Guild Wars 2

There really isn’t any point in complaining about or playing this game’s PvP with any serious intention.

Anet didn’t design the game thinking about what it’s like to fight against their classes. They just made what they thought was cool and that approach works for PvE and WvW.

PvP has to be committed to for it to work, and that means every tiny little detail of every skill and build. You can’t do that in this game without breaking everything else or splitting the game’s mechanics.

GW2 PvP just a minigame. Get over it. If you guys want to play real PvP play LoL, Dota, Gunz 2, SC2, etc..

This feature build isn’t going to change the foundation of the classes.

Necros will still flood the screen with puke.
Mesmers will still go invisible and let AIs and Condis do all the work for them.
Thieves will still not have cooldowns.
Warriors will still have way too high a starting value.
Guardians will still be requisite for any legitimate conquest team.
Rangers will still be a brainless class.
Engis will still be the self-proclaimed “leet skillz” class that isn’t anything more than a spammer.
Finally, Ele will still be the only class that challenges players to learn and will never be allowed to be on top again because the legitimately good players will just dominate everyone with it.

The simplest solution is always the best. Make the points bigger.

If Decap Engi is so strong, then it would be inefficient to remove KBs and cooldowns, but if points were bigger then only a good Decap Engi taking advantage of a noob could own a point like that can now.

It’s been suggested for months that points should be bigger so that challenging them should be more about combat strength than your build’s CC.

Maybe if the Devs were reading intelligent suggestions instead of the ones with the most responses they would have figured this out.

Dev says
“Saying we don’t care isn’t just wrong, it shuts down and discourages dialog between developers and players.”

What about doublespeak and canned corporate PR responses? You can’t have a conversation with someone when you ask a question and they don’t answer it, answer it with another question, or ban the forum user for “not being constructive.”

Adding more skills to a trait system that has been entirely broken since Day 1, when every meta has been getting worse, shows that the Skills and Combat team needs a new name of Incompetence and Cheese team.

They take the lazy way out with everything. Necro not up to par? Throw a passive burn on their crits. Warrior not up to par? Double their passive heal.

Now the brilliant plan to fix all this is to throw wads of new stuff at the system. These new traits don’t even include the new sigil system that the illustrious balance masters have obviously screwed up already because they are clueless. It’s like having a completely cluttered garage where everything is out of place and then throwing a crate of used parts all over the floor.

You guys have no hope of fixing this game’s PvP and have made it clear, intentionally or not, that you don’t give a kitten about it.

I am 100% convinced at this point that Anet has no idea how to fix the PvP problems without poking the cash cow too hard, so they’ve literally thrown in the towel.

Sorry folks, if you like challenging, skill oriented, PvP find another game. Nothing like that here.

They. Don’t. Care. About. PvP. Only. Players.

/thread

All I did reading that article is lol

Guys this is a PvE WvW game. Period

Not like the class required any skill to play anyway. It’s been one stupid build after another…

Oh Wait.

THAT’S ALL THE CLASSES

LOLOLOLOL

News Flash

Fanboys, GW2 is nowhere near as good as it gets.

Their story is terrible. SWTOR’s 1-50 class stories roflstomp the crap out of GW2. FFXIV and WoW are also better by far.

Their PvP is terrible. MOBAs are the best, Smite, SWTOR, FFXIV, WoW are better.

Their PvE is terrible. FFXIV, WoW, SWTOR, even Rift is better.

Their RvR still doesn’t hold a candle to Dark Age of Camelot.

Their Event system is buggy and terrible. FFXIV does it better, way better.

You paid 50 bucks one time for the game.

You get what you pay for.

Edit: only reason I post on the forums is because I was lied to and want to help the ignorant mass of people who play this game find a real one that is worth the only thing we run out of – time.

If the recent Ready Up is any indication, they seem to be moving toward making the skill required to be effective more important on every class.

If they stick to their guns on that, I might come back to the game.

Dhuumfire Necro requires the attention span of a fish and the reaction speed of a turtle. Anything to make that joke of a build more difficult to play is a good step forward for the game.

I doubt that Necro will be “unplayable” after that change with the sigils and rune changes they’re making simultaneously. I guess the run on sentence expert of the English language didn’t bother to think past the part he got offended by.

Perma dodging is stupid, and I’m not sold that the Mesmer is being ripped off.

How is it a bad thing to establish a ground rule that if you have all your illusions up that you don’t get anything from DE?

If anything that encourages the Mesmer players to pay attention more, not reward them for wasting clones. Clone on Death should be a defensive mechanism, not an offensive one.

There’s nothing wrong with having to wait until one of your clones die before dodging. Vigor is the best boon in the game, and only spending 5 points to get perma dodging, especially since Zerker gives around 40% crit chance by itself, is pretty stupid.

I’m actually somewhat encouraged by the most recent cast b/c Peters was talking about wanting skill to be more of an emphasis. It seems like they’re moving away from the “some eles just stay in one attunement” casual babysitting mentality.

Guys you signed up to play Guild Wars 2, and this is what you get.

AI mechanics are part of their game design, either stack up on AoE or don’t fight the guy 1v1.

So I have an idea to throw out there about how to reduce the bureaucratic mess that is character building in all three gamemodes and make the game competitively deep, not bloated.

Stay tuned

Arganthium.5638:

jmatb.6307:

Don’t worry Swagg, this is good stuff. Smart, comprehensive suggestions go way over the average forum troll’s head

You’re one to talk, given the outcome of our last discussion. At least have the respect to contribute something rather than continue trying to flame me.

Uh wasn’t talking only about you, but whatever.

Not much to contribute as far as I can tell, rather than simply giving him a thumbs up for doing a great job addressing some of the more stupid elements of this game.

Don’t worry Swagg, this is good stuff. Smart, comprehensive suggestions go way over the average forum troll’s head

Guys it’s Guild Wars 2. That’s part of the package – they built the game to allow players to surround themselves with AIs and rely on that.

If you want to play a game where AIs don’t exist and your skill matters, other games are out there.

If you’re so casual and, by definition, do not play the game all that much and have other things to do, why is it every time I look at the PvP forums you’re posting in every thread?

I don’t blame anybody who calls you a troll for doing so, I find most of your posts ridiculous.

The max direct damage approach with Berserker, 50-60% crit dmg, low survival approach has its place and always will, especially with Thieves and Mesmers. They aren’t supposed to be duelists, they come in and blow up focused targets and decap points. They make sense in a team composition because they can lower the TTK for a team and in small engagements if they can keep out of the fire themselves.

It does present an argument, however, of what a high power, medium condition damage build could do. Everyone knows what purely condition based damage can do on a variety of classes, but what if precision and crit dmg was abandoned in favor of around 600-700 condition damage and might stacking?

Example build I threw together:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQNAT8cjkOxwpQuQMxBEUhv48IJWimI9QMGQzA-ToAA1CuI0SplTLjWStsaNEZJC

Power alone is a sure thing, as is condition damage when you have regular application of at least a couple damaging conditions you protect with cripples, chills, etc.

Arganthium you’re right about how power is better alone vs. other stats and economically it makes sense to consider alternatives to max direct damage for the rest of the team. One super bursty guy is all you’re gonna need.

Everyone else’s builds are the bigger question – condi vs. more burst vs. this class vs. that class etc. etc.

Arganthium.5638:

jmatb.6307:

snip

snip

What I got out of this is that you’re only looking at the relationship between precision and power, not the relationship of all three together

When your crit damage multiplier is at least 50%, the damage output of every combination of power and precision is increased considerably vs. having 0% crit multiplier.

This chart is explained more on Arcturus’ post on the first page on this thread: http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/37607-attack-vs-precision/

It shows that crit damage increases average damage at the highest levels when there is a combination of power and precision and at 50-60% crit damage.

Your argument that power alone gets the job done is shown on the graph on the right side. The “extra power” measurement is a combination of prec/power and on that side is where there is no precision and maximum power. It is lower than the combination of the two in average damage because it has hit the peak of its output, whereas the crit multiplier has taken the damage past that point with optimal combinations.

What reputation? You’re the calculator guy that doesn’t even know the right math.

Its pretty simple if you have played any other MMO that uses crit damage multipliers. Every single measure of different ratings and their output to overall damage points to crit dmg multipliers providing the most. Linear increases are only decent unless you can guarantee crits and you crank out crit multipliers.

It’s not a dogma it’s a fundamental mathematical fact about critical hits and multipliers. We’re not talking religion here this is damage formulas and math. I’m the cynical philosophy major you’re supposed to be correcting me, not the other way around LOL

This is why no power necro in their right mind would put 30 points into Curses – they get 50% crit chance from DS (LOL) so it makes sense to just put the rest into Spite. The damage goes up more that way than the 300 precision.

This is especially true in Guild Wars 2 because it’s so easy to get a high crit chance. The damage just flies off the charts with a zerker ammy and 30 CS, just like it does on Soul Reaping for Necro, Discipline for Warrior, list goes on. Eurantien’s 30/30/10 build on Ranger does crazy damage because of this damage scaling as well, with another 300 power and 100 condition damage to boot.

When you only use Power as your entire source of damage, it is so easy to mitigate so the pressure becomes very weak. Anyone who has personal or group protection proc makes your already average damage drop down to worthless.

Your build is only going to be good 1v1 against squishies that have no armor and shouldn’t be 1v1ing you anyway. How is that going to beat a Rabid Engi or Necro build? How about a Settler’s Ranger build, BM or Spirit?

When you roll into a fight with that kind of awful damage you aren’t pressuring your opponent, so what do you bring to teamfights?

It’s just a bad build with a deep-rooted misunderstanding about how damage works

No hard feelings that’s just the truth /shrug

Because being a “famous” S/D player makes you an authority?

lol your build didn’t even put crit damage on a direct damage build through traits. No precision. I looked at that build you posted and it is so incredibly bad.

You act like you’re supposed to be important when all you’ve ever been in the GW2 PvP scene is a guy who piggybacked off of Jumper’s build, tried to convince people that your build was better, and are apparently depressed that Anet finally realized they screwed up with making S/D what it became.

Let it go.

Sarrs.4831:

jmatb.6307:

Pets and AIs ruin any chance of balance. This is something that will plague GW2, Wildstar, and has plagued WoW with Hunters and Warlocks.

When you add extra targets on the field it creates more of a need for AoE. Imagine focus fire single target coordination with AoE being used opportunistically, like if they’re running a melee comp and you know you can nail them when they focus a target.

That’s what it’s like in 4v4 Arenas in SWTOR. There are no AIs, you have to know your class inside out and hit your skills at the right time to win them. There are some strong builds that people QQ about, but they are easily countered because the game is balanced enough to be self-regulating.

They gave up on Conquest maps and focused on small scale deathmatches. It works because everything is counterable. Stealth can be detected actively and passively at cost. Ranged DPS have to know how to kite to survive, and Melee DPS have to use their anti-CC cooldowns and very short immunities if they want to not be kited. Healers have to position themselves well, and Tanks can guard high priority targets and have to adjust when someone is focused.

It’s such a well designed 4v4 system and what kills me is that’s not possible in GW2.

Too much AI, no diminishing returns on stats, too easy to make OP builds, and way too much prevalence of AoE vs. single target.

It’s sad

That’s not perfectly balanced either, though. Aren’t Sorcerors still rubbish?

Perfect balance is completely unattainable, and it shouldn’t be looked at as the optimal state for the game. Fun should be the ultimate goal. Balance is a component in that, but a perfectly balanced game has every opportunity to not actually be fun.

Madness/Balance works pretty well. Most of the forum QQ on the tor forums is made by the truly ignorant and godawful, a coordinated group that knows how to peel will keep TK/Lightning and Healer Sage/Sorcs or on their feet.

I’ve noticed that after playing Gunslinger for a while, most of the opinions about balance in that game’s community really shows how terrible they are. In that sense, GW2 actually helped me because you have to be so much better to beat the cheese in this game with non-cheese builds. That carried over to TOR and I consistently rank tops in DPS and medals on a class that “is unplayable in PvP”

Difference is, I can make about 50k credits a day playing PvP only, trick out my dude to look awesome, get in faster matches with Arenas (they take about 5 min tops), and never have to fight a cheese build again.

Pets and AIs ruin any chance of balance. This is something that will plague GW2, Wildstar, and has plagued WoW with Hunters and Warlocks.

When you add extra targets on the field it creates more of a need for AoE. Imagine focus fire single target coordination with AoE being used opportunistically, like if they’re running a melee comp and you know you can nail them when they focus a target.

That’s what it’s like in 4v4 Arenas in SWTOR. There are no AIs, you have to know your class inside out and hit your skills at the right time to win them. There are some strong builds that people QQ about, but they are easily countered because the game is balanced enough to be self-regulating.

They gave up on Conquest maps and focused on small scale deathmatches. It works because everything is counterable. Stealth can be detected actively and passively at cost. Ranged DPS have to know how to kite to survive, and Melee DPS have to use their anti-CC cooldowns and very short immunities if they want to not be kited. Healers have to position themselves well, and Tanks can guard high priority targets and have to adjust when someone is focused.

It’s such a well designed 4v4 system and what kills me is that’s not possible in GW2.

Too much AI, no diminishing returns on stats, too easy to make OP builds, and way too much prevalence of AoE vs. single target.

It’s sad

Phaeton.9582:

jmatb.6307:

Your Offense > Defense bit made me think a bit about how you could run a Bunker Warrior more effectively than this Banner stuff.

Here’s a shout build that might be interesting to try:

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-sB0t;1NKVP0Y4JLVQ0;9;6TT9;418918B3;0UJk6;2ZF18ZF183NV

Hammer and Mace would be effective CC. The group condi cleanse would be pretty nuts, and the weakness would be strong enough to prevent quick ganks. You’d have dodge spam, knockbacks for Kyhlo and point capping.

Lol… That 0/0/30/30/10 warrior….

FYI fast hands is the best trait in the game

Also banners are better because you can go from running no stability to running tons, so shouts would require you to build a comp with others granting the stab, further raising the skill floor.

It’s still not as OP as guard though, and that’s fine.

Fast Hands isn’t really required for a Bunker Warrior. I don’t see the point of giving up Last Stand or Merciless Hammer for faster weapon swaps that don’t proc your sigils. Nobody else has 5s weapon swaps, but no sigils proc with that either.. makes them clunky as hell.

I think if a Shout Warrior and Shout Guardian are on the same team, with the former being more aggressive in build than the Guardian, then you’d have a kitten good team fighting setup. Fury, Prot, Stab, Might all over the place? Yummy.

Ya the more people play broken stuff, the more pressure there is on the developer to tweak it.

This happened in Starcraft really early on – nobody played anything but Zerg because of the early all-in push.

If everyone plays OP stuff then it’ll be obvious that nobody’s really got any other legitimate options or its too easy to win with that strategy.

When people play “what they want to play” and win despite the build’s inferiority and being carried by their teammates, it looks like the game is balanced when it isn’t.

Your Offense > Defense bit made me think a bit about how you could run a Bunker Warrior more effectively than this Banner stuff.

Here’s a shout build that might be interesting to try:

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-sB0t;1NKVP0Y4JLVQ0;9;6TT9;418918B3;0UJk6;2ZF18ZF183NV

Hammer and Mace would be effective CC. The group condi cleanse would be pretty nuts, and the weakness would be strong enough to prevent quick ganks. You’d have dodge spam, knockbacks for Kyhlo and point capping.

Perma regen on Guardian? Which game are you playing b/c there are no perma regen builds on Guardian… yet another goofy post by glaphen

Anyway, I think Bunker Warrior should still be a viable thing, but that something needs to be risky about it.

Maybe banners ought to be targetable or the perma regen trait is replaced by something else

Nothing to see here with the QQ on S/D Thief nerf. It’s balanced now – you can 1v1 with it, decap far really fast, and it still has a huge amount of evades.

It’s hilarious to me how whiny those players are after playing that spec for so long.

going in and out of stealth the whole time doesn’t work against good players. if you’re getting beat by shadow arts thieves now (no infusion of shadow) i don’t know what to tell you besides start learning about the game and not copying and pasting builds Valentin.

Ya GW2 is a perfect example of what happens when you create too many options. All the good stuff gets collected into a Frankenstein monster that destroys everything, and instead of reacting immediately to these monsters, they let them pillage everything for months before nerfing them.

Add that to the arrogance these devs have about their work, like how Skyhammer isn’t a total joke of a map to them or that we “need time to adapt to new changes” that are apparently beyond the scope of our understanding, and you’ve got a weak competitive scene at best.

As a long term suggestion I’d like to throw in a suggestoin:

PvP specific choice of two specializations for each class that accomplish conquest specific roles but are limited in scope, challenging enough to practice, and fit within a bigger puzzle of archetypes that make up team comps.

Some ideas of roles could be:
- Duelist (1v1 guy, backpoint specialist, not very good in team situations)
- Roamer (fast, hits like a truck, but made out of tissue paper)
- Team Support (decent damage and survival, great in teamfights, not good in 1v1s)

These specializations would limit your access to 3 trait lines and give a bonus grandmaster trait choice in each. You could only have 2 of them with the level 80 trait point pool, and those GM traits would be balanced to be a choice that your team needs would determine as the best.

That way you’d be strictly focusing efforts on PvP balance, eliminating the Frankenstein monster balancing issues by narrowing choices while giving them incentive, and shoutcasters could go over builds by calling out their specializations.

Examples of the presentation value of this:

“And now we have Caed, who is an Assassin Thief and probably one of the scariest guys to be flanked by with that playstyle’s damage and speed. He’s good enough with the spec to even 1v1 people playing Duelist sometimes.

Kensuda is a Paragon Guardian, who you’re gonna find in all the big fights helping his team with the support they bring. I don’t think I’ve ever seen him out of position without his teammates, which is exactly how you play the spec.

Bear is a Justice Guardian, and is one of the better Duelist players in NA. He takes the Strength of Balthazar GM trait, which is pretty scary to fight without a friend to help you take him down."

You get the idea. Kind of like advanced classes within the professions that distinguish you.

@ EverythingEnds

I think it’s a great idea because when you think about it, you could have some seriously massive burst with GS and Sword Zerker builds that requires great decision making, timing, and skill to get a return on. If you mess it up you get dumped on by a Warrior, DPS Guard, or any other melee oriented build that outplays you.

Doing that much damage from 1200 range is very easy and effective, which not the kind of gameplay Bear and others want. It’s a very old issue, where back in the day Mesmer would literally stay at range all game, Illusion of Life res and Portal out teammates who need it, and keep the siege cannon running.

That’s why they also bring up the Portal Repair Kit fix, to prevent that old school cheese from coming back and being required to win the third match in organized tourneys.

Obviously I like that change, and hope that explains some of the rationale of it. I’m sure Bear could elaborate further.

While some people are freaking out about how “severe” the changes to “their” class are in the list, I do not think that if they were implemented the game would be so unplayable that people could not put together a working build.

Bear and the others who contributed to this list want a game where the best and people who want to be the best have to earn their place. These changes would start to take low-risk, high-reward stuff out and replace it with a progressively risky mentality to more rewarding builds, like a fighting game.

In that regard, I respect the idea, since I enjoy other MMOs that have a lot more cooldowns to manage, fighting games, RTS, and Moba games a lot more than the way GW2 PvP is and has been.

But at the same time, there aren’t many people who enjoy that kind of stress and competition when they play a video game. These are the people who run stuff like Minion Master, Spirit Ranger, etc. because they don’t want to turn the game into a part time job to be good at.

I support the ideas for sure, but I know that most people are either too selfish with their class’ standing, too ignorant to see the big picture, and too casual to learn about the whole game to value this list enough to support it being implemented.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Arganthium.5638:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Arganthium.5638:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

finally, sPvP will be made so casual friendly by then, the population will be stable and healthy, then they will finally make sPvP esports worthy. yay!

This statement is inherently self-contradictory.

doesn’t matter [snip]

How does it not matter? That was the basis of your argument for saying that appealing to casuals will help promote sPvP turning into an ESport.

a game with low population count will never become esports.

there are still lots of casual players in guild wars 2. but in PvE / WvW.
the first step is to attract those players from PvE / WvW into sPvP. (new rewards)
2nd step is to retain them there. (better rewards)
3rd step, is to train them casuals, so some competitive may be born from casuals (sPvP living stories, seasonal ladders)
etc

Casuals do not become competitive, because they don’t care enough to put in 20-40 hours a week to practice. Your idea that bribing people who don’t take the time to even learn basic damage formulas to transform themselves into competitive teams is… interesting.

There has to be a point to investing that much time into the game, and that means cash prizes, regular sponsored tournaments, and a skills/balance team that is concerned about PvP’s specific needs with a sense of urgency, not four month cycles where the problems are written off as “nobody adapted to the changes, so it’s not our fault.”

I hate to be disappointing in what I’m about to say but the truth is people don’t really want hardcore competition and twitch-based gameplay.

MMOs could tap into the fighting game mentality for pvp, where every move matters and your skill is the only way you’ll win, but that’s not what most people play MMOs for.

It’s too much of a risk to alienate the MM Necro, Spirit Ranger, Hambow, Banner Warrior, Phantasm Mesmer type of players who want to win and to not have to work hard for it.

They want the burden on the best players to overcome the easy builds with their higher tier group play, not a balanced game where everybody in mid and high tier has earned their place.

Fighting games are a good example of what Anet obviously doesn’t want, even though that’s what the best players want. Every tier level in fighting games has increasingly more impressive and skilled players. There are no Spirit Rangers or Hambow builds to carry new or average players and get into that level like in GW2. There are imba or OP characters, but someone brand new will still get demolished by even a mid tier fighting game player.

It still holds true that teams like Good Fights will completely destroy someone copying and pasting meta builds, because they’re just better. They communicate better, know their matchups, the maps, etc. but they will still have a measure of a challenge because the meta builds are, by their nature, strong.

If that’s acceptable to Anet, they’re gonna keep doing it. They want the best players to have to play even more perfectly because even an average team can run meta comps and rotate well enough to upset them if they’re not careful.

The TLDR version and the point is these changes would make GW2 PvP more skill2win than build2win, and approach fighting games’ mentality…

but

Anet would rather have the best players have to be challenged by randoms constantly with easy and strong builds than a game where you know you’re going to have to commit a lot of time to be even halfway decent at.

It’s still completely amazing to me that Healing Signet has not been touched after the video upon video of how broken a full healing power build is with it.

How anyone can actually believe that it’s good for the game for a class to never have to use its heal and pick its nose all match just goes to show you how desperately some players need OP stuff to carry them.

Note: full healing power, no healing power, doesn’t matter the skill doesn’t have to be used at all. That’s just going to create a legion of baddies, just like how S/D thief created its legion of worthless players

Swiftpaw you have to expect several errors in not only judgment but spelling, basic command of the English language, and player skill when getting feedback from the one known as Backpack

Deimos I’m sorry you’re bringing casual opinions to a thread that is meant to improve the competitive state of PvP, not the hotjoin and Solo Q environment that you are quite familiar with. Also, anybody who thinks Thief is a dead class is quite misinformed to put it very lightly.

I totally agree that AoE needs to be much less important to the outcome of fights and ought to just be what you use to take out minions/spirits/crutches.

The Portal repair cheese has long been a problem on Kyhlo and will become so even more now that Mesmer isn’t a waste of a roster spot.

The charged skill idea got me brainstorming actually and wanted to throw some skills in that would be epic if it got those effects.

Warrior

Bull’s Charge – the skill has an optional charge up time up to 2 seconds, where a fully charged Bull’s Charge stuns for 3 seconds instead of the base effect. Any charge up less than maximum does not change knock down effect.

Ranger

Whirling Defense – the skill has an optional charge up time up to 2 seconds, where a fully charged Whirling Defense’s activation time becomes 2 seconds, down from 5.25 seconds. Any charge up less than maximum does not change the skill’s effect.

Necromancer

Ghastly Claws – the skill has an optional charge up time up to 2 seconds, where a fully charged Ghastly Claws activates in 1 second, rather than its base activation time. Any charge up less than maximum does not change the skill’s effect.

Thief

Dancing Dagger – the skill has an optional charge up time up to 2 seconds, where a fully charged Dancing Dagger hits for 886 base damage instead of its base damage. Any charge up less than maximum does not change the skill’s effect. The charge up cannot be executed in stealth. (Risk-Reward. A burst thief that spends 2 seconds charging up an attack should get a big return on it).

Edit: Bear, I wish you good luck in relations with all these incredibly enlightened and well read intellectuals that compose the Guild Wars 2 PvP forum. The superior brain capacity and understanding of the game must be daunting to contend with.

It’s easy to take the Ele’s health down low enough for your skill-less, braindead condi spam to work, but if someone builds to defend themselves against a condi build expect it to work!

Also, I do not recognize ANY of your account names and none of you Necro apologists are anywhere near top 500 on LB so why should anyone take your opinions seriously?

Chaith.8256:

Josh Davis.6015:

I think Skullcrack is a good place now. Ideally, all of our high impact skills should allow for counter-play via a clearly telegraphed attack animation. It’s something we’re constantly thinking about when we look at existing skills, and doubly so when we brainstorm new ones.

Love you, buddy.

Attack my target! * Calls target on Pin Down, Necro Marks & Scepter *

This post is so full of win.

I over simplified my statement about condis. I meant condi builds.

You can’t get away with going full kitten and do the same 30/20/0/0/20 build in the new balance cycle and expect to compete in 1v1s against Warriors, Eles, and Mesmers. You’ll get trained and deservedly so when you bring barely any defenses or sustain.

Consider running a Dagger/Warhorn as your second set if you want to 1v1 with your precious Scepter/Dagger. Need power damage to get the Ele’s health down, and you can CC them with the longest single daze in the game.

Consider running a power build with Dagger/Focus Staff. Good teamfighter.

Or Axe/Focus Dagger/Warhorn for a Power 1v1 type build.

Necro players are some of the least creative and whiny people in this game and spend more time QQing on the forum than playing it seems like.

And if you open with condis on an Ele in this meta you’re as bad as you secretly know you are.

So much terribad from the Suckromancer community

Yall just go back to your class forum and hug your ugly minions until they slap you in the face enough to realize that your class does not revolve around condis

It isn’t a hard counter at all that’s the point. If you build entirely for direct damage against a Rabid or Settler’s build they have toughness and usually protection to mitigate your damage, extend the fight, and that hard counters every single power build in the game except for condi immune or heavy and easy condi removal builds.

Now that a full condi build has to fight an extended fight that they aren’t sure they can win, they throw a kitten fit like spoiled kids from Beverly Hills. It’s pathetic and shows just how bad those players really are.

I’ve wanted condi spammers to be able to be put in their place for a while now and that includes Engineers who, while do require more skill than Necros, are just as guilty of condi spam as Necros.

When you fight a good bomb nade Engi 1v1 you can’t beat him without using something that they’ll whine about, just like all of you average Necro players.

Here’s a tip: if you want to run condis, stick to teamfights don’t 1v1 people unless you know you’ve got it in the bag, like a guardian or something.

After the summer of Dumbfire, I have absolutely no sympathy for condi necros whatsoever and am glad they have to actually think about giving up some survivability to win 1v1s, invest in blood magic, or maybe do axe or dagger instead of staff.

Condi Necromancers’ opinions are pretty much irrelevant to any conversation of skill

ronpierce.2760:

BlackBeard.2873:

Requiem.8769:

If you had any power, you would have been fine. You didn’t. If you’d been in a teamfight, he would have lost that 10% immediately. You’re running headfirst into a brick wall – that is one foot wide. Step 6 inches either direction and you’ll be fine. You can try to argue “oh I shouldn’t have to” and keep running into that wall, but please don’t complain about the immobility of the wall when you’re choosing to run into it.

Quoted again for truth! Necro building for 100% pure condi with a tanky amulet gets upset b/c something would require him to not be tanky with hella damage? Carrion fixes your issues. Teamfighting (which a necro should be doing anyway) fixes your problem.

People have complained that condi-builds could have glass-damage with non-glass survivability. Take a non-tank amulet and enjoy the life that power-builds have had to deal with forever (giving up some survivability for their high damage).

So; okay with this carrion thing.
“Just take carrion and adapt to meta qqqqqqqqqq!”

Condi necros lost 1 bleed to their staff 2 (the main source of condi damage on the staff, 33% nerf)

Lost 1 bleed on a (Scepter?) attack. Another decent sized nerf.

Weakening shroud got obliterated to 2 sec of weakness and a tiny bleed when used (WAY less than half its old effectiveness)

Carrion removes the bleed from proc portion from curses because it has no crit.

Then they do this. Yeah that’s not trying to fix a meta, that’s saying kitten you to necromancers.

This is why so many players are incapable of providing feedback that matters. You take this crap so personal, when all you have to do is take a deep breath, change your amulet to zerker/valks/soldiers, and run a power build.

I approve of the spirit of the post, but we’ll see how true this is.

I don’t think Condi Engis are going away any time soon, and Rabid ammy does give a pretty decent boost to direct damage.

I am definitely gonna try a S/F Diamond Skin Ele though I’ve wanted to play Ele for a long time.

Ryan.9387:

Rangers won’t have the midfight like they used to but they will certainly own sidepoint as they always have.

Ele, Mesmer, and Warrior are going to be in a much stronger position for sides than Ranger now. I think this patch is the end of Condi Ranger at sides.

You clearly don’t remember 6 months of teams have at least one, usually two eles.

It’s a very strong class that is finally going to be relevant again.

And please stop with the whole Thief is gonna be irrelevant garbage 33% init regen, the haste on crit buff, and taking the biggest cheese out of the class leaves it just as good, if not better, in the hands a good thief.

The only people whining about tomorrow’s patch are S/D thieves, who are only outmatched by spirit rangers, hambow warriors, and condi necros as crutch dependent baddies.

It’s hilarious that they keep screaming that its the end of the world, and their tears are delicious.

Thief is gonna be fine. Anything with stealth is always going to be viable in PvP, this is true in all MMOs.

S/D was a joke b/c it could reset the fight with no consequence. Now they can be interrupted and S/D players will have to adapt to that. This will not break the build, but bring it down to a more reasonable level.

Infusion of Shadow has been a crutch for terrible thieves for entirely too long, but is more of a WvW improvement than PvP. In PvP, it’s just a troll build.

The buff to Critical Haste is actually really interesting and since initiative is gonna be faster to recharge, I can see that really helping sword builds that benefit quite a bit from a fast auto attack.

Valentin.2073:

qaelyn, if you wish to get roflstomped and have a very frustrating gw2 pvp experience go take this guy’s suggested builds.

i like cheese. everybody likes cheese. and after the patch we will create another cheese builds.

No someone who actually thinks will make a cheese build for you to copy and paste.

All you know how to do is get carried by FOTM builds. When you know how to run GS/LB Warrior and win 1v1s against Thieves, glass Power Ranger, glass Power Necro, or Halting Strike Shatter Mesmer then you’ll be more creditable.

I’ll give you links for those builds and challenge you to survive with them:

Warrior:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQJARTjcOFvxO2QMxBEjCjAIOKSCmQ9wO2w4A-ToAg0CnIKSVkrITRyisFNsYZB

Ranger:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQJATRjIVR2VW+Vs2Bg1j9CsvWBNZPOkxFPY1nH-ToAg0CnIQShkDJDSSksINsYZB

Necro:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNBIhZakRrSvTTbjhPhA949wFnJqAyQ9ocYnPE-TsAg0CnIQShkDJDSSksINsYZxsAA

Mesmer:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQJARWlwzipnVTqGb9ICqHYX29dkUYasWJF42FC-ToAg0CnIKSVkrITRyisFN+Y9B

Warning: if you try these builds you will die very quickly if you don’t know to engage, unable to size up a 1v1 situation, rotate, or don’t know the class.

If you make these builds work you will kill people in seconds, scare the kitten out of them, and make them play timid for an entire match. You’ll use your teammates and the environment as your defense, and roll in to otherwise even fights and crush the enemy