Guild Wars 2

Arganthium.5638:

Now, if I really want to create a unique burst spec, this is what I’d take…

Boon Counter, Evasion Spec

Cruuk’s Far-Point Decap Build

Aiden’s Tankier S/D Build

God’s Engi (btw God, I was actually screwing around buildcrafting some engis today, and, feeling somewhat inspired by Teldo, I created a build individually that I just found out is almost exactly the same as yours though :o but your playstyle and the differences in the build I made and the one you made are probably fairly significant)

D/D Ele by Blinx

This setup isn’t necessarily good, but it certainly isn’t meta. It doesn’t run condis either (apart from God, anyways, but that’s not quite the same as a necro). The difference, however, is that you really don’t seem to understand the basic foundations of a team comp, but others of us do. In this comp, I left out a bunker, but it otherwise follows some very simple rules and strategies that you need to understand.

Where is each guy positioned? How does each guy complement the other?

You claim to know how to team comp and yet leave out one of the most important roles in the game that has been on every single tournament team since there has been Guild Wars 2 tournaments?

Lay out these very simple rules and strategies that I “need” to learn from you?

Again, like the other guy, who are you?

Godofallu.2935:

If you won’t listen to me when I tell you this entire comp is cringe worthy I don’t think there is anyone on this forums that you would believe.

I could make a post 3 pages long on all the poor build choices and the utter lack of revives and ability to split. I could talk about how you don’t have anything that can solo the guild lord which will make foefire harder. Frankly though you guys don’t want to have a conversation on strengths and weaknesses. You made this thread trying to get pats on the back and approval which you are very unlikely to get considering what you’re presenting.

Who are you? I mean is there a reason I’m supposed to take you seriously?

Please stop with this stuff or I’ll involve the moderators. This is supposed to be constructive and about suggestions, not some dude acting a fool.

Anastasis.7258:

Thanks for the shoutout!
The trait at Discipline is actually Signet Mastery, and Destruction of Empowered.
Also the Hammer sigil should be Paralyzation.

Of course players can make some several changes according to their habit!

Nice Post btw, it must took you a lot of time because it looks like a research paper…

I just finished my final today, and it was a Computer Science class so I was kinda into it lol. Only took about an hour and a half actually. Some ppl pointed out some errors and my formatting sucked moving it to Google Docs so it showed for a minute lol.

Ya I’m not gonna post someone’s build and not give them a shoutout ;D

If you’re trying to build 1v1 on every class, then you are not building a team you’re building a wannabe All-Star team.

Staff ele in this build has a specific role. They can protect your guard, rain AoE burst, and CCs very well in air. You can put weakness pretty effectively on the guard too, which hurts his dodging

These aren’t ironclad, you can’t change anything, builds. It’s a general idea to counter the meta of spamming cheesers with actual tactics, positioning, and skill.

How much pressure is there really going to be at mid if the Condi team can’t trust their Spirit Ranger, the supposedly unkillable 1v1 killing machine, against the Thief? The reinforce will either come or they’ll eat losing home all game, which will cost them immensely.

If this is executed well you’re creating all kinds of chaos to their team.

Atherakhia.4086:

Shame the Ranger doesn’t have a power build option in this game. Would much rather play it than condi regen spec :/

You could try Axe/Warhorn and Longbow as the weapons and build however you feel benefits it. I’m not as much of a Ranger fan but I think Power did get a little bit better with LB stealth.

Godofallu.2935:

I told you earlier in Blu’s stream that I thought your comp was really bad. I suppose that was a bit harsh and I know you didn’t take it to heart since I only looked at the builds and didn’t read your text.

Reasons why this is atrocious: Staff elementalists have horrible defense. They don’t have blocks or lots of blinds or anything to keep themselves alive. They are horrid in 1v1 and 2v2 fights and can’t handle being trained by even 1 good dps player. In return they offer almost nothing offensively with slow and obvious attacks. They also don’t have the ability to revive players or control the downed game.

You mesmer is specced in a way that makes him useless in a 1v1 or 2v2 as well. It’s been said to death but shattered conditions is a bad trait that has no effect on 1v1/2v2 fights and only serves to kitten the mesmer by taking away his only chance at beating a necro/engie. By spiking him before the condi’s burn him out. What you have there is a build with far less damage and no real added survivability. You’re going so far out of your way to add a tiny bit more condition removal that you’re just gimping yourself. Removing your teams only revive skill in a team of 5 (most teams have many of these skills) for a tiny bit more condition removal in null field is just further proof of you not understanding that there is always a tradeoff in bringing more condi removal.

Several things to respond to with this piece of literary art.

1) Until you try it don’t call it atrocious. Anybody can read something and call it bad

2) At what point is the staff ele being referred to as the 1v1 guy? They’re there to nuke and support not solo people. There is a lot in the text that the build doesn’t tell you.

3) You must not have read the part where boons are being stripped to set up Static Field. You appear to just be cherrypicking weaknesses of staff Eles without looking at the synergy the Mesmer provides with it. Team game.

4) Again, the Mesmer’s role is not specifically a duelist, although they have the ability to hold their own. They are nuking mid and helping home point with portal. I don’t see how 300 extra healing power, condi removal on heal, and having shatters remove condis on AoE is not increasing survivability. I have run this build. It doesn’t suck 1v1 at all if you’re good at Mesmer and anyone who gets in the Guardian’s face is going to be the best target for these shatters.

5) Distortion rezing is pretty powerful, even with a condi cleave, if you are timing your Null Field to remove the poison they are spamming. Mist Form rez is as well.

When you test the build I’ll take this opinion more seriously.

Positioning is mentioned over and over in the text, which supplements the builds. A staff ele can mitigate an enormous amount of damage to him if he positions himself right, as can a mesmer or any ranged class.

I’ve seen your build: Are you going to run up to 300 range and use Grenades on someone? Of course not! I also mention that if someone is comfortable with taking more risk that they can run Zerker Ammy on staff Ele for more damage.

Try it out – see how much damage you can do in an area with Fire 5, 2, and Air Auto attacking on a Spirit Ranger friend of yours. I know there are several dozen to choose from just your guild alone lol.

In the meantime, try to have a better attitude and know who you’re talking to before you say stuff like that.

Thanks for the response Jonathan!

That’s what I bring up in my team comp idea I posted above

Warrior’s are so good in 1v1 so why bring them to a fight where stability is being spammed everywhere? They are great duelists now.

If your team supports you, a Warrior can defend and harrass in your territory very fast, and win pretty much any 1v1 against meta condi comps. Even against burst they are very strong if they bring endure pain and time their burst well. I think Warrior vs. Ele/Mesmer/Thief 1v1 is a lot more balanced now and they are actually stronger vs. condi classes.

Added a Q&A to the document

Ya they are long. You get more sustain though, even it’s just a little every inch counts.

Illusionary Persona is really good but the problem in this meta is the AoE spam from marks and S/D 2 and 5. You have to be close to your target, which plays into their hands b/c you’re out of position now, have all kinds of nastiness on you, and they have Death Shroud to troll your damage with.

I agree with the shatters. They punish you pretty hard DPS-wise for not speccing into Illusions, even though it gives condi dmg, which sucks in a burst build.

I have an idea of what you can do if you like burst, hate condi, and want to destroy the cheesers!

Warning: not an easy comp to run and requires skill

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RREYzw6wjTVnXltv9IslcwA-fOG701FAOWqDNcI96U4/edit

Ya, priority targeting depends on the situation, who’s there, etc.

Focusing the Guard is always great b/c that guy is so important to their team. You have so much mobility as a team that you can really do crazy stupid dmg in a lot more ways than just the examples I have.

Ex. on Khylo let’s say the Engi goes “guys I’m going far” and jumps off the ledge. The staff ele sees him, calls it out, the warrior starts heading over, uses Air 3, and puts Static Field down on him, and the Warrior comes over with his Hammer. That dude is dead on arrival lol.

I was just illustrating the effect that a staff ele can have on AI-dependent builds with their AoE. If both are on the point with the guard that does limit its effectiveness, since that’s 9 targets (!!!!!) but at least you’re putting pressure on them.

Its about the total team approach though. You and Ele will do massive damage, and if the thief/warrior reinforces they don’t have an answer for all that burst.

You’ll pull your weight trust me.

The build for Mesmer in this comp is not the usual Shatter build but you can tweak it however you like. If you’re tired of this meta and want to make them eat BURST try this!

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RREYzw6wjTVnXltv9IslcwA-fOG701FAOWqDNcI96U4/edit

Tired of this meta? Get some friends together and try this out!

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RREYzw6wjTVnXltv9IslcwA-fOG701FAOWqDNcI96U4/edit

The Boz.2038:

I can only play the warrior or elementalist here, but I’ll see about finding some people interested in game, try and get them to roll with this. On first glance, I don’t see any major glaring weaknesses, apart from the elementalist. That one shouldn’t be a problem if he’s really never alone, though.

Ya the Ele, Mesmer, and Guard are your core mid point crew. Even if you’re caught out of position, you still can put protection on yourself in Earth, blink, and sprint as fast as you can toward your teammates.

With Ele I think if they can develop great timing with the CC they can really mess Necros and Rangers up.

I don’t care if ppl choose easy ways.

This strat is about destroying them, if you’re tired of the meta get some ppl together and try this out.

So this is a link to a team comp that I worked on today as a challenge to people to fight the Meta.

I hate this meta. I really hate this meta. I know I have brought up how much I despise certain elements of the classes that are currently strong, but I think I have come up with a team composition that can challenge them, if not beat them, with classes that are considered weak right now.

I know many of you like Ele, Warrior and Mesmer but don’t really get to run them with success in this meta. I feel your pain. I want you to be able to dish that pain back to them b/c at the end of the day Burst is SO much more satisfying to win with than Conditions in my opinion.

It’s not an easy build, and certainly isn’t as forgiving as Condi builds. There aren’t easy rezes here, and very little spamming. Positioning, Speed, and Timing are really important. CC burst coordination is really important. Saving certain skills for situations is as well. You have to know your enemy, be able to handle 1v2 as a Thief with 1200 toughness, and your Guardian has to have brass balls. You’ve got to be comfortable with pressure and anxiety.

I think a group of players that are on the same page can execute this. I hope some good players read this and it turns on the light bulb in their brain.

If you want to try this, message me in game, or get a group of friends together to check it out. The google docs link is public so anybody can read it.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RREYzw6wjTVnXltv9IslcwA-fOG701FAOWqDNcI96U4/edit?usp=sharing

Well ya that’s what he said at the very beginning. He called out his own class lol.

I personally think that every skill ought to have a time and a place and spamming should never be a viable strategy

the problem is that condi builds get defense and offense at the same time, when a guard sacrifices all his damage to run bunker and burst classes sacrifice defense.

That’s just stupid

The part where he goes over how the skills could actually have a use instead of just being spammed is exactly what Anet needs to hear.

He’s right about the overhaul though. It’s very unlikely to happen.

jportell.2197:

jmatb.6307:

The speed you’re running is not as important with Mesmer b/c you have Z axis mobility, cross map team mobility, and the best ranged burst in the game.

Best ranged burst goes to necros still.

I meant direct damage not drooling condi spamming lol.

You’re right though. BTW:

http://www.twitch.tv/helsethgw2/c/2696189

New Rant of the Week is up

2nd week, goes over the ugly truth of GW2 – strategy doesn’t matter. He who spams faster wins

http://www.twitch.tv/helsethgw2/b/445522980

Week 1 – Animations (Incoming Damage)
PS: the patch that added symbols above all signets and fears came out after this video

http://www.twitch.tv/helsethgw2/c/2696189

Ya backstab Thief does not make you God Mode. At all.

You’re beyond squishy you have to know positioning so much better than Rangers do right now

QtVain.5803:

I main Ele, and always will. Unfortunately, I decided to see what all the hype is about today by playing Spirits. Well, I literally carried my personal rating from 196, to 60-70ish today. I’m pretty sure I went 20-4 or 19-4 today, which is unreal.

I consider myself an extremely seasoned Ele, and I know the ins and the outs of the class, yet somehow somebody who has NO idea what is going on can faceroll and kill me. No matter how hard I outplay the Spirit Ranger, it is just too forgiving.

-Passively providing burning, swiftness, and protection to the entire team
-AOE Rez
-AOE Condi clearing, regen granting, blastable heal.
-kittened amounts of condi burts
-Massive amounts of sustain

^ THAT should never happen to any one class. It’s disappointing how broken Spirits currently are.

Ya long time Ele players know how it is. Even when cantrips were all stun breaks and cleared condis, a new player was not going to be able to run it right. They’d stay in one attunement, they wouldn’t time their Updraft right, use Shocking Aura away from the target instead of close to them, etc.

Spirit Ranger does not have a learning curve. It doesn’t exist. It’s so easy and does more than OP Ele could even DREAM of with damage and survivability.

The speed you’re running is not as important with Mesmer b/c you have Z axis mobility, cross map team mobility, and the best ranged burst in the game.

I think its fair b/c they have portal. That ends up having more mobility overall than any other class since your teammates can use it too.

Burst vs. Condi

That’s really the best way to handle it in my opinion. Balanced team comps, with bunks, condi and burst make it too complicated and create too much competition between classes for the same spots.

Here are the general class archetypes for a Burst and Condi team comps

Burst
- Guardian
- Warrior
- Mesmer
- Elementalist
- Thief

Guardian for mid support, Ele for home and backup support, with Warrior, Mesmer, and Thief wreaking absolute havoc through CC, mobility, and burst. You could switch Warrior and Ele too, since they became a lot tankier and better in 1v1 situations, which you want in a home point guy. Thief can push far better than anybody, and Mesmer can rapidly transport their teammates between points with Portal, strip boons, and also do incredible CC.

Conditions
- Guardian
- Necromancer
- Engineer
- Ranger
- Thief/Mesmer

Guardian has similar purpose, with Ranger as the backup/support, although Engineer could do that too. Necro, Ranger and Engi have incredible pressure and synergy, with plenty of bleeds, burns, and poison between them. Thief / Mesmer can provide more bleeds, torment, confusion, mobility from Portal/Shadow Trap, and Thief can push far very well. They aren’t as mobile as the burst team, but make up for it with insane teamfight ability.

The problem right now is that the condi team has much, much more control over downed state than the burst team. They res and cleave better categorically. You effectively have a situation where burst is like how warriors have been for months, where you either take them down fast or you die fast.

I think Nature Renewal spirits are one of the culprits preventing burst teams from working, with the other being group condi counter play for those classes. If Shattered Conditions removed more condis per shattered illusion, then Mesmers could really help their team out and inspiration would be great as a trait line against those teams. Eles could use more condi removal from Water, or even the same condi removal they had before it was nerfed. You wouldn’t have to take Dhuumfire out that way Eles would be able to counter them with 3 cantrips.

The two team comps fight well against each other as is. A burst vs. burst match is pretty incredible to watch and participate in actually. If condi vs. burst is competitive, then I think this game will finally be balanced enough to be inclusive to all 8 classes, and teams will be more capable to do what they like.

Do balanced teams have a place w/ a mix of condis and burst? I think that’s a good way to start but at the competitive level you want to concentrate firepower. If you’re mixing condis and burst you don’t have as much synergy.

That’s my take what do you guys think?

Ya I beat someone who’s been playing Ranger for months with a Ranger the third time i’ve ever played the class in PvP.

It really is shocking how easy and effective the class is. I avoid it entirely because I know I will get lazy and develop bad habits with it.

Bursting Spirit Ranger Strats

Thief with 20/30 Shadow Arts can take anybody. Look up Cruuk’s build and learn its strategy and you’ll have a great answer to Spirit Rangers. If you bring Dagger Storm you’ll heal to full and wipe out all the spirits, after which D/P, S/P, or S/D will completely destroy the Ranger. If they try to summon spirits you have Headshot, the cast time is long enough to react to. You can also Cluster Bomb the spirits. This is the best class to take them b/c you can disengage when other ppl show up and cost them ppl in the midfight. 2 on their home point with 3 at mid/far vs. your 4 teammates should end in a 2 cap quickly. If it doesn’t your teammates aren’t very good.

Warrior can start in LB and then close once the Stone Spirit is down. You do have to be careful with the evades but chances are they’ll use them trying to get out of your Combustive Shot or Arcing Arrow, so timing it right after will be effective. Bulls Charge to Greatsword and Hammer both work because these builds have no stun breaks. If you’re good at LB/Hammer you can take out the Spirit Ranger very fast, which is good but not as good as Thief b/c if someone else shows up you’re in more trouble. If you have GS you can disengage and get back to mid faster than anybody.

Mesmer can GS range them really well. You’re at 1.2k while they’re usually at 900. If you stay at range then close once they lose Stone and Sun spirits, they’ll be easy to kill. Use Diversion first, not Mind Wrack, so you can set up Illusionary Leap and Blurred Frenzy. They build for evade spam opening with Mind Wrack is stupid. If you bring Signet of Domination you can bait with Diversion, hit them with it after a couple clones/phantasms go up then unload a Leap/BF/Mind Wrack burst. I like Portal, Null Field, and Sig of Domination but you have to be really fast with Portal if you don’t want to get destroyed by their teammates when reinforcing.

Eles can Earthquake, Lightning Flash to do massive AoE on the spirits. Don’t worry about the blind that just costs you the Lightning Flash, not the money maker. Fire 2, 3, and 4 will clean up whatever’s left and moving between Air and Fire for the rest of the fight will clean up the Ranger. Out of the four burst classes, though, they’re the worst equipped against condi classes b/c their condi cleanse has been nerfed so much since launch. Triple cantrips doesn’t clear condis like it used to, which really hurts the class overall. Add how easily S/D thieves can take out Eles and you don’t really bring that much if they reinforce. Mist form is only 4 seconds and RTL can be interrupted by fear.

The most important ability to dodge from the Ranger is the Torch 4. That single skill can take off half your health and has range. SB can stack bleeds if you’re not facing them, so don’t let them flank you! You have to keep them in your sights and use your camera angle to target ranged attacks. The other skills are more annoying than dangerous, b/c poison is weak and bleeds only get dangerous past a certain amount.

The Sun Spirit is the most dangerous offensive one, but the spirit that is the higher priority for burst is the Stone Spirit b/c the clock is ticking. If they have no protection they will feel a lot more pressure from you.

VOIP does give you an advantage but if your teammates get there at 1:00+ that’s more than enough time to link TS and load it before the match. If ppl dont’ have it that’s their own fault – the best and most effective way to coordinate is to not have to type anything at all and communicate in real time.

I don’t think it’s cheap it’s proactive. Sync Qing, on the other hand, is not cool b/c then you’re guaranteeing your comp and eliminating the randomness that should be part of Solo Q.

One thing about thief is that you are given incentive to keep your initiative above half most of the engagement with the 25 minor in Critical Strikes. That means a disciplined thief is going to be very strong vs. wasting all your initiative and losing damage b/c of it.

The Acrobat spec, however, has nearly permanent vigor uptime and recharges vigor on dodge. I’d start with the dodge recharge b/c that part is what makes it over the top. The damage and #3 is fine b/c you have to close a gap as a squishy. The #2 is too b/c a new thief is not going to have any idea how to use it so it will be a learning curve.

The dodges are the problem, and they need to be looked at.

Mesmers, the point of the topic, are fine as they are, what needs to happen is Necros need to be reflected or more telegraphed in general. Helseth has it 100% right on that with his video. They did slightly increase how telegraphed Signet of Spite and Reaper’s Mark is, but in a teamfight that isn’t going to matter.

There are plenty of dusty old skills that nobody’s bringing that reflect projectiles. Why is a Necro special and not able to be reflected in any of their best pressure? Also Necros happen to be the best class at eating condis b/c they can heal based on condis, cleansing all of them too, and pass them back to people, so it eliminates choice even further.

Mesmers are awesome for reflecting. If Necros could be reflected then they would have to develop better timing or at least be worried about their mesmer. Right now nothing scares Necros besides a 1v1 vs. someone with high CC and burst damage.

passive+active mechanics in general still need to be in the game, but should be weaker than something that requires usage overall.

Warrior is one example but a better one is Necromancer. When you use Signet of Spite you have more cover condis to protect your good damaging ones than most classes can cleanse, even going into a full cleanse trait and utility setup.

That, my friends, is called overpowered. Yes you can dodge it, but in a teamfight when spirits are all over the place it isn’t that easy.

And if any necro argues that 180 power isn’t that important, look up the threads where having 916 more power doubles your direct damage. When you haven’t used Signet of Spite you effectively get 20% more direct DPS in a condi build. Add the crit damage from 20 Soul Reaping and you get decent direct damage on top of all the condi pressure.

Necros ought to be given more incentive to run Spectrals, Corruption and Wells, which require use to get any return on, than Signets in competitive play. For a new player, Signets should be encouraged so they have a higher start value in production.

Templates would help a lot here. Given how much time it took Anet for solo Q I guess we’ll see Templates some time next year >.>

Haha ya

/15char

Ya Cope I miss the hell out of GW1 Ranger. The monstrosity that is GW2 Ranger kitten es on its glorious heritage

lyssa on S/D is pretty much required.

Solo Q is nice tried it, and so are finishers, but features are not as important as the balance and how competitive PvP is in the nuts and bolts.

Asura are still stupid. Signets are given away more, but you can’t read Asura anywhere near as well as the other races. They either need to be human size or banned, I completely agree with Helseth on that.

bumping this

/15char

They’ll just leave 4 times and stop leaving until the debuff is gone… better to do an immediate but relatively short punishment IMO

Ya when ppl say Spirit Ranger is easy to counter, even the people who competed in the tournaments they must not realize what people are trying to do to them when they fight them.

1v1 you can get a stunlock warrior to wipe the floor with them, but you necessarily are going to have to try to do that with other people attacking you as well. It’s not like their teammates are gonna just wait while you kill their spirit ranger.

The problem with the build is that it’s so low maintenance and low risk and returns more than two entire classes that actually require skill to play – Ele and Mesmer.

IoL and Portal support is not summon and go. Ele has to know what 20 different skills are and use them at the right time in combination with their utilities. Engi kits also have a similar effect.

Ranger just needs an overhaul as a class. The package they bring is so low skill it’s embarrassing

lol if you think its hard then you don’t know positioning.

lol @ mace shield 100B builds

Do Longbow Hammer zerker 30 defense 30 discipline, 10 arms. You will never run Mace Shield GS ever again

Sol,

I was speaking generally, trying out the Trap, Spirit, Power, and a BM build I threw together that was very difficult to kill.

There is almost no risk/reward with this class. It is designed to be high skill floor through evade spamming, passive+active, and AI crutches.

I don’t blame you for maining this class or anyone else that plays the game. I don’t have problems with Ranger players anymore because I’ve realized that if you have the choice between a Ferrari and a Volvo it just makes sense to take the Ferrari.

My problem is with the people who made the class so easy to learn and master and rewards people to not play something that requires timing and skill in favor of… this.

If I wanted to go into specifics I would fill up the entire page of ways you can easily beat most players with Ranger. Most of them have to do with evading key skills they need to land to kill you.

None of those ways make me go “Wow I really outplayed this guy,” except for LB/GS but even then it’s easy to play a glass build when you have more than 20 seconds of stability to use your rotation.

I want to get all the champion titles but getting the one for Ranger is going to make me hate this game.

Lol I’ve been playing Ranger the last couple days and this class is insulting to play.

Evade spamming, passive condis on hit skills, AoE spam, summon skills that return way too much…

This class is so badly put together for PvP that it has to be given a high skill floor to be worth anything.

Obviously great players can do great things with Rangers, but you are not going to be tested by that class anywhere near as much as the others.

Car Crash waves to you with their 2 Eles

You’re right though the high skill floor on those builds being more effective than risk/reward is terrible for the game

burst is terrible right now even though it shouldn’t be.

Earthquake – Lightning Flash makes it really hard for them to avoid your burst. People think Mogwow hacks but that combo is the “secret” to it. If they’re knocked down they either have to stun break or die. If you pick the squishy targets they are pretty much dead with S/D burst.

Until there is actual risk to running a ranger they will never have the respect of anyone who has played other classes.

ya a Warrior teamed up with a Wells necro, Shatter Mesmer w/ Null Field, or S/D thief will wreck some fools.

If you guys haven’t tried the LB/Hammer build do so. You will crush everything in sight.

I’m pretty sure the work it would take to redo all the mobs in the game for PvE across all those zones would be a much more difficult task than just making PvP its own thing. I agree, but the dynamics involved with making PvE that good might be beyond MMOs right now O.o