened, making power specs less bursty, requiring more sustain and sustain is what a power thief is not suited for, so they moved to a sustain type of build; (condition) P/D.

SharkKilL.6745:

Realy, you don’t need any type of skill to play for this one and win 1 vs X.

The X’s should improve their skill then and then trash the P
D. A good player with a suitable build will be able to 1vX a couple of bad or inexperienced players succesfully.

Grimwolf.7163:

It’s definitely not a unique animation.

No? Where else did you see it?

Poplolita.2638:

Xter.6271:

Honestly I see the nerf stealth threads mute. I use to main a thief before I went onto an elementalist. Thieves are fine and after maining a thief since head start it’s very easy to counter a thief in stealth. You just need to observe your opponent and decide when to make your move. I crush thieves on my elementalist, if they stealth typically wait a second then ether port, block, or use a skill that will put distance from where you’re at or use one that negates melee damage. This prevents the thief from landing his most potent skill. Yeah he can retry again but it’s your duty through active play to prevent him from getting the advantage and getting into stealth or landing that skill.

If you see a thief will dual pistols, he’s not a threat and even if he runs venom share with thief guild and pirate runes to do a mass condition bomb, just wait for the venoms to be used then cleanse. No more conditions then and the venoms have a long recharge along with the thieves guild. And P/P has no stealth outside of a weapon swap/utilities and he can only really spam #3 or auto attack.

Shortbow is used more for distance and running away then fighting with thieves typically. Ether let him spam his evade and his initiative is out then close the gap or keep the gap closed the whole time.

Sword/dagger is tricky and is normally more on an evade build. You’ll have to read and observe your opponent’s attack pattern and when he busts out those evades and time it right. Rarely will these thieves use stealth and if he does, like before put distance or use a skill that negates melee skills. The next feat is countering the thieves gap closing with #2. Watch where he ported from with it and drag the fight back to where he originally used it. No gap closing needed and puts him/her in more danger if they decide to disengage.

Sword/pistol is easy. Avoid the pistol whips, and the blinding powder. If you need keep some gap to prevent those.

If you see a thief use shadow refuge, then ether unload some AoE or auto attack and watch to see if you hit the second skill in the auto chain, if a thief uses shadow refuge they are trying to disengage because they’re low on health or the fight is mute. Chances are it’s because he’s low on health and just a few simple attack will down him and then it’s about making sure he can’t resurrect himself. All you gotta do when he’s downed is land an attack on him while he’s in stealth so bandage won’t work and you negate his regeneration in stealth if he has it traited so.

The only trickery set up is a well played P/D thief. But just outplay him as above and as long as you manage your skills and health you’ll outlast him and beat him.

If you’re doing WvWvW roaming, then expect thieves to get away unless you duel there. There’s a lot of directions he can go and critters to stealth off of. A thief that runs, lost. Even though you don’t get loot for his defeat, consider it a show of skill that you beat him. But chances are you would only get a spike for his death and not a precursor so really don’t worry about the loot.

Thieves are not an issue, stealth is not an issue, the issue is people wanting an easy button. You people don’t complain about me stacking my boons through my own combo fields while I damage you and become more of a threat as the fight progresses. The simple solution is to just prevent what is causing the issues from happening and as the old saying goes. “The simplest solution is the best solution”.

Regards,
Xter

I will corrupt boon with some dark path here and there to death!

So, Xter gave a lengthy tutorial on how he wins from thieves and you pick out some barely related detail to argue on about, neglecting all the useful and interesting stuff he wrote.

LostBalloon.6423:

The other day a mesmer was waiting dead in lord’s room and it took 30 ppl way too long to find and kill the thief waiting to res that player. And anet, that was far from “fun”.

That was stupid, one would have been enough, you don’t have to find him, sooner or later he’ll try to rezz the mesmer so all you have to do is watch it’s corpse. When he starts to rezz, sound the alarm.

Don’t blame the mechanics for bad player decisions.

RedSpectrum.1975:

No vincecontix not you too!! It’s thieves, thieves!

Hey, be happy it’s Thief and not Rogue so at least people get the singular form right.

Lux.7169:

frans.8092:

Lux.7169:

Technically mapping them to the same key violates ToS.

Technically the jump-dodge is one action (it has it’s own animation), binding one action to one key is ok.

Regardless it’s super easy to do since v+space bar can be clicked in the same motion in one stroke.

I prefer C for dodge, I have small hands and it’s easier to press C+space with the thumb while simultaneously walking or strafing.

It fails sometimes but I think that is more to due to me not pressing the keys perfectly.

Technically it’s 2, since you literally start the roll frame a fraction of a second before jumping and just because you created what appears to be one action, doesn’t mean it wasn’t both a dodge and a jump (2 separate actions occurring virtually simultaneously).

Violates ToS.

Technically it is one action, it has a unique (set of) animations and specific properties, such as always jumping the the same distance in and out of combat. It is no accidental or glitched merging of two actions, it was specifically programmed to do what it does. It is one action.
It’s not about your actions, but in-game actions, double tapping to dodge doesn’t make it two actions, or just jumping sideways.

The action is ‘promoted’ as a pro-tip in the Super Adventure Box QA
Under Pro Tips it reads:
“Dodge Jump” for a little extra height and length by hitting evade (V) right after Jump (Space Bar). Practice rolling your thumb from the Space Bar to the V key in one smooth movement.

I wouldn’t know which one to press first, I just press C and space simultaneously with my thumb, I don’t know which one makes contact first. It doesn’t do much in combat, just feels more acrobatic then a regular jump.

Einlanzer.1627:

No, it means they intended for the set to be functional with a variety of builds, which is much better game design than having your weapon set pigeonhole you into one specific build by being useless with any other build. They, in fact, did this with most weapon sets across professions.

It would be especially problematic for the Thief due to the low selection of weapons they have. If D/D was a strict power set with no condition application, Thieves would not have a condition friendly melee weapon at all and Thieves running mixed or condition builds would be forced to be ranged all the time.

While you make a good point on the need for flexible weapons, both Sword sets are strictly power sets. P/P and Sb are as well, even though they offer scraps of bleeding. P/D is the only hybrid set and it is biased towards condition damage.

A hybrid P/D main might find use in D/D as secondary set for deathblossom and have a backstab with punch, but if I were not running shortbow as secondary to P/D I’d probably prefer to dual it with some nice on-swap sigils.

Lux.7169:

Technically mapping them to the same key violates ToS.

Technically the jump-dodge is one action (it has it’s own animation), binding one action to one key is ok.

Regardless it’s super easy to do since v+space bar can be clicked in the same motion in one stroke.

I prefer C for dodge, I have small hands and it’s easier to press C+space with the thumb while simultaneously walking or strafing.

It fails sometimes but I think that is more to due to me not pressing the keys perfectly.

Nobody insulted you, afaict. If they did, you can report the post.
In the last Ready Up they said they felt that thief was where they wanted it to be, so don’t expect any major changes. If you have problems playing against them, ask for advice. Starting a thread to ask for major game changes is not likely to be productive.

If you need advice in dealing with thieves, ask for advice. Asking for general profession adjustments is not going to be productive.

unlucky.9285:

I never said the regen came from withdraw…

We were discussing Withdraw and Consume Conditions, as you mentioned those.

and again consume conditions more often then not will get interrupted because of the long and obvious cast.

That might be true, and a problem, I personally feel like Hide in Shadows seems to take ages to cast when you need it, CC’s cast time looks even worse. But it’s a weakness of CC that might need to be addressed independently.

did you factor in the damage you take from the conditions while the cast is initiating? a stack of bleeds can do quite a bit of damage in that time,

Withdraw doesn’t remove DoT conditions so they keep ticking long after it was cast …

you should also factor in the damage done to you by your opponent as well because more often then not they will be in your face/ranging during this time

Yeah, well, kite, everyone’s doing damage all the time, but I should have added cast times to recharge when comparing skills.

the signet will basically guarantee your death if you take it because of the icd and no healing out of combat, I could take well of blood but then I have an even longer cool down to contend with coupled by the fact a thief can just fear me out of it with no visual warning so I can try stop it and it also has a horrendous cast time.

that’s it really =\

The signet … I don’t like to get struck, but it looks like the active could be devastating when used in groups. But maybe compare it to our venom heal, Skelk Venom – which basically requires the SA venom sharing grandmaster trait – and tell me which one you think is better….
The well is a group heal and the Blood Fiend looks quite decent, considering you can use it as a precast heal, and you can get more healing from it’s attack.

unlucky.9285:

frans.8092:

unlucky.9285:

the healing…. you gave them way too much over and over and over again I can get a thief low health then they just pop away for about 5 seconds into stealth and come out full health lets compare necro consume conditions 5k health every 25 seconds with a lengthy obvious scream to the world look at me im healing interrupt me cast

Every 25 seconds your Consume Conditions removes all conditions, and every condition removed adds another 700 HPof healing, so when used well this will easily net you a 7-8 k heal and cleanse all conditions. Withdraw heals 4.3 k and removes only movement impairing conditions, cripple, chill and immobilize. Unlike Consume it is negatively effected by poison. I don’t think Consume Conditions is inferior to Withdraw, I would seriously consider over Withdraw should I have the choice.

Btw, the way you round the healing from consume down, and that of withdraw up is a rather revealing sign of your lack of objectivity.

this one skill still works out to be more health over time on an instant cast that cant be interrupted and its not factoring in sources of regen. it saves a thief that makes mistakes so often its not funny…

Withdraw has no regeneration attached to it, are you looking at the same Wiki as I am?

Assuming there are conditions to remove – and given your choice of Consume Conditions that would be appropriate (you probably should choose another heal when not) – they look pretty equal in healing:
4,3 / 15 = 0,29
8/25 = 0,32

But that is not counting the damage that Consume Conditions negates by removing damaging conditions and not counting the loss of healing due to poison making Withdraw’s healing less effective.

They have different application, Consume Conditions looks like it’s designed for use in condition heavy circumstances, where Withdraw is absolutely inferior to it. Where conditions are less abundant, Withdraw looks like a better choice to me, but I am sure Necromancer has other choices as well.

unlucky.9285:

the healing…. you gave them way too much over and over and over again I can get a thief low health then they just pop away for about 5 seconds into stealth and come out full health lets compare necro consume conditions 5k health every 25 seconds with a lengthy obvious scream to the world look at me im healing interrupt me cast

Every 25 seconds your Consume Conditions removes all conditions, and every condition removed adds another 700 HPof healing, so when used well this will easily net you a 7-8 k heal and cleanse all conditions. Withdraw heals 4.3 k and removes only movement impairing conditions, cripple, chill and immobilize. Unlike Consume it is negatively effected by poison. I don’t think Consume Conditions is inferior to Withdraw, I would seriously consider over Withdraw should I have the choice.

Btw, the way you round the healing from consume down, and that of withdraw up is a rather revealing sign of your lack of objectivity.

Cygnus.6903:

frans.8092:

That is something you can learn, hence why it really is a learn-to-play issue.

You can not really 100% believe this right? That would mean you are either pretty bad, or inexperienced when it comes to fighting really good thieves.

Uhm, are you seriously suggesting that it’s not possible to learn to think like a thief?

On and off, sometimes it eats everything, sometimes only the more involved posts. I’ve quit putting time and energy in this forum, you’ll only see 30 second replies from me.

Test post
15 chars

Test post, forum seems broken and determined to destroy the more involved replies.
PS, I refuse to waste the energy to rewrite my reply, sorry guys, you’re not that important.

ShakeyStorm.7180:

frans.8092:

ShakeyStorm.7180:

frans.8092:

You don’t need visual clues, you need to get into their mind. I find it easier to hit my own c&d on thieves in stealth then on most non-thief players.

Not all can think like a thief.

That is something you can learn, hence why it really is a learn-to-play issue.

Anyone in stealth can be anywhere. Not a L2P issue.

They could be ‘anywhere’, but they won’t, they’ll be where they think is the best place to be – and that is precisely where your thinking has to be. So again, it is a L2P issue.

Btw, I believe they had damage numbers visible in early testing/beta, but that was changed before release. The reason is obvious, it completely negates stealth, which might give you the free lootbags you’re so desire, but it is hardly ‘balancing’.

I appreciate your comment but you are at the wrong post. I believe your reply fits better in the " There is no counter to stealth" post.

In case you missed it, this is the “Suggestions for balancing Stealth” post.

Is that the level at which you discuss? ‘’Shoo shoo,’‘, you say, ’’go away, I don’t like what you say’’

Look, even if your suggestions where implemented it would not help you, because, you see, people would just switch professions and continue to beat you with those. It’s not stealth that is your problem, but your unwillingness to learn and adapt.

ShakeyStorm.7180:

Okaishi.8320:

If Anet does end up giving in to all the whine about stealth counters they’d better implement some serious buffs to the class at the same time. 90% of the thieves are already laughably easy to down on pretty much any other class I play. I guess the players who can’t be bothered learning how to counterplay thieves themselves need a button they can press to instantly drop a thief out of stealth and reveal him.

Ignoring self praise and unrelated comment…

What Anet needs to do is to add “a button they (players) can press to instantly drop a thief out of stealth and reveal him.” – Okaishi

Yeah, well, I’d like buttons to instantly remove stability, blocking, protection, aegis and more of those annoyances. There are such buttons, but they are rare, just as there are drop-out-of-stealth buttons, that are equally rare.

You can counter stealth, entering stealth and the use of stealth. Not a failsafe 100% always, but that is never the case in this game.

ShakeyStorm.7180:

frans.8092:

You don’t need visual clues, you need to get into their mind. I find it easier to hit my own c&d on thieves in stealth then on most non-thief players.

Not all can think like a thief.

That is something you can learn, hence why it really is a learn-to-play issue.

Anyone in stealth can be anywhere. Not a L2P issue.

They could be ‘anywhere’, but they won’t, they’ll be where they think is the best place to be – and that is precisely where your thinking has to be. So again, it is a L2P issue.

Btw, I believe they had damage numbers visible in early testing/beta, but that was changed before release. The reason is obvious, it completely negates stealth, which might give you the free lootbags you’re so desire, but it is hardly ‘balancing’.

You don’t need visual clues, you need to get into their mind. I find it easier to hit my own c&d on thieves in stealth then on most non-thief players.

Cogbyrn.7283:

frans.8092:

Cogbyrn.7283:

If all they did was apply Revealed to a class who is in Stealth upon them being downed, even just 1 second of it while they are invulnerable, I would actually feel a lot better about a lot of things re: Stealth. But I would wager that someone is going to say that would break Thieves irreparably, or take a lot of the skill out of the class with regard to using SR when you’re about to go down or something.

Downed state is intended to delay defeat so that players have a chance to rally, it’s not supposed to lead to a guaranteed stomp and game mechanics do not have not be changed because something annoys you.

Nothing has to be changed for any one person. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t give our feedback based on our experience/perception to help ANet make the most informed, data-driven decision they can. If it turns out everyone else loves how a Thief going down in SR is a auto-attack guessing game for 15+ seconds, that’s fine. I’ll deal with it. However, I think it’s both completely silly, and bad game design. If I wanted to play Battleship, I’ll go play Battleship.

You only speak for yourself, you do not speak for everyone, so yes, you are asking for a (major) chance because something without real balance impact annoys you.
Bad design would be to build in a thousands of little rules for all kinds of (rare) situations, like what you are asking for. Terrible design would be to have them just to avoid minor inconveniences or personal annoyances. Good design is having as few rules as possible that apply to a wide range of situations, Keep It Simple.

Only the sigils on the active set have an effect. If you build up bloodlust stacks and then switch weapons the stacks are no longer active.

So, no, there is no advantage with respect to sigil effects for professions that can carry two weaponsets.

Aiuris.9861:

Aberrant.6749:

9s icd vs 10s to swap with swap icd, plus other classes tend to not swap every chance… eng/ele on the other hand do it constantly. Yup.

Wow, so we’re saving 1 out of 10 sec? Is that your argument? What if I tell you it’s unreasonable to count the 9sec, and when we are constantly swapping attunements, we are dealing with 10-13sec CD for each attunement, and after a few seconds of battle they are all on CD and being swapped randomly, giving us an actual loss of couple of seconds because we swap when we need, not when the 9sec are up?

As does everyone – except the rare specs that dual carry the same set everyone swaps when the situation demands it, not when the swap cooldown ends.

Jayden Ennok.3687:

The suggestion is, change IP 5% heal from crit dmg to 5% lifesteal from crit dmg.

+1

This can’t be suggested often enough.

The heal is insufficient when it has to compete with Executioner and Hidden Killer, make it lifesteal and it’s getting closer to being a choice.

Why not just increase the % IP heals instead of making it lifesteal?

Ok …

I tried IP in pve and wvw. My build is full zerk with 6/6/x/x/x for both pve and wvw, I can deal quite a lot of dps yet I find IP heals small.

Not surprising, if about 70% of your damage is on critical hot, you will heal for about 3.5% of a health bar, or about 3.5% of 20k … is … like … 700 HP? Executioner would have added 20% on the last 10k, or about 1k6 on the outgoing damage. Make it lifesteal and the 700 heal + 700 damage can make it compete.