Guild Wars 2

Paradoxine.8192:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Paradoxine.8192:

Einlanzer.1627:

Mirta.5029:

Einlanzer.1627:

Mirta.5029:

Einlanzer.1627:

Once again, this doesn’t make sense. It’s not unfair for the MF user, because the MF user is benefiting from the superior combat stats of the other party members. The superior combatants are benefiting from the MF character.

By its very definition, dungeoning is a group effort. Not an individual one. You guys are seriously off the mark with this.

if it’s a group effort, then why are you not okay with sharing damage, vitality, toughness and condition damage?
Or is it just that you want to benefit from magic users without actually getting the gear yourself?

Seriously, you are thick. YOU ARE SHARING ALL STATS. It’s a team sport. Just because the stats aren’t literally divided doesn’t mean they aren’t functionally. Good players/builds bring the whole team up, bad ones bring the whole team down.

you don’t benefit from someone else having vitality or toughness, the same way that you don’t benefit from someone having mf. It’s a stat that they have. The same way that you don’t benefit from other’s damage if you’re unable to deliver 10% of it to tag a mob before it dies, therefore getting no loot.

Yes you are. the better they can stay alive the better it is for you. The more damage they do, the faster you kill things as a party regardless of your contribution. If you’re in a group you don’t have to tag a mob to get its loot, only your party does. You benefit from it regardless.

…… I don’t know what else to say to you to drive it home.

Except how useful one party members vitality and toughness stats really are is dependent on player skill and their utilisation of the skills they have. Magic find is a completely passive bonus, affecting loot tables and to have it shared between party members completely flies in the face of ANET’s unique loot table philosophy. Never mind the fact that averaging the MF will encourage “100%+ MF to join” groups.

Why should one players magic find which would usually be +25% suddenly be +5% because he plays with a party?

Uh… HOW would it undermine unique loot tables? You still get unique loot tables.

Are you kidding me?

1. Averaging MF affects the loot tables of each party member.
2. Now there is an incentive for people to only recruit people with X magic find.
3. Your loot is now no longer based solely on what mobs you tag and how much you contribute, but on whether your party members happen to have a passive stat, which they deliberately sacrificed useful gameplay changing stats for.

1. Yes, but it doesn’t make people share the loot drops unlike that other game and other games like it, which was the main focus of “unique loot tables”
2. I don’t disagree with this.
3. That other person deliberately sacrificed useful gameplay changing stats for it, and as such is less useful, and is leaning more on the rest of the team to accomplish anything. If they’re going to decrease the group’s effectiveness on purpose then they kitten well should be sharing the results.

Tony.6028:

You should sacrifice something to get magic find. That makes sense. You’re making your life more difficult in exchange for increased drops. It’s like gambling; it’s fun for some.

To be honest I don’t understand why everyone picks on magic find. There are lots of other stats that don’t help others. You’re stretching it to say that my vitality helps you. And ban all potions because your potions don’t help others; they only help you.

Just let other people play the game the way they want. It’s not a numbers game. Telling other players what armor to wear, what weapons to equip, what skills to use, what traits to invest in, what consumables to consume etc. is not fun.

Someone with more Vitality is harder to take down. Someone who isn’t downed is doing useful stuff instead of being downed, and isn’t wasting someones time to get them back up. They will also be better at getting downed people up, as they have more health to fall back on while rezzing.
And all food (except GF/MF food) helps the party for the same reason all other stats help the party. More damage, more survival, more helpful conditions, more boons, more healing, all of these things help the party.

Paradoxine.8192:

Einlanzer.1627:

Mirta.5029:

Einlanzer.1627:

Mirta.5029:

Einlanzer.1627:

Once again, this doesn’t make sense. It’s not unfair for the MF user, because the MF user is benefiting from the superior combat stats of the other party members. The superior combatants are benefiting from the MF character.

By its very definition, dungeoning is a group effort. Not an individual one. You guys are seriously off the mark with this.

if it’s a group effort, then why are you not okay with sharing damage, vitality, toughness and condition damage?
Or is it just that you want to benefit from magic users without actually getting the gear yourself?

Seriously, you are thick. YOU ARE SHARING ALL STATS. It’s a team sport. Just because the stats aren’t literally divided doesn’t mean they aren’t functionally. Good players/builds bring the whole team up, bad ones bring the whole team down.

you don’t benefit from someone else having vitality or toughness, the same way that you don’t benefit from someone having mf. It’s a stat that they have. The same way that you don’t benefit from other’s damage if you’re unable to deliver 10% of it to tag a mob before it dies, therefore getting no loot.

Yes you are. the better they can stay alive the better it is for you. The more damage they do, the faster you kill things as a party regardless of your contribution. If you’re in a group you don’t have to tag a mob to get its loot, only your party does. You benefit from it regardless.

…… I don’t know what else to say to you to drive it home.

Except how useful one party members vitality and toughness stats really are is dependent on player skill and their utilisation of the skills they have. Magic find is a completely passive bonus, affecting loot tables and to have it shared between party members completely flies in the face of ANET’s unique loot table philosophy. Never mind the fact that averaging the MF will encourage “100%+ MF to join” groups.

Why should one players magic find which would usually be +25% suddenly be +5% because he plays with a party?

Uh… HOW would it undermine unique loot tables? You still get unique loot tables.

Yeah, apparently there’s a bug right now where some servers don’t have Dirt/Snow objects or Dead Drops. Guesting around can find them. Personally, today, I guested in (US servers) Henge of Denravi for Snow and Tarnished Coast for Dirt, found all 3 in both of them. I don’t know if Denravi has Dirt or TC has Snow.

Behellagh.1468:

There is no tagging for XP.

Well, yeah, actually there is. However you won’t steal from anyone else by doing so (barring getting it killed before others can tag it).

Mirta.5029:

Invictus.1503:

MrKnieves.4162:

Skill > Gear stats.

I’ve seen people get slaughtered with toughness/vitality armor while I laugh at their corpses while wearing full MF gear.

Agreed, but for the point of this discussion you have to assume all other variables are equal (otherwise it is a pointless discussion). So a player of exactly the same level of skill, knowledge of area, etc. who where full maximized gear is statistically going to fair better than one who gears for magic find.

except that in game all variables are not equal and players are not judged on numbers

Uh… yeah… that’s the POINT of assuming all variables are equal, other than the ones being looked at (in this case, the difference between Berserker/Rampager and Explorer).
The only way to compare things with each other is to eliminate as many variables as possible. And since they are numerically comparable if everything else is the same (say, comparing on a per-hit basis) it is valid. And it demonstrates the complete inferiority of one to the other.

As Trogdor said, mats can be sent to the bank from anywhere by right clicking them and Depositing them, but you can also Deposit All Collectibles by clicking the gear in the top right corner of the inventory menu. Also, the deposited materials will be in a special tab at the bank specifically for materials, not in the regular tab, so check both.
And a suggestion for a dodge rebind: put it on a thumb button on your mouse if you have one. You don’t have to move a finger very far to hit dodge that way, which is important for getting them timed correctly.

Your IQ metaphor doesn’t work because the 110s didn’t choose to have a lower IQ than the 120s.
A MF user explicitly chooses to make themselves worse for their own gain. This choice makes them worse for their group without actually giving the group anything in return, only the user. Every other stat, every other stat combination, could be argued to be the most effective thing for some circumstance, could be argued to be the best thing for that person. Everything else could conceivably be of more value than any other stat combination in some circumstance or another. Everything except the gear with MF, which is strictly worse than another set.

So would you defend a gear set that has 3 minor stats instead of 1 major 2 minor, with an identical set to another gear set, because “if someone wants to use it blah blah”?
Or would you say that the gear set is completely pointless and devoid of value compared to its superior stat set?

Since you’re (Mirta) clearly going to continue denying your own words, how about working with your example.
So this terrible warrior who dies instantly because he doesn’t know what he’s doing. Yes, gear is irrelevant there because he was too incompetent to live long enough to use it. However, this doesn’t say anything about the value of the MF gear compared to it, as neither had enough of a chance to do anything that can be compared.
To compare the value of the gear, look to a more successful situation. The warrior stays alive pretty well, dealing damage the way they’re supposed to and generally being competent. But in MF he is dealing quite a bit less damage than he would be in Berserker’s. Not because of any difference in play, but because Berserker’s is equal to or superior to Explorer’s in every way. Explorer’s has absolutely no redeeming value in a fight over it.

Mirta.5029:

let’s forget that they’re helping the team out and actually are doing some damage. Are you implying that a person not in exotics or ascendeds doesn’t contribute to the team? IF a person runs with rares in your opinion he should be kicked, because he’s in no way a help?

Maybe someone in rares couldn’t afford exotics? Maybe they’re doing dungeon runs in order to GET exotics?
But if someone is in exotic MF gear obviously they could afford exotics, but then they chose to get the less effective copy of Berserker’s/Rampager’s so they could get better drops and then run in a group with it.
They intentionally nerfed themselves, and by extension their group, for personal (not shared) gain.

Mirta.5029:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Mirta.5029:

Did you try to run any high level dungeon with an inexperienced Berserker warrior? How much damage do you do while dirtnapping? How much a person can contribute doesn’t always depend on their gear. In fact gear plays almost no role in it.

So you claim that gear plays almost no role, immediately after bringing up Berserker warriors, a gear setup, as if it is an extremely important fact that heavily changes the capabilities of that warrior.
Great going.

I bring up berserker, because it’s the gear set with the most damage. A person that opened this topic says that the best way to contribute is trough damage, that mf users are wrong because they do less damage. So I fitted the highest damaging class with the highest damaging gear and asked – if the player is not perfect and spends most of his time dead how much damage do they do? Can’t the person help out with healing, condition removal, revival?
How helpful a person is depends a) on their skill b) on their wish to help the team and cooperate, rarely is it anything to do with gear.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Do vitality and toughness provide value to the team? Yes. A person who is not down is dealing damage or doing other useful things. A downed person is doing jackall and is wasting someones time to rez them. You already said as much in your previous point.
Does MF provide any benefit to the group ever? Nope. Is MF gear strictly worse at fighting than Berserker’s or Knight’s? Yep.

let’s say the person wearing vitality gear never got hit. Not a single time. But they don’t want to upgrade to berserkers. A person wearing mf outdamages the person in vitality gear that doesn’t get hit. How come the mf user is wrong here, but not the vitality user? How about we stop caring about the gear sets of others and just provide the best help for our team?

So Berserker’s is both “the gear set with the most damage” and at the same time “plays almost no role” in gameplay, is what you’re saying. Make up your mind before arguing with yourself.

If the person wearing survival gear never gets hit then their gear doesn’t match their playstyle. However, survival stats aren’t inherently valueless in combat the way MF is, as someone who can’t avoid all attacks will benefit from it, while MF gear is always less effective than gear that has the same non-MF stats, but has something actually useful instead of MF.

Mirta.5029:

Did you try to run any high level dungeon with an inexperienced Berserker warrior? How much damage do you do while dirtnapping? How much a person can contribute doesn’t always depend on their gear. In fact gear plays almost no role in it.

So you claim that gear plays almost no role, immediately after bringing up Berserker warriors, a gear setup, as if it is an extremely important fact that heavily changes the capabilities of that warrior.
Great going.

Vitality being the highest stat, then toughness, then power. A mf user will outdamage this person. Do you think that the person in those stats is selfish? You would say, no, they survive well. Then why do you oppose mf user? Because even if he survives without vit/ toughness he could sacrifice mf for extra damage, because he is being selfish. So essentially he is being selfish by not providing enough damage even though he can outdamage other gear sets. Not to mention the gear set with mf and condi damage. Condi damage never comes with power anyway. But no, those people are guilty of something too. It’s selfish to care about what others wear.

Do vitality and toughness provide value to the team? Yes. A person who is not down is dealing damage or doing other useful things. A downed person is doing jackall and is wasting someones time to rez them. You already said as much in your previous point.
Does MF provide any benefit to the group ever? Nope. Is MF gear strictly worse at fighting than Berserker’s or Knight’s? Yep.

Ashecroft.7321:

I don’t know of any 1 button to kill yourself, but every skill you use takes a little bit of your life force to use, so spamming those skills would make you kill yourself faster at least.

No it doesn’t. Only if you’re Confused or the enemy has Retaliation, no different from any other attack.

tuskan.1205:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Valanga.5942:

Well, let’s hope ANet will do to us something similar at what they did to rangers…
Nerf after nerf after nerf, but they got Reef Drake pet!
And now quiver and bow skins!

So… what you’re saying is… Karka-themed Thumper Turret and an ammo pouch for our bullets?

And the ammo is made of nerfs so when you hit another class they get nerfed

So OP!
But then some fool will chuck a Grenade Barrage at a Feedback bubble and we’ll get nerfed 8 times.

Valanga.5942:

Well, let’s hope ANet will do to us something similar at what they did to rangers…
Nerf after nerf after nerf, but they got Reef Drake pet!
And now quiver and bow skins!

So… what you’re saying is… Karka-themed Thumper Turret and an ammo pouch for our bullets?

So then you don’t disagree with the sentence I constructed for both of them where the only difference between them is that one only penalizes you when you succeed, the rest penalize you regardless.
Also, for the definitions, note that both include “require(d)”. A cost has the prerequisite of having enough to pay for it beforehand.

The only way stealth isn’t a “cost” of a stealth attack is if it didn’t remove it no matter what. However, if a stealth attack is successful, it is GUARANTEED to remove stealth. The way you define it, paying a lawyer that only charges you their fee if your side wins isn’t a “cost”, while paying one that charges you regardless is.

Stealth attacks most definitely have a cost. They require a specific condition be met (being in stealth), and upon being used (properly) that condition (stealth) is lost as a result.
Every other non-auto attack in the game: They require a specific condition be met (being off cooldown or having enough initiative) and upon being used (properly or not) that condition is lost (it is now on cooldown, or initiative is lost). The only difference in these 2 statements is that every other attack in the game loses the requirement for usage (or reduces initiative) regardless of success or failure.

Travlane.5948:

so ur arguing that the game designers are idiots and made a mistake? or are you arguing that they didnt realize they did this or are you arguing that it shouldnt be this way even tho its obviously intended to be? im glad that you finally agree that intiatitive is a cost to use attacks 2-5….however stealth isnt a cost. its a qualifying condition that activates the ability to use stealth attacks. and as stealth reads you dont lose it unless you deal a successful hit. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stealth read this it may help. its this way bc you realize if u drop stealth on any attack …excluding wiffs….. then you weaking the ENTIRE thief by around 40% (estimating but def not far off) …..not just the backstab. granted your idea makes CnD stronger and tbh you can abuse CND by chaining it ….blocks….blind …invulnerability would thenactivate stealth and making it much harder…imagine that….just 5k dmg sometims 6k dmg…ill just chain it all day….i dont know bc of blinds….blocks etc. they made it this way bc its more balanced. its why they made stealth its own category….not just a regular/general buff that is different on different skills. every invis gives 3 seconds….its very generic and not skill specific. SR = 3 secs invis each pulse. kinda like the huge AOE blind that necros have per pulse. blinding powder 3 secs. CND 3 secs. HIS 3 secs. combo finisher 3 secs. etc etc. where as OTHER buffs are usually all different times depending on class….skill….weapon etc.

Why are you constantly explaining to me how stealth works? I understand that.
Stealth is the requirement and cost of a stealth attack. But unlike everything else in the game, it only pays that cost on success. If you want to talk about “qualifying conditions” then let’s bring up cooldowns and initiative. The “qualifying condition” to use a skill is for it to not be on cooldown, or for you to have enough initiative, which is then paid when it is used. There, you now have it in the same category as stealth attacks. Congratulations. Oh but there’s still the issue of everything else pays the cost from their “qualifying condition” regardless of success. Every other melee or ground-target ability requires the person to learn how to aim their attack or pay the price. They all learned to play. Why do you think thieves shouldn’t have to learn to aim?

And if all these doomsday scenarios you present are true, then maybe they should make thief less reliant on a completely broken mechanic and let them stand without the crutch (while throwing said crutch into a fire)?

Travlane.5948:

you dont understand the basics of thief. ask another they will tell you the same. DMG is what gives stealth on CND….and DMG is what removes stealth on BS. NOT blocking. initiative is a prerequisite cost for activating skills 2-5 …..where as a cooldown is a pos activation cost for using a skill that doesnt require anything. despite the skill causing dmg or not it still had a requisite to use. otherwise….there would be a refund for successfully connecting on a hit. and that would just be so silly :P

I understand how it works perfectly fine. The argument is that it SHOULDN’T work like that. Every powerful skill in the game is penalized for counterplay by not being usable again (or costing initiative for thief) except for stealth attacks. This IS the case, but it SHOULD NOT be. And yet you’re apparently incapable of realizing that just as initiative is the cost of other thief weapon skills, stealth is the cost of stealth attacks. Except that it’s only lost if it succeeds, unlike everything else in the game.

Travlane.5948:

how twisted….“you lose the intiative if you fail CND?” lol u lose the initiative as its activated….not because it failed….and its the same if it lands. and its the difference in definition of buff. i guess everything that is"positive" in nature towards helping a character is a buff rather than a trait or background “boost” so lets divide it into 2 kinds of buffs……1 kind of buff can be removed/shortened/changed by outside interferenance……the other cannot be changed …dropped…or shortened by outside (enemy) interference. stealth….well it goes in with the ones that cant be. and like i said…..if hitting a block/invulnerability/aegis counts as a hit….CND would go off and give invis…..but bc it doesnt……… ew dont lose invis on hitting the same. It would ruin a thieves offense…defense…and heals/condi removal if made to be weak and easily affected. there are ways of removing thieves from stealth…..aegis/blocks is not one of them. stealth is affected by damage…..direct dmg…not misses or blocks….but by a knife going into an enemy ….on poking a shield. just the way it is. if it were to change it so bad players could beat even the best thieves….then even uncatchable trait (since ur not a thief ill explain that to u….it gives caltrops on dodges) would remove invis….making stealth builds impossible…same with traps….and etc . btw all classes have to pay something for activating skills ….cooldowns…..intiatitive….adrenaline….. something… despite failing or connecting.

If you can’t see the resemblance between losing initiative/going on cooldown regardless of success and losing stealth with a stealth attack regardless of success there’s absolutely no use talking with you.
Oh and you don’t get stealth off a block because you FAILED. You should similarly lose stealth when you fail with a stealth attack because you FAILED.

Travlane.5948:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Travlane… Stealth is a buff. Period.
All of those things that lose charges from counterplay enhance offensive, control, or survival capabilities. Which stealth also does. Everything else in the game is penalized for failure, especially when it’s because someone else forced them to fail.
But stealth is not.

buffs can be lengthened by traits….skills…..food….etc. not stealth. its in a category by itself…..kind of like stun…..or defiant…..or signet passives…..they can be viewed as buffs but really are just “buff like” ….as hard as it is to explain….. but even if u were 100% right….the fact that if u attack and get blocked and removes invis = stealth perma lock/half as usefull….affects thieves defense….offense….heals…and evasion and condition removal by making stealth half as usefull.

now we know that if you do a Cloack and Dagger attack and its blocked you DO NOT get invis right? well its contact….blocked…but contact right? so if we dont do dmg and still invis gets removed….that means regardless of blocks it counts as a hit…..that means ur saying that conditions should apply to enemies regardless of dmg……invis should be applied on CND regardless of blocked or not……. well it cant be both ways…… maybe its better left as it is? :P

EDIT: also if u press 1 twice in a row its almost 2 seconds of time. u would have to use BS the first second after you go invis incase you m iss to use it again….super hard if osmebody is moving…..so you have 2 secs instead of 3 to land a bs WHILE they are moving……cmon….its a L2 kitten ue……BS/CND barely hit at a 50% success rate….im willing to bet its more around 40 % or so.

You’re describing a boon, which is a buff of a specific category. Signet bonuses are also buffs because they improve your character’s capabilities beyond basic levels. So are food, sigil stacks, things like distortion, venoms, and yes, stealth.
Also of note is that stealth is by far the most modular buff in the game, capable of much more customization than anything else, with damage, healing, condition removal, initiative gain, and movement speed all possible attachments to it. It’s almost as if there’s an entire trait line dedicated to enhancing stealth.

And it’s interesting you bring up CnD not doing anything if it’s blocked. You lose the initiative cost of it when it fails. It’s almost as if it’s held to a standard where using it wrong results in a penalty, wherein you lose the same thing whether or not it works correctly. Like, say, if someone uses a block, a dodge, or a blind, and you fire it through it. How very interesting.

Every single stat except MF benefits everyone in the group (barring condition duration or boon duration when someone doesn’t have a condition or boon). Whether it’s killing enemies faster (less time spent to accomplish it, less risk because enemy dies faster), not dying (more time doing something useful, less wasting other peoples’ time to rez you), or more directly with conditions or boon (or not, which then just makes them kill faster or die less).
The only equipment stat in the game that has no benefit whatsoever to anyone but the user is MF.
Sharing it in some way wouldn’t be leeching off of that person for the same reason that it’s not leeching with any other stat.

Also I don’t much want MF shared either, I want it gone from equipment, but sharing is better than the current state. A personal permanent MF buff such as one bought with skill points or something like that would be fine, as long as it’s not wasting stat points in the process (I don’t count utility infusions because the infusion stats are so utterly insignificant other than AR).

Ghostwolf.9863:

So it’s unskillful play from the guardian side to put it up while the thief is in stealth, if not using it to avoid the backstab along with dodges and turning the front towards the thief or running away from the slow stealthed thief.

And it’s unskillful play for the thief to just hit 1 twice to ignore the Aegis as well.
Why does Aegis protect against every single attack with one powerful hit that isn’t explicitly unblockable EXCEPT Backstab?
Also, if they’re D/P then they don’t actually have to land a hit in order to stealth with their weapon set.

Or how about another example? P/D stealths, you use SoA in order to avoid Sneak Attack. Except then they get to use it again anyway. Why is it better to avoid 4 out of 5 and get hit by 1 instead of avoiding the whole thing?

Brassnautilus.2941:

block can happen at any moment by pressing of a button, and certain forms of block (aegis) has no duration limitation.
special strikes from stealth on other hand are limited by the short window of stealth.

a successful block on a special strike had already achieved its purpose. There’s no reason for it to reveal the attacker, who has an even smaller window to perform special strike again.

want to make it reveal, fine, make backstab unblockable.

Yes, the block achieved its purpose, the avoidance of a heavy hit.
Wait no, it didn’t do that, because they can use it again half a second later, completely ignoring it.
Let’s look at every other non-auto attack in the game: If it is prevented due to counterplay, it still goes on cooldown (Burst skills are somewhat excepted since they only get short cooldown and don’t lose adrenaline, which also shouldn’t be the case). An action was taken to prevent the use of a dangerous ability, and the user paid the price for it being successfully countered.
But not stealth attacks.

Dasorine.1964:

Yes you will, condition duration sigils stack.

You can also use 2 on-kill sigils at the same time to get 2 stacks per kill instead of 1 (as long as they are stacking the same effect and of the same power)

Oh. Huh, so condition duration stacks with itself but the other permanent buff sigils don’t. Didn’t see that part. Sorry about that one then.

Another point I forgot to add to that then: You can’t hide the fact that you’re not level 80. If a group accepts a sub-80 then they do so with full knowledge of the fact that they’re not going to be as powerful as an 80.
MF users aren’t detectable and those so inclined (such as you, as you admitted) can lie about it if the group actually wants to be informed about it.
Yes, this would be solved by a MF buff icon, but that unfortunately leads to an inspection feature, which though it would solve that problem opens up many more.

Did someone make a conscious decision to not be level 80? No.
Did someone make a conscious decision to nerf their damage or survivability in order to buff their own drops? Yes.
Did that someone then make a conscious decision to join a group with their intentionally nerfed selves and get better drops than their group in return for them doing less? Also yes.

Mechanics that do little but encourage kitteny behavior shouldn’t be in the game.

Travlane… Stealth is a buff. Period.
All of those things that lose charges from counterplay enhance offensive, control, or survival capabilities. Which stealth also does. Everything else in the game is penalized for failure, especially when it’s because someone else forced them to fail.
But stealth is not.

Dasorine.1964:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

swinsk.6410:

Your thread is misleading.

The title should be “Thief getting blocked in stealth and not getting revealed”

Which is how the game has been since beta. I prefer it this way. As a warrior if you wait until like 2s after a thief stealth and then hit the block button, you will cause them to come our of stealth. Then dodge the cnd or cc them to get some hits in.

Whenever I play as a non thief, stealth has never been a problem for me.

L2p.

It’s not a l2 kitten ue, it’s an issue that thief is able to ignore some forms of counterplay because of a bad mechanic. Which is further supported by the fact that a large number of other limited-hit-count sigils/skills were changed to lose hits when they fail due to counterplay.

Wasn’t that change actually to fix a bug of them fading on any cast regardless of there being a target around? I seem to recall a discussion about that back then.

They already faded on the block etc the patch just made sure it was only in all those circumstances it worked rather than complete misses as well… so they werent changed for that functionality specifically as they already had it.

Even if that’s the case (I don’t really know) it still leaves a whole bunch of skills/traits/sigils that have limited use procs that are decreased by counterplay, when stealth, which falls into the exact same category, does not.

swinsk.6410:

Your thread is misleading.

The title should be “Thief getting blocked in stealth and not getting revealed”

Which is how the game has been since beta. I prefer it this way. As a warrior if you wait until like 2s after a thief stealth and then hit the block button, you will cause them to come our of stealth. Then dodge the cnd or cc them to get some hits in.

Whenever I play as a non thief, stealth has never been a problem for me.

L2p.

It’s not a l2 kitten ue, it’s an issue that thief is able to ignore some forms of counterplay because of a bad mechanic. Which is further supported by the fact that a large number of other limited-hit-count sigils/skills were changed to lose hits when they fail due to counterplay.

Ugh just realized I accidentally typed the wrong address earlier :/

No. Sigils of the same type will not stack with each other.
Stacking on-kill sigils (like Bloodlust), which only allow a single stack (though switching out a weapon for a different sigil once you hit 25 is a good idea since they’ll stick around).
Also, every sigil with a cooldown (whether it be on-crit or on-weapon-swap) will share cooldowns, putting others on cooldown as well, which makes putting 2 on-crit sigils or 2 on-weapon-swap sigils on a waste (though you could have one of each and be functional, but they’ll still conflict with each other).

Quick tip: the wiki still needs a lot of work, and there’s really no telling where it needs it. Use gw2db.com for stuff like recipes.
EDIT: crap, wrote the wrong thing :/

Kaizer.7135:

Then aegis would DESTROY thieves, once you see them go stealth > aegis > block > thief revealed for 4 secs > CC > dead thief.

Of course, an experienced thief can get out of any battle alive as long as they dont get kitteny or are just good.

So wait out stealth, hit immediately after it ends to break Aegis, restealth, try again.
Or play P/D and not care since you’ll still hit 3/4 with Sneak Attack.

tuskan.1205:

How can no one bring attention to the OP elixer gun? I hit so hard with the tranquilizer dart that it deletes my target from the internet. And the range is like 400000

Sorry, I was too distracted by how awesome Healing Turret is now. I mean, it gives a lot of regen! And water fields occasionally! Holy kitten, so good!
I can’t even tell it’s worse in basically every way than Healing Spring!

Sinanju.8456:

Cry me a river tuskan. I love the taste of tears.

That whooshed over your head like the experimental jetpack named Jump Shot.
I mean, did anyone check out that hangtime?

GreenNekoHaunt.8527:

circuitnerd.5863:

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

I read somewhere that soulbound items become account bound when you place them in the bank and the delete the character, so that seems to work for at least some items (like starter gear?) but I haven’t tried it myself.

Nah it doesn’t. It is still soulbound to your deleted character. I’ve done it before. Nothing left to do but destroy it, or leave it there for posterity or whatever.

Some soulbound items can be recycled or sold… still better than destroying.

Salvaged maybe, but you can’t put them in your inventory in order to sell them.

Iove.3902:

How the hell can someone know when an invisible enemy is going to stab them in the back and block it? You’d need some super sixth sense for that.

Because it’s a magical effect that says “kitten you” to the next attempt to harm the individual?
While we’re on realism arguments, how do you dodge an explosion without actually leaving its radius?

Jinks.2057:

Aegis is too easy to put up.

Guardian has 2 skills that can apply Aegis, 1 automatic at 50% health from a trait, and 1 that only works if they revive someone. Retreat has a 60s cooldown, Courage has a 90s cooldown for an on-demand Aegis, 40s/30s for an effectively random one.
That’s hardly easy to put up.

Dasorine.1964:

In the same way with acid bomb you get the stealth after the damage however you’ve then just put a damaging pool down, one tick from that on something and you get revealed.

Also, every Blast finisher deals the damage after the effect, unlike Leaps, so if you hit something with the Blast you’ll be Revealed.

Magic find.
15char

Dean Calaway.9718:

I’m not sure how you find MF is handicapping the team, if a player dies a lot that doesn’t mean he’s running with MF, maybe he’s just bad or it’s not his day.
Personally I think someone that uses all MF gear knows what he’s actually doing.

It’s handicapping the team because due to the stats difference they perform significantly worse.
And no, MF has no bearing whatsoever on whether or not someone is a skilled/knowledgeable player All it shows is how a player is willing to sacrifice damage or survival for something that isn’t combat related and only for themselves.

Kaimick.5109:

So what your saying is it is bad to leech and be a hinderance to the party, but if they share it so you can leech now it is fine? Do you listen to your self when you type this crap.

How is that crap that someone is less concerned about their time being wasted when they’re being paid for the trouble?

MiLkZz.4789:

The majority of the hardcore players in WvW want plain simple PvP, not SiegevSiege.

I liked zerg vs zerg, because a zerg was atleast easy to take down.

And you’re arguing against something that has nothing to do with PvP and everything to do with players attacking an inanimate object that doesn’t fight back. Hence, PvDoor.
At least SiegevSiege is still players fighting each other (though not many of them), PvD is PvE in its most literal sense.

MiLkZz.4789:

If this idea gets implemented you will lose all the top guilds. They will move to a game that has PvP, they wouldn’t care how crappy their graphics are, as long as it has decent PvP.

Looks like Anet decided that PvP doesn’t belong in WvW, character skill should be used on mobs not players. WvW should be siege only they say. This is plain boring and requires no skill. It will become like chess with good graphics. And I don’t like to play chess, I like something that requires fast thinking, reflexes and good hand-eye coordination.

So preventing huge masses of people from autoattacking a door for 10 minutes decreases the skill needed to play the game, is what you’re saying.

Gab Superstar.4059:

The suggestion is a step in the right direction but perhaps allowing people to damage a door once it is below 10% health would be a better solution.

Or perhaps unupgraded doors can be damaged but upgraded require siege.

Chaba.5410:

Never really seen any builds with it.

That’s because it’s fairly common knowledge in the Engineer community that it doesn’t actually work.

Uberkafros.5431:

In every mmo thieves/rogues are the most hated class.
Is it the class mechanics that provke the hate?
Is it the gamers behind the class that usually are the worst kind ? (maybe they RP their class )

No one will ever now.

It’s both, but really the fault for the focused hate lies in the mechanics. Without the mechanics the terrible people are spread around, but with the jerk mechanics in place the jerks congregate on that class, focusing the hate of the terrible people in 1 place (which just so happens to have the mechanics hate in there as well).
In short, stop putting rogue archetypes in multiplayer games.

Make an item to allow you to preview what a legendary looks like combined with your skills. The item will have 0 damage so it is useless, can’t be transmuted, and looks like a regular white item skin to anyone but the user. This will prevent devaluing of legendaries, but allow people to see what the effects are when using a legendary that can’t be seen in a simple preview (such as footsteps and projectile alterations).

Chaba.5410:

The nerf to confusion and retaliation in WvWvW actually opens up more grenades and flamethrower. Too many engineers were downing themselves.

The confusion change doesn’t affect grenades/flamethrower more than anything else, it triggers per-skill use. The retaliation change is the big one there.