Guild Wars 2

Since the destruction of LA, I’ve been hanging around in DR more often. I hadn’t noticed anything in the past weeks, but for the last several days I’ve seen more than a few similar bots. They are always similar looking level 2 human female rangers with typical bot-ish (face meet keyboard) names.

None of that is odd, but these are very commonly in guilds. And not whatever guild their newly stolen account happened to be in. I’ve even seen a few that have been in the same guild. The guild names are usually typical bot-ish names, but are occasionally names with keyboard mashed guild tags. The guilds with names seem to be ancient Greek/Latin names.

Most of them stand around in the open near the bank/TP area for a while, then will eventually move in to where to guild banker is. I don’t think they are gold-spam bots, because I’ve not received PMs from any of them.

Nothing about this is really surprising or special, but it’s just something to keep an eye out for to get this new bot waved cleaned up.

There have already been several times when GW2 has been nothing more than a game I log into on my laptop just to chat with friends and guildies. Only actually playing the game when I’ve been pulled along into doing something. That’s probably as close to quitting as it gets for me, as long as friends still actively play.

I’ll be playing another MMO in a few weeks, and GW2 will be acting as a pretty 3D chatroom on the side of my desk. If my friends quit or move on, I’ll just not bother logging in any more. There won’t be a “why I quit” tantrum on the forums. Quite frankly, there would be just too many reasons behind that to even take the time to post about. But I will likely still keep an eye on these forums, and occasionally post.

Zonzai.2341:

I played GW1 from beta to GW2 launch. Then I played GW2 for three months and uninstalled it.

I played GW1 shortly after launch, set it aside for a few months, then returned in late 2005 and stayed till GW2 launch.

I’ve been around in GW2 since launch, but for a long time GW2 has been nothing but a game I log into mainly because of friends. I’ll do a daily, a few loot pinata world bosses, and the occasional dungeon (with said friends).

Up till around May of 2013, I was a very active wvw player. That was the main thing keeping me actually playing GW2, till character-bound/anti-alt WXP put a huge dent in that desire. I drifted in and out of wvw since, but never got as hooked as I was before. More recent and upcoming changes have just further lessened my drive to do wvw.

The upcoming “Spring Tournament”, and its server-bound rewards that do nothing but encourage server and community destroying bandwagoning, has finished off my desire for wvw. It became completely clear to me that Anet has no interesting in making the tournament experience better for players, they only want to use it to encourage gem sales from server changes. I don’t blame the players for moving server when it’s obvious that your current server has no chance of giving you the maximum reward. People want the most exclusive rewards for playing, and Anet is abusing the fact that the only way to get that is to spend gems and change server.

Ascended gear and other changes have definitely effected my desire to play GW2, but Anet’s treatment of wvw has had the biggest impact. The reward system in place for this tournament is just sickening, and toxic for our servers and wvw communities.

matjazmuhic.1649:

Sadly this is the direction most of the new games are taking nowadays. This quote from guildwars2guru.com is a good summary of what’s happening.

To quote Ramin Shokrizade "You will see that the latest generation of casual gamers is actually somewhat crippled in their ability to master even simple games compared to the previous generation. I propose that this is because this generation is so over stimulated compared to previous generations that the reward mechanisms for games have to be stronger and more quickly delivered to capture the attention of contemporary audiences or otherwise they get bored/discouraged much more quickly. "

The worst part is that we’re to a point where games don’t even have a reward system…or even gameplay mechanics in some cases. You just buy whatever you want with real money. Everything is turning into a Facebook/mobile “game” where all you do is decorate a virtual house with cash shop trinkets.

At that point, you’re just paying for access to a shopping mall to spend even more money, and a place to hang out to show off the things you bought.

I’m not claiming that GW2 is at that point, but it sure does have some aspects of it.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I felt that long time players should have more prestige than what’s already offered with the HoM rewards. Free skins and an exclusive title is nice, but I would have rather had my Tormented weapons able to be passed down to my current character. Would have been even better if the Tormented weapons were exclusive to GW1 players who worked hard for them.

I can’t really disagree with that, but that would have needed to happen back in 2012. It’s too late to be giving exclusives to GW1 players. We are a big part of why Anet was successful and were able to make GW2, but we are a minority in GW2’s playerbase today. The time for exclusive items for us is long over.

Gene Archer.8560:

As far as I’ve ever seen, what people said is that if the only choices for skins are between gemstore RNG gambling chests or just putting them directly into the gemstore, then just put them directly into the gemstore so that people don’t have to deal with only a small chance at getting said skin.

That seems much more likely to me. I know I’d take direct purchase, given those two choices. But obtaining the items totally in-game via drops/crafting/dungeons/etc is still the best option.

It’s truly a sad day for gaming if more people are wanting items via cash shops than gameplay.

chemiclord.3978:

Not even close to what you think happens.

Shareholders have NO direct say in how a company is run, much less someone with 15% of the shares. They get money and occasionally a meeting where they are told what is happening. If they don’t like what is happening, they sell. THAT is the power of a shareholder. They put in money with the expectation that they’ll get more money back.

About the only time a shareholder directly impacts a company is in the election of a person onto the Board of Directors. And you need a LOT more than a 15% share in order to push a hand-picked person onto said board. Otherwise you have to compromise with other shareholders to get that clout.

The voting can be more than just for board members. And even if it were just for that, having a higher percentage of the stocks than anyone else (excluding NC) can definitely tip the scales in a board election. It’s not going to get you a handpicked member on the board, but it can get one that is favorable for your own intentions.

As for the monetization manager, the timing does make it seem a bit suspicous. Showing up for your new job, with control over how the company’s primary profit source operates, just before your previous employer buys a big chunk of the shares. It’s entirely possible that her hiring was part of the purchase arrangement. Assuming that sold shares were held by NC, and not some other shareholder, that’s a large influx of money for them. Hiring one person could be a small price to pay for that.

It’s well within reason to think that bringing in someone into a position of power within Anet could be a prerequisite to that sale. NCsoft gets their money, and Nexon gets an added bit of security that GW2’s gemstore gets plenty of monetization to make their investment worthwhile.

It’s not a dark conspiracy. It’s business. A pretty smart move at that. NC gets their shares sold off, and gets a new employee to help ensure GW2’s gemstore makes as much money as possible. Nexon gets a solid investment, with the added security that someone they trust is in charge of their investment’s biggest cash cow. There is no dark plan to destroy Anet or NC. They both just want money.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

people said they wanted it that way, and would rather like to have premium skins through the Gem Store.

I think that’s the most frightening aspect of if all. That’s the ‘plague’ I mentioned in an earlier post.

Are there really that many people that would prefer to pay out of their wallet instead of playing the game? What are they doing in the game? Endgame goals largely(primarily even) cosmetic and vanity items, so if you’re just buying those with cash, why did you even buy a video game?

That’s not any better than paying to get past an arbitrary 6 hour timer in a mobile game.

We’re going to end up at a point where a “video game” is just a level you stand around in to show off items you bought in a cash shop, with no actual gameplay being included at all.

People need to take a step back and just look at what they are throwing their money at. At the amount they are giving up, and what the are actually getting in return for that. It’s not a good value at all. You can buy entire games for the prices being paid for single items.

I’m fine with adding skins via the gemstore as extras, but the problem is that is nearly all we are getting for new weapon skins. Combined with the fact that they are stuck in the BL RNG/lottery chests, with rather low drop chances plus requiring multiple drops, and it’s just too much.

These should sold at something like $5 each, not an average of $55 worth of gambling. The most appalling fact is that someone at Anet actually thinks a single weapon skin should be worth $55 (current set discount) or $275 (full price for previous).

Having other non-cash means of getting those does ‘ease the blow’ to some degree. But it does not change the fact that someone thinks these skins are really worth that much cash.

I’d also be a lot more ok with this if they were actually adding weapons/skins attainable via gameplay. Even new Mystic Forge recipe weapons would be better than everything being in the gemstore.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

It’s just not really something I see as a major focus of the game. It’s a minor focus, but this stuff was started long before Guild Wars 2. Shall we discuss “Game of the Year bonus items” with unique art, or the costumes?

Those items in GW1 were the exceptions, not the norm like they are in GW2. Typing /bonus on my GW1 account which has every available bonus item gives me 14 weapons. That’s less than a single set of BL ticket weapons in GW2. And the costumes cost less than most (all?) comparable items in GW2, on top of the fact that you get an infinite number of copies you can retrieve from an NPC. That’s a lot better value than a single copy you’re stuck storing.

Aside from the pvp/pet/skill unlock packs, there is about $215 worth of extras in GW1’s store. That’s including the 8-pack of Mercenary Hero Slots. Those items were added over the course of several years. GW2’s gemstore had over $75 worth of merchandise added in the last 30 days alone, and total non-consumable items available already more than double what GW1’s store has.

Add in the monetization from all the BL weapons, and the dollar amounts are simply staggering.

I am with you on the earning of keys via personal story. I’ve done a little of that myself, and I won’t even consider using cash to buy BL keys. But the fact that these skins keep getting pushed out more frequently is evidence that they are seeing significant profits from key sales, either directly from the cash gem buyers or indirectly though gold>gem buyers.

Nage.1520:

You’re equating the release of a set of cosmetic weapon skins (which aren’t content as far as I can tell), with the release of an entire zone?

I was comparing the amount of content in that release with amount of gem store moneziation it included.

The issue is exactly that these skins are not content in any way. These skins and monetization are what we are getting instead of content. These skins could (and I feel should) be rewards for game content. Or at least rewards for doing something in game.

I make no claims that there are a large number of people that want every weapon in a set. But there are a lot that would want multiple weapons, especially those of us that play multiple characters and builds. And that weapon is something I will see and use every time I play that character or use that build.

The number of people that want 1,2,3, or the whole set does not alter the fact that $1000 worth of BL ticket weapons were added along with rather small bits of playable content. Even going with the TP and gem exchange, nearly $400 is still a huge amount of monetization, accompanying a rather small content release.

I also made no argument about the weapon skins taking a long time to get. The situation is quite the opposite, actually. Adding items via the gemstore is a matter of dropping cash for instant gratification. You’re getting items for opening your wallet instead of playing the game.

edit:
And all of that monetization is on top of the $76 worth of merchandise added directly to the gemstore in the last 30 days.

KarlaGrey.5903:

What ticks me off most is not that they added the weapons, but that players can be manipulated so easily (and that in a buy2play game!) and end up buying such things repeatedly, thus granting the company extra revenue

This is what has me worried for the game industry as a whole. There are far too many companies and games succeeding at disgusting tactics because people are so willing to allow themselves to be ripped off.

Mobile games are some of the worst examples of this plague infecting video games.
Here are some nice examples
http://youtu.be/GpdoBwezFVA
http://youtu.be/w_AgjWkNGew
(language warning on both of those videos)

Both of those games are many many times worse than anything that has happened in GW2, or anything I could imagine ever happening in GW2, but all of them do rely on the same type of gamer. The gamer that is so willing and eager to throw their money at the most absurd and overpriced items in any game, just to have a new shiny thing right now.

This is a complete disregard for a sense of value of your own money, and lack of caring about the actual gameplay experience in favor of getting a new shiny. All this does is encourage companies to continue with these tactics and keep pushing the limits of how much these players are willing to pay for.

If someone is willing to part with $50 for a single item in a game, then happily play through this month’s 1 hour of new content, why should the developers bother to make more content? They have a horde of suckers ready to open their wallets in return for very little effort or new content.

Video games are supposed to be about the gameplay, not about how many new skins you can buy with your credit card each month, or how fast you can progress by throwing money at the game to skip timegates.

Maybe I’m just imagining it, but I think the situation is getting worse in GW2. The more recent living story updates seem to have less content than previous ones. Even the achievements and busy-work seem to take less time/effort to complete. And the gemstore is gaining new items faster than ever.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

A R W E N.6895:

Nage.1520:

TehPwnerer.7215:

Zypher.7609:

TehPwnerer.7215:

I haven’t played the game since December because of all the crappy stuff that gets added to the game. 90% of every update is just gem store nonsense so I don’t even bother.

Ahh yes, because you have not played you know that 90% of the update is gemstore? This last patch was about 10% store with 90% being LS events. Please do not post your knowledge of something that you do not even play.

Really? Read my post. I get the updates in the email that are the overviews of the new patches. 90% of every patch is RNG and Gem store related. The other 10% is a stupid hat or back skin and the temporary content update overview for the next two weeks.

So you base your knowledge of the game on a one page email?

Saying that 90% of every patch is RNG and Gem store related is demonstrably untrue. If you’d said 90% of each patch is about new achievements that drive people nuts, you’d be closer.

Open your launcher and count the amount of things that talk about the gem store addition.

Come back here and say it out loud

As of now: 9 Announcements on the Launcher – 6 about content – 3 about Gem Store additions. I was pretty good at math in school, so I’m thinking that’s not 90%, or even a majority.

I see 4 about the gem store, 2 about patch notes, 1 about content, 1 about the upcoming WVW tournament, an announcement about pvp glory changes, and an announcement about their Google+ profile.

So that is…
4 for gemstore
1 for content
5 for general information

Gemstore is outweighing content 4:1 on the launcher.

chemiclord.3978:

And out comes the tinfoil hat brigade.

One more time… Nexon’s share gives them the power to do absolutely kitten all. They don’t have majority control, they don’t even have enough shares to push someone onto the Board of Directors.

ANYTHING that Arena.net thinks players will be willing to spend cash dollars on is GOING to be in the gem store, because it’s their primary revenue stream. It wouldn’t take Nexon’s “influence” to convince them of that. That’s just common business sense. Arena.net exists to make money first and foremost, and always has.

It’s okay to take off the tin foil. There is no conspiracy at play.

Actually, they own just shy of 15%, and are the largest shareholder (aside from NC itself). That means Nexon has more say in how the NCSoft/Anet is run than any other shareholder. They aren’t in control, but they most certainly do have the power needed to have an influence on company operations, or tip board member elections in their favor.

edit: And let’s not forget the fact that Anet’s ‘monetization manager/producer’ came from Nexon just before their stock purchase. I believe that position didn’t actually exist before she came to fill it.

risa.1382:

The issue there is that they deliberately made the ascended grind so ridiculous to make you feel like spending money on gems is a good idea.

I’m sure that was at least part of the reasoning for making those materials tradable instead of bound. If I were actually bothering to craft ascended gear the whole idea of it being to “keep crafting profitable” would be utterly pointless for me, as I’d be spending a year or more using every last piece of D-steel/E-leather/damask to craft gear for 8 characters. Their stated purpose would apply to those only making 1-2 sets of it, but I find it hard to believe that their motives were purely to benefit crafters.

risa.1382:

There might have been one piece of silver lining in there, being that these skins don’t hold a candle to the quality of the originals. But then I realized that I’m even more insulted from them thinking they could use my love of GW1 to make me gamble on these things without even putting in the effort to get them right.

I have to agree there. The new Tormented weapons, with a few exceptions, are a big step down from their GW1 counterparts. I had several in GW1, but the only GW2 Tormented weapon I would even consider is the shield. And I’m certainly not putting any real money towards that, or anything else in GW2. I’m at a point where I have to question even buying them with gold, as that still supports this entire over-monetization system they’ve set up.

AEFA.9035:

Here is an answer why all of weapon skins are in black lion chest and armor skins are in gem store. Forget about the lore in GW1, forget original GW entirely, clearly we have no place in this game.

ANet has changed

http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Meleagar/112012/24237_NCSoft-Sold-Arenanet-and-GW2-Out-For-Nexon-Investment

There is some truth in that, I think the general point is right. I’ve always believed that Nexon’s influence was all over the insane amounts of monetization GW2 has. But there are a lot of factual errors and incorrect assumptions, mainly regarding ascended gear. You can’t buy it off the TP, but you can buy your way around the primary timegates (Deldrimor steel, damask, Elonian leather). You’re still stuck gathering up quite a bit of other bound items, but none of it is timegated.

The pay2win argument doesn’t really hold up well. You can pay to get something faster/sooner, which is p2w in a temporary and minor way. But you can’t pay to get anything exclusive that improves your character…at least not outside of the temporary armor/strenght/regen/speed boosts available from BL chests. I think those items are more p2w than using gems>gold to get ascended (or even exotic) gear faster.

Nage.1520:

Let me ask you a simple question. A month ago, Anet released Edge of the MIsts an entire WvW map. It’s pretty big. It’s an entire zone. What was in the cash shop for that update that represented 90% of the update? I’m genuinely curious.

That’s the patch that added Lovestruck weapons, which at the time took an average of over $1000 ($5000 now) in Black Lion Keys to obtain a full set of, or about $55 ($275 now) each. On the conservative and smarter side, you can exchange about $300 worth of gems to buy them on the TP at around $15 each. (note that the entire supply of these weapons still depends on BL keys being bought/farmed)

Just looking at a single weapon purchase, is EotM really worth $55, or even just $15? What about $300, or $1000 for the full set? Compared to the amount of playable content added, the gem store got a massively disproportionate addition. I think I’d put EotM down for $5 DLC at most, which still gives $5 to $300+ (at the conservative end) comparison between content and skin monetization. With those numbers, 10% content is actually being extremely generous. And this isn’t even including the other gemstore merchandise added at the same time.

And the huge difference in the value placed on claim ticket weapons by Anet ($55-275) and the players that have acquired them ($10-$25) says something on its own. Anet has an absolutely absurd concept of just how much these skins are/should be worth. I could buy several full-price games for the BL key cost of a single weapon.

edit: amusing note
I had to edit this a couple times because the kitten filter didn’t like ‘$5’ being put after the letter ‘a’

Nilkemia.8507:

Admittedly though, the ending really did leave more questions than answers. What was the point of gathering all those armies if she was just going to drill a hole in the ground to force some energy elsewhere to wake up a dragon?

She was supposedly using them to gain things she needed to pull this off, but all she really needed in the end was the aetherblades for an army and the dredge sonic/drilling tech. And it’s arguable that with her ridiculous amount of gathered knowledge, she should have been able to develop that on her own. The toxic miasma helped with clearing out LA, but the majority of the damage was done by the aetherblade airships.

Maybe she intended to kill the dragon, and needed the other armies to do so. The powerful toxic miasma and ship-mounted lasers seem to be overkill for taking LA, but might be needed for killing a dragon.

The Marionette was also not very well suited for fighting ground troops, and its chains would have made it difficult to use in LA. But it could have done well in combat against a single large opponent, like a dragon.

It really is too late to be expecting exclusives for GW1 players. I think they should have used Tormented/Destroyer weapons as GW2 HOM rewards back in 2012, but not now. Like them or not, we got our exclusives a year and half ago.

I don’t have a problem with Anet adding these weapons for everyone. My only issue is with them (like almost everything else) being stuck into the gemstore. That is a slap in the face to GW2 players and GW1 vets alike.

It’s probably not fair to say that the gemstore is 90% of every update, but it is certainly a huge part of it. About 2-3 hours of content, 5-6 hours of achievements/busy-work, and hundreds of dollars (often $1000+) worth of monetization each month.

…actually, maybe 90% isn’t all that unfair. There is over $500 worth of directly purchasable gemstore merchandise, not including consumable items. That’s just the permanent items and some upgrades (bank space/collectibles). Plus the fact that each weapon set added via claim tickets is introduced at an average price of over $1000 via keys. This price increases 5x after the first month to $5000.

Over $30,000 worth of monetization, in return for less content than a $60 expansion would have given.

Even looking at the lower cash cost of using gems to buy gold, and in turn buying the claim ticket weapons on the TP, the average cost of a weapon set is still over $650. That brings the total monetization to over $5000.

This is why we don’t have an expansion yet. They can make more money giving us things to throw money at instead of actual content.

Danikat.8537:

I may be remembering wrong (it was a while ago when EOTN was announced) but I don’t remember ever being told that the actual items would transfer between the games. At first they were very vague, only saying that adding stuff to the hall would unlock some type of rewards, and maybe some people assumed it would be a direct transfer but I don’t remember ArenaNet ever saying it.

I’m fairly sure they mentioned passing down items. I do recall them specifically stating that anything obtained via the HoM would not give any advantages/power in GW2 (ie; not giving us free exotic weapons to start with). I believe that statement was before the actual HoM items were known.

The general impression given was that the items obtained in GW2 would be related to the items added in GW1.

Zypher.7609:

mrstealth.6701:

Zypher.7609:

TehPwnerer.7215:

I haven’t played the game since December because of all the crappy stuff that gets added to the game. 90% of every update is just gem store nonsense so I don’t even bother.

Ahh yes, because you have not played you know that 90% of the update is gemstore? This last patch was about 10% store with 90% being LS events. Please do not post your knowledge of something that you do not even play.

This last patch is an hour or two worth of events and $1000 worth of gemstore items.

Tormented Weapons – 60-100 Gold in game, so at Gem – > Gold rate, about $20.
Minis – 500 gems, $6.25
New guild finisher, 800 gems, $10.00

Total: ~36.25

Difference from your total, $1000-36.25 = $963.75

Really not much else to say, besides learn to math.

As in a previous post in this thread, I’m referring to the cost of Black Lion Chest Keys required to get the 19 new weapons at an average of about $56 each, plus the cost from the two other gemstore items. A total of over $1000 in gem store merchandise.

Even using your method, that’s $20 per weapon, which is still nearly $400 worth of gemstore weapons.

edit: So even looking at this in the best possible way, that’s still $400 worth of monetization for 1-2 hours of game content. And the same price applies to any other release that includes a new BL weapon set. Even the previous release and the week before it had $50-60 worth of gemstore monetization.

Zypher.7609:

TehPwnerer.7215:

I haven’t played the game since December because of all the crappy stuff that gets added to the game. 90% of every update is just gem store nonsense so I don’t even bother.

Ahh yes, because you have not played you know that 90% of the update is gemstore? This last patch was about 10% store with 90% being LS events. Please do not post your knowledge of something that you do not even play.

This last patch is an hour or two worth of events and $1000 worth of gemstore items.

Decado.9304:

Who ever realistically thought that any of the HoM skins were going to be freely available for GW1 players to use within GW2? not even a remote possibility i ever considered…

I think it would have been reasonable to think that before the actual HoM skins were known. Especially considering all of the statements about the HoM being used to pass down things to your descendants.

And at least one of the actual skins from the HoM is a weapon even more rare/exclusive than Tormented.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

PSX.9250:

Brutal Arts.6307:

The audience for GW1 isn’t the audience for GW2. This game is aimed at the people that would spend hundreds of dollars on farmville or other casual facebook games.

^This.

/endthread<3

Not really, the people who would spend hundreds of dollars on Farmville or Candy Crush Saga (trademark) are already doing that and losing their plastic to the insidious lure.

The people who play Guild Wars 2 are mostly warriors, thieves, and the odd mesmer.

The individuals that are throwing large amounts of money at Facebook games are hooked on those, but it’s the same type of gamer that Anet is relying on for their gemstore sales. Those players that are happy to throw $20 at the game every 2 weeks to get the latest shiny things, instead of having items gained through gameplay.

Right now the entire gaming industry is heading down that road because there are enough people that will play sucker to it. That’s fairly obvious when the top rated/highest profit mobile games are ones that force hours of wait times that can only be bypassed with cash.

Every time a game wants you to break out your credit card to acquire something in game, that is taking away something you could have done ingame to get that item. A new dungeon, a new boss, a new zone to explore…nope, just typing in a credit card number. That’s ok for the occasional cosmetic, but not when it’s nearly every new weapon or armor that’s been added over 18 months.

Making money from your game is fine, but there has to be some value given to the customer for their money and time invested in gameplay. Trying to monetize almost every item added to the game is just going way too far, especially when you’re dealing with a game that is not free to play. Take this current release for example. We have an hour worth of new events/content, and over $1000 worth of gemstore items. That’s based on the average drop rate of Black Lion Claim Ticket Scraps and the price of Black Lion Keys.

Nick.6972:

Haven’t given a single $ to Arena Net since the release.
If I were to buy gems with real money, where would my money go? In supporting mediocre 1 hour bi-weekly Living Story content I haven’t even touched for 6 months?

They’re worth a few hours if you bother getting all of the achievements. But yeah, about an hour sounds right for seeing all there is to see in this release(and quite a few others). And quite a bit of the time for achievements is spent repeating things due to failures or achievements that are locked till after your first success.

The living story has at least gotten better with the last few releases, in both terms of the story and the content/event design. Unfortunately, the events tend to be added in very broken states that require several days of patching.

Still, the amount of content that’s actually been “added” (quotes because it’s all temporary) over the last year is small compared to what we would expect from a single retail expansion. Being somewhat generous, and giving an average of 3 hours of non-repeat/busy work content per release, that’s only 72 hours of playable content over a year worth of bi-weekly releases.

That is a decent amount of ‘free’ content, but how long would it take you to get through all the content in a full expansion? How long did it take to get through everything in GW2’s initial release? Every zone/heart, all the dungeons, etc. How long did it take to get through the added campaigns and expansion in GW1? Sure, you can rush through the main storyline in GW1’s campaigns, but that is only a small portion of the unique content each game has.

I think the part that does bother me the most with Anet’s statements is that they have claimed to have added an ‘expansion worth’ of content. It’s a claim I definitely challenge, and it doesn’t stand up very well at all after you see the fact that all but an hour or two of that content no longer exists. If a friend that had not played for 6-12 months asked you what was new, how much would you have to tell them about? And how much of that is only a story of events long gone, that they will never see for themselves?

Living story is certainly a good idea, and a good addition to the game. It just doesn’t work when it’s the only addition to the game.

How many sets have actually been added outside of the gemstore/BL chest system? I might have missed a set or two, but I think this is all of it.

Fractal weapons
Zenith weapons
Ascended weapons/armor
SAB weapons – partial credit, because they aren’t actually available outside of short periods
Wintersday toy/wooden weapons – same as SAB, limited availability
Champ reward weapons – partial credit, these were reskins

Then we have weapons that were temporarily available ingame, but later transferred to gemstore items.

Dragon’s Jade weapons
Aetherized Weapons
Incomplete Halloween weapon set
Scerlite weapons

And then finally the list of gemstore/claim ticket exclusives, which currently includes the above category.

Tormented
Lovestruck
Dreamthistle
Zodiac
Fused
Wintersday

Plus the fact that we have no armor sets added ingame, aside from Ascended. The gemstore currently has 12 new armor sets, not included the 3 that existed at release and the 3 reskinned Flame armor sets.

It’s pretty clear that adding non-monetized skins/armor is very low on the list of priorities. And even the ones available ingame currently are part of additions intended to be longterm goals (timegated ascended crafting, high level fractals, achievement rewards).

Razor.6392:

you guys should try spvp. condition builds there are brainless and win with little effort.

Or even in wvw outside of large zergs. And that just makes it much more obvious how poorly conditions are implemented for pve/large groups.

This recalculating condition damage each tick to account for changes in might/weapon swaps/etc needs to go. Just make them use whatever stat they were applied with (which actually makes the most sense, anyway) to conserve server CPU cycles and bandwidth. Less resources used on constantly tracking multiple points of condition data leaves room to allow for more stacks.

A mechanic that only allows for 25 stacks in a game where 100+ player events are intended to be common is just outright bad design.

ArmoredVehicle.2849:

My quarrel with this game is only one, the fact that I paid full price for a game that is buy to play but acts like a free to play one. I knew there was going to be a cash shop and all, but nowhere I expected ANet to go this far.

For the way I see it, enough is enough. I may still play the game for what it is but no way in my sane mind I’m going to buy any expansions or will ever buy gems with real money. Too many bridges have been burned.

Yeah, I’d be ok with their business practices if this was a free game. But it’s not ok when you’re charging a AAA title price of $60.

As for an expansion, I’m not sure if I’d buy it at this point or not. But I am definitely not giving any real cash for the gemstore.

ArmoredVehicle.2849:

ANet isn’t the same company GW1 players remember, lots of new people joined the team. GW2 is a cash cow, nothing more nothing less. Why bother release a proper expansion when you’ve got people paying 15 euro for a few gems? Unfortunately it’s the way they seem to think it.

Earlier today someone said this game was better off having monthly fees, I guess for once I agree with that argument.

In my 10 years of playing MMOs (15 playing PC games, 25 playing console games) I’ve only paid a sub fee to play one game, EVE Online. I did pay for a Minecraft server for quite some time, but that’s a bit different. I just didn’t feel that any of the pay games were worth the extra cost. I did play more than few free ones over the years. Some had ridiculous cash shops, but others were quite reasonable.

It has been GW2 that finally made me fed up with the cash shop idea, and come to actually prefer just paying $15/mo and not having to deal with crap like every new armor being gemstore only. The only saving grace of it is the ability to trade gold for gems, but that is still a concept I never did like. (but that’s not something to discuss here)

Henqquli.5078:

I just hope they return with dragon bash method. A chance to drop claim ticket from chests that you get from monsters.
But higher chance for those who buy gem version.

I think the Dragon Bash and Bazaar were the best living story events in terms of the reward availability. More so for the Bash, but the Bazaar still had Aetherized weapons as rare drops. That probably changed in later events because the gemstore bags weren’t selling enough.

I understand that Anet exists to make money, but there is a point at which the desire for money outweigh’s giving the players value for their money and a good game experience. That’s a line I think Anet has crossed more than a few times.

Randulf.7614:

Ive been told it could be due to a rapid disconnect and then a bit of lag on the reconnect message as it thinks you are still in the game.

I was thinking something along that line. With the server stress of patch day downloads and the rush to do new content, strange things like that are definitely possible.

Fighting the knights as a guardian, I’m on fire for a large portion of the fight thanks to my own profession mechanic. Sure, I can use the active Virtue of Justice, but that just sets 4 other people on fire with me. Oh, and I’m sure every other guardian is thinking the same thing and sharing their virtue in a nice vicious cycle of AoE burning.

Punishing for conditions is just so stupid when the game is designed to have condition builds (although it pathetically supports actually using them), and has minor traits or auto-attacks that cause conditions. For quite a few of us not applying conditions is simply not an option without completely reworking traits and weapons. Oh, and then we have us guardians that still cause burning no matter what we do.

Maybe the next living story should have a boss that punishes for/reflects critical hits.

I do agree that Tormented weapons should have been part of the original HoM rewards, but they decided to go with a few other iconic GW1 weapons along with a few new things. But I’m still fine with the fact that they didn’t put the Tormented weapons there, and that they are now available to anyone. I would actually be disappoint if the current GW2 versions of Tormented weapons were my only HoM skins, because I think most look much worse than their GW1 counterparts.

What I do think is a problem is the fact that every new skin we get is gemstore RNG box only. There have only been a handful of new skins added outside of what is available via Black Lion Claim Tickets. And much of what is available via the tickets are old skins from GW1 or obvious reskins of existing GW2 item. What is needed are new skins that are available in-game. And I don’t count buying it from the TP as in-game, since the supply of those items is still dependent on BL keys, which are primarily gemstore items.

The most insulting part is that they feel they deserve the same price for a re-used skin/model and a completely new design. I just don’t feel that slapping some fire onto a common armor skin warrants the same price as making something as original as Zodiac or Aetherblade armor.

The same thing happened to me and several others that landed in the same LA overflow afterwards. I’m guessing that message was incorrectly shown instead of a standard disconnect.

The portal gives you a warning about skipping story steps, so could it just be a shortcut to a final area that everyone gets after the hologram fights?

Or is that warning simply because I hadn’t done other steps yet?

It seems more than a bit stupid to include that as a gear-gated extra, but that’s what it looks like it is.

MightyMicah.7451:

Random fun fact!: The laurel vendor in lion’s arch had to be way pointed to or ran a fairly long distance to. It was not ever right next to everything else.

True, but waypointing within the same town/zone is usually a shorter load time than loading into a different zone.

Let’s just get this back on topic.

Edited by Moderation

Rangersix.1754:

They never said Vigil Keep was going to be the new central hub. Stop making stuff up to justify your irrational anger.

It is the central hub right now…

That may not be permanent, but the fact remains that is currently the central hub.

Alex.9567:

just a point to all the people who don’t agree with these types of convenient items remember all the kittenbags who do pay for them are actually funding the game for the whole community, so don’t discourage them, encourage them!

There are plenty of items in the gemstore to buy and support the game. They’ve added over $50 worth of items between this week and last week, not including these passes. I’ve bought plenty of gemstore items myself, using both cash-bought gems and gold-bought gems. Even the gold-bought gems are still supporting the game because the exchange market is fueled by the cash purchases of gems.

It’s not about not supporting the game, it’s about not supporting the removal of previously free conveniences for the sake of monetizing them. What if it was the bank, or the TP, was that missing from Vigil Keep and hidden away in the airship? Those are still available in every other city, but I think more people would be bothered by them being missing. Fewer people would care if it was just the laurel vendor. I think their choice of services to remove and place there was deliberate in order to ‘test the water’.

To me, it doesn’t matter which NPCs/services they’ve removed from the central hub, it’s the fact that they think removing any formerly free convenience and putting it in the gemstore is acceptable.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

If people are trying to sell me on the idea they knowingly created this whole thing as a means of going “premium” routes to keep taking away conveniences permanently? Why, then, isn’t this plausible?

It winds up amusing me people stop shy of a point when trying to say how evil and money-grubbing this is. If they were, this would be the case. (And I’ve seen it in other F2P games I played. I could name one company whose products are nice but otherwise marred by premium currency stuff.)

What’s worse, they now aren’t going to touch this with a ten foot pole because this topic is getting as radioactive as the Watchwork Pick topics which were incredibly overblown and also relied on assuming malice and total incompetence.

I think there is a decent gap between this, and how bad yanking the airship out at a later date would be. Selling a permanent pass to what ended up being a temporary service could have some valid claims of false advertisement, etc. There’s nothing dishonest or misdirecting about the Vigil Keep and airship, but I can’t say the same for that potential stunt. Which is why I don’t see that as being very likely to happen. They’ve made some stupid decisions, but I don’t think they are that stupid.

The watchwork pick I think was a mistake, but it’s not as bad as it’s made it out to be. I don’t even think it’s to the same level as the airship decision. It’s a bit worse if you take new players into consideration, because they won’t have access to sprockets in their home instance. We won’t really see how much of a problem it might be till (or if) the supply of sprockets dries up and people with home instance nodes and/or watchwork picks become the only source of the material.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

mrstealth.6701:

It’s reasonable to assume that the airship will remain available at whatever future hub exists, as they are selling permanent passes for it. It would make little sense to sell a permanent pass to a temporary area.

With the kind of incompetence and malice people are throwing at ANet over this, I am surprised nobody suggested this is, in fact, The Plan.

I did think of that as a remote possibility, but I don’t think Anet is dumb enough to attempt that stunt. The backlash for selling a permanent pass, then removing the area it allows access to would just be far too severe. Only the most rabid of fanboys would support such a move.

It would cause quite the amusing kittenstorm, but I just don’t see that one happening.

Ayrilana.1396:

No. That’s conjecture, not evidence.

A ton of services were added to the airship because that was what people wanted after the royal terrace was released. This isn’t some conspiracy to manipulate players.

Just look at the patch notes, or the two lines from it that I quoted above. It explicitly states that only some services from LA are included in the Vigil Keep, and that the airship is a “one-stop shop for all services”.

The crafting stations are clearly not in Vigil Keep. This is a fact, that the patch notes support being an intentional change, as it states that not all services will be in Vigil Keep.

First of all, I’m referring to the royal terrace and airship as separate entities regardless of what map they are in. I doubt people go into them just to wp to services outside.

Then you are not even looking at the issue or the point. The issue we have is with the changes made to services available in the host cities of the pass-only areas, compared to the services made available inside the pass-only areas. DR saw no changes to it’s own services, where as the central hub did have services excluded.

The comparison of services available in the Terrace, to those in the airship, is not related to the issue.

And you’re also making the assumption that the Vigil Keep thing is permanent. For all we know, they will just rebuild Lion’s Arch.

I never made that assumption. In fact, I expect LA to be rebuilt or for some other permanent hub to be established later on. But this does not change the fact that the current central hub has services intentionally excluded, while being intentionally included in the adjacent pass-only area.

It’s reasonable to assume that the airship will remain available at whatever future hub exists, as they are selling permanent passes for it. It would make little sense to sell a permanent pass to a temporary area. Whether or not that future area (if it ever exists) will have all services available remains to be seen. In either case, I expect that the airship will be nearby offering it’s services in a more convenient manner.

g e o.2589:

You can’t deny that the tickets to Airship (1 time use) can be found for free, quite frequently. It is not anything as P2W absurd as some people above mentioned. It is just 40 more seconds of way from Toilet to Crafting. Nothing disasterous

I’ve had few of them from bags, but nowhere near enough to cover my daily need to access services. I do agree that it’s not P2W at all. It’s pay for convenience.

Pay for convenience itself is just fine. But the problem is they want us to pay for a convenience that was free yesterday. They removed freely available conveniences, just so they could charge for them. That is a business decision that doesn’t sit well with quite a few of us, and it shows Anet’s willingness to ‘take back’ things that have been offered for free.

It is ‘just a convenience’ that was taken, and I’m not trying to claim they will do the same with something more substantial. But I think it does open the door for other similar conveniences to be taken and put behind the gemstore walls.

g e o.2589:

Anet never said EVERYTHING would be to Vigil Keep or that Keep would be permanent new hub. They said everything EXCLUSIVE to Lion’s Arch, and oh well banks TP merhcants. All of those got moved. Last time I checked crafting stations are available in 12 other maps. And Laurel vendors in 8 others. Therefore they were not exclusive to LA. Stop being Drama Lama its not the end of the world.

You’re right, they quite clearly said this in their patch notes…

patch notes

Most of the services in Lion’s Arch have found a new home at the Vigil Keep in Gendarran Fields.

Floating above is the captain’s airship, the Havoc’s Heir, a one-stop shop for all services.

It’s clearly that stated only some services from LA are in Vigil Keep, and that the excluded services are in the pass-only airship. That means they intended for services to be missing from Vigil Keep, while also intentionally including them in the pass-only area.

Any player wanting a fully functioning/serviced central hub now has to have a pass. This was not the case before Tuesday’s update, all of the central hub’s services were available to everyone.

This is comparable to your auto dealer coming to your house and changing the lock on your truck’s tailgate, then trying to sell you a key for it. Sure, you can still load things into your truck over top of the tailgate, but that’s less convenient.

Ayrilana.1396:

Which I mentioned before that the Royal Terrace had as well. Your argument against it being a slippery slope is invalid if this is what you’re referring to. You made a comparison between the Royal Terrace and airship pass. Both have the crafting stations. Since both have them, there’s no change and thus no slippery slope.

There is a very large change in that aspect between the Terrace and airship. After the Terrace was added Divinity’s Reach still had crafting stations outside the Terrace. The game’s central hub, after the addition of the airship, as no crafting stations.

The difference, and the slippery slope, lie in the services available outside of the pass-only areas, in the publicly accessible areas of each of these cities/hubs.

The fact is that the central hub of the game no longer has publicly accessible crafting, profession trainers, or laurel vendor.

Even if they airship wasn’t added in, and Vigil Keep still lacked these services, it could be said that it was an attempt to push sales of Terrace Passes (had they been re-added to the store). The fact that the new ‘one stop shop’ is parked directly over the hub with ‘missing’ services, just makes it much more obvious.

Ayrilana.1396:

Only two services, as I had previously mentioned, are not accessible. You’re making the assumption that Anet deliberately did not include some services just to promote their airship pass. This is pure speculation based on no factual evidence. If I’m wrong then by all means provide the evidence.

mrstealth.6701:

The ‘slippery slope’ is that removal of services, for the purpose of making the passes more tempting to buy. Adding the Royal Terrace did not do this, but the changes to Vigil Keep and addition of the airship did do it. Hence it being one step down onto the ‘slippery slope’ in relation to the impact of the Terrrace.

Again, this is speculation based on zero factual evidence. Provide the evidence and then that argument will hold weight.

The crafting stations are missing, as well as those two services. The evidence is the fact that they are not present in the new central hub (Vigil Keep), yet are in the airship.

Even though we do have other cities to access these services in, part of LA’s convenience was it’s location in the map, and the fact that’s it’s the only multi-race city in the game. It was designed to be a social and services hub. It’s literally the center of the whole game.

If you’ve been playing for a while, and are heading somewhere to take care of all your selling/banking/etc, a central location just makes sense unless you’re certain where you are going next. World bosses are all over the map, so LA is a good spot to head to when you’re not certain which boss is next.

There’s also one thing that I’ve not seen mentioned here. I would think a multi-racial hub is even more important to the roleplaying community. Is a Norn RP’er going to go to Divinity’s Reach or Rata Sum for services, or are they going to feel more obligated to using only Hoelbrak when a central hub is not viable? Hoelbrak is certainly less convenient (and more costly) if what you’re doing is in the western half the map. I’m not an RPer myself, and I know they are just one subset of the game community, but I could see them being more heavily affected by changes like this.

Ayrilana.1396:

The only two services excluded from the Vigil keep were the retrait npc and the laurel merchant. As I stated above, I could agree with you on this on the assumption that these services actually mattered. I only saw the retrait npc mattering IF the player uses that service often.

If the airship pass was not introduced, but the Royal Terrace pass was made available (I can’t remember if it was ever removed but I don’t see it listed now), would your argument still stand that they engineered the destruction of LA for the sole purpose to sell more passes?

I disagree with with your argument that it was a slippery slope because they took services away and made it only available if you purchased the airship pass. My entire argument in this thread has been against your argument that it was a slippery slope. Only two services were “lost” and are no longer conveniently located in Gendarran amongst the other services.

Actually, the ‘lost’ service that is causing the biggest issue are the crafting stations.

And your argument still has nothing to do with my statement about it being a ‘slippery slope’. The entire “slippery slope” is the removal of services from public access, and into pass-only areas. It has nothing to do with the services available in the Terrace compared to the ones available in the airship.

Royal Terrace – A convenience area was added to DR with some extra services that were not previously there.

Airship – Services that have existed in the central hub (LA) since release or their addition to the game were removed from public access in the new central hub (Vigil Keep), and placed into a pass-only area.

The ‘slippery slope’ is that removal of services, for the purpose of making the passes more tempting to buy. Adding the Royal Terrace did not do this, but the changes to Vigil Keep and addition of the airship did do it. Hence it being one step down onto the ‘slippery slope’ in relation to the impact of the Terrrace.

Ayrilana.1396:

mrstealth.6701

I was referring to the services (crafting, trait reset, laurels) that were removed from the central hub (now Vigil Keep), compared to the Royal Terrace simply being added to DR without any changes to existing services.

See my post above. The only thing I see that the airship pass added, that’s not present in Gendarran, would be the retrait npc. I would see that as a valid reason to be upset but that relies entirely on how much of an impact that having to go out of your way to retrait would be.

I’m not quite certain of the point you’re trying to make, and you seem to have misunderstood the point I was making. It has nothing to do with the airship having more/less services than the Royal Terrace. It’s the fact that services were excluded from Vigil Keep, and put into the airship instead.

When the Royal Terrace was added to DR, it was simply an addition. None of DR’s existing services were effected at all.

The airship has central hub services that were removed from the publicly available area of the central hub.

The ‘slippery slope’ is that DR’s Royal Terrace was simply an added convenience, where as the airship adds convenience to one location while taking it away from another.

Ayrilana.1396:

mrstealth.6701:

For those that have thrown in the idea of the “slippery slope”, mind the fact that this is actually the 2nd step, so we’re already on the “slope”. The Royal Terrace was the test to see if this type of pass would sell.

Now we’re at the next step down the line, of actually removing something and replacing it with a pay service.

Exactly what did they remove that couldn’t already be gotten with the royal terrace pass? I see the captains airship has additional services which was vehemently requested by players. All of these additional services are present in Gendarran.

I was referring to the services (crafting, trait reset, laurels) that were removed from the central hub (now Vigil Keep), compared to the Royal Terrace simply being added to DR without any changes to existing services.