If you run hammer, and have AoE burns, trap them in the Ring of Warding and then burn their kitten. Thieves do lack for condition removal, especially against burns.
Thief lacks condition cleanse? Lol, are we playing the same game? Thief has the best condition cleanse period in game. Stealth removes 2 condition over 3 sec, spammable too. Shadow step removes condition, and stun breaker too, and its spamable. And there is signet cleanse. Even elixir engi don’t have so many spammable cleanse.
Purging Flames pulses 5 times over 5 seconds, reapplying the burn. It’s deadly when the thief is trapped in its AoE by Ring of Warding.
shadow step or sword 2 outta the ring, easily countered.
Thief is nowhere near ‘lack of condition removal’.
(edited by noobftw.9654)
Stack toughness and a guardian should rarely if ever get cracked for 8k. Well built guardians can handle thieves most of the time. They may not be able to catch and kill them due to a lack of overall mobility but that is the side effect for being such a strong group class.
D/P thieves, walk into the circle on the ground before they leap out of it. S/D thieves, do not fight where there are ledges and other terrain limiting areas. They often blink around terrain obstacles. D/D thieves, avoid dropping below 50%. Boons are your friend since most thief builds cannot manage those at all.
Thief lacks condition cleanse? Lol, are we playing the same game? Thief has the best condition cleanse period in game. Stealth removes 2 condition over 3 sec, spammable too. Shadow step removes condition, and stun breaker too, and its spamable. And there is signet cleanse. Even elixir engi don’t have so many spammable cleanse.
It is 1 condition every 3 seconds in stealth and numerous classes can stack multiple conditions way faster than that. Shadow Return is no longer a stun breaker. Shadowstep is only spamable with the S/? build. The thief most certainly does NOT have the best condition removal not even close. The D/D ele is vastly superior (and does it for groups) as well as the necro. Even a ranger can get better condition removal if traited for it.
dd ele full cantrip build with 30 in arcane 30 in water has 1 cleanse every 40/3 sec (3 cantrip calc’ed with lowest cd) + 1 cleanse from evasive arcane in water (every 10 sec) + 1 cleanse from water attunement(every 10 sec). That’s about 1 cleanse every 4+ sec. Rune of dwayna is not included coz ele rarely used dwayna.
And thief has 2 cleanse every 3 secs plus extra cleanse from shadowsteps.
Number speaks.
This thread, instead, should be titled:
Not a Thief? Whine About Them
I am a thief. I play a incredible cheap one wvw roamer for a long time. I also play a dd ele roamer, Condi engi Zerg fighter, a BM ranger roamer and other all 8 profs. I started as a thief and spent 5 month exclusively on her. It’s not until any thief player start to main other prof so they can admit thief is ridiculously op in wvw roaming. What make the community more frustrated is while anet nerfs down the pillar mechanism of other profs such as cantrip for ele and pet for ranger, it intends to keep the most abused stealth where it is while adding more mobility to the class. It’s funny 1 year after launch the CnD on wall still works while rangers still don’t have a single reliable counter to immobilize.
Oh , but let me be clear, thief is not op in pvp and wvw Zerg fight.
Advice for those who have undue trouble with thieves:
- travel to the heart of the mists
- fix your build and improve your skills through playing sPvP
- realise you were probably just bad
- enjoy killing thieves
thieves with near perma stealth are a total kitten, and hopefully will be slightly adjusted with mesmer (the other berserker class), but it’s a fine line and thereforetheyare still very much defeatable
Wvw is not spvp. Thief don’t have to win a single duel to be the most op wvw roamer. Until you can understand this lets not waste others’ time.
If you run hammer, and have AoE burns, trap them in the Ring of Warding and then burn their kitten. Thieves do lack for condition removal, especially against burns.
Thief lacks condition cleanse? Lol, are we playing the same game? Thief has the best condition cleanse period in game. Stealth removes 2 condition over 3 sec, spammable too. Shadow step removes condition, and stun breaker too, and its spamable. And there is signet cleanse. Even elixir engi don’t have so many spammable cleanse.
So we went from thieves being overpowered to being pretty meh but able to run away. I’m sorry, but stealth is a powerful mechanic. The class as a whole compensates for the great power in stealth by having no real damage mitigation. Just like the thief gives up stability in favor of mobility.
There are only 2 legitimate complaints people can raise with the thief class.
1.) Initiative regen isn’t properly balanced.
2.) Movement skills for all classes can be used when incapacitated.For 1, if you actually played a thief, you’d know that any changes to initiative regen would need to be offset with enormous boosts in other areas because the class simply doesn’t have the tools to stand toe to toe with others for long and its burst potential outside of stealth is limited.
For 2, it’s a global problem and if you’re going to change it for the thief you’re going to have to change it for everyone.
But seriously, the thief is a strong roamer, but hardly better than Guardians, Mesmers, Elementalists, and Rangers offensively. Defensively the only complaint is the ability to run away. Which the class apparently bought by being useless in groups as opposed to the other classes.
no real damage mitigation? lol, how about spammable dodge, spammable teleport (that breaks stun and cleanse)?
Players seem to underestimate what reliable escape can do for wvw roamers. I can kinda agree with you if it’s spvp. But in wvw a reliable escape is the business, only when you know how to play a wvw roamer thief you can understand why though.
I’ve never seen a hacker in any mode and I’ve been here since the betas. You want to see a game that has let hackers get out of control to contrast? See S4 League.
I have, multiple times.
Here’s a real obvious one for you with a ranger
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=os1TNTdrwaEAnd here with a thief
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yv-GYR8hyy0Those two videos look like lag. If you know about optimization, then you know that if someone is lagging, clients looking at that player will try to “guess” where they go. This is, in short, saying if they press W, then until you receive the next packet of where they are (which can be slow because of them), then you’ll see them with W held down, even though they might have hit D or A or E or Q. From there, it’s easy to say that the ranger was lagging, as if he truly was lagging, he would have just escaped.
With the thief, it doesn’t seem obvious at all that he was using that “subtle speed/teleport hack” that is in the description. For all we know, with the quality, he could have used Shortbow 5, or Infiltrator’s Strike. Heck he could have even been using Shadow Shot or Infiltrator’s Arrow.
I’ve seen someone pull off that blink hacking thingy long time back, he (a ranger) was disengaging and reengaging shooting arrow from everywhere then just blink away faster than RTL. So I know there is indeed such BLINK hack, but I have never seen anyone else done that since then.
For the first vid, you might be right, the ranger is just lagging.
I’ve never seen a hacker in any mode and I’ve been here since the betas. You want to see a game that has let hackers get out of control to contrast? See S4 League.
I have, multiple times.
Here’s a real obvious one for you with a ranger
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=os1TNTdrwaEAnd here with a thief
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yv-GYR8hyy0
The ranger is most likely hacking.
The thief is legit. The mesmer of 2nd vid is completely inexperienced countering a thief. First off, NEVER fight a thief when there are wild animals spawn point around if you are not one.
I’d challenge any dev to pick any class/spec other than perma-stealth thief and try to solo a perma-stealth thief.
I’d challenge any 3 developers to pick any class/spec other than perma-stealth thief and try to solo a perma-stealth thief.
I’d challenge 5 to try solo a good perma-stealth thief.
Guard, Mes, Eng > Thief solo.
dueling wise maybe, condition engi rules 1v1, guardian counters burst thief well enough. But ‘solo’ does not equal to dueling.
Thief has the best escape mechanismS in game, spammable stealth and spammable teleport, and spammable leap. They don’t need to win a single duel to be the best roamer in wvw.
So they can travel fine, not much to write home about. People complain that Thieves are OP, yet Gaurdians can out do pretty much every class in almost everything important in WvW, (not to mention are considered extremely viable in all modes) and no one screams nerf at them. Double Standard much. (Well back to WvW, Staff 4 and hammer to win ppl)
Becareful on the thief op accusation. They are just fine in spvp, a little weak in tourny, does ok in wvw zerg fight. But ridiculously OP in wvw roaming. Maybe you should really think about what thieves can do as wvw roamers.
So far all I’ve got is killing Dolyaks, Scouting, Killing Sentries, killing newbies, harrassing veterns, contesting places, running supplies, hiding mesmers, setting traps. Really apart from the mesmer and traps thing, there’s not much thieves can do to contribute to their server’s points tick.
There are a couple of more nasty tricks thieves can do.
But even in your list of crimes alone, reliable scouting contributes big time to the outcome of zerg fight. And WP contesting greatly hinders the sustainability of enemy zerg. What makes things worse is often time a small group of zerg would try to take care of the roaming thief in pointless fights instead of doing what they are supposed to do. Of course most likely they will failed to get him, which is kinda bad on morale. All other things you mentioned helps too. Even killing upleveled noobs would help send them to sleep.
The thief was an example, not an accusation. Get over it.
He has a valid point. I’ve seen teleporting in action and it’s not specific to one profession, just to individual kittens. Catching and banning those individuals is an endless and toothless hunt, what they need to do is render their hack tools non-functional. Those tools are easy to find online, there are whole forums dedicated to them, and if you read them a bit you’ll see that there are rarely any real consequences to using them. The irony is, if you call any of those tools out on these forums, you get an infraction.
This thread will soon be locked down or deleted, mark my words, since as far as ANet is concerned, hacking doesn’t happen. Meanwhile, here, buy some RNG chests from the Gem Store.
Lol, what else classes you caught doing the ‘HACKING’? Mesmer? Guardian? Ele?
They all have teleport skills even double/triple teleport.
I am not saying there are no hacker. But they get cleaned pretty fast.
I’d challenge any dev to pick any class/spec other than perma-stealth thief and try to solo a perma-stealth thief.
I’d challenge any 3 developers to pick any class/spec other than perma-stealth thief and try to solo a perma-stealth thief.
I’d challenge 5 to try solo a good perma-stealth thief.
Guard, Mes, Eng > Thief solo.
dueling wise maybe, condition engi rules 1v1, guardian counters burst thief well enough. But ‘solo’ does not equal to dueling.
Thief has the best escape mechanismS in game, spammable stealth and spammable teleport, and spammable leap. They don’t need to win a single duel to be the best roamer in wvw.
So they can travel fine, not much to write home about. People complain that Thieves are OP, yet Gaurdians can out do pretty much every class in almost everything important in WvW, (not to mention are considered extremely viable in all modes) and no one screams nerf at them. Double Standard much. (Well back to WvW, Staff 4 and hammer to win ppl)
Becareful on the thief op accusation. They are just fine in spvp, a little weak in tourny, does ok in wvw zerg fight. But ridiculously OP in wvw roaming. Maybe you should really think about what thieves can do as wvw roamers.
Today I got onto teamspeak and spent around an hour with a commander and his squad. I got one badge. Not only that, it was incredibly boring with him saying “Stack on me…moving out 1,2,3”, then off to some tower to be killed by the opposing zerg. I can’t even pretend that my presence matters. I can safely say that were I not there, nothing would have changed, and no outcome would have been different.
So far, the quickest way for me to get badges has still been the jumping puzzle. This is the second time I’ve gotten onto teamspeak with a zerg and though I got more badges the first time, it was just as boring.
I don’t know the way around this. I mean I know it’s “World vs World”, so there’s gonna be big battles. But…dammit it’s boring as hell. And if you’re in a smaller zerg, you just get eaten up by bigger ones and don’t even have time to collect your loot bags.
I’m on EU server Seafarer’s Rest.
Maybe I can solo supply camps. I’ve done that too. But I hardly get any badge drops from veterans. And I can’t solo a tower or a keep. And there’s no guarantee that the lord will drop a badge either. It’s just too slow.
So is mindless zerging the only way people get their badges? With jumping puzzles I’ve accumulated around 450 badges for my gift of battle. I’d have liked to earn them some other way. I want to like WvW but no matter how many times I’ve tried, there’s just nothing for me to do.
So after I get my gift of battle (should be any day now), what reason do we have to come back?
Used to play thief hide up in the keep before its taken and CnD on walls while chewing on RL food or sipping beers. Gets interesting if not found. I can teamchat so if there were mesmer dead inside they won’t release. Even if I get found, it takes at least 10 to get me, draw their forces from where they should have been. And most of the time I escape unharmed out of boredom.
that’s when I refused to play any classes other than thief.
so basically OP do not know how thieves play their game, and accused them of hacking ?
lol…..
OP is calling thieves hackers
I’d challenge any dev to pick any class/spec other than perma-stealth thief and try to solo a perma-stealth thief.
I’d challenge any 3 developers to pick any class/spec other than perma-stealth thief and try to solo a perma-stealth thief.
I’d challenge 5 to try solo a good perma-stealth thief.
Guard, Mes, Eng > Thief solo.
dueling wise maybe, condition engi rules 1v1, guardian counters burst thief well enough. But ‘solo’ does not equal to dueling.
Thief has the best escape mechanismS in game, spammable stealth and spammable teleport, and spammable leap. They don’t need to win a single duel to be the best roamer in wvw.
Thiefs are definitely OP:
two noob thieves.
first they both over-committed to the fight
Charr uses dp pd build, which doesn’t make sense
Human hits on sanctuary like drunk probably doesn’t know what sanctuary is.
Later half of the match they were outfocused probably just trying to party and talk to the guardian.
pretty sure those are not hacking, I main a thief I know all these can be done:
1. Dodge spam: 15 into Acrobatics, use withdraw as #6 and Vigorous Recovery trait, with help of food ( forget its name, doubles your endurance regen) and roll for initiative if you want more fun. You can dodge all the way through entire combat. If you evidently run out of endurance stealth yourself.
2. Stealth spam: with p/d or d/d , CnD (#6 skill) on the enemy , or enemy pets, or enemy clone, or wild animal, or stationary wall, or stationary enemy siege. Not good enough for ya? Here is the d/p build, smoke field #6, heartseeker #2, turn around and heartseeker over smoke again, rinse and repeat, woala, perma stealth.
3. Teleport spam, s/d build, just do 222222222, not enough, you can equip shadowstep in utility too.
yay, thief is amazing, that’s why anet devs all play thieves.
Just ignore them—don’t feed and it’ll go away and look for responses elsewhere. Roaming WvW thieves are looking to feed on your rage. Thief is the Troll class, anet got completely carried away making them and people have taken that to the next level, as the players always take things further than the devs can envision.
Mesmers are pretty slow, at least from what I’ve seen/heard, so maybe you should roll a class more suited to escaping from others, like a… oh yeah, have you tried a Thief?
problem is if the roaming thief is tagging your wp, or CnD your occupied siege, or CnD your tower wall when there is mesmer body around, you can’t ignore him. And it takes ridicules amount of effort to kill it if you are successful. Most cases the thief can easily get away.
Funny thing is I used to be on the other side of the equation, I ran a roaming thief and mess around a sizable zerg, or anti-capping a camp in front of 50 zergs ( before the stealth cap patch). CnD thief is actually quite fine as long as there is no CnD on siege or on wall.
Thieves are fine in spvp.
They are ok in WVW zerg fight.
Way too op in small group fight or wvw roaming.
It takes too much effort to kill a roaming thief while the thief can tag the WP, CnD occupied siege, CnD tower wall and ress dead mesmers and etc. The risk/benefit ratio is ridicules.
Thief provides way too much support in small group fight than other classes. Ability of safekeeping downed allies is priceless and key to wipe the other group.
If you stay with the zerg 100% of the time, yes, thief is ok in wvw.
But if you roam either alone or in small groups, thief is hella op.
wanna kill a thief in wvw?
Got AOE? if not forget about it. 5 points in SA will make you feel useless to a thief.
If you have AOE, you also need good dps/burst, thieves are at the top of sustainability.
If you got AOE and dps, chances are if you are squishy, thief most likely will get you first.
Even if you are tough and bursty at the same time, which is quite possible for an dd ele or condition engi, as long as thief has shadow refuge, s/he can still reset a fight which you are already winning. Even if thief dont have SR, s/he can still do many other things such as smokefied/leap combo or CnD at wild animal/wall to reset the fight.
Is thief possible to kill? Definitely yes, it requires a good sized zerg to kill a sober thief when the zerg is lucky.
In general, it requires significantly more skills to escape from a zerg if you play a ranger or any other classes while the same task for a thief requires 0 skill at all.
Throughout this video they say that it’s so people didn’t feel forced to participate in PvP in order to get their wings achievement.
I disagree with them, but there you have it.
great, now I have to watch dev livestreams to make sure my time is well spent. I guess I will have to call anet customer service next time before I invest my time in anything major.
easy to get em? I guess maybe, since all you got to do is pressing F.
Hardly see the point of this event
so 3 hours of having to put up with afkers for nothing?
Can anyone enlighten me? I spent hours finishing those 2 events only to find they don’t count.
And I am dead serious.
1) BM rangers where OP, end of story. I specked BM for fun and facerolled 1 v 3 in WvW, without actually knowing what I am doing.
The nerf on Pets was needed, they were just too strong.
The Jaguars base damage wasn’T even reduced, just his F2 got a nerf and I can live with that!2) Other Non-Pet focused builds got buffed with offhand Axe and LB damage increase
The spirit tree buffs offer some great choices for GS Warriors with Frost Spirit support (believe it or not, this build already was strong in sPVP)
Offhand Axe buff is just awesome, I was running Sw/Axe already and now I can rock even more – thanks ANet!
The Longbow buff was needed and we will see how much damage increase there will actually be. I expect not too much but still a noticable improvement.3) SB nerf. The only thing I don’t get, but since everybody was running shortbow (if not BM specced) I can understand it somehow.
4)Trait Changes
Imho very good stuff. Some more tweeking for Signet Ranger required, but it got a lot better.
Healing on Shouts sounds fun, I will defenetly try this out.
This could become one of the best Bunker builds GW2 has seen.TL;DR: Am I seriously the only one who thinks, the (leaked) Patch notes are a good thing for us? ANet offered 2-3 more viable builds with this by slightly nerfing the BM Bunker.
Thanks ANet!
Facerolling in 1v3 in WvW? I call BS. Either the opponents are lowlevel or they just suck. Seriously, vid or GTFO
It’s easy to 1v3 as long as they are noobs or they don’t understand the pets needs to be avoided. You can call it faceroll too since ranger SB dps is on autoattack which a lot of newbies don’t understand either ( they used up all 2 3 4 5 skills once entering the fight).
But ranger is no way near OP even in its best build in wvw.
worst patch ever. I am so disappointed.
And I am dead serious.
1) BM rangers where OP, end of story. I specked BM for fun and facerolled 1 v 3 in WvW, without actually knowing what I am doing.
The nerf on Pets was needed, they were just too strong.
The Jaguars base damage wasn’T even reduced, just his F2 got a nerf and I can live with that!2) Other Non-Pet focused builds got buffed with offhand Axe and LB damage increase
The spirit tree buffs offer some great choices for GS Warriors with Frost Spirit support (believe it or not, this build already was strong in sPVP)
Offhand Axe buff is just awesome, I was running Sw/Axe already and now I can rock even more – thanks ANet!
The Longbow buff was needed and we will see how much damage increase there will actually be. I expect not too much but still a noticable improvement.3) SB nerf. The only thing I don’t get, but since everybody was running shortbow (if not BM specced) I can understand it somehow.
4)Trait Changes
Imho very good stuff. Some more tweeking for Signet Ranger required, but it got a lot better.
Healing on Shouts sounds fun, I will defenetly try this out.
This could become one of the best Bunker builds GW2 has seen.TL;DR: Am I seriously the only one who thinks, the (leaked) Patch notes are a good thing for us? ANet offered 2-3 more viable builds with this by slightly nerfing the BM Bunker.
Thanks ANet!
thief 1 v zerg any build you name it in wvw
dd ele 1 v zerg if you got quick keyboard skills
condition eng 1 v ANY 1 or 2 in wvw
….
All above are fine but when BM ranger can 1 v 3 noobs in wvw, oh, big problem, lets nerf it.
Get real man, I bet none of those 3 have immobilize on them and none of them are real burst dmg build aren’t they?
Before bashing the only viable build ranger has, now play against someone who knows how to deal with BM ranger first?
This leaked patch is typical a*et mindset, fixing the problem of LB by SB nerf.
It seems to me anet lacks the understanding of SB LB just as a below average Joe.
Crossfire doing more dps than other SB attack is not a problem at all, it’s just what this unique weapon brings to the gameplay — DPS is on autoattack and other skills are to be saved to daze healing ( sb 5), chase (sb 4), extra dodge (sb 3). Other weapon sets rely on 2 3 4 5 to do dps but a good SBer needs to save those skills so the pet can do more dps when used at the right time or daze the healing animation and whatnot. It probably takes average joe player years to understand SB is different from ,say a condition engi or dd ele while complaining about rangers only doing crossfire with no skills. The unique characteristic is what makes this weapon interesting, and now anet wants to change it so 2 3 4 5 is just like the 2 3 4 5 of a pp engi? Why don’t we just erase this weapon ?
3. if anet decides axe is the way to go, fine, make some normal animation. My ranger toon looks like humpback spitting in axing.
I just feel it’s my responsibility now or never to give anet some advice before it ruins my atm fav class after what they did to nader, point defender thief, dd ele, pw thief and etc, coz you know, I don’t want to quit this game yet. yep, not yet.
ok, let’s just be clear, I am perfectly fine if anet wants every ranger to quit shortbow and pick up an axe as if there are not enough axe ranger in pvp already, and I am perfectly fine with anet to nerf pet attack as pets make standstill peeps cry. But before anet preaches us how to play ranger (bah, axe/dagger, sword/torch(or warhorn)) uniformly, please consider below advices when you are sober:
1. Lets do the nerf in spvp only shall we. Rangers are already bottom of the popularitiometer at dungeoning and probably the most useless classes in wvw. Again don’t get me wrong, I know how BM ranger can be good in small fights, but wvw is just not small fights.
2. How about its time to give ranger a good counter to immobilize? FGS, ranger is the only class that don’t have any reliable immobilize counter. Signet of renewal only works if pet is around (not dead and must be close). BM ranger can be tough and whatnot, but often times it only takes 1 immobilize to kill BM ranger.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hidden_Assassin
Gain might for 15 seconds when you go into stealth.
— In-game description
Notes
This trait actually grants two stacks of might for every 3 seconds in stealth. This is relevant for stacking, such as when using Shadow Refuge.so you are trying say that, since what [hidden assassin] actually does (gain x2 might 15s every 3 seconds in stealth) does not matches with [hidden assassin]’s description (gain might 15s upon entering stealth) so [hidden assassin] is bugged?
well, i hope they fix the description soon to match what [hidden assassin] does.
the new description should be:
Gain might for 15 seconds while in stealth.
— In-game descriptionyeah we know how vague they can be with in game descriptions right?
Toughness is actually way better than vitality when you have spamable cleanse and healing. SA is quite a sweet spot there . Not saying its op because of that. If u read my post you will know its the bugged minor 25 trait when it’s abused in dp build.
I am pretty sure when dev put together the sa trait they didn’t realize that minor 25 can be spammed by leap through the same smoke field. If u have two thieves working together you can spam leap finisher nonestop and its quite possible to get 20 stacks or even more in wvw, with a wall and some helps from runes you can even get full stacks.
why not?
perhaps it would be over powered if the thief has [heavy] armor and [high] health pool but this is not the case.
given how the thief has [medium] armor and [low] health pool i would say the shadow arts traits line is not over powered.
more vitality means more health is always good against conditions though. and helps to survive lag spikes.
low health pool with high defense value (toughness + armor) will still succumb against conditions.
Look what I said in my post
realize that the SA tree != Thief class as a whole so one trait line being amazingly good doesn’t necessarily mean the class is overpowered.
In any case, I honestly don’t believe the Thief sub-forum has any grip on what actual ‘balance’ is. Play another class for a while, see how good you have it. We aren’t even that bad in PvE.
I always get stunned when people saying xxx class is weak in pve. How can it get south when you fighting the code? Theif in particular is quite fine in pve, we can provide good dps, good bleeding if want to, perma blind if wanted, projectile blocker, stealth ress …. Oh yea, we more than just fine in pve and dungeon.
^ I agree… As a thief I barely use any sort of toughness since I mainly use stealth. I kind of wish vitality was tied to Shadow Arts but that would be kind of OP. 15k health And stealth, what a deal.
Toughness is actually way better than vitality when you have spamable cleanse and healing. SA is quite a sweet spot there . Not saying its op because of that. If u read my post you will know its the bugged minor 25 trait when it’s abused in dp build.
IMO shadow arts is way op
- I am fairly certain that you, as a “thief” (good lie, why would you cry about your own class thakitten is OP) got owned by some thief.
- No one cares whether you think that something is op or not
- Stop qqing. Only noobs do. Owait your name is “noobftw”, i forgot.
- Deal with it! These kind of players destroy good classes because they don’t have enough skill!
- If you think that the might stacking + “big” hp-regeneration is “OP”, look at the ele…. might stacking: 3x Blast Finisher into its own Fire Field + Sigil of Battle (works on Attunement swap) = 12 Might (+30% Boon Duration from Arcana). Hp-Regeneration: not high but lots of burst heals.
- The might stacks stacking point is a joke i assume? Truly one of the most ineffective ways to achieve up to 10 stacks of might!
Geeze, learn to read will ya? When and where did I say thief is op, healing from major 30 is op? I have repeated over and over, " The current trait lineup makes SA op" as compared to DA. Since when you get 30 SA you can basically get the same burst dmg as 25 30 0 0 15 build on top of other healing, cleanse, permastealth from SA. The fact that minor 25 is triggered when you stack stealth duration as opposed to the skill description"gain 2 stacks of might when you GO INTO stealth" makes d/p thief able to abuse this trait.
I have dps-tested comparing DA build to SA build and the result is they do the same backstabbing damage, and if you disagree do yours and let the number speak will ya?
and please get REAL, might stacking is op, why do you think ANET nerfed sigil of battle for? I love to play op meta might stacking builds of engi, ele and thief but I am not afraid to say some of these builds are op ANET please nerf them so we can start seeing more interesting builds.
BTW, before calling people noob, invite me to a duel and let me know which professions you want me to duel you with, got bawlls?So is it D/P or is it SA that is OP ? Many ppl (including me) make their builds around SA for d/d, s/d, p/d. And no you cant get same burst damage with SA. DA will burst way more. DA offers 250-300 more atk power, +5% dagger training and +10 % damage when target has condition on it versus 4-6 stacks of might in the middle of battle while using SA with x/d. I wont advocate D/P cause I do agree its kinda OP, but its not the trait fault, its easy to acess stealth stack mechanics and blind fields.
D/P is fine without the bug on SA minor 25 (the bug meaning gaining might when stacking stealth duration). The reality is thief is actually underpowered in tourny, because of stealth, we never can be good point defender ( we used to be able to with condition build but that’s long gone). The only role we can do well in tourny is burst damage. It’s funny that as thief we can’t do point stealer well either since our burst is not strong enough to duel most of point defender meta builds. The damage from SA line really doesn’t help much since whenever we stacking might in stealth we are actually losing points.The only place its good for is wvw small roaming group or solo troll.
And what I am asking for is to move this might stacking minor 25 trait to DA maybe minor 15 and restore mug to give us more burst from DA while keeping the permastealth, healing . cleanse in SA and make SA minor 25 a stat conversion trait. This way we get buffed in tourny and slightly nerfed in the meta d/p wvw troll build so we might be seeing the real burst build 25/30/0/0/15 coming back to WVW and people might start trying out different traits for Sword/Dagger build instead of the same traits from d/p.
I am sick’nTired of seeing 80% of toons during wvw trash hours are d/p thieves and peeps qqin us op basedon that while actually we quite underpowered in tourny. Fixing the SA line would be a good remedy IMO to fix that.
clueless OR this: http://dagobah.net/flash/successful_troll_2.swf
it’s the only one DECENT for pve,
gtfo out of our forum !i would ban you all for trolling an already weak pve class
lolz, for someone who has problem with PVE content, ya sure talk like a bozz.
I’m not the one trolling here, I could say the same for you! Next time you accuse something to be OP, at least show it in a viable gameplay. Moreover, this game got no precise DPS measurements, sometimes I kill an NPC mob in 3 hits, and sometimes the same mob takes more to kill using the exact same strategy. Especially if your build is critical strikes dependent. So I still find no logic in your comparison.
so this is your logic? “this game got no precise DPS measurements, sometimes I kill an NPC mob in 3 hits, and sometimes the same mob takes more to kill using the exact same strategy.” ? LOLzz, if your logic applies, can I say SOMETIMES a condition 0 0 30 20 20 thief does more backstab damage than 25 30 0 0 15 zerker thief?
What are these bots in pvp there for? decorations?
IMO shadow arts is way op
- I am fairly certain that you, as a “thief” (good lie, why would you cry about your own class that it is OP) got owned by some thief.
- No one cares whether you think that something is op or not
- Stop qqing. Only noobs do. Owait your name is “noobftw”, i forgot.
- Deal with it! These kind of players destroy good classes because they don’t have enough skill!
- If you think that the might stacking + “big” hp-regeneration is “OP”, look at the ele…. might stacking: 3x Blast Finisher into its own Fire Field + Sigil of Battle (works on Attunement swap) = 12 Might (+30% Boon Duration from Arcana). Hp-Regeneration: not high but lots of burst heals.
- The might stacks stacking point is a joke i assume? Truly one of the most ineffective ways to achieve up to 10 stacks of might!
Geeze, learn to read will ya? When and where did I say thief is op, healing from major 30 is op? I have repeated over and over, " The current trait lineup makes SA op" as compared to DA. Since when you get 30 SA you can basically get the same burst dmg as 25 30 0 0 15 build on top of other healing, cleanse, permastealth from SA. The fact that minor 25 is triggered when you stack stealth duration as opposed to the skill description"gain 2 stacks of might when you GO INTO stealth" makes d/p thief able to abuse this trait.
I have dps-tested comparing DA build to SA build and the result is they do the same backstabbing damage, and if you disagree do yours and let the number speak will ya?
and please get REAL, might stacking is op, why do you think ANET nerfed sigil of battle for? I love to play op meta might stacking builds of engi, ele and thief but I am not afraid to say some of these builds are op ANET please nerf them so we can start seeing more interesting builds.
BTW, before calling people noob, invite me to a duel and let me know which professions you want me to duel you with, got bawlls?
(edited by noobftw.9654)
Stacking it out of combat can be tedious for most builds minus D/P, unless you want to waste a shadow refuge, of course. Either way having to CnD 5 times + having to wait 4s each time for 10 stacks of might(you can’t even reach 10 stacks of might with CnD chaining, so I don’t know where OP got his information from) and then catching up to the enemy is rather tedious. By the time I usually reach the enemy I have 2 stacks of might left if I’m lucky. It simply doesn’t work imo, and I don’t know why OP said that might stacking through CnD chaining is in any way OP. It’s very inefficient and simply cannot apply effectively in real world combat.
As for D/P, I don’t understand why someone would waste that much initiative for 10 stacks of might, especially since D/P itself takes up more initiative than CnD.
Using D/P smoke field + leap you can stack 6 might with one smoke screen every 4-5 sec and if you can find a wall and leap against it, you can even get 8 stacks , you can get so much stealth duration from it that when you step back to backstab position you are most likely full initiative again.
Try out 10 30 30 0 0 d/p against 25 30 0 0 15 d/d, d/d does 5.4k against heavy bot w/o popping the shadow signet and 5.7k when popping it. d/p with modest 10 stacks of might does 5.4k w/o popping signet and 5.6 popping. While the peramstealth, cleanse, healing and endless combat reset button provides by SA line is THE best survivability line, even dwarfs ele water and arcane coz of the stealth.
Again I have no problem with SA minor 25 alone, the thing is when it’s combined with permastealth and the erroneous fact that this trait is triggered when you stack stealth duration as oppose to the description “Gain might for 15 seconds when you GO INTO stealth”. It’s quite fine for CnD since it really can’t be spammed and you only gain might when you regain stealth as it’s designed, but it’s just wrong when d/p can spam it while in stealth. Also I am not asking for a overhaul of SA line, but instead I am asking for either move this minor 25 to maybe DA or move the major 30. Having both burst damage (esp from d/p build) and survivability in the same trait line at 2 traits right next to each other is not balanced at all.So basically a class that has damage as main role, gets a little increase in damage in their defensive trait line…. Thank you for stating the obvious….. Having few stacks of might will NOT one shot people. In fact, almost ALL of the 1vX videos I’ve seen attack without wasting any time trying to stack few might before engaging.
Another thing to show your incompetence, SA is a stealth dependent trait line, and so the minor trait complements it. Where as DA is condition reliant, and so its minor trait line (Exposed Weakness Deal 10% more damage if your target has a condition) is quite good for it. So please just stop there….
hehe, try those two builds on pvp heavy bots and come back with damage number then we shall stalk again shall we?
“d/d does 5.4k against heavy bot w/o popping the shadow signet and 5.7k when popping it. d/p with modest 10 stacks of might does 5.4k w/o popping signet and 5.6 popping. "
Again I have no problem with SA minor 25 alone, the thing is when it’s combined with permastealth and the erroneous fact that this trait is triggered when you stack stealth duration as oppose to the description “Gain might for 15 seconds when you GO INTO stealth”. It’s quite fine for CnD since it really can’t be spammed and you only gain might when you regain stealth as it’s designed, but it’s just wrong when d/p can spam it while in stealth.
Why would you spam stealth to get 10 stacks of might for a backstab? In that time you could just backstab twice for more overall damage and less initiative, lmfao.
ITs the might stacking ability OOC that makes it nice… It’s hard for other classes to do. (Ele/mes/etc) You can stack it up before you get to the first fight easy. And then do your two backstabs for more damage then well just 2 backstabs :P And it can stay up for awhile.
Stacking it out of combat can be tedious for most builds minus D/P, unless you want to waste a shadow refuge, of course. Either way having to CnD 5 times + having to wait 4s each time for 10 stacks of might(you can’t even reach 10 stacks of might with CnD chaining, so I don’t know where OP got his information from) and then catching up to the enemy is rather tedious. By the time I usually reach the enemy I have 2 stacks of might left if I’m lucky. It simply doesn’t work imo, and I don’t know why OP said that might stacking through CnD chaining is in any way OP. It’s very inefficient and simply cannot apply effectively in real world combat.
As for D/P, I don’t understand why someone would waste that much initiative for 10 stacks of might, especially since D/P itself takes up more initiative than CnD.
Using D/P smoke field + leap you can stack 6 might with one smoke screen every 4-5 sec and if you can find a wall and leap against it, you can even get 8 stacks , you can get so much stealth duration from it that when you step back to backstab position you are most likely full initiative again.
Try out 10 30 30 0 0 d/p against 25 30 0 0 15 d/d, d/d does 5.4k against heavy bot w/o popping the shadow signet and 5.7k when popping it. d/p with modest 10 stacks of might does 5.4k w/o popping signet and 5.6 popping. While the peramstealth, cleanse, healing and endless combat reset button provides by SA line is THE best survivability line, even dwarfs ele water and arcane coz of the stealth.
Again I have no problem with SA minor 25 alone, the thing is when it’s combined with permastealth and the erroneous fact that this trait is triggered when you stack stealth duration as oppose to the description “Gain might for 15 seconds when you GO INTO stealth”. It’s quite fine for CnD since it really can’t be spammed and you only gain might when you regain stealth as it’s designed, but it’s just wrong when d/p can spam it while in stealth. Also I am not asking for a overhaul of SA line, but instead I am asking for either move this minor 25 to maybe DA or move the major 30. Having both burst damage (esp from d/p build) and survivability in the same trait line at 2 traits right next to each other is not balanced at all.
(edited by noobftw.9654)
alright guys, before bashing me, keep in mind my main is thief and I love the thief game play but this op trait line is ruining it.
I understand anet intention to give thief the best burst and mobility and everything is just busted once this trait line gets in picture.
Minor 25, Gain 2 stacks might for 15 seconds when you go into stealth.
Major 30, Regenerate health while in stealth.With cnd chaining or smoke screen+leap, you can easily get 10 stacks of might before you back stabbing. This completely breaks the deadly arts trait line. If I have 30 points to spend, if spent on SA, player will get spamable stealth, spamable condition removable if wanted, 1 free binding power, spamable healing and most importantly, comparing to DA, you are gaining 50 power too. Peeps used to still invest at least 10 in DA for mug so thief is really bursty, now when you turn mug from a burst skill to semi-burst+heal, that 10 points in DA isn’t really worth it.
With the currently trait lineup, 30 in SA is almost a must. It gives thief top condition removal, best escape option, top healing (survivability) on top of best burst and best mobility among all the classes. This really breaks it.
anet fix this pls.
Disclaimer: I am not asking for a nerfing of thief and I am not claiming thief is op. What I am asking for is anet looking into SA trait line and probably move 25 minor and/or 30 major to another trait line.
What a tortuous way to get might stacks. Just invest in signet burn build, hit all three with the right signet trait from crit strikes and add thrill of the crime and you always open up with 16 stacks of might and you haven’t had to go blipping around with stealth for 5 minutes beforehand.
to stack up 12 might it takes about 8 secs. peeps are more likely to use that after the opening when they are low on hp. I am not saying tieves being stealthy or having a reset button in pvp is wrong, when this reset button removes all your condition, resets your hp and bring back you with a load of mights which is basically impossible to be stripped (since you are permastealthed) is wrong.
Again, permastealth and minor 25 in SA shouldn’t be in the same trait line.
EIDT: and I am totally fine with signet power builds coz you give up a lot to get that 16 stack, but with SA builds you don’t give up nothing and gains condition removal/healing.
Let’s see other Classes 25 minor trait in their defense line:
Mesmer: 5% of toughness = condition damage
Engineer: 10% healing is given as power
Guardian: Gain might when blocking
Necro: 5% of toughness is given as power
Ranger: 5% extra damage when health >90%
Warrior: 5% of toughness is given as power
ele: Deal more damage when health is full.So as you can see, all of them offer extra damage, why should ours be different?
lol, any traits gives you 350+ power and 350+ condition damage while you are unseen and removes condition every 3 secs , regens 300 per sec? Minor 25 and permastealth shouldn’t be in the same trait line.
Just fyi, those stats conversion traits you listed gives you around 60-80 stats and most of them are just trash traits.
@noobftw, is it just me or did you contradict yourself throughout your post?
IMO shadow arts trait line is way op
I am not claiming thief is op.
If a trait line is OP, but the class isn’t OP, then it makes it irrelevant really to bring it out…
not asking for a nerfing of thief
probably move 25 minor and/or 30 major to another trait line.
That’s pretty much IS a Nerf…
Now, I don’t use that trait that stacks might on stealth, because I find the blind on stealth way more effective to keep me alive. As for healing in stealth, it is a 30 points trait, it should be at least effective otherwise it wont be worth 30 points. As for one condition removed every 3 seconds in stealth, this is actually good for survivability, but gaining two initiatives on stealth might help you burst more. So it ISN’T OP, you need to decide what to choose depending on your playstyle and preference.
READ carefully. I am not saying thief is op, im just saying SA line is op and it makes DA completely useless and now they even nerfed mug burst. And I am not saying this line should be taken away or whatever, I am just stating the fact that with minor 25 trait, this line is more bursty than DA and ANET should consider move minor 25 to a trait line that means burst dmg.
For peeps who still argues about SA is only survivability, fyi, with dp build, you can stack 6 might with one smoke field if you don’t screw it up, and another 6 after you gained 8 initiative in about 6 secs. You would be more bursty than a paper burst thief. With all the extra survivability and escape skills this line provides, it will be a nobrainer’s choice. Lets also not forget this line gives thief permastealth, best escape traits and top grade cleanse and healing. The healing from major 30 trait is probably only second to the ele water line & evasive arcane combined on par with guardian valor line and ranger WS line. I like all the other traits from SA but minor 25 shouldn’t belong here. Putting permastealth and minor 25 in the same trait line is a mistake. Minor 25 trait is being abused in pvp and wvw meta builds. The fact that you can stack up whole bunch of might in permastealth and without the need to worry about boon strip is op. This trait line is too good to be missed in any meta pvp, wvw or even dungeon builds.
(edited by noobftw.9654)
Spam 2 more thief
Wait til they nerf pets ranger
Faceroll more mesmer
Play something that takes skill guardiansIt’s all irrelevant. No matter what you play or how you play it, people will still talk crap. Can noobs use d/p? Absolutely. Do top players use it? Most definitely.
Never heard anyone complain about my Necro or my Warrior. Truth is:
- Rangers are overpowered
- Thieves are annoyingly easy to use, and annoyingly strong. They’re entire playstyle is based around spamming.
- Mesmers have 2 overpowered meta builds, despite having not much else
- Guardians take virtually no skill, they’re just facetanks.
There are reasons behind most of the complaints, if you bother to step off your pedestal and listen.
1. Ranger is only op in PVP and has the worst utilities for wvw or dungeon
That’s actually a completely false biased opinion, as I have seen numerous Rangers do extremely well in dungeons, and even very difficult fractals. Rangers also do significantly well in WvW, certainly better than Warriors or Necromancers.
Ranger can be op in wvw, but only when its small group fight. Warrior provides better team support in zerg fight and terror spec’ed necro is a beast in wvw.
In turns of dungeon, any class can do well in dungeon (meaning smooth run). But why do I need to bring a ranger when I can bring a else who can provide more dps or better team support? When you FARM dungeon so much, you just want to faceroll it in 5 -10 mins. For entry level dungeon such as cof p1, I would definitely go with a warrior or mezmer or even a zerker thief. For harder dungeons like 40+ fotm, you are either asking for dps, team support or reflection skills and ranger really lacks those and the pet is unlikely to provide the same dps as in pvp.
Builds do far more damage in PvE and WvW than in PvP. I’ve seen Rangers that can keep their pets alive longer than most players can keep themselves alive, not simply because of skill differences, either. I prefer Rangers over Warriors in my dungeon running teams. Pound per pound, Rangers are superior. I rarely ever use Thieves in anything (PvP, WvW, or PvE), as I generally despise the builds they attempt to pretend to use properly, very few Thieves earn my respect. Mesmers are useful, but I rarely see any worth bringing in for any PvE. Guardians prove very useful for support. Necromancers are extremely useful and nearly mandatory in some condition-heavy dungeons/fractals, plus Leeching tanks are pretty strong outside of PvP. Warriors are downright awful, the only reason people use them is because they are under the impression that DPS is the only thing that matters in PvE and “hunded bade r gud”
I LMAOed when I see you saying mesmers are not worth bring for any pve. Guess you don’t run cof much?
Lets just agree to disagree. its way offtopic.
30SA is only a must if you want defense/sustain in a fight.
Burst includes no SA whatsoever.
It’s not OP.
When you have easy 10 stack might from this line, yes, it gives you sustain, escape and better burst than DA.
Just check out the meta burst thief builds, it’s a must.
None one is running 25 30 0 0 15 meta burst build anymore in neither pvp nor wvw.
Spam 2 more thief
Wait til they nerf pets ranger
Faceroll more mesmer
Play something that takes skill guardiansIt’s all irrelevant. No matter what you play or how you play it, people will still talk crap. Can noobs use d/p? Absolutely. Do top players use it? Most definitely.
Never heard anyone complain about my Necro or my Warrior. Truth is:
- Rangers are overpowered
- Thieves are annoyingly easy to use, and annoyingly strong. They’re entire playstyle is based around spamming.
- Mesmers have 2 overpowered meta builds, despite having not much else
- Guardians take virtually no skill, they’re just facetanks.
There are reasons behind most of the complaints, if you bother to step off your pedestal and listen.
1. Ranger is only op in PVP and has the worst utilities for wvw or dungeon
That’s actually a completely false biased opinion, as I have seen numerous Rangers do extremely well in dungeons, and even very difficult fractals. Rangers also do significantly well in WvW, certainly better than Warriors or Necromancers.
Ranger can be op in wvw, but only when its small group fight. Warrior provides better team support in zerg fight and terror spec’ed necro is a beast in wvw.
In turns of dungeon, any class can do well in dungeon (meaning smooth run). But why do I need to bring a ranger when I can bring a else who can provide more dps or better team support? When you FARM dungeon so much, you just want to faceroll it in 5 -10 mins. For entry level dungeon such as cof p1, I would definitely go with a warrior or mezmer or even a zerker thief. For harder dungeons like 40+ fotm, you are either asking for dps, team support or reflection skills and ranger really lacks those and the pet is unlikely to provide the same dps as in pvp.
Spam 2 more thief
Wait til they nerf pets ranger
Faceroll more mesmer
Play something that takes skill guardiansIt’s all irrelevant. No matter what you play or how you play it, people will still talk crap. Can noobs use d/p? Absolutely. Do top players use it? Most definitely.
Never heard anyone complain about my Necro or my Warrior. Truth is:
- Rangers are overpowered
- Thieves are annoyingly easy to use, and annoyingly strong. They’re entire playstyle is based around spamming.
- Mesmers have 2 overpowered meta builds, despite having not much else
- Guardians take virtually no skill, they’re just facetanks.
There are reasons behind most of the complaints, if you bother to step off your pedestal and listen.
1. Ranger is only op in PVP small group fight and has the worst utilities for wvw or dungeon
alright guys, before bashing me, keep in mind my main is thief and I love the thief game play but this op trait line is ruining it.
I understand anet intention to give thief the best burst and mobility and everything is just busted once this trait line gets in picture.
Minor 25, Gain 2 stacks might for 15 seconds when you go into stealth.
Major 30, Regenerate health while in stealth.
With cnd chaining or smoke screen+leap, you can easily get 10 stacks of might before you back stabbing. This completely breaks the deadly arts trait line. If I have 30 points to spend, if spent on SA, player will get spamable stealth, spamable condition removable if wanted, 1 free binding power, spamable healing and most importantly, comparing to DA, you are gaining 50 power too. Peeps used to still invest at least 10 in DA for mug so thief is really bursty, now when you turn mug from a burst skill to semi-burst+heal, that 10 points in DA isn’t really worth it.
With the currently trait lineup, 30 in SA is almost a must. It gives thief top condition removal, best escape option, top healing (survivability) on top of best burst and best mobility among all the classes. This really breaks it.
anet fix this pls.
Disclaimer: I am not asking for a nerfing of thief and I am not claiming thief is op. What I am asking for is anet looking into SA trait line and probably move 25 minor and/or 30 major to another trait line.
EDIT: I am totally fine with the cleanse , permastealth , healing that comes from SA line and those traits make thief very fun to play when traited with SA. But putting permastealth and SA minor 25 trait together is just wrong, it dwarfs any other defensive trait lines of any professions. The fact that you can keep stacking might when you are still in stealth and stacking stealth time makes this trait provide more power than 30 points in DA.
(edited by noobftw.9654)
Dredge is actually pretty fast, most PuGs just dont know how to play it.
Get into button room, all team clears it quick, one goes with stealth/kit on the panel.
If bombs make 2 team bomb runs / if door have 3 stealth-destroy it or 3 shoot and 2 pull mobs off.
Pull trash in corner continuously while team spikes it.
Plow through the russian dredge’s healthbar in a minute.
Rush to last boss, if it lasts more than a couple minutes the team is terrible.Pretty fast considering it’s the most rewarding fractal (1g from just bags).
Maybe you haven’t done it in high levels say 40+. It’s just plain pointless. Any ppl with a sense of time would feel asleep doing it. Not that its challenging nor rewarding (trash bag?), it’s the textbook definition of grinding, in the most ugly form. Lets admit dredge are not pretty.
I usually run AC with my ranger, using short/long bow combo. During Path 1, when destroying the graveling burrows, it is still a huge pain to target said burrows. I was hoping that the recent update would fix this issue, getting nothing but “out of range” or “obstructed” messages, but alas.. it ain’t so :/
And no, I am not too far, and I do have a clear line of sight to my target, cause I do hit the gravelings, just not thew burrow.
Yes, I know I might have better luck with melee weapons, not the point though..
The point is, that while new content IS great, and changing up the dungeon a bit is also great.. I really wish ANET would fix known issues/bugs as well..On a sidenote, at the end of Path 3, Warmaster what’s-his-name failed to put up the bubble like 3-4 times, causing pretty much instant party wipes. The new boss mechanism is neat, but between the 2 NPCs they got about 1/2 a brain.. I hope their script gets fixed soon.
The tab target is the worst. It always prioritize innocent mobs far far away even out of sight than some kitten who is in my face melee me. Please get this fixed.