Guild Wars 2

Knighthonor.4061:

how to unlock hero points in WvW?

By levelling up with World XP you get a chest that when you open it gives a miniscule amount of coins of the heroic or something like that, there is a vendor in EB and the borderlands that you can trade them+badges of honor for HP.

Scourge.4317:

hurrado.2346:

Scourge.4317:

hurrado.2346:

Scourge.4317:

psizone.8437:

Scourge.4317:

Do NOT cave on Elite specializations. Everyone already gets access to the new weapon skills that can be used to further unlock the rest of the traits by PLAYING THE GAME. Unlocking your elite traits is no different than how you would progress new characters in other mmos. You get skills every other level by…PLAYING THE GAME. Just like in GW2 you get traits and skills by playing the game. You only need 40 HP…less if you prepared yourself for this expansion. Are you guys new to MMO’s? And once you unlock the mysteries needed to get to the HPs on your first character the rest of your characters won’t have to unlock anything.
.

Using the weapon at that stage leaves you with an empty traitline, for level 80 content (and harder content for HoT) that just doesn’t work.

I don’t mind putting in effort, but I’d rather put that effort into playing the game for masteries, the story and exploration rather than having to go out of my way to farm hero points if I want to play (a viable) elite spec.

It just takes a bit too long, 200 hero points would be more than enough. New characters would need to put in a lot of effort, spending a fair few hours unlocking it and older characters with map completion etc would need to do a little effort to unlock it.

That’s the problem. You want it all now. How does it take to long though when the expansion has only been out for 2 days? Relax and stop trying to rush. HoT’s not going anywhere.

Look if you really want to get it done fast just go do the Mad King instance, or EoTM and just buy all of the HP’s if you are dead set on rushing yourself through everything. But trying to get Anet to get rid of character progression thats been a part of GW since 2005 is just….no.

You only need to get the unlocks on your first character. The others can just go straight to the HP’s ( the ones that don’t involve champ slaying ) without worrying about whether or not you have poison mastery or updraft ect ect.

The problem is it is not progression, it is a flat out grind. Progression was getting to level to 80 in whatever game mode you choose, whether toming up through pvp reward tracks, or smashing zergs in wvw, or PVE content…. etc. While being able to play a class that is new and is viable for the level/area you are at.

Now at level 80 unlocking the new trait line (that is not inherently better, just a new way to play) at an excessively slow pace compared to prior trait lines you are left playing WvW or PVE with an extremely sub-par spec for a VERY long time if you choose to equip that line, thus forcing players to rush through and grind, grind, grind in a Ktrain, or do new zone, and again grind. I have to grit my teeth to do anything out of pvp/wvw/fractals/dungeons/event minigames, and would rather be able to unlock the profession reasonably, in a gamemode I enjoy. Is that too hard to ask? (and no ktraining through EOTM does not count as enjoying WVW)

Remember also many players have to grind on 8+ players, so they have to suffer through content they may not enjoy many, many times. Why not allow progression through just being able to play the game as you want? Because right now doing that you may have one elite spec unlocked by next year at this time if you don’t get bored of playing as the same old spec for that long.

The underlying assumption all the folks that discount the issue have is that: “This pve zone isn’t too bad, just do the long mastery grind once, then grind through the near impossible zone to navigate, do hero challenges, and then do those again on all your characters, don’t you just love this progression? Oh and by the way, screw anyone who doesn’t do the map completion stuff, they don’t belong on guild wars anyway because what I enjoy should be what they enjoy.”

What is a very long time to you? Expansion launched 12:01A.M Friday. Its Sunday. No one is forcing you to rush anything mate. You just wait to have it all unlocked now. I feel like the BETA weekends are the reasons for this; people got to comfortable with instantly having access to the elite specs and now that they added progression to them (just like every mmo in existence) its seen as a problem. Oh and it won’t take a year to unlock one elite spec lol. Im about 70% done with my Scrapper already through playing through one zone that im not even done with yet.

I have 9 level 80s. I only need the mysteries completed on my main. After that my other 8 will have easy access to the 40 HPs. I would never tell someone they don’t belong in GW because they don’t like what i enjoy. But you do realize that other people actually do enjoy seeing their character become stronger as they play through the game unlocking masters and traits? And you guys want to get rid of it so you can have instantly access only 2 days after the expansion released.

The problem with your group of players that say “all is fine” don’t realize than not everyone wants to go to the PVE zone, I have been commanding trains in EOTM because it is more bearable to me, but the pace, even while farming is mind numbingly slow, the thing is you get pretty much no progression playing through the game mode as intended. There also aren’t other options like a pvp reward track etc… out there, so really you are forced to either A. Go to a PVE zone and grind there, or B. Go to a WvW ktrain and grind there, instead of playing for fun in order to get the new play style that you want.

Any large period of time in a game that you are forced to essentially have a poor experience in order to unlock the new content to go back to playing the content you enjoy is bad for the health of the game.

I think you absolutely misunderstand the argument, and just come in saying nonsensical things like everyone else that thinks its fine, discounting the problem that it is, in fact a grind, and not progression.

IT all boils down to you wanting it all unlocked now. Just like everyone else who shares your view in this thread. You trying to have everything unlocked 2 days after release is whats making it a grind. You aren’t suppose to have everything unlocked so quickly my man.

NO IT does not, again, someone FAILING to read, the fact of the matter is a large number of players are left out to dry, and it is a grind, I never once said “I want it right now” and everyone else has said the same thing, I think you and your groupies that discount this are incapable of reading or comprehension.

There need to be other ways to get the spec that DO NOT involve a Ktrain, or grinding a PVE map. Many players do not enjoy that.

The Ace.9105:

There is a way to gather hero points in pve and in wvw. Is there any way to get hero points from pvp?

Unfortunately at the time being, no, there is not.

Scourge.4317:

hurrado.2346:

Scourge.4317:

psizone.8437:

Scourge.4317:

Do NOT cave on Elite specializations. Everyone already gets access to the new weapon skills that can be used to further unlock the rest of the traits by PLAYING THE GAME. Unlocking your elite traits is no different than how you would progress new characters in other mmos. You get skills every other level by…PLAYING THE GAME. Just like in GW2 you get traits and skills by playing the game. You only need 40 HP…less if you prepared yourself for this expansion. Are you guys new to MMO’s? And once you unlock the mysteries needed to get to the HPs on your first character the rest of your characters won’t have to unlock anything.
.

Using the weapon at that stage leaves you with an empty traitline, for level 80 content (and harder content for HoT) that just doesn’t work.

I don’t mind putting in effort, but I’d rather put that effort into playing the game for masteries, the story and exploration rather than having to go out of my way to farm hero points if I want to play (a viable) elite spec.

It just takes a bit too long, 200 hero points would be more than enough. New characters would need to put in a lot of effort, spending a fair few hours unlocking it and older characters with map completion etc would need to do a little effort to unlock it.

That’s the problem. You want it all now. How does it take to long though when the expansion has only been out for 2 days? Relax and stop trying to rush. HoT’s not going anywhere.

Look if you really want to get it done fast just go do the Mad King instance, or EoTM and just buy all of the HP’s if you are dead set on rushing yourself through everything. But trying to get Anet to get rid of character progression thats been a part of GW since 2005 is just….no.

You only need to get the unlocks on your first character. The others can just go straight to the HP’s ( the ones that don’t involve champ slaying ) without worrying about whether or not you have poison mastery or updraft ect ect.

The problem is it is not progression, it is a flat out grind. Progression was getting to level to 80 in whatever game mode you choose, whether toming up through pvp reward tracks, or smashing zergs in wvw, or PVE content…. etc. While being able to play a class that is new and is viable for the level/area you are at.

Now at level 80 unlocking the new trait line (that is not inherently better, just a new way to play) at an excessively slow pace compared to prior trait lines you are left playing WvW or PVE with an extremely sub-par spec for a VERY long time if you choose to equip that line, thus forcing players to rush through and grind, grind, grind in a Ktrain, or do new zone, and again grind. I have to grit my teeth to do anything out of pvp/wvw/fractals/dungeons/event minigames, and would rather be able to unlock the profession reasonably, in a gamemode I enjoy. Is that too hard to ask? (and no ktraining through EOTM does not count as enjoying WVW)

Remember also many players have to grind on 8+ players, so they have to suffer through content they may not enjoy many, many times. Why not allow progression through just being able to play the game as you want? Because right now doing that you may have one elite spec unlocked by next year at this time if you don’t get bored of playing as the same old spec for that long.

The underlying assumption all the folks that discount the issue have is that: “This pve zone isn’t too bad, just do the long mastery grind once, then grind through the near impossible zone to navigate, do hero challenges, and then do those again on all your characters, don’t you just love this progression? Oh and by the way, screw anyone who doesn’t do the map completion stuff, they don’t belong on guild wars anyway because what I enjoy should be what they enjoy.”

What is a very long time to you? Expansion launched 12:01A.M Friday. Its Sunday. No one is forcing you to rush anything mate. You just wait to have it all unlocked now. I feel like the BETA weekends are the reasons for this; people got to comfortable with instantly having access to the elite specs and now that they added progression to them (just like every mmo in existence) its seen as a problem. Oh and it won’t take a year to unlock one elite spec lol. Im about 70% done with my Scrapper already through playing through one zone that im not even done with yet.

I have 9 level 80s. I only need the mysteries completed on my main. After that my other 8 will have easy access to the 40 HPs. I would never tell someone they don’t belong in GW because they don’t like what i enjoy. But you do realize that other people actually do enjoy seeing their character become stronger as they play through the game unlocking masters and traits? And you guys want to get rid of it so you can have instantly access only 2 days after the expansion released.

The problem with your group of players that say “all is fine” don’t realize than not everyone wants to go to the PVE zone, I have been commanding trains in EOTM because it is more bearable to me, but the pace, even while farming is mind numbingly slow, the thing is you get pretty much no progression playing through the game mode as intended. There also aren’t other options like a pvp reward track etc… out there, so really you are forced to either A. Go to a PVE zone and grind there, or B. Go to a WvW ktrain and grind there, instead of playing for fun in order to get the new play style that you want.

Any large period of time in a game that you are forced to essentially have a poor experience in order to unlock the new content to go back to playing the content you enjoy is bad for the health of the game.

I think you absolutely misunderstand the argument, and just come in saying nonsensical things like everyone else that thinks its fine, discounting the problem that it is, in fact a grind, and not progression.

Turamarth.3248:

hurrado.2346:

Do you know if the tokens you get from the box are account bound? I haven’t checked, maybe before purchasing the scrolls send the tokens over to the other character?

Tokens are unfortunately also soulbound.

Dang, well was planning on getting one spec then sending over the tokens to alts when I can be done with the ktrain nonsense. this new system is mind bogglingly poorly designed in my opinion.

Do you know if the tokens you get from the box are account bound? I haven’t checked, maybe before purchasing the scrolls send the tokens over to the other character?

So in WVW to unlock the elite spec players essentially have to spend more time grinding constantly in order to get enough hero points to get just one elite spec. I know in PVE the main grind seems to be the mastery gate, then world completion nonsense, but seeing as many PVErs have already unlocked their elites through the new zone it seems that WvW and other game modes are getting the shaft. (I will just highlight my thoughts on how the WvW spec gaining could be fixed-not touching on any other game mode.)

Make it so that upon each WVW rank up the chests will grant 10 hero points, leaving WVWers with 40 WvW levels to reach the elite spec per character.
-In map completion they have to do 40 of the challenges, some of which are just communes, each probably taking around the average amount of time to get 1 WvW rank, especially with world exp gain nerfed a bit. It would be reasonable to say that there should be some sense of equality behind each game mode you play to get the elite specs.
-This can help alleviate the fact that folks are being forced into ktrains essentially to unlock their elite specs… 40 WvW levels would be reasonably attainable through just normal WvW play more so than 100+.
-Also get rid of the badge of honor cost on top of the hero coins, this really causes the players that don’t do much WvW, but see it as a more enjoyable alternative than the map completion, to be unfairly gated, and for folks who spend badges often on siege etc… and then need to get multiple classes to the elite spec they will be at a massive net loss., 2k per spec is quite a large amount, and is really unnecessary, we work hard enough to get the coins.

Scourge.4317:

psizone.8437:

Scourge.4317:

Do NOT cave on Elite specializations. Everyone already gets access to the new weapon skills that can be used to further unlock the rest of the traits by PLAYING THE GAME. Unlocking your elite traits is no different than how you would progress new characters in other mmos. You get skills every other level by…PLAYING THE GAME. Just like in GW2 you get traits and skills by playing the game. You only need 40 HP…less if you prepared yourself for this expansion. Are you guys new to MMO’s? And once you unlock the mysteries needed to get to the HPs on your first character the rest of your characters won’t have to unlock anything.
.

Using the weapon at that stage leaves you with an empty traitline, for level 80 content (and harder content for HoT) that just doesn’t work.

I don’t mind putting in effort, but I’d rather put that effort into playing the game for masteries, the story and exploration rather than having to go out of my way to farm hero points if I want to play (a viable) elite spec.

It just takes a bit too long, 200 hero points would be more than enough. New characters would need to put in a lot of effort, spending a fair few hours unlocking it and older characters with map completion etc would need to do a little effort to unlock it.

That’s the problem. You want it all now. How does it take to long though when the expansion has only been out for 2 days? Relax and stop trying to rush. HoT’s not going anywhere.

Look if you really want to get it done fast just go do the Mad King instance, or EoTM and just buy all of the HP’s if you are dead set on rushing yourself through everything. But trying to get Anet to get rid of character progression thats been a part of GW since 2005 is just….no.

You only need to get the unlocks on your first character. The others can just go straight to the HP’s ( the ones that don’t involve champ slaying ) without worrying about whether or not you have poison mastery or updraft ect ect.

The problem is it is not progression, it is a flat out grind. Progression was getting to level to 80 in whatever game mode you choose, whether toming up through pvp reward tracks, or smashing zergs in wvw, or PVE content…. etc. While being able to play a class that is new and is viable for the level/area you are at.

Now at level 80 unlocking the new trait line (that is not inherently better, just a new way to play) at an excessively slow pace compared to prior trait lines you are left playing WvW or PVE with an extremely sub-par spec for a VERY long time if you choose to equip that line, thus forcing players to rush through and grind, grind, grind in a Ktrain, or do new zone, and again grind. I have to grit my teeth to do anything out of pvp/wvw/fractals/dungeons/event minigames, and would rather be able to unlock the profession reasonably, in a gamemode I enjoy. Is that too hard to ask? (and no ktraining through EOTM does not count as enjoying WVW)

Remember also many players have to grind on 8+ players, so they have to suffer through content they may not enjoy many, many times. Why not allow progression through just being able to play the game as you want? Because right now doing that you may have one elite spec unlocked by next year at this time if you don’t get bored of playing as the same old spec for that long.

The underlying assumption all the folks that discount the issue have is that: “This pve zone isn’t too bad, just do the long mastery grind once, then grind through the near impossible zone to navigate, do hero challenges, and then do those again on all your characters, don’t you just love this progression? Oh and by the way, screw anyone who doesn’t do the map completion stuff, they don’t belong on guild wars anyway because what I enjoy should be what they enjoy.”

Uthrax.5740:

Sorry, I don’t see a problem with any of the issues mentioned in previous posts. I read as many as possible before eyeballs started bleeding.

If ANet makes any more changes, there soon will be another thread juxtaposed to this one of posts lamenting about how there’s ‘nothing to do’ after 2-3 weeks of the HoT release, if that.

I leveled my Revenant in literally the time it took to click on 60 tomes and the instant level 20 scroll. ~5 minutes, tops. So now I need to go farm some Hero Points to flesh out the rest of the elite spec; maybe ~10-15 hours of game time if I focus on it.

The brand new class, maxed out, casually, in less than 10-15 hours.

Way too trivial imo and I somewhat wish I never had any of the tomes to begin with. I can’t even imagine what this OP would be like if some poor soul, with a real life job no less, had to level a brand new class from 1 to 80, in a brand new expansion, with no easy mode leveling ‘tomes’…THE HORROR.

The issues I picked up on in this thread:

- Skills becoming available as you level up has been around for quite some time now. And although I admit when it was first released I didn’t much care for it, I like it now. Having all skills available after you hit a mob a few times seemed kind of silly.

-The Masteries are account bound, learn them once and all characters have access to them seems a bit, again, trivial to even a casual like me. But to each their own I guess.

-The story is fine for me, even before the recent change. Changing the terminology means nothing, ‘Gating’ will always be prevalent in digital gaming. PERIOD. GW2 had no grind or was completely an ‘open world’ previous to HoT? Really?

All games are about time invested; the vast majority of people in this post want their stuff NOW, or else they’ll demand a refund. Very interesting to me, but in a sad way.

My post is in support of ANet to counter some of these ‘interesting’ game-refunding claims, and to ask them to please not cave in too much. This coming from a loyal customer who has played since beta and spent hundreds of dollars on GW2. Others need not respond as I care very little as what you have to say and honestly wish ANet would eliminate these type of open forums in favor of a more concerted effort of personal customer support using email only. Leave these type of opinionated forums to the Fan-Based websites; PLEASE. The actual game related forums are fine, but even those get tiresome when not on topic.

/Awaits_nothingtodoalreadywhenisnextexpansion_threads

This is one of the most close minded posts I have ever seen: “Sorry, I don’t see a problem with any of the issues mentioned in previous posts. I read as many as possible before eyeballs started bleeding.”
How do you not see a single problem other players are facing, are you blind or is your reading comprehension minimal?
-Many of the problems stem from WVW and PVP players essentially having to either go to the PVE zone to unlock their elite specs, OR K-train in Eotm for them, which takes an absurd amount of time. And to do that on upwards of 8+ characters!? Where is the logic in that. The masteries should be the progression for you mainly open world PVERs, but please allow other game modes reasonable ways to achieve the elite specs.

-I have been content with being 80 and having my specs unlocked for ages, without complaining once about “no end game content.” So what on earth makes you think players like me are suddenly going to complain that there is no end game, I want a different way to play, and quite frankly I want it sooner than later because I have played old builds for ages and it would be refreshing to play something new rather than grind grind grind in a ktrain (because the new pve zone is absolutely toxic and frustrating to me) to unlock the specs for the modes I enjoy, wvw, fractals, dungeons, pvp (I know its already unlocked there, but we pvpers do occasionally play other game modes contrary to popular belief.)

MaJoBooOM.4851:

I dont get why you are all complaining about the 400 points .

If you don’t understand our positions, which many of us have outlined multiple times across this thread, please don’t post your nonsense of: “It worked for me, so everyone else should be just fine.”

Raziel.4216:

^ When making key game decisions that affect millions of players? no, they won’t make their decision based on what 2500 complain about.
BTW there’s a difference between forum complaint and constructive feedback.

And why wouldn’t they? I find that in game more people I interact with are frustrated with having to grind one of 2 options to get hero points: WvW Ktrains, or the Map completion. And to add to this there are nearly an un-listable amount of tangential problems with the hero point system.

It is broken, it needs a fix, and I hope the devs are not too dumb to realize that.

leftyboy.9358:

I was willing to compromise on a shorter time frame with elite hp unlocked from mastery and minus the group challenge aspect. Unfortunately the group on the other side of the argument just calls the majority whiners and criers so now my suggestion is just to say to anet, that elite unlocking was just a bad idea and scrap the whole thing so I can play the content with the elite finally.

Unfortunately you are right, most do not have any constructive feedback, and are generally dismissive of issues that players are having problems with. There hasn’t been much of an opposition other than: “It works fine for me, so everyone else needs to deal with it.”

I had a thread like yours I made this morning for suggestions only: so I’ll copy my ideas here, as I know they have long since been buried in the mass craziness:

I know there are a lot of QQ this grind sucks threads out there, but not a lot of them that gather constructive feedback on how to fix the issue organized so the devs don’t have to sift through thousands of posts.

If you are one of the “Well I think the hero points are fine, I enjoy map completion bla bla bla bla bla” players, this thread is not for you either, just constructive feedback to fix the issue that is very real to a large number of players. If you are blind to the fact that the issue does in fact exist for many players, your feedback is of no value.
So the following is a list of suggestions from myself, some are stolen from others, but I will highlight them all with pros and cons:

1. Allow the specs to be played throughout the new HoT areas, instead of having to nearly complete the area to fully unlock the spec
-This suggestion seems to be what a lot of PVE players would like to see, they have been playing with the same build for 3 years up to the expansion, and would like to be able to spice things up and continue through the story/map completion etc… while learning the new class.
-An argument against this has been: “the specialization is available at under 400 HP so just take the traits you unlock until you get the full thing.” That discounts the fact that people will be playing with a largely subpar build, and WvW players will be shafted because the build will likely be all but useless, largely due to not being able to choose which traits to unlock.

2. Create a PVP reward track that allows players to get HP, ~100 per track completion
-This is a suggestion I would like to see implemented personally, as I primarily play pvp and wvw, but occasionally cross into world bosses/fractals/dungeons with friends, so I would like to be able to unlock the specs in a game mode I enjoy playing, and I’m sure I’m not alone in this crowd.
-100 may seem like a lot of HP for a reward track completion, but having to do the reward track 4 times per character with the current system seems reasonable, that way people can say “we worked for our specs,” because 4 reward tracks does take quite a few matches.
-A potential issue is this may lead to pvers meandering into pvp, which does anger a lot of the more skilled pvpers who don’t like having people that don’t understand how to play pvp on their teams.
-It could also lead to people farming quick join, however the rank points earned there are lower than unranked, so it would take them a long while to complete 4 reward tracks. Maybe to prevent farming this, make it so rank points can only be gained from unranked/ranked arena. This will negatively impact the prior issue though, as then the PVErs who would rather come to PVP, maybe to unlock the spec before doing the new area, would essentially be forced to play with the pvpers that don’t want them.

3. Increase the hero point gain in WVW
-Hear me out on this, I know it isn’t as bad as it was first predicted, however it still takes around 50 hours of PVD on each character to unlock the new line. That is a long time, and this has led to some zergs cooperating in normal wvw to essentially karma train, which destroys the whole purpose of wvw being a massive player vs player area.
-EOTM is filled with players all out zerging for essentially one purpose, getting HP, badlands players often get the shaft though because other zergs from OG and FR often have much more populated player bases so they can HP train while crushing a smaller BL zerg on occasion, giving them an advantage of more WXP per hour, while badlands has to work extra hard. I say the faster it is to get the HP done and out of the way, the faster we can be back to playing normal WVW, or even just go straight back to normal wvw and end up with the elite specs in a reasonable amount of time just playing.
-It will also be a slight relief to folks that primarily roam, because it would take them ages to get one elite spec under the current system.

4. Make Elite Specs Baseline
-The elite specs don’t really outshine many of the prior core spec lines in a way that many players think that they really are working too hard to unlock something that is not really worth the effort put in.
-The most common counter argument is: “Why should they be handed to you on a silver platter.” Well in all reality they aren’t. First, you paid fifty dollars for an expansion, fifty dollars that at some point in your life you ideally worked a real job to earn. So it is logical to me that many players want to be able to use what they paid for and not have to “work for it” in a game, which should really be about playing and having fun. When a game gets to the point that you have to work to be able to play a core mechanic, you might as well just get a second part time job and earn some real life money on the side than work virtually.
-A more reasonable counterpoint is: “There should be some feeling of progression.” The issue in large with this is that feeling just is not created as the specs are largely gated behind having to play PVE content, and having to get masteries and struggle through content that isn’t enjoyable to players that don’t do open world, or to players that like to go at a casual pace. And is that not the point of the mastery system- to progress your character, I for one enjoy playing the gliding stuff, but hate navigating the new map in a mad rush to unlock what I want for WVW, fractals, dungeons etc…

5. Go back to the old system where you could go to a vendor and refund hero points to switch up your trait line for a few silver.
-This is an idea I saw presented earlier today, so I kinda stole it, but I REALLY LIKE THIS ONE. Essentially you go to a vendor and purchase a refund for hero points and can spend them in unlocking different trait lines. People will still want to get hero points for convenience of not having to revisit the vendor every time they change builds, and it will allow folks to play how they want, keeping the current system to unlock the mastery skins, while allowing players to play the new content in whatever way they would like.
-I haven’t seen the counter-argument to this, though I imagine there is some elitist crumudgeon out there that would gladly come up with one. ( I welcome folks to input their thoughts, I for one would like to see, and if the devs end up implementing something along the lines of this I would like to see it polished… same goes for all the other suggestions.)

6. Allow Hero Points to be purchased through other currencies.
-I have seen many suggestions floating around about having an exchange of spirit shards for hero points, gems for hero points, gold for hero points etc…
-The thing I see as benefits of having hero points being purchasable, is you can have them in exchange for fractal/dungeon tokens, for spirit shards that seem to build up like crazy, allowing people who do those game modes, but not open world PVE or WVW an option that will allow them to continue dungeon running and fractal running in peace.
-Gems I’m kind of torn on, I think this would look bad on A-net, because plenty of players would be prone to buy out of frustration more than just pure support of the game, but at the same time, some people would rather pay a little bit than waste time doing map completion content they don’t enjoy, because after all, time is money.

7. Lower the amount of hero points required to unlock the elite spec, keep 400 for the skins.
-People really enjoy cosmetics in guild wars, that’s why people are willing to work for legendary weapon skins, armor skins etc… It is informally known as fashion wars for a reason.
-Progression and status can be shown through weapon/armor skins, not to mention some of the new skins are worth the time to get, please just don’t make players have to wait for the new core mechanics along with the skins.
-Elitists will argue: “Well veteran players that do all this “hard” work should be able to play more better than all you pugs that don’t like farming hero points in this new map that I’m leet at.” Veteran players get there status from achievement points, weapon skins, fractal level, pvp rank, wvw rank etc… not from being able to play a class that is gated off to a large group of people that, just frankly, don’t enjoy playing the same content as them, or enjoy playing it differently.

These are some of the suggestions I have made, or come across, please feel free to add your own, mixing and matching the suggestions also works, lets let the devs have something to work off of so Gaile isn’t cherrypicking through the thread to find the one person that says “its working as intended.” Thanks all ahead of time, keep responses positive and constructive

Radiantdawn.1856:

I’ve never done WvW before, so today I thought I’d hop in and see what it’s all about. To my surprise, there was absolutely nobody there. I ran around the SoS Borderlands map and the Eternal Battlegrounds map and there was not a single (SoS) ally to be found. The only people I saw was a medium raid of Fort Aspenwood players, who then proceeded to chase and kill me. Am I missing something here? Please explain, because I am terribly confused. Thanks~

We are all farming hero points… The grind is real.

Honestly, all I’ve been doing so far is grinding to get the elite spec in EOTM, fun is maybe a 2 for the occasional zerg fight.

But for HoT content can’t say much.

The following is a list of suggestions from myself, some are stolen from others, but I will highlight them all with pros and cons:

1. Allow the specs to be played throughout the new HoT areas, instead of having to nearly complete the area to fully unlock the spec
-This suggestion seems to be what a lot of PVE players would like to see, they have been playing with the same build for 3 years up to the expansion, and would like to be able to spice things up and continue through the story/map completion etc… while learning the new class.
-An argument against this has been: “the specialization is available at under 400 HP so just take the traits you unlock until you get the full thing.” That discounts the fact that people will be playing with a largely subpar build, and WvW players will be shafted because the build will likely be all but useless, largely due to not being able to choose which traits to unlock.

2. Create a PVP reward track that allows players to get HP, ~100 per track completion
-This is a suggestion I would like to see implemented personally, as I primarily play pvp and wvw, but occasionally cross into world bosses/fractals/dungeons with friends, so I would like to be able to unlock the specs in a game mode I enjoy playing, and I’m sure I’m not alone in this crowd.
-100 may seem like a lot of HP for a reward track completion, but having to do the reward track 4 times per character with the current system seems reasonable, that way people can say “we worked for our specs,” because 4 reward tracks does take quite a few matches.
-A potential issue is this may lead to pvers meandering into pvp, which does anger a lot of the more skilled pvpers who don’t like having people that don’t understand how to play pvp on their teams.
-It could also lead to people farming quick join, however the rank points earned there are lower than unranked, so it would take them a long while to complete 4 reward tracks. Maybe to prevent farming this, make it so rank points can only be gained from unranked/ranked arena. This will negatively impact the prior issue though, as then the PVErs who would rather come to PVP, maybe to unlock the spec before doing the new area, would essentially be forced to play with the pvpers that don’t want them.

3. Increase the hero point gain in WVW
-Hear me out on this, I know it isn’t as bad as it was first predicted, however it still takes around 50 hours of PVD on each character to unlock the new line. That is a long time, and this has led to some zergs cooperating in normal wvw to essentially karma train, which destroys the whole purpose of wvw being a massive player vs player area.
-EOTM is filled with players all out zerging for essentially one purpose, getting HP, badlands players often get the shaft though because other zergs from OG and FR often have much more populated player bases so they can HP train while crushing a smaller BL zerg on occasion, giving them an advantage of more WXP per hour, while badlands has to work extra hard. I say the faster it is to get the HP done and out of the way, the faster we can be back to playing normal WVW, or even just go straight back to normal wvw and end up with the elite specs in a reasonable amount of time just playing.
-It will also be a slight relief to folks that primarily roam, because it would take them ages to get one elite spec under the current system.

4. Make Elite Specs Baseline
-The elite specs don’t really outshine many of the prior core spec lines in a way that many players think that they really are working too hard to unlock something that is not really worth the effort put in.
-The most common counter argument is: “Why should they be handed to you on a silver platter.” Well in all reality they aren’t. First, you paid fifty dollars for an expansion, fifty dollars that at some point in your life you ideally worked a real job to earn. So it is logical to me that many players want to be able to use what they paid for and not have to “work for it” in a game, which should really be about playing and having fun. When a game gets to the point that you have to work to be able to play a core mechanic, you might as well just get a second part time job and earn some real life money on the side than work virtually.
-A more reasonable counterpoint is: “There should be some feeling of progression.” The issue in large with this is that feeling just is not created as the specs are largely gated behind having to play PVE content, and having to get masteries and struggle through content that isn’t enjoyable to players that don’t do open world, or to players that like to go at a casual pace. And is that not the point of the mastery system- to progress your character, I for one enjoy playing the gliding stuff, but hate navigating the new map in a mad rush to unlock what I want for WVW, fractals, dungeons etc…

5. Go back to the old system where you could go to a vendor and refund hero points to switch up your trait line for a few silver.
-This is an idea I saw presented earlier today, so I kinda stole it, but I REALLY LIKE THIS ONE. Essentially you go to a vendor and purchase a refund for hero points and can spend them in unlocking different trait lines. People will still want to get hero points for convenience of not having to revisit the vendor every time they change builds, and it will allow folks to play how they want, keeping the current system to unlock the mastery skins, while allowing players to play the new content in whatever way they would like.
-I haven’t seen the counter-argument to this, though I imagine there is some elitist crumudgeon out there that would gladly come up with one. ( I welcome folks to input their thoughts, I for one would like to see, and if the devs end up implementing something along the lines of this I would like to see it polished… same goes for all the other suggestions.)

6. Allow Hero Points to be purchased through other currencies.
-I have seen many suggestions floating around about having an exchange of spirit shards for hero points, gems for hero points, gold for hero points etc…
-The thing I see as benefits of having hero points being purchasable, is you can have them in exchange for fractal/dungeon tokens, for spirit shards that seem to build up like crazy, allowing people who do those game modes, but not open world PVE or WVW an option that will allow them to continue dungeon running and fractal running in peace.
-Gems I’m kind of torn on, I think this would look bad on A-net, because plenty of players would be prone to buy out of frustration more than just pure support of the game, but at the same time, some people would rather pay a little bit than waste time doing map completion content they don’t enjoy, because after all, time is money.

7. Lower the amount of hero points required to unlock the elite spec, keep 400 for the skins.
-People really enjoy cosmetics in guild wars, that’s why people are willing to work for legendary weapon skins, armor skins etc… It is informally known as fashion wars for a reason.
-Progression and status can be shown through weapon/armor skins, not to mention some of the new skins are worth the time to get, please just don’t make players have to wait for the new core mechanics along with the skins.
-Elitists will argue: “Well veteran players that do all this “hard” work should be able to play more better than all you pugs that don’t like farming hero points in this new map that I’m leet at.” Veteran players get there status from achievement points, weapon skins, fractal level, pvp rank, wvw rank etc… not from being able to play a class that is gated off to a large group of people that, just frankly, don’t enjoy playing the same content as them, or enjoy playing it differently.

These are some of the suggestions I have made, or come across, please feel free to add your own, mixing and matching the suggestions also works, lets let the devs have something to work off of so Gaile isn’t cherrypicking through the thread to find the one person that says “its working as intended.”

I know there are a lot of QQ this grind sucks threads out there, but not a lot of them that gather constructive feedback on how to fix the issue organized so the devs don’t have to sift through thousands of posts. So Please list your feedback on how you would like to see the hero point shenanigans fixed.

If you are one of the “Well I think the hero points are fine, I enjoy map completion bla bla bla bla bla” players, this thread is not for you either, just constructive feedback to fix the issue that is very real to a large number of players. If you are blind to the fact that the issue does in fact exist for many players, your feedback is of no value.

So the following is a list of suggestions from myself, some are stolen from others, but I will highlight them all with pros and cons:

1. Allow the specs to be played throughout the new HoT areas, instead of having to nearly complete the area to fully unlock the spec
-This suggestion seems to be what a lot of PVE players would like to see, they have been playing with the same build for 3 years up to the expansion, and would like to be able to spice things up and continue through the story/map completion etc… while learning the new class.
-An argument against this has been: “the specialization is available at under 400 HP so just take the traits you unlock until you get the full thing.” That discounts the fact that people will be playing with a largely subpar build, and WvW players will be shafted because the build will likely be all but useless, largely due to not being able to choose which traits to unlock.

2. Create a PVP reward track that allows players to get HP, ~100 per track completion
-This is a suggestion I would like to see implemented personally, as I primarily play pvp and wvw, but occasionally cross into world bosses/fractals/dungeons with friends, so I would like to be able to unlock the specs in a game mode I enjoy playing, and I’m sure I’m not alone in this crowd.
-100 may seem like a lot of HP for a reward track completion, but having to do the reward track 4 times per character with the current system seems reasonable, that way people can say “we worked for our specs,” because 4 reward tracks does take quite a few matches.
-A potential issue is this may lead to pvers meandering into pvp, which does anger a lot of the more skilled pvpers who don’t like having people that don’t understand how to play pvp on their teams.
-It could also lead to people farming quick join, however the rank points earned there are lower than unranked, so it would take them a long while to complete 4 reward tracks. Maybe to prevent farming this, make it so rank points can only be gained from unranked/ranked arena. This will negatively impact the prior issue though, as then the PVErs who would rather come to PVP, maybe to unlock the spec before doing the new area, would essentially be forced to play with the pvpers that don’t want them.

3. Increase the hero point gain in WVW
-Hear me out on this, I know it isn’t as bad as it was first predicted, however it still takes around 50 hours of PVD on each character to unlock the new line. That is a long time, and this has led to some zergs cooperating in normal wvw to essentially karma train, which destroys the whole purpose of wvw being a massive player vs player area.
-EOTM is filled with players all out zerging for essentially one purpose, getting HP, badlands players often get the shaft though because other zergs from OG and FR often have much more populated player bases so they can HP train while crushing a smaller BL zerg on occasion, giving them an advantage of more WXP per hour, while badlands has to work extra hard. I say the faster it is to get the HP done and out of the way, the faster we can be back to playing normal WVW, or even just go straight back to normal wvw and end up with the elite specs in a reasonable amount of time just playing.
-It will also be a slight relief to folks that primarily roam, because it would take them ages to get one elite spec under the current system.

4. Make Elite Specs Baseline
-The elite specs don’t really outshine many of the prior core spec lines in a way that many players think that they really are working too hard to unlock something that is not really worth the effort put in.
-The most common counter argument is: “Why should they be handed to you on a silver platter.” Well in all reality they aren’t. First, you paid fifty dollars for an expansion, fifty dollars that at some point in your life you ideally worked a real job to earn. So it is logical to me that many players want to be able to use what they paid for and not have to “work for it” in a game, which should really be about playing and having fun. When a game gets to the point that you have to work to be able to play a core mechanic, you might as well just get a second part time job and earn some real life money on the side than work virtually.
-A more reasonable counterpoint is: “There should be some feeling of progression.” The issue in large with this is that feeling just is not created as the specs are largely gated behind having to play PVE content, and having to get masteries and struggle through content that isn’t enjoyable to players that don’t do open world, or to players that like to go at a casual pace. And is that not the point of the mastery system- to progress your character, I for one enjoy playing the gliding stuff, but hate navigating the new map in a mad rush to unlock what I want for WVW, fractals, dungeons etc…

5. Go back to the old system where you could go to a vendor and refund hero points to switch up your trait line for a few silver.
-This is an idea I saw presented earlier today, so I kinda stole it, but I REALLY LIKE THIS ONE. Essentially you go to a vendor and purchase a refund for hero points and can spend them in unlocking different trait lines. People will still want to get hero points for convenience of not having to revisit the vendor every time they change builds, and it will allow folks to play how they want, keeping the current system to unlock the mastery skins, while allowing players to play the new content in whatever way they would like.
-I haven’t seen the counter-argument to this, though I imagine there is some elitist crumudgeon out there that would gladly come up with one. ( I welcome folks to input their thoughts, I for one would like to see, and if the devs end up implementing something along the lines of this I would like to see it polished… same goes for all the other suggestions.)

6. Allow Hero Points to be purchased through other currencies.
-I have seen many suggestions floating around about having an exchange of spirit shards for hero points, gems for hero points, gold for hero points etc…
-The thing I see as benefits of having hero points being purchasable, is you can have them in exchange for fractal/dungeon tokens, for spirit shards that seem to build up like crazy, allowing people who do those game modes, but not open world PVE or WVW an option that will allow them to continue dungeon running and fractal running in peace.
-Gems I’m kind of torn on, I think this would look bad on A-net, because plenty of players would be prone to buy out of frustration more than just pure support of the game, but at the same time, some people would rather pay a little bit than waste time doing map completion content they don’t enjoy, because after all, time is money.

7. Lower the amount of hero points required to unlock the elite spec, keep 400 for the skins.
-People really enjoy cosmetics in guild wars, that’s why people are willing to work for legendary weapon skins, armor skins etc… It is informally known as fashion wars for a reason.
-Progression and status can be shown through weapon/armor skins, not to mention some of the new skins are worth the time to get, please just don’t make players have to wait for the new core mechanics along with the skins.
-Elitists will argue: "Well veteran players that do all this “hard” work should be able to play more better than all you pugs that don’t like farming hero points in this new map that I’m leet at." Veteran players get there status from achievement points, weapon skins, fractal level, pvp rank, wvw rank etc… not from being able to play a class that is gated off to a large group of people that, just frankly, don’t enjoy playing the same content as them, or enjoy playing it differently.

These are some of the suggestions I have made, or come across, please feel free to add your own, mixing and matching the suggestions also works, lets let the devs have something to work off of so Gaile isn’t cherrypicking through the thread to find the one person that says “its working as intended.” Thanks all ahead of time, keep responses positive and constructive.

I think you, like many others who think the way you do, of the “this is fine, I don’t think its a grind” group are completely discounting legitimate problems other players are having. Guild wars has never been about, and should not be about unlocking something that makes your gameplay more l33t than another player through a painful pve grind wall. It has, however been about cosmetic progression, that is what the grind to show you are a veteran player is for, such as legendary weapons. They are optional and are not a core way to play the game, so people will work for them and everyone is happy.

You are also discounting players that abhor open world pve, I have less than 20 percent map completion on all my characters because the open world frustrated me even before this new mind numbingly painful to navigate zone existed.

What about folks with tons of alts, they enjoy playing them differently, or sometimes just having the same build with different appearances, or they want to have all the builds available to all of their classes so they can change up their gameplay, and the hundreds of other reasons people make alts.

And then there are folks who mainly do pvp and cross into the other game modes that would like to unlock the elite specs for the occasions that they play fractals et… They should not be forced to do map completion. The wvw option is bad because it takes much longer than the map completion (albeit it’s not as mentally painful to me) and it encourages hero point trains. On the bright side eotm has been booming.

I, like OP used to want my own hall for my solo bank guild, just to design in, then I realized I wouldn’t enjoy any of the content because there was no point if no one else was playing alongside you. And I want to smash heads in the arenas.

Zende.1704:

I don’t understand why everyone is crying about the number of hero points needed to unlock the elite specialization.

I find it perfectly normal that you need to progress an acquire experience in the jungle before you become stronger.

In fact I find it quite fun because contrary to regular tyria, in the jungle you feel weak if you use a new magic unknown to you until you get some hero points that makes you stronger and stronger. All of that without having a new level cap like in other mmos!

I really think Anet nailed it. It is normal to not unlock all the expansion in one day, and I believe that once you get a decent amount of masteries unlocked, it will be quite fast to get the elite spec with your other characters so the system seems really well thought if you really think about it!

Well isn’t that just dandy for you, but not everyone plays like you, we don’t all enjoy leaving our preferred game modes in order to grind for the points, not everyone is a PVER, not everyone is a PVPER, and not everyone is a WVWer, but there are many within each of those groups, and many who play a bit of everything who absolutely abhor grinding the map completion for the new content, or grinding eotm, for ages, to unlock a way to play the new content.

Sad thing is, the dev will likely quote you saying something like: “OMG I don’t see why all these people complaining (offering valid complaints AND solutions) don’t think like this person, who is enjoying the new content as I think it should be.”

warbignime.4610:

This happens every time, don’t give in to people complaining. People will complain about things they can not finish in a few hours and theu find many reason to justify how they don’t want play the game but want evwrything unlocked.

Anet please stand your ground, if you nerf it. The same people saying it took too long and grindy will leave in a week while yelling expansion is too easy and there is nothing to do.

Just because you are satisfied with doing the world completion crapola, does not mean many other players are. Lots of us want different ways to get the specs, and that is an issue that must be addressed. NOT everyone plays like you do, so stop assuming everything is fine just because it doesn’t negatively affect your experience, you are discounting a lot of legitimate concerns from a large number of players.

Gaile Gray.6029:

No one — especially me — is diminishing the thoughts, concerns, and input on this subject being shared by our forum members. But I believe that it is premature to make a comment about “forever” in the context of a game that has been playable for less than 24 hours.

I stand by that, for it is what I believe. I believe that time will give everyone a better view of this situation. The outcome may be that it’s seen that yes, the difficulty is too high. The outcome may be that eventually, the number is seen as reasonable and properly attainable.

I think that all of us — players and developers alike — do not have sufficient information yet to know what the “sweet spot” is. I suggest we allow us — as players and devs — to attain the necessary info to analyze this situation through gameplay and the passage of time. I want to assure you that I don’t mean months and months, either, but some amount of time on which to base an informed opinion.

I say this especially when I see this post:

Nike.2631:

It been just over 18 hours and I’ve unlocked everything I wanted for my main including the GM I intend to use. Needed one mastery level of gliding and one mastery level of mushroom bounce. Still trying to pick some ‘low-hanging fruit’ Hero Challenges, but basically I’m good to go anywhere.

Day one Dragonhunter. I can live with it. Still need another 90 points for the armor/runes, but I don’t plan to use either so that’s just showing off .

I think the example you chose is unfair to a good number of players, like myself, who are not part of this niche group that enjoys, and is good at map completion. I have under 20% map completion on all my characters, because, even before expansion I did not enjoy that aspect of the game, it made me frustrated, now I come to the new zone and I’m falling off every ledge getting lost, have no idea where to go and in general had a poor experience trying to rush to get the heck out of there.

Well I ended up not getting a single hero point due to my frustration causing me to leave, though I did find the glider quite enjoyable and would like to see that implemented somewhat in wvw if it would be plausible.

Then I went and commanded for an hour and a half in EOTM, with the sole purpose of farming hero point shard things, and only got 17 of those, I don’t like how the elite specs have been so immensely timegated for folks who aren’t like the guy you quoted, we are the ones who feel the shaft the hardest, I’m sure the guy you quoted enjoyed the map completion content much more than myself and other players are.

Some options for players like me would be:
-Make it more reasonable for wvw to get specs, or if you get the spec it unlocks all of them for all characters. B/C it discourages actual wvw play and encourages the player vs. door.
-Make a reward track in pvp to unlock them for the other game modes, this is much more comfortable for myself, and many of my guildies who are struggling in the map completion.
-Add rewards in fractals to purchase the specs.
-Lower the amount of hero points required, significantly, allow players to enjoy the new areas with their new elite specs, instead of dragging on with the builds we have been playing. (other than rev, which I find to be an enjoyable new class, if only I could try out herald…)
-Maybe then make the 400 hero point grind more for the skins, than for the class itself, I think this would be reasonable, and fashion is the content most folks enjoy working towards, whether you enjoy the new “progression” or not, people like working on their own unique wardrobe… and guess what it doesn’t damage the playing experience for any groups of players. Besides, the skins are pretty well done for the most part, I would joyfully play on the elite specs I find exciting for quite some time through normal wvw and what not to get those skins.

And I would respectfully disagree on there not being enough time to see how it pans out. The 400 cap per character is absolutely appalling, and to altoholics like me I would have a heart attack and die going through that map completion on every single one of my alts, over and over again. I can’t even do it once, and don’t plan on going back to the new area until I’m not frustrated about the fact that I’m being forced out of the game areas I enjoy to the area of the game I avoid at all costs to try and rush through the hoarding of hero points, just so I can have my elite spec for the times I do fractals/dungeons/world bosses with friends.

I would just like to comfortably play pvp and wvw without HP training and without worrying about my specs in other game modes, since I model them after my pvp specs as closely as possible.

Thank you Gaile for sticking your head in the fire again, it’s good to see the devs looking into a solution to this.

My advice to people that ask if the expansion is worth it is that they better enjoy map completion, and not getting to play the new classes unless they can do that without rage quitting, else it just aint worth the $50.00. Luckily Halo 5 comes out soon enough, so I can play that while the devs get this fixed.

Gewd.8125:

I spend most of my time trying to figure out how to get somewhere than actually having fun.

75% of the time the path is blocked by a mastery I don’t have yet.

I’ve already spent several hours doing events and I am only level 2. Anyone feel this is way too slow?

THIS! I HATE THE PVE the more I slug through it trying to unlock elite specs for wvw…. I hate falling off and ending up some random place. Please create a pvp reward track for the specs so I can at least enjoy playing while unlocking the specs instead of agonizing through map completion crapola that has never even slightly appealed to me.

Mightybird.6034:

~20 hours if you already have 200 pts

closer to 30- 40 hours if you’re a rev or don’t do world map completion…

Earn them yes…after like ~8 hours. I have 10 characters. I am not spending ~300+ hours getting them all their elites…

There should be reasonable alternatives to having to do the map completion, you can level to 80 through essentially every other game mode (tomes in pvp, levelling in wvw etc..) and unlock essentially anything you want by playing the game mode of your choice.

I think the people saying “well duh its progression” don’t realize that it is more or less frustration to people who don’t enjoy map completion content. And the wvw alternative is even worse with how slow it is.

ZombieLeach.5862:

I understand people’s frustration, the game has been out about a day shouldn’t you have everything already? It’s what Anet has done in the past; why not now? 400 hero points should be like 40, right? To be real, I expected this hate outburst. Anet adds harder content and everyone who just wants their stuff now crawls out of the woodwork. Just chill. You have a right to complain but senseless hate won’t help. Make suggestions, offer solutions, and try to make the experience better for everyone not worse with venom. :/

No, you don’t understand the frustration, the problem is forced map completion, which to many players is a grind because they play different game modes. And even many who enjoy map completion would like to enjoy the new zones as the elite specs.

All the elitist attitudes of: “well you better work hard” on a game is ridiculous. Most players are here to have fun, not get frustrated because they are gated from enjoying a core part of the game.

Jobs in real life are for hard work, a game is for relaxation, fun with friends, and get what you payed for, not a frustration bucket. As a primarily wvw and pvp player I was banging my head against my desk just trying to figure out the new zone, not even getting hero points yet, because it took me so long and I was so frustrated at the specs being locked behind masteries on top of map completion which I hate. (there is a reason the most map completion I have on any character is 20%.)

Conner.5803:

Would’ve loved to see it being 200 heropoints and that HoT heropoints were worth 5 points each. That way you could chose to do Tyria OR HoT map completions to unlock your elite spec.

How about instead of just being in PVE open world content, on top of that, they allow more efficient ways to get Hero Points in SPVP reward tracks, Fractal rewards, from dungeons, from wvw that doesn’t require a year of playing to get 1 spec line…. etc…

People should be able to play how they want and not be penalized by not being able to obtain a core part of something that they PAID a decent amount of money for.

I think thats an unfair inference on OPs part to say that the grind is officially 16+ hours, my concern is the fact the dev seems to discount the player reaction to their implementation. I have had great experiences with guild wars customer service in the past, I really hope it was a non-serious type post and that the devs are really looking into making the elite specs more reasonable to get than by doing the map completion nonsense.

Gaile Gray.6029:

DarcShriek.5829:

The mastery system as only been available for 15 hours. Your complaining about it being forever is just pure over dramatization. Congratulations on being awarded the William Shatner award for dramatic excellence.

First, thank you for saying, in your first sentence, my very thoughts: “It’s been less than 16 hours, and that’s ’forever?” Secondly, thanks for a smile. I’d love to see the statue that goes with that award.

Thanks for poking your head into the storm while other devs have been hiding away, hopefully they are busy trying to provide reasonable solutions to this problem to folks that do not enjoy map completion

I really just hope you guys aren’t discounting the concerns of a large amount of players, such as pvpers, wvwers, fractals and dungeon runners,I for one do not like being forced out of the content I enjoy to get what I payed for.

Raziel.4216:

DeceiverX.8361:

Raziel.4216:

DeceiverX.8361:

the fact that yes a very sizable number of people seem to agree with this notion.

Proof?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/elite-specializations-how-many-hero-points-Merged/page/40#post5643684

Game has over 7m active accounts according to the infographic they revealed yesterday.
That forum topic has 1.9k posts, out of which a large portion talk about how good the hero point adcquisition method is.
For the sake of your argument let’s assume that all 1.9k posts are people saying they got a refund.
7 million accounts in gw2 (3m+ sales before f2p went live) – 1.9k refunded, how is this a large portion of the playerbase?
I’ll ask again, proof?

The “advocates” are pvers that do the open world content anyway. You are ignoring the fact that this screws over players of all sorts of different niches than your “wow I wandered around and killed some mobs to get my spec, this feels like progression” nonsense. The elite specs should be baseline, they are not all worth the pve grind to get. Period. But nonetheless they should be attainable without suffering through crap that you don’t want to do.

When is the fix coming from the devs for those of us who don’t want to wait a billion years doing boring pve repeatedly on each character just to get the selling point of the expansion?

Terrible design, and even worse implementation. All the open world pvers that think working for something means leaving the content (wvw, spvp, fractals, dungeons) that you enjoy doing in order to unlock something that should be baseline in the expansion is absolute nonsense. I don’t play a game to work hard, that’s what I have a job for, I play to have fun.

BrotherBelial.3094:

JediYoda.1275:

Anet warned us several months ago so the players can do all the HP’s to get ready for h.o.t . Each HP in new maps are 10 points each and you can get all 400 points in new maps if you want.

This. ANet told us to go grab the HP in the core game ready for HoT. Looks.like only a few of us .listened.

Not everyone wants to farm HP in pve.

Classes that don’t stay and fight to the death are pansy classes anyway.

OP is in the exact same niche as I am, I don’t care about the new pve content at all, I play wvw,pvp, and fractals and don’t want to grind for hero points to play what I payed for. I can see them wanting people to play the content, but forcing us to do it is outrageous. I have less than 10 percent map completion on all my characters for a reason…

AlliedKhajiit.2794:

did you even read anything about the new elite spec stuff?
400 points required, and hero point challenges in HoT maps give 10 hero points, where everywhere else in Tyria they give 1.
also your suggestion makes no sense, you’re basically saying “I don’t care about the new content, so let me play the new content.”

I don’t want to do those challenges because, like I said open world pve is boring to me, and the wvw way to get them is outrageously costly, 200 wvw ranks and 6000 badges per character???!!!! I want to have other methods of obtaining the hero points. I would not even mind a pvp reward track that gives them. Seriously anything but doing open world pve.

Bunter.3795:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

gavyne.6847:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

/sigh

(Silver platter) here yah go. The whole game unlocked for you. Enjoy.

Would you call having access to a lvl 80 character “the whole game unlocked”? No? Then I wouldn’t consider gaining access to the elite specs that we paid for “the whole game unlocked” either.

The actual game is playing for masteries, raiding, dungeon running, WvWing, PvPing, farming for mats, and map exploration which was always an optional thing not a requirement.

I would rather have access to the elite specs that I paid for, so I can go ahead and enjoy the rest of the game at my own pace, on my own time, when I want to. You know, the Guild Wars way. To the OP, yes today’s news is a buzzkill to many. People who enjoy PvE and map exploration of course are ok with the news. But for the rest of us that prefer other parts of this fine game, it was a buzzkill. It soured my mood 3 days before expansion launch…and here I was hyping and getting excited about it before we were slapped with this info.

Which by the way, the same info players have been asking clarification for weeks and months ago. People already had expectations that they could play their elite specs on day 1. And bang, 3 days before launch we’re slapped with this awful news. Buzzkill indeed. My hype & excitement now is filled with dread. Because frankly, running around unlocking hero points is not what I consider fun. Nor is it having to do it 11 times for my 11 characters.

You get the all core traits unlocked by dinging 80. You get the ELITE traits unlocked by playing the game. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to have to play the game to unlock elite traits on all my level 80s.

People who enjoy PvE and map exploration of course are ok with the news. But for the rest of us that prefer other parts of this fine game, it was a buzzkill

It’s unlocked in PvP automatically for HoT owners. You can unlock in WvW just by playing in WvW. So this part of your complaint is not valid.

Why do PvP players get it unlocked for free and WvW players don’t? You cannot give any sort of logical rational argument as to why that is the case. Why don’t PvP’ers have to play X amount of pvp before it’s unlocked for them. It’s what the WvW player has to do. You completely gloss over the fact that PvP are given instant and complete access to the entire content for their favored mode yet WvW and PvE are not. Yet when the WvW community makes comments about the situation you come here with asinine comments about “silver platter”. It’s the pvp community that is given the entire content on a silver platter, why can’t the WvW have the same opportunity to have the content unlocked immediately for their game mode.

I primarily play pvp, rarely play pve content and especially not open world content because I find it tedious. I do play a lot of wvw also because I enjoy the competition. I really would like it even if they made it so you have to unlock them in pvp, but once they are unlocked you can use them in the other game modes so I don’t have to waste my time on content I do not enjoy playing as much or at all.

If they make Hero points purchase able on a basis of 1 spirit shard to 1 hero point I believe it would help folks like myself that do not like open world pve content deal with the absurd amount of hero points required just to be able to play the new content, since spirit shards seem to accumulate without having many uses.

400 hero points is outrageous. The specs are hardly worth playing miserable pve for that long.