Guild Wars 2

haviz.1340:

Everytime I say that obal is wrong in his guides (that for some reason they think is an insult) I got a reply which defends obal and tries to discredit me.

The only things you have said is there is a lot of room for improvement and I gave false information. I’m not sure how anyone can discredit statements like that. It’s not constructive or helpful and doesn’t sound well. If you pointed something out specifically like Anubarak did where I can recheck and fix what I post then that would be helpful and more than welcome. I was surprised to see that the ranger skills seemed to be working since I didn’t think they would but like I said my team wakittenting them when I told them not to so I couldn’t tell. I went back and rechecked it and fix the op after Anubarak’s post.

You also rip on us a lot for using guardians and rip on everyone for exploiting yet you seem to be keen on all of them and do fractal levels that can only be gotten to from exploiting. Your posts come off quite condescending and I felt like having some fun and testing your character.

swiftpaw.6397:

obal.3218:

haviz.1340:

obal.3218:

What Haviz said is a false statement. Since smite works, I figured the 2 ranger ones I used would but they don’t. You can check the wiki http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Volcanic_Fractal

“Also, saving the “multiple shot” skills for these occasions is recommended. Note that not all multi-hit skills tick the shield multiple times; for instance, the Guardian’s Smite skill ticks the shield extremely rapidly, but the Engineer’s grenades only tick once per volley."

If you speak from experience, you should really spend more time in fractals. Watch this simple clip. Smite not only doesn’t remove more than 1 stack, it doesn’t even remove more than 0. Enjoy.

Player Character.9467:

-_- we know, you also can’t condition a block

You can with necro or warrior with signet of might.

I actually knew that smite didn’t work. I checked the wiki hoping it would be wrong to really sell it there. I was hoping to draw out the real haviz to get a passive aggressive response instead of the usually vague insulting ones that you can explain that you don’t mean anything by. I enjoyed the edited and deleted comments as well before the final. It must be lonely up on that pedestal. GGs

Ooooo lordy, I can tell that the next couple comments in this thread are gonna be golden.

Another edit!

haviz.1340:

obal.3218:

What Haviz said is a false statement. Since smite works, I figured the 2 ranger ones I used would but they don’t. You can check the wiki http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Volcanic_Fractal

“Also, saving the “multiple shot” skills for these occasions is recommended. Note that not all multi-hit skills tick the shield multiple times; for instance, the Guardian’s Smite skill ticks the shield extremely rapidly, but the Engineer’s grenades only tick once per volley."

If you speak from experience, you should really spend more time in fractals. Watch this simple clip. Smite not only doesn’t remove more than 1 stack, it doesn’t even remove more than 0. I heard you were a good player.

Player Character.9467:

-_- we know, you also can’t condition a block

You can with necro or warrior with signet of might.

haviz.1340:

obal.3218:

What Haviz said is a false statement. Since smite works, I figured the 2 ranger ones I used would but they don’t. You can check the wiki http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Volcanic_Fractal

“Also, saving the “multiple shot” skills for these occasions is recommended. Note that not all multi-hit skills tick the shield multiple times; for instance, the Guardian’s Smite skill ticks the shield extremely rapidly, but the Engineer’s grenades only tick once per volley."

If you speak from experience, you should really spend more time in fractals. Watch this simple clip. Smite not only doesn’t remove more than 1 stack, it doesn’t even remove more than 0. Enjoy.

Player Character.9467:

-_- we know, you also can’t condition a block

You can with necro or warrior with signet of might.

I actually knew that smite didn’t work. I checked the wiki hoping it would be wrong to really sell it there. I was hoping to draw out the real haviz to get a passive aggressive response instead of the usually vague insulting ones that you can explain that you don’t mean anything by. I enjoyed the edited and deleted comments as well before the final. It must be lonely up on that pedestal. GGs

SkyChef.5432:

Here are 2 contradictory statements:

“ Haviz..
That’s a false statement because every skill removes just one stack, no matter how many times it hits. ”
and
“obal…
Broadicea.8294:
I always thought Smite was doing multiple shield ticks to the shield. Live and learn!
Smite works.”

So please explain to this blonde. Which one is correct? Isn’t smite a skill?

What Haviz said is a false statement. Since smite works, I figured the 2 ranger ones I used would but they don’t. You can check the wiki http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Volcanic_Fractal

“Also, saving the “multiple shot” skills for these occasions is recommended. Note that not all multi-hit skills tick the shield multiple times; for instance, the Guardian’s Smite skill ticks the shield extremely rapidly, but the Engineer’s grenades only tick once per volley."

Broadicea.8294:

I always thought Smite was doing multiple shield ticks to the shield. Live and learn!

Smite works.

For dungeons they are fine. They do good dps if you use a sword and provide the group with 12% more damage with spotter and frost spirit. If you stick with Ranger use the sword right away and try to get used to it. If you can’t deal with the sword then you won’t be contributing as much as other classes in dungeons and mine as well make a class that will contribute a lot with much less effort like a warrior. I would check this out if you want to do dungeons as a Ranger http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/84268-the-perfect-dps-ranger-guide-for-real/

Fractals is a bit different. It’s more punishing and harder to contribute the most because of that and the mechanics of the sword and your pet. You can read up on that more if you want https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Ranger-in-Fractals-48

They seem awful in dungeons given the way pugs play them with bows and bears but they aren’t bad if played correctly. It just takes a lot of effort and skill to contribute the same as a warrior auto attacking with an axe or an ele auto attacking with a lightning hammer. The sword and pet mechanics/survival are in need of a fix and will probably frustrate you or give you a laugh at times.

Anubarak.3012:

obal.3218:

Imbued shaman
You can entangle the boss and pretty much solo the bubble off with warhorn 4 and long bow 2.

Every skill in the game just remove one stack of the shield… are you sure about this information?

I told the others in the group to not go for it and it was going down so it seemed like it was working. I guess they didn’t listen . I tried it again and it doesn’t. I updated the OP.

I updated my conclusion to reflect what else they bring besides dps. Their utility value was a lot better than what I expected.

It’s not so bad if you have a guardian with a traited hallowed ground and stand your ground or you can just bring stability skills for yourself. It doesn’t need a nerf.

loseridoit.2756:

tl:dr my ranger is viable in high level fract but i need 2 guards

sorry, all classes are viable when there are two guards in party

It was a test to see if a Ranger would slow down a run in an optimal group.

Chopps.5047:

New rangers let their pets die a lot. You should play with me obal, and use my high level fotm build.

The pets die mostly at bosses. I just can’t see anyone babysitting them while in melee range of bosses that one shot you if they hit you. A fix is really needed for pets.

I saw your build but I like Brazil’s better since it maximizes DPS which is better suited for organized groups at 40+, especially if you melee everything. If you melee for 40s you don’t really need a range set for your secondary (except for mossman). It’s best to los and stick it out and rally off of good dps than fall back so sword/warhorn and sword/x seems best for trash mobs. The only thing I can see needing the energy regen for is imbued shaman but food would be a better option since you have 3 evade skills with sword/dagger. Your setup would probably be better for pugging though.

I like the dagger offhand for an extra evade for the bosses. Axe just seems really weak and not worthwhile unless you pug and have to fall back so I stick to longbow for ranging since I only range if sword isn’t an option. I guess I could give torch a shot for the trash since I was swapping to axe for it. It looks like a great choice if an ele is in the group. It’s best to have at least 1 guardian in the group and one of them should be running a hammer so the protection spirit shouldn’t be needed if you have one.

swiftpaw.6397:

Pet dead, pet dead, pet dead, pet dead…

They really need to do something about that -.-

Indeed. I was curious to see if it was the case after seeing it not die from Alpha’s AoE but they just died all the time here like I thought. Always bet against fractals I guess.

Cliffside

Archdiviner
Sword seems like it’s not an option to use here given how fast and frequent the attacks are. You pretty much get 1 shotted with everything. Maybe someone mastered the sword well enough to do this and I would like to see it. It seems too miserable to really try again. The pets die quickly too. It sucks to be a Ranger for this fight.

Chest Seal
Sword isn’t an option here since it will root you in the lava. The pets die right away. You mine as well grab a warrior’s banner since it sucks to be a ranger here.

Arm Seals
Healing spring is quite amazing here to put down at the los spot to get rid of vulnerability. Warhorn will provide swiftness to people running the hammer which is also nice. The pet will wander off if the the targeted chanter you don’t want to kill is in the hallway so it is pretty useless here and will be set to passive.

Final Seals
Sword isn’t an option and pets die right away again.

Ascalon

I didn’t get it but I’d imagine it would go the same as the dredge.

Underwater

Who cares

Snowblind

Same as underwater

Conclusion:
Rangers are fine to take for fractals and won’t slow the run down much or at all if they are played well. The DPS was pretty good even with dead pets though if sword was viable for the fight and for dredge end bosses. Aside from DPS they bring a 12% damage buff to the group with spotter and frost spirit that stacks with what other professions can bring, provide a lot of vulnerability at the start of the fight and throughout for the stuff you need to range, they provide a decent amount of fury with warhorn 5, they can give protection to the group if you don’t have a hammer guardian, they have some good cc skills but not for general fighting, and the healing spring can be helpful for los spots or if everyone melees bosses.

The problem is that it takes a lot of effort and skill to contribute the most as a Ranger. Another problem is sword is the best by far but not a viable option for many parts and GS seems not worth it at all and has dodging issues also. Pets are pretty much trash for most of the bosses since they instantly die. If they ever fix the sword and pet mechanics and survival then this class would really shine. Until then I’d rather take an ele or another war for fractals though I’d be fine with having a good Ranger in the group and can see their worth. The other dungeons are a bit more forgiving so it would be a better fit there.

I can see why this class is so poorly played though I don’t get the whole 2 bear thing. It really is a hard class to play. I did enjoy playing it because of that and it was a change of pace. Hopefully more people will start using a sword and zerker gear and drop the tanky 2 bow 2 bear setup that I’ve seen 90%+ of pug rangers use (seen 2 use a melee weapon since launch). I used Brazil’s setup and it was quite good http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/84268-the-perfect-dps-ranger-guide-for-real/

ANET – fix sword and pet mechanics please

I was still skeptical as well as other seem to still be about how well Rangers can do at 48 and no one cared to show it so I gave it a real shot. They are actually pretty good but have their flaws.

The videos aren’t perfect and are just normal runs so there are some downs and such. They are all around the same times as the ones I had for my cleaner runs for my guardian guide using 2g/2w/1 ele/mes or extra guard/war. I used 2g/2w/1r for the ones posted below instead. I just don’t enjoy fractals enough anymore to get cleaner runs or more but these are plenty good enough.

Swamp

Mossman 3:20 – http://youtu.be/cwjn2lFO_9E

Not too much diff than a warrior except a little bit less armor. Sword/Dagger is pretty nice with 3 evades and good dps. I didn’t have a bow for the video since I was hoping he wouldn’t transform but I would use warhorn before the fight and swapping it out for longbow if I did it again.

Bloomhunger 1:18 – http://youtu.be/8GirF3psJMU

Easy fight if you can stay behind him which is difficult with a sword. The 3 evades from the sword/dagger is helpful though. The pets die right away the first couple times I killed it but managed to stay alive mostly on the video run which seemed like a fluke.

Uncategorized

Harpies
Sword can make you fly off after you kill one which is pretty lame. Offhand axe comes in handy

Champ room
You can’t use sword against the shaman. Sword roots you in front of wall of reflection which gets you killed. It sucks to be a ranger in this room.

Old Tom 0:42 – http://youtu.be/NLT2MVmtgVQ
You can’t use sword against old tom if you using the tome stacking method since it will root you in front of the guardian. Rotating longbow burst skills and shortbow auto isn’t too bad though and we still got it done. Pets die fast.

Raving Asura 1:12 – http://youtu.be/2TnAlbhFqbA
Sword can be a pain if a golem is on or a bit in front of a wall since it roots you in front of the wall or you push it front since it attacks so fast. Axe can come in handy to pull them.

Dredge

Throughout the dungeon
Pets were a pain since they wander off from the los spot. Other than that they seemed fine. We were able to take stuff down fast and rally just fine.

Dredge Powersuit 2:21 – http://youtu.be/h1R9Anl7h1g

Well the ranger actually really shined here except at the end where I died like a noob. I usually get around 3min with a clean run but with a Ranger it was definitely faster. Muddy terrain was pretty nice too. The pets pretty much instantly died and were useless.

Grawl

Guards
Pet wandered from los spot which was annoying but the rest was fine.

Break the bubble
Great for running the rocks. They can do decent damage from range in between and use point blank shot or muddy terrain to help keep them back.

Champ shaman
We did it in about 1:15-1:30 I think which is faster than usually even with me and 2 bows and ranged pets. I’m not sure if its since my group actually max melee ranged the whole time and didn’t get hit. It might be that I don’t know but I deleted the video by accident. Still though you can’t use sword since it roots you and you will make your group get hit with his melee attack. You are forced to use ranged pets for the same reason as well.

Imbued shaman
You can entangle the boss to root it. It seemed pretty good to have a ranger to deal with this and while the others hit it a few times then get rid of the elementals faster. It didn’t seem like you can deal with the elementals as well as the other classes though. The pets are cannon fodder and dead the 90%+ of the fight.

Here is a fairly quick kill (not perfect but nice anyways) of bloomy brought to you by

Lupi Stomped on My PUG [LFG]
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Arah-Vets-grouping-together-to-do-Arah-Runs/page/8#post2357331

Guardian – http://youtu.be/XiDgdf0G9cU
Mesmer – http://youtu.be/ps9PE5GUwA8

Tips
1 – Stay behind Bloomhunger to avoid the AoE that gets no red circles
2 – Bring some reflects
3 – Put banners in range
4 – Bring a blonde

I don’t do wvw so I’m not sure. There are probably better builds out there better suited for wvw.

haviz.1340:

obal.3218:

He was in a red circle as was I. I used sword 3 to evade it and he dodged to evade it. The guardian reflects are about as good as they are at lupi phase 2 aoe as they are for bloomhunger aoe so you still need to dodge them. The reflects are useful for his poison attack and ground pound though and are what make the fight easy as long as you stay behind him and dodge red circles.

Weren’t you saying that if you stay behind him you wouldn’t have to dodge his agony?

Weth said it was annoying since he doesn’t even see the circles and that happens when you are in front of him. I said if you stay behind him it’s not an issue. The red circles will appear all the time if your behind him and will give you a chance to dodge. I said that is the only thing you really need to dodge if you can keep up reflects for the other attacks which makes the fight easy. Give it a shot.

haviz.1340:

obal.3218:

You can’t tank it at 48. I don’t think there are more either but I don’t do below 48. I’ve done the fight a lot and never get hit like that if I stay behind it. You can see what happened to people in front of it and me behind it and the damage it does at 48 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GirF3psJMU

Then why did you and the norn guardian dodge at 0:13?

He was in a red circle as was I. I used sword 3 to evade it and he dodged to evade it. The guardian reflects are about as good as they are at lupi phase 2 aoe as they are for bloomhunger aoe so you still need to dodge them. The reflects are useful for his poison attack and ground pound though and are what make the fight easy as long as you stay behind him and dodge red circles.

I use squash soup on the dps build and omnomberry ghosts or squash soup for anchor.

Wethospu.6437:

obal.3218:

Wethospu.6437:

2 Guardians probably help with that. Anyways is there a reason why your Warriors put banners out of range?

You don’t really have to dodge anything other than the aoe if you have 2 guards chaining wall/shield well so yeah it helps. I usually just waste my dodges when I play guard to get behind it since I don’t need them for much other than the aoe. I’m not sure why they put the banners that far out. Blame it on the Ranger.

My brain was still partially sleeping so my post probably didn’t make much sense.

I’m just wondering would you even notice getting hit with that much Aegis if there’s no circle?
Thing is, I need some credibility when something goes against my own personal experience, and those banners aren’t helping.

Oh. Yeah I’m very mindful on my aegis during that fight. I’ve never seen it go down before at the aoe unless I’m not behind him or I miss the dodge. I always watch for it to go down and put up another because of that poison attack usually goes after me and it might not get reflected and I can prevent a lot of damage to the group by tanking it with aegis. I did 48 nearly every day for 3 months and we always do swamp first so I’ve had a good sample. You can watch the other one I have as a guardian point of view and see the same. I wouldn’t get hung up on the banners. People make mistakes and we weren’t going for records or anything. It just showed how people standing in front go down while I don’t when I’m in the back.

Wethospu.6437:

2 Guardians probably help with that. Anyways is there a reason why your Warriors put banners out of range?

You don’t really have to dodge anything other than the aoe if you have 2 guards chaining wall/shield well so yeah it helps. I usually just waste my dodges when I play guard to get behind it since I don’t need them for much other than the aoe. I’m not sure why they put the banners that far out. Blame it on the Ranger.

Wethospu.6437:

obal.3218:

Wethospu.6437:

Bloomhunger is really annoying to melee. There’s good chance that some circles won’t even appear (at least if everyone melees).

If you stay behind it this won’t happen. I have my groups just run frantically to get behind it the whole time and we don’t have a problem doing full melee.

Can’t you pretty much tank one hit on level 48?
Anyways I don’t know if he does more projectiles at higher levels but I will next time try stay directly behind him.

You can’t tank it at 48. I don’t think there are more either but I don’t do below 48. I’ve done the fight a lot and never get hit like that if I stay behind it. You can see what happened to people in front of it and me behind it and the damage it does at 48 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GirF3psJMU

Wethospu.6437:

Bloomhunger is really annoying to melee. There’s good chance that some circles won’t even appear (at least if everyone melees).

If you stay behind it this won’t happen. I have my groups just run frantically to get behind it the whole time and we don’t have a problem doing full melee.

You can try ogre pet whistles. Not sure if they stack with the elementals but they might.

The update that had the stealth changes started making him do that. He will follow you out to the room if you run out. You can reset him if he does that if you go to where you first dropped down on the left in the corner which is behind you.

We aren’t doing CoF as I said above and I’ve said a bunch of times that I updated the OP.

Almdudler.8621:

Broadicea.8294:

obal.3218:

I was thinking arah path 3 and some fractal 48 bosses. I can fill the roll of anything but the ranger.

For arah path 3
Guardian, Mesmer, 2 Rangers, 1 Engineer
vs
Guardian, Mesmer, 2 Warriors, 1 Elementalist

For fractal bosses
2 Guardians, 2 Rangers, 1 Engineer
vs
what I had for my videos

I would agree with this, it seems fair and the longer length of arah p3 compared to CoF would make any difference more readily observable.

If its gonna happen I’d start with cof, simply because it requires the lessest effort and if the time is significant slower I honestly wouldnt have the motivation to see the it in longer paths. Start little then broaden the range.

People already did 4r/1m and it would have been around 7:30 which is about what we got screwing around with 3r/2e using ele weapons and much slower than others did with warriors. Still CoF is trash and we made the videos as a satire and CoF fit those purposes.

Broadicea.8294:

Vox Hollow.2736:

I don’t know.
It kind of depends if your null hypothesis is meant to be self-enclosed to the speedrun farming meta or if you mean to extrapolate larger implications for dunning running as a whole? Two totally different kinds of tests, there.

Even then, critical hits and weapon variability and the daunting human factor is enough of a swing that you should really be focusing on statistical significance. It’s just too easy to find correlations in smaller population sizes.

If rangers contribute more DPS than warriors then replacing warriors with rangers should yield a statistically significant reduction in average dungeon run time. If they are statistically equal (or at least within the margin of error for our measurements), there should be no perceivable difference. If they’re much worse (my vote though I’ll try not to taint the measurements) then there should be a significant increase in run time.

And if we really do settle on CoF/1 as the proving ground, note that 8 minutes versus 6 minutes is not trivial.

I was thinking arah path 3 and some fractal 48 bosses. I can fill the roll of anything but the ranger.

For arah path 3
Guardian, Mesmer, 2 Rangers, 1 Engineer
vs
Guardian, Mesmer, 2 Warriors, 1 Elementalist

For fractal bosses
2 Guardians, 2 Rangers, 1 Engineer
vs
what I had for my videos

Wethospu.6437:

obal.3218:

I updated the OP and asked for reasonable tests. The only way to really test a Ranger’s worth in dungeons is in a group like I’ve asked for in 3 different threads now. I would also consider an ok test if Weth made a Ranger and did his thing and gave his feedback compared to his warrior . I got 0 replies.

I wouldn’t hold your breath. I have been leveling my Mesmer for about 3 months now, it’s still level 50. :P

I guess you felt it was unfair to have up to 4 of you in your party at once or did you get tired of carrying the other 3?

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Chopps.5047:

Brazil has somehow mastered the art of being both polite and mean at the same time while also being hilarious. I want to make fun of you somehow man but I can’t. You’re too kitten funny. Lawl.

You can thank bipolar disorder for that.

Lols. He’s that kind of guy that will do a whole fractal 48 run dredge and all and give his slot away for free to a guildy at the maw one minute then tell some to go kitten themselves and say stuff about their mom on mumble the next.

waxpax.6350:

Yasi.9065:

Are you serious? My main isnt a ranger but I should just waste about 10-20g so you can get to compare numbers? O_o

How about you level your ranger and then equip it and test it. Its about as ridiculous as you asking someone else to do it…..

My apologies, I assumed you had a ranger that you could use to compare. That is how I read your comment.

I suppose your comment about not wanting to waste 10-20 gold on gearing your ranger could be read as you thinking there is no way your ranger could match the numbers I gave, but that could also be considered trolling so I’ll stay away from that topic.

Edit: We could probably just compare numbers in the mists just as easily as in dungeons. Maybe I’ll try it sometime.

You could just watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75xWbWmN4Xc and then watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EoSxlE2yCw (can turn off the pesky annotations)

MF

/15 chars

Yasi.9065:

Now how about you take 1 guardian, 4 baby warriors and do the same?

Then we at least know which class scales better………

Between that and doing fractal 48 1-2x nearly every day for 3 months I need a break from inflicting self harm. I’ll admit though, the warhorn was nifty for the shaman bubble.

We have the same problem with the Arah LFG guild. It would be nice if there was a check for each guild instead of just for the one you are repping. We made a site on http://www.shivtr.com/ to help organize events and get people together. You can make your on group page on the site and you will have a calender where you can set up events and allow sign ups to fill the group as well as have a forum and some other small things. I believe it is free.

swiftpaw.6397:

obal.3218:

Our silly failed experiment from above
Legendary Imbued Shaman scale 48 vs 1 Guardian and Baby Rangers (Got it to half health)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKQjNymLiLw

What… what in the name of dwayna… was that

A back ache

Our silly failed experiment from above
Legendary Imbued Shaman scale 48 vs 1 Guardian and Baby Rangers

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

haviz.1340:

Broadicea.8294:

There are plenty of people suggesting to help do the experiment by bring an organized group and having Guang be the 5th slot with whatever he’s suggesting would improve the time of (in case of CoF) 1M/4W. That’s exactly what happened with Kitsune, and he proved his case which is why LH ele is a widely accepted component in speed groups now.

But Guang isn’t interested in actually proving his claims, which is why he doesn’t take anyone up on those offers.

That’s rather unfortunate he doesn’t want to do that for whatever reason, but I’m just saying people here shouldn’t do such simple calculations like dividing his damage by time.

I don’t waste my time because people are dumb, exactly like we’re seeing this thread right this instant, and it’s not going to make a difference. There are very easy to ways to test individual DPS contribution, and looking at the overall clear times between two completely different groups isn’t one of them.

Instead all I get is a bunch of inane “LOOK AT MY BIG NUMBERS” posts. This is exactly what I knew would happen, so I’m not actually surprised, but really.

The warrior may do a higher total burst at first but it goes down to being a relatively weak auto-attack (even if you do switch to axe) for a good 5-6 seconds after every HB. Comparing HB > Whirlwind > Eviscerate in Time Warp to a sustained high-damage auto-attack is totally stupid, but of course you don’t get that because LOOK AT THE BIG PRETTY NUMBERS. Let’s also not even count the 12% or so DPS buff to the rest of the party from Spotter and Frost Spirit, because that doesn’t make a big number, and if it doesn’t make a big number it’s obviously not DPS.

What really annoys me, though, is when the more informed players are willing to acknowledge that rangers, guardians, and engineers do in fact give higher DPS than the warrior, but STILL refuse to run with them, simply because it’s easier to put together all-warrior runs. I remember someone in DnT saying that, among others. That is fine if those are their individual circumstances but when otherwise uninformed players twist “warriors are easy to find” into “warriors must be the best class” then we’re going nowhere.

Oh, by the way, is the banners thing a running joke or do people actually think it does more than ranger sword? It’s pretty obvious it doesn’t.

I updated the OP and asked for reasonable tests. The only way to really test a Ranger’s worth in dungeons is in a group like I’ve asked for in 3 different threads now. I would also consider an ok test if Weth made a Ranger and did his thing and gave his feedback compared to his warrior . I got 0 replies.

swiftpaw.6397:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

I don’t waste my time because people are dumb, exactly like we’re seeing this thread right this instant, and it’s not going to make a difference. There are very easy to ways to test individual DPS contribution, and looking at the overall clear times between two completely different groups isn’t one of them.

Yes, everyone is dumb for wanting proof and not believing you. Hell, they are even volunteering their time and classes to prove it for you! How silly of them!

I guess it’s up to the dark side to try. Dun-Dun-Dun-Dun-Duh-Duh-Dps…….

swiftpaw.6397:

Broadicea.8294:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Broadicea.8294:

You calculate the group’s DPS by a known quantity (i.e. 1 Evolved Destroyer) of damage over a known quantity of time (i.e. 1 shield drop). It doesn’t matter what the quantity of time is, but longer is better for sustainability’s sake. As long as you’re consistent between comparisons it doesn’t matter.

There is no encounter in PvE that can be done faster with rangers and engineers in place of warriors. If anyone wants to prove that wrong I’ll salvage my Fused or Fractal Greatsword, your choice.

Hardest part of that is finding three Engineers or Rangers

lol yeah

I have engy and ranger at 80 and would volunteer as well, but I would need instruction on how to use ranger to maximize dps and engy, well…not even in berserker gear so probably not.

I have an 80 ranger, full zerker with 2x ascended zerker rings, 1x ascended back and exo zerker earrings/ammy. I’m happy to volunteer but I don’t think this guy wants a demonstration.

I have a zerker engy and this http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/82395-guide-to-grenades-in-pve/

Wethospu.6437:

With some practice it shouldn’t be too bad. It’s like every melee boss out there who doesn’t understand to hit unless you are within “melee-range”. Because all melee weapons can actually hit bit further you can simply back-pedal and keep hitting as long as he is Crippled.

And if you are the only one meleeing, well then it’s really really easy.

Lols. I’ll have to give it a try if any of my groups are willing to actually fight it. We do that to the champ shaman but I didn’t think it would work on him.

Well, this thread is getting a bit off topic and numbers are flying everywhere so I went ahead and updated the OP. I was hoping for some decent rebuttal and evidence that Rangers are as worthwhile to the group as other “good” professions or to further prove they are broken and need fixing. In doing so I was also hoping for some viable ways to play them so people can see rather than having every Ranger in the pugs I join spam nothing but a bow, let there pet aggro everything, let their pet not attack most of the time, jump on rocks/platforms and auto attack, have an allergy to the cliffside hammer , etc. We have plenty to show how guardians, warriors, and mesmers should play but not much about how to play the other classes well like Engineers, Necros, and Rangers.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

haviz.1340:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Oh so you’re a better player than Obal?

I watched archdiviner video and it seems that almost whole of his party, including him, lacks knowledge about certain game mechanics, probably because they spent too much time on exploiting which he even acknowledges. Improving that part is within reach.

I’m very sad to see what these forums have become. Instead of asking what could have been improved you’re responding with basically ‘whoru?’. Compare your response to obal’s.

Finally, please stop trying to look for sarcasm in my posts.

If you had offered the things which could be improved (not saying there arent I have no idea what video you’re referencing or who was in the group) initially rather than making a troll post designed to insult Obal I might treat you with a bit more respect in return. Try thinking about that.

He is referring to the final seal Archdiviner fight. I do agree with him to an extent, but I have never seen anyone melee him at any level in a pug and I’ve never seen him been meleed on videos 40+. Honestly, I would like to see it so I can learn how to deal with it since it seems very punishing when he starts doing agony with the hammer and ANET might actually fix it some day and I will have that new challenge to overcome. I tried watching Strife’s video but it was in the 30s and after watching someone tank a hammer hit with agony I stopped watching. I never get to fight it legit since no team pug, guild, or friends list has a desire to fight it legit. I pretty much forced my group to do it since it was the only video I had left for my guide. I really don’t blame them though since the Fractals rewards are so broken and terrible. Fortunately, it is the only thing that is cheesed on our runs other than the first 2 maw tentacles. We had a person who never plays guardian and hasn’t played the game for many months picking up the hammer and a trial to the guild that has never done the 40s so it went pretty well considering that.

Sure there were some improvements that could be made like having the warriors burst in on the dredge bosses with melee throughout the fight (dredge suit one had 4 first timers to 40s dredge), etc but the goal of referencing the videos was just taking normal runs and comparing them to what a group with rangers can do. The purpose of the videos themselves were to show how to play as a guardian in fractals for people that pug or would like to start trying things a bit differently in organized groups and not speed runs so yes there is room for improvement but I really don’t see a lot. I don’t have a dedicated group either since most people quit fractals or the game by the time they get the 40s down. You did come off a bit strong with saying a lot and nothing else and I appreciate that Nike steps up for our guild members. He is a nice guy so I wouldn’t read his posts as having a harsh tone.

Wukunlin.8461:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Nikaido.3457:

A group of 1 engineer, 3 rangers and 1 mesmer beat DnT’s record kill :
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1ho102/new_world_record_lupi_in_41_sec/

That sounds impressive. I bet they would have done it even faster if they had at least one warrior to stack the banner buffs on too.

Regardless, even if it supports my contention, Lupicus is a pretty bad point of comparison for DPS tests because he is just burst and reflect, so it favors just stacking mesmers and bursty classes like engineers and rangers, and disfavors classes with more “steady” DPS. Hell, most of the “DPS” in Lupicus fights comes from Lupicus killing himself with reflected projectiles.

So you barely even read before you reply. I wonder how many factors you choose to ignore and and omit in your excel spreadsheets.

Clippy is a Guardian. He is there to carry people in Excel like in Guild Wars 2 so it should be fine.

Hint: look up a few posts if you don’t get it.

Broadicea.8294:

ed: ^^^^ oh my sweet jesus lol

Excel Wars 2.

Still waiting on those speedclear videos.

Here is all the proof you need.

TheMaskedParadigm.3629:

Everyone knows that I’m the best player in Guild Wars 2. Don’t fault Obal for at least trying to match my skill level.

I try my bestest, but you will always be a better Ranger than I will ever be. You use them banners like a pro.

haviz.1340:

obal.3218:

-snip-

Those videos were very illuminating, thank you. But there is still a lot room for improvement.

I agree there is some room for improvement. I just captured some normal runs without planning or people knowing for a guide on how to play as a Guardian so it’s not like we were going for speed. They are mostly pretty quick and clean and can show what the classes can hope to accomplish and something to compare against.

I’d really love to get some kills on them with the best party comp, gear, traits, and consumables geared toward each boss and people trying their best for a video (and are aware I’m even capturing ) but not many are interested in that sort of thing.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

I like how the response to overwhelming numerical evidence has always been “PLEASE GIB VIDEO”. Then the response to a video is always “I DON’T LIKE THAT VIDEO PLEASE GIB DIFF VIDEO”.

Numbers don’t mean much especially if your hitting a practice dummy. I offered this as somewhat of a joke for people to show us something that proves rangers are any better than it. The reality is that pets are pretty bad and rangers don’t do a ton of damage which they really need to do since they don’t offer much to the party. They can be a good source of fury but other classes do it with better dps and utility. They give the 150 precision but a warrior banner is a lot better than it. They have nothing else to give to the party except healing spring and the spirit which dies quick and you have to run out of combat to use it for it to stay alive and lose out on dps in return (shown in Chopps’s video). Sure they can stack might but it’s on themselves and a party can stack all the might you need.

I was called out by Chopps by he never bothered to respond back to my post of comparing his ranger show off video with terrible numbers and long fights compared to a group of better classes with big numbers and quicker fights. I gave him a challenge to show us that rangers are as good or better but I got nothing but silence as expected. Same with a couple other threads.

If you would like to take the challenge then go for it. Do it with 3+ rangers. I said 2 before but since you feel so strongly I will say 3 instead. More should be better right?

Beat lupi in under a minute
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4FyXNgX2CE

Fractal 48 (no lower)
(these were normal runs and not let’s get a record run like the lupi one.
they didn’t know I was even recording and we have done a bunch of them faster)
Captain Ashym 0:56 = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18WL-QGZDsA
Mossman 3:00 = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9cJWm-toi0
Bloomhunger 1:18 = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAFxIG-3awM
Legendary Shaman Lornarr 2:30 = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7EyabBIfmk
Archdiviner 2:20 = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_CxZV3WYk8
Raving Asura 1:20 = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EoSxlE2yCw
Jellyfish Beast 3:33 = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-T1FZ61rcU
Legendary Rampaging Ice Elemental 2:41 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bh8j6DRIOms
Legendary Dredge Powersuit 3:15 = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDDPPsBnB8k
Legendary Imbued Shaman 5:15 = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKdOMkq43OY
Champion Grawl Shaman 2:00 = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvOlDiArL4M
Old Tom 1:00 = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSYyqyW1cp4
Final Seal Archdiviner Fight 9:00 (spent 1m longer since we missed a charge) = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QD85exhKXcw

I guess it’s hard for the devs to balance the game from when I watch some footage of them doing the molten facility, they have a ranger spamming nothing but a bow and not using the elite, a guardian auto attacking with a staff the whole time, and the one commenting on it says they are doing pretty good so far. Compare that to the what we do in the videos I linked. It’s not a surprise that there is an imbalance given that.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

3) Rangers have a pet, which also contributes DPS. I see no indication of pet damage measurements in this post, but a pet typically contributes between 1-2k DPS. In terms of total damage, a totally decked out ranger (might, fury, vulnerability, banners, consumable, Spotter, Empower Allies) hits for over 10k DPS once you include the pet’s damage. That is almost identical to the guardian’s DPS and higher than the warrior’s DPS, which is about 9.6k.

It’s in the second picture. Here is an unofficial test though for you. Snowballs must be OP.

Noob Ele PoV
http://youtu.be/yJdX4E0VLOw

Guardians are better for fractals. I would think it would be easier to get in a group as a guardian and it would be better to play it if you get a bad group. I’ve been doing 48 for a few months and I’ve found that mesmers aren’t that great for fractals. Lately I’ve been going with 2guards 3wars, 3 guards 2wars, or 2 guards 2wars 1 ele and I’d say it’s better than having a mesmer. DPS guardian > mesmer for fractals.

If you do play a guardian you can check this out http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/84006-guardian-video-guide-for-fractals-of-the-mist-shown-at-48/

I have 5 torches and 3+ of each underwater weapon. Fractals is turning me into a bitter troll.