Guild Wars 2

Me Kill You.9035:

I’m curious why you use Blood magic over Death/Spite?

Especially for commanding, death gives you;
-180 toughness in shroud
-Immediate & passive condi removal in shroud
-Counter CC (reaper’s protection) or extra 150+ free power
-Protection whenever you exit shroud
-Corrupter’s Fervor for huge extra toughnes/condi reduction, or Stab/heal in shroud

And Spite just gives great damage capabilities for roaming in general Imo. I guess Blood is for the group support abilities? Not without its uses but it seems like you are stuck on it a little bit, just my 2c

Blood gives him some extra siphon healing and still unholy martyr which helps boost shroud regeneration while in shroud, and it shines in groups since you get an abundance of condis to feed off of and stay in shroud for longer periods of time.

I think if you play smartly against them you’ll find they aren’t too outrageously annoying, they are prone to very heavy cc and hit like a wet noodle. Condis are also great when they run out of celestial avatar.

Aeon.6397:

reguardless,
my point is things dont need to be easier, just let the content stay difficult

Hero point getting is far from “difficult,” tedious is what I would say.

voidwarranty.6193:

Move along people nothing to see here, just catering to casuals again.

Oh kitten we got a kitten in a video game over here. He is HARDCORE!

Go play call of duty or league if you really want a game for hardcores, literally having other players rage themselves into early onset heart problems it’s that hardcore bro. While we casuals go back to our real life jobs and continue to enjoy guild wars as a fun option in our down time.

I think they are uglier than commander tags, and I think you can’t use them in wvw so that’s good.

Nausicca.6038:

Felahr.9830:

Complete rubbish. My first character/main had 213 after Map Completion and thats with maxing everything. at 250 he could have Druid almost immediately. An Elite spec, unlocked, 20 minutes into the release of the new content. thats bullkitten, thats too easy. it should be HARD. you shouldnt come out the gate at 90%. 250 HP to an elite is too easy and I hate that its to easy. Its not special anymore, it doesnt show you mastered Maguuma, multiple zones, and put 40 hero loci of work into your character. it cheapens it.

I’m playing GW2 for wvw. I could care less about being a Maguuma hero, since it doesn’t mean much to me. I want my new spec to fight other people. Not to brag about my l33t pve skills in LA and/or forums.

I’m glad Anet changed it to 250, it will be easier to level my alts now.

Great response, those l33t pvers need to have something to brag about I suppose…

I would say 8.5/10 now that I will be able to get my specs in a more reasonable amount of time, have loved playing them in pvp, only improvement I would like is a way to get hp from pvp reward tracks so I have some variety with options to get my specs…. Seeing as pvp doesn’t count for progression right now unfortunately, maybe have it give notarized scrolls or something.

As a self proclaimed pve hater, I actually am hooked on the story now, it just seems interesting and I imagine will end with some pretty awesome boss fight or something.

Boohoo pvers crying because they want other people to suffer through the grind they did. Glad they lowered the requirement to be somewhat reasonable, still a tad sharp in my eyes…. Should be separated into a trait track and a utility track so you can focus on one or the other.

One Prarie Outpost.4860:

People really complaining about grinding?
You grind for loot.
You grind for crafting materials.
You grind dungeons for tokens.
Oct. 23rd and the highly anticipated HoT release – within hours people complain about grinding.
smh

It’s not a grind when players enjoy it, in HoT you are forced to get HP by either pve map completion, or through a wvw ktrain. It’s all about perception, people perceive getting hero points as playing the game in a way they do not want to, and oftentimes repeatedly as they have multiple characters.

So yes, HoT is in fact a grind to a large number of players, to say otherwise is just plain dumb.

Chris Cleary.8017:

The Heroic Notary and Notarized Scrolls have been disabled temporarily to deal with an exploit. We’ll enable them again as soon as we fix the issue.

How about give more of them per WvW level up? And what’s with them costing badges on top of the coins, the PVE ones don’t cost gold on top of the HP.

Vegetation.6419:

I don’t understand why most of you guys feel like you deserve to get your elite spec right away? I feel rewarded for going out in the game and finally unlock those traits and I believe that making them easier to get would ruin the experience.

Yes I understand that for your alts it’s a tedious task. I understand that you may not like the other content like wvw or pvp and don’t want to have to go there in order to get you specializations. But it doesn’t mean that it should be easier to get because YOU do not like having to work your way to it.

There really are only two options to grind for the elite specs, so you really can’t play how you want to get them you either: A. Farm PVE communes on every character, or B. Ktrain in WVW on every character.

So I went a bit out of my comfort zone today and gave the PVE a good hard try, to see if it would be any easier to get my spec there than in WvW. I have to say, the story kinda got me interested into wanting to complete that- seems like it can be fun climaxing with a nice boss fight against the dragon, also the cinematic cutscenes are great. I then did some open world to attempt to get my elite, well found one hero point that I killed some wyverns and communed and it was easy enough, so I thought “eh, might not be so bad,” so I struggled navigating around, falling off the edges and dying trying to use updrafts on my glider but apparently my character is too fat and just falls right through them.

Long story short, I find the next hero point, and there is this really ugly frog that just tells me, and I quote: “you are not ready.” Not ready for what? I spent the last half hour navigating around, dying, running back to try and land on your platform, and I finally get there ankitten ot ready? So I will likely be finishing the story, but the open world is still the same old nonsense to me.

Chipofsalt.4673:

With all of the redundant posts on this forum regarding elite specializations being gated behind a heap of prerequisite hero points, I thought it would be fun to play devil’s advocate. Ultimately, I think the issue isn’t the number of points required to unlock them, but the nature of how difficult the HoT hero challenges are.

Here’s why I believe the hero point requirement should not be changed:

1) You don’t need your elite spec to play through HoT.
2) It’s an elite spec – it shouldn’t be cheap by its nature.
3) It incentivizes map completion and/or WvW participation.
4) You don’t need the entire line unlocked for it to be used (or even useful).
5) Keeping them character bound keeps it in line with non-elite specs.

Most of the complaints I’ve seen about the hero point requirements seem to come from our culture of entitlement (I should get it now – or at least sooner – because I want it now).

That all said, I do think there is a HUGE problem with the fact that it’s almost impossible (or in some cases very difficult) to solo the hero challenges in the new zones. If someone is serious about unlocking their elite specialization, they should be able to do it with or without their friends and guildies.

Because you seem to be in your own little world where other players don’t matter, here is a response for your broken argument:
1.)People may not NEED them, but they want them, they have been playing the same classes since launch, they want to play through the content in a refreshing new way.
2.)It really is not “elite” it is essentially just a new trait line, not saying you shouldn’t have to unlock them, but the current grind for them is out of control, and many people have a lot of alts.
3.)Map completion is boring to many (like myself) why should we be forced to do it to unlock something that is core to the expansion we paid for, we didn’t pay for it to do content we don’t want to, and it creates an incentive to Ktrain in WVW, instead of actually playing WvW with how slowly you get the hero points…
4.)Actually, yes, you do need the entire line to be unlocked to have a viable build in WvW, and I would argue the same for fractals/dungeons. Otherwise you are running with a sub-optimal spec. You would be better off speccing in a fully completed line that has nothing to do with your build.
5.)Non-elite specs are attainable on every character reasonably, grinding to get them on 8+ alts is just unbelievable. TO EVEN THINK THAT it is reasonable to either: repeat the map completion PVE nonsense on multiple characters or level up thousands of times in WVW is fair is just total nonsense, especially to people that abhor the pve zones.

And entitlement MY kitten This is a game, not saying they should be instantly unlocked, but maybe like a story quest, a few WVW rank ups, a reward track or two in PVP would seem fair, and it’s not like many players didn’t pay REAL MONEY THAT THEY EARNED WORKING A REAL JOB to play the elite specs, to some that is really all they wanted, they did not want to grind for months on end as a casual player. Hardcore players will have their elite specs as soon as possible after launch regardless of what the devs do, thats just how it works, why screw over casual players that make up much of the player base of GW2, that have work and lives outside of playing non-stop. It just doesn’t make any sense to me

And, personally, I am getting fed up with people having this assumption that I should have to play the new zones to get my spec, I enjoy playing PVP, I hate playing PVE, I tried to play the expansion to see if I would enjoy it, I enjoyed gliding around and seeing the new zone, that is it, the group events were boring to me, and to imagine doing them to get the specs on all my chars is nonsense.

To argue that its fine as is, is just absolute ignorance.

/rantoff.

I would say for me it is a grind because the only two ways to get HP are either 1. Pve for it, and I hate doing pve. And 2. WvW ktrain for days on end just to get one spec. Playing wvw normally would result in it taking months to get just one spec, if not a whole year.

Honestly a PVP reward track would be what I would like to see implemented, that way I can get them and still enjoy the game.

Zixum.9718:

My main feedback is just regarding the game modes.

In PvE you can earn hero points, Anet have added a way in WvW to gain hero points. Why has PvP been neglected in this respect when you have worked hard to allow people to develop their characters in PvP in most other aspects.

Are there any future plans to bring hero points to pvp? Or is there some way to get them and I’m missing something?

I like this, they act like PVPers only play PVP and never venture into other game modes, I mainly play PVP, then WvW with my guild, and occasionally do fractals or dungeons to spice things up, but being forced into the open world to unlock my specs for those game modes makes me feel like a fish out of water.

Dei Gracia.6859:

Love most aspects of the expansion, however all I do in this game is pvp and wvw, they are what I enjoy most about this game. The PvP is done great, I’m sure the skill balancing could be better, but I digress. I almost exclusively bought this expansion because I was under the impression I would be getting my elite specializations on day 1, and be able to enjoy my game. This isn’t the case, as many others have already stated better than I ever could.

I am not a big fan of playing the story or anything, while I personally feel it’s done well, it’s just not what I come onto Guild Wars 2 to do. I love the PvP aspects of this game, everything about it, countless hours of enjoyment. This expansion bothers me because it’s forcing me to do things I DO NOT want to do, I would much rather enjoy this game and some compromise be made between people in my situation and people on the other end telling me I need to enjoy the game their way. It’s a serious limitation for me, I do not like it. Please figure out a way to appease your customers.

I’m glad I’m not alone, the story just doesn’t interest me, map completion doesn’t interest me, I like the competitive environment of PVP and WVW and will occasionally step into fractals because they get progressively more challenging and have some good rewards along the line of skins….

Most of the people arguing to keep the system the way it is likely never step into WvW, and probably have very few characters, and actually did map completion, which isn’t the case for folks that just do not enjoy that content.

Arnath.2319:

No one complained when they were unlocking their character from lvl 1-80. Why should elite specs be different?

I have yet to see a single logical reason why things should be changed. All i am seeing is a mob of anger spoiled children with a mob like mentality because everything isn’t handed to them for free within the first few days of launch… over a weekend… that the devs are working overtime to keep the servers stable.

Go play the game, even the most casual of all casual players can easily unlock the full lite spec in as little as week, i’m a casual player and i have already unlocked everything, it is super mega easy, almost too easy!

You must not have read any of the posts about the issue or suggestions to fix it in this thread, like almost everyone else that thinks like you. I don’t feel like explaining them a thousandth time, but there are many reasons people are unhappy.

Also, you need badges if you want to get HP from WvW for some unknown reason, this may mean even more grinding…

I am enjoying playing new builds in pvp, sometimes I get somewhat flustered when a completely unknown build to me wrecks me, sometimes I’m laughing as poor folks are falling into my newfound skills leading to easy 1vx matches on unsuspecting players. Right now I’m playing not to win or lose, but to ease into new builds, find the classes I like and don’t like, and learn the play/counterplay.

Still having trouble with some Dragonhunters though, I think you have to be a hard range counter and be smart about staying out of traps, but as melee, your screwed if you fight them on point in the traps.

Chokolata.1870:

No, Celestial form is not fine. It is heavily gated. A healer needs to be able to heal in a pinch and not have to jump through hoops just to do its job. Furthermore, Glyphs have dual functionality that depends on celestial avatar form. There are also 3 traits that are directly dependant on the form as well.

Celestial form is worthless most of the time due to force degen.

I don’t like the forced degen, maining a necro it kinda screws with my mind when I’m playing it, but there is no denying that celestial form is pretty powerful, to say the least, even with low-no healing power builds you can pretty much stay alive for the duration with full health while being focused, which I think is awesome, and it requires smart countering.

Dashingsteel.3410:

I go into a restaurant to have a meal. Before I can get throught the door, the hostess asks me to prepurchase my meal. I’ve eaten here before and thought their stuff was amazing so I go ahead and give them some money. After I sit down at a table, a waitress comes over with a dirty plate and utensils. She says, " The plate and utensils are the ones you used the last time you were here. We recently have changed to new plates and utensils but if you want to use those to enjoy the contents of your meal you will have to sweep and mop the kitchen and wash the plate and utensils you previously used." I told the waitress that this was unreasonable and that I wanted to enjoy the contents of my meal on the new plate and utensils. She shakes her head and says, “I will never understand the sense of entitlement some of these customers have.”

This analogy is great, I have been playing the specs in PVP because I got frustrated grinding, and absolutely loving some of the new playstyle options. If only I could have those in the other game modes I play…

Ezrael.6859:

I’m sure this game is rated T for teen?

Yep, there it is at the bottom of the page.

Yet here we are, page 55 in the megathread of whiny children that spent 9 months complaining about wanting to play HoT and are now complaining about having to play HoT…
Modern gamers, I’ll never understand your sense of entitlement.

Another wonderful post from someone who did not read any of the issues presented or suggestions in the thread.

Maelstrazza.6750:

Hell, I played EQ and FFXI – I can talk grind all day.

Some may not feel this new system is a grind. Many do. Ultimately it’s up to ANet as to what sort of game they wish.

In any case, after all the volumes written – I still have yet to hear anyone discuss how having Elites upon release would destroy the game. Opinions on that are yours, truly, and we’re all allowed them, of course.. They may differ from mine. As I stated previously – I am waiting for someone to show how giving us the Elites mainly right-off would have caused so many problems that it would ruin the xpac/game.

I have a feeling it will be something along the lines of these answers:
“Bla bla bla no endgame, bla bla”
“You got to work hard to earn things in a game! This is ’Merica!”
“Well progression, dummie, don’t you love playing for hours and hours on end on all your characters to play a spec that isn’t any better than any of the prior traitlines?”
“If I can do it, you can do it!”
“It’s not really that bad if you just farm for 24 hours straight, I did it, so why can’t you?”
“It’s like leveling up, only with a suboptimal build that is essentially useless in any group content as you don’t have all the traits etc…”

aBabyInMoonBoots.9635:

Nike.2631:

hurrado.2346:

Praise the lord they are looking into a solution, thanks Colin!

Um, that’s NOT AT ALL what he just said.

Agreed. Pretty sure it was more along the lines of: ‘We are happy with the game’s reception despite this thread, we’ll talk about this (as in, future tense) with no more or less urgency than any of the other feedback we’ve gotten so far, and 3 days in is too soon to tell you anything one way or another.’

Which is, imho, not the post he should’ve made. Side-stepping issues that are clearly issues just makes people more frustrated.

That said, I do believe they will make a change. The question is, will it be enough of a change that makes us happy, and will we still be playing by the time they do?

You may be right, I jumped the gun a bit, I don’t see much of a positive reaction in game among people I play with about the HP issue, so dunno where they got that from. Hopefully they don’t discount the problem completely.

ITS GONNA BE HUUUUGE!

Praise the lord they are looking into a solution, thanks Colin!

Vayne.8563:

hurrado.2346:

Vayne.8563:

hurrado.2346:

Vayne.8563:

DaShi.1368:

Vayne.8563:

hurrado.2346:

DaShi.1368:

That’s right folks. If you don’t like the PvE, just shut up about it. This game isn’t for you.

That is what Vayne seems to think.

Maybe they should lock the specs behind doing an excessive amount of whatever content he enjoys playing the least, and see who is complaining then.

It means that you can’t just play one area of the game and expect to get the rewards at the same speed. You’re in a place now where you can get every single point just by WvWing without ever leaving WvW. That’s an improvement.

But all we here from WvW is complaint. Shrugs.

I’m okay with that.

It’s not a problem for Vayne, so it shouldn’t be a problem for others.

When a change is made to this game that I don’t like, I try to look at the overall picture, because it’s NEVER just about me. I don’t complain about what I don’t like if I can see the reason things have been done. Many changes have inconvenienced me. I see why they were done and I move on.

There are many people who already have over 200 skill points on their characters. The game needed both account and character progression. Masteries are account progression,. elite specializtaions are charater progression.

You don’t have to like it, but it’s unlikely to change, because they’re more benefit to the game by leaving it this way than changing it.

I’m not saying it’s about me. You are.

Except now the fact that there are legitimate problems it seems to be “JUST about you” many players are left in the dust and its just unacceptable and most suggestions are very reasonable. People don’t want a grind, that isn’t what this game is about and it should not be about.

You got me wrong, mate. I have MORE characters than you. 31 80s. I simply see why the decision was made. It’s NOT all about me.

So who is it about then, since the design must not have been about players like me, and if its not about players on the other end of the spectrum like you, WHO EXACTLY is this expansion catered towards. It definitely isn’t the casual playerbase of GW2, it isn’t the WvW crowd, it isn’t even about many in PVE who wanted to play the new specs through the new area.

That leaves A-net and the hardcore grinding group. If those are the people this game is about then it’s not the great game that it had been before release.

And yes it should be somewhat about me, seeing as I paid money for it.

You’re simplifying the situation. Let’s say you LOVE loud music and live in an aparttment building. Is it reasonable to let you play loud music, if everyone else gets inconvenience? What about if only 70% of the people were inconvenienced?

That’s the issue here. Most people don’t even know about traits or specs. Most people log in, kill some stuff and log off. That’s most people. Most players don’t follow a meta. Most players probably don’t know the 4 down skill rezzes you.

So most players are less likely to be inconvenienced by this anyway. The people in your group are WvWers who don’t like anything but WvW. This isn’t a huge group of people. We’ve been told by the devs it’s a small group. We know that.

Now people SAY they don’t like grind, but people also say they want stuff to work for. Which group does Anet support. What about people who say they don’t like grind and leave the game because they’re nothing to do? Plenty of those.

There’s far more going on here than you and me.

So its fine if you inconvenience my play style, when I have offered suggestions in other posts on how to fix the problem of the hero point grind for people that don’t want to do the PVE?

It’s like your arguing against yourself and proving yourself wrong every time you try to debate with someone.

The thing is, we want to play elite specs, no we don’t need them on a silver platter, but we need to enjoy getting them, its a game after all. And seeing as both of the options a devoid of enjoyment for many players and must be repeated multiple times, this inconveniences a larger number of players than you and the foolish nay sayers can comprehend.

Razor.9872:

hurrado.2346:

Vayne.8563:

hurrado.2346:

Unloveableone.6082:

hurrado.2346:

Allisa Wonderland.8192:

The expansion is incredibly awesomely overwhelmingly fantastic.

What disappoints me is the number of posts on this forum, claiming exactly the opposite. These wonderful devs poured their heart and soul into this rich experience, and you’re all kittening on it because there is the slightest bit of challenge.

No one on here is asking “How do I do this?” It’s all “I can’t do this.”

Put your fingers to use learning how to rise to the challenge, instead of demonstrating your stereotypical Internet rage.

You might just find not only this game, but life, more enjoyable.

It’s too easy to follow the herd. There’s no value in being that kind of person.

Did you by any chance read that forum topic with somewhere near 2k responses? Players know how to do it, and that is what is disappointing them: you have to grind, period.

People want to play their elite specs, not grind for days/weeks/months on end on specs they have played for the last three years to unlock them.

Then play the kitten game. I’m already fully Berserkered out after two days of game time. It’s not hard if you’re not lazy. Stop whining and go play a single player game then.

I have played the game, been EOTM farming, 20 hours and only got 75 hero points, and guess what, it was a grind, I tried, and I mean tried to do the new PVE zone but after already hating PVE and then falling off the edge, and not knowing where anything is I rage left that zone.

Yes you have to learn the zone. You have to learn where to go. You gave up too fast. No one’s fault but yours.

Everyone is so used to following a star in other games to get a place to talk to an NPC to get a wall of text to follow an arrow to another star, they forgot how to explore, how to think, how to solve puzzles.

The new zone isn’t that hard to figure out and it doesnt’ take that long to figure out, but if you give up at the first sign of trouble, there’s not much I can tell you.

It’s much more fun to actually learn the zone.

You don’t understand, I DO NOT want to play that zone, I don’t do open world PVE, and that hasn’t changed. I do PVP, WVW and fractals almost exclusively. I hate map completion nonsense and don’t want to grind through it even once, and to do it for each character? That is nonsense.

Why don’t you just do WvW for your hero points then?

And end up with my first spec next year at this time? It’s around 200 level ups per character… now multiplied by 10 puts me at 2k wvw rank ups for full specialization unlocks. That is a problem.

Bordak.6519:

-If you make it easier, then please make that easier path optional.
-For those who enjoy doing it the way it currently is, please create an achievement for it.

I like this, someone who is content with it as is, and is still willing to offer an idea for a compromise, finally some common sense solutions from the other side of the debate.

Vayne.8563:

hurrado.2346:

Vayne.8563:

DaShi.1368:

Vayne.8563:

hurrado.2346:

DaShi.1368:

That’s right folks. If you don’t like the PvE, just shut up about it. This game isn’t for you.

That is what Vayne seems to think.

Maybe they should lock the specs behind doing an excessive amount of whatever content he enjoys playing the least, and see who is complaining then.

It means that you can’t just play one area of the game and expect to get the rewards at the same speed. You’re in a place now where you can get every single point just by WvWing without ever leaving WvW. That’s an improvement.

But all we here from WvW is complaint. Shrugs.

I’m okay with that.

It’s not a problem for Vayne, so it shouldn’t be a problem for others.

When a change is made to this game that I don’t like, I try to look at the overall picture, because it’s NEVER just about me. I don’t complain about what I don’t like if I can see the reason things have been done. Many changes have inconvenienced me. I see why they were done and I move on.

There are many people who already have over 200 skill points on their characters. The game needed both account and character progression. Masteries are account progression,. elite specializtaions are charater progression.

You don’t have to like it, but it’s unlikely to change, because they’re more benefit to the game by leaving it this way than changing it.

I’m not saying it’s about me. You are.

Except now the fact that there are legitimate problems it seems to be “JUST about you” many players are left in the dust and its just unacceptable and most suggestions are very reasonable. People don’t want a grind, that isn’t what this game is about and it should not be about.

You got me wrong, mate. I have MORE characters than you. 31 80s. I simply see why the decision was made. It’s NOT all about me.

So who is it about then, since the design must not have been about players like me, and if its not about players on the other end of the spectrum like you, WHO EXACTLY is this expansion catered towards. It definitely isn’t the casual playerbase of GW2, it isn’t the WvW crowd, it isn’t even about many in PVE who wanted to play the new specs through the new area.

That leaves A-net and the hardcore grinding group. If those are the people this game is about then it’s not the great game that it had been before release.

And yes it should be somewhat about me, seeing as I paid money for it.

Fox.3469:

I see people with decent points at both sides but when i read someone’s comment that they hated the grind for new elite specs, but then said they did edge of the mists to grind them out, i nearly spit my drink on my keyboard. You can’t complain about grind if you are willingly seeking out edge of the mists people.

So you expect us to go to normal WvW and maybe have one spec unlocked in 6 months, when we want multiple specs, due to slower WxP gain than a flat out ktrain?

Coulter.2315:

hurrado.2346:

Vayne.8563:

DaShi.1368:

Vayne.8563:

hurrado.2346:

DaShi.1368:

That’s right folks. If you don’t like the PvE, just shut up about it. This game isn’t for you.

That is what Vayne seems to think.

Maybe they should lock the specs behind doing an excessive amount of whatever content he enjoys playing the least, and see who is complaining then.

It means that you can’t just play one area of the game and expect to get the rewards at the same speed. You’re in a place now where you can get every single point just by WvWing without ever leaving WvW. That’s an improvement.

But all we here from WvW is complaint. Shrugs.

I’m okay with that.

It’s not a problem for Vayne, so it shouldn’t be a problem for others.

When a change is made to this game that I don’t like, I try to look at the overall picture, because it’s NEVER just about me. I don’t complain about what I don’t like if I can see the reason things have been done. Many changes have inconvenienced me. I see why they were done and I move on.

There are many people who already have over 200 skill points on their characters. The game needed both account and character progression. Masteries are account progression,. elite specializtaions are charater progression.

You don’t have to like it, but it’s unlikely to change, because they’re more benefit to the game by leaving it this way than changing it.

I’m not saying it’s about me. You are.

Except now the fact that there are legitimate problems it seems to be “JUST about you” many players are left in the dust and its just unacceptable and most suggestions are very reasonable. People don’t want a grind, that isn’t what this game is about and it should not be about.

A grind is repeating a task over and over, you get hero points going to individual locations that are all unique across a varied landscape and you CANNOT repeat them – it is literally IMPOSSIBLE to attain an Elite Spec with GRIND.

I have ten characters, so it is in fact, doing the same content over and over and over and over again. Even on one character its a grind, the PVE map frustrated me so I had to settle with eotm ktraining, which is running in circles, but there is an occasional zerg fight to keep me alive, something PVE doesn’t have.

Vayne.8563:

DaShi.1368:

Vayne.8563:

hurrado.2346:

DaShi.1368:

That’s right folks. If you don’t like the PvE, just shut up about it. This game isn’t for you.

That is what Vayne seems to think.

Maybe they should lock the specs behind doing an excessive amount of whatever content he enjoys playing the least, and see who is complaining then.

It means that you can’t just play one area of the game and expect to get the rewards at the same speed. You’re in a place now where you can get every single point just by WvWing without ever leaving WvW. That’s an improvement.

But all we here from WvW is complaint. Shrugs.

I’m okay with that.

It’s not a problem for Vayne, so it shouldn’t be a problem for others.

When a change is made to this game that I don’t like, I try to look at the overall picture, because it’s NEVER just about me. I don’t complain about what I don’t like if I can see the reason things have been done. Many changes have inconvenienced me. I see why they were done and I move on.

There are many people who already have over 200 skill points on their characters. The game needed both account and character progression. Masteries are account progression,. elite specializtaions are charater progression.

You don’t have to like it, but it’s unlikely to change, because they’re more benefit to the game by leaving it this way than changing it.

I’m not saying it’s about me. You are.

Except now the fact that there are legitimate problems it seems to be “JUST about you” many players are left in the dust and its just unacceptable and most suggestions are very reasonable. People don’t want a grind, that isn’t what this game is about and it should not be about.

Sykper.6583:

hurrado.2346:

Chrono.6928:

Go play other mmo’s then come back and say this game has “grind” lol. You have no idea what grind really is.

Heck you can even play alts and get mastery points b/c its account bound. Real grind would be doing it all over again on all of them rofl.

I had played a korean MMO that was literally all kill mobs to level, then kill more, and you know what, this grind feels exactly like that if not worse.

It is real grind, we have to get the specs over and over again, in repetitive content.

Which one, pray tell, is a more enjoyable experience just straight up killing mobs than doing practically anything that creates experience in the Magumma Jungle?

I want to know, let me know what was ‘less grindy’.

Actually the Korean MMO, because I would get reasonably things that I wanted in a decent amount of time, and I played that content with my friends, at a decently casual pace.

HoT I just want to get out of the zone as soon as possible to play my spec in the game content I like playing, making it a much more painful grind.

Edit: also when new classes came out they were immediately accessible… so that kind of kept it fresh to me.

Straylight.7529:

hurrado.2346:

You must not do WvW, yes I want the lines on all my characters so that way I can have them geared and ready to go for raids. PVE only players like you wouldn’t understand, and that is evident through the fact that you all are still arguing the same nonsense points over and over again, and they have been shut down repeatedly by the people that do have a problem with the hero point grind.

There is no way in which this is not a grind.

I participate in all three game modes. If one game mode offers a more fun or convenient way to reach a certain goal than another then I simply adapt. I suggest you learn to do the same.

Good luck & have fun

You all are just absolutely blind and ignorant to the actual problem, it has been outlined across countless threads and you still can’t even understand it. Not everyone plays like you so stop acting like we should.

Vayne.8563:

hurrado.2346:

DaShi.1368:

That’s right folks. If you don’t like the PvE, just shut up about it. This game isn’t for you.

That is what Vayne seems to think.

Maybe they should lock the specs behind doing an excessive amount of whatever content he enjoys playing the least, and see who is complaining then.

It means that you can’t just play one area of the game and expect to get the rewards at the same speed. You’re in a place now where you can get every single point just by WvWing without ever leaving WvW. That’s an improvement.

But all we here from WvW is complaint. Shrugs.

I’m okay with that.

So your ok with screwing over a large number of other players because they don’t play like you so they shouldn’t be able to get the things they want in a reasonable amount of time without grinding? thanks for showing your true colors Vayne.

Coulter.2315:

DaShi.1368:

Coulter.2315:

DaShi.1368:

Coulter.2315:

DaShi.1368:

That’s right folks. If you don’t like the PvE, just shut up about it. This game isn’t for you.

That is a cheap mischaracterisation, the people complaining are saying off the bat “I will not do PvE” and they need to understand that comes with a downside. Demanding that their particular choice of ignoring PvE should some how not have any downside when just a few hours gliding around would solve their problems is just silly.

That’s a cheap mischaracterization, the people complaining are saying that they don’t want to spend days to unlock their elite specs. They feel it’s too much grind. It’s also a mischaracterization to say the they can get it with a “few hours of gliding around.” In fact, nothing in your post is accurate.

No, they literally said “I will not do PvE” on the first page. Scroll up, and as I’ve said before I have my Elite Spec with zero repetition of content after a day and a bit.

Who’s this they you speak of?

hurrado and Decado; hurrado said something along the lines of “I don not want to play that zone i will not do PvE” and Decado has said a few times he is only considering WvW as an option of play.

Now we’ve established both my points of the previous post are correct would you like to retract your post? :P

So once again, this is a PVE only expac? I hope they lock BASELINE content in the next expansion behind content you dislike. The expac is for everyone, and therefore should account for that, I paid money for it, I did not pay money for players like you to get the enjoyment because it is locked behind content that is a chore to me, in a game I shouldn’t have to do chores.

Your argument is ignorant and flawed.

Straylight.7529:

hurrado.2346:

Goatjugsoup.8637:

hurrado.2346:

MatthewMedina.5419:

We’ll take a look at the next step “Sign Cutting” being bugged out, as well as some or all of you having to jump through hoops to get the quest to update correctly. Sorry again for the inconvenience – we’ll have the quest’s designer and QA do a deeper dive on these issues.

Still silence on the larger issue at hand, when is the elite spec grind going to be addressed?

that is a non issue, its not a grind (that would be doing the same thing over and over) and its not that hard

It absolutely is a grind, I HATE world completion content, I have 10 characters that I have to unlock the elite spec on each of them, thus doing the same, boring content that takes forever over and over again. And the WvW way is just a constant, painfully slow ktrain.

If that isn’t grinding I don’t know what is.

You are right. It is a grind. But only because you make it so. “I have to unlock the elite spec on each of them”. Self-imposed behaviour at its finest. Did you also give yourself a deadline? You act like Tony Montana is gonna show up at your door with a baseball bat if you don’t have at least 10 chars with fully unlocked elite specs.

My tip: forget about your 10 alts for a while. Pick the one you want to play first and just play that character. You can worry about elite specs for your 10 other toons later. It doesn’t have to be a chore if you don’t make it one.

You must not do WvW, yes I want the lines on all my characters so that way I can have them geared and ready to go for raids. PVE only players like you wouldn’t understand, and that is evident through the fact that you all are still arguing the same nonsense points over and over again, and they have been shut down repeatedly by the people that do have a problem with the hero point grind.

There is no way in which this is not a grind.

Chrono.6928:

Go play other mmo’s then come back and say this game has “grind” lol. You have no idea what grind really is.

Heck you can even play alts and get mastery points b/c its account bound. Real grind would be doing it all over again on all of them rofl.

I had played a korean MMO that was literally all kill mobs to level, then kill more, and you know what, this grind feels exactly like that if not worse.

It is real grind, we have to get the specs over and over again, in repetitive content.

DaShi.1368:

That’s right folks. If you don’t like the PvE, just shut up about it. This game isn’t for you.

That is what Vayne seems to think.

Maybe they should lock the specs behind doing an excessive amount of whatever content he enjoys playing the least, and see who is complaining then.

DaShi.1368:

Because it’s a not a problem for Vayne, it’s not a problem for others. Haven’t heard this one many many many times before.

This seems to be the argument that most folks like Vayne seem to be using: “I’m fine with it, you all should be also.”

When in reality folks playstyles vary greatly. My brother disagrees with me and tells me I should just try out the new PVE, I did, and did not enjoy it. He just doesn’t understand why, because he finds it enjoyable. But he really has no alternative for me that I would enjoy to get the hero points, seeing as the only alternative is ktrain, which is what I’ve been doing with minimal results.

Vayne.8563:

hurrado.2346:

Unloveableone.6082:

hurrado.2346:

Allisa Wonderland.8192:

The expansion is incredibly awesomely overwhelmingly fantastic.

What disappoints me is the number of posts on this forum, claiming exactly the opposite. These wonderful devs poured their heart and soul into this rich experience, and you’re all kittening on it because there is the slightest bit of challenge.

No one on here is asking “How do I do this?” It’s all “I can’t do this.”

Put your fingers to use learning how to rise to the challenge, instead of demonstrating your stereotypical Internet rage.

You might just find not only this game, but life, more enjoyable.

It’s too easy to follow the herd. There’s no value in being that kind of person.

Did you by any chance read that forum topic with somewhere near 2k responses? Players know how to do it, and that is what is disappointing them: you have to grind, period.

People want to play their elite specs, not grind for days/weeks/months on end on specs they have played for the last three years to unlock them.

Then play the kitten game. I’m already fully Berserkered out after two days of game time. It’s not hard if you’re not lazy. Stop whining and go play a single player game then.

I have played the game, been EOTM farming, 20 hours and only got 75 hero points, and guess what, it was a grind, I tried, and I mean tried to do the new PVE zone but after already hating PVE and then falling off the edge, and not knowing where anything is I rage left that zone.

Yes you have to learn the zone. You have to learn where to go. You gave up too fast. No one’s fault but yours.

Everyone is so used to following a star in other games to get a place to talk to an NPC to get a wall of text to follow an arrow to another star, they forgot how to explore, how to think, how to solve puzzles.

The new zone isn’t that hard to figure out and it doesnt’ take that long to figure out, but if you give up at the first sign of trouble, there’s not much I can tell you.

It’s much more fun to actually learn the zone.

You don’t understand, I DO NOT want to play that zone, I don’t do open world PVE, and that hasn’t changed. I do PVP, WVW and fractals almost exclusively. I hate map completion nonsense and don’t want to grind through it even once, and to do it for each character? That is nonsense.

Goatjugsoup.8637:

hurrado.2346:

MatthewMedina.5419:

We’ll take a look at the next step “Sign Cutting” being bugged out, as well as some or all of you having to jump through hoops to get the quest to update correctly. Sorry again for the inconvenience – we’ll have the quest’s designer and QA do a deeper dive on these issues.

Still silence on the larger issue at hand, when is the elite spec grind going to be addressed?

that is a non issue, its not a grind (that would be doing the same thing over and over) and its not that hard

It absolutely is a grind, I HATE world completion content, I have 10 characters that I have to unlock the elite spec on each of them, thus doing the same, boring content that takes forever over and over again. And the WvW way is just a constant, painfully slow ktrain.

If that isn’t grinding I don’t know what is.

You really hit the nail on the head, they gotta fix it quick before they start losing players to the grind in droves. I also am not a fan of the “no mounts” mindset, but I really think that right now they need to focus on getting rid of this nonsensical grindfest that they had created.

A good turnaround would really help them out in the response they get from the many loyal players that feel betrayed right now. I may be about to throw in the towel until its fixed out of frustration with trying to grind without enjoying much of the new content at all and go play Halo 5 when it comes out in 2 days.

MatthewMedina.5419:

We’ll take a look at the next step “Sign Cutting” being bugged out, as well as some or all of you having to jump through hoops to get the quest to update correctly. Sorry again for the inconvenience – we’ll have the quest’s designer and QA do a deeper dive on these issues.

Still silence on the larger issue at hand, when is the elite spec grind going to be addressed?

Skye.4983:

And I don’t understand how people like you can press a button endlessly and get joy out of it as long as they can watch some progress bar go up.

“We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs.”

You know who said that? President of Arenanet, when talking about the design philosophy behind GW2. You know what else he said?

“GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun.”

People are mad because this expansion is everything GW2 is not supposed to be.

Here are some links for you, in case you want to look it up yourself:

http://www.guildmag.com/mike-obrien-on-monetization-of-guild-wars-2/
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_2_Design_Manifesto

Couldn’t have said it better than this, its a grind, and a painfully long one at that.

Unloveableone.6082:

hurrado.2346:

Allisa Wonderland.8192:

The expansion is incredibly awesomely overwhelmingly fantastic.

What disappoints me is the number of posts on this forum, claiming exactly the opposite. These wonderful devs poured their heart and soul into this rich experience, and you’re all kittening on it because there is the slightest bit of challenge.

No one on here is asking “How do I do this?” It’s all “I can’t do this.”

Put your fingers to use learning how to rise to the challenge, instead of demonstrating your stereotypical Internet rage.

You might just find not only this game, but life, more enjoyable.

It’s too easy to follow the herd. There’s no value in being that kind of person.

Did you by any chance read that forum topic with somewhere near 2k responses? Players know how to do it, and that is what is disappointing them: you have to grind, period.

People want to play their elite specs, not grind for days/weeks/months on end on specs they have played for the last three years to unlock them.

Then play the kitten game. I’m already fully Berserkered out after two days of game time. It’s not hard if you’re not lazy. Stop whining and go play a single player game then.

I have played the game, been EOTM farming, 20 hours and only got 75 hero points, and guess what, it was a grind, I tried, and I mean tried to do the new PVE zone but after already hating PVE and then falling off the edge, and not knowing where anything is I rage left that zone.

Allisa Wonderland.8192:

The expansion is incredibly awesomely overwhelmingly fantastic.

What disappoints me is the number of posts on this forum, claiming exactly the opposite. These wonderful devs poured their heart and soul into this rich experience, and you’re all kittening on it because there is the slightest bit of challenge.

No one on here is asking “How do I do this?” It’s all “I can’t do this.”

Put your fingers to use learning how to rise to the challenge, instead of demonstrating your stereotypical Internet rage.

You might just find not only this game, but life, more enjoyable.

It’s too easy to follow the herd. There’s no value in being that kind of person.

Did you by any chance read that forum topic with somewhere near 2k responses? Players know how to do it, and that is what is disappointing them: you have to grind, period.

People want to play their elite specs, not grind for days/weeks/months on end on specs they have played for the last three years to unlock them.

CaelestiaEmpyrea.2617:

The stated official stance from Anet is that there is no need to gather Hero Points in PvP. A PvP character can access all Elite Specializations (in fact, ALL Specializations and skill) without unlocking them in normal play, and giving them a way to use their PvP progress to bypass PvE content would be unfair to other players.

Not really, add reward tracks that allow PvPers to get the hero points. Problem solved, PvPers, despite contrary belief, often will venture into other game modes to play with friends, so they should not get shafted with not being able to unlock the HP unless they grind the PVE content, which most PvPers would not want to do.

So it really isn’t unfair to other players, they all have the specs when they cross into pvp already, and have an advantage by being able to unlock them in their own turf.

Seabreeze.8437:

DeltaZero.6310:

I honestly don’t mind the gated story mode. Collecting the hero points is fun and doing the events is fun, playing the game and getting experience is fun.
However, not being able to do that on the class you were looking forward to isn’t fun.
That is literally the only thing they need to change imo, the elite spec gate

This is pretty much my thoughts on the matter. I don’t really have a problem with the mastery system. Given that it’s an account-wide progression mechanic, I don’t mind it being a lengthy process, since you really only have to do it once. Rather, it’s the elite spec gating that really has me frustrated. I expected to be able to play all this new content with my new elite spec… instead I’m expected to play thru the majority of the new content with my base class, something I’ve been playing for 3 years now.

Also, players with multiple characters, myself included, are in for a verrrrry tedious grind if they want their alts to run elite specs as well. Ugh… I hope this gets addressed as soon as possible. It seems like this launch weekend is leaving players more worried than excited.

I agree, the mastery thing is fine (Although exp from WvW should maybe go into masteries at 80) because you only have to do it once. The elite specs are outrageously painful to unlock.

I have been grinding for nearly 20 hours in EOTM and have only received around 75 hero points… on one class, I literally have one minor trait, that’s it, this isn’t progression at all, its an endless grindfest, that must be repeated on each character.