Most shout build condi warriors go 0/10/30/30/0 or 0/10/20/30/10 or even 0/5/20/30/15 for fast hands.
Healing Power tends to outpace Vitality if your duels last past 1 minute, however, with full apothecary you tend to have quite a bit less condition damage.
This is a build that I have used before in the past, pretty much unstoppable, that is why I stopped. Still has some Healing Power from the Defense trait, LB cooldown to land pindown, burns and blinds more, retaliation for extra DPS. You can use an underwater weapon to gain 25 stacks of condition damage.
well the build has more cond damage than your build and it uses full exotic no ascended… its all apothecary gear so how exactly does it lose condi damage? the only thing i lose is 7k hp but also about 1k healing and about 150 condi damage, and 150 toughness at that
I am saying in general apothecary gear has less condition damage then rabid or dire.
Funny thread. I like when skills are able to be used both defensively and offensively so please don’t make this kind of change. It gives me a choice in playstyle.
But I do laugh at the warriors who always run away. If you emote laugh at them, they usually come back to fight.
You would still be able to use the leaps defensively in the same way that guardians use their ports defensively. You switch targets to a target that gets you out of the kill zone.
It just requires more awareness of surroundings and targeting skills, but sometimes there are no good escape options. As it should be.
How dare you suggest that a warrior should be forced to be aware of their surroundings. Anet is trying to take that out of warrior, didn’t you see the 6.5 months of buffs that they got to their traits that activate passively?
Yet axe = nerfed, mace = nerfed, hammer = nerfed, longbow = nerfed, HF and BP = moved from adept to grandmaster, Unsuspecting foe = nerfed. Warriors were buffed for good reason. It is only because warrior got sustain that allowed them to be viable in tPvP play that people are now complaining about mobility.
well take your tears somewhere else this thread isn’t the place for it
Mini no matter what you say it doesnt really matter, this is all based on if the warrior only has sword 4, but the fact is they don’t, you are not going to have enough condi removal to be able to remove 5 stacks of torment that the warrior has with only 15 sec cool down, when the torment it self lasts for 12 sec, if you remove it at the wrong time, you still have it applied, if you remove it at the right time, you are basically saving it making yourself vulnerable to other condi.
must you insist on crying on every warrior thread in sight? even when it isn’t a discussion of whether it is op or not in pvp?
Ah, I see your point now, didn’t notice that you said on swap sigils, because that is the only way that would apply. On hit or on crit sigils work a bit differently.
If weapon swap sigils have a 9 second cooldown, after the initial proc of both weapon sets, it will be proccing 2 sets of sigils every 9 seconds.
Most shout build condi warriors go 0/10/30/30/0 or 0/10/20/30/10 or even 0/5/20/30/15 for fast hands.
Healing Power tends to outpace Vitality if your duels last past 1 minute, however, with full apothecary you tend to have quite a bit less condition damage.
This is a build that I have used before in the past, pretty much unstoppable, that is why I stopped. Still has some Healing Power from the Defense trait, LB cooldown to land pindown, burns and blinds more, retaliation for extra DPS. You can use an underwater weapon to gain 25 stacks of condition damage.
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I was about to say lol ... 25 might stacks you could probably do 8K dmg a second, with 5 berserker warriors it is 40K dmg a second, x 30 seconds, that is 1.2 million dmg over 30 seconds .. lol.
Your right. I am trying to take the OPs unfair specification of warriors, and turn this into a more rational discussion about weapon skills . The fact that they have been specified by Anet as gap closers, combined with what they posted as their idea of what every profession should be, certainly justifies them as requiring an adjustment. My suggestion is to add the requirement of needing a target that is in range. This would exclude skills that are utility skills or that currently require a form of ground targeting.
I can agree with this statement, that ANet have to take a look at what should be gap closers and what should be more of “tactical retreat”. However I do believe that Bull’s Charge is somewhat of a big offender to that notion, despite being a utility.
When one thinks of Bull’s Charge, one would tend to picture something or somebody charge into something. But many times in WvW I see it being used to run away from something. Bulls charge having a 2 second knockdown further justifies its use as a gapcloser. But overall, even utilities need to be looked at to come up with, as I said a grander picture.
Been saying this for awhile now. I can’t believe we, Warriors, as the most highly telegraphed, and best designed class, imo. Get hit with alll these changes to make us even more highly telegraphed when things that have absolutely ZERO counterplay, such as ele s/d burst etc are still around.
We used mace, it went from being overused to never used. I forsee the same thing happening to longbow. It’s a trend with all of our weapons.
Next will be kitten channeling time for HB, Earthshaker, and Eviscerate. As well as an audible shout letting the enemy know which attack I am about to use.
It’s simple, these are all just blanket nerfs to somewhat help appease the tirade of Warrior whiners armed with pitchforks, torches and tears while the devs try to find balance with our core mechanics that don’t break this class completely.
So let us talk about what other sources of condition removal that a Warrior has (besides cleansing ire) and put it into context with the current meta.
Mending - While removing 3 conditions every 20 seconds certainly doesn’t seem bad at all. The healing on this skill is atrocious and does not nearly give us the sustainability needed to survive in PvP. Healing Signet provides that sustainability, which is why Mending is simply not a viable alternative for condition removal.
Shake it Off - Aside from it being a valuable stunbreaker every 25 seconds and curing conditions on allies. It only cures 1 condition .... every 25 seconds! In this condition based meta, this is absolute garbage.
Warhorn - Now, I like the concept of the warhorn, being a very team-oriented weapon. However, it only removes chilled, cripple and immobilized. This hardly is helpful in dealing with conditions such as burning, bleeding, torment, poison, weakness, confusion, etc. That, and the Warhorn lacks in any offensive output. Now, you could trait to convert conditions into boons with the warhorn, but that requires a heavy investment which may kitten your DPS quite a bit.
Signet of Stamina - This honestly isn’t a terrible utility, besides the fact that it is 45 seconds for a full condi wipe. You could trait into signet mastery, but 36 seconds still still quite a lot.
Shout/Soldier Runes - Pffft, please, just .... no.
A warrior, being that in your face type of class that doesn’t have a whole lot of dodging, in-combat mobility, stealth, AI, boons, etc, kind of really depends on having good, reliable condition removal. This is made painfully obvious if you rewind back to 8 months ago. Even with Cleansing Ire, they weren’t really very viable at all, but of course there wasn’t really any hambow build. Healing Signet was what allowed them to shine because they finally got some sustainability to compliment it. People need to realize when warriors were at the bottom of the barrel in competitive PvP, that Condition Removal and Sustainability were often cited as the root of all their problems. Yes they have the highest HP/Armor, good mobility, great DPS, good amounts of invulnerabilities, very high CC, cleave which seems all good and OP on paper. But despite that, without good condition removal and sustainability, they were nothing but an afterthought.
So what have we learned and what can we take away from this post? Well, allow me to make it clear.
- Cleansing Ire needs to be changed (to allow other weaponsets to be more viable and to make it less mandatory, not necessarily a nerf persay)
- Warriors have absolutely abysmal and non-viable inherent condition removal other than cleansing ire
- The condition meta needs to be revised and reconsidered
These changes can entail buffing other sources of condition removal, changing the functionality of Cleansing Ire in terms of burst, perhaps splitting the adrenaline on hit and condition removal portion and adjusting them accordingly.
I really hope the Devs read this thread and really take a thoughtful, objective look on Cleansing Ire and see how it is impacting build diversity and making the necessary changes.
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Cleansing Ire is a very hotly debated topic and what most people consider be one of the traits that take Warriors over the top in sPvP. A lot of people have been arguing for how OP it is as a trait and alot of people have been arguing that without it, Warriors would not survive the condition meta. In which I can kind of understand both sides.
I don’t really want to get into any debates of whether Cleansing Ire is OP or UP, because that isn’t even the main issue with this skill. I hope I speak for many warriors when I say that I absolutely dread having to immediately lock 20 points into defense just to survive the condition meta times.
In my opinion, the two main issues with this skills are.
1) It is pretty much mandatory for any competitive build.
2) It makes certain weapon sets less viable almost purely because of it.
So let me explain my position on this. Starting with the first point.
1): As you know, Cleansing Ire requires an investment of 20 points into defense to unlock the trait. This trait allows the removal of conditions per bar of expended adrenaline. So if you have 3 bars of adrenaline when you use the burst, you remove 3 conditions. Burst Mastery makes this work a bit different, but that is besides the point. This trait is mandatory for I feel 2 reasons. Firstly, we are in such a heavy condition based meta that warriors are constantly worried about how they are going to cleanse conditions. Secondly, outside of this trait, we lack reliable sources of condition removal that are actually viable in a competitive scene. It is a powerful and reliable source of condition removal yes, but if we simply had better, more viable options it wouldn’t be such a mandatory trait. It also has a nice little bonus of gaining adrenaline on hit so one can use their burst skills more often.
2): Secondly, why are any weapons that aren’t a longbow or a hammer not being used in PvP? It is through a combination of reasons, from being bad burst skills to begin with, single target, hard to land, easily countered, etc. But most importantly, it is probably because of CI. CI, paired with any other weapons do not provide reliable condition removal at all and if a Warrior is focused, he won’t be able to use the burst mechanic for condition removal. Since Hammer Burst is an AoE that hits 5 targets in a sizable radius, it isn’t too difficult to remove conditions. Longbow is also an AoE, except that it doesn’t even need to hit any targets for the effect. And there you have it, 50% of the reason why hambow builds are being used almost exclusively in competitive PvP.
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Fair enough, give Warriors pull abilities on each melee weapon then.
Requiring a target in order to activate Rush or Leaps would be even a greater buff to stealth (where you immediately lose target) and clone classes (read: Thief and Mesmer). You know because those two classes need even more buffs because they aren’t popular at all...
TL;DR bad idea because you didn’t think about the easy counter classes
Why use such an unnecessarily complicated solution, when adding a target requirement as in other skills solves the entire issue.
If people want to cite sword/GS as an example of broken mobility, How about I cite the elementalist with fiery greatsword, teleport and rtl? Can anybody catch that? Seriously. Or thieves with shortbow and shadow step and stealth, or rangers with sword + greatsword.
Warriors wielding only a greatsword, with no trait cooldown only has average out of combat mobility. Which many people tend to have in WvW.
Perhaps you should read the thread. It is in reference to any and all professions weapon skills. So yes, this includes *swoop*, *rush*, *savage leap*, *fiery rush*, and the like. Thieves short bow is excluded, it requires ground targeting. Similarly whirlwind attack is excluded from the list. Blink and rocket boots or bulls charge on the other hand are utility skills, thus require the sacrifice of a utility slot for the mobility.
So to recap, because some posters appear to have an issue staying on the topic here. We are discussing *weapons skills* only, not utility skills. Further more, of the weapons skills, we are only discussing the ones with no targeting of any kind required. Again, because time and effort (ever so small as it may be) are required to use them.
I remember when Warrior just sucked.
I call shenanigans (to put it politely).....You do not remember that, because it was not the case. If you have something well thought out or intelligent to add, we truly welcome your input. But when you start off with a line such as this, it is clear you are just trolling, or displaying an unreasonable bias.
If this thread was to simply address all forms of retreating of the weapon skills of all classes, then why is the title of the thread called [Warriors] best landspeed, no balance? That leads one to the impression that Warrior’s speed should be addressed. And why are 80% of the people that post here targeting warriors without simply addressing other weapon skills in the form of "Rush" like abilities. Which is exactly my point if you understood and read my post. That if people want warrior mobility nerfed, then they should consider other forms of mobility from other classes that can easily give them as much, if not more mobility.
I wish I could use Hammer/Longbow in WvW as a roamer, but look, I need mobility and weapon choices do indeed entail some sacrifice as well as having utility skills. So even they should be looked at and not be considered in a vacuum because they contribute to the overall picture.
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Dogged March isn’t mandatory at all. It is just as a hambow build it doesn’t really make any sense to take any other trait in that adept trait line because you aren’t using a shield.
I think if they combined the reflect missiles and shield cooldown trait or do something to that effect, more people would be taking it if they used a shield.
Cleansing Ire is pretty much the only mandatory trait and Adrenal Health is by default because you get it anyway by getting Cleansing Ire. And maybe fast hands for any build that isn’t a healing condi bunker. In terms of utilities, some form of stability (Balanced Stance and Dolyak Signet) I would say is needed.
In WvW it isn’t really needed to have both Endure Pain and Berserker Stance (although most people at least carry one of the two). Unless you are a shout build, which probably means you are pretty tanky and sturdy anyway.
warrior QQers are funny.
hey I’m complaining about torment on a 15 second cooldown against a cheese condition based warrior (I have no condition removal), when I can easily play an equally cheese condition based thief and apply 2 stacks of torment on no cooldown and own the warrior.
If people want to cite sword/GS as an example of broken mobility, How about I cite the elementalist with fiery greatsword, teleport and rtl? Can anybody catch that? Seriously. Or thieves with shortbow and shadow step and stealth, or rangers with sword + greatsword.
Warriors wielding only a greatsword, with no trait cooldown only has average out of combat mobility. Which many people tend to have in WvW.
I have to agree with furajir, 80% of condi builds are stupid to play, including warrior condi. People say warriors in general are easy and so faceroll to play, when many condi builds in general are just cheesy to play. I don’t know how people can possibly have fun with most condition builds (esp warrior condi which is at the top of the list of dumb along with thief, mesmer, engi) but I guess if they are actually killing a lot of people for once in their lives who am I to knock them.
That is just me though.
I can’t wait for the day where I won’t have to pack Runes of Lyssa, SoS, Cleansing Ire and Zerker Stance all in the same build just to combat how prevalent conditions are.
haven’t made a video in awhile so i decided to make one, quality isn’t the best I’m aware of that but it can be difficult to record, have low FPS while playing at the same time, I will need a better GPU. Anyways enjoy. I’m not opposed to showing losses or what I did wrong because nobody wins or is completely flawless 100% of the time and no build is unstoppable or uncounterable despite what you see on most videos, so I put a few in there.
Video:
They still weren’t clear about how this would really effect PvE and WvW. I felt like they said 10% damage as an arbitrary number with no context. So I reserve any judgments until then.
And I refuse to run condi warrior because it is just pure cheese and is just simply very boring.
If 95% of your player base go to 1 heal after it was buffed, something went wrong. Also if the population of wvw goes from 10% warrior to about 30%…something went wrong =P
Warriors were always the most popular class pre and post buff.
The elementalist heal also cures conditions as it pulses (8 times I believe)
Ether Feast heals around 356 per second with all 3 clones which really isn’t hard to get. And considering all the stealth they have, and ways to avoid damage.
Necromancer’s Heal cures all conditions and in a condition based meta that we are in will heal for a whole lot of HP.
Troll Unguent is around 330 HPS.
Now I could agree it could of been nerfed a bit more (maybe down to 350 HPS) but it isn’t out of line as you make it out to be. Warriors don’t have a whole lot of other sources of healing like let’s say a Guardian, Engi or an Ele whom all can attain higher HPS than a warrior. Adrenal Health is really a non-issue because most warriors will expend burst.
And to say that Healing Signet doesn’t have any other additional affects but we have Cleansing Ire is a really moot argument. Because I could say oh Mesmers don’t have any additional effects on Ether Feast but they have boons on stealth and low cooldown evade on the sword. You can’t use base stats to justify a complete destruction of a heal. Look no further than the release of GW2, when the Warrior was considered the worst class. Having high base stats was a huge handicap because it meant we had no sustain, good condi removal, or protection. While the D/D ele had the lowest base stats and was 3x more sustainable than a warrior. You are basically just ensuring the heal will never be used ever again if you drop it to the level of Thief’s withdraw and it really is unreasonable, considering Warriors are supposed to be the ones that are durable and are on the frontlines soaking damage. And thieves have stealth.
I know many people who agree with me that if ANet isn’t careful about Healing Signet they are just one change away from being unviable in tPvP. Despite the Warriors looking strong now (yet teams still need Guardians, Condi Engis, etc), they are really susceptible to the effects of a nerf of any mechanic that gives them survivability.
except hambow warriors aren’t condi bunkers.
I find that to be a considerable buff, seeing as a warrior I like to use hammer/greatsword or lb/greatsword, i guess you can call it a buff to hambow builds as well.
Here come energy and battle sigil stacking.
Can people actually wait for more details of what the developers have to say about critical damage instead of causing a needless crapstorm about something they have never stated as of yet, which is nerfing critical damage?
I think a decent change in the right direction is to allow all sources of healing besides utility healing to be effective in death shroud. This includes regen and any life siphoning abilities and traits that a Necro get, or flat healing from other classes.
Hey guys! I played Mesmer for the first time and I was top scoring in my PvP match! True story bro! I probably got carried, rolled with at least 3 people at all times, stayed on the point just to boost my score when I could of been helping somebody else. Because score tells the whole story right and it means I’m the best!
Honestly, I’ve wasted enough breath trying to respond to these clowns with logic ... trying to defend this class to death? Lol that is a good one. I am just trying to defend this class from being overnerfed to pretty much the worst class that they once were by losers whom all they seem to do his whine and complain. I am sure that is what many of my fellow warriors are trying to do as well.
If that is defending the warrior to death then so be it then, although I have said that Healing Signet and Mobility should be toned a little bit. It’s funny that most of these people that complain about the Warrior being OP were probably the ones that never supported or called for any Warrior buffs pre-Cleansing Ire state. I guess they wanted us to remain the punching bag but when things got evened up they cry.
I’ve read it and while i do see your point there is a clear difference between having telegraphed skills and not having telegraphed skills. And one would obviously want the latter. It does detract from the class because you become more predictable and people can in turn counter that predictability. And having in game general knowledge also entails knowing warrior animations and knowing when to dodge them. And also having map awareness to better prevent being ganked by another player.
Fair enough, my logic might be flawed in that regard, however I mentioned it for a different purpose in which I will get back to later. But facerolling with a warrior in hotjoins doesn’t really hold any weight whatsoever (which many of these claims tend to be). And how do we define it? For all we know it could be 2v1s that people are fighting and that is how they define it. I remember picking up a mesmer for the first time and owning in hotjoin too. Must be easy, right?
And facing your own profession and somebody who is more experienced can also teach you that hey, I still have a lot to learn about how to master this class and play it to its full capability and that maybe I am not so unstoppable as I thought I was, and maybe, it isn’t so easy to be maximize my effectiveness Some classes are easier than others to pick up, but I think for the most part the gap closes quickly when talking about being masterful with their class. People who pick up warrior after playing another class just perhaps, maybe weren’t even very good with their original class to begin with. That is why when they pick up a class which is easier to understand and get a handle of, they do better. All possibilities need to be considered.
And even against other classes 1v1, typical warrior builds will struggle against Mesmers in general, condition engineers, a couple thief builds and dhuumfire necros although that is a little bit easier than the former classes i’ve mentioned. And most likely first time warriors will not be able to deal with them. That is where experience comes in and realizing that facerolling in some random hotjoin match isn’t the ceiling of the their potential; nor does it mean that is all there is to the class to learn.
Nobody here is talking about hotjoin, at least for me.
I’m talking about only TeamQ/SoloQ, when the team contribution and the chances to win fights are much higher on warriors compared to any other profession in the came, except perhaps some builds.When I pick up Warrior from Elementalist, my MMR skyrockets. Seriously, I just win fights way more often than I do with any other profession.
And I don’t even have Champion Legionaire.Ease to play is something, but when a build is also extremely effective while being easy to play, there it comes the “faceroll” definition.
Regarding skill telegraph, keep in mind that any telegraph is mitigated in PvP by the overabundance of Asuras and the huge clutter that fights usually have. So no, telegraph may make a difference in 1vs1 situations, but in teamfights, which is the situation when any hambow warrior wants to stay, skill telegraphs weight close to nothing.
And many people are talking about hot join/solo queue. Nobody denies (or that many people) that Hambow warriors are top tier builds in pvp. But so are Bunker Guardians (whom are arguably more essential than hambow warriors) and condition nukers such as Engis. Only thing that keeps Necros from top tier are hambow warriors. There are many other builds that are easy to play and can “faceroll” hard.
And not many people deny either that Elementalists are underpowered either, so comparing them to a warrior in PvP is baseless because they are also underpowered compared to many other classes. Besides, Warriors only have the hambow build that is truly viable in tournament play.
There is also more to balance than just PvP, in PvE it has been proven that warriors aren’t even the most damaging class. They can die just as easy to champions and elites. In WvW they get countered by many other builds 1v1 and in zerg fights, well, doesn’t really matter too much unless you run organized groups which in that case most of the classes are equally as helpful.
To achieve balance all modes need to be considered, or at least balanced separately if possible. And be weary that if people are calling for nerfs (mainly to the hambow build that has already been nerfed) that they will make already non-viable builds even more non-viable.
I must be doing it wrong, gaining adrenaline is always an issue. Every moment you’re in combat its a huge issue.
between versatile rage, being constantly being hit while also hitting targets, it really shouldn’t be a huge issue. Especially when mesmer clones or some form of AI is attacking you as well.
Guess what, life is unfair, deal with it. I’ve played 2K+ hours, alot of it doing World Boss Train and dungeons and I’ve never got a precursor, let alone found an item that was worth more than 7g.
I have a friend who has played the same amount as me, but he has found 4 precursors. Mjolnir which is an item that is worth 1K Gold +, a +15 agony infusion.
However sometimes that is just the way it is, just like we are here in NA enjoying playing GW2 while there are starving children in Africa.
Just don’t count on getting really amazing drops and work for your stuff. Doing a couple dungeon runs a day, Champ/WBT trains for 1-2 hours a day and you will be making money and before you know it you will have enough for a pre. Just know that a lot of people are in the same boat as you are.
Read my other posts, which explains what my point is and why arguing about telegraph in particular is pointless.
By the way, your logic is flawed. If warrior is faceroll easy to play, then the ones which has little more experience win or it is a matter of luck. A more reasonable comparison is to match any warrior with a bit of PvP experience against any other profession, even against more experienced players.
That said, there are two kind of skills. Profession knowledge and game basics. Point is that the profession knowledge of warrior is so shallow that you mostly just learn what the skills do and jump in a fight mindlessly. There is no other finesse tied to the profession.
Many people reroll warrior in PvP to be competitive not only because of easy it is to play, but also because it is a big threat even against very experienced players.
I’ve read it and while i do see your point there is a clear difference between having telegraphed skills and not having telegraphed skills. And one would obviously want the latter. It does detract from the class because you become more predictable and people can in turn counter that predictability. And having in game general knowledge also entails knowing warrior animations and knowing when to dodge them. And also having map awareness to better prevent being ganked by another player.
Fair enough, my logic might be flawed in that regard, however I mentioned it for a different purpose in which I will get back to later. But facerolling with a warrior in hotjoins doesn’t really hold any weight whatsoever (which many of these claims tend to be). And how do we define it? For all we know it could be 2v1s that people are fighting and that is how they define it. I remember picking up a mesmer for the first time and owning in hotjoin too. Must be easy, right?
And facing your own profession and somebody who is more experienced can also teach you that hey, I still have a lot to learn about how to master this class and play it to its full capability and that maybe I am not so unstoppable as I thought I was, and maybe, it isn’t so easy to be maximize my effectiveness Some classes are easier than others to pick up, but I think for the most part the gap closes quickly when talking about being masterful with their class. People who pick up warrior after playing another class just perhaps, maybe weren’t even very good with their original class to begin with. That is why when they pick up a class which is easier to understand and get a handle of, they do better. All possibilities need to be considered.
And even against other classes 1v1, typical warrior builds will struggle against Mesmers in general, condition engineers, a couple thief builds and dhuumfire necros although that is a little bit easier than the former classes i’ve mentioned. And most likely first time warriors will not be able to deal with them. That is where experience comes in and realizing that facerolling in some random hotjoin match isn’t the ceiling of the their potential; nor does it mean that is all there is to the class to learn.
healing surge can be used twice in 40 seconds? It has a 35 second CD. So I am assuming you’re using it at start of fight to gain full adrenaline, even though you have full health and again on cool down? Also with my current set up, even if i did use it twice, that would only need me 14K w/ the assumption being made I am never at full adrenaline for long and adrenal healing scales only with adrenaline and not your healing static.
It has a 30 second CD. And within 10 seconds it isn’t out of the realm of impossibility to take 10K damage by say a class like a thief, although you really shouldn’t in a 1v1. But in group fight scenarios that can be definitely the case if you are getting focused. It isn’t also out of the realm of impossibility to have full adrenaline by then. So that is a 10K Heal within 10 seconds. Then 30 seconds later you use it again for another 10K Heal, that is 20K. While it may be the case you are not at full adrenaline by the time your heal is up and you need to use it, one would hope a Warrior would save their burst mechanic when the heal is coming close to off cooldown.
So 20K in 40 seconds is about 500 HP/Sec, compared to the healing signets 400 HP/Sec.
Have to call BS on this.
More punishing? A decent elementalist will never have to auto-attack. Ever. Long cooldowns may be true, but you have an abundance of skills. Missing an important skill is hurtful to any clkitten to an elementalist I’d even dare say.
And about the telegraphing, you tripping? At least elementalists can use non-telegraphed (as in instant) skills viably. Warriors get three interrupts with a short cast time (mace 3, rifle 5 and kick). That’s it. EVERY other warrior skill is as telegraphed as you can get.
Some of the strongest skills are untelegraphed/unavoidable.
Pin Down is 1/4s casting time and with little to no telegraph except for the projectile travel time.
Combustive Shot is unavoidable.
Whirlwind and Backbreaker on hammer are relatively telegraphed. Backbreaker has strong reseblance with other hammer swings while whirlwing has really short casting time, yet they are extremely strong.
Arcing Arrow has pretty much no telegraph once you cast it on close range, which happens quite much in PvP since warriors are one of the few profession which can walk on points and walk away alive.
Whirlwind Attack is one of the most damaging skills on GS, second only to hundred blades, and it has no telegraph whatsoever because of how fast it is.That said, the problem of animations and telegraph becomes a non-issue when you make an Asura.
On the other hand, having light armor, low HP pool and being squishy like kitten is not fixed when you make a Norn.
Pin Down’s cast time might be quick but this skill is also easy to miss and a lot of things can contribute to that. For example a random aegis proc as you casted it, a random blind. Or just people randomly dodging without actually seeing it. It also has a 25 second cooldown and for the most part only hits one person. From farther range it also isn’t too difficult to just simply dodge it.
I can’t believe people are talking about it being not telegraphed in melee. Most range skills in melee are and that is the consequence of being in melee sometimes and the choice you make. However range skills are very clunky in melee and you probably would take a lot more damage in melee before you land pindown.
I would like to see some of these warriors who have claimed to faceroll within the first few hours to fight some more experienced warriors and see how that goes.
Any class is just as easy to play in PvE
The biggest problem is IMO is actually the active heal. If we reduce the passive without doing something to make the active useful, we are just creating a different problem. Truly the active on this skill right now is in the following place. When I see someone press it I think “No No No don’t do that!” We are discussion some options here so if you want this to be constructive give suggestions towards improving the active. Reducing the passive is easy to do but we will not do it without solving the other problem. Also we will not greatly reduce it because it is giving Warriors a sense of sturdiness that we want their profession to have. Without strong heals, Warriors feel too much like everyone else. Setting them apart with strong heals has been good for changing their playstyle feel, but we agree it needs some tweaks.
Jon
I appreciate reading the perspective of a dev about healing signet.
My problem with healing signet is that it promotes passive play and it has no hard counter.
My idea on how to make it include active play and conscious choice is:
The higher health you have the more healing signet passive heals for. As your health gets lower the passive gets weaker. But the active gets stronger.
So:
From 100-75% passive: 400hp per sec active: 3,275
From 75-50% passive is 200hp per sec, active: 6,250
From 50%-0% passive is 100hp per sec, active 9,800Now we have counter play involved, if you can get the warrior hp down it forces them to make a choice of dealing with the lower regen or taking the risk of using the extra heal from the active portion.
I actually, like the general concept of this idea, probably one of the best ideas for Healing Signet Changes.
Warriors are so OP now they can knock people out of stability xD
Ok, I could understand nerfing some of our mobility skills but reducing Hundred Blade damage really? It is a stationery skill that relies on CC for it to land and even then somebody can stunbreak or cure conditions and will 95% of the time not land the full channel. That suggestion is just lol, I can’t believe people still think hundred blades should be nerfed.
Adding a new condition just to counter a unique mechanic of a specific... Now that is just outright biased and ridiculous it isn’t even funny. How about if you suggest that, that you also suggest new conditions to slow lifeforce regen, cause longer CD’s on attunement, shatter, virtue skills, etc.
And clearly you said 90% of warriors run around with greatsword ... which isn’t even remotely true at all. Alot more people run with hammers, swords and shields than greatsword, at least in WvW. In tPvP you rarely ever see a warrior with a GS and even in hotjoins or solo queue hammers, longbows are all more common. And saying that it is our most useful weapon clearly expresses your lack of knowledge of this class. Insane DPS against who? 3 AFK targets or mobs? This is just .... lol.
I actually like Reckless Dodge and in my opinion it is one of the more interesting traits a warrior has. As a Warrior, dodging into somebody is something that I would want to do as a melee. It closes the gap while dodging abilities. And the damage it does is not negligable at all. Don’t underestimate it, I do 2K crits on average. It is a little bit buggy and I think they should change how it lands on people and perhaps increase the radius.
Every class as a trait involving jumping from walls, and it really isn’t that useless.
Too lazy to comment on some of the others, but I agree with most of them.
I think Necro’s should be able to heal in Death Shroud from other sources of healing besides their utility.
It would be very stupid to completely rework a heal that 80% of warriors use and is a good part of what keeps warriors viable in tPvP. That my friend is called knee-jerk balancing and drastically changing it so much can come with unintended consequences.
Besides, Healing Signet doesn’t need a major overhaul. All A-Net needs to do is lower the regen from it about 50-60 points or so and make the active worth using, or perhaps make it scale differently. That is all. Tired of people trying to reinvent the wheel in what they perceive is balance when simplicity is the better answer in this case.
You might remember that Berserkers stance was changed. Not really any unintended consequences there. The only consequence is that people cannot unload all of their conditions and expect someone to go down now.
Difference is, Berserker Stance pre-rework was barely ever used at all. And this was much before warriors ever became viable in tPvP play so the chances of unintended consequences of this rework was quite low.
Healing Signet, on the other hand is part of what keeps a warrior viable in tPvP play and just totally reworking it because people say is OP is knee-jerk balancing; you risk breaking the class in that mode of play and besides it doesn’t make sense at all to totally rework it.
And as far as the “just learn how to roll” comment that was made, tell me how rolling helps me at all when almost every warrior in PvP brings longbow so they can just spam combustive shot on point.
Where as classes like Necros can spam mass wells and marks, Engis mass grenades so I don’t get your point with combustive shot.
Read the rest of the thread. I’ll bet you that Necro is still in light armor and that Engineer in medium, and neither are regenerating around 500 hp/s.
Signet of rage paired with Cleansing Ire, Furious, Sharpened Axes, Inspiring Shouts, Versatile Rage, etc. and the basic way adrenaline gain works ensures that you won’t have difficulty building it back up.
Yeah, and Necro has Death Shroud, and with all the water blasting an Engi can do they can heal well over 500 HP/S. We might have heavy armor but it is something like 14% compared to light and 7% compared to medium. And an Engi has decent access to protection which more than makes up for it.
And Signet of Rage is rarely used for the passive so you can’t really count that as adrenaline gain. I would also hope in tourny play they would carry Battle Standard instead.
Nobody carries sharpened axes (let alone uses axe), furious rarely sees a whole lot of play, shouts aren’t really used in PvP.
It is really only one build that is causing people so much grief and that is the hambow build. Most other builds are average at best and can be easily countered.
Well, good thing GS is a weapon that isn’t taken just for running away.
It would be very stupid to completely rework a heal that 80% of warriors use and is a good part of what keeps warriors viable in tPvP. That my friend is called knee-jerk balancing and drastically changing it so much can come with unintended consequences.
Besides, Healing Signet doesn’t need a major overhaul. All A-Net needs to do is lower the regen from it about 50-60 points or so and make the active worth using, or perhaps make it scale differently. That is all. Tired of people trying to reinvent the wheel in what they perceive is balance when simplicity is the better answer in this case.
100B doesn’t even have the largest burst in the game considering how long it takes to channel. Despite being easy to evade doesn’t make it useless in WvW or PvP whatsoever. And for many obvious reasons.
Any attempt at an “all around” build which claims to be effective in all content is ridiculous and a complete waste of time. No build can do everything moderately okay – trying to make an “all around” build just ends up gimping yourself in every aspect of the game meaning you will be getting rick rolled in WvW, and end up useless in a PvE environment.
Use a different build for everything, trait resetting is super cheap, and keep different gear sets for each content. Even if you can’t afford multiple exotic gear sets, this is the still better option just using rare equipment – someone in full rare Berserker gear will be better than anybody running a “tanky” exotic Soldier build in a PvE environment, but running exotic Berserker in a WvW Zerg will not be as beneficial as rare Soldiers or Knights.
Oh, and no matter what, Divinity runes, and celestial stats in general, are junk. Absolute junk. Don’t use them.
All of what you basically said here is not necessarily true whatsoever, and not all aspects of the game is about min/maxing. Maybe when PvE is concerned yes when you are running with a group you know well, but in WvW and PvP it is different depending on what type of role you want to play.
While it is true that there is no one build that boasts maximum effectiveness in all content, that doesn’t mean going for an all-around build in specific content such as WvW is necessarily a bad route to go. Of course depending on weapon/trait choices and utilities that best synergize with each other in an all-around build. And there are builds that can do kitten nearly everything moderately OK. WvW consists of mostly zerg vs zerg fights and usually the outcome of these fights are determined by numbers or tactics. Having all-around stats has nothing to do with getting “rick-rolled” in zerg based combat and if you are talking about roaming, this isn’t necessarily true either. Because some “all-around” builds do reasonably well in most situations rather if you are going for more of the min-max route you do extremely well in some situations and bad in others.
Ofc it is possible to suck in most situations because one has opted for the all-around route but again that depends on a lot of things and certainly isn’t the rule.
And somebody in rare Berserker gear are likely to die a few times in PvE content so it isn’t necessarily better than full exotic Soldiers. And somebody in Full Exotic Berserker Gear can be really useful in WvW (i.e: Rifle build) for their ability to burst down single targets with ease. Where as somebody in rare soldier gear will die almost as fast because rare gear has no armor and they do no damage.
Divinity Runes are certainly way overpriced but that doesn’t mean they are bad choices to augment stats that you may be lacking a little bit of. Me I would much rather have some utility in my runes (i.e: Shouts remove conditions, clean all conditions and gain all buffs for 5 seconds, etc). And celestial stats are not junk, as long as you can make major use of every single stat that it increases. I’ve seen some successful WvW builds that make use of celestial gear, and that includes Warrior.
diference between guard to warrior is you dont have to build for healing power as healing signet base regen is 405 hps then theres the adrenaline regen of 360 hp and there ya go 760 hp/s without healing power armor nor trinkets
it’s 360 hp per 3 secs with adrenaline regen and with hambow builds so called adrenaline spamming it hardly kicks in.
And as far as the “just learn how to roll” comment that was made, tell me how rolling helps me at all when almost every warrior in PvP brings longbow so they can just spam combustive shot on point.
Where as classes like Necros can spam mass wells and marks, Engis mass grenades so I don’t get your point with combustive shot.
8K Backstabs are actually alot, and easier to land than warrior bursts. As a thief, I think that you are one of the classes that should have the least amount of problems with a warrior disengaging as the Thief is the king of that.
Seems like you need more mobility on your thief if that is a problem. And if bolas or stuns are what’s screwing you again you probably could use moves like shadowstep, having more evades, etc.
As a warrior main, I can tell you that having the ability be very evasive, having high incombat mobility really messes with a warrior. If you really want to mess with a warrior Daze is probably one of your best options too. Blinds work effectively as well, and make sure to have some poison to prevent the warrior from regenning highly between bursts.
Basilisk Venom traited with cooldown is also highly useful. And with that you can use Lyssa runes to get Aegis and Protection which helps act as a buffer against burst. Overall you just have to be patient in your approach and slowly wittle him down with repeated bursts. Healing Signet can’t heal the damage very well if you put decent pressure on the warrior.