Guild Wars 2

Strifey.7215:

Kirbyprime.2645:

Fun fact, at 48, the part where you farm dredge trash and that Champion takes roughly 22 minutes if you do the pull trash to gate way.

That’s very inefficient, it takes us <10 minutes at 48.

We pull the boss + first pack to the back of the room, that way you can kill the boss quickly with no more adds other then the first pack.

Then after the boss is dead you just stand and melee cleave all the dredge that keep spawning.

Shhhh, that might be considered a exploit and will be fixed next patch before everything else.

Nikaido.3457:

noobftw.9654:

In grawl shaman , dps is even your enemy (elite and reflection cooldown).

Against the grawl shaman, killing the adds faster is very useful, as for reflection cooldown, you shouldn’t use reflection until the adds spawn which is like every 25% hp taken from the boss so those skills will never be on CD when you need them. The boss himself doesn’t have any attack that can’t be dodged and using any sort of projectile reflection or protection skill before the adds spawn is a waste.

You don’t need dps to kill elements fast. On my condition thief, dagger storm on bubble+adds then short bow 2 aoe, the elements dies 2-3hits. They have very low hp, condition get them pretty fast. while zerker will die 1-2 hits to them.
It’s hard to not used anti-projectile when people are downed and ressing. So it’s always a good idea to wait for cool down before the bubble hp.

So yes, dps is EVEN your enemy in grawl shaman.

hit me up in game.

I like the old AC too, not that I don’t like the new AC. After running daily AC full path for a week, the new AC is starting to be like the old one, predictable and boring.

But the old AC has some elements that I missed. Easy, fail-safe dungeon that’s always fun to take some new guildies so they get to know what exp dungeon is about before getting kicked in the face by harder dungeons and give up. For me the old boss has straght-forward mechanism and a lot of HP for you to mess with. The team gets some basic ress, dodge practice and experienced players get to try different play styles and combos. When my d/d elem has a new combo I want to try out or get familiar with , I can take a group of low level guidies there and have some fun there, with a comfort in mind that no one will hate this dungeon, no one will give up and the reward chest at the end is always guaranteed.

I have made many posts suggesting bring back the old AC in a different path while keeping the new one.

Chauntry.1635:

If you don’t have an issue with Dredge then you haven’t been doing FOTM for very long. My group running 48 got this the other day and I got a sick to my stomach feeling and literally just wanted to log off and do something else. No that it’s hard – it isn’t. It’s just an experience of mind numbing monotony. Seriously this has got to be one of the cheapest encounters in the game. Wave after mindless wave of dredge – I honestly wonder what the point of it is.

And then, you’re not even done after spending X amount of time getting there. We had 1 person leave group because he didn’t have an hour to spend on this. I was feeling the same way. In this case I had actually got off work early and was looking forward to knocking out my daily somewhat early and hoping I could do something else after completing.

I realize I have nobody to blame but myself because I know the length of time it requires to complete this one but I was hoping for a quick run. On top of that I of course didn’t get a skin.

Anet please do something about this instance. Remove the dredge after the door… just have it go bye bye. This is just too bloody long and really it’s starting to ruin my love for the game.

I know, at 40+ the rabisovich fight is just awful. Endless, pointless, boring waves of dredges, I always fall asleep there.

biggest issue of fotm, the loots are kitten. Judging by how many ppl are LFG fotm high level right now, its days are over.

yarpen.1364:

defensive gear does matter on fotm. dps does not matter because in hard parts it does not matter at all.
Where you really need high dps? On which fractal? You still need to kite mobs on dredge door event (and glassy zerk class just can’t do it at all). You kill dredge on champion faster? It does not matter they spawn with time, it still take ages. And zerk class will probably fail with melee on champion because of his normal mace attack for 8k on them…
You need dps on shaman fractal? For what? You need dodge there and reflect, sometimes you even need to stop dps to ress someone or to wait for CD on some skills and heals.

Other fotm are easy in any setup. It does not matter how fast I will kill ice fractal last boss. It’s afk boss great for salvaging items in my bags. Does high dps makes asura fractal easier? Maybe, but it still does not matter, it’s still doable with any setup.

We need to be ready for hardest parts, not for easiest ones. High dps is handy on dredge fractal but probably thief with stealth will make it way way more easier than some zerk warrior. I will choose mesmer over warrior on this fractal always, boon thievery + stripping + best reflect make mesmer just OP in this fractal.

Let’s face it. Most zerk warriors in fotm are useless. Sometimes high toughness class is usefull to get agro and kite mobs in many events. Sometimes CC is more important than raw damage. 99% of warriors on fotm use rifle or bow most of the time. Nobody will tell me that they have “great” dps with those weapons.

The op doesn’t know what hes talking about. Lets face it people, DPS is mostly bad in fotm except it saves some time in dredge final boss. zerker warrior is bad in fotm (let’s admit zerker warrior is awesome in cof p1 first). In grawl shaman , dps is even your enemy (elite and reflection cooldown).

Condition thief with 2.6k armor 22k hp can keep 25 stack bleeding, 1 poison on all the time while melee in the face of boss. Try to top that damage with a zerker thief that uses sb?

LordByron.8369:

noobftw.9654:

Winds.3087:

noobftw.9654:

Take a break kitten, do u even know what u talking about. Explain to me how does dps help u at grawl shaman, jade maw and many rooms at fractal such as bonfire at blizzard, dolphin/light at water, swamp runner, gredge door,and etc and etc.

Now go back to cof p1 quick run will u?

Thrash and bosses from 30 will kill player in full soldiers almost just as fast as they will kill player in full berserker. So what’s the point of running defense gear that won’t defend you and will prolong the fight? Longer you kill things in high fractals, more windows for charlie and foxtrot will open.

So wrong. I played 30 fotm daily for months on my thief and elem. I use d/d on both toons and melee most of the time unless boss/room mechanism forbids melee. There is no boss/trash can 1 hit me except iceman stomp at dredge, but it’s not a problem since the obvious animation.

Yeah i bet you had a couple of guardians with you……

I saw so many players carried to higher levels that still cannot grasp how fotm works..

I think just saying ascalon would prove how wrong you are (18736 dmg 1 hit LVL20 XD and i even evaded 1st rush not to mention boss XD).
Or talk about ice elementals spike during blizzard
Or ANY agony shot unless you have huge AR.

The best is actually on your D/D ele (i doubt you really play it in fotm) the funny 6way agony shot by opening boss at cliffside.

With D/D ele you will be hit during animations for sure….unless u change weapon.

I have at least other 3-4 in mind…..but lets not waste time……

LordByron.8369:

I think just saying ascalon would prove how wrong you are (18736 dmg 1 hit LVL20 XD and i even evaded 1st rush not to mention boss XD).

18736 dmg 1 hit still can’t kill my thief with 22k hp 2.6k armor. But shes not solder stats tho. And those bull charge by vet warriors are pretty easy to dodge. I don’t know how much damage the boss or vet warrior does at lvl 40, but I never stand still to let em hit me.

LordByron.8369:

With D/D ele you will be hit during animations for sure….unless u change weapon.

I have at least other 3-4 in mind…..but lets not waste time……

What d/d elem animation you are talking about? the only channeling skill d/d elem has is earth 5, and do you have to use it?

Yeah i bet you had a couple of guardians with you……

lol, I don’t care if there are guardians giving me regen or aegis. My thief is dodge 80% of the time (death blossom+vigor+trait) and elem can keep vigor on 100% time, and yes , she dodges a lot.

ok, your thread has a point. Guardian is op in fotm and warrior is op in COF p1, let’s keep it at that and stop making more points that might embarrass yourself.

It’s available only in FOTM drops atm, and the droprate is just kitten.
I have been grinding fotm for months, but only got 3 of 6.

If anet believes grinding is bad, please make it more available.

On topic, the PVE balance does need some work. Despite some wrong statements the op made in the thread, he actually has a point.

Winds.3087:

noobftw.9654:

Take a break kitten, do u even know what u talking about. Explain to me how does dps help u at grawl shaman, jade maw and many rooms at fractal such as bonfire at blizzard, dolphin/light at water, swamp runner, gredge door,and etc and etc.

Now go back to cof p1 quick run will u?

Thrash and bosses from 30 will kill player in full soldiers almost just as fast as they will kill player in full berserker. So what’s the point of running defense gear that won’t defend you and will prolong the fight? Longer you kill things in high fractals, more windows for charlie and foxtrot will open.

So wrong. I played 30 fotm daily for months on my thief and elem. I use d/d on both toons and melee most of the time unless boss/room mechanism forbids melee. There is no boss/trash can 1 hit me except iceman stomp at dredge, but it’s not a problem since the obvious animation.
The above statement (DPS is the king) is absolutely garbage to any ears who have done a serious numbers of fotm high level runs. I can testify that with months’ experience running high level fotm (till 40).
Like someone stated before, if there are any ‘king’ in fotm, it’s the anti-projectile (reflections wall, feedback, Mesmer focus 5,4, sanctuary, thief smoke screen).

LordByron.8369:

noobftw.9654:

LordByron.8369:

DeathPanel.8362:

It’s not really a matter of heavy armor but a learn to play issue.

Devs balance the game based on what each class CAN do, not what average people end up doing.

i doubt it.

DPS is king in fotm..

….

Wow, don’t want to read anything else u have to say after this line

If you did you would’ve learnt how to play higher level fotm….it seems you don t have a clue.

or
you can tell me what you know that goes against one of the few things high levels fotm players agree on since months?

you can easily know why u need dps at lvl 3X or 4X…..rtry that and suddenly you’ll get by yourself.

Take a break kitten, do u even know what u talking about. Explain to me how does dps help u at grawl shaman, jade maw and many rooms at fractal such as bonfire at blizzard, dolphin/light at water, swamp runner, gredge door,and etc and etc.

Now go back to cof p1 quick run will u?

LordByron.8369:

DeathPanel.8362:

It’s not really a matter of heavy armor but a learn to play issue.

Devs balance the game based on what each class CAN do, not what average people end up doing.

i doubt it.

DPS is king in fotm..

….

Wow, don’t want to read anything else u have to say after this line

RNG has droprate too. RNG is RNG no complaints there. But I never had it where nothing dropped in 10 runs.
Good for you guys since you all happy with the current effort reward ratio in FOTM. I’ve had it.

guys, the reason I said its nerfed coz I played it way before, from the very beginning. And gosh, that was some good time. Effort well spent. Almost 1 rare per chest guaranteed. But Anet just secretly nerfed it down a couple times. Now it’s seems like Anet doesn’t care if anyone still wanna do it or not. In fact, most of my fotm buddies either quit the game or not doing fotm anymore. And the quality of pugs are getting worse by the days.

RNG is RNG, but 10 runs nothing says a lot about the droprate. I am only farming cavalier armor, a few more toughness ain’t worth all the time and headache of pug in FOTM. guess imma quit fotm too.

10 runs in a row not getting anything. I run only 26+ and I am not getting even a ring, an exotic gear from fotm.
Anet wants to declare FOTM death?

One thing I missed about old ac is you can just get in with any lowbie and raid it however you want. It was stupid fight but In a fun way coz the boss has a lot of hp for you to mess with. Boring mechanism, yes. But tbh any boss fight gets boring after you figure it out and done it many times. The new ac fight is getting boring for me coz I run full path daily.
The thing I can’t figure out is why the revamp of a working dungeon while there are so many other bugs, broken events to fix. As I said before, how anet prioritizes fixes has always be beyond me.

laokoko.7403:

There isn’t even much difference between a down scaled level80 and a level35. You can just gather a group of level80 in masterwork using tier1 trait and it is the same thing.

I think what people trying to say is they can’t tolerate the high percent of failure rate in pug.

And like you said before, the dungeon isn’t even hard in organized group. So it’s just weird I need to organize a group for a dungeon which isn’t even hard. Yet I can’t even casually play it since it have a high chance of fail in pug.

That is what I’m trying to tell you before. If the dungeon is too hard for pug and too easy for organized group, who is it for?

I actually find the difficulty for AC ok myself but that’s probably because I play a guardian.

But like you said before, it isn’t even hard. Yet you need to do organized group only with experienced player.

I really missed the raiding day in other mmorpg. I also played other mmorpg which have 5 man dungeon that take month to finish in an organized group. I just think the dungeon in GW2 is too easy for me to put the effort to organize group for it. Yet I can’t play it casually doing pug. Which is what make it frustrating for me.

Actually there are some. Stats, gears, runes. Average level 35 players won’t even bother with runes and signals. Above all, missing skills and traits are gonna make a lot of differences.

Maestro.5376:

So, since people have been complaining incessantly about the new AC and how it completely punishes lvl 35s and how it’s completely undoable at that level now and blah blah blah blah, I figured I’d put these rumors to rest.

But since people want video evidence and I’m usually a solo player/my friends all alt-leveled to 80 (you guysssssss -_-) I’ll need YOUR help to do it.

So if you’re an experienced player and want to make a video with your level 35 alt running through AC, go ahead and send me a PM on the forums or an in-game mail.

EDIT: Apparently, we get bonus points if we do this with all Blue gear.

EDIT EDIT: Sorry, this is an NA run, forgot to Clarify.

Lol, all this to prove its doable at 35 all blue? I admire you op. don’t know any average players want to go through this.

I can solo ac p1. But still I don’t approve the new ac is well designed.

I find old ac good combo practise. Yes, I like the old ac in certain ways.

If you know how to do the new ac, you wouldn’t call it fun. Even it’s fun for you now, after you figure out how to do it and establish your strategy, it will become just the old ac with less boss hp.

Ok, I admit the new ac is actually easy and even soloable. Whoever find the new ac challenging you are doing it wrong.
However I still miss the old ac, well established boss fights, tons of boss hp to practice my combo.
Please bring back the old ac in a new path or new dungeon.

defi.4127:

Well sucks to be you I guess.

Old AC = large hp pools on bosses, but easy and boring fights.
New AC = reduced hp pools on bosses, but more challenging and interesting fights (may vary between bosses).

The new spider queen and boss is by no means more interesting, not even challenging either. I was able to do it with pugs. The were all dead and I never bother to ress. Actually I can’t ress anyone. You just must to focus on doing your own stuff and forget about others then you will find these bosses soloable

This new ac is very anti teamwork, except p2 trap and boss ofc. When I tried to be team player and ressing the downed I end up kill myself most of the time. If you forget about teamwork, it becomes very easy.

Jabiacas Horologium.4976:

I haven’t done it yet on a toon at 35, but have been in a group where we ranged 45-75. It was doable though tough to relearn the new mechanics, best I can say about paths one and 3 is any stability and condition removal support is very helpful, I have not been in path 2 yet. I think we can expect them to be “revamping” more dungeons, i wouldn’t be surprised if CoF comes next due to it’s popularity and ease.

Lol, I used d/d elem full cantrip build 3 stun breaker tons of condition removal and was eating dirt half the time.
Managed to do it with pugs still(p1). Trick is to forget about teamwork, ress and all that useless junk. Just rtl away, wait for stability cool down, rtl in when the boss is in fire circle, dump you combo on it, then rtl out. Rinse and repeat. Don’t bother to ress, don’t try any teamwork or you end up kill yourself. You only got 3 stun breaker vs a horde of knockdowns. You can pretty much solo it all the way. Its funny ppl find this fight challenging or interesting.
Same thing with the spider queen, itis actually much easier to solo her, doable even as a full berzerker elem, rtl ftw.
Horay, a solo dungeon finally

Simply tell me how does this dungeon pass QA?

Thanks op for the writeup.
A few more points.
On p2, the boss will destroy the trap sometimes. And the trap will lose charge if it’s untouched for a while.
The knockback from the trash is buffed too much. You can’t go melee any more unless you have endless stability. On my d/d elem, with cantrip build, I am kissing dirt half of the time.
The spider queen is buffed and her AOE attack does 10k damage in 2 secs.

All this is too much for a level 35 dungeon. AC p2 used to be like COF p1, in a way I can take along any new guildies and ran it easily. Now AC p2 is definitely off the list. I guess COF p1 is bound to be reworked too. All these changes don’t make sense to me. Changing working mechanisms and ignoring the bugs is really beyond me.

For everyone who welcomes this change, congratz to you. Now you can claim this dungeon and soon you can claim this game too.

Skady.5916:

noobftw.9654:

Folk.2093:

your doing it wrong; go in the room pull rab; kill his adds then solo him in a corner.

once he’s dead prapare for awesome survival mode as you plow through the dredge adds.

lol, tell me how we are doing it wrong? did I ever tell you what’s our strategy?

try to get to lvl 40 first and then defend a broken fractal

Folk described the actual and valid strat for lvl 48 Rabsovich. This is by far the fastest way of doing it (still long though, but loot is also good enough to make up for that)

Did I mention what’s our strategy in the op? What I wrote are there is pointless too many waves of adds on top of a long fractal. You just have to assume this kitten doing 40+ not knowing the strats and get carried all the way to 40+?

Folk.2093:

I just gave you the other high level strat people use in Fracs besides stacking and pulling the adds around the corner (yes you did give me your strat in the OP); which is insanely boring (which was your complaint). What you do with that info; well I could care less.

alright, pro. What we did is, we pull the adds to the corner and kill em first before last couple of waves and ran in to kill both the boss and adds. Now educate me what we did wrong to make the waves so boring long? And while you are at it, please teach us how we can make this insanely boring pulling dingy interesting?

Folk.2093:

your doing it wrong; go in the room pull rab; kill his adds then solo him in a corner.

once he’s dead prapare for awesome survival mode as you plow through the dredge adds.

lol, tell me how we are doing it wrong? did I ever tell you what’s our strategy?

try to get to lvl 40 first and then defend a broken fractal

Can someone enlighten me what exactly is the point of this boss (fractals)? At lvl 40+, the waves of the adds is ridiculously long , tedious and pointless. You have to keep repeating doing the same thing over and over again to clear the adds. We have to take turns to pull the adds coz it’s so boring and so long. Everything is on top of a already long enough fractal. I wouldn’t mind if the adds hit harder or the boss has harder mechanism for higher fractals. But increasing the lengh is the exact opposite of fun.

Ioflux.4369:

Sorcerer.3095:

IMO ban kicking unless somebody has been disconnected or AFK for more than 5min (or maybe shorter) . Kicking can be abused too easily if you just let players freely do it. If you have a bad player in your group you should rather communicate and try to fix problems that you have.

If you can’t kick in dungeons, you’ll have trolls thatll harass your party and wipe you repeatedly and you cant do anything about it.

Not true. You can
1 block him
2 leave and disband the group
3 create a new group

To me the kick is fine until it gets abused. No need to fix the kick itself but there need to be a way preventing abusing it,

Charge the initiator 50silver and voter 20silver.
For a deadly resolution rendering it free will definitely lead to abuse.

runeblade.7514:

noobftw.9654:

Bullfrog.1324:

I was in an AC group today that had 2 people want to switch characters at the boss. I was perfectly fine with that. One even waited too long to switch, and requested that we kite the boss until he got loaded in. Again, I was perfectly fine with that. But this is AC we’re talking about.

The final bosses in CoF (path 1 and 2) pretty much require 5 players. In path 1, if you’re not a strong DPS group, losing a player can significantly lengthen the battle. Same with path 2, but due to the mechanics rather than DPS limitations.

COF p1 boss needs 5 players?

On a boss that is permanently regenerating for 25 stacks? You do the math.

If you having problem downing the p1 boss in 2 mins 4 manning, you are at high risk being kicked in recent speedy run clout. I wouldn’t do that tho, but some good portion of the community just think they make the rules in pug run and kicking is the only way to resolve any differences and incompetences.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Noid.2871:

Silence doesn’t constitute agreement.

True. My first guess would be not paying attention, followed by afk, followed by apathy.

So how long am I supposed to wait? Is a covenant required? I supposed I need to bring my lawyer?
Simply ask before kicking. Is it too much to ask for?If a warning was given I would be cool and switch back to my other toon. Boss down faster, I got what I worked for and no drama created. Win win situation and all it needs is some minimal english.

Bullfrog.1324:

I was in an AC group today that had 2 people want to switch characters at the boss. I was perfectly fine with that. One even waited too long to switch, and requested that we kite the boss until he got loaded in. Again, I was perfectly fine with that. But this is AC we’re talking about.

The final bosses in CoF (path 1 and 2) pretty much require 5 players. In path 1, if you’re not a strong DPS group, losing a player can significantly lengthen the battle. Same with path 2, but due to the mechanics rather than DPS limitations.

COF p1 boss needs 5 players?

please make cavalier set armors vendor available, either that or increase the RNG rate.
Endless grinding is no fun.

Mr eX.3420:

I think Personal Reward Level itself should be removed from the game. You should be rewarded based on beating the content, not based on how many times you’ve played it previously.

That or account bound the level. I would like to experience fractals with my 3 fully geared alts but the reward and effort ratio doesn’t make me wanna level em all to lvl 30+.

Shuguard.7125:

did you ask if you could switch to your alt and get a confirmation that everyone was okay with it? or did you just say I’m going to switch?

The topic of the GW2LFG is: LF4M COF p1
What I said in the beginning: I will be switching to my alt when boss is low hp hope it’s fine.
The response I got was silence.
There were no mentioning of speed run nor farming in chat during the entire run, not that the run was not speedy enough already.
I was not kicked before I made the effort but after most of the work was done.
There was no chat, whisper or anything before the kick.
I will be cool if kicked at the beginning or asked to switch back to lvl 80 or kicked.

Was doing a cof p1 run today. The topic in GW2LFG was nothing remotely close to speed run or farming run. The makeup of the group was 1 elem 1 necro and 2 mesmer, nothing remotely resembles a speed run. At the beginning of the run I said I will be switching to my alt when boss was low hp. Was doing most of the dps and tanking on my elem while the other elem, the necro and 1 of the mesmers kept dying. Anyways, it was pretty fast took us 5-10 mins getting to the boss. So I switched to my low level alt when the final boss at 40% hp and only to found I got kicked before the experience and chest. One of the mesmer told me the group leader initiated the kick.
What the kitten is wrong with COF p1 run nowadays? And more importantly what’s wrong with the people running it? Is there anyway Anet can do to prevent this bs happening? Maybe charging people 1g when initiating a kick? And most importantly shield player who is (1. online 2. solid presence in the aggro table, 3. did top damage in the party) from being kicked. not hard but pretty effective isn’t it?
comments as you think fit.

gman.2356:

Am I the only one who isn’t a fan of this? It seems like all the dungeon runs I do now have people who want to run past huge packs of mobs to rush to the next part. Only thing is most of the time this never works and we end up spending more time/money than it’s worth. I’m kind of hoping they fix this by making mobs have an infinite or unbreakable “leash” forcing you to fight your way through. But then again….that’s just my opinion. How do others feel?

second this. To make things even better, let Anet release a patch that blocks player from using WP / portal going to next map before s/he clear all mobs in current one. As OP said, these mobs are placed there for a reason, and we must KILL EVERYTHING.

I haven’t been running FOTM almost for a month, for obvious reasons, it’s too long, and the reward is kidding. I am lvl 31 and familiar with all mechanisms of FOTM, but I don’t run FOTM any more unless guidies need help.
So today some gudies needed help, and we got notorious grawl shaman at lvl 10. Don’t get me wrong, I have done it many times at lvl 30 before and I know the trade. still IMO, it’s the worst designed boss in game. This boss is too complicated and there is way too many places you can make mistakes. And the class balance is a joke here.
Make no mistake, we are not taking him lightly even it’s only level 10, I am well versed at level 30 and most of the party members have run it many times before, we spent almost 30 min running him naked 1 by 1 so guidies can practice dodging his agony attack. We only made real attempt after guidies can dodge him at least 2 out of 3 times easily. Everything is in place and to sweeten up the deal, we have a Mesmer (reflection) and a thief (smoke screen), no guardian tho.
Still, we wiped many times. Dunno if its bugged or something, the burning damage in this boss is out of proportion. If anyone died near lava, it’s a wipe for the team coz there is no way you can ress. The burning damage offsets the combined healing from ress of all teammates. After tiring one hour’s fight, we got him finally, but there is no joy of success. We are only lucky since we were running with all guidie group, pugs would probably disband after 2-3 attempts.
Really? anet, you really have bump up the difficulty on a dungeon which is already hard and boring and long? Srsly, what’s wrong with the PM that prioritize stuff? And more importantly does the PM actually play the game? It looks to me, every time the PM tries to invent something or fix something in dungeon, s/he ended up making it worse. I don’t know the other fotm runner, I personally won’t pug any more and I don’t want to run high level either. The mechanism is old and boring, the fight is long, it’s like rolling a dice hoping you won’t get grawl shaman, and the reward is a joke. I got all ascend gears I need even for my alts, why do I need to run it? why do I need to get higher level? by using ress orb? lol? what’s the f’king point? And now you want to bring in inexperience pugs and make the whole thing more risky? no kitten way I am going to run it any more.
RIP FOTM.

TimHag.3429:

Please, for the sake of good dungeon runs, do something against the speed runs, in which only the bosses are killed. I frequently find groups (pugs) who call me a noob because i start fighting the mobs between the fights instead of running through them to the next boss. this mostly is the case in CoF path 1, where the only mobs groups defeat are the bosses.

Please change dungeons to make this behaviour impossible. Dungeons are fun and some pulls are a bit challenging for pugs, but by running past all it, it’s fun for nobody.

Do you kill all the mobs in maps to get from point A to pint B?
so do I.

Orion the Cursed.1206:

I dont do fractals(corrected) (i hate grinding) but you are saying the problem is with the boss, not just the class, correct?

What i’m suggesting is never have a 5 man group of the same class because most skills dont stack well.

As far as personal experience, (barring inexperienced allies) i feel that a balanced party can do better (clear faster with less deaths).

My suggestion is instead of saying Guardian is the best, we discuss what builds to carry that are more effective. I never said other classes are better than guardians, i said “its just guardians are more inclined to be either cooperative or tanky which is always good in cooperative situations.” in my first post.

Again you may have a point that certain bosses force players to “tank” or DPS, and that might be bad design on their part. We cant be sure unless we run more experiments. Dont forget recently there was a post that melee is useless, which contradicts what you are saying now.

It may even be because i lack experience as you said or i’m just like different builds.

“Your statement that having more than one guardian being inefficient is excuse me, BS.” This is my experience because:

1. burning doesn’t stack
2. Most single guardians can maintain protection/regen 80% percent of the time. Only might is stackable
3. Multiple valor spaming, because they dont stack.

In a similar situation, Warriors cant stack shouts and warbanners. Inefficient means wasted resources. Not undoable.

I’m sorry if i offended you.

Edit: as far as blocking projectiles, i think guardian and mesmers have the best options. Besides that every class can block/reflect projectiles. The problem is most people dont bring those skills.

None taken. Just felt a little trolled. I am all for class equality, but the reality is quite far from that, not even close. Again the problem is not tank or dps, Anet tried to eliminate the idea of tank class or dps class, any class can be tank or dps, some might be easier to do a certain role but the other role is not entirely impossible. The thing that annoys me the most is too many dungeons are having projectile blocker or reflections as choke point, while the availability and quality of such provision is incredibly skewed towards certain class, while some other classes only have self blocking, or an inferior version such as smoke screen which is shorter, lower and only last 7 sec vs 10 sec of refection wall, on top of that, reflection wall also reflects and it’s only one of Guardian’s blockers while smoke screen is all thief has. Aren’t they both utility skills that takes up 1 slot? Why is one yielding significantly more benefits than the other version. If anet wants to provide blocking/reflection as one of the team support mechanism only guardian has access to on top of other team supports guardian already has, then please don’t design a dungeon having blocking/reflection as the only choking point. It totally ruins the effort to bring class equality into mmorpg.
The current situation is 5 guardian group beats any other group hybrid or not. If you want to argue with that, give me a valid build and strategy that runs grawl shaman as easy as 5 guardian with 1 ranger, 1 necro, 1 warrior, 1 eng and 1 whatever.
btw, just out of curiosity, how did you get 8000+ dungeon tokens without running dungeon?
A correction to your statement regarding burning doesn’t stack. It does, but it stacks in time which is arguable better than stack in intensity for dungeons since 1. so far afaik no boss cleanses, 2. No burning is wasted, while the 26th stack of bleed, chaos, invul wasted.

Orion the Cursed.1206:

I dont understand. Are you saying i die in dungeons? I guess i should rephrase. My mistake.

“Yesterday i was using my necro and an greatsword guardian (party member aka another player) kept hiding/dying (forcing me to rez her) making my focus on DPS redundant. And i was lvl 78 yesterday and she was 80. (Today i’m 80).”

I have 8000+ dungeon tokes tho. 4 full sets of exotic wep and armor.

I’m sorry, but im trying to be helpful and constructive but you seem more interested in venting your frustrations. If so sorry for wasting your time.

I guess I can try to make some sense to you. I am not sure if you run FOTM, let me use grawl shaman as an example. The boss does quite a lot of projectile with agony, you can dodge it for sure, but you only have so much energy, team definitely calls for aoe projectile blockers. We are fine with that. However, apart from the boss, the adds also does lots of projectiles with immobilize attached, which pretty much can 1 hit anyone at lvl 35+. And more projectile blocker is called for here. Is it a good design this boss does mostly projectiles? (with some aoe fire circle which is no threat) On top of that, if your projectile blocker reflects, it’s gonna help break the bubble in secs. With the mechanism explained, give me an optimized build for a 5 warrior group that can run this boss as easy as a 5 guardian group.
It seems to me you kept telling me there is different builds for each class like i am not aware of. But the thing is the mechanism of some bosses are really not balanced. It’s quite laughable if you claim an optimized build will close the gap between guardian and other classes in dungeons.
If you still think i am venting my own frustration, you can try to LFM with 4 guardian or 4 elem/thief/ranger in you group , and tell me how easy it is to find a 5th for a 4 elem group. Until then, please don’t waste time convincing me the average community opinion is overlooking the possibility of an ‘optimized’ build for each class. Your statement that having more than one guardian being inefficient is excuse me, BS. It really makes me wonder if we are playing the same game.

Orion the Cursed.1206:

i have a engineer[main](toolkit)80, mesmer(shatter)80, Guardian(shout+valor)80, necro(condition+well)80, thief(scout)32, & warrior(sniper)21. I use my guardian and necro to run dungeons.

Im not talking about good builds. Im talking about optimized builds. You refuse to accept that theres more than 1 build for each class. And that builds can be made for specific duties. In your case (an example) carrying a pistol/poison focused thief in a party that cant poison against a boss that can heal or regen will be more valuable than a guardian. If you “refuse to adapt” and stick with your dagger, then the problem is you.

5 Guardians cant stack valor, burning, protection, etc… Try a difficult dungeon and you will understand.

Yesterday i was using my necro and an greatsword guardian kept hiding/dying (forcing me to rez her) making my focus on DPS redundant. And i was lvl 78 yesterday and she was 80. (Today i’m 80).

Congrats on reaching lvl 80. However if you keep dying in dungeon, that means you still got a lot to learn about your profession, says someone who got 5000+ dungeon token besides 3000+ fotm tokens. Maybe you should reevaluate your statement when you done more works with your lvl 80 toons? Which difficult dungeon you would suggest me to play, lvl 50 fotm?

Orion the Cursed.1206:

Not really a class issue imo. The problem is that some builds are not optimized for dungeons (yet players still bring them/refuse to adapt). Each class has a few options for ‘cooperative builds’, its just guardians are more inclined to be either cooperative or tanky which is always good in cooperative situations. For example minion necros are very useless in dungeons because most bosses do AoE, drain life necros tend to get 1 shot a lot, however Well or condition necros provide very good suport. As far as guardians go, having more than 1 is inefficient anyways.

I have guardian, thief, mesmer, elem. I have no problem playing any dungeon with 4 other guardians all in zerker build. While in my thief or elem, I will have headache running any dungeon if I see more than 2 of my classes. Sometime its not about skill or build anymore, it’s about how many blocking or reflection you can bring to the team. No matter how good your build is, or how well you dodge or whatever, a class with zero such skill or with an inferior version of such skill i.e. smoke screen, is always gonna be unpopular. Have you ever tried doing dungeon with more than 1 guardians? It’s beyond awesome. Maybe we should rephrase your statement to, some classes are not optimized to do dungeons (yet players still bring them/refuse to adapt).

Just my 2 cents, the importance of reflection and blocking skills is really overdone in some dungeons, for instance grawl shaman. As a result, some professions like guardian is really essential in some high level dungeons and other professions that doesn’t provide good aoe blocking and reflection can find it really frustrating no matter how they play it and what their build is.

Is this really intended? Coz it gets really annoying in some high lvl fotm. Anet removed tank, healer and dps trinity and now what’s in its place? Guardian> the trinity?

Pinch.4273:

noobftw.9654:

Player with lower health will outlast high health player at agony check if they both heal the same. Does it make any sense in any mmo game? And defense is of course ignored.

The fact that agony is percentage based is not a problem, as the alternatives are worse. Agony itself is not a bad mechanic, considering how easy it is to avoid almost everything in this game with kiting / projectile blocks / dodge button, and how easy it is to mitigate damage with weakness / protection. Agony resist, however, is not a particularly exciting mechanic.

As for making sense, it’s familiar to Guild Wars players. 55 HP monks (when normal health was 500-600) were the best tanks for a long time, until Shadow Form Assassins started popping up.

Not a lot of players here started with gw1. So how about some common sense that applies to a broader audience?
HP means hit point. More HP means me can has more hits. But in GW2, it means the opposite. How about this, DPS means damage per second. Now let’s invent a new boss in GW2 that it takes longer to kill when you have more DPS?

Ursan.7846:

noobftw.9654:

Ursan.7846:

noobftw.9654:

There should be plenty of easy and quick ways to fix it.

You know this, how?

“As long as there is a way for you to get back in, it ain’t that big of an issue:”

DC is not that big issue in other dungeons, no?

So they already have a working solution, no?

So if they copy&paste that solution to FOTM, we happy, no?

Now instead of making us happy, they facepalm us in dec 3rd path, no?

How do you know they implemented fractals the same way they implemented dungeons?

I can say pretty confidently that they didn’t. The basic structure is completely different and even a player (like you) can see that. In a dungeon, a party of players enter an instanced dungeon from the open world. In a FotM, a party of players enter an instanced lab. And then are transported to another instance (fractals themselves).

Completely different structures. Obviously I don’t know what the exact problem is, but I can say with lots of confidence that whatever worked for the dungeons, won’t work for the fractals.

There might be some difference indeed. But they are both dungeons. If the one who entered FOTM first leaves the party, the whole party gets kicked, just like any other dungeon. FOTM must be derived from existing dungeons with some features turned off. It doesn’t make sense to create a whole new dungeon mechanism when you already have one.
I am not saying it can fixed in seconds. But, hey, it’s been good two weeks. And there is still no solution, while in the meantime two patches in a row rolled out with some major makeover of cliffside? So again, the problem here is how they prioritize fixes. And how an average player would defend anet on this matter is beyond me.