that’s what I do assessing team compositions beforehand try and see what fits
I like the playstyle – supporting not great with damage dealing professions I like to feel I am more of a supporter but there you go
I keep on trying anyway
Can’t they do it like GW1 and capes? Everyone who PvPs gets a cape, but only tournament winners get a trim.
So GW2, the PvE argument is this is the only legendary backpiece available, and they want it for the stats since they think it’s an ugly skin anyways. So maybe Anet could make it so anyone who PvPs can get the backpiece, but top players get a unique trim/aura/effect on the backpiece itself?
Boom. Everyone wins. PvErs get their legendary. PvPers get a slightly more prestigious version.
agree with this
Wing should be for people who got to legendary rank only. It really losses all meaning when you can get it in 3-4 seasons and never gt pass ruby. There are plenty of pve rewards a pvp player will never get there is nothing wrong with some pvp only stuff.
I do however think the match making in season 2 has more or less kittened of over 1/2 of the pvpers maybe more. They could have done better to implement a system where skill is rewarded without making the avg player’s life a hell.
is the legendary backpack a PVE item with stat switching – the only one currently available in the game – I think if you work hard over time commit to pvp and improve over time I think you should be able to get it whether u reach legendary rank or not.
Also I assume they did it to prop up the dwindling pvp player base -
there are other things such as the badges and titles that show off someone with legendary status – so no I think if you work hard dedicate and put the time and effort in you should be able to get it – of course you still have to earn it and not just get it for nothing
Firstly, that response wasn’t really intended to be a conclusive criticism or an analysis of the other thread’s opening post or even just me being mean: It was exclusively a challenge. Which is what the PvP divisions, and earning the wings, are supposed to be. They’re supposed to be something which you go out and conquer, and even though S2 has had matchmaking issues, I am fully convinced that this is still the state of the content. If someone’s upset or feels slighted by the MM system then turn that passion into productive energy and use that energy to get better at the game.
In the context of that thread, it’s especially so. The thread’s OP was sad that because they missed the first season of the year they didn’t believe that they’d be able to hit the division clear requirement for the achievements, but that assumes that the MM rules remain the same, when ANet’s all but confirmed that they won’t. It’s entirely likely that if they are indeed in MMR hell, the next season will give them an opportunity to leave that hell and get back to winning and/or grinning.
But there are two other points I’d like to touch on;
1. Toxicity. This is a tricky one but I honestly don’t believe that the seasons’ structure, or the playerbase, have actually become more toxic, for two key reasons.
Firstly, there’s the very flat analysis that I believe this toxicity has always been a part of the GW2 game. It’s always a part of any online game, but it’s not necessarily the case that this toxicity has increased- proportionally, at least. I think it’s not an unfair analysis that more people are participating in the Ranked seasons. So where do these increased rates of ‘toxic interactions’ come from?… The rate hasn’t increased, it’s just the raw numbers of posts on gw2 forums, reddit, etc has increased.
Secondly, the toxicity’s coming out because people are actually being put to the grinder and need to prove themselves to push through divisions. The stakes have never been higher for the average player- so of course that high pressure results in higher emotions. But personally, I’d rather have emotions running, at least in some content, than to have it all be nice and comfortable all the way through. After all, if you want to just play comfortably, there’s Unranked and Hotjoin.
2. Reward ‘entitlement’. This has, I think, also been a big problem in GW2. Like I said just before, players have never been put to the grinder. Almost every item in the game has been “if you work for long enough, you’ll get this thing!” with very few exceptions- Unless you have extremely ambitious goals, like earning every BLTC skin on release, but let’s leave that for now. The Wings seem to generate this much controversy strictly because they demand that players be willing to not only put forth effort but better themselves- at least, if you missed a season. But this texture, the rewards which you have to work for, are something that GW2’s been sorely lacking since launch- and you’re right, it’s also what’s getting the “gimme ezmode raids!” feathers ruffled.
Part of me wishes that the Wings may have even required Diamond or Legendary, just so it’s very clear that this is the intent, that you have to push to get better at the game, rather than the game saying “oh you’re not very good? that’s okay, you had great attendance on your classes, you get an A!”
Apologies if I’ve completely missed the point of the thread, but hopefully I’ve written something that can provide some insight.
Unfortauntely it’s not just an issue in this game, people in general, seem to have the mindset of “I want this, so it should be mine” in modern society.
I’ve noticed it seems to be the same few people that are posting, being annoyed with match making, saying they’re not being rewarded for PvPing etc. I’m not trying to get on these peoples cases, I’m interested to know if they PvPed much before the Leagues, or did they just start when the backpiece was revealed, as a reward.
There’s no way for us tell if people are playing really well, and that it’s their team mates that are the problem, or if they’re somewhat oblivious to their own shortcomings. The only way to tell, is if they post video footage.
I’ve not experienced this “MMR Hell” that is apparently rampant in the game. I’ve been enjoying Season 2 and haven’t had a problem advancing through the Divisions. Not saying I’m great or anything, as I’m not. I’m more than likely around an average skill level. I’ve only PvP’d for a year and a few months now, so I’m nowhere near the skill of the pros, that have done it since launch.
I can see their frustration, at these big losing streaks, no one likes losing. Perhaps if they took a break after a loss, it might help a bit? If I lose a game, I’ll stop and do something else. Not only does it work wonders for your state of mind, it also stops you getting paired up with/against the same players.
taking breaks has never worked for me
Out of interest, what class/build do you play?
I have always tended to be strongest in D/F auramancer support ele, but also have been playing reaper necro and dh guardan
You will get it eventually check the twitch link out – it might not be this year
Firstly, that response wasn’t really intended to be a conclusive criticism or an analysis of the other thread’s opening post or even just me being mean: It was exclusively a challenge. Which is what the PvP divisions, and earning the wings, are supposed to be. They’re supposed to be something which you go out and conquer, and even though S2 has had matchmaking issues, I am fully convinced that this is still the state of the content. If someone’s upset or feels slighted by the MM system then turn that passion into productive energy and use that energy to get better at the game.
In the context of that thread, it’s especially so. The thread’s OP was sad that because they missed the first season of the year they didn’t believe that they’d be able to hit the division clear requirement for the achievements, but that assumes that the MM rules remain the same, when ANet’s all but confirmed that they won’t. It’s entirely likely that if they are indeed in MMR hell, the next season will give them an opportunity to leave that hell and get back to winning and/or grinning.
But there are two other points I’d like to touch on;
1. Toxicity. This is a tricky one but I honestly don’t believe that the seasons’ structure, or the playerbase, have actually become more toxic, for two key reasons.
Firstly, there’s the very flat analysis that I believe this toxicity has always been a part of the GW2 game. It’s always a part of any online game, but it’s not necessarily the case that this toxicity has increased- proportionally, at least. I think it’s not an unfair analysis that more people are participating in the Ranked seasons. So where do these increased rates of ‘toxic interactions’ come from?… The rate hasn’t increased, it’s just the raw numbers of posts on gw2 forums, reddit, etc has increased.
Secondly, the toxicity’s coming out because people are actually being put to the grinder and need to prove themselves to push through divisions. The stakes have never been higher for the average player- so of course that high pressure results in higher emotions. But personally, I’d rather have emotions running, at least in some content, than to have it all be nice and comfortable all the way through. After all, if you want to just play comfortably, there’s Unranked and Hotjoin.
2. Reward ‘entitlement’. This has, I think, also been a big problem in GW2. Like I said just before, players have never been put to the grinder. Almost every item in the game has been “if you work for long enough, you’ll get this thing!” with very few exceptions- Unless you have extremely ambitious goals, like earning every BLTC skin on release, but let’s leave that for now. The Wings seem to generate this much controversy strictly because they demand that players be willing to not only put forth effort but better themselves- at least, if you missed a season. But this texture, the rewards which you have to work for, are something that GW2’s been sorely lacking since launch- and you’re right, it’s also what’s getting the “gimme ezmode raids!” feathers ruffled.
Part of me wishes that the Wings may have even required Diamond or Legendary, just so it’s very clear that this is the intent, that you have to push to get better at the game, rather than the game saying “oh you’re not very good? that’s okay, you had great attendance on your classes, you get an A!”
Apologies if I’ve completely missed the point of the thread, but hopefully I’ve written something that can provide some insight.
Unfortauntely it’s not just an issue in this game, people in general, seem to have the mindset of “I want this, so it should be mine” in modern society.
I’ve noticed it seems to be the same few people that are posting, being annoyed with match making, saying they’re not being rewarded for PvPing etc. I’m not trying to get on these peoples cases, I’m interested to know if they PvPed much before the Leagues, or did they just start when the backpiece was revealed, as a reward.
There’s no way for us tell if people are playing really well, and that it’s their team mates that are the problem, or if they’re somewhat oblivious to their own shortcomings. The only way to tell, is if they post video footage.
I’ve not experienced this “MMR Hell” that is apparently rampant in the game. I’ve been enjoying Season 2 and haven’t had a problem advancing through the Divisions. Not saying I’m great or anything, as I’m not. I’m more than likely around an average skill level. I’ve only PvP’d for a year and a few months now, so I’m nowhere near the skill of the pros, that have done it since launch.
I can see their frustration, at these big losing streaks, no one likes losing. Perhaps if they took a break after a loss, it might help a bit? If I lose a game, I’ll stop and do something else. Not only does it work wonders for your state of mind, it also stops you getting paired up with/against the same players.
taking breaks has never worked for me
@ OP: Very good points and I largely agree. However, there’s another aspect to this.
Chaith in one of the replies to someone on that thread mentioned the rewards that Gladiators in WoW can get as a comparison. However, there’s a pretty large portion of the population that’kitten Legendary status. I’d love to hear some exact stats, but I’m pretty sure it’s a much larger percentage of the population. Because of this, it’s going to be harder to get people to see the Legendary rank as something just for the top players and instead many people think that because they think that they are above average, they should be legendary too.
At the end of the day, it’s got to be a balancing nightmare for ANet since we have a community that has a huge sense of entitlement, which doesn’t seem to comprehend that in competitive PvP, we can’t all be winners.
you don’t need to reach legendary rank to obtain the rewards
Anet should have made the wings available through a seasons-only reward track. Adding those professional achievements just was added insult to injury.
Of course ap hunter then go and try to get that last 1 ap… kittening up matches for four other players.
Stupid, just plain stupid.
agree with this +1
I agree. The devs seem convinced that players don’t “earn” wins if the matchmaker is set up for 50/50 win ratio. That may not be true, but it’s the impression I get.
If it is true, I don’t understand the reasoning. At any rate, the previous system worked and the current system does not.
The previous system didn’t work because of mmr tanking, allowed literally anybody regardless of MMR to reach legendary. This should never be the case. Legendary should be limited to the best players in the game, and this season’s system in that regard is far better than the old system.
I’m not talking about legendary I am not in that league and know my limits, would not want to be in legendary anyway for reasons I have mentioned on the forums in the past
Not a nice place to be
To answer the questions; I know it was a pro team because they displayed there team.
As to why I keep coming back, I love a challenge and I love to compete. Yes, I’m also going ranked because I want the backpack. What I need is something resembling a fair chance though.
To compete is fun, to re-enannact Massada multiple times a night gets old fast.
Grab a 5 man team and compete. This suggestion goes out to all those people who are struggling in “MMR HELL!!!!!!”
would love too have tried very hard joined pvp guild asked in map chat no joy
I wish it was that easy
You need to stop worrying about the system….and start to think about how to get out of the mess by carrying.
Im currently starting on my 3rd journey to legendary on my 3rd account (2nd that is non hot). It didnt even take me long despite some losing streaks here and there since i found ways to carry.
Im not saying MMR hell isnt there…..but there are ways to get out. Ppl at amber -> diamond arent that good in most cases so steamrolling them with (condi) burst builds is a very valid option and can turn games that seem unwinnable around. U just need to think outside the box and play super offensive builds.
I can literally grab a f2p account. Play a zerker amu + wells pre hot necro build and go without losses to sapphire since ppl will just stand, try to ress or stomp on top of wells. U can literally kill entire teams like that in the first 3 divisions.
another elitist there’s a change – you are definitely pro and all is straightforward
have done what u suggested already – I wish it was that simple
well good for u I fully admit I am not elite, never will be and definitely will not be good enough to carry my whole team endlessly through the number of matches needed to vaguely improve my MMR – so I will never have the chance as solo q’er to play alongside those with similar skill, no one will want to team with some with my historic MMR so I am screwed. As stated season over as I have suggested If this is the only way out then I have no escape no matter how much I have improved -
What does your MMR have to do with finding players to team up? If you convince them with duels and some queuing they should see what you can or can’t.
For example we were looking for a new engi, now queuing, duelling and talking with him. So we see where he lacks knowledge and maybe he can find stuff that we are doing wrong. Not sure if MMR of single team members actually impact anything in the matchmaking. If it does, most likely only the MMR from the highest player matters.
have tried very hard to find players to team up with but no joy
i suggest you watch this podcast where they are talking about the back piece https://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/v/47766941 starting at 10:38. so continue completing the achievements and you will eventually get the back piece. hope this helps
yes, OP go watch this starts 10:00 onwards…
thank you so much for the link that really helps me a lot – so I will be able to get the wings next year or year after – makes me feel slightly better now
so to the OP don’t give up you will be able to get it at some point don’t give up
I knew I had heard somewhere about being able to get it after the year is done
another elitist there’s a change – you are definitely pro and all is straightforward
have done what u suggested already – I wish it was that simple
well good for u I fully admit I am not elite, never will be and definitely will not be good enough to carry my whole team endlessly through the number of matches needed to vaguely improve my MMR – so I will never have the chance as solo q’er to play alongside those with similar skill, no one will want to team with some with my historic MMR so I am screwed. As stated season over as I have suggested If this is the only way out then I have no escape no matter how much I have improved -
Yes its hard….hard to drop wells on the floor. You dont have to be remotely good to do that -_-
I actually handed u a way.
Its not rare that im doing 1 mil + dmg on my f2p account by just dropping wells pretty much. And since all lower div players just stand on top of wells…..or stomp 1 teammate with 3 or 4 right on top of wells u can literally kill all fo them as if they where some pve mobs.
Nothing hard / pro about that.
ok I’m not in the low division and the opponents not as bad as that but will give it a try and report back once I have dropped a few wells !!
(edited by godsie.2864)
that’s assuming he did not play in season 1
anet have said there will be other ways to acquire the legendary backpiece
you will be able to get it
Emerald. I have 7 division crossings left in total. I’ve put in full time work hours and more to struggle to Sapphire. There is simply no way I can cross 7 divisions in the time remaining. Not the way matchmaking is. So, there is no point in playing and I’ve wasted a lot of effort and stress.
what is the exact reaper build you used ?
pvp amulet, traits, skills, sigils etc.
how do you play ?
do you try to discuss opening splits with your 4 other solo queue team mates during the 2 minutes ?
i played very casually (in terms of playing hours) in both season 1 and season 2, i’m in ruby for both seasons.
no, i did not put in “full time work hours” like 8 hours or more per day, maybe just 1 or 2 or 3 ranked games per day.
If only it was that easy
you are in ruby ?
where did u hear that achievements don’t carry over to next year
even if that is the case I did read on reddit from others that anet would still have plans to allow players to acquire the wings at late stage
You need to stop worrying about the system….and start to think about how to get out of the mess by carrying.
Im currently starting on my 3rd journey to legendary on my 3rd account (2nd that is non hot). It didnt even take me long despite some losing streaks here and there since i found ways to carry.
Im not saying MMR hell isnt there…..but there are ways to get out. Ppl at amber -> diamond arent that good in most cases so steamrolling them with (condi) burst builds is a very valid option and can turn games that seem unwinnable around. U just need to think outside the box and play super offensive builds.
I can literally grab a f2p account. Play a zerker amu + wells pre hot necro build and go without losses to sapphire since ppl will just stand, try to ress or stomp on top of wells. U can literally kill entire teams like that in the first 3 divisions.
another elitist there’s a change – you are definitely pro and all is straightforward
have done what u suggested already – I wish it was that simple
well good for u I fully admit I am not elite, never will be and definitely will not be good enough to carry my whole team endlessly through the number of matches needed to vaguely improve my MMR – so I will never have the chance as solo q’er to play alongside those with similar skill, no one will want to team with some with my historic MMR so I am screwed. As stated season over as I have suggested If this is the only way out then I have no escape no matter how much I have improved -
maybe not – but there must be something better to prevent blow outs even at this stage are happening to me most matches
As far as I’m concerned, people have an overblown opinion of how good they are and they are also convinced that they should get to legendary as long as they keep queuing ranked. I don’t think that everyone should get legendary, and I think that what people consider “MMR hell” is actually the right bracket for them if they can’t get out of it. The fact that exceptional players can get to legendary without many problems on an alt account, which would have no MMR to “help” them, convinces me even more of this.
Or the problem that alt accounts have an easier time progressing than accounts that have a low mmr from a previous season……
No one is saying that legendary players can’t make legendary, MMR hell is mid tier ruby players being stuck at ruby t0 with teammates that threecap home, rush enemy lord etc…
if you have low MMR from previous ranked games played, why do you think you deserve to progress?…
well possibly by showing improvement now – or is that not allowed !!
obviously all these threads demonstrate is the true spirit of pvp!
MMR hell is a bad players excuse for being bad. Their MMR is totally low through no fault of their own, and they’re suddenly way better now than they were when it tanked. They were just testing builds or playing with friends!
Forget that people like myself have streamed F2P warriors to legendary, that doesn’t prove anythng because we didn’t lose 50 games in a row first!
I never said its was not my fault – I have always admitted I got into MMRHell from mistakes I made in the past – plz read first!
not way better but I feel I am improving but obviously not enough to show any progression in this TEAM game – and obviously I have to improve to such a level kitten I can carry a team to show that – well I am not there yet and with my MMR as it is I never will – but I will just keep trying and do the best I can!
If you are representative of the legendary division (and I suspect you are) – I would not touch it with a bargepole and thank my lucky stars never to end up there
You can tell who the casuals are and who the good players are on this thread.
MMR Hell is an excuse for being terrible at this game. Fix your gameplay folks stop double dodging.
50% win rate does not equal good matchmaking.
happy to fix MY gameplay – cant do much about the others in my team !!
for the umpteenth time! – to the usual elitists!!
Its a fact not an excuse
(edited by godsie.2864)
not sure what the point of this thread !
Im quite sure that the vast majority off players who shout about MMR hell use it as an excuse. Far easier to blame the system over your own sucky gameplay.
Yup. I’ve said the same thing in other threads.
If it was just my gameplay that would be fine but if u check again it’s a team game
Believe me it exists I’ve said the same in the other threads l
competition is fun for those that like a challenge….
This system is not designed to create challenges. There’s no challenge in winning a blowout.
question was not meant for you, but thats good it sounds like you have a competitive spirit. Also i highly doubt all of your games are like that. Mine were like that until i got to upper sapphire and they started getting a little bit closer… but if im constantly able to 2v1 indefinitely the other team should have no chance. I expect my scores will become better in high ruby and diamond.
You might be surprised.
I think it’s clear that the reason people end up going against players of a vastly higher skill, is because there aren’t enough people playing PvP at that time, to be put against you that are around your skill level.
No. The reason why people keep going up against opponents of vastly different skill is because the system doesn’t even try to match them skillwise. It’s not part of matchmaking consideration at all.
The last screen shot looks pretty normal to me. The blue party had 2 emerald ranks and 3 sapphires, your party had 4 sapphires and 1 emerald.
I can’t see what profession the 2 individuals were that were disconnected from the match were, but their team was well balanced. They had a couple power players, a good condi player and likely an auramancer. They likely outperformed your party.
Yeah, that’s the point. It can be clearly seen that skillwise those two teams were very, very far from each other. No reasonable matchmaking system should ever allow them to meet.
Sometimes that happens. It shouldn’t happen every time, not even most of the time, but it can and will happen once in a while.
It’s not “sometimes”. It’s “most of the time”. Balanced matches are a rarity nowadays, you either get crushed or win by a landslide.
agree +1 most of my matches are complete blow outs and mis matches
Is it based purely on MMR?
Did I skip right over it by getting a 100% winrate in Ruby playing core ranger?
If you have a high MMR you probably were paired with all the best players all the way hence why you literally flew over that division.
If you want to experience “MMR hell”, crippled your MMR and then retry Ruby. Tell me how it is in soloq after that…
Yeah but we worked for our MMR in season 1 just like everyone else did. Doesn’t that make sense? Also, if we are paired with the best players, we are also paired against the best players too because hopefully thats how MMR works lol. So your argument is invalid.
not necessarily part of the problem is teams with good MMR are paired with teams with poor MMR hence the blow outs
It made the ladder grindable and caused a lot of frustration with good players, because they usually were put in teams with 4 bad players… more often than not against a team of 5 average players or 2+ playerteams.
It basically forced a 50% win-loss-ratio on everybody, and if you dared to get better…. you got punished with worse and worse teammates, until you got the bottomfeeders.
So, matching teams internally according to mmr was the logic solution. Matching teams against each other solely based on pip-range was not. Anet went overboard with that one… as they tend to always do. It doesnt matter which part of the game, anet is always “overfixing” stuff.
I ca understand that and agree with this
but then why do these same good players who did not then want to play with the bad players now make alts and come to lower divisions and seem to want to play with these same bad players the ones they wanted to get away from in S1 !
makes no sense – or “cake and eat it”
Whatever they do you can count on one thing there will be plenty of complaining in season 3. Just like seasons 1 and 2. Everyone thinks they are a diamond or better player. I dont care what system they come up with you are always going to be limited by what is in the queue at a given time. If they go back to some kind of MMR averaging where players like me that have thousands of matches get matched with complete noobs all the time again I know I wont be staying around thats for sure.
I swear, I might as well make this a cut and paste:
I’m not diamond quality I don’t deserve diamond. I do know that the following are mistakes:
Rushing enemy lord at 0 points. Running 2+ thieves and no eles or druid. Trying to take far 1v1 from a healing ele. Splitting 1home 2 beast 1mid 1 who goes to the middle of the map and demands 1v1s. Playing a build you just made up for the first time on a class you’ve never played and doing it in ranked. Afking after losing a skirmish. Suiciding 1v3 or 1v4. Running far after you’ve died to the same plaer 1v1 there 3 times.All I want is to get to a point where my team doesn’t do these things. That’s all, that’s all most people complaining want.
yes agree +1 with this I would just like to see the chance that hard work and effort on my part might be recognized with maybe some sort of progression IF I improve and that I can get to wherever my skill can – I will never be a legendary don’t want to be either judging by all the elitism in show in the forums
As far as I’m concerned, people have an overblown opinion of how good they are and they are also convinced that they should get to legendary as long as they keep queuing ranked. I don’t think that everyone should get legendary, and I think that what people consider “MMR hell” is actually the right bracket for them if they can’t get out of it. The fact that exceptional players can get to legendary without many problems on an alt account, which would have no MMR to “help” them, convinces me even more of this.
Or the problem that alt accounts have an easier time progressing than accounts that have a low mmr from a previous season……
No one is saying that legendary players can’t make legendary, MMR hell is mid tier ruby players being stuck at ruby t0 with teammates that threecap home, rush enemy lord etc…
I’m saying I can win with teammates like those.
Grats, you’re probably better than a mid tier ruby….
Right. So the point is that those who cannot do the same should be exactly in the spot they are. Not because they have “bad teammates” who hold them back. But because their own play does not merit reaching a higher division.
No the point is, that they should be able to reach a point where they are the ones that make mistakes that matter some of the time and play well and it matters some of the time, not be at the point where their teammates make those mistakes. I’m not saying they should make diamond for kittens sake. I’m just saying the system shouldn’t be locking players that rush enemy lord or triple cap home with players who know that’s a bad idea. That’s all…..
That may be your point, but it certainly is not mine. I’m sort of trying to decipher your first sentence. Anyway, I would have to disagree. Mainly because this matchmaking seems to want to put you on the same team as players in the same division/MMR as you. While MMR is not necessarily an indicator of skill, it at least will actually tend to put similarly skilled players together. So while you might know that triple capping home is generally a bad idea, you might still be at a similar skill level to those players. I mean, knowing where to go at all times is important but there are plenty of other things you could still be bad enough at which would put you on their level
MMR does not always put players of similar skill together it is for a lot of people historical and not always a reflection of their CURRENT skill , it does not take into account changes and improvements to a players kill unless their teams can win that is its sole indicator
there is no mmr hell. the only “hell” some players are in is their own, thinking they are better than they actually are.
i got to sapphire by playing fresh air ele and people were never focusing me in teamfights, letting me freecast my air overloads that wiped the entire team.
later i started playing rev and necro, switched to cleric ele in order to complete the stupid ascension achievements, playing 3 matches per day for those dailies.
so what did i do? i checked what classes my team has, what classes the enemy team has and based on that i rerolled to either rev necro or ele. i told people where to go, how to rotate, when to go boss. some people flamed me for it, some were happy – and we won.
i did 95% of my matches soloq and the rest duoq, maintaining a winrate of 80% or higher from amber to legendary. i have 8500 pvp matches and although i’m a bit rusty at the moment i still know how to rotate.
that’s something that many players i encountered don’t know. they don’t adapt their playstyle, don’t switch classes most of the time, don’t know how to rotate. 99% of the time splits were 4 mid 1 close, no far pushes, nothing.
they chase 3v1, fight 1v1 on capped enemy nodes vs a scrapper or ele, do beast when your team needs you, run lord when it’s already 480… don’t watch map, don’t prepare for respawn, don’t scout, don’t watch people disengage fights, don’t know their roles. and then they cry because they are stuck.guess what, if you’re stuck in ruby/diamond then it’s in 99% of the cases your own fault. yes your teammates are very bad sometimes, but so are your opponents. and if you have 5 terrible players as opponents make sure that your team only cosists of 4.
Right for the umpteenth time on these forums
As I have said before I don’t believe I am better that where I am currently
and I don’t want to be – all I want is the chance to see the effort and hard work I put into improving myself show with some sort of progress
If what you say is true then there is no progression wthin divisions because we all are where we should be but no chance of finding where we could be -which is fine no incentive to improve and no point bothering to get better
that should not be the case I believe!
I made mistakes at the start and I was a bad player – I know this and I lost a lot of matches I deserved too – my MMR went down I get teamed with worse and worse players from my faults – yes – the problem is now I don’t make those mistakes and am better but I cannot translate that into wins because I am but one of five people in a team si I keep losing despite my improvement and get lower and lower wth worse team mates
that’s where the system fails MMR is personal but wins are just judged on the team which you have limited control over.
I’m getting the impression that If I want to get into MMR Hell I need to lose a lot? I need to do it at the beginning of diamond or ruby (I just got into diamond so this might be a good spot)? As I am not going to intentionally lose I can try to win games on classes I’m bad at and builds that aren’t viable. I’ll lose, but I’ll be trying to win so I’d make myself feel better about it haha (sorry team). Yet It is my understanding that people think a proleague player, such as myself, that got into MMR Hell would actually be able to just get back out. Therefore, any attempt for me to try and get into and back out is pointless because I probably could? I’m not really trying to prove it doesn’t exist it is just my experience that it doesn’t. I’m genuinely curious to experience MMR Hell in this game but It seems like I won’t be able to? Which by extension would mean that for me, MMR Hell actually doesn’t exist… but it does for those who are actually not good enough to get out of the pit once they get into it?
off course it does not exist for you but I am tired of explaining why !!
the post above mine says it all!
you are too pro – and count yourself lucky you will never experience it!!
classic elitism at its best! don’t try and get to MMRHell plz just stay where you belong in legendary division with the other pro’s and leave it at that!
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So what’s the solution?
Remove MMR.
If they only did matchmaking based on pips it would mean two things:
1. The beginning of the season would be even worse than today
2. The mid and ending of the season would be much better than today.I don’t think the start would be worst. Because of the random factor, people will low skill can get lucky once in a while and get teamed with 3-4 really good players. Where now the low skill people are pretty much doomed to loss every match.
That’s how it should be…If you want good players in your team then get good yourself, you lose matches against more skilled opponents and that’s how it should be, you should not be reward just for playing ; if you play thousand of matches and still act the same way , why would you expect any better results? ….I wish people would post the API code to verify their “skill level”.
You just don’t get it! it is very hard to continue improving yourself when you are 1 out if the 5 team – plz stop with the get good atitude I have worked and continue to work my socks off trying to improve but I cannot carry whole teams every match – and because with the losses you end up with worse and worse players it bcomes even harder to translate your personal improvement into wins because you are 1 out of 5!!
I don’t want reward for just playing – but for improvement maybe yes – !
The last screen shot looks pretty normal to me. The blue party had 2 emerald ranks and 3 sapphires, your party had 4 sapphires and 1 emerald.
I can’t see what profession the 2 individuals were that were disconnected from the match were, but their team was well balanced. They had a couple power players, a good condi player and likely an auramancer. They likely outperformed your party.
I know losing is hell, even by a big gap in score like that. But … it’s happened to me a couple of times. I’ve been so “outmatched” by the other team that I’ve suffered a score under 100 to their 500+ score.
Sometimes that happens. It shouldn’t happen every time, not even most of the time, but it can and will happen once in a while.
Most of mine are blow outs now as MMR tanked – used to it though by now – does not affect me anymore – marked sense of apathy has overtaken me now and I consider it the norm!
Well, the issue is that once someone hits legendary, there isn’t a lot of fun in playing that anymore. It’s not like anyone looks at the leaderboard and says “oh wow, those are the best players in the game” The best players are in the pro league.
So, that returns to the key point. After legendary, why not start over on another account?
This +1 – interesting that anet made the changes for S2 matchmaking to allow the expert pro players to get to their right place and compete properly against each other quicker (that was presumably what they wanted!)- but instead they now prefer alts and demolishing the lower players, the exact opposite now – role reversal – and in fact for whatever reason it does not seem they want to stay in their right place! instead make it miserable for the lower tier players just for ? kicks or whatever.
I would like it to be fun – and I keep trying but eventually the endless losing streaks make this impossible without any hope of escape.
been stuck for 2 weeks keep getting close one or two pips then ruined I cant seem to string more than 2-3 wins together and that demoralizes you day in day out
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mine is a lot worse too
it does not matter the reasons why you initially lose more games I was experimenting a the start the hell comes from the fact that once in it you cant get easily out with improving or correcting this – maybe players who are so good they can carry their team can but for those who cant they are stuck in MMRHell
I have done all I can improving and will carry on trying but don’t expect to escape
believe me it exists – have improved myself so much since when I started doing ranked but because of my mistakes early on I am stuck – I am continuing to improve myself but cant carry a team yet so still stuck in MMRHell!
(edited by godsie.2864)
Hmm, this is really great stuff.
Maybe there needs to be a saving grace match that boosts your MMR if you land in a massive losing streak, that will reset your MMR to prior to the maximum you had at the time if you win, or at least give you half to step up your game.
That might help those folks in ‘Hell’, which is actually a smaller % on that report than I thought there would be. Would those numbers be accurate? Who knows, but it could at least give credit to the existence of a hell. (Heaven can also be a problem too…)
nice idea or some sort of MMR resets during the season to help those who got off to a bad start but have worked to improve
This is a really great analysis. I appreciate all the work you put into this. We recognize the problems that the season 2 matchmaking is causing and are looking into solutions that will provide a good experience and satisfy our goals for the league system.
But we all know this system will fail miserably like its previous ones and eventually something else will take its place.
MMR means nothing now. Every match above Legendary is entirely dependent upon the time of the day.
agree time of day for me now far more indicative of match outcome than any of my skill
So what’s the solution?
Remove MMR.
If they only did matchmaking based on pips it would mean two things:
1. The beginning of the season would be even worse than today
2. The mid and ending of the season would be much better than today.I don’t think the start would be worst. Because of the random factor, people will low skill can get lucky once in a while and get teamed with 3-4 really good players. Where now the low skill people are pretty much doomed to loss every match.
agree +1 this
If the season isn’t designed to be fun, I see serious problems. The vast majority of us aren’t paid to play. So the motivation has to be to have fun.
I take issue with "matches people with teammates of their (sic) (yes I know it should be spelled “there” ) own skill." Losses strongly reinforce losing and winning strongly reinforces winning.
It’s no measure of skill to put me in a match against a stacked deck that I’m intended to lose. Then, I get punished for losing by having the deck stacked even more against me. I’m told that if only I get good , everything will be OK and I too will get good teams.
-edit- Yes of course I’m going to keep queue’ing. The achievements are so steep that I need every match to have any hope of winning the wings. I understand that it’s this year only.. so if I want the reward I have to keep taking it on the chin for hours on end.
competition is fun for those that like a challenge….
if you are not having fun as you say why continue to beat yourself over the head?
because I don’t give up – not my nature
and a challenge I would love to have – this is not a challenge its a blow out 500-55 first and 500-5 the second that’s neither a challenge or competitivequestion was not meant for you, but thats good it sounds like you have a competitive spirit. Also i highly doubt all of your games are like that. Mine were like that until i got to upper sapphire and they started getting a little bit closer… but if im constantly able to 2v1 indefinitely the other team should have no chance. I expect my scores will become better in high ruby and diamond.
4th tier of sapphire 2 weeks now and unfortunately most are blow outs at least they were just the extreme – my teams rarely get over 400 and most are below 300
(edited by godsie.2864)
If the season isn’t designed to be fun, I see serious problems. The vast majority of us aren’t paid to play. So the motivation has to be to have fun.
I take issue with "matches people with teammates of their (sic) (yes I know it should be spelled “there” ) own skill." Losses strongly reinforce losing and winning strongly reinforces winning.
It’s no measure of skill to put me in a match against a stacked deck that I’m intended to lose. Then, I get punished for losing by having the deck stacked even more against me. I’m told that if only I get good , everything will be OK and I too will get good teams.
-edit- Yes of course I’m going to keep queue’ing. The achievements are so steep that I need every match to have any hope of winning the wings. I understand that it’s this year only.. so if I want the reward I have to keep taking it on the chin for hours on end.
competition is fun for those that like a challenge….
if you are not having fun as you say why continue to beat yourself over the head?
because I don’t give up – not my nature
and a challenge I would love to have – this is not a challenge its a blow out 500-55 first and 500-5 the second that’s neither a challenge or competitive
If the season isn’t designed to be fun, I see serious problems. The vast majority of us aren’t paid to play. So the motivation has to be to have fun.
I take issue with "matches people with teammates of their (sic) (yes I know it should be spelled “there” ) own skill." Losses strongly reinforce losing and winning strongly reinforces winning.
It’s no measure of skill to put me in a match against a stacked deck that I’m intended to lose. Then, I get punished for losing by having the deck stacked even more against me. I’m told that if only I get good , everything will be OK and I too will get good teams.
-edit- Yes of course I’m going to keep queue’ing. The achievements are so steep that I need every match to have any hope of winning the wings. I understand that it’s this year only.. so if I want the reward I have to keep taking it on the chin for hours on end.
exactly the same mate have just been farmed twice by pro team masquerading in sapphire on alts as well because they cant play in there own division probably from long queue times . I’m stuck in MMRHell like you lost count of my losing streaks long time ago I wont give up either but know its all in vain and this farming of lower level players is the normal now – at least it gives the pro’s something to do!
Stop putting Sapphire players in teams with Ruby players.
I’ll wait in the queue longer if that’s what it takes. The wait for a long queue is shorter than the time it takes to jump up and down in pips from win-loss bouncing or lose streaks.
I’m in Ruby hell now and while I can see the merits of matching Rubies in the top tier against Diamond players, I can’t understand matching against people in other divisions when they are in the middle tiers. If you wanna pit me against Diamonds when I’m in tier 6 Ruby, bring it on, but once a series of Diamonds beats me down to tier 5, please just stop that nonsense… I really can’t believe the Diamond matchups continued after I got beat down to tier 4 from tier 6. :/
Right now I see tons of Diamond players standing around and tons of Sapphire players standing around, and a few Ruby. Yet I keep getting either matched vs Diamond or teamed with Sapphire.
Please match Sapphires and Diamonds with their own division. Stop giving Ruby players so many Diamonds and Sapphires in the middle tiers of Ruby.
Also stop this kind of matching behavior for all divisions, while you’re at it.. :/
Bad Matchmaking = Reduced Player Base = Even Worse Matchmaking = Even Smaller Player Base etc…
Sorry to say it will only get worse this season.
this +1 and will affect season 3 and 4 as well
MMR in the pits! a long time ago – utterly screwed
Ladies and gentlemen i’m pleased too announce that I finally got to sapphire. And I got my mother kittening 5 gold. Did it on my theif
congrats !
now work hard to get to ruby too !
Tell me about it!!
exactly ! reaper is not the be all or end all
let me guess your in ruby now !
well I have been playing reaper non stop for 2 weeks and still in sapphire
team composition more importantyes godsie i’m still in ruby.
what reaper build are you running? traits amulets skills etc.yes, team compsition is important, but the ability of individual players matter too!
if the opponent team have a better team comp, but the players are not running very effective builds or have not very good mechanical skills, map awareness, etc.
our team may be just able to effectively divide them up and murder them more effectively.
the removal of many “bunker” amulets have made team kills more important.
Lol what I meant was that you have mentioned in several threads that u made ruby!
And I know individual skill is important but I have seen so many blow outs with multiple reapers
Reaper is not the difference in climbing up divisions in fact can be a liability in bad team composition
let me guess your in ruby now !
well I have been playing reaper non stop for 2 weeks and still in sapphire
team composition more important
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Honestly take a break. Whenever I’ve lost two or three games straight I’ve taken at least a one hour break and came back. And everytime it’s been a win coming back. It allows you to not get the same teammates and gives you a second to relax so you don’t go on tilt which only makes it worse.
fed up with ppl suggesting this
I have always long breaks after 2-3 losses come back and still losses after that losing streak – doe snot always work so stop posting it I have never come back after taking a break and had any wins – in fact my wins come the more I play at timesThe main reason people suggest it is to help you relax but also that particular timeslot may put you in an unfavorable team composition. So sometimes it helps to try at a later time bracket.
I have done that too – later time brackets still no joy