The video is also dated because the patch just hit and the game changed significantly.
Also, identifying yourself with an MMO class is always going to lead to disappointment that you bring upon yourself. If it gets strong enough where people whine about it, then it will be nerfed and you won’t be as strong anymore.
Eles aren’t that great vs. condis, but they are against direct damage. If you cannot see that after they were that strong vs. direct damage for months and only got slight nerfs you are the one that is hopeless not me.
While I do acknowledge that people do not bring Ele to competitive settings, that was before this patch and I think people have yet to see the potential of a super burst Ele on an immob’d target that your teammates set up or how difficult it will be for these Warrior builds to beat a Clerics D/D ele 1v1 now that they don’t have 6s of stuns to troll with
Immob can also be stacked on targets with proper engagement decision making and Earth Signet and D/D Fresh Air. Can you 1v1 with it? No. That’s not what super burst is supposed to do anyway. Your job is to fight dirty and wait for the moments where you can come in and totally ruin an otherwise even matchup in your team’s favor.
Is that “cheap” and “unfair”? Absolutely if you think of the game that way. Will you be more effective with it than trying to 1v1 warriors with less armor and sustain? Absolutely.
Think before you QQ you might find that whatever you were QQing about has solutions that you previously were too angry to realize.
The patch just hit. Everybody in all MMOs freak out but not to the self-pitying pathetic garbage degree that GW2 players do.
This is pitiful guys. Nope, not even pitiful I’m thinking about making some meme pictures of GW2 crybabies.
Toughness + Healing Power vs. Direct damage is extremely effective defense.
Your Warrior opponents that are clearly roflstomping you on sight are doing so because you’re rolling in with 1.9 to 2.1k armor while they have 2.5 to 2.7k armor with the same damage and more sustain because you probably aren’t using 30 water while they’re using 30 Defense, which provides a similar function for them.
Who’s to blame for that losing situation? You’re obviously too busy feeling sorry for yourself to look for solutions so have fun being miserable
People are living up to the silliness and completely nonsensical knee jerk QQ I sadly anticipated.
Tip for the angry and self pitying: take a big drink of water, think about something else for a couple hours, then take a look at immobs and warriors objectively and develop strategies.
Examples:
Do I need to bring condition cleansing instead of a second DPS utility slot?
Do I need to bring my own immob(s) to take advantage of this new situation?
Can I 1v1 a mega-sustain warrior? If not, then would it make more sense to just abandon the point he’s on and fight his other teammates?
What are the most likely builds the other team is running? Does my build help my team tilt the balance of the fight in our favor or hurt it?
Take some time to objectively analyze the situation and stop getting all worked up so you can find a solution to your problem(s)
And you don’t need objective information to show you the silliness of this QQ you need to meditate or something lol this is why Anet doesn’t do patch updates every month b/c people FREAK OUT like they got robbed or something
lol
You’re just silly if you don’t see how mega sustain D/D ele doesn’t keep a point nearly indefinitely vs a melee class.
You also have teammates. S/D can actually be even better for mega sustain, because you have two heals in water and blinds.
Warriors can build for Destruction of the Empowered, but come on… the HPS on Clerics Ele is enormous it’s gonna take way too long for it to be worth it.
Of course there are, but not 6 to 8 at a time…
I called it…
Metric ton of QQ about immob stacking only took 24 hours to start flooding the forums.
Condi clear utility skills are calling your names and waving at you
Makes for a pretty bland game if everyone is forced into that one build that’s really really good at removing conditions.
Or just taking a different trait and maybe changing one of your utilities. For example, Protection Injection vs. Cleaning Formula 409. What’s the point of having protection on CC if you get more defensive return from dodging and not being immob’d?
New meta folks… it’s time to adapt
Because then it’s a kitten ed if you do, kitten ed if you don’t situation. There’s strengths and weaknesses, then there is binary gameplay.
Why don’t we revert Para Sigil back to it’s broken state? Just adapt and bring more stunbreakers bro, L2P right? Mhm..
LOL
You could, you know, build some immob in your build since so many classes have the ability to. It’s not like Fear where only two classes can really use it without depending on a rune set.
Every single class in the game can immobilize people to varying degrees. This isn’t like stun locking or OP Necro where one class rules them all anymore.
If you run a burst ele with Earth sigil, for example, and stay out of 1v1s, immob stack a called target, and dump your burst there isn’t an armor level or HPS combination in this game that can handle that if your teammate(s) have any idea what they’re doing.
Not as much as there was before…
This isn’t June-July where Necros were flooding the maps 3 or 4 at a time, and if there are why aren’t you roflstomping them with a Warrior?
Run S/F Fresh Air and Elemental Surge and stop whining already.
If you can’t handle Zerker, then do Valkyrie’s with Zerker Jewel and drop Fresh Air for 20 Water.
If you play smart on a burst class and your teammates have good sustain – damage builds you can come in and blow up their called targets and get out pretty much unscathed.
Also, if there are a bunch of Warriors and they are using direct damage, which most do by copying and pasting LB/Hammer, old school D/D sustain ele keeps the point and outlasts them and they waste their time trying to kill you while your teammates will be in a better position to outnumber them.
Or devs could remove stupid players and QQers who can’t see past their own biases…
Kidding aside, Immob is a condition. Conditions require cleansing. You don’t have to sacrifice whatever your build is designed to do, like take a different amulet entirely, just change a trait or utility slot and then you can handle this terrible awful horrible new threat to you.
I called it…
Metric ton of QQ about immob stacking only took 24 hours to start flooding the forums.
Condi clear utility skills are calling your names and waving at you
Makes for a pretty bland game if everyone is forced into that one build that’s really really good at removing conditions.
Or just taking a different trait and maybe changing one of your utilities. For example, Protection Injection vs. Cleaning Formula 409. What’s the point of having protection on CC if you get more defensive return from dodging and not being immob’d?
New meta folks… it’s time to adapt
I called it…
Metric ton of QQ about immob stacking only took 24 hours to start flooding the forums.
Condi clear utility skills are calling your names and waving at you
Ya I’ve been D/C’d several times tonight pls take a look at it.
It’s on display on GW2PVPTV right now
Ya people are freaking out but I keep saying and it will eventually show itself that immob stacking just changed the meta in a huge way
I think once the QQ storm settles down people are going to see that immob stacking as a team will let you run pretty much any class you want, burst or condi.
If you can’t dodge something that limits the defensive advantage sigil of energy has or permadodge S/D thief
Keep in mind I’m not saying copy and paste the latest meta build, but rather learning the game and picking what is going to give you the best chance to win.
For example, I played a match earlier against all burst classes – mesmers, thieves, and warriors. I got on my ele and made the old D/D perma sustain build and nobody could kill me 1v1.
You don’t have to run one build just because people say its good – you have to think about when the best time to use a build is and adjust…
I’m gonna be cautiously optimistic but I think all 8 classes are viable now.
It’ll be interesting to see how people start using immob stacking now. Maybe ele and mesmer burst teams can come back now?
If you guys get off the forum and play for a bit you’ll see the new possibilities from immob stacking that are opened up for a ton of classes.
Landing ele burst is a lot easier when they can’t dodge… same with mesmers.
And the metric ton of QQ has landed…
I think once people get over the fact that they actually did what they said they would, shave not make wholesale changes, they’ll see that the immob stacking makes a huge difference
That’s a stare at the monitor and shake your head moment. The pain is seeping through the words sir
I am finding that immob stacking is very, very good for burst builds. Once you get them stuck blow em up!
It helps Ele a lot with Elemental Surge, Sig of Earth, D/D or some other combination
so I was playing around with the #s from the gw2guru article and put this together:
5 Runes of Eagle, 1 Divinity = 10% Crit Damage
Valks or Zerker Ammy = 20%
30 Traits points into Crit Damage
That establishes your base of 60% crit damage, which will give you the highest base avg. damage for power builds.
From there you already have the minimum required power for the highest curve in the chart that pvp itemization allows from gear, so everything you do from there goes to Precision to get that crit % up, since you’ve already hit the point before the slight diminishing returns from adding more power.
Example builds by class:
Warrior LB/Hammer Variant
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQJATSjkOxwpQyOMxBE0jvgLqiTBlQ9AP2w4A-ToAg0CnIwRhjDHDOScs1MIYhA
Arcane Surge S/F Ele
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fEAQJArdhEmKbkxzgjDIkCmg4hF4AcY5xMED1AA-ToAA0CnIwRhjDHDOScs1MIYaB
Tricky Burst D/P Thief
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAoaVlUmaPncS6E/5Ey2jKUo4JvHk1YZWaFoJA-TsAg0CnIwRhjDHDOScs1MIYZx0CA
Big Scary Lich
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNAW4djMaV6hbabM8JkpCeT0jhRZYGqHlT68hA-TsAA0CnIwRhjDHDOScs1MsYRw2CA
(edited by jmatb.6307)
Shout Warrior will be pretty interesting and much more effective at support than the Banner regen stuff we see right now. Spreading Fury to your teammates is a lot more helpful, and getting a free Shake it Off actually ends up being more efficient for condi removal than Guardians with 3 shouts. I’d run that instead of a guardian if my teammates want to do burst and help immob stack.
Staff Ele is gonna be good as a mid support as well with that revamped Earth spell that knocks people back, and buffed heals. I can see a 0/0/20/30/20 build working with Rock Solid and Blasting Staff.
I don’t think anyone has ever tried a Mesmer mid support but with the mantra AoE stuff it’s at least worth a shot. That’s way out of people’s comfort zone though.
Its one of the changes we’re seeing tomorrow.
I’m okay with it, you’re not doing any damage with mist form or earth shield so anyone dumb enough to try to just invuln all day to defend a point is going to get farmed by good players that rotate over to them after they kill all their teammates.
HGH Engi
is going
to destroy everything in sight
Unfortunately they still have to contend with S/D thieves and Condi transfer from Necros.
If LS only removes 1 boon then it won’t be that bad. Necro condi passing will still hurt, but nobody can be immortal right?
Stab on AoE is awesome for that build
HGH Engi
is going
to destroy everything in sight
Ya its a bunch of wasted energy. People that get so kitten about every little thing and get all personal about “their class” bring it on themselves.
Anyway, I can already tell there is going to be a metric ton of QQ coming up in the new patch. Here are some of my predictions for new builds that will make people rage:
- HGH Engi is back in a big, big way. Engi has an S on its chest for this patch cycle.
- Immob stacking is gonna really make people really mad. Venom share thief spreading Devourer’s to a Shatter Mesmer and Burst Ele? Good luck trying to survive that LOL
- MM Necro is gonna challenge Ranger for home node role. The sustain you can get from lifesteal, healing your minions with Death Shroud, the damage output… People are going to rage when they try to 1v1 that.
I am cautiously optimistic, but it’s hard not to be excited that Burst teams will have better tools to compete with. I was really mad at the Condi meta, but I can see that matchup being relatively with these tools available now.
thieves have s/d and everything else kinda sucks in this meta. Even tho i think s/d lacks a lot like AOE, condition… They dont really teamfight super well
S/D Thief sucks vs. a Warrior using any number of builds. Their pressure is bouncing off a 2.9k armor wall that is hitting them back with the same level of damage against 1.9 to 2.1k armor
Do you know what “Initial” means?
1: of or relating to the beginning : incipient <his initial reaction>
2: placed at the beginning : first <the initial word of the verse>
Do you see Total Survivability anywhere in the post?
Yes I know what a bunker is, and that only works in organized groups where the rest of the team are focusing on their targets.
Regen Warriors, for example, play with their kitten all match and if you focus on killing the rest of their teammates, like smart people do, they are useless.
The scoring is based on what you get for choosing the class in terms of free armor and health. It does not mean that Warrior > Guardian > Ele or w/e you read it as incorrectly
Some objective information about direct damage for some productive discussion about how to build better:
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/37607-attack-vs-precision/#entry1464490
I just did some translation of this into PvP amulet to trait practical use:
If you take a Berserker Amulet w/ a Valkyrie Jewel, put 30 points into Crit Damage, all you need is 10 points into your first trait line to satisfy the ideal ratio of power and precision, with a surplus of about 200 precision actually. From there you can actually build defensively so that you can handle more abuse in 1v1s with 30 points into toughness, vit, and use whatever defensive runes you want to hold up in tougher situations…
I’ll check this out when I come back that was a really really interesting post.
(edited by jmatb.6307)
I agree with your list.
It’s rare but if there are no condi dmg dealers on their team and they have warrior spam, I’ve found that old school D/D Ele with 0/10/0/30/30 can handle anybody and not give up the point. Stun lock Warrior doesn’t really take it down with that massive sustain, protection, and using Shocking Aura when their stab is down.
Mesmer/Ele/Thief tend to shine a lot more in organized play than in solo queue though
Cheese is a funny word. I used to use it. A better way to say that is “better than my build” LOL.
I’m pretty sure people are gonna say that a lot to me. All I’m gonna say back is, “How does my cheese taste?!”
Nah I’m not an Anet Dev and if I was I doubt they’d let any of them get away with calling out 75% of the forums LMAO
Thread’s still going because people are dealing with the truth about competitive games – Herman Edwards quote: “You play to win the game!”
Some people get it, like BurrTheKing, Chukree, Hackks, and Brew Pinch. Like I anticipated, I got flamed by a bunch of people who might have learned something from getting an objective view on competition, even though it made them mad. Maybe they didn’kittens okay if they don’t they’ll just be cannon fodder for me and others haha
Another quote: "The truth will set you free, but first it will kitten you off.” Gloria Steinem
Very well said, BurrTheKing btw thats the stuff winners are made of
That might be the worst use of Wilderness Survival I’ve seen in a long time, sorry man.
Falling damage is a WvW trait. Empathic Bond helps a lot more than that overall because you can expect Necros to flood you with condis. The stealth on CC actually hurts your ability to defend a point, which is what a Ranger does best. Vigor on heal is a lot better than all three of your choices put together, especially with Healing Spring. Shared Anguish is better too
I can appreciate running power on spirit ranger, but not with those weapons. You’re much, much better off with Greatsword in that build, rather than Shortbow. Maul already does pretty good damage and it scales well with 3.1k attack, plus you can kick people off the point, move around faster, etc. You can also do sword/warhorn for more fury to add with your marks trait.
Where is your wolf? The fear pet is the best one by far.
If I take a Zerker Hammer/Mace/Shield 0/10/30/0/30 Warrior build vs. that you wouldn’t have a chance.
depends if they’re good, but even if they are here’s something I put together:
Initial Defense Rating (IDR)
A class’ starting armor and health levels get a 1-3 score. Each class’ rating is a combination of the values of their armor and health.
6 (3A, 3H)- Warrior
4 (3A, 1H)- Guardian
4 (1A, 3H)- Necromancer
4 (2A, 2H)- Ranger
4 (2A, 2H)- Engineer
3 (1A, 2H)- Mesmer
3 (2A, 1H)- Thief
2 (1A, 1H)- ElementalistBased on this a Warrior is always going to start with more survivability than any other class, there are four classes with good survival, while Thief, Mesmer, and Ele have the lowest. To me in solo Q, where nobody is communicating effectively, doesn’t it make more sense to bring the 4 and above IDR classes than the lowest?
The difference between light and heavy is 300 toughness. That is a completely useless chart, and it doesn’t take into account actual class abilities. Were warriors the most tanky class 6 months ago? Nope, they were probably in the bottom three squishiest. BUT TOP ARMOR GUYS
That was when Warriors had terrible sustain and no amount of healing power helped with that. It’s late 2013 now lol
300 toughness does make a difference. The strong LB/Hammer warrior build has about 2.5k armor with only 1381 toughness, with zerker ammy. That’s really strong vs. direct damage builds, considering that you match their dmg output with much more defense.
The little things add up…
depends if they’re good, but even if they are here’s something I put together:
Initial Defense Rating (IDR)
A class’ starting armor and health levels get a 1-3 score. Each class’ rating is a combination of the values of their armor and health.
6 (3A, 3H)- Warrior
4 (3A, 1H)- Guardian
4 (1A, 3H)- Necromancer
4 (2A, 2H)- Ranger
4 (2A, 2H)- Engineer
3 (1A, 2H)- Mesmer
3 (2A, 1H)- Thief
2 (1A, 1H)- ElementalistBased on this a Warrior is always going to start with more survivability than any other class, there are four classes with good survival, while Thief, Mesmer, and Ele have the lowest. To me in solo Q, where nobody is communicating effectively, doesn’t it make more sense to bring the 4 and above IDR classes than the lowest?
This is innacurate. Survivability is maybe 10% vit, 20% toughness, 30% boon spam (prot vigour regen) and 40% sustain. Your chart is only taking into account a small part of what “survivability” is. Besides it also assumes that everyone runs around with no amulet and no traits.
This chart goes over initial defense you get for free just for choosing the class. I know you get more survival from vigor, prot, high healing/second, etc. but the free armor and health you get from choosing a class isn’t insignificant. 100/300 extra armor and/or 4000/7000 health don’t matter? lol
In solo queue, you’re not getting coordinated team play so its more effective to pick classes that have better base values imo
(edited by jmatb.6307)
I’m pretty sure you haven’t been playing good warriors if you’re a Ranger main and you think that.
I can see a Mace/Shield Hammer Warrior build dominating whatever a Ranger tries to do
Nope you concluded that. I guess you missed the people who agreed with that, and cannot account for anybody who read it and agreed with the statement.
Your opinion is… interesting
Its hard to figure out why you’re even posting on the PvP forum if you don’t play it lol. You obviously aren’t competitive so why try to pick apart what I’m saying when you find no value from competition in this game?
depends if they’re good, but even if they are here’s something I put together:
Initial Defense Rating (IDR)
A class’ starting armor and health levels get a 1-3 score. Each class’ rating is a combination of the values of their armor and health.
6 (3A, 3H)- Warrior
4 (3A, 1H)- Guardian
4 (1A, 3H)- Necromancer
4 (2A, 2H)- Ranger
4 (2A, 2H)- Engineer
3 (1A, 2H)- Mesmer
3 (2A, 1H)- Thief
2 (1A, 1H)- Elementalist
Based on this a Warrior is always going to start with more survivability than any other class, there are four classes with good survival, while Thief, Mesmer, and Ele have the lowest. To me in solo Q, where nobody is communicating effectively, doesn’t it make more sense to bring the 4 and above IDR classes than the lowest?
If a build does not win 1v1s against strong opponents or help quickly conclude teamfights in your team’s favor, why run it?
I look at running heavy zerker builds on those three classes like this – you’re a closer not a dueler. If you’re trying to 1v1 people then you’re going to be at a disadvantage more often than not.
You gotta fight dirty as a high risk DPS
Guys, Warrior is the best 1v1 class in the game. Either gang up on him or avoid the fight and kill their teammates….
Thief, ele, and mesmer start with lower overall armor and health than the other classes. In solo q, communication is nonexistent so you’re better off bringing a warrior, ranger, engineer, guardian, or necromancer because all those classes start with more survivability.
In team arena, it’s assumed you go in with VOIP and teammates you know and respect. You have more freedom there because you can peel for each other, call out when you go down so you can use res skills, etc. Obviously, Denial didn’t have a problem with a Thief and Mesmer on their team.
Point is – you want to use classes that are inherently harder to kill in solo Q
LOL i’m not angry I’ve moved past that. You, Cutepics, however, are intent on trying to prove that I am and it’s well, cute.
Cool story sis. Define constructive answer and explain how ethics help you win games and I’ll be impressed. Maybe I’ll tip you two gold too
Don’t get me wrong I acknowledge how strong Ranger is and plan on running it in any queue that doesn’t have a Ranger on the team.
I respect its effectiveness, but it’s hard to argue that people like Rangers. I mean, the map chat spam in matches, forums, and HotM chat tells you what people think of Rangers lol
(edited by jmatb.6307)