Guild Wars 2

1. Only the regular bank and your bag slots can be used to store soulbound items.
2. You can salvage them for a bit of materials and maybe the rune/sigil (I think?), transmute if you want to move the rune/sigil somewhere else, or chuck them in the mystic toilet and hope for something else.

Huh, how’d you get inside the cube on the ground? When I tried to get in in the past I’d hit an invisible wall over the holes in the cube that you could walk on (like if there was glass, but not rendered).
Also gotta be careful near that thing, there are holes in the ground near it that you cant get out of.

AntiGw.9367:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

AntiGw.9367:

Again, who died and put you in charge of deciding what “doing one’s best” means?

If doing your best means wearing pure DPS gear, do it yourself. Don’t force it on others. And don’t act like every party wants everyone to have pure DPS.

Again, math decided that MF makes your efforts inferior to what they would be with something else.
And stop claiming I think pure DPS is everything. I have stated numerous times that it is not. However, Explorer’s gear is most readily compared to Berserker’s/Rampager’s gear, as Explorer’s is a damage set, with both of its useful attributes shared with both of those sets, except Berserker’s and Rampager’s are both better at dealing damage because they have higher Power and a third stat that is actually present in a fight.

And damage is ALWAYS useful. It may not be the most useful thing you could be doing, but as long as you aren’t pulling things you aren’t supposed to be fighting, dealing damage is always helpful. Thus, if your damage is increased without any tradeoffs elsewhere, you are being more useful.

I didn’t sign up for anything that says that I should always have the most efficient stats, without any tradeoffs that don’t benefit a party.

Did you?

By joining a group consisting of people putting forth their best efforts, you entered into the social contract with them. If you don’t do the same they have every right to not want anything to do with you for your actions.
And being a social game, the game mechanics should not encourage people to break the social contract by putting themselves before their group.

Star Ace.5207:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

And I shall bring up the definition again since it apparently needs restating.

self·ish [sel-fish]
adjective
1. devoted to or caring only for oneself; concerned primarily with one’s own interests, benefits, welfare, etc., regardless of others.

You are being needlessly rude for posting the obvious as if no one knew what selfishness means, but the fact is that the same definition applies to those who want MF users to do things their way to meet their own needs and convenience (which as I said, often exclude way more than MF users as well due to personal convictions of how GW2 is “supposed to be played.”)

I hope you notice the irony, and why blaming others about “being selfish” in this particular issue is self-defeating.

rfdarko posted about this issue (MF users vs non-MF users and the “selfish” argument), and I fully agree with that post.

We’ll never agree if you think every MF gear user is being selfish, so let’s just leave it at that. I promise I won’t judge your character based on your gear choice, even if it’s one I would never use.

I will continue to bring up the definition until people stop claiming that MF, which fits the definition perfectly, is not selfish. Which, by definition, it is.
And maybe I am being somewhat selfish in wanting them to pull their own weight instead of wasting their stats on something that only benefits them. However, do note that my side is for the benefit of the other 4 people in the group with the MF users, and not just myself.

In closing, by definition it is selfish. Stop claiming it isn’t.

AntiGw.9367:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Star Ace.5207:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Theftwind.8976:

I have a question for those that are against people using magic find gear in a dungeon setting. Let us assume that you were the only person out of 5 not wearing magic find gear, the other 4 were. Would you still accuse the other 4 of not doing their fair share? How do you determine what is a fair share anyways? That part is highly subjective. Is it by DPS only? Perhaps whoever survives the longest?

I ask this as we had a group of 5 not 3 days ago running the Living Story dungeon. On the final 2 bosses we wiped the first two times until we figured out the patterns and on our last attempt we succeeded. The ironic thing is the one person that survived long enough to rez the others happened to be wearing magic find gear. She was a Ranger and her pet kept the last boss standing busy long enough for her to get the others up. However according to many here that person would not have been valuable to their group and a waste of a spot as she was wearing mf gear.

Once again I will reiterate what many have tried to say here. It is not the gear that makes a person valuable to the group and the value of the gear is highly overrated when DPS numbers take precedence over everything else the person has to offer.

So the Ranger stayed alive well enough to rez you guys without survival stats from gear.
Seeing as Berserker’s also has no survival stats, this is relevant… how? Oh right, it’s not.
No one is denying someone can be of value despite MF gear. However, they are of greater value in another set, as other sets are numerically superior. And this loss of value is for an entirely self-centered bonus that has no impact on the rest of the group, unlike every other stat.

If it was meant by ANet for it to be a “selfish stat” (I have never met selfish numbers, but I guess those things do exist), why was it implemented in the first place? Especially since game design leans towards the cooperative side way more than the competitive. IMHO, it’s just gear that forces you to choose between stat focusing and loot chance %-which is a benefit to many players, but can also be a problem since you can’t have the best of both worlds.

In short, I am not opposing people not liking MF gear-fine, why use what you don’t like for whatever reasons?-but that people justify not using it by hating on players who use it, making it a personal and moral issue (“selfishness”.) If no one forces you to choose something other than Berserker’s (for instance), no one should make feel other players “selfish” for using MF gear-it’s totally inaccurate in many, many cases that people use MF gear just to “leech” of a group-even if it could happen-much like not every player that uses Berserker’s gear is an intolerant elitist.

Well considering Colin’s post on page 1 of this thread, it certainly is a very good question why they put it in like they did when they apparently feel it’s bad.
And the difference between getting mad at people over MF and getting mad over other stats is that other stats can be argued to be better than something else. You can feel as if someone is actually trying to do the best they can with any other stat, because they all have merits. MF sets do not. You see someone with MF and you see someone who is actively not attempting to do their best, and it’s because they want better drops for themselves. Which is fine solo, but in a group, social contract. Then, not only are they breaching the social contract by not trying their best, but they’re also getting better drops because of their breach.

Again, who died and put you in charge of deciding what “doing one’s best” means?

If doing your best means wearing pure DPS gear, do it yourself. Don’t force it on others. And don’t act like every party wants everyone to have pure DPS.

Again, math decided that MF makes your efforts inferior to what they would be with something else.
And stop claiming I think pure DPS is everything. I have stated numerous times that it is not. However, Explorer’s gear is most readily compared to Berserker’s/Rampager’s gear, as Explorer’s is a damage set, with both of its useful attributes shared with both of those sets, except Berserker’s and Rampager’s are both better at dealing damage because they have higher Power and a third stat that is actually present in a fight.

And damage is ALWAYS useful. It may not be the most useful thing you could be doing, but as long as you aren’t pulling things you aren’t supposed to be fighting, dealing damage is always helpful. Thus, if your damage is increased without any tradeoffs elsewhere, you are being more useful.

Star Ace.5207:

As I said before, to the uber efficient kind of player, what they call “useless” stats don’t exist. To him/her, no other set other than Berserker’s matters. MF gear is the same as Soldier’s to them-a waste of stats that could have been better used to be more efficient. Which is why prejudice against one set or the other-including Berserker’s-should not be tolerated, IM strong O (and why I never treat MF gear users as inferior or “selfish”-someone could blame me of the same for not using the stats they deem are better for me, even if I would rather not use what they use.)

And as I said before, no matter what those people say, the other stats do SOMETHING, even if sub-optimal. MF does NOTHING to help fight. Zero. Nadda. Zilch.
In fact, as it replaces useful stats, it does LESS than nothing. If it didn’t replace stats that are actually useful no one would care, but since it is of NEGATIVE value in a fight, it is inarguably worse in a fight from any standpoint, and it is inarguably worse for the rest of the group from any standpoint.
Also, the uber-efficiency folks will still acknowledge the existence of other stats, as they must be considered as candidates for maximum efficiency. If conditions got buffed (and the cap was removed and stacking fixed) they may well be considered as an alternative to zerker.

And I shall bring up the definition again since it apparently needs restating.

self·ish [sel-fish]
adjective
1. devoted to or caring only for oneself; concerned primarily with one’s own interests, benefits, welfare, etc., regardless of others.

Picking a stat that only benefits the user (concerned primarily with one’s own interests, benefits, welfare), unlike every other stat, to the detriment of the group (regardless of others) fits the definition perfectly.

Star Ace.5207:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Theftwind.8976:

I have a question for those that are against people using magic find gear in a dungeon setting. Let us assume that you were the only person out of 5 not wearing magic find gear, the other 4 were. Would you still accuse the other 4 of not doing their fair share? How do you determine what is a fair share anyways? That part is highly subjective. Is it by DPS only? Perhaps whoever survives the longest?

I ask this as we had a group of 5 not 3 days ago running the Living Story dungeon. On the final 2 bosses we wiped the first two times until we figured out the patterns and on our last attempt we succeeded. The ironic thing is the one person that survived long enough to rez the others happened to be wearing magic find gear. She was a Ranger and her pet kept the last boss standing busy long enough for her to get the others up. However according to many here that person would not have been valuable to their group and a waste of a spot as she was wearing mf gear.

Once again I will reiterate what many have tried to say here. It is not the gear that makes a person valuable to the group and the value of the gear is highly overrated when DPS numbers take precedence over everything else the person has to offer.

So the Ranger stayed alive well enough to rez you guys without survival stats from gear.
Seeing as Berserker’s also has no survival stats, this is relevant… how? Oh right, it’s not.
No one is denying someone can be of value despite MF gear. However, they are of greater value in another set, as other sets are numerically superior. And this loss of value is for an entirely self-centered bonus that has no impact on the rest of the group, unlike every other stat.

If it was meant by ANet for it to be a “selfish stat” (I have never met selfish numbers, but I guess those things do exist), why was it implemented in the first place? Especially since game design leans towards the cooperative side way more than the competitive. IMHO, it’s just gear that forces you to choose between stat focusing and loot chance %-which is a benefit to many players, but can also be a problem since you can’t have the best of both worlds.

In short, I am not opposing people not liking MF gear-fine, why use what you don’t like for whatever reasons?-but that people justify not using it by hating on players who use it, making it a personal and moral issue (“selfishness”.) If no one forces you to choose something other than Berserker’s (for instance), no one should make feel other players “selfish” for using MF gear-it’s totally inaccurate in many, many cases that people use MF gear just to “leech” of a group-even if it could happen-much like not every player that uses Berserker’s gear is an intolerant elitist.

Well considering Colin’s post on page 1 of this thread, it certainly is a very good question why they put it in like they did when they apparently feel it’s bad.
And the difference between getting mad at people over MF and getting mad over other stats is that other stats can be argued to be better than something else. You can feel as if someone is actually trying to do the best they can with any other stat, because they all have merits. MF sets do not. You see someone with MF and you see someone who is actively not attempting to do their best, and it’s because they want better drops for themselves. Which is fine solo, but in a group, social contract. Then, not only are they breaching the social contract by not trying their best, but they’re also getting better drops because of their breach.

Star Ace.5207:

MF gear( OR Berserker’s, OR Cleric’s, OR Soldier’s)

One of these is not like the others.
One of these has no conceivable advantage in a fight over another piece of gear (Explorer’s vs Berserker’s/Rampager’s (I won’t count Knight’s since the higher Toughness draws aggro and may be harmful sometimes), Traveler’s vs Rampagers/Carrion, Wayfarer’s vs Soldier’s). The only MF set that isn’t utterly inferior to another is Giver’s on jewelry (which is for the Boon Duration much more than for the MF), or Celestial, which is because it gives everything.
Comparing useful stat sets to MF does them a disservice, as they are of conceivable value, whereas MF is not.

Theftwind.8976:

I have a question for those that are against people using magic find gear in a dungeon setting. Let us assume that you were the only person out of 5 not wearing magic find gear, the other 4 were. Would you still accuse the other 4 of not doing their fair share? How do you determine what is a fair share anyways? That part is highly subjective. Is it by DPS only? Perhaps whoever survives the longest?

I ask this as we had a group of 5 not 3 days ago running the Living Story dungeon. On the final 2 bosses we wiped the first two times until we figured out the patterns and on our last attempt we succeeded. The ironic thing is the one person that survived long enough to rez the others happened to be wearing magic find gear. She was a Ranger and her pet kept the last boss standing busy long enough for her to get the others up. However according to many here that person would not have been valuable to their group and a waste of a spot as she was wearing mf gear.

Once again I will reiterate what many have tried to say here. It is not the gear that makes a person valuable to the group and the value of the gear is highly overrated when DPS numbers take precedence over everything else the person has to offer.

So the Ranger stayed alive well enough to rez you guys without survival stats from gear.
Seeing as Berserker’s also has no survival stats, this is relevant… how? Oh right, it’s not.
No one is denying someone can be of value despite MF gear. However, they are of greater value in another set, as other sets are numerically superior. And this loss of value is for an entirely self-centered bonus that has no impact on the rest of the group, unlike every other stat.

Star Ace.5207:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Star Ace.5207:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Julie Yann.5379:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Julie Yann.5379:

If you did not specify in LFG that you didn’t want MF gear in your party then to bad for you, I will be wearing it. If the run goes smoothly I’will keep it on, if it looks like the group’s struggling I will change gear to help carry the weak link (I hate bad runs too). If you did not specify in LFG that you did not want MF in your party and then ask me to ping my gear after I have joined I will ping you my non MF set. Do the run and when it is over and you are saying good job, great run, I will ping you my awesome drops and my MF gear and leave.

You realize, of course, that your example of you being a lying kitten illustrates why advertising NO MF doesn’t work, right?

I you specifiy that you don’t want MF I will respect that either not join your group or not wear my MF gear. I am not a total kitten, but if get a chance to troll an elitist prick because he/she did not say what he/wanted up front when he/she advertise, I will not pass up the opportunity.

Yeah, but the very fact that you can lie like you did shows why asking for NO MF doesn’t work. There is no way to actually verify it because kittens like you can lie about it.

To be fair, and while I wouldn’t do what she does, I contend that the real “kitten” is the player that didn’t specify that they didn’t want any MF gear in the group, and then proceeded to ask her to ping her gear to “investigate” whether she does. In that way, she’s being “kitten to a kitten”, if you will.

And would it be any different if she had done the same thing to someone who said NO MF in the LFG? According to plenty of people in this thread, they’re being discriminatory elitist kittens for saying that, and so kitten to a kitten is perfectly justified.
What it boils down to is she is a lying kitten lying for the sake of being a kitten to people who want to be informed. And as it stands no one can know otherwise.
As for why it demonstrates why NO MF doesn’t work, not only can you lie about it and never be found out, but kittens like her may actually join it BECAUSE they said they didn’t want it.

She didn’t do that, though, so you are accusing her for being a “kitten” she isn’t-just based on past experiences with perhaps “true kittens”, which she doesn’t seem to be.

If I asked for a casual speedrun, and then asked for your Berserker’s gear, how silly would that be? To be honest, showing them the “zerk” gear and then using Cleric’s wouldn’t be much different than what she did to them-“en eye for an eye” treatment.

Would I do it? No, I generally leave groups once they question my gear, even if I have what they require of me.

The seed of the problem is still there, and present in many people: spite. She did that out of spite towards the person who didn’t advertise that they were going to gear check. Plenty of other people would be willing to take it a little further and join one listed as NO MF and link real gear out of spite for people who don’t like MF.
And there’s no real way to verify if someone is telling the truth.

Star Ace.5207:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

AntiGw.9367:

Blaming anything on MF is just silly.

Right. So, if a boss has a tiny sliver of health remaining when the last person goes down, and everyone was using Explorer’s instead of Berserker’s, it’s totally not because your damage was nerfed by MF, right? The fact that you could have output enough damage to kill it in the time you were alive if your gear didn’t suck has nothing to do with you losing.

It may have, or may have nothing to do too-could have been a mistake on someone else not using MF gear as well that caused the debacle in the first place.

I’m not saying there aren’t other things that caused it as well (obviously if you wipe something went very wrong), but if they had been wearing demonstrably better gear they would have finished it even if everything had gone exactly the same.

Star Ace.5207:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Julie Yann.5379:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Julie Yann.5379:

If you did not specify in LFG that you didn’t want MF gear in your party then to bad for you, I will be wearing it. If the run goes smoothly I’will keep it on, if it looks like the group’s struggling I will change gear to help carry the weak link (I hate bad runs too). If you did not specify in LFG that you did not want MF in your party and then ask me to ping my gear after I have joined I will ping you my non MF set. Do the run and when it is over and you are saying good job, great run, I will ping you my awesome drops and my MF gear and leave.

You realize, of course, that your example of you being a lying kitten illustrates why advertising NO MF doesn’t work, right?

I you specifiy that you don’t want MF I will respect that either not join your group or not wear my MF gear. I am not a total kitten, but if get a chance to troll an elitist prick because he/she did not say what he/wanted up front when he/she advertise, I will not pass up the opportunity.

Yeah, but the very fact that you can lie like you did shows why asking for NO MF doesn’t work. There is no way to actually verify it because kittens like you can lie about it.

To be fair, and while I wouldn’t do what she does, I contend that the real “kitten” is the player that didn’t specify that they didn’t want any MF gear in the group, and then proceeded to ask her to ping her gear to “investigate” whether she does. In that way, she’s being “kitten to a kitten”, if you will.

And would it be any different if she had done the same thing to someone who said NO MF in the LFG? According to plenty of people in this thread, they’re being discriminatory elitist kittens for saying that, and so kitten to a kitten is perfectly justified.
What it boils down to is she is a lying kitten lying for the sake of being a kitten to people who want to be informed. And as it stands no one can know otherwise.
As for why it demonstrates why NO MF doesn’t work, not only can you lie about it and never be found out, but kittens like her may actually join it BECAUSE they said they didn’t want it.

AntiGw.9367:

Blaming anything on MF is just silly.

Right. So, if a boss has a tiny sliver of health remaining when the last person goes down, and everyone was using Explorer’s instead of Berserker’s, it’s totally not because your damage was nerfed by MF, right? The fact that you could have output enough damage to kill it in the time you were alive if your gear didn’t suck has nothing to do with you losing.

Julie Yann.5379:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Julie Yann.5379:

If you did not specify in LFG that you didn’t want MF gear in your party then to bad for you, I will be wearing it. If the run goes smoothly I’will keep it on, if it looks like the group’s struggling I will change gear to help carry the weak link (I hate bad runs too). If you did not specify in LFG that you did not want MF in your party and then ask me to ping my gear after I have joined I will ping you my non MF set. Do the run and when it is over and you are saying good job, great run, I will ping you my awesome drops and my MF gear and leave.

You realize, of course, that your example of you being a lying kitten illustrates why advertising NO MF doesn’t work, right?

I you specifiy that you don’t want MF I will respect that either not join your group or not wear my MF gear. I am not a total kitten, but if get a chance to troll an elitist prick because he/she did not say what he/wanted up front when he/she advertise, I will not pass up the opportunity.

Yeah, but the very fact that you can lie like you did shows why asking for NO MF doesn’t work. There is no way to actually verify it because kittens like you can lie about it.

Julie Yann.5379:

If you did not specify in LFG that you didn’t want MF gear in your party then to bad for you, I will be wearing it. If the run goes smoothly I’will keep it on, if it looks like the group’s struggling I will change gear to help carry the weak link (I hate bad runs too). If you did not specify in LFG that you did not want MF in your party and then ask me to ping my gear after I have joined I will ping you my non MF set. Do the run and when it is over and you are saying good job, great run, I will ping you my awesome drops and my MF gear and leave.

You realize, of course, that your example of you being a lying kitten illustrates why advertising NO MF doesn’t work, right?

Star Ace.5207:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Maybe you will be more effective, if you’re not good enough to stay alive without the survival stats.

This is personal opinion: non-Berserker gear stats players can be better than you-using other gear is not training wheels at all. Perhaps they just prefer the alternate playstyle? I do not understand why people must excuse Berserker’s playstyle by putting down every other playstyle. You like it, it works for you, use it. No need to claim that Berserker’s players “are better” because they are “good enough to survive without the other stats.”

Not related with the MF thread, but will always reply when I see that. It’s just your perception of the game, and not true for 100% of the players. Ask the developer’s if this game is supposed to be played with Berserker’s stats as the ultimate set for ultimate skill.

Uh that IS what I’m saying there? There’s advantages and disadvantages to all gear (except MF, only disadvantages). Or are you replying to the person I was replying to?

This thread is a joke because it’s about Logan Thackeray.

Julie Yann.5379:

So if I equip my Warrior in full clerics gear with a mace main hand and put all my traits in toughness/vitality to maximize my survivability with all of my skills to help me and me only will I be contributing more to the party that if was wearing MF gear?

Maybe you will be more effective, if you’re not good enough to stay alive without the survival stats. If you’re up and dealing damage or distracting enemies instead of dirtnapping you’re probably being more effective. You’ll also obviously be better suited toward resurrecting fallen allies.
However, this is why you don’t compare gear with separate sets of stats, they perform different functions.
Comparing Explorer’s directly to Berserker’s, which has both the non-MF stats in common with it, turns up with the result of Explorer’s being undeniably weaker in combat, as its Power is lower and it lacks Crit Damage, and is otherwise the same.
As such, you are contributing the same (if you dealt 0 damage because you dirtnapped) or better (if you deal any damage) in Berserker’s than you would in Explorer’s.

Star Ace.5207:

I do hate selfishness in real life, BTW, but I couldn’t be at peace with myself calling people that I don’t know and that do not necessarily see things my way “selfish”.

But you won’t truly get to know all that many people over your lifetime. You’ll only know a handful well enough to truly be able to judge whether or not they are selfish.
But you can deem certain actions as selfish without having to know the person.
And people aren’t all good or all bad. Selfless people may make selfish decisions now and then, and vice versa. But them normally being a selfless person doesn’t stop the action from being selfish.

Handin.4032:

Spets the MilkBandit.9031:

zergs are whats breaking the game… not the siege.

I still have yet to see how zergs are breaking the game. In every large-scale PvP game I’ve played in (not many mind you), there have ALWAYS been ‘zergs’. And what people call ‘zergs’ can be totally different. Is a well coordinate guild group of 50 a zerg? if so, then you’re saying that guild groups are breaking the game, and that grouping as a large guild should be punished. Is a group of 50 coordinate pugs a zerg? If so, then you’re saying communication is breaking the game. Is a group of 50 uncoordinate people a zerg? Well…you should be able to smash them to bits since they’re not coordinating! A well-coordinated 20 man group can take on twice its numbers if their opponents are well coordinated.

Siege adds, if anything, more for small groups to do. A few people on AC’s above a gate can stop a huge group from taking a keep (this was true even BEFORE the update). “Zergs” are nothing more than large groups of people, which is what you will expect in large scale warfare. I don’t understand what people were expecting in WORLD vs WORLD…a bunch of 5-10 man squads running around?

This isn’t antagonistic, but I have yet to see a good clear explaination of this, and what people are defining as a zerg, and how that is killing the game. (Note, I prefer doing small group ninja stuff, but if I get stomped by a 40 man group, then I get stomped, and I come back)

Well, giant ZvZ literally breaks the game, in that is stops functioning properly because their servers are inadequate to handle it, and so it becomes a slideshow where everyone attempts to maybe autoattack something.

Geotherma.2395:

Your playstyle hinders others just as much as theirs does yours, this is not a single player game.

And that is why I try NOT to hinder my teammates. Congratulations, you win the thread and now understand everything.

Theftwind.8976:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

And your statement can easily be turned around against MF as well.
“in the end it is about the other persons enjoyment of the game” except when someone runs MF they aren’t thinking about the other persons’ enjoyment, they’re thinking about themselves. They’re wasting their groupmates’ time, which for most people is not enjoyable.

And so I stated I do not care. If I elect to run a dungeon in my optimal armour and someone else wants to wear their MF gear, I DO NOT CARE! I am not one who goes “by the numbers”, spends sleepless nights counting up his DPS, insists on having a gear check before every run, must have the right food stuff. etc. Once you start sweating over how someone else is not keeping up to your dps level, you are being the selfish, greedy, elitist one, not someone wearing magic find.

Why do you not understand that there is a wide divide between a minmaxer and someone who wants everyone to put forth their best effort?
If four people are doing everything (within reason) to do well, and one person is slacking, why do the four people not have a right to have a problem with that? Especially when the slacker gets more for their time, BECAUSE they were slacking.

AntiGw.9367:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Theftwind.8976:

Although I have two sets of exotics, one with MF, and I do not use my MF gear when running dungeons or fractals I do take offense at calling people that do selfish. Think about this carefully. You want people to wear optimal gear so you can complete a dungeon run as fast as possible so you have time to do it again. We have people insisting only zerker gear be used on these runs, we have people requiring gear checks and denying anyone with magic find.

These people are being just as selfish as those that want to wear mf gear. They want it their way or the highway and I would run a dungeon with somebody that wished to wear their mf gear over elitist snobs like that any day of the week because in the end it is about the other persons enjoyment of the game and I do not, nor does anyone else, have the right to dictate how other people enjoy their game. If it takes longer to run the dungeon so what? As long as everyone enjoys the game in the manner they want to. Only those with their own selfish agendas would insist everyone be outfitted the way they are.

Those “gearcentric” people are by far the more selfish people.

And your statement can easily be turned around against MF as well.
“in the end it is about the other persons enjoyment of the game” except when someone runs MF they aren’t thinking about the other persons’ enjoyment, they’re thinking about themselves. They’re wasting their groupmates’ time, which for most people is not enjoyable.

Who died and put you in charge of deciding who is wasting the group’s time, and what isn’t most enjoyable for “most”?

Well, math is in charge of the first one, as less damage with no tradeoff benefit means runs take longer, and since only the user benefits from the increase in time spent, the others are having their time spent without compensation i.e. wasted.
As for the second, you don’t know humanity very well if you don’t know people get annoyed when their time is wasted by someone else.

Star Ace.5207:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Star Ace.5207:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Other stats demonstrably DO something to help in a fight. How much and how useful someone thinks it is depends on the person, but it does do something.
MF does literally nothing in a fight, while replacing stats that DO do something.

This is ANet’s choice, and not the player’s-blame ANet, and stop assuming MF gear players must be “selfish” (Mr. Colin admitted it was a problem-please stop blaming the players.) It is ignorant to judge people’s character based on this stuff, to be honest with you (not singling you out, many people think like you do.) It speaks worse of you than of those players, for not giving them the benefit of the doubt, and for practicing something that is as bad as selfishness, and keeps destroying lives and dreams all throughout the world-intolerance.

-Players that prefer “efficiency” could call anyone not using what they like “selfish”-to them, you cannot “demonstrate” the usefulness of Healing Power/Vitality/Toughness/Condition Damage.

-MF users can be selfish or not, but the reason they chose the gear must not be selfishness but reasons practical to their situation (even if you would feel “selfish” by doing so, have you considered they may have valid reasons for their gear choice? We are all different from each other.) I have Exotic MF gear, and never feel “selfish” using it-I feel more “crippled”, because I am used to other stats, and it’s the reason why I avoid the gear on Dungeons (not because I am selfless/selfish.)

Why shouldn’t I blame players for their own decisions? They perfectly well decided to use MF to the detriment of the group, the devs didn’t force them to.
As for non-zerker stats, no matter what people may think of them they still do EXIST in combat. MF does literally nothing whatsoever to help fight.

“Useless” stats don’t exist for efficiency fiends, and you know that. And if you think I am “selfish” without knowing me, just because a gear decision I made in a game, it’s on you, not on me-I know who I am, and what you think of me doesn’t define me.

Frankly, it’s a bit annoying because the reason most people would hate most MF users is because they theoretically make their runs slower, and doing things fast is their own “selfish” motive. It’s extremely ironic, and why I couldn’t blame anyone for being “selfish” for their individual gear choices (by doing so, I would also be selfish-and intolerant-myself.)

Fine. The action is selfish. Except action is all that people will see, regardless of who you are. If the only action of any note you take towards this random person you meet in a PUG is selfishness, and then you never see him again, does it matter to them if you yourself are selfish? Or does it matter that the only indication of your character they were able to see was a selfish action?
tl;dr the selfish action is all they will see, and as such is all that matters for your interaction with them.

Theftwind.8976:

Although I have two sets of exotics, one with MF, and I do not use my MF gear when running dungeons or fractals I do take offense at calling people that do selfish. Think about this carefully. You want people to wear optimal gear so you can complete a dungeon run as fast as possible so you have time to do it again. We have people insisting only zerker gear be used on these runs, we have people requiring gear checks and denying anyone with magic find.

These people are being just as selfish as those that want to wear mf gear. They want it their way or the highway and I would run a dungeon with somebody that wished to wear their mf gear over elitist snobs like that any day of the week because in the end it is about the other persons enjoyment of the game and I do not, nor does anyone else, have the right to dictate how other people enjoy their game. If it takes longer to run the dungeon so what? As long as everyone enjoys the game in the manner they want to. Only those with their own selfish agendas would insist everyone be outfitted the way they are.

Those “gearcentric” people are by far the more selfish people.

And your statement can easily be turned around against MF as well.
“in the end it is about the other persons enjoyment of the game” except when someone runs MF they aren’t thinking about the other persons’ enjoyment, they’re thinking about themselves. They’re wasting their groupmates’ time, which for most people is not enjoyable.

Star Ace.5207:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Other stats demonstrably DO something to help in a fight. How much and how useful someone thinks it is depends on the person, but it does do something.
MF does literally nothing in a fight, while replacing stats that DO do something.

This is ANet’s choice, and not the player’s-blame ANet, and stop assuming MF gear players must be “selfish” (Mr. Colin admitted it was a problem-please stop blaming the players.) It is ignorant to judge people’s character based on this stuff, to be honest with you (not singling you out, many people think like you do.) It speaks worse of you than of those players, for not giving them the benefit of the doubt, and for practicing something that is as bad as selfishness, and keeps destroying lives and dreams all throughout the world-intolerance.

-Players that prefer “efficiency” could call anyone not using what they like “selfish”-to them, you cannot “demonstrate” the usefulness of Healing Power/Vitality/Toughness/Condition Damage.

-MF users can be selfish or not, but the reason they chose the gear must not be selfishness but reasons practical to their situation (even if you would feel “selfish” by doing so, have you considered they may have valid reasons for their gear choice? We are all different from each other.) I have Exotic MF gear, and never feel “selfish” using it-I feel more “crippled”, because I am used to other stats, and it’s the reason why I avoid the gear on Dungeons (not because I am selfless/selfish.)

Why shouldn’t I blame players for their own decisions? They perfectly well decided to use MF to the detriment of the group, the devs didn’t force them to.
As for non-zerker stats, no matter what people may think of them they still do EXIST in combat. MF does literally nothing whatsoever to help fight.

Tony.6028:

How do people feel about utility infusions? Is it selfish or unacceptable to get an amulet with a utility infusion instead of an offensive/defensive stat? You’d be doing less damage than the people who picked an offensive infusion.

The Offensive and Defensive infusions are so unbelievably worthless right now they might as well be 0.

Geotherma.2395:

Sovta.4719:

Curo.2483:

Quite simply: MF is the only non-combat-related stat that is on gear. In terms of combat, it can never match up. Defensive stats keep you alive so you can deal more damage over time. Offensive stats kill enemies faster so they deal less total damage to you. Bad.

The only place MF is balanced is in solo play where killing enemies slower is a trade-off for getting better loot. However since most of your damage and survivability comes from your base stats/weapon dmg/armor, it is definitely a better trade-off to use MF gear in solo play. So this forces people to use MF gear in solo play for best results. Bad.

All arguments based on skill being more important than gear stats here are void. Yes I agree that skill is more important. However we are looking at this purely from a gear standpoint, where skill is NOT a variable. Unless there is a correlation between skill level and tendency to use MF gear, which there isn’t so far, one should not consider skill level in this argument. For proper comparison, ALL non-MF variables must be considered equal, and that includes skill level.

And can someone point me now that better loot? Cause 97% of players skip half the dungeon and ALL farming spots have been NERFED. So where is that better loot?

I wonder if all these people complaining about MF wearers would still complain if they knew the MF gear was part of the reason why ectos are 20s, and t5/t6 mats are cheaper, so that they can afford their legendarys and make great gear for cheaper.

And I wonder if all these MF defenders realize that the fact that MF is in the game is part of the reason the drop rates are so terrible in the first place.

Mirta.5029:

maddoctor.2738:

That’s the problem. I don’t. But the game doesn’t allow me to root out the garbage (MF users) they can ping other gear if they want to.

So when people ping their gear you don’t trust them or something? I have never seen anyone ping false gear. How do you come to the conclusion that a person was wearing mf if they linked berserker’s at the start?

maddoctor.2738:

You require other people to join with you to get your fat loot at their expense and then dare to talk back about elitisism? You say people who don’t want others to laugh at their expense elitists? You say people who want equal rewards, rewards BY SKILL and not by MF extra stats elitists?

And since you conviently missed to quote the most important part I will requote it. Maybe now we can talk about that and who is the elitists (hint: look at the mirror)

I don’t even wear mf. But I run with people wearing mf. How do I know what do they wear? Because they apologize and say. And I respond with “no problem” because I couldn’t give a single piece of horse dung about what people wear. The same way I don’t care what they’re specked for. Do I know what are good spec and gear combinations? Yes. However I’m in no position to instruct people or even kick people for disagreeing with my views on gear and specking.
And I didn’t respond to that one, because that wasn’t what I thought was wrong with the post. What was wrong with your post was
a) apparently magic find users ping false gear to you. How did you figure out that they’re using mf gear? Did you accuse them for doing less damage? How did you even measure how much damage they were doing?
b) You say that people that run with magic find users are elitists. Because it’s so elitist to not care what a person is wearing.

Well, in another thread, Kaimick admitted that he pinged his good gear while using MF gear.

Also, for your b) point, he’s referring to people who use MF in groups, not people who run with people who use MF.

It’s not a bug, it increases rate not decreases time.
Interval = 1/Rate
Divide the cooldown by 1.3 and you will get exactly what you find.

Star Ace.5207:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Geotherma.2395:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Geotherma.2395:

If a skilled player is in MF and lacking stats, and they are good at dungeons, then they should be rewarded for such.

And this is the reason why you can’t understand why people have a problem with it.
The person should NOT be rewarded for it. They are making their group worse, on purpose, for better drops. They do not in any way deserve to get more/better rewards for doing so.
Unless the group agreed to all run MF, since that means they’re fine with it being harder for better rewards.

So then anyone with less than Ascended gear is essentially doing the same. They too lack stats, much lower in fact if they are in greens. So they are being selfish too, because they haven’t got the money or time to get ascended or exotic gear to live up to your standards. I see the logic now. Everyone should run in Exotic or better gear, or you are leeching, because stat wise you aren’t contributing as much as someone with better gear/traits/ping.

Did they choose not to have the time to do fractals? Did they choose not to have enough money for exotics?
Did a MF user choose to take demonstrably terrible stats instead of something useful and then went into a group, where the only one who sees any benefit whatsoever from the terrible stats is himself?

People in MF gear in a party chose to be less useful for their own personal benefit, and such a person does not deserve better drops at the cost of their group.

The problem is that “terrible” stats are subjective-for a “zerk only” player, any other stat combo is “terrible.” By allowing discrimination against MF, we should also allow it against any other stat that doesn’t meet an artificial. subjective criteria.

In short, if you think Healing Power is useless, and that Condition damage is never “as good” as direct damage, some thing like Apothecary’s will ALSO be useless to you and your groups. You could claim Apothecary’s players are being “selfish” by not adopting your “zerk” playstyle (no offense, as you may not even use Berserker’s stats-this is all an hypothetical situation.) This is why I cannot relate to people calling other using what they don’t like “selfish”-there’s no limit to what such terms could be applied.

And no, MF gear players ARE NOT inherently selfish, nor are Berserker’s gear stats “selfless.” Players can be both selfish or selfless, but that must not be related to the gear they use. I occasionally use full exotic MF gear (mix of Wayfarer/s/Traveler’s) on my Guardian, but only on the PvE map-if you think I am being “selfish” while using that on big map events, it’s up to you, but people that know me in real life believe otherwise. Do not judge a person based on their gear preference-he/she is an individual, not a stat number.

Other stats demonstrably DO something to help in a fight. How much and how useful someone thinks it is depends on the person, but it does do something.
MF does literally nothing in a fight, while replacing stats that DO do something.

Geotherma.2395:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Geotherma.2395:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Geotherma.2395:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Geotherma.2395:

If a skilled player is in MF and lacking stats, and they are good at dungeons, then they should be rewarded for such.

And this is the reason why you can’t understand why people have a problem with it.
The person should NOT be rewarded for it. They are making their group worse, on purpose, for better drops. They do not in any way deserve to get more/better rewards for doing so.
Unless the group agreed to all run MF, since that means they’re fine with it being harder for better rewards.

So then anyone with less than Ascended gear is essentially doing the same. They too lack stats, much lower in fact if they are in greens. So they are being selfish too, because they haven’t got the money or time to get ascended or exotic gear to live up to your standards. I see the logic now. Everyone should run in Exotic or better gear, or you are leeching, because stat wise you aren’t contributing as much as someone with better gear/traits/ping.

Did they choose not to have the time to do fractals? Did they choose not to have enough money for exotics?
Did a MF user choose to take demonstrably terrible stats instead of something useful and then went into a group, where the only one who sees any benefit whatsoever from the terrible stats is himself?

People in MF gear in a party chose to be less useful for their own personal benefit, and such a person does not deserve better drops at the cost of their group.

So everyone who “chose” to wear MF gear did so SOLELY because they clearly WANTED to be less useful? Ah yes, and there is the explanation for 90% of this thread. People in MF “chose” to kitten over everyone else who is in better stat gear. Every.. single.. person. So from this I take that everyone hates MF wearers not because of the loss of stat, but more so because they do it ON PURPOSE to mess with people. I suppose I could say the same for those who don’t all go knights which would keep them alive longer allowing them to be more skillful. Did you ever think they got the gear because they need money, and not because in your mind everyone is out to get you who wears MF gear?

You want to know what selfish really means in GW2? Expecting others to play your way and allowing for no other forms of play or opinion.

No, they knowingly made themselves worse because they were only thinking about THEMSELVES. Their only concern when stacking MF is their OWN drops, never mind the group. They joined a group to get the benefits of being in a group, and then chose to contribute less in order to get more.

I take it you are using all group traits and group style runes and group food then and skills? And definitely not the selfish zerker gear that gets you downed so that players have to stop and raise you.

EVERY stat helps the group, directly or indirectly. Those berserkers kill enemies faster, which gets the job done faster, and dead enemies aren’t dangerous.
Every stat, that is, except MF.

Also, “And definitely not the selfish explorer gear that gets you downed so that players have to stop and raise you.” See what I did there? It’s only, you know, the same exact gear, except worse. Any derogatory statement you can make about berserker’s applies identically to explorer’s, except explorer’s is also less effective when it’s used correctly.

Geotherma.2395:

maddoctor.2738:

Geotherma.2395:

So everyone who “chose” to wear MF gear did so SOLELY because they clearly WANTED to be less useful? Ah yes, and there is the explanation for 90% of this thread. People in MF “chose” to kitten over everyone else who is in better stat gear. Every.. single.. person. So from this I take that everyone hates MF wearers not because of the loss of stat, but more so because they do it ON PURPOSE to mess with people.

That’s EXACTLY the problem, the are doing exactly what you are saying here.

And I will continue to watch zerker builds and people with legendary’s get downed while I am in full exotic MF and using skill instead of relying on my gear to save me. And I’ll continue raising all those hardcore DPS’ers in my farming area with my full MF on because they think their silly 3rd stats counters their lack of skill.

So all MF users are better players, is that it?
Because I have some news for you: the skill of MF users follows the same pattern as anything else: there are good players, average players, bad players. Except the MF user will perform worse than someone with the same skill but better gear.

Geotherma.2395:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Geotherma.2395:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Geotherma.2395:

If a skilled player is in MF and lacking stats, and they are good at dungeons, then they should be rewarded for such.

And this is the reason why you can’t understand why people have a problem with it.
The person should NOT be rewarded for it. They are making their group worse, on purpose, for better drops. They do not in any way deserve to get more/better rewards for doing so.
Unless the group agreed to all run MF, since that means they’re fine with it being harder for better rewards.

So then anyone with less than Ascended gear is essentially doing the same. They too lack stats, much lower in fact if they are in greens. So they are being selfish too, because they haven’t got the money or time to get ascended or exotic gear to live up to your standards. I see the logic now. Everyone should run in Exotic or better gear, or you are leeching, because stat wise you aren’t contributing as much as someone with better gear/traits/ping.

Did they choose not to have the time to do fractals? Did they choose not to have enough money for exotics?
Did a MF user choose to take demonstrably terrible stats instead of something useful and then went into a group, where the only one who sees any benefit whatsoever from the terrible stats is himself?

People in MF gear in a party chose to be less useful for their own personal benefit, and such a person does not deserve better drops at the cost of their group.

So everyone who “chose” to wear MF gear did so SOLELY because they clearly WANTED to be less useful? Ah yes, and there is the explanation for 90% of this thread. People in MF “chose” to kitten over everyone else who is in better stat gear. Every.. single.. person. So from this I take that everyone hates MF wearers not because of the loss of stat, but more so because they do it ON PURPOSE to mess with people. I suppose I could say the same for those who don’t all go knights which would keep them alive longer allowing them to be more skillful. Did you ever think they got the gear because they need money, and not because in your mind everyone is out to get you who wears MF gear?

You want to know what selfish really means in GW2? Expecting others to play your way and allowing for no other forms of play or opinion.

No, they knowingly made themselves worse because they were only thinking about THEMSELVES. Their only concern when stacking MF is their OWN drops, never mind the group. They joined a group to get the benefits of being in a group, and then chose to contribute less in order to get more.

Geotherma.2395:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Geotherma.2395:

If a skilled player is in MF and lacking stats, and they are good at dungeons, then they should be rewarded for such.

And this is the reason why you can’t understand why people have a problem with it.
The person should NOT be rewarded for it. They are making their group worse, on purpose, for better drops. They do not in any way deserve to get more/better rewards for doing so.
Unless the group agreed to all run MF, since that means they’re fine with it being harder for better rewards.

So then anyone with less than Ascended gear is essentially doing the same. They too lack stats, much lower in fact if they are in greens. So they are being selfish too, because they haven’t got the money or time to get ascended or exotic gear to live up to your standards. I see the logic now. Everyone should run in Exotic or better gear, or you are leeching, because stat wise you aren’t contributing as much as someone with better gear/traits/ping.

Did they choose not to have the time to do fractals? Did they choose not to have enough money for exotics?
Did a MF user choose to take demonstrably terrible stats instead of something useful and then went into a group, where the only one who sees any benefit whatsoever from the terrible stats is himself?

People in MF gear in a party chose to be less useful for their own personal benefit, and such a person does not deserve better drops at the cost of their group.

Geotherma.2395:

If a skilled player is in MF and lacking stats, and they are good at dungeons, then they should be rewarded for such.

And this is the reason why you can’t understand why people have a problem with it.
The person should NOT be rewarded for it. They are making their group worse, on purpose, for better drops. They do not in any way deserve to get more/better rewards for doing so.
Unless the group agreed to all run MF, since that means they’re fine with it being harder for better rewards.

Tony.6028:

There seem to be 2 totally separate arguments against magic find here.

1) Practical: Wearing magic find considerably hurts the experience of your group. The group has to “carry” the MF player.

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I think this is, at the very least, debatable. As many have mentioned, there’s not a lot of data around this, and I honestly don’t think anyone notices a difference when a particular player wears magic find vs. when he/she does not. It really is more about the player than the gear.

2) Philosophical: Magic find gives you a boon that others don’t directly benefit from. This is selfish and unfair.

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The same argument can be made for increased gold from drops, but for some reason it never is. Many players don’t use consumables effectively, even though they have the resources to and the boons would help the group.

And why does every component of your build have to help your group? The fact that a player is running with you is helping the group. They’re probably nice people too. They’re being cooperative, not selfish.

If you want people playing a very specific way, find a guild with like-minded individuals, and only do content with those people. To dictate the actions and experience of everyone in the open world is extreme. Clearly, some people enjoy playing with magic find, and if it doesn’t affect you, and it makes them happy, just let them be happy.

After all, the point of the game is to have fun.

You missed the more important part on the second one: They are getting something that only they benefit from instead of something that would have been more useful to the team.

From dictionary.com:

self·ish [sel-fish]
adjective
1. devoted to or caring only for oneself; concerned primarily with one’s own interests, benefits, welfare, etc., regardless of others.
“concerned primarily with one’s own interests, benefits, welfare” (personal drops) “regardless of others” (reduced group effectiveness without the group getting anything from it)

Sure seems that intentionally making your group worse for your own singular benefit matches the definition of selfish to a tee.

GreenNekoHaunt.8527:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

GreenNekoHaunt.8527:

Kaaboose.3897:

GreenNekoHaunt.8527:

Kaaboose.3897:

GreenNekoHaunt.8527:

The only thing dramatically wrong about having full MF gear is that you’re weaker than a full berserk (I’m playing hybrid that means with full MF gear I actually hit more damage or at least more crit damage when with my few percent)

Plus MF gear has no defense or vitality. This means if you play on MF gear you have to be able to dodge and avoid most of the bosses attacks but you’re stronger than a hybrid.

I don’t understand why you people complain about full MF gear players being weak. They’re stronger than a hybrid version of them so be happy with that and expect them to be good players.

It’s like someone saying “I rather go on damage than agony resistance” and doing a fractal 20 run with 0 AR. He might be able to survive till jade maw by only dodging and avoiding. MF is no big difference hear.

You have no Major stats with MF gear. A substantial drop in stats reguardless of how you look at. As I’ve said before players thinking it doesn’t make a differnce just highlights the need to have it shared so that it’s not a useless stat to the rest of the party.
The only players NOT wanting this changed are the ones that will lose the ability to leach off other players.

Yes it’s major stat is MF still it gives you power and precision. As a hybrid user half my gear is based on power and precision the rest is based on power defense. My precision is suffering from this thus my total end damage is lower without MF but I stand longer and survive longer. MF gear decreases my damage by about ~300 and my health and defense by ~400 and increases my precision by at least +40%.

If I crit more often I don’t need as much damage anymore as almost every attack hits heavily. Plus I stack might for 30% chance on critical hit thus magic find gear gives me an extra might boost.

Then just use rampagers and be even MORE effective.

Why should I go on rampage? I don’t want condition damage. I want damage, precision, defense, vitality and optionally crit or magic find.
Plus I’m not the person who leech other people. I just think that the idea of group based MF is just weird. Plus I too am one of the magic find people that are the last standing (at least if I only go on MF with gear else I’m pretty much on the ground almost all the time)

If you don’t want condition damage then take Berserker’s. Not only does it replace MF with something useful (crit damage) it also bumps Power up to a major stat instead of MF, so you now have more Power too. So you will now always deal more damage, especially on crits.
And yeah, you kind of are leeching when you go MF. You’re passing on the burden of some of the damage you ought to be doing to other people, using up everyone’s time, in order to get more money for yourself only.

For some reason I do use berserker. No seriously I already mentioned I use berserker-soldier-hybrid. But then my damage is – as I already said – not as high as the total I reach with MF, however with berseker-soldier-hybrid I am able to stay alive even longer and even take some hits from the enemies.

Then you’re arguing that full Explorer’s has better damage but worse survivability than your hybrid setup. As in, a tradeoff. Tradeoffs aren’t directly comparable because sometimes they’ll be better, sometimes they’ll be worse. However, full Berserker’s will have even better damage than full Explorer’s will give in your example, because it doesn’t replace combat stats with non-combat stats. It will always perform the same (on defense) or better (on offense) than Explorer’s, never worse.

juno.1840:

2. It works in combat (whereas the signet passive does not)

Yes it does.

Szamsziel.5627:

One key point to discussion : all over the topics it is Rampager/Berserker only compared with Explorer one. This is only two kind of armors? If you want to play elitist create LFG – Berserker only group, gear checked. I really like to play with Soldier or Valkyrie armor. Am I a bad guy? Do I comply with your gamestyle? One of you was right – person >>>> gear. Are you playing MF in sacrifice of Vitality? Can you survive dodging? You are welcome in any PUG I play with. BTW – Explorer goes with power so actually you are doing max damage you can

The reason everyone brings up Rampager’s and Berserker’s is that they are in no conceivable way worse in a fight than Explorer’s. This doesn’t mean other stat combinations aren’t of value, it means that Explorer’s is of no value compared to Rampager’s/Berserker’s.
And no, you’re not doing the max damage you can, as Power on Explorer’s is a minor stat, compared to Berserker’s which has it as the major stat, and it lacks Crit Damage, which scales wonderfully with the precision the gear gives you.

Oranisagu.3706:

FourthVariety.5463:

What I would like, however, is MF as a type of challenge the group accepts as a group. Imagine an NPC who makes the group the following offer. Everybody loses 10% of stats, gains 10%MF (or whatever works out to be balanced). Much like groups can agree on which path to take before running a dungeon, they could agree how far to crank up the settings. -50%/+100%, anyone?

+1, love the idea. though it would clash with open world MF currently, as there it pretty much has to be a gear-stat.

I have an idea for open world: Allow players to choose to get their level downscaled (or downscaled further) for better drops.

GreenNekoHaunt.8527:

Kaaboose.3897:

GreenNekoHaunt.8527:

Kaaboose.3897:

GreenNekoHaunt.8527:

The only thing dramatically wrong about having full MF gear is that you’re weaker than a full berserk (I’m playing hybrid that means with full MF gear I actually hit more damage or at least more crit damage when with my few percent)

Plus MF gear has no defense or vitality. This means if you play on MF gear you have to be able to dodge and avoid most of the bosses attacks but you’re stronger than a hybrid.

I don’t understand why you people complain about full MF gear players being weak. They’re stronger than a hybrid version of them so be happy with that and expect them to be good players.

It’s like someone saying “I rather go on damage than agony resistance” and doing a fractal 20 run with 0 AR. He might be able to survive till jade maw by only dodging and avoiding. MF is no big difference hear.

You have no Major stats with MF gear. A substantial drop in stats reguardless of how you look at. As I’ve said before players thinking it doesn’t make a differnce just highlights the need to have it shared so that it’s not a useless stat to the rest of the party.
The only players NOT wanting this changed are the ones that will lose the ability to leach off other players.

Yes it’s major stat is MF still it gives you power and precision. As a hybrid user half my gear is based on power and precision the rest is based on power defense. My precision is suffering from this thus my total end damage is lower without MF but I stand longer and survive longer. MF gear decreases my damage by about ~300 and my health and defense by ~400 and increases my precision by at least +40%.

If I crit more often I don’t need as much damage anymore as almost every attack hits heavily. Plus I stack might for 30% chance on critical hit thus magic find gear gives me an extra might boost.

Then just use rampagers and be even MORE effective.

Why should I go on rampage? I don’t want condition damage. I want damage, precision, defense, vitality and optionally crit or magic find.
Plus I’m not the person who leech other people. I just think that the idea of group based MF is just weird. Plus I too am one of the magic find people that are the last standing (at least if I only go on MF with gear else I’m pretty much on the ground almost all the time)

If you don’t want condition damage then take Berserker’s. Not only does it replace MF with something useful (crit damage) it also bumps Power up to a major stat instead of MF, so you now have more Power too. So you will now always deal more damage, especially on crits.
And yeah, you kind of are leeching when you go MF. You’re passing on the burden of some of the damage you ought to be doing to other people, using up everyone’s time, in order to get more money for yourself only.

Kaaboose.3897:

GreenNekoHaunt.8527:

Kaaboose.3897:

GreenNekoHaunt.8527:

The only thing dramatically wrong about having full MF gear is that you’re weaker than a full berserk (I’m playing hybrid that means with full MF gear I actually hit more damage or at least more crit damage when with my few percent)

Plus MF gear has no defense or vitality. This means if you play on MF gear you have to be able to dodge and avoid most of the bosses attacks but you’re stronger than a hybrid.

I don’t understand why you people complain about full MF gear players being weak. They’re stronger than a hybrid version of them so be happy with that and expect them to be good players.

It’s like someone saying “I rather go on damage than agony resistance” and doing a fractal 20 run with 0 AR. He might be able to survive till jade maw by only dodging and avoiding. MF is no big difference hear.

You have no Major stats with MF gear. A substantial drop in stats reguardless of how you look at. As I’ve said before players thinking it doesn’t make a differnce just highlights the need to have it shared so that it’s not a useless stat to the rest of the party.
The only players NOT wanting this changed are the ones that will lose the ability to leach off other players.

Yes it’s major stat is MF still it gives you power and precision. As a hybrid user half my gear is based on power and precision the rest is based on power defense. My precision is suffering from this thus my total end damage is lower without MF but I stand longer and survive longer. MF gear decreases my damage by about ~300 and my health and defense by ~400 and increases my precision by at least +40%.

If I crit more often I don’t need as much damage anymore as almost every attack hits heavily. Plus I stack might for 30% chance on critical hit thus magic find gear gives me an extra might boost.

Then just use rampagers and be even MORE effective.

Or Berserker’s.

Ele yes, engy less so. Mainly because 2 categories of engineer’s skills, gadgets and turrets, are basically awful. Everyone runs with kits or elixirs. And if you use only kits in PvP you have no stunbreaker, which is basically a death sentence, and poor condition removal, which is also pretty well a death sentence. So in PvP everyone runs elixirs, which aren’t complicated whatsoever. Possibly combined with Grenades, but still not complicated.

Elementalist and Engineer are your choices. All elementalists have 25 skills at their disposal, unlike most others who have 15, and have a lot of combo fields and combo finishers (though the finishers are almost all in Earth).
Engineers can have up to 30 skills available if they run with 4 kits (though note that 3 of the Medkit skills are identical) (not counting the kits themselves as skills since they do nothing). Synergy in skills is a little harder to come by since they don’t exactly have all that many finishers. However, the 1s recharge on their swaps, unlike everyone else, enables kit dancing, which can allow some pretty ridiculous combos if you know everything at your disposal.

Pets are generally bad in dungeons because they pull enemies and they are too dumb to live, so ranger probably isn’t for you.
And unfortunately, despite nearly everything technically being ranged on engineer, you’re going to be in melee most of the time anyway, since grenades (their only real ranged capability) are inaccurate and hard to hit with at range, and because most enemies will charge into melee regardless of what you do.
For avoiding melee Ranger is the way to go because the pet will keep melee mobs at range, but as I said before, pets are terrible in dungeons.

Geotherma.2395:

The last 3 pages are exactly why devs don’t respond to posts and good suggestions get lost in the abyss of the suggestion forums. People will rally together for a fix in 1 thread, then spend 3 pages arguing among themselves making the thread less constructive and no longer worth paying attention to. You are defeating your own purposes here, so when no answer is found to this problem blame yourselves.

Well, you realize, this thread already GOT the answer, the first time a dev has actually commented on MF, and it turns out they agree the current state is kitten.
But yes.

google.3709:

Can we really call engineers the master of inventions considering the state of gadgets and turrets? I would say we’re more on the lines of army drop outs or energy drink addicts

Army dropouts turned hobos.

Mirta.5029:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

That other person deliberately sacrificed useful gameplay changing stats for it, and as such is less useful, and is leaning more on the rest of the team to accomplish anything. If they’re going to decrease the group’s effectiveness on purpose then they kitten well should be sharing the results.

please explain to me now why should people have one of their stats kitten instead of following a different idea from page 3, allowing people with mf to chose any kind of different gear set to use instead and make mf a hard to get infusion that you can get in a slot specifically for mf?

When did I ever say I have a problem with this? I’m fine with that.
The current implementation is what I have a problem with. There are a number of solutions to do something about the current implementation, all of which remove the selfishness factor, and that’s what I want. Be it sharing or removing (or at least stop replacing useful stuff with it), it’s better than what it currently is.