Guild Wars 2

How does aggressive = 5 glass cannons…

Obviously you want some support for team fights nobody runs 5 glass cannons for that reason.

Killing in conquest is really important, people that build bunkery and sit on a point waiting to die are liabilities.

Ex. what diff does it make if you can eat a ton of dmg if a bomb engi is just going to light you on fire with his bombs. Let him neut or cap the point, but build so that you can kill him! That is taking a step back to take a couple steps forward.

If you do the math killing the other team 4 times per person ends up netting (4*5*5) = 100 points. That’s two Niflhel bosses, but the advantage to that ends up snowballing b/c they aren’t going to stop you from getting secondary objectives or hold points effectively while short handed the whole game.

Building to survive in Conquest is stupid – building to kill ends up getting you the win. Car Crash understands this and that’s why they were rolling over people throughout the EU Invitational tournament.

So all the naysayers whining that Conquest is for bad players who can’t play right, come win an organized tourney with an aggressive build and actually prove yourself

That was in team queues tho.. usually you’ll get people who are at least in TS, which is a lot better than solo Q.

+1 to apt for that build.

Also, guys push your limits on your class. If you can run really hard builds well you’re going to see a huge difference in your skill level.

Mesmer is fine, even now

helseth’s doing portal, blink, null field I think that was the other mes

team pugging is doing pretty well for being stuck with one

still, when the cap is reached anything they put on is wasted. so if you have an bomb engi w/ incendiary powder, dumbfire necro, and ranger w/ torch and sun spirit in the team fight they will put a bunch of burning on but their stacks far exceed the cap.

While they can reapply them effortlessly, they’d be better off stacking bleeds rather than burning and poison b/c you will always get a return on bleeds and confusion you put on. People won’t really realize that right away and they’ll stop using condis when they can’t put 12 stacks of 30s burning on people anymore

Also the Halting Strike build is very strong vs. quite a few builds even now

You can run other classes with burst. The other day they were streaming an Ele, Thief, and Power Necro comp on GW2PVPTV that was wreckin hard.

If the condi duration stacking cap goes in, then too many people will not know how to effectively team fight with conditions to prevent mesmer from coming back.

They’re gonna take the same faceroll builds into teamfights and waste all their burning and poison stacks, lose a huge amt of damage, and then give up on condis.

Mesmer benefits from that in two ways – confusion will become 10x more valuable b/c of how burning and poison will cap in condi builds, and obviously if people play power classes more Mesmers will be more dominant like the old days.

hahahahahahaha ranger weakest class

hahahahahahaha

if you read them you’d see the nerfs all over the place for spamming and AoE

CC won’t be as bad when paralyzation is nerfed. Getting another entire second to CC from the sigil makes an enormous difference

You don’t know how conditions work if you are saying that Daecollo.

The duration stacking is HUGE.

How people don’t see that baffles me. Targeting improvement too….

Dardamaniac.1295:

jmatb.6307:

The duration stacking is a game changer for sure. I could be wrong, but if there’s a max stack that might mean you have to wait until the 5 stacks are done before reapplying.

I could be wrong tho

And what?Im gonna do burn skills and i will see 0 dmg?

No lol.

That would mean that once burning reaches a certain point of duration anything else that gets stacked is wasted. So instead of 40 s of burning, there could be, say, 16.

If the Sun Spirit is still up then its procs do nothing. This caps the amount of total damage you can get from burning and makes it a bad idea to apply too much burning, because you get no return from it.

Condi builds would then shift from trying to stack burning to stacking bleeds, since poison and burn will be easy as hell to cap.

The duration stacking is a game changer for sure. I could be wrong, but if there’s a max stack that might mean you have to wait until the 5 stacks are done before reapplying.

I could be wrong tho

Even if it doesn’t the AOE condi spam got nerfed hard if this is the case. I remember the burning from a teamfight stacking up to 40 seconds with two spirit rangers and a necro. Now that would be capped.

Also, the burn on crit traits do not stack together as effectively as before. Dhuumfire, Incendiary Powder, and Sun Spirit become inefficient, just like trying to put more bleeds on a 25 stacked target

burning being held to 5 stacks is huge. immob can stack now though so that might be an issue

Ele got buffed quite a bit… Lightning Hammer (laugh all you want) is going to be vicious 1v1 against anybody with weak CC defense. Staff Ele heals are back big time. Lava Axe = HGH Ele.

I think the following will explain how the game works

Condi > Burst > CC > Condi

When you build for Condi you’re gonna be strong vs. Burst because you can stack defensive attributes and offensive attributes simultaneously. That lets you extend the fight, which is catastrophic for teams that want to kill fast. Ele and Mesmer were taken out of the meta because of this.

CC counters Condi though, because Engineers, Rangers, and Necros that want maximum pressure are going to sacrifice stun breaks to do so. You beat them by taking control of their character away from them. This is why Warrior is so prevalent, as well as Halting Strike Mesmer, Warhorn on Necro, Focus on Ele, etc.

Burst, however, obliterates a CC comp because the timing you need is disrupted by Ele, Mesmer, and Thief’s blinks, immunity, stealth, range, etc. Necros and Engis are easy targets for CC because their protections are all temporary and their positioning is limited. Those classes do not have that problem. You’re chasing as CC against this team and they have so much damage that you’re not likely to survive getting to the CC.

This is the Rock, Paper, Scissors of GW2 now. Is that good for the game?

I’d say it’s a lot better than the dominance of any one of them alone. Power Meta created the Necro and Warrior irrelevance. Condi Meta created the Ele and Mesmer irrelevance. Control Meta is showing how all the classes can be effective against opportune matchups.

CC is a lethal problem for Necros and Engineers, which is fine considering the insane damage they’re capable of.

Can you imagine what would happen if Necro got an 8s stab cooldown? How much condi pressure that class would be pumping out? What about Double Kit Engi with an 8s stab elixir?

CC was not a problem in the previous metas because nobody was running classes that were easy to pin down. Ele and Mesmer have blinks and immunity cooldowns with ranged damage. Stun locking that is nowhere near as easy as it is on a Necro or Engi.

I think CC is fine as is. People are running greedy builds that don’t protect themselves against it and getting stomped by it. That’s what happens… if you don’t like being countered you don’t really want balance you want to win without a challenge.

I doubt that Warriors will dominate the next meta. Ele, Thief and Mesmer are way too slippery for them.

If they pull off the shaving strategy and don’t buff survival too much, I can see the GW2 PvP power spectrum as such.

Burst < Condi < CC < Burst

Conditions do more damage overall than Burst. Condition classes keep their damage and can stack toughness with Rabid and Shaman amulets. They extend the fight, which is catastrophic for Burst. That is what led to the summer meta.

Condi is weak to CC builds, like a Warrior-Necro/Mesmer-Thief build, because in order to get the best damage Condi classes have to give up CC defense. Corruptions, Double Kits, Spirit Rangers, etc. This is what Car Crash did and is what we’ve learned from the summer meta. Even when Paralyzation is fixed, these comps are not going to be strong vs. CC comps.

CC builds, however, don’t do well when their targets are not easy to target. Eles, Mesmer, and Thieves are the most slippery classes in the game. CC is timing oriented, and they have Z axis mobility, stealth, and immunity to counter you. This is what will happen if Necro is shaved and paralyzation runes aren’t bugged anymore.

I could be wrong, but we’ll see. I’m trying to not get too optimistic but that possibility is pretty exciting.

Making % damage skills in PvP would be a lot better than adjusting base values IMO.

There are too many variables when you play around with base damage that can make the buffs stupidly good or make the skill entirely useless. % damage hurts, it’s reliable, and it can be tweaked very easily without getting into a mess

I agree gareth. New could mean anything with how vague those kinds of hints are.

If they make a % tweak to damage stats while also slightly nerfing healing power, then I think it would be great for the game. Nobody wants a bunker meta, but at the same time there is too much damage, especially from condi damage.

Retal is something you don’t want to be strong in PvP

Trust me. If you thought AI builds were bad…

There are too many hard counters to them right now. S/D thief crushes them and Necro put too many condis on them.

Those culprits are getting shaved a bit so the matchup should be more fair, but we’ll see

I’m interested and skeptical on amulets…

Ya Necros can build to put 10 total condis on people pretty easily, half of which do damage.

Automated Response is only good in the hands of a decent Engi and against a team stupid enough to go all condis. It does not make you god mode. Its actually worthless against a burst team.

Cheesy stuff does need to be there for noobs, but when it is the best build for a class and requires a total change in tactics that’s a serious problem in competitive play.

Ya that’s a pretty safe build to go for with Evasive Arcana and Cleansing Water.

I like Rock Solid a lot and I think Arcane Wave can actually increase survivability a bit more with Water Field blasts, as well as stack swiftness for teammates, might, etc on a 24s cooldown.

Ya the combo fields are a very underrated part of the staff. You get 4 combo fields in a teamfight you have so much utility if you teammates take advantage of them.

Warrior needs tweaking. Not much but they do need a bit of tweaking.

Zerker stance could be 6s instead of 8s. Even then that’s a cheesy skill. Healing Signet and any passive+active needs to be better used than left alone.

Engi and Necro have really bad CC defense by design and it shows in that matchup. Some of it is their build choice, but I’ve been on the receiving end of enough paralyzation stunlocks to see that it’s a joke, even if you have decently high stab uptime classes.

Slightly nerfing zerker stance & healing signet is the best way to deal with Warrior. Tankiness in Zerker Ammy is absolutely ridiculous.

Eurantien.4632:

Azunai.5974:

Eurantien.4632:

I’ve seen cleric staff eles push far node and decap anything and then not die to anything 1 v 1.

Haha, made me laugh. +1 for the joke!

Lol figured that would be the response. It’s happened. I’ve tried it and it sure isn’t easy but it can be done.

I can see that working. Condi classes actually have a lot of trouble 1v1 vs. Staff Ele because of the water fields, Ether Renewal, and Rock Solid. I’ve been thinking about running a 0/0/20/30/20 build with Blasting Staff, Rock Solid, and Cleansing Water for support/condi 1v1s.

Ranger isn’t going anywhere. You don’t have to run all spirits to make use of the build. There are plenty of other options for Ranger utilities.

Ranger is still the best 1v1 class in the game in a competitive match.

Don’t know why I keep posting that in this thread when people that obviously have no idea how the class works keep whining, but there’s the GW2 forums for you.

Deimos the game format is fine, but the lack of diversity in classes in roles is not.

We gotta stay with the one game mode until more people play it or the already tiny pvp scene will be split too much

Jon Peters just said in the GW2PVPTV stream that staff ele is getting some love, so I am not sure exactly what they’re buffing, but he did mention support so I think staff ele will be more interesting, if not viable

I think it would be good for the game for Guardians to have competition for that spot. I’m thinking maybe Water field finishers could get a bonus, like how Fire fields can in the Fire tree

So with the balance patch coming up Oct. 1 I have an idea for ele that might be interesting.

Why not make Staff Ele a viable bunker at mid as an alternative to Guardian?

Team Stability on Earth Attunement – 20 earth
Cleansing Water & Wave – condi removal to group
Blasting Staff – giant combo fields to execute finishers in and huge Water 5

The only thing that’s missing is a bit more group utility. I’m not really sure what to do for that so what would you guys think would make Staff Ele viable at mid bunker without breaking it and replacing Guards?

class identification is silly anyway. why run a subpar class for dungeons if Ranger is weak there?

i don’t pve at all but in pvp if you run a class that creates a bad matchup you’re a liability to the team. why is that any different in any other game mode? its just common sense

Ranger QQ is so embarrassingly bad. Wilderness Survival and how many condis rangers stack with Shaman Amulet is so strong 1v1 is hilarious with all that utility and endurance.

Seriously dude… that class is never going to be on the bench. Ever.

Rangers are fine

Healing Signet could use a 50 health/second nerf. I think that would make it more balanced.

Its a good noob skill but it has no business being more effective than skills you have to actually use.

If they handle this patch right, then all 8 classes can have a place on a team. That would be a major first in this game, competitively.

Teams would then be deciding who to bring based on synergy rather than whether or not the entire class is viable.

Viability in this game has been whether or not it is overpowered for so long. If there is an even playing field then I think that will make GW2 PvP much, much better than it has been.

lolwut

They might be neglected in the other game modes, but in PvP you are the master class.

Spirit Rangers are still strong. If you want to run the build it will still work, but keep in mind that if you don’t position your elite well smart teams will interrupt it.

To be honest, you’re actually a bit stronger as a Spirit Ranger b/c if they kill your spirits early on in the fight you have better uptime than before with a 25 s cooldown instead of 60s. If they wait on attacking them you get to use them more and keep the bonus burning + prot.

The petting zoo is still open for business

Ya Spirit Ranger is more micro oriented now. Do I want to use this spirit right now or should I save it for a bit until I know they’re not gonna be able to burst it?

Rolling into a teamfight with your zootourage should be a stupid decision, and now it is. A PATIENT spirit ranger can summon them up after a bit and still get the benefit of them without completely giving away that he is in fact a spirit ranger at the start of the match

JonathanSharp.7094:

Thanks guys!

We’re being very mindful about the way the Sigil of Para fix will hit Warriors. We’ve already got another balance patch brewing, and we’re being very careful to watch all the classes and see how they feel after we shave down the condition spam classes slightly.

As others have said, once we bring down the conditions that “hold down” some of the physical based classes, they will feel stronger. We’re aware of that!

Thanks again for the feedback!

Condi spam is being brought in line

Furajir Eles and Mesmers lolstomp Warriors 1v1 if they have any idea what they’re doing.

The return on spirits is such that they deserve a cooldown. Their actives can be used potentially three times, twice while up, and when they die.

How is that not powerful as is?

/facepalm

Wombat.3510:

jmatb.6307:

That depends on how they position and the matchup.

If the number of builds that are overpowered are decreased does that not increase the range of builds? Is it really that bad to have to consider other options based on your team’s needs and the matchup?

I suppose if a ranger positions himself at range and uses his LB, the spirits would have a better chance to survive – assuming nobody thinks to kill them. At that point, what are they really adding to the team fight?

What we do know is that rangers having more evades and stun breaks again will surely make some builds obsolete. In any event, we know it eliminated one build for sure.

In the end, I think it’s a little naive to think that there won’t be consequences for completely eliminating a popular build. The way this nerf went down can only be bad for the game.

Necros attack from range. Rangers attack from range. SB and Axe/Torch with a Necro lets them stay together at range.

Warriors do a lot of damage to them through CC, but that depends on how the Ranger and Necro build. We saw what happens when you have too little defense against stuns in the Finals in small engagements, but SYNC was competitive in the last match because they are very strong in teamfights. Zombify + Spirit Ranger = carnage lol

The consequence is that Rangers will probably in the short term use more BM and Trap builds. They still work. Spirits will be seen as “not viable” until teams start thinking about more just the previous metagame.

Other things to consider – the spirits still proc their on-death effects. The burst from storm spirit is still NUTS. Frost Spirit has a pretty strong damage boost throughout the fight. Perhaps people can adapt spirits to be more of a power build – I can tell you that I would like a Ranger teammate as a Warrior / Thief / Mesmer that has Frost Spirit up.

Swiftness and 10% extra damage for burst classes is pretty powerful. Even if the spirits are targeted, how does Ranger not help an opening teamfight with an S/F Ele and Shatter Mesmer with those spirits?

For real, Ethics…

Rangers have some of the best combo field synergy in the game. They can have 2189 toughness, 1236 condi dmg, and 644 healing power base with the right amulet, runes, and traits. Anybody who runs Shamans, Undead, and 30 WS already has a good build the rest is customizable based on role.

Ranger is fine lol

I think that will take care of itself.

Eles and Mesmers don’t have as much trouble against Warriors as Necros, Engis, and Rangers because they have invuln and blink mechanics that let them kite the Warrior.

Range is always going to be an issue with Warrior, which those classes have much better options for.

I like where Warrior is – they crush greedy condi builds but are able to be kited and bursted from a distance.

S/D thief is more of a problem than Warrior