Guild Wars 2

Mank.2183:

The Dev deserves punishment but those players need a ban imho. Such childish and toxic abuse shouldn’t be tolerated no matter the situation. And this thread needs to be locked…

After seeing the video, not just the screenshots, I agree with that. I don’t think the Anet employ did enough to be fired, but he does deserve some sort of punishment, and maybe have his ability to use that tag removed to prevent future incidents. I was actually expecting to see more inappropriate conduct from this employee in the video, but the screenshots cover pretty much everything he did/said.

The players’ responses were actually worse than anything he did, and at least one or two deserve a suspension. Almost immediately resorting to namecalling/insults is surely not going to help the situation.

Dranul.2094:

This “contribution” argument is SOOOOOOO FLAWED in a game its unreal, its not a F’in JOB, I do NOT have to meet targets or get fired. You PPT addicts, and yes you are addicts, you’ve bought into their lies and bullkitten. Hell the stories of people losing jobs, getting divorced, should be sending off alarm bells to you PPT idioots.

Who gives a flying kitten at the end of a week whose 1st, 2nd, 3rd. Play when you play, have fun. Kill the enemy or die trying.

If wvw’ers are “PPT addicts”, then gvg’ers must all be “PK addicts”, right? That’s about the silliest thing I’ve seen in this thread…and there is a lot of competition for that title.

It’s that type of condescending nonsense that gives the entire gvg community a bad name.

I’m not going to defend the matchup system as being anything good, but how is the entire PPT system “a lie”? Even in an unfair matchup, trying to maintain as high of a score as possible is still a goal. Does knowing we’re outmatched and extremely unlikely to win mean that we shouldn’t try just to see how well we do?

I don’t really care if my server comes in 1st, 2nd, or 3rd. But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to come in first. I’m there to have fun, and giving up isn’t my idea of fun.

Wtf is wrong with 2 groups getting together to battle?? EXPLAIN that one.

It’s wrong when it interferes with other players’ ability to play and enjoy the game. That’s not always the case, but it does happen.

When you are trying to force a separate gametype into wvw, you have to be considerate of the implications that has on the intended gameplay.

Drop the sense of entitlement, lose the attitude that you’re better than everyone else in wvw, and learn to actually cooperate with the wvw community as a whole. If the map you’re on is active, and hitting queues, move your match to a less active map. If your server is requesting help defending, delay your gvg and help, or move the gvg and clear the map for those that are willing to help. Inform your server of what you are planning so they know to avoid the area you’re in, or to keep large zergs/trains on other maps.

Waage.2047:

Best thing to do is let the GvG community keep making them self look bad. No one is coming away looking good for this, but the GvG community is determined to try and look the worst.

I can’t really argue with that. There is good in the gvg community, but the exposure they give on the forums is generally negative. The attitude of entitlement and acting as if they are better than, or more important than, everyone else does nothing but hurt the entire community. If I were in Anet’s position, I would not be inclined to take any measures to appease or satisfy people acting that way.

They need to take a hint from the positive and cooperative side of the gvg community. Work with everyone in wvw and show Anet that you have a community worth catering to. Throwing a fit on the forums, raging at players ingame, and spamming livestreams only makes the entire community look bad, and it only gives Anet a reason to not implement what you want.

You have to keep in mind that what you want is something that is completely against the original plans for guilds. Guilds are a social aspect and are intentionally separate from pvp. Instead of having 5, 10, 25 people out of 200 representing a guild, a pvp team exists as a separate entity. Your competitive progress as a 20 man team isn’t going to mean much if that team’s players frequently change, and it’s not very representative of the guild with only a small portion of the guild being involved.

Does it really matter if a group of 20 organized players are in the same guild or not? What if you could slap a name onto that team once it’s formed? All that’s really needed is another mode of pvp that supports larger teams and provides a more open field of play. Or even just a seperate map/instance in wvw with some mechanics to organize/track larger teams and provide a combat area where others can watch without being able to interfere.

KOPPER.1458:

“Some sort of reprimand is definitely in order, even something as severe as firing.”

I am sure there are things happening behind the scenes. They aren’t going to share that with us.

I have to keep asking though. Why does this person losing their job make you (not you but people in the community) feel better about the situation? Does it really bring you satisfaction? Does it instill in you that it will never happen again?

It happened. It shouldn’t have happened. A blanket apology was forged. Not sure what else player are expecting out of this. It make me smile a little when I see someone respond with “I am uninstalling because of this, and I wasn’t even effected personally.”

The damage has been done. Not sure what else players expect at this point. It doesn’t make it ok.

It would be unprofessional and pretty distasteful if Anet did make an official statement about whatever reprimand this employee receives. Information like that is rarely made public, unless the person was in a high-profile position where their removal would be obvious.

I think the only additional response we might see would be some sort of anonymous apology from the employ in question. Letting the community know this person’s identity would likely lead to many more problems. It really doesn’t matter what Anet or this person says at this point, because the damage is done. Any attempts at an apology are most likely to be taken as forced and without meaning.

The best thing to do is let Anet handle this, and just move on.

Empyre.2531:

You think that dev woke up that morning and thought “kitten I hate gvg, I will go harass it today”?
That kind of opinion stems from an internal view, he is influenced by his surroundings and if it gets him as far as harassing while REPRESENTING the company he works for, wow, I don’t want to hear the internal talk about gvg then.
Tbh, someone that unprofessional should be fired. In other jobs, outside gaming industry, he would surely have gotten the boot.

It was one person. There is no way to know if his opinion was influenced by anyone else. Not everyone is a ‘yes man’ that automatically agrees with everyone around them. There is no reason to associate this person’s feelings and beliefs with those of the company as a whole.

I do agree he/she was abusing his/her position and should not be making statements like that while wearing a company logo. Some sort of reprimand is definitely in order, even something as severe as firing.

Twinny.9304:

Well that’s pretty silly because what ever you are down in people the other team is down too, I certainly dont have a slap-fight(so you put it) against my own guildies. And tbh many of times we have left a GvG to be continued because the map needs help.

It would be an balancing factor if wvw was 2-way fight, but there are 3 teams involved.

We inform anyone on map before we start that we are having a GvG at windmill if you see swords down there its us, and if things get too heavy for you give us a shout and we will come to try and help.

And we are contributing while doing it we are keeping an enemy guild occupied, we get points for stomps and if there is a queue on that current map we will normally make a decision with opposing guild to see if we can move maps. We are a close net community and help and keep in touch with any of the pug commanders and their movements across all maps. And are always at call if needed unless we are defending or taking something ourselves, in which case see what prioritizes.

I think this would be a lot less of an issue if there were more gvg guilds like yours. It sounds like you really handle it the best way possible. The way all of them should.

I’ve seen a gvg busted up because no one knew they were there. I was in the middle of the pack, and my initial reaction was preparing for an ambush. The enemy guild involved had clashed with us several times that day. What I saw looked like a stacked and buffing group getting ready to charge us.

The reaction from some friendlies observing from the far side (I didn’t even see them till after we engaged) was nothing but rage, and did not help to defuse the situation at all. Our presence on the map was clear, and they made no effort to inform us of theirs, even though we were at the southern supply camp.

Why do people like you tell us we shouldn’t do it? It has improved my play style a lot, and my guildies play style, so in which case it benefits the server. I have already stated that our server knows they can call on us if we are needed. We will opt in for a map with no queue over a map with a queue. Although points are of no preference to me personally (i play for the fun/fights), the points however are of importance of our community and we will certainly postpone a GvG if our community actually needs us to postpone it and push that bit harder for the points. Whilst I totally agree there is no official GvG in GW2, there is however open field battles (which is part of WvW) where guilds have decided to take a fun open field battle and make it a fair fight which has been dubbed GvG. Since it is the closest thing to it, and the WvW environment is well suited for this, and the Devs have stated themselves that it is a free-for-all-battle, don’t tell me how to play as i don’t tell you how to play.

Just to make it clear we will help out our community 1st and GvG 2nd so we do have our priorities in the right order, so for the hours we put in to WvW and contributing to our server, if we want to GvG then we will kittening GvG. If our server needs us to put GvG on hold for the time being to help them out then so be it. But we certainly shouldn’t be told we can’t do it.

its about about practicing against fair competition, working together as a team to take down an another team of similar equality and numbers. And most of all having fun with friends which is is why you play the game. So to have someone tell me I cant do that, and I don’t work hard for my sever is a complete insult.

I’m certainly not telling you how to play, but there are some gvg’ers that do need to change their attitudes and priorities. Everything I said is directed at that group. From what you said, it seems that your guild does the exact opposite of the problematic behavior I mentioned, so it doesn’t really apply to you.

I would like to see more gvg guilds that put the community and wvw ahead of their own wants, but there seem to be many that don’t. It’s this attitude that their contributions make it ok for them to completely disregard wvw and other players when it’s time for a gvg match. They are the problem.

Dynnen.6405:

I’m not the biggest fan of GvG, but I understand why they do it.

These players are looking for a balanced fight and some ranking system so they can have a competitive gaming experience. Since small mans have been pushed to the side I don’t mind these guilds ‘wasting’ 1 hour of wvw time fighting each other. For me thats way more meaningful than a karma train doing what they do.

I know why they do this, and I do respect that fact that they’ve been able to create this community that exists for it. But there is a very vocal portion of that community that seem to think their wants are more important, their contribution to wvw is more significant, and that they have a right to interfere with wvw, while expecting wvw to never interfere with them.

I would like to see a real gvg mechanic added to the game for them. But until that happens, a lot of them need to realize that what they are doing is trying to fit a completely unintended makeshift gametype into another established gametype.

It can work out just fine for everyone, but some gvg’ers need to accept the fact that they need to be considerate to wvw’ers and try to avoid any interference. I’ve seen a gvg match get moved to another map when queue issues pop up. It’s that type of simple cooperation that can make this work out for both sides. The queues are freed up, and there are less people on the map to potentially disrupt the gvg. From what I have seen wvw’ers generally don’t interfere with gvgs, so it’s fairly reasonable to expect the same in return.

Teege.4623:

Sarrs.4831:

Bit of a slow response but pretty much exactly what I expected. Maybe a bit longer than I expected.

They don’t have a choice but respond. There are a number of upset people and they need damage control in place. I think Chris is becoming the unofficial PR “sorry guys” employee. Can’t we just move on? It’s not like the company or any representatives of it have done anything stupid in the past.

Agreed, this was just one person acting this way. His mistake was deciding to do this while displaying his Anet guild tag/logo. I’m a firm believer of everyone having the right to speak their mind, but it is not acceptable to do so when you are presenting your opinions in a manner that implies they are shared by your employer.

On the other hand, some of the people upset by this and blaming Anet as a whole, need to realize when the ‘representative’ has overstepped his boundaries and is speaking his own opinions, not the company’s.

Riondron.1069:

And yes, they may run a karma farm train and rack up some wxp and PPT, but after an hour or 2 of doing that, they simply vanish with nothing sieged up or upgraded, and the enemy just waits for them to leave, then they swoop in and clear the map that has only 5-6 defenders on it with a 40 man bulldozer. Later on, you will find that gvg blob all farming champs, temple, or dungeons so that they can get all the ascended gear and frilly laced exotic armor that makes them feel like they have superb skills and bragging rights over all the pugs in wvw that don’t have them, while those of us wvw’ers who spend 8-20 hours a day fighting for the benefit of everyone on our server are getting stomped by superior numbers the other 22 hours that they are not there to help

On my server, it’s usually the ones putting in 8-20 hours that are that karma train, or at least the ones leading it. Taking enemy BLs when the opportunity is there, and moving back to defend our own when it’s threatened by an enemy zerg. It tends to attract more from pve, but our frequent wvw’ers are usually in the mix, with some doing turns staying behind to guard.

It does revert to a no-holding karma train when the our force is much smaller than the enemy presence (which is somewhat common for us). There isn’t much else you can do when your ‘train’ is only 20 people, and you’re up against 75 from another server.

My personal preference is to hold everything we can, and take any targets of opportunity. The former situation goes rather well with that, and the training is a nice boost to the rewards and a draw for more players.

Titan.3472:

GvG is for newbies and beginners that found out game mechanisms and coordination what they suppose that they are the only to achieve this knowledge and game play but they are just wrong and still believe being the only skilled players : that s just so funny and sad at the same time…

I wouldn’t go that far with it. Some of them are very good at what they do, and know how to apply that skill to wvw and are capable of cooperating/coordinating with others. I’ve seen some gvg guilds (from my server and from others) be valuable assets to their servers (while not gvg’ing or only hunting for ‘good fights’). But I’ve seen just as many, if not more (seems to be many more to me) that aren’t any more helpful than the average pug group when caught outside of their element (gvg). Being good at open field fighting is a valuable skill to have, but you need more than that to be successful in wvw.

I’ve even seen some cases where their desire for a ‘good open field fight’ has lead them right into being slaughtered by smaller force, because they got out-played and out-maneuvered. Stack up, buff, and charge in doesn’t work so well against an enemy that can use terrain and siege to their advantage. One such incident I was part of was actually lead by a commander from a gvg guild. Some of their members were there, but it was mostly a pug group. We ended up wiping a combined force of two enemy guild groups (I know at least one was a gvg guild) that attempted a 2-front attack on us.

Player Character.9467:

mrstealth.6701:

Moving a large force to a new map, only to have 30 of them locked out

LOL you’re right, your karma train is a way more valid form of pvp

Are you actually going argue the validity of a group of people actually doing something wvw-related and helpful to the server, compared to a group of 15-25 doing absolutely nothing of use to anyone? Sure, a wxp train might have other motivation, but it’s certainly a lot more valid to wvw than anything happening behind the windmill. Staging a gvg inside wvw is about as “invalid” as you can possibly be. And that is my point.

What does something being a “valid form of pvp” have to do with this? What is a “valid” form? 30-50 players going out of their way to avoid the gametype they are in, just so they can pointlessly kill each other for an hour is more “valid” somehow?

If you want “valid” pvp, go do spvp. WvW consists of a lot more than killing other players. And open field doesn’t exactly count as “valid” in wvw when it’s a planned mock fight between 2 groups that aren’t even attempting to do anything relevant to wvw.

ragas.1843:

And this is why i stop play guild wars 2 , i’m fed up with this game waiting for a GvG arena a proper one not like spvp where all items are free etc.. a place that you show up with the gear that you craft or you farm to get like ascended or legendary with the skins that i want and most important to play with the guild , yes WITH THE GUILD

All items being free is a vital part of balance in pvp, and that should carry over to a gvg arena. You shoud be better because you are better, not better because you had more time to farm. However, I don’t like the limitations of the current spvp gear system in terms of stat combos and the inability to mix stats like you can with pve/wvw gear. Keep the spvp ‘free’ gear, but give it the flexibility of pve gear.

ragas.1843:

if at least i could have a refund ,because fake adverts like for example the game name GUILD WARS, there is no guild wars on this game there is party wars, pve, and server vs server vs server wars a.k.a WvW.

It’s called “Guild Wars” for two reasons. It’s a sequel to another game of the same name. That game was called “Guild Wars” for a point in game lore/history referred to as “The Guild Wars”
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/The_Guild_Wars

The name may have carried some more meaning for GW1, as that game did have gvg battles, but GW2 carries the name for lore reasons and because it’s a sequel in the same series.

wads.5730:

Jamais vu.5284:

Did somehow everyone being vocal in this thread against GvGs miss that those GvGs mostly take place on Thursdays or Fridays?
Are you putting your fingers in your ears and your hands on your eyes and pretend (and just for this topic) that most matches aren’t a complete blowout by Saturday afternoon, let alone Thursday or Friday evening?
Really?

they are trolling

Not at all.

I don’t care if we’re 150k points ahead or 150k points behind, hitting a queue because of people consciously not participating in wvw is negatively impacting my experience. Moving a large force to a new map, only to have 30 of them locked out because of the 15-25 gvg’ers and their spectators taking up slots negatively impacts that entire group.

Losing a keep to blue team while a 20-player organized team is busy having a slap-fight with green team behind the windmill impacts everyone on the map. Red team just lost a keep that those 20 could likely have saved, blue team now has a another keep, and green team has an opportunity to attempt to flip a reset paper keep.

Kimhyuna.1035:

mrstealth.6701:

You might play wvw when you’re not gvg’ing, but there are many others that play just as much. And no matter how much time/effort you put into wvw, while you are doing a gvg, you are just taking up slots with a chance at giving a small amount of points for stomps.

Yea cos all matchups arnt blowouts. Cos all matches are even. Cos all servers have long ques.

There is a reason why people GvG and there is a reason why alot of them a hardcore wvw folks.

A lot are blowouts, but others aren’t. Not that this has anything to do with what I said.

Queue length doesn’t matter, a queue is a queue. It’s a negative impact on wvw either way. Even with my server’s relatively low wvw population, I’ve seen gvg matches causing queue issues on multiple occasions. Thankfully at least some of the guilds are courteous enough to move their match to a less populated map.

Even without a queue, and especially in an uneven matchup, gvg can have a negative impact. If there are only 30 on a map, and 15 of those are in a gvg match, the remaining 15 are going to have a lot harder time trying to hold/capture objectives. As many like to point out, a lot of gvg’ers are also avid wvw’ers. If those 15 weren’t tied up in a gvg, they’d likely be helping the others and making the a fight a bit more even. Those 15 organized players could be a great asset to their server, if they weren’t wasting time in a mock gvg.

I realize why they gvg, and that they represent a subset of the hardcore wvw players. My point is that their contribution to wvw does not make it acceptable for them to take up queue slots or otherwise negatively impact their server’s wvw players for the sake of their gvg matches.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

One thing i dislike about Gvg community is ‘we want gvg, we want it now, we need it now, we deserve it now, if you don’t like it, we quit/massive complain’.

This is the one thing that makes me have little sympathy for many members of the gvg community. It’s not all of them, but there seem to be quite a few with this attitude. For whatever reason, they think they are more important to WvW than anyone else, and that whatever they do contribute to wvw gives them the right to spend hours taking up queue slots and not contribute. You might play wvw when you’re not gvg’ing, but there are many others that play just as much. And no matter how much time/effort you put into wvw, while you are doing a gvg, you are just taking up slots with a chance at giving a small amount of points for stomps.

I do think that the Anet employ in question went way too far, and his/her behavior was just outright inappropriate and extremely unprofessional. On the other hand, I do have to agree with the point/intent. WvW is not GvG, and it shouldn’t be. It would be great if gvg was added, but just because it’s not officially in-game, does not give people the right to start a makeshift gvg in the middle of another gametype, especially when that can negatively impact the players of that gametype.

The fight might be comparable to two organized groups clashing in open field, but a “real” open field fight is likely the result of one group’s intent on capturing something. A “real” open field fight can determine the success or failure of that goal. If you defeat a guild group in a gvg, you aren’t stopping them from doing something, nor are you opening up a chance for your server to take an objective. Open field fights are part of the “war” that is wvw, gvg is just a wrestling match on the back-lot.

hatspixelscake.7506:

Invisible, invulnerable embers at Fire Elemental applying constant burning and wiping groups. One of the more stupid of the recent additions.

Those things are ridiculous and need to be fixed. Even when they are rendered and visible, the AoE they have is several times larger than the embers appear to be. The render bug needs fixed, and they need an AoE marker ring around them.

Omaro.6451:

Please don’t change the bosses. What needs to be added are better tools to organize or communicate. I wish Anet would add an auto group for large events similar to Rift. Players are welcome to opt out if they don’t ,but auto opting in allows players to instantlly get caught up on whose actualy doing an event, and coordinate.
I think the bosses need to be harder with serious penalities for failure, something that lasts long enough and zone wide enough to make the bosses matter. Weaker bosses like golem and fire elemental shouldn’t have long timers like the dragons.

The only thing they could add to ever help with organizing is voice chat, which is something a lot would just immediately disable. Being subjected to a 100+ player open-join pug raid is bad enough without having to listen to all of them. The whole concept of expecting over 100 random people to magically be coordinated is just bad design.

There are plenty of MMOs that offer challenging raid content for properly organized groups. Leave that type of content to them. Anet said long before release that they wanted to avoid raid type content, because it took too long to organize and prepare. This is exactly what they’ve done with Teq 2.0, and it’s a disaster that will likely be deserted along with the Karka Queen very soon.

I do agree that some of the bosses should be a bit more challenging, but they are going the completely wrong direction in doing that. Golem is probably the only fight that I’d say has actually improved, but even there the damage increase is the electric fields is excessive. It should hurt, it should be life-threatening, but you can do that with 50% of the current damage. Anet seems to have a serious issue finding a mid-ground in their changes, with everything being overnerfed or overbuffed.

As for penalties for failing a fight, I think that is fastest way to destroy and unpopulate a zone. This works when an area is used only for a boss fight. Teq is a somewhat good example of how it should be done, but the area-denial penalty still extends into the area of the nearby reknown heart. If this effect were extended to the entire map, you would be making one of only two level 60-65 zone practically unusable for most of the day.

There is one more piece to this problem that I don’t recall anyone mentioning here, and it’s one that’s been ingame since the beginning. WvW bonuses are also giving extra stats, and those stats are directly linked to your server’s war score. While most have no effect on combat stats, there are 3 that do. Buffs to endurance regen has a somewhat minor effect, but the gains to health and healing are more substantial combat buffs.

The server maintaining the highest PPT/war score is going to unlock these faster, and have better stat increases. If that server has significantly better coverage/population, this score/buff gap is even larger, and they are also likely to have an easier time holding the Bloodlust buffs. The stronger they become on their own, the more buffs the game throws at them to make them even stronger.

lordkrall.7241:

It is actually quite cute that people start shouting about this AFTER the patch, when we have known this would be added for more or less a MONTH.
Wouldn’t it be more logical to leave BEFORE the patch in order to send the message that you don’t like the planned patch, rather then leaving after said patch is already in the game?

We’ve been doing that for weeks already. The topics should be rather easy to find if you bother to look for them. They were given a chance to listen, and chose not to. Now it’s time to turn that voice into action.

This has all but killed my already dwindling interest in wvw, which has been one of the main reasons I’ve kept playing GW2. The only reason I have left are my friends/guild, but I have no actual desire to play for myself anymore.

Stark.1350:

Translation: “I can’t get free loot anymore by standing still and pressing 1. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH”.

Someone else that doesn’t understand the existence of difficulty between spamming 1 and what we have now. Difficulty is a scale, not an on/off switch.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

/le sigh

The “timer” separates the good, organized players from the unorganized, let’s zerg rush the target players. This boss is only for the elite.

That works just fine in an instanced environment. It does not work in an open world. Expecting such extreme planning and coordination for an every-few-hour event that anyone can participate in, with a hard cap on player limit, is ridiculous.

If you’re going to have a timer to separate the “good” and “bad” players, you need a way to actually separate those players. How many “elite” players do we have failing this because they’re stuck with “non-elite” players? You can vote kick from your party, but last time I checked you can’t vote kick from Sparkfly.

It seems very likely that this event will need some toning down. The old Teq was way too easy, and you could pretty much auto attack while afk, but this is just taking way too much coordination from a large group of random people. Even the people that have already killed Teq are probably not going to keep doing so, if that requires getting 100+ people on a TS server and being that coordinated. It’s just not worth the trouble, or the risk of failure from the presence of players outside of your control. A couple clueless people on turrets, and the entire organized group won’t matter one bit.

insanemaniac.2456:

keep the timers, learn to be better and not braindead failures. timers arent a dps check, theyre a zombie check.

Isn’t it both? If you don’t have the DPS from your combined group, you don’t do damage in time, and you fail. Zombie or not, you still need the DPS. And either way, I can only ‘check’ myself and those I’m partied with. We don’t have any control over the other 95 random people running around the map.

Lopez.7369:

They seriously reintroduced the same problem as the old orb buffs, except now it comes with more skill lag and players twitching all over the screen every time the bloodlust buff pings.

I haven’t been in WvW to see this, but I didn’t even think it causing more lag. So many excuses about the AoE limit and condition stack limit being there because it creates too many extra calculations and bandwidth requirements for the servers…but it’s fine to go and add a buff to every player on a server, that is having the same negative effect.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

lesliejb.3615:

Once again, I’ll defer this one to Lyssa. Frankly, her battle is how I feel world bosses should work. The main boss, 3 objectives to capture and hold; it requires co-ordination and there’s no clock necessary.

So basically, you’re asking for Easy Mode? Because Lyssa caps aren’t the hardest thing in the world.

I’m fairly sure he’s referring to the mechanic that causes a failure/reset, not the actual difficulty of the event. It’s a much better system than the boss that is winning the fight (seeing that he usually has 75% HP or more) just leaving for no reason. They could increase the difficulty of the turret defense, and have Teq put up walls and fully heal if all turrets are destroyed.

Anyway, there is more to video game difficulty than “afk easy” and “100 slot TS required.” There is such a thing as being too hard, and wanting that toned down is in no way asking for an “easy mode”. What is needed is something in between, if the latter ends up remaining the standard for what it takes to down Teq.

Arrow.3856:

Awe.1096:

I shall wait with my judgement some more days or weeks to see how new Tequatl win ratios around the world will evolve. But for now I am concerned.

Yeah I know where you stand man. Same boat as you Im just not sure where I stand because it is the first day. Great example there. I will also keep seeing how this fight goes.

I agree that it’s still too early to know for sure. But I don’t have much hope considering how much of the time limit BG used up with the extreme effort put in.

If that level of coordination remains the standard required to beat Teq, I don’t see many bothering to try after they’ve done it a couple times, or failed over and over for a week.

Well done, BG! Congrats!

Smooth Penguin.5294:

There are already mechanics in place that punish players if they don’t protect the turrets or batteries. What it comes down to is that complainers are asking for more time, simply because their server is failing to cooperate in a efficient manner. This isn’t Anet’s problem to fix, since it’s up to the players to band together and figure things out.

Those are the mechanics that should cause failure. At least that makes sense, and is a more reasonable barrier than “you must have X DPS to win.” This type of time limit can work for an organized group of players that are used to playing together and communicate well, but it’s not suited for 80-100 random players. Trying to get a large group of people to listen to someone they don’t even know is not an easy task.

Even the only server that seems to have a fairly organized group, which I’d guess consists of at least a few decent sized guild/friend groups, has only managed to get Teq to about 25%.

All the timers are right now is a “you don’t have enough people” or “you don’t have enough DPS” arbitrary failure.

We can’t control how many show up.
We can’t control if half the players that show up are uplevels in greens/blues.
We can’t control if half of the players have condition damage builds, and have their damage negated by stacking limits.

This is seems to be the standard for the day, at least every time I’ve looked at the scores. Only difference right now is that BP is actually managing a push to get some PPT. SBI had over 400 a few hours ago, along with their stat buffs.

This is exactly what we’ve been telling them would happen. The server with more coverage and active wvw population gets an even bigger stick to beat down the other servers with.

Charming Rogue.8071:

Stay out of the water. It’s been like that in the Swamp fractal since fractals came out, and you didn’t hear anyone complaining about it then.

Standing back at max range between Teq and the turrets, there are still areas that hide the rings. Even just a few steps in front of the turrets, the majority of the ground is covered in ankle-deep water.

The biggest problem I’ve really noticed in the 2 rounds of Teq 2.0 I’ve been in, is the red AoE markers on the ground being obscured by shallow water puddles or other effects. Some of them are partially invisible, while others are almost completely hidden. I know this was present with the previous version of Teq, or in any other area with shallow water covering the ground, but the number of AoEs and the high threat they pose make it more of a problem now. The sheer number of effects going off from players doesn’t help, but I suppose the effect culling option could reduce that aspect of it. The larger problem is still the water itself causing the rings to not be visible.

The only other issue I noticed was the shockwave animation and collision seem a bit off. The damage feels like it’s just ahead of the wave, so a jump that visibly clears it still results in being hit. It’s worked around easily enough by jumping early, and landing inside the back half of the wave, but it does make the jump a bit tricky.

Lurch.9517:

Gav.1425:

No stat buffs for anyone, IMO.

Buff that increases PPT? Sure. 5% per stack.

All you are effectively saying is that you are anti objective based PVP and just want a sandbox.. That is not this game and you will not have that.

I’m not quite sure what that has to do with making it a sandbox. Changing the Bloodlust stat buff to a PPT buff would make it no more or less of a sandbox than it already is. Removing PPT/war score might be a step in that direction, but even a sandbox has objectives.

Monsoon.2589:

I do not play for the ranks but for the fun of wvw and it also does not mean I play less or don t play my alts…on the contrary

I don’t play for ranks either, but the game is trying to enforce that idea in some attempt to make us play more/longer. The issue isn’t the ranks, it’s the abilities tied to those ranks. My alts are less effective, so there is active discouragement to use them. They do less damage with siege, have less range with seige, are missing skills on siege, can carry less supply, don’t get supply refunds on use, can’t build as fast, can’t repair as fast, have lower HP, have lower power/condition damage, take more damage from siege, do less damage to guards, take more damage from guards…did I miss anything?

This isn’t an “easy mode”, because character based ranks are not a “hard mode”. It’s just a completely unnecessary grind for power. It’s about wanting more than a single character to viably have their maximum potential. Having that potential stuck behind ranks that take thousands of hours to acquire is not making that viable, it’s discouraging the use of alts. As someone that doesn’t have a “main” or “alts”, it’s flat-out devastating to my desire to play the game. Being disadvantaged just because you enjoy playing multiple professions is the problem here.

One of the core principles of GW2 (not just WvW) was not having to take thousands of hours to gain the maximum power/potential for a character, yet WvW abilities do just that.

gwfanboy.2496:

FrownyClown.8402:

Are ridiculous. I see about 50% of roamers are stun warriors. One stun on my elementalist and I get downed. Please make stuns condi cleansed or nerf the crit chance on stun warriors have.

I smell a bad player..

Hammer is never an issue against a good player as it is highly choreographed and easily avoidable. Spend some time in spvp instead of zerging.

mace is what the average/below average player complains about.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Arcane_Shield
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Armor_of_Earth + the reactive one so two armors of earth
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mist_Form

You can switch to earth attunement while stunned for protection then to water for healing while stunned -this should be Nerfed in eles-

Or teleport away:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Flash

You can use any ability with zero activation time during stuns, I think.

You do realize that mace stun typical build warriors have bad mobility, right? The current suggested builds are not effective in wvw as you can kite them since there is no contested point to fight over.

Just because you don’t use your stun breakers, stabilities, blind, protection, heal which can all be used during stunned doesn’t mean we have to balance the game around your lack of experience.

The game is balanced around spvp and not around baddies in wvw.

I think that when it’s down to telling people they have to equip a specific set of utilities just do deal with the fact that one profession has access to an absurd amount of short CD stuns, there is a serious problem with that profession. Your build should not have to be so centered around dealing with one particular opponent build. Ele is probably one of the better equipped to deal with stun warriors, but even if they focus on that in their build, the warrior still has more frequent stuns than they are able to counter.

kuora.5402

I didn’t know dodges were suddenly disabled. God these wvw players think pressing 1 all day makes them immortal.

I’m not sure why someone always has to apply the “dodge argument” to everything, but it’s rarely a valid one. They have more stuns/dazes than you have dodges, and that’s all there is to it. Aside from traits/sigils/runes that grant straight endurance refills, you have 1 dodge every 5 seconds with vigor, and 1 dodge every 10 seconds without it. Unless your opponent is kind enough to limit their stuns or more powerful attacks to every 10 seconds, dodging is simply not enough. And that assumes the stun warrior is the only thing hitting you, and you’ve not had to dodge something else.

Sarrs.4831:

Jamais vu.5284:

The argument is very straightforward. If you spend even one more minute on your character, or preferably in-game at all, due to the WXP progression mechanic than you would otherwise, it’s being effective.

Is it actually doing that? Because I feel actively discouraged from playing WvW when I want to level an alt. That is a Bad Thing. If I want to WvW, I’m more likely to experience burnout on my main. That is a Bad Thing. I haven’t found any Good Things that aren’t directly negated by these Bad Things yet.

This appears to be the effect it’s having on the people I know. Not wanting to play alts in wvw because of the character bound ranks. And playing the same character all the time just leads to boredom, which means playing the game less.

SmoothHussler.6387:

I don’t understand why people seem to think ‘leagues’ are different than anything in the game right now but whatever.

The only new thing in wvw will be the bloodlust buff and that might very well ruin wvw.

The difference is the fact that the leagues will throw out the tier/rank system, and we will all have to face every server in our league. Let’s say you’re on the rank 10 server, that puts you into gold league, which consists of r1-r12. Your r10 server has to face every other server in that league, at least once. Your r10 server vs r1 will happen, as will r10 vs r2, r3, and so on.

The current system allows for some pretty unbalanced matches, but nothing like the forced matches between servers 10+ ranks apart. At least with the current ranking system there is almost no chance of r10 meeting r1. With leagues, it’s a assured matchup.

While I agree that the OP is talking about a situation where winning was not an option due to number, I still think some weapon sets and trait changes might be needed. Stunbreaks are indeed important things to have in WvW, but we’re talking about a build that can put out multiple stuns and a daze in a very short time, without even swapping weapon sets.

Shiren.9532:

They will be guaranteed never to fight against any server rank 12 or higher and will be guaranteed to fight the lowest ranked server in the game (so blow out basically). It’s not hard to see why they would be happy.

I wouldn’t say I’m happy about the matchups, but I’m happier than I would be sitting at the bottom of gold league. It’s a crappy situation either way, but at least we get rewards in silver.

What exactly is it a league is supposed to do aside from arbitrarily reward silver league servers and give greater incentive to transfer to the most stacked servers?

I don’t think anyone knows the answer to that. I’m sure there is some PR dribble with hyped up non-sense about variety in matchups, but the people behind that hype clearly have no idea what the actual effects of these leagues is going to be…despite the facts being in front of them with the recent and current matchups.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Though in the end, prepare for disappointment when all you’re doing is spawn camping 24/7 for half your matches.

That’s all any matchup is going have. You’re either spawn camping or getting spawn camped. Since we apparently have to fight every server in the league at least once, that gives a very high chance of each and every matchup having a server several tiers higher in it. The T2 servers don’t have much chance against T1 servers, how well do you think T4 is going to do against them?

There really isn’t much hope for this system, as long as the “fight every server” requirement stands. That’s nearly a guarantee of at least one seriously overpowered server in each matchup. Unless you get “lucky” enough to get 2 high-tier servers in the same match just to get them out of the way, and maybe get a decent match later.

Be ready to see scores of 500k vs 25k.

It can be a bit excessive. Mace/Shield gives 2 stuns and a daze. You have to be prepared to break it and get away/counter it before they can do it again.

Hickeroar.9734:

You need to watch “the video that shall not be named.”

Calling it that makes me think of one video in particular….as it’s brought up quite often in various parts of this forum. But not sure where it fits in here. Other than the fact that most of what was said in it has been thrown out the window.

Hickeroar.9734:

The problem here is ArenaNet.

To modify a rather iconic movie quote. “ArenaNet, stop trying to make sPvP happen. It’s not going to happen.”

The fact that they’d become SO desperate to make a broken and unpopular gametype work that they would intentionally utterly destroy another gametype….really makes me wonder how inside-out and upside-down the brains are of the people running the show at ANet.

What they’re gonna get? Fewer players. Players aren’t going to migrate to sPvP (people hate it. Get with the program.). Players are going to migrate to entirely different games.

I don’t think they are intentionally damaging WvW, they just don’t know any better and are not willing to accept the fact that they might be wrong.

As the saying goes…Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

But you are right that screwing up WvW won’t help sPvP, or any other part of the game. I have absolutely no interest in sPvP. I prefer larger teams to smaller ones, and I hate the limiting gear system sPvP has. If Anet ruins WvW, which ranks are already doing, Bloodlust is going to damage farther, and Season 1 is likely to finish killing, I’ll be done with GW2 completely. It’s been too large a part of my enjoyment of this game to keep playing without it. Getting back into WvW was a major factor that kept me from quitting this summer.

Mooodster.3470:

if this is pvp why am i using pve gear? why is there pve mods such as champs,skritt and numerous other mods running around..why is there havesting nobs..why is there crafting stations…could it be that it is a mix of pve and pvp?

if there is no progression then you should be fine with not having them on any of your alts…there are roles..there are those that like to master the siege usage..those that like to master the traits capping towers and camps easier and faster…those that like to master building and repairing and im sure anet will continue to add more so that roles will become more defined but just because your not willing to see them doesn’t mean they dont exist

It’s not pve gear, it’s just gear. sPvP is an isolated part of the game that it’s own set of gear, sPvP gear. The PvE aspects that exist in WvW are a side show, or part of a capture mechanic. The main attraction of WvW is the other teams, the PvP aspect of it.

You can call the abilities roles, but gaining ranks and unlocking better/more powerful abilities within that role is progression of said role. There are even two lines, two of most costly to progress at that, that actually increase your character stats. Many of the others directly increase the amount of damage you do with various siege equipment, which is not really much different than giving your character more power. It makes you stronger and more powerful than someone that doesn’t have that ability.

In another thread, concerning Bloodlust/outnumbered, a dev stated that they don’t want to give any stat boosts to Outnumbered because of potential griefing/harassment of additional players joining the map, and causing the buff (and the extra stats) to be removed. Is this really any worse than having players being told to not use a piece of siege because someone else has abilities unlocked for it?

Being harassed about joining the map and causing an Outnumbered stat buff to go away (a suggestion from the other thread) is bad? But being harassed for using siege on an alt is fine?

The former is a hypothetical reason/excuse to not alter the Outnumbered buff, the latter is an actual in-game reality that I have seen. I avoid using siege if I’m on a character that doesn’t have any related abilities unlocked, unless there is no one else around to man it. I don’t want to use it, when someone else can fire it farther, do more damage, or have useful skills available…this is something that should not be happening in game. Siege shouldn’t care who is using it especially if that’s an experienced player (with ability unlocks) that just happens to be on an alt.

One of the best things for lower leveled characters to do in WvW was man siege. The lower stats and weapon damage didn’t matter, aside from condition damage. Siege always had the same range, the same damage, and the same skills. These character based ranks take away the only thing a lower level character could do as well as a level 80. And now even after you are 80, you still have to earn ranks to unlock them. If they were account bound, it would at least give alts of players with higher WvW ranks the ability to have equal power on siege.

timidobserver.7925:

Dagraan.2854:

timidobserver.7925:

They have already said that they have no intention of doing this. They would prefer to address the issue by making it easier to get ranks.

unless they have a better solution so alts only have to get 1 wxp to level till they catch up to the total but with no chest then that faster wxp solution sucks compared to account bound ranks.

The point being, it is pointless to waste time making a suggestion after they have said that it is completely the opposite of what they want to do. It would be better to think of other solutions instead of suggesting one that has already been shot down.

If enough people agree that it needs to be account based, then that’s how it needs to be. Anet might want to do it their way in the hopes of bending us to their will, but they also have to keep us happy with the game to keep us playing it. Try to push your agenda too hard, and you’ll only push your players away from the game.

I stopped doing WvW shortly after the ranks were added, but recently started doing it again, occasionally. The changes to WXP earnings are an improvement, but they are not enough. I don’t have the interest in WvW that I did before ranks were added, and I doubt I ever will. Making the ranks account based would improve that a lot. The only downside would be the constant additions to abilities, but that is much easier to accept with account based ranks.

As things are right now, when I get tired of playing my ranger, I’m likely done with WvW. I figured out last time I walked away from WvW that it was a major part of why I kept playing GW2, and returning to WvW kept me playing. If I walk away from WvW again, I’m not going to stay around in the game for long after.

Next week brings more abilities, with more ranks that 7 characters are behind in, and this new Bloolust mechanic. A couple weeks after that, WvW Season 1 will bring down the wrath of tier 1 servers on my server, or put my server into boring matchups where we rampage over much lower ranked servers every week. These are all things that have seen strong opposition from the community, yet are still coming. If they don’t want to listen to us now, maybe they’ll listen when they realize they’ve driven us away from the game.

I know this is my opinion, and how I feel about this. But I also know I’m not alone.

Terra Dactyl.2047:

nothing.7941:

If the majority really opposes this as I believe is the case, there’s only one real solution. Anet is doing this, our protests will be given lip service at best. But we don’t have to accept this unwanted, gvg destroying buff.

The servers in each match can agree that they will hold the orbs on their BLs only. That could be explicitly agreed to in the match thread for that week, announced in map chat from time to time, posted on server and guild forums, etc. Some people won’t agree to this, but if most do I think it could work. Just be vigilant about quickly re-taking orbs in your BL that get flipped, and don’t go after orbs on other BLs.

I suggested this like a week and a half ago. They know they don’t actually have the majority (just the most vocal minority) so they just kind of ignored me.

There are simply too many people to get this type of agreement to work, and as soon as someone flipped one point on an enemy BL, that entire treaty would likely fall apart. Whether or not we agree to dislike Bloodlust and want it gone, that extra power is a temptation, and people will want it. As much as I would love to see entire matchups where not even a single ruin was capped, I just don’t see that as possible.

This could work to balance a GvG match for a short time, as you will only need the cooperation of the currently active players. I just don’t think it’s viable longterm/match-wide.

Monsoon.2589:

This is specifically made so that you focus on one toon instead of constantly jumping. I myself would like to have the ranks shared but I also want to know how much I have played my individual classes. At the moment I am focusing on my warrior and I like that all my points go to her.

I think you are asking for too easy mode with this one because you can t make up your mind of what class you like to play and I understand that but I also understand what Anet is doing and I agree with them as this makes the game more interesting in the sense that is doesn t shink the time it takes to get to a certain rank.

Why does there need to be some mechanic to enforce a single character? You’re acting like enjoying more than a single profession is a bad thing. I don’t see how not being forced into thousands of hours of leveling per character is an “easy mode”. There is no reason for this other than the mistaken idea that a power-progression grind will keep us playing WvW longer. If anything, the imbalance and favoritism towards single character players is going to drive people away from it, or cause them to get bored of being forced to play the same character every time.

i swear the next thing you all will be complain about its having to actually lvl your alts to lvl 80 and the funniest part about that is it you can use the exact same reasoning behind it…its not alt friendly that i have to lvl my alts..its not alt friendly that i have to gear my alts bla bla bla….really get over it..its ment to be something to work for on your toons

It takes 80-100 hours to get to level 80 just by playing the game, and a lot less if you utilize crafting to gain levels. Even using birthday boosts (if avaialable) or WXP boosters (unrealistically expensive) along with a WXP zerg train, you are still looking at hundreds of hours just to get to the rank where you can unlock all abilities. With more typical WvW play, that is likely into the 1000 hour+ range. There is no comparison between that, and the short time it takes to get to level 80.

This is a lesson Anet already learned years ago in GW1. Many of the character based titles (some of which had skills or other passive effects linked to them) were made account based, because they strongly discouraged alts and presented too much grind for those with alts. They seemed to have forgotten this, and many other, lessons from GW1.

DevonCarver.5370:

The stat boost and the points for finishing players mean that not only do you want to have the buff, but you don’t want your opponents to have it.

I think the points for stomping is more than enough for me to not want my opponent to have it. Even if it were just magic find, or something similar, I’d rather my team have more stacks, and their teams have less/none. Giving them stats along with it serves to do nothing but pointlessly buff an already strong server.

This system would work fine in a balanced match. But take a look at the current scores, and you’ll find that most of them have more than 150,000 point differences, with many having that difference between 1st and 2nd place servers. This is going to be a complete disaster next month when the rank 1-3 servers are facing ranks 10-12. Less than 20 players being spawned camped by a server with 4 full map queues and stat buffs on top of that.

Pedra.4381:

So original intent. sPvP for hardcore, WvW for the more causal semi-PvP crowd. Changes are being made to benefit both. Hmmm, ok. But here’s the problem, Mr. Stealth, the genres are no longer separate. They are mashing them together. They are doing this, not us. So, if what you articulate as original intent is accurate, they’ve abandoned their original vision. And further, no one that plays WvW, casually or otherwise thinks that the upcoming “Seasons” or this “Bloodlust” are positive for WvW, so your argument about benefiting everyone in WvW seems moot. I contend, still, that they are willing to degrade the experience of WvW players in hopes of saving their dreams of sPvP as an E-sport. They are desperate at this point and it shows.

I’m not sure what changes you think are mashing the hardcore into WvW. I do see change to bring more casual players into certain aspects of sPvP, but is that actually having a direct effect on the hardcore aspect of it? I assume you can still just as easily have an sPvP match of between 2 teams of 5 organized players.

And I’m not sure how many times I need to point out in this thread that I think the upcoming seasons and borderland map changes are both horrible ideas. I never argued once that these changes actually benefit WvW in any way, but I do think believe that for Anet thinks they will benefit it. I don’t think they are intentionally damaging WvW in order to make sPvP more popular, they just don’t have any clue what they are doing. How does the saying go…Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

I don’t think they are trying to damage GvG either, they are just not taking it into consideration at all in their changes. If they wanted to put an end to GvG, I’m sure they could easily pull it off.

You are wrong in your assessment that guilds that prefer GvG do nothing for the PPT game. On most servers, given all the external factors, GvG is really frustrating and getting one organized is difficult. So those guilds spend most of their time running around the BL’s zerg busting and defending the “casual WvW” player.

I never claimed they do nothing for PPT. I said they do nothing for PPT while doing a GvG, which is completely accurate, while making it a point to acknowledge the fact that many of them also participate in WvW while not GvGing. The point is that doing that GvG does nothing for WvW, and whatever these players are doing outside of GvG does not matter at all in this. I could do WvW for 10 hours, and it would still not make it ok to run around the citadel with 25 players for an hour.

This is what we’re saying. It could be the exact same map. The solution could be as simple as what they did with the Jumping Puzzle. And then everyone’s happy.

If this is true then things said by various members of the development team are not truthful. During the Pax event (and subsequently in a post, I think), Colin said that the number of people playing WvW on a daily basis was greater than all the people that played GW1 during its peak. That sounds like a lot people. Josh said in several posts that he knew what he was doing with Tribulation Mode would appeal to only a small group of people but since ArenaNet wants to be inclusive it was done. Of the three statements, yours, Colin’s, and Josh’s, all of them can’t be true. I don’t dispute your position that PvE is the largest segment, only your thoughts on TM. So, in TM, there is precedence that (at least according to ArenaNet), they will cater to a small group. Now, actually, I think TM is all about ArenaNet trying to get written up in the trade journals, but that’s just me.

I would love to see them cater to the GvGers, but for whatever reason they seem to not think it’s worthwhile to do. They have access to a lot more data regarding what content is being played the most, and I’m sure that plays a part in their decisions to cater to certain groups of players, but not to others.

We’ll likely never know any of the numbers behind any of this. The only real player statistic we’ve seen is the 460,000 peak concurrent players number. Considering the speed at which GW2 sold millions of copies, that’s likely much higher than GW1 ever reached. GW1 had lots of sales, but that’s over many years giving people time to come and go. The number of players active in WvW each day, which I assume is total over 24 hours and not concurrent, is still likely a minority of the number of people logging in over a 24 hour period.

It comes down to whether or not the subset of a subset of the community is large enough for Anet to think it’s worthwhile to cater and make changes/new content. Right now it seems you’ve gotten their attention, but they’re just not seeing it as enough to warrant the changes.

Draygo.9473:

eithinan.9841:

Draygo.9473:

I am apologizing on behalf of kaineng, today we had a Mesmer attempting to port our zergs into objectives in EB, this person was caught in the act, recorded, and reported directly to ArenaNet support.

Kaineng does not tolerate hacking, we do spend extra effort to purge individuals who do this from our ranks.

Classy. But please refrain from server assassination. It is against TOS. Just report it directly to support and they will…haha..hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

I’m on kaineng. The server leadership was notified someone on our server was hacking and we took some direct action. I am simply informing you guys that action was taken and we found out who it was and reported the player directly to support with video evidence of the exploit.

I don’t think informing others of reporting a hacker from your own server would fall under that rule. Unless it was calling out a specific guild or person.

It’s good that there are leaders on Kain willing to do that. Sometimes it can be hard to tell if it’s hacking or just a very sneaky mesmer, and even harder to catch them in the act. Good job on your effort and success.

There was one on YB a while ago (months ago) that some of us suspected of doing the same thing, but never actually caught him in the act. He moved server shortly after that, so we didn’t really have much of a chance to catch it.

Pedra.4381:

Do you believe that all the changes they are making are to make WvW better or try and sell sPvP to a wider audience? If it’s the latter then he needs to say it straight up.

I think they want both, but they are going to make changes to both based on what their vision for each game type is. As far as highly organized PvP, it was made clear from the beginning that sPvP was the intended place for that to happen. WvW was sold as the more casual form of semi-PvP, so I don’t expect them to make changes catering to a hardcore organized group within WvW, but to make changes that support the WvW game type itself. That’s the message I got from Devon’s post, that they are focusing on WvW itself, not the unrelated sub-gametype of GvG that exists within it. I call it ‘unrelated’ because it has no impact on WvW battle/war score, aside from queue issues(which I actually saw happen last night).

Anet has made changes to sPvP to encourage more participation, and open it up to a more casual group of players. Probably because it was in very high demand, and because the casual playerbase is a lot larger than the hardcore playerbase. These changes also don’t have any impact on the hardcore segment of sPvP, as the matches are separate. Changes made to WvW to support GvG would impact WvW because everyone is on the same maps. Encouraging GvG on the current WvW maps only encourages the two to interfere with each other. What really needs to be done is to give GvGers a place of their own, even if it’s just a separate map/instance in WvW with no WvW related objectives.

They want to make changes to the game that affect as many people as possible? I wonder why that mindset doesn’t apply to Tribulation Mode of SAB. I can’t bring myself to believe that more people play TM than play GvG in WvW. Yet, ArenaNet has an entire team dedicated to that sub-genre.

There were a good number of requests for harder, more challenging content. I’d guess that the number of players interested in SAB TM is a lot higher than the GvG playerbase. Likely even higher than the amount of frequent WvW’ers. The PvE population is by far the largest segment of the playerbase.

TM is also just a rework of the SAB maps, not completely new content made by some separate team.

In regards to GvG on Yak’s Bend. Talk to [GLOB], [ONE], or [PRO] (just off the top my head). They can give you insight into attempts to organize GvG on YB. It’s happening.

I assume that most servers have GvG guilds. I don’t doubt that it’s happening, I know it is, but it’s still a small group in comparison to the WvW playerbase. The main reason you’re not likely to see WvW changes supporting GvG, is that GvG is not WvW. It’s an unrelated fight between two groups of players that does nothing for any team’s score. I realize that many of these players are participating in WvW while not GvG’ing, but that doesn’t make GvG important or validate its presence in WvW.

When I’m not doing something in PvE, I’m frequently in WvW. Does that mean more non-WvW-related PvE content should be added to cater to my liking of PvE content? I don’t think what’s in there now has any place in WvW (grub, vistas, etc). My point is that our preferences for game types other than WvW (whether that is PvP, GvG, or PvE) should not be catered to inside WvW. WvW is WvW, and if something is not directly related to WvW, it does not belong in the WvW maps.

Pedra.4381:

How much WvW do you actually play? I’m still waiting.

Most of this post is kitten and the player base recognizes it. Of the changes you’re making to WvW, please articulate the ones that you think are positive to GvG. I think we can figure out the negative ones.

It’s amazing to me that you would imply that GvG doesn’t apply to “as many people as possible”, in a game called Guild Wars. 99.99% of the players running around in WvW are guilded.

I think the upcoming changes, as well as some previous ones, are absolutely horrible for WvW as a whole, but I don’t see what is so wrong with Devon’s post. He is straight up telling you that the GvG scene is simply not a consideration in their decisions right now. Sure that sucks for the GvGers, but it’s about as clear and honest as you can get.

And GvG doesn’t apply to that many people. The GvG community is small compared to the overall WvW community, which many GvGers are a part of. They are going to base decisions on what they think is best for the the larger community, even though many of us see that these decisions are not good for anyone. I don’t agree with the decisions, but I do agree with their intent. They aren’t trying to help GvGs, they aren’t trying to stamp them out, they are making decisions as if GvG didn’t exist. I’m not sure what else you can expect when you are trying to do something that was never intended to happen in WvW. Making even a small change to cater to only the GvG community would be giving it a “stamp of approval”, which is obviously something they are not prepared to do right now. This is most likely because GvG doesn’t bring anything to WvW. I realize that many GvG guilds are also active WvW guilds, but their actions during a GvG do nothing for the WvW matchup. What they do outside of a GvG does not serve to validate GvGs, or make their desires for GvG-related changes any more important.

The game is called Guild Wars for lore reasons, and to carry the same franchise name as the previous game. The “Guild Wars” was a period over 250 years ago during which 3 separate wars broke out between guild representing the 3 human kingdoms of Tyria. It has nothing to do with organized wars between player guilds.

And yes, most of us are guilded, but that doesn’t mean everyone in a guild has any interest in GvG. I’m in a guild of 500 (pvx, though more are PvE’ers), and I have none. I don’t recall anyone trying to get GvGs going, despite having a decent amount of frequent WvW’ers.