Bottom line is that new fractals will probably be really easy for scale 80 players and whole reset thing is just pointless slap in the face. We want challenge. Not some stupid grind.
All this time we have waited for challenge and now what? Grind to 50, figure out a hole in their system because they just can’t edit one line of code properly, grind to 80, notice that it’s not that hard and then get thrown back to 30 next year?And please don’t give me this “instabilities will be hard and exciting”. It is aimed at casuals. We have no reason to believe they know how to make good content. And you will probably stop doing them one week later so why do you people care so much?
But I promise I will be very interested if you find someone with scale 80 who is excited about the new patch.
its something different, the devs never claimed it would be harder than level 80 content. Level 80 content wasnt meant to be accessed, and no longer exists. Its content meant for people who are in the range of 30-50, if you call that casual, then ok. If your real beef is you want content as hard as level 80 stuff, then your true desire has been obscured up to this point. I suggest you ask arena net to make more content that is mechanically more difficult. They may be considering it
told you, its not a good idea, because you havent completed all challenges
So? If the hardest challenge is easier than the easier challenge than horrible design.
leaderboards suck
Agreed
To add to this, I’m an avid rock climber.
In rock climbing and bouldering competitions, there are beginner levels, intermediate levels, and advance levels.
When I enter a competition, I can choose to go at beginner, intermediate, or advance. If I pick beginner and fly through all the problems, they bump me up to intermediate.
If I enter as advance, and I suck and fail, I go do intermediate problems.
They don’t force me to start at beginner and work my way up. If I can’t do the advance, then I need to start low and practice.
and as avid rock climber i am sure there is a whole range of very interesting mountains that fall in each category, and are not strictly speaking harder than each other, but provide different challenges, if that is not the case, ok.
But it is in many sports, many disciplines, piano for example, art, etc.
I think its honestly better design if instabilities can give this type of teired challenge
Accessibility. What good is the content if no one can get to it except for a vast minority of people? At level 30 most people have a reasonable shot to see the instabilities with a moderate bit of effort. Putting it at 50 shuts out the vast majority of players and would discourage many from even trying.
So does that make it right to take it away from us? Just so majority will be ok with it? It’s like saying that they’ll take away legendaries from minority, so majority can catch up to their accomplishments. Or resetting everyone’s achievement score and taking their right to rewards they unlocked, so everyone can “start at equal footing”. We worked hard to get to that level 50 while others were farming gold and getting rewarded for doing dungeons and such. Doesn’t matter how you look at it, it doesn’t make it right.
It does, and I’ll tell you why.
They’re taking away two things. The fractals post-30 under the old system and your access to higher levels of content that no longer exist. That’s all it penultimately boils down to… changing content and accessibility to the new content. Levels are being reset to 30 because no one has done this content beyond level 30, therefore no one has earned any levels beyond 30 in this new content.
That’s why it makes sense and why it’s right. Old content gone. Access to old content gone. Access to new content begins where the new content begins.
Still doesn’t make it right for me in any way. They could have said that the content will be temporary then, so i wouldn’t waste my time. At all. You obviously haven’t been invested in fractals as much as some of us. And because we have been invested into them so much, we’re being punished by taking away one thing in this game we loved the most and not getting anything worth of any value for the time and work we put into it. Developers’ involvement is non-existant in the issue, and because of people like you it makes it all ok. “Hey this guy is cool with it, so everyone is cool with it”. I’m done with this thread and fractals respectively…
What content? An algorithm isn’t content. The only different between EVERY level of Fractals is the difficulty. It keeps getting harder because a program tells it to be harder. It’s not content, it’s not like they actually went and planned out each level and how it would work, they just designed them to be harder.
NOW that isn’t true anymore. They are actually going into the levels past 30 and adding things, things are content. The new instabilities which are supposed to be continually different each level are added content to something that didn’t have added content.
So no content was temporary.
not exactly true, agony changed boss fight mechanics, and some enemies got new abilities. In other parts changing the numbers of enemies changed the best strategies.
However i do believe at some level, the devs said it became 100% the same only scaling in mob stats, my guess is its broken up like the lfg tool, and nothing new happens after 30, other than dmg/def/hp scaling
Let leaderboards be based off of highest rank done.
If the top level players go into 50, and finish it the first day, then the content is a joke and unnecessary reset. If they fail 50 and have to start at 38, 40 whatever to practice and work their way up, then they will. No reason in unnessarily resetting levels.
*Credit to Weth
Nobody? Too good of an idea?
told you, its not a good idea, because you havent completed all challenges
In fact i think the leaderboards should essentially be how many different instabilities you beat, or total fractals beat with each instability. max level is really shallow and shows nothing.
say there are 20 instabilities, and 13 different fractals (if there are 3 new levels and 2 new bosses) that would be 160 levels, and only the most hardcore would be at the top that board. I guess the flaw would be the bad rng on getting the fractals and challenges you need, so ehhh.
leaderboards suck
The whole idea of the new fractals system is to get more players doing fractals.
They are re-doing how you get agony resistance and making it so you get a little bit every level…because one barrier to people before was spending the ecto and fractal relics to infuse items.
They are making it easier to get to level 50…because another barrier last time was that difficulty went up significantly once you got over 30…it scaled fairly slowly to 28, but 30 was a lot harder than 28, 38 was way harder than 30 and 48 made me feel like running 28’s and 38s was “relaxing”. (don’t even get any of us started on the 50+ difficulty’s because it continued to scale like this).
They implemented a leaderboard to try and get the PVP’rs and WvW’rs (who like leaderboards and scales of talent and a feeling of competition). The leaderboard will be pretty meaningless until they open above 50, but this is probably their reasoning.
The set all this at 30 instead of 50 to get the majority of the players (who were sitting at the 28 level in fractals)…
They implemented the instabilities because these “handicaps” went over very well in the queens pavilion champ challenges…and they want to get those players involved who loved that…there will no doubt be achievements tied to this as well (get through a 34 fractal without dying once = achievement, etc).
I welcome the changes, and I will welcome the new players. We will all need to learn the new tactics with the new fractals and we will all be one happy family.
But I don’t have to like losing my former levels…it is work lost and it is equity lost. I think ANET should make some sort of effort in appeasing these players, just like I think they should have made an effort to do so for past losses, and like I think they should make appeasement for any future equity lost by any group…even groups that I don’t associate with.
Equity lost is equity lost…regardless of whether that number meant anything to anyone else…the number represents hours and months worth of work to someone…it meant something to them.
you are not really correct Moshari
1)They arent making it easier to get AR, you still are required to get an infused ring or backpiece before you can use any of the new AR infusions. They are starting off blank, whereas before they started at +5 when you got them. I think the main reason for this change is to make it so that progressing in fractals does not require you to do dailies, WvW craft an ascended weapon, or etc. Now you can get 55 AR from just 3 pieces if you are dedicated.
2) they are changing the difficulty type, its really not going to be cmparable to the old difficulty, apples and oranges, from the dev blog the point of instabilities is to change up the old patterns you are used to, thats the opposite of the old progressions goal, which was to refine, and test how well you mastered the old patterns.
3) leader boards, ehhh who knows why this is here, guess it depends on the implementation
4) i actually think this isnt made to get casuals to get into fractals, its more to get all the people who stopped in the mid to late 20s, or stopped in the 30s or just stopped overall, mostly because the fractals were the same, only less forgiving, and longer time beating up hp/toughness bags
This patch is to do a number of things
general pass, clean up bugs and cheesy techniques for beating content
content pass, add new content
quality pass, improve the quality of the challenges and interestingness of progressing
Its not really an appeal to casuals here, its actually an appeal to people who lost interest, come look, its new exciting and more fun. AND its got gold now!
just to be clear, a lot of the people who lost interest are of various levels.
Accessibility. What good is the content if no one can get to it except for a vast minority of people? At level 30 most people have a reasonable shot to see the instabilities with a moderate bit of effort. Putting it at 50 shuts out the vast majority of players and would discourage many from even trying.
So does that make it right to take it away from us? Just so majority will be ok with it? It’s like saying that they’ll take away legendaries from minority, so majority can catch up to their accomplishments. Or resetting everyone’s achievement score and taking their right to rewards they unlocked, so everyone can “start at equal footing”. We worked hard to get to that level 50 while others were farming gold and getting rewarded for doing dungeons and such. Doesn’t matter how you look at it, it doesn’t make it right.
too angry, your also making a lot of comparisons that arent accurate.
Would you be ok if you could keep your old levels, but only had access to old content? lets say old fractals would return in 4 months as a side fractal, and you kept your level?
Two questions for you.
1. How does a title and a t-shirt give them an advantage over anyone else?
2. What the heck is a “squish”?
It sends the message that their pain is somehow greater than the pain of the many people who have gotten screwed by previous nerfs. It offers them special snowflake status and that’s the wrong move to make here.
There’s a difference between nerfing areas that were being abused (for want of a better word) and recognizing the achievements people made in content that is being removed.
SAB World 2. It’s the same situation. People achieved getting through. Then they changed the content making it easier for others to get through, but those who got through while it was very hard got nothing to show for their accomplishment.
Same situation. No recognition.
No, not the same. SAB world 2 was bugged. The difficulty was higher than they intended. While a select few made it through before the fix, it was never intended to be that tough.
Fractals to 50 was meant to be tough from the outset. A few excelled, as expected, while many didn’t make it that far, also as expected. This is a situation where 31 – 50 is being replaced, so why not recognize the few that excelled under intentionally tough circumstances? I won’t get a title, but I won’t lose anything either because I hadn’t earned it so it doesn’t bother me in the least.
Yeah, it was super tough and people weren’t intended to get through it. 51 – 80, people weren’t intended to get through it, but they did.
More importantly, what happens if the new content is significantly more difficult to complete than it ever was before because of the new mechanic.
Should people be recognized for completing inferior content?
In that vein, everyone should be leveled down to 1 (which would have probably made me happier, but a lot more people angy). Level 1-30 changes significantly….new fractals, no more odd fractals without any boss monster. Now you ALWAYS end with a boss fractal AND fractals are weighted so that easier ones always appear first and harder ones later…which means you can’t get lucky anymore and hit Swamp / water / ascalon.
According to your logic, since the experience is now different and the new way is technically harder, why should people who rushed this week to 30 (and infused their rings) gain an advantage over people that didn’t? Shouldn’t everything be reset?
you are correct, in fact, even though i was never one to do odd fractals once i didnt have to, i always went for the boss, some people probably did use it for slightly faster runs (ehhh not really worth it)
If they fixed a lot of the unintended work arounds, that alone may make some fractals super hard
changing the maw, which is probably one of the easiest fights in the game to possibly being two of the harder fights, is a big deal
the easy run versus hard run is hard to say, to be honest i did a great many dredge, cliffside, shaman runs for many people it evened out
so yeah it is harder, but its still pretty close to what we did before. i guess it amounts to having to decide a cut off point somewhere
Allowing you to skip several levels of instabilities? No. That’s just plain wrong.
Then why put some random system in the middle of something people passed months ago?? Put in on 50 where the mythical cap was made and extend the cap. What’s so hard about that? Why go back? Why take everyone’s progress and wipe it clean. This is not 1500’s. We live in time where progression is encouraged. Why go back?
You make it sound like it’s fair because instabilities or whatever they call it was put in. Then why didn’t they put it on higher levels? The levels almost every respectable fractal player waited to be unlocked. You can’t use instabilities as an argument and call them a reason. From what I remember we never asked for them, so they’re being forced upon us, just like the level reset. Your argument is not a valid one.
instabilities is not made for old fractal system, old fractal system was designed around mechanical difficulty increases.
this is old fractals
make one basket =flevel1
make two baskets in a row = flevel2
etc
instabilities is like
make one basket while running with a defender
make one basket within 5 seconds
make one basket with your left hand
make one basket after running 2 laps
point is putting it behind the 80 basket in a row requirement doesnt make sense, because its testing skills in a different way.
instabilities is not to solve the difficulty level issue, instabilities is to solve the type of difficulty, and a feeling of doing new things. They have put the difficulty of the other type on haitus for now
The AC path was revamped at twilight arbor was given a new path. The dungeon master title was not taken away. I am able to skip that content and retain my title.
yeah but they didnt give you the achievements for beating the new TA. all your title says is you beat 4 TA paths, thats accurate. I am fully on board with them giving a title showing what you beat before.
You want the achievements and rewards for the new path, thats the difference.
Two questions for you.
1. How does a title and a t-shirt give them an advantage over anyone else?
2. What the heck is a “squish”?
It sends the message that their pain is somehow greater than the pain of the many people who have gotten screwed by previous nerfs. It offers them special snowflake status and that’s the wrong move to make here.
There’s a difference between nerfing areas that were being abused (for want of a better word) and recognizing the achievements people made in content that is being removed.
SAB World 2. It’s the same situation. People achieved getting through. Then they changed the content making it easier for others to get through, but those who got through while it was very hard got nothing to show for their accomplishment.
Same situation. No recognition.
not exactly the same, i do wonder would the high fractal dudes prefer that though? lets say they unlock all fractal levels for a week, and anybody who beats a level gets that rank, would they be more mad, or less mad at getting reset?
This is the solution – just take out the leaderboard.
Then, any “advantage” level 50+ players have has no effect on anyone else. Hey, but then aren’t they skipping levels that will now be harder? No – the devs have said the curve will be easier. The way difficulty is implemented will be different, but not harder such that 50+ players need to prove they can do it grinding out 20 levels again. But lets say for arguments sake it is harder – the system is self regulating because of the difficulty curve. If players cant handle the new 48, they will try easier levels.
The only “advantage” 50+ players have is a slightly better personal reward opportunity. You can still get AR and you can still play 48s (if someone can open for you) at personal level 30. Keeping that seems a lot less unfair then removing character progression for the sake of a leaderboard no-one asked for. Do you really care if some of us get a little more gold and the chance at a tonic a little before everyone else, because we chose to grind through the awful scaling of the old system?
doesnt work that way, they will try to learn hardest.
Also as you say its going to be different, thats the whole issue, why should someone be able to skip new content based on what they did in some different content?
People who invested in AR already will have an advantage. That is fine. I mean if you guys just want a game genie code to get to the last level, it wont effect me much, but you havent achieved or proved anything by skipping to the end.
Two questions for you.
1. How does a title and a t-shirt give them an advantage over anyone else?
2. What the heck is a “squish”?
It sends the message that their pain is somehow greater than the pain of the many people who have gotten screwed by previous nerfs. It offers them special snowflake status and that’s the wrong move to make here.
mistakes of the past shouldnt be repeated. Just because i suffered in the past doesnt mean new people should.
Overall i think it needs to be examined, if they are going to make this evolving world, and sometimes remove things people feel attached to, or earned in some fashion, what types of ways can they mitigate this, or deal with it
If you mean the living story ones – people knew in advance about said content getting removed.
Here we’re talking about rewarding content after it has been already removed.
Content that didn’t even give achievements for fractal levels, let alone titles.This is a valid point. It would be terribly unfair to collectors if they threw in a title out of thin air and made it impossible for players to acquire it within a reasonable time frame.
No matter what they do here they will upset somebody. The best course of action is to simply let it be. I know I’ll be working on my levels as soon as the patch hits and I suspect the same applies to the most hardcore of fractal frequenters.
I think something has to give here, they can make it a hidden title you cant even see unless its unlocked, while its unfair to collectors that they didnt know ahead of time about it, its also unfair that people who did fractals up to 50 didnt know that it was going to be canceled and removed.
perhaps they can say old fractals will come back periodically, so people who really want those titles can work on them
Look man, I’m not trying to get our levels to stay the same. I’m trying to have a good discussion. You’re the one who is devaluing hard work by saying its meaningless. I want titles and town clothes, and I’ve said it a million times. I’m here giving actual solutions, you’re just trying to make people feel bad.
I’m not here trying to make anyone feel bad. I started with a very simple bullet pointed post, and was attacked for it. I’m defending my opinion.
That “hard work” isn’t meaningless, but it shouldn’t be given more importance just because levels get reset.
I can see titles or cosmetic things being fair, but I don’t think they’re right. That’s simply attaching extra reward to a system that had no intrinsic reward to begin with, after you’ve already removed the ability to gain said reward.
That doesn’t seem right to me.
i think of it more as a memento to commemorate how far they went, since the dungeon isnt there any more, its a record of what they achieved.
If they sank Orr again and wanted to give players who completed the map a viewable map of the former island for their personal instances, i think it would be fair.
Conceding the idea that they have to move forward and may sometimes have to destroy old content, you should also understand that in the same breath there will be unique things that only those who were there may have.
They have done it with dye, backpacks, masks etc.
If old fractals were there for a year and you didnt care enough to max it, why would you want a shirt that says i maxed fractals?
I FULLY understand that it is Different content now, BUT this is a major slipper slope!!!!!
And I mean MAJOR!!!If they are taking away levels, hard work, progress now b.c of the one reason “We want you to experience the new content” What to stop them from doing the same thing in other aspects of the game?
How would you like it if they took away all the pvp ranks for a new system, all the WvW ranks for a new system, your PVE character levels, all your crafting levels! B.c some new changes that they want you to Experience it from the start. Would you be ok with that? NO!
slippery slope means you have to be careful, it doesnt mean you cant do it. Like i said before, i believe devs have actually mentioned possibly reseting pvp rank, and some high end players have in fact asked for it.
also, the levels in fractals are not actually anything but markers, they allow you to warp to your previous level in the dungeon. 30+ is a new dungeon.
The real point of contention here should be the fact that they are removing content. The real beef is that they are removing the dungeon some people loved. They have decided that it is feasible to do so, and fits withing their evolving world idea. If you have a problem with that, you need to focus on that.
This discussion is a lot closer to the TA path discussion than people think. If TA path allowed you to permantly unlock waypoints, it would be almost exactly the same.
So really, what do you think about removing content and replacing the new, what should be done about people who were invested in the old. It is a slippery slope, but it still needs t be walked. What people should be discussing is how much is acceptable, and what to do about people who get left behind.
Also what are the developer benefits to replacing content versus adding to it? What goes into the design decision of what to keep and what to discard? Should new systems be designed to expand or evolve?
The levels in fractals are a big deal and you just saying they are markers making them seem to be nothing at all means you dont fully understand how important this is to the players. Look how many topics there are open it, look at what players are saying, read all the arguing, its a big deal.
So your saying, if they redo the crafting system, that all the work you put into the get all 8 crafts to 400-500, that you will be ok will all of it being reset to level 300? B.c level 300+ is being reworked?
That is what it sounds like to me, that your ok with anet making those changes when ever they want?
Im not going to talk about this anymore and hope anet says something about all this.
you totally miss my point
Im saying it is a big deal, but the big deal isnt really just about fractal levels.
I am also saying that just because its a hard line to walk doesnt mean the game doesnt have to walk it
Im saying to broaden your discussion from blind rage, to how to actually deal with reality that they need to improve and alter things that arent working and yet various people are invested in it in various ways.
Do you think they should never make a change that will impact anyones percieved reward or status?
What should be the limits if they do?
What are the costs if they dont make these changes?
In this specific case, i will say titles make sense, They show how far they went in old fractals
49th ? level Fractalist
32nd ? level Fractalist
Some may be mad they cant get these titles, but hey old fractals.
at the very least it is a nod to the people who went high in old fractals
perhaps they can allow people to continue on that path in a future update
Karma is a good point though….I will miss my 10K Karma from doing a low level run with friends. It helps me buy LOTS of stones for mystic forging and crafting ascended items….
However, as someone else put out there already, there are ways of getting karma….and with the new system it doesn’t sound like they are awarding that Karma bonus anymore anyways.Manuhell.2759 What do you suggest then?
dont think they should really have been giving karma out past 50, due to the fact that it was only obtainable by buddying up for the past X months.
Honestly though i think they are going to take karma out of fractals, they have been serverly reducing karma everywhere else. Since they are apparently going to make the main transferable benefit for fractal be gold now, it probably will no longer have karma benefits.
I FULLY understand that it is Different content now, BUT this is a major slipper slope!!!!!
And I mean MAJOR!!!If they are taking away levels, hard work, progress now b.c of the one reason “We want you to experience the new content” What to stop them from doing the same thing in other aspects of the game?
How would you like it if they took away all the pvp ranks for a new system, all the WvW ranks for a new system, your PVE character levels, all your crafting levels! B.c some new changes that they want you to Experience it from the start. Would you be ok with that? NO!
slippery slope means you have to be careful, it doesnt mean you cant do it. Like i said before, i believe devs have actually mentioned possibly reseting pvp rank, and some high end players have in fact asked for it.
also, the levels in fractals are not actually anything but markers, they allow you to warp to your previous level in the dungeon. 30+ is a new dungeon.
The real point of contention here should be the fact that they are removing content. The real beef is that they are removing the dungeon some people loved. They have decided that it is feasible to do so, and fits withing their evolving world idea. If you have a problem with that, you need to focus on that.
This discussion is a lot closer to the TA path discussion than people think. If TA path allowed you to permantly unlock waypoints, it would be almost exactly the same.
So really, what do you think about removing content and replacing the new, what should be done about people who were invested in the old. It is a slippery slope, but it still needs t be walked. What people should be discussing is how much is acceptable, and what to do about people who get left behind.
Also what are the developer benefits to replacing content versus adding to it? What goes into the design decision of what to keep and what to discard? Should new systems be designed to expand or evolve?
I’d say there is a pretty clear reason why ANet has not weighed in on this one. They have no interest, nor intention of doing anything about this.
People threw themselves against a wall for months for next to no benefit to themselves. They did it for a challenge. Ok, so if they did it for their own reasons, why should the be rewarded now by someone else. They did a difficult thing, that wasn’t specifically supported by ANet, for bragging rights. Why should ANet now give them recognition when that recognition never existed before?
ANet never really put a lot of thought into Fractals. It was an experiment that they’ve only now started to really think about and improve. You should consider all the time up to Fractured as Fractals Beta, and be glad that the wipe is only taking you back to 30, rather that to 1.
Now ANet IS supporting your struggle, and you should expect potentially better compensation for your efforts going forward. But no one cares about your efforts before, because they were your efforts for your reasons, and only you can reward yourself for that.
Resetting levels is not supportive.
You don’t have proof that it was not intended.
We HAVE proof that it was designed as an unlimited dungeon. Why would we night try to make it as far as possible?
If they didn’t intended to go past 50, why was there no hard cap at 50?
because they messed up, and werent sure how they were going to handle it, instead they focused on trying to patch the hole, and figured theyd do a full repair later. They couldnt say the players were wrong but they wanted to limit and prevent the problem from getting worse.
Unfortunately, their solution to a different problem provided a work around for the patchwork solution (thats the problem when you do patchwork solutions) after building, testing and reviewing (which takes a long time) this is their real solution, and they want to avoid the patchwork problems.
I still think the design isnt perfect though, and they arent solving all the problems with this new system, got to work on that suggestion
If you know delete dudgeon tokens where coming you can turn them into ectos so not really equivalent.
Higher rewards across board rewards at new 30 probly better then 80 and you are still complaining just because of a number change.
not sure what you mean
To all the Defender from Anet taking away my legit Progress what you think of this.
Update news: Skritt burglars arriving! They have a complete new currency the platinum from now on every item will be sold for platinum not for Gold!!therefor your Gold will be reseted to 30 Gold wich is the cost you Need to buy your new platinumtradingpostlicence. Reason is we want all Players to start on even ground!
•Asking to keep/convert your old Gold would be, in effect, gaining Money you didn’t earn.
•All you have lost is a meaningless number, which is visible only to you (and not even your group) Your gear is intact as is every reward you ever gained from your Gold with the exception of the total number aquired.
•Implementing a special snowflake reward as such is a terrible idea, and a slippery slope. Giving special “legacy” awards to farmers/Flippers and Tradingpostbotrunners opens up a whole can of worms regarding changed content "reimbursementI in this case I could understand your Argument:)
your anaolgies are bad.
lets say they blow up Crucible of Eternity, a new dungen is made in its remains, they have a new story instance before you can get to new explorable, and new currency for the dungeon. Should you be able to skip the story mode, because you beat story mode in the old crucible? Should you be able to use your old tokens for the new items?
What they are destroying is old fractals.
Perhaps it would have been better if they had said the the old fractal machine blew up, and there is a new challenge in fractal machine deus.
I feel your entitled to something for beating fractal uno, (level 50) but it doesnt mean they should put fractal uno in the way of the new stuff, or should let you skip to the end of the new fractals.
Do you think they would delete your achievments tied to it? The achievments Tied to getting to 81 was the number of 81 .. they delete it would they delete the achievment you got in the old Coe? I don’t think so would they delete your Dungeon Tokkens ( in form of Progress) I don’t think so.. you can’t compare it anway since the Progress you have in fractals are not the tokkens it’s the Level the Progress you have in Dungeon is getting Dungeon tokkens
having to do the new story mode is the equivalent of losing your levels, though on a smaller scale
Using your old tokens to get new rewards is equivalent of you skipping to 40 and getting the infinite tonic.
on the topic of the tonic, is it going to be like the ascalonian one, you can actually fight as the charachter?
they actually made it impossible to get past 50, without buddying up with someone who already beat it before the fixes.
This time its going to be effective though. If they had reset everyone before, it wouldnt be an issue now. Then people wouldnt have got whatever thrill they had from high level fractals. For those that did them, would that actually have been better for you? never to have seen a 75 fractal and tested your metal? Was it a mistake to let people continue even though it was unintended because it wasnt hurting anyone?
It was and still is a mistake to not answer this question:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Fractals-cap-80/page/2#post3233760
since 10 almost 11 months now… and it was a mistake to let ppl complete it… it is a mistake to let ppl get Gold if you think you will delete it in the future[/quote]
so you feel they should have deleted it months ago, admitted they made a mistake and moved on, I see. I guess that is valuable feedback.
i have a suggestion i think they should use in the future to better support both types of players, i think they will probably continue to have this problem going forward if they dont alter the system. Ill try to work up some graphics for it.
To all the Defender from Anet taking away my legit Progress what you think of this.
Update news: Skritt burglars arriving! They have a complete new currency the platinum from now on every item will be sold for platinum not for Gold!!therefor your Gold will be reseted to 30 Gold wich is the cost you Need to buy your new platinumtradingpostlicence. Reason is we want all Players to start on even ground!
•Asking to keep/convert your old Gold would be, in effect, gaining Money you didn’t earn.
•All you have lost is a meaningless number, which is visible only to you (and not even your group) Your gear is intact as is every reward you ever gained from your Gold with the exception of the total number aquired.
•Implementing a special snowflake reward as such is a terrible idea, and a slippery slope. Giving special “legacy” awards to farmers/Flippers and Tradingpostbotrunners opens up a whole can of worms regarding changed content "reimbursementI in this case I could understand your Argument:)
your anaolgies are bad.
lets say they blow up Crucible of Eternity, a new dungen is made in its remains, they have a new story instance before you can get to new explorable, and new currency for the dungeon. Should you be able to skip the story mode, because you beat story mode in the old crucible? Should you be able to use your old tokens for the new items?
What they are destroying is old fractals.
Perhaps it would have been better if they had said the the old fractal machine blew up, and there is a new challenge in fractal machine deus.
I feel your entitled to something for beating fractal uno, (level 50) but it doesnt mean they should put fractal uno in the way of the new stuff, or should let you skip to the end of the new fractals.
they actually made it impossible to get past 50, without buddying up with someone who already beat it before the fixes.
Remember they fixed fractals so you can join higher level than yours?
How do you think I levelled from 20 to 49? I “buddyed” with people having a bigger fractal number to play only even-numbered fractals. This way I could get a reward at the maw and not do a fractal for no reward.
What you describe is using exactly the same technique to level up avoiding Maw.
Everybody used that trick to level up. After 50, it became interesting to level up by doing odd-numbered fractals rather than even-numbered ones.
It’s NOT a trick or if it is, well, everyone past level 20 used it and I mean everyone!
Whether or not every one used it has nothing to with whether it was a trick, it was useful and solved many problems, However it, combined with odd fractals not having a boss, allowed people to skip the agony check part of the game.
Point really is, they actually did make it impossible to beat fractals, people just skipped these fractals. You cant really claim they didnt try to stop people from passing 50, they just didnt do it effectively enough.
This time its going to be effective though. If they had reset everyone before, it wouldnt be an issue now. Then people wouldnt have got whatever thrill they had from high level fractals. For those that did them, would that actually have been better for you? never to have seen a 75 fractal and tested your metal? Was it a mistake to let people continue even though it was unintended because it wasnt hurting anyone?
They have also changed how “hard” is determined.
Right now, “hard” simply means “more agony”. It isn’t really harder, it just forces you to grind more and memorize the content.They have indicated that they are revamping the challenge starting at level 30 so that the difficulty comes from both agony and some new metric.
I don’t really care about scenery or how game feels like. I care about the difficulty. No matter how you define new “hard” it is either easier, harder or equal than current “hard” (current scale 80). I have grinded easier difficulty (current scale 1-79) to reach harder difficulty. If I after patch have to replay easier difficulty to reach back my previous difficulty (if even available) of course I will be annoyed.
problem is the game mode you got kitten no longer exists. Adding gambits, or something similar adds a variable that makes it actually impossible to compare difficulty.
Understand, difficulty is not absolute, it is relative. The old systems difficulty you can compare directly.
more hp, more dmg, it means you have to play with less errors for longer. we know where you fit in that scale.
But this is a new fight.
You soloed lupicus some time ago, it demanded you make few mistakes and deal with his mechanics.
If they release a new boss, Lupicus Brother, who now summons 4 abominations, while you fight him on a ledge, and has a 50% chance to use a new phase 2 pattern, and 50% chance to do a different phase 3 pattern, Should you automatically get credit for beating him?
Even if he turns out not to be as hard as giganticus, he is actually a different fight you havent beat.
It sucks they killed your fractals, im not opposed to you getting title that represents what you used to have, Dont care if they want to give you some items, or whatever.
But stop acting like your past achievements mean you shouldnt have to face new challenges. If they choose to let you skip to the end, i wont care, but it would just be out of pity, not because you earned anything as far as this new content is concerned
You just contradicted yourself and reinforced what everyone is saying.
There WAS compensation. Regardless of if it suited everyone or not is irrelevant.
There is no compensation here whatsoever, not even an offering.
Magic find was changed for the better, removed a wasted stat from the game and everyone still had gear out of it, salvaged or kept.This is about a game where content was made available to players, time and money both virtual and real was put in to this content as players pushed the limits.
If Anet did not want people progressing past 50, they should have put a cap @ 50. Not made it more challenging to get past it (isn’t that the idea?).
Now that Anet have changed their minds, as they do so frequently you never know where this game is headed, they’ve made all that time and resource a complete waste, and THAT is not ok.
A simple and expected progression could have just been to bring in ascended armour with more infusion slots for AR, introduce their gambits and new rewards.
Done.
There is no need for leader boards, changing level numbers or making items easier to acquire for those who just want the cool stuff but don’t want to do the work.
Fractals was supposed to be high end PvE, and once again they’re doing more harm than good (In my opinion) with half of this update.
If this isn’t resolved, when they revamp pvp I expect everyone’s rank be brought down too.
But hey, that would be unfair, right?
they actually made it impossible to get past 50, without buddying up with someone who already beat it before the fixes.
Essentially they made a change, but they werent sure they wanted to wipe the people who were at 80. The new system which was meant to make fractals more friendly and be able to have teams form more easily, was then used to work people up past the unpassable fractals. Many of the level 79 people have never beat many of the even number fractals.
So yeah, they basically worked around a hard limitation, that only works because it was for the best of the majority that they be able to play with whoever wanted to do a fractal as long as they were willing.
also, it is arguable whether they have made anything easier. They have removed the mechanical difficulty, and replaced it with a less mechanical difficulty.
The current high level Fractals difficulty is based around requiring you to play with less errors, for a longer time period.
This is like, say in basketball, judging your success by how many shots you can hit in a row. It is testing your skill, but in a very specific and limited fashion
the new fractals is trying to move more to the difficulty of, how many shots can you score in 20 minutes while this guy is defending you.
While mechanically the second is easier, because some people who only can hit 50% of their shots can win, it is actually in some ways more difficult, because you have a defender, you have to move around, etc. The second may be more forgiving, but its actually a whole different type of difficulty.
Point is they are trying to move to a form of difficulty that has more meaning than just playing perfectly, and is more interesting to many people. I believe they can add some more of the perfect play type stuff, but they should do it differently.
As far as the pvp rank reset, pretty sure they are considering that, and i hear many people actually want them to do it, because they feel the old pvp rank represented the wrong things, and at some points were achieved in ways were not intended by developers.
The honest truth is the change makes perfect sense, and if the new instabilities represent a new and different type of difficulty, it would make sense to set peoples level to the new game mode. However, i do believe they could have been more creative with their solutions, and they probably should have created a bring people up easily system rather than a put people down easily system, although the result is the same, the perception is a bit different. It would also have been odd, and a bit unwieldly, but sometimes you have to use less than elegant solutions to real situations.`
Main issue in few words:
What we are losing updated:
I trasmutated my ascended weapons in fractal skins being rare.
Now if they become easy to obtain i’d like to have at least ascended skin…To get those i need 3500 gems for splitters OR 10 new ascended..
After that i lose 60 fractal skins….and 1 year of awful drops….I wonder what would you say if you lost as much…..i doubt you would say “hey other player are getting easy stuff! i m happy….”
the dev says he didnt change fractal skin drop rate, most of you guys dont seem to believe him though
(edited by phys.7689)
All I’m reading here is sour grapes.
Please give it up already. Kiel won, end of story.
Everyone benefited from her election promises, not just the people that voted for her.Asking for a recall?
What possible “legal” grounds could you justify it? (keeping in mind the nature of LA’s cut-throat politics).Sour grapes in a cup of bitter tears.
We shall see whether people benefited when the Fractal comes out. The fractal was always the main point of contention, after all (as someone said, a single 10 minute CoF run would pay the entire WP bill for the period, after all).
If the Fractal releases, and the reactor was overloaded by Scarlet or something, then everybody will most definitely not have benefited.
Don’t be ignorrant. This is also true for the Evon fractal. You do realise the same team would have worked on it?
The fractal can also be this way: Scarlet would have created alliance with Abbadon and fail, thus resulting in Abbadon’s death.i think that wouldnt make much sense. Why would a god ally with a turnip. Abbadon is the god of all that is known and unknown, scarlet cant play him, or offer him knowledge, he is the god of knowledge.
On the otherhand, thaumonova and scarlett make perfect sense, she is known to be affiliated with them, and probably in the same time range.
I hope they do more with abbadon, and get into him not just as the one dimensional villain, but as the god who sought to give man knowledge/power. He clashes with his brethren because he essentially believed in man more than they did.
Except, mankind were begging for it to be taken away as it was causing them nothing but trouble.
yeah, the king petitioned them, how did everyone else feel? who knows. But knowledge is pretty dangerous, maybe he believed in them too much. Still i think its an interesting story. Of course its possible that if they did do abbadon story they could make it as black and white, and campy as scarlett is, so maybe its for the best they dont. Its also possible it could have been awesome though
All I’m reading here is sour grapes.
Please give it up already. Kiel won, end of story.
Everyone benefited from her election promises, not just the people that voted for her.Asking for a recall?
What possible “legal” grounds could you justify it? (keeping in mind the nature of LA’s cut-throat politics).Sour grapes in a cup of bitter tears.
We shall see whether people benefited when the Fractal comes out. The fractal was always the main point of contention, after all (as someone said, a single 10 minute CoF run would pay the entire WP bill for the period, after all).
If the Fractal releases, and the reactor was overloaded by Scarlet or something, then everybody will most definitely not have benefited.
Don’t be ignorrant. This is also true for the Evon fractal. You do realise the same team would have worked on it?
The fractal can also be this way: Scarlet would have created alliance with Abbadon and fail, thus resulting in Abbadon’s death.
i think that wouldnt make much sense. Why would a god ally with a turnip. Abbadon is the god of all that is known and unknown, scarlet cant play him, or offer him knowledge, he is the god of knowledge.
On the otherhand, thaumonova and scarlett make perfect sense, she is known to be affiliated with them, and probably in the same time range.
I hope they do more with abbadon, and get into him not just as the one dimensional villain, but as the god who sought to give man knowledge/power. He clashes with his brethren because he essentially believed in man more than they did.
In the vein of my previous post I am going to mainly speak in terms of people losing 30-50 here.
My own personal problem with all of this is that I put in months of work (it is a minimum of about 40 hours to do 20 levels…but the average is probably many more hours than that when we hit bugs on the third fractal or Maw where it couldn’t be completed…PUG’s, etc.). After all of these hours of work over months of time I am being placed at the exact same level as those people that chose not to put in the work or time or effort.
People writing that we are showing Elitism or QQ’ing need to learn to have a little bit of compassion towards their fellow human. Boards are anonymous, we know…but there are human beings behind the keyboard. You cannot say that we did not lose anything…even if you believe that 50+ somehow shouldn’t have been done. Those people who are losing 20 levels are losing something that they put a minimum of 40 hours into. Compensation cannot bring that time back…and the ANET team suddenly calling these people equal to someone at level 30 is an insult.
You can get to 29 with just a set of infused rings (or non-infused rings with two versatile infusions costing 75 fractal relics each = easy requirements)….there is no commitment made. That is why the majority of players stopped there. After 29, you need to infuse your rings (or find them), or make an ascended backpiece and infuse it. After 39, you need to have infused rings, and an infused backpiece…and even then, you have to dodge Agony, and time a guard healing tomb (or several other methods) on the final Maw fractal to survive. These are all facts as to why there were less and less players at those levels above 29.
A player who was doing level 48 fractals made a commitment to do level 48 fractals. They did this in time (minimum 40 hours extra work over a 28 person) they did this in equipment (infusing rings and back piece, which cost materials and etc). You cannot suddenly claim that these people should now be equal to the guy who didn’t put in the time or commitment. Have some compassion guys(and gals)….geez, you should be able to see that this is a loss to these people…they are being told that they are not any better than the people who didn’t put in the work. And they are being told that they need to put in the work again. And I am not even talking about the 50+ crowd.
Think of it this way…at 1.5 hours a fractal set, someone at level 30 put in about 50 hours to get there…whether they did it all at once or over months does not matter…they put in the time. Someone at 50 put in almost double that time (I would argue that higher levels take longer since you cannot just rush through them, you need more strategy). This new patch calls these two groups equal. I would actually be happier if everyone lost something (like everyone lose 20 levels)…misery loves company…at least we would all be in it together.
the whole talk of infusion is irrelevant, you still have every advantage you gained with infusion, and if agony is the main deterrent, you will race to the top while newbs have to go back and get agony resist
Maybe a better compromise would have been to work the averages. Make everyone lose something, but still keep a difference between players:
If the majority of players are at the 28 level mark:
Those 10 and below, drop to 0 and start over.
Those 10-19 drop to 10.
those 10-29 drop to 20
those 30-39 drop to 30
those 40-80 drop to 40 (50+ still take the biggest hit but at least they are still shown to have something for their time and effort, or maybe put the 50+ crowd at 45 to start to differentiate those from the – 49 crowd)
This would still put the majority of players at or slightly below 30. It would still keep the other players at about their levels from the level cap with minimal work required to get back to the new level cap (but still requiring some work on their behalf).
this makes it sound like your real beef is that you have to be at the same level as plebians. you dont mind a level loss as long as you are above others. Ok
actually i would say it shouldnt be on highest scale beaten, they said each level has a unique mechanic. Could be that the mechanic at 44 is harder to deal with than the one at 50 for a lot of people. Also overcoming 1 type of challenge doesnt mean you can overcome different challenges.
—If 48 is drastically different than 49 then put my maximum access to first unique scale (probably 40 or 45). But I guess in that case changing reset level to that 40 or 45 would fit better.
However system like that sounds quite bad because higher scales can be easier than previous ones. But we will see the actual implementation soon.
if its some unique mechanic for each level, its pretty hard for them to say which one is harder. In GW1 different people had different problems dealing with the hard mode limits in Domain of Anguish.
For example a constant DOT is going to effect lower hp players more than higher hp players, or native hot players.
Less endurance would effect thieves more than say guardians.Its pretty unlikely that the new difficulties are going to exactly be strictly speaking harder than each other, if they each have a unique mechanic.
The overall point is that if our hardcore players can beat fotm level 50 day one, then it’s a horrible design.
If they struggle and have to work up to it, then they will have to do that anyway.
Resetting levels arbitrarily is not the answer.
people wont go back, there is no advantage to going back, or gearing that occurs there, they will just figure out how to beat level 50. And it really isnt bad design to have different challenges even if you have to number them. A fighting game may have like 10 hard combos, if you go to training mode they have to put them in some order, its actually better IMO if they have 10 different challenges that are all fairly difficult, rather than just getting harder. More entertaining to beat.
I am trying to look at this from the developers perspective I think I understand why they set it at 30. You will get the majority of your fractals players at 30 and it is a level that is not quite so daunting for the new players. Even with the old fractals, it was a minority that went beyond 28, because that meant that you had to start really looking at your infusion slots (you wouldn’t be able to have those magicfind infusions, etc and would have to make infused rings / backpiece). So the majority of players that have done fractas probably were around the 10-28 level. They wanted to bring in new players and by putting the new content at 30 they had the most “bang for their buck” with the most people able to get to and enjoy the new content.
I believe that the down-leveling of the 30+ crowd is a compromise already made by the developers. Think about it, they were re-doing fractals in a different way, with a different form of AR advancement. They implemented a leaderboard. They would want everyone on equal footing and probably originally planned on starting everyone over at level 1. In a meeting, at least one of the dev’s pointed out that wiping out everyones levels in fractals would create a complete firestorm within the playerbase. They looked at the numbers and saw that if they let people at 30 and below keep their levels, most of the playerbase wouldn’t lose anything. They made a compromise to keep the majority of their playerbase from exploding all over the forums.
Its too late to make a major change, there are two development days until the patch. This LS update has been worked on for 4 months…its too late. As of Tuesday, odds are, we will be level 30 and lost literally months of work (some of us can only do 1 fractal run a week, because not everyone has 3 hours to do a single thing in an evening). They may be able to put something quick in as far as compensation (query everyone that leveled above 30 and give them some extra +1 AR infusions or some champ boxes)…but odds are the major changes are already coded, already done. Even if they now realize their mistake, it is too late to do anything but a quick fix.
Maybe we need to look at it more from this perspective. Again, without verification from the dev team this is all subjecture, but this is what I think anyways.
they can however decide what data to save and use later for whatever they decide to do about it, and they can let people know that it will be back later.
Much like SAB progress isnt lost, or when they sent out the karka event items to those who missed it.
or they can say next month we will have sme old titles, or backpacks or whatever
actually i would say it shouldnt be on highest scale beaten, they said each level has a unique mechanic. Could be that the mechanic at 44 is harder to deal with than the one at 50 for a lot of people. Also overcoming 1 type of challenge doesnt mean you can overcome different challenges.
—If 48 is drastically different than 49 then put my maximum access to first unique scale (probably 40 or 45). But I guess in that case changing reset level to that 40 or 45 would fit better.
However system like that sounds quite bad because higher scales can be easier than previous ones. But we will see the actual implementation soon.
if its some unique mechanic for each level, its pretty hard for them to say which one is harder. In GW1 different people had different problems dealing with the hard mode limits in Domain of Anguish.
For example a constant DOT is going to effect lower hp players more than higher hp players, or native hot players.
Less endurance would effect thieves more than say guardians.
Its pretty unlikely that the new difficulties are going to exactly be strictly speaking harder than each other, if they each have a unique mechanic.
As I have said before, they could make leaderboard based on highest scale beaten (after patch). So high scale people can try 50 and see if they can make it. If they do then new content is already a joke and the new leaderboard will be a joke. If not, then they have to go practice/get gear from previous scales.
actually i would say it shouldnt be on highest scale beaten, they said each level has a unique mechanic. Could be that the mechanic at 44 is harder to deal with than the one at 50 for a lot of people. Also overcoming 1 type of challenge doesnt mean you can overcome different challenges.
I would say the leader board should track which/the number of unique fractals you have beaten (this way beating 50 20 times doesnt put you at the top). Possibly your deaths/team wipes, time or level completion. Then people could really compete, for best times, best runs, etc.
That would give people some real things to compete at
However even with all that i dont think that alone justifies wiping people. The only logical reason to not give people their old progress is if the new fractal mechanics actually make beating them a different achievement than it was before, IE its actually representing something different. (doesnt have to be harder, just different)
To ease the loss of the old fractals, they should give high end players some mementos or titles for bragging rights.
leaderboards arent worth reseting levels for, i agree. The only type of leader boards that would really make sense for fractals would be ones that track things like completion rating (killing specific enemies or completing objectives) and time of completion, or perhaps tracking deaths or wipes.
Tracking level is kind of pointless, and will have like 100s of people in a couple weeks, and 1000s in a few months. Unless the new fractals are actually a lot harder than the old ones
Honestly, 20 levels can be gained back in under a week. Now those 250 ecto I spent getting the +5 on my backpack, those will take quite a bit more time to re-coup.
You haven’t lost anything…in fact unless they’re changing the way we infuse items and haven’t said as much yet you’re getting +5 AR that someone who infuses after the patch will not get.
Existing Infused Ascended Rings and Back Items lose their natural +5 Agony Resist, and receive a +5 Agony Resist Infusion by default.
New Infused Ascended Rings and Back Items will have an empty slot.https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/fractured/Agony-changes/first#post3228298
You’re right that they won’t get the +5 AR automatically, but they will be able to add an inscription to get that extra +5 AR, and you can’t possibly tell me that the new +5 AR inscription is effectively the same as 250 ectos. Not when +1’s that can be combined ‘drop frequently’.
the new thing is confusing without seeing it, but he is right.
to make it clear only the 250 ecto backpiece (the only backpieces marked as (infused)) you already have will even have a slot for the new AR infusions. you cant put the new AR infusions into regular infusion slots. To top it off you will be getting a +5 infusion slot built in, after the update, when they spend the 250 ectos, it will be an empty slot.
so yes you soundly ahead of the game and have an even better value for your ecto than you will have after the update
You guys went to school? You invested your time to get certain degree? New curriculum introduced and they told you your degree no longer valid?
That’s the type of equity wiped make people upset. Real life & in game.
If you don’t understand this principle, I don’t have anything more to say.That sort of stuff happens in real life too. You either learn the new content to refresh your degree/certification or you find a new line of work. So here you either learn the new mechanics they’re adding in at level 30 or you find another game/part of gw2 to play.
No it doesn’t. I have my bachelor’s degree in chemical engineering. That will never be taken away from me.
True true… My bachelor’s in Music Education, Master’s in Music and Master’s in Information Science will never be taken away either. My (bad) analogy was more in lines with teachers (and other professions) who have to complete continuing education credits in order to maintain their certification so they can stay in their chosen profession.
Ok to clarify this analogy no one can ever take away any one of your degrees. However it can become no longer relevant. It happens all the time, and its part of real life. I think the orginal poster’s point was it shouldnt happen in an MMO.
However i disagree, a good mmo has to have at least some ability to move forward and add new things, even if it invalidates some previous things. Its actually really common in MMOs, the main difference is usually they would just make it really easy to get past old roadblocks, where as here they reset it. the effect is the same.
Advanced fractal runners should actually be 48+, because they actually had to dodge agony whereas y’all had plenty of AR to tank (lol). So really, it dumbs down all of the advanced fractal runners to be on equal footing with the casual fractal runners, which, yes, will be ahead of those players who barely set foot in fractals. So they’re clumping the top players in with the casual/semihardcore players. That’s not… Well.. It’s not quite right.
Not to mention that after the update, there will be no difference from players lvl 30, 40, 50, up to 80. Even though those at 80 put in incredibly more work than those at 30.
so your main issue is you want to stand apart? then a title would be good?
No. I don’t want my progress erased.
so you want fractals to remain as they are essentially?
Advanced fractal runners should actually be 48+, because they actually had to dodge agony whereas y’all had plenty of AR to tank (lol). So really, it dumbs down all of the advanced fractal runners to be on equal footing with the casual fractal runners, which, yes, will be ahead of those players who barely set foot in fractals. So they’re clumping the top players in with the casual/semihardcore players. That’s not… Well.. It’s not quite right.
Not to mention that after the update, there will be no difference from players lvl 30, 40, 50, up to 80. Even though those at 80 put in incredibly more work than those at 30.
so your main issue is you want to stand apart? then a title would be good?
Advanced fractal runners should actually be 48+, because they actually had to dodge agony whereas y’all had plenty of AR to tank (lol). So really, it dumbs down all of the advanced fractal runners to be on equal footing with the casual fractal runners, which, yes, will be ahead of those players who barely set foot in fractals. So they’re clumping the top players in with the casual/semihardcore players. That’s not… Well.. It’s not quite right.
to be honest dodging agony/dealing with it is one of the easiest parts of advanced fractals. The actual levels and enemies are a much bigger challenge.
And its currently unknown how advanced fractal runners of the old type will fare in the new system. Some are great players, some have encounters memorized and positions figured out. If say instability makes monsters pull you to them, many classic strategies would fail. If instability makes all attacks single target many old strategies will fail. We really dont know who the new elite of the instabilities will be.
Once again Jmar, let me make it clear
the reason why its best for the new content to start at 30 was because from 30-50 the actual change in gameplay was minimal. The main reason many people never went passed 30 was because it was pretty similar to what they did before, only with more dmg from enemies, and more defense/hp
the solution is to make 30-50 actually play differently.
I am now excited to try out 30-50 knowing every level will add some new unique challenge.
This makes fractals more interesting over all.
As for your levels. If they think they should give a free pass to the new levels, even though you havent beaten them, i dont really mind. But its actually something very different than what you did before.
I acknowledge they are essentially destroying the fractals you enjoyed, and putting new ones in its place. You are losing your progress on that line because that line doesnt exist.
What would be a fair boon for losing access to the old fractals?
Would you be happy if they reintroduce classic fractals later and you retained your level?
Is a unique title good enough?
Is being able to skip to the end of the new fractals what you really want?
Don’t use the Tower content as a bench mark. It’s designed to be solo content. I soloed all 3 levels with a warrior. I find the guard builds are better when in a group. Not everyone plays them that way but the benefits of having a guard far out weigh using other classes when in a full party. I don’t think they are useless.
Uhhh warrior is extremely strong in pve
People on lvl 30 scale aren’t as skilled as people at lvl 40-50. It’s gonna be a kitten storm of bad pugs which is mainly why I’m annoyed by this update. I feel for the people who lost a lot more progress than me (I have 1 lvl 48, 4 lvl 38s).
bad pugs isnt a legitimate concern though, you can party up with whoever you want
Yeah, bad pugs.
heres what you should do, make a elite fractals guild. make a level 1 checker char who groups up with each member to assure they have access to X level.
this way every one in your guild is elite, and you dont have to play with bad pugs ever.
you can’t do this anymore after update and before update most ppl try to reduce dmg done in Forums instead of playing the game:)
make 1 friend who doesnt do high level fractals to check it for you.
For all we know, Anet is doing one of the following three:
1. Working on some kind of compensation.
2. Working on some way of explaining why what’s being done is being done.
3. Waiting for the whole thing to blow over because of minority involvement on the issue at hand, while keeping majority happy.
4. And extremely unlikely: working on changes to the “proposed” system as we speak.As to the following:
And personally, for all those saying “we just want our difficulty back” for the 50+: you don’t know what the Instabilities have to offer. That may be your difficulty/challenge, and then a bag of chips.
I personally never been one to promote going past level 50 since it was obviously not intended. But that being said one of the devs responses was clearly that the curve up to level 50 is way easier than it was before. With that in mind, the challenge that was there to begin with is being taken away and “chips” are nowhere in sight.
for all we know, its nothing
they have said nothing, so they should probably expect that till they do, various parties will discuss every angle and aspect of the change.
People on lvl 30 scale aren’t as skilled as people at lvl 40-50. It’s gonna be a kitten storm of bad pugs which is mainly why I’m annoyed by this update. I feel for the people who lost a lot more progress than me (I have 1 lvl 48, 4 lvl 38s).
bad pugs isnt a legitimate concern though, you can party up with whoever you want
Yeah, bad pugs.
heres what you should do, make a elite fractals guild. make a level 1 checker char who groups up with each member to assure they have access to X level.
this way every one in your guild is elite, and you dont have to play with bad pugs ever.
People on lvl 30 scale aren’t as skilled as people at lvl 40-50. It’s gonna be a kitten storm of bad pugs which is mainly why I’m annoyed by this update. I feel for the people who lost a lot more progress than me (I have 1 lvl 48, 4 lvl 38s).
bad pugs isnt a legitimate concern though, you can party up with whoever you want, if you dont want random public players… dont randomly play with public players?
If you think people made it to 80 by not using exploits(things that where removed or changed latter) at all when fotm first came out you make me laugh. Fact they made it so you have to face a boss with global agony at end with update probly means you cant advance without the AR now.
that’s the diffrence I don’t think I KNOW: A Group that made it to 70 at least with using no rez orbs or 99% rez or other things they did it with an extra gear with full on Healpower a necro that survived with deathshrowed while Guardians healed up with book and ele used aoe rez and heal as well. So were able to survive global agony I know it if you laugh you laugh because you haven’t played it back than. You could avoid the global agony legit… I didn’t do it I know a Group that did it. if you want proofe go search the old threads that were made back than. The agony siginificantly changed with the january realese. But I and those ppl did it Prior.
they did alter all those methods like deathshroud, search and rescue, etc from what i vaguely remember though. So even if it was legit at the time, they stopped people from doing it.
It’s quite funny how the post was closed just after we asked for someone from Anet to respond, to at least know they’re still reading. Now we know they’re reading. But listening ? That’s another thing…
To be fair to ANet, that last thread was getting pretty toxic and none of us had any condition removal equipped. Can you blame them for not wanting to get in the middle of that? They’re in a “kitten ed if you do, kitten ed if you don’t” thing here.
the proper way to deal with a toxic discussion is to moderate, and direct it.
They could say, ok guys, we re concerned about this, Heres what we are looking at.
We are open to some feedback, but here is what is not possible, or off the table.
This is why we did X in fractals before.
Regardless of what side you are on, its a real issue. With real concerns. And real implications with the direction future updates take. Its not something to which the best solution is to simply move to another forum.
I feel like they should be heard, and answered.
Not to use a catch phrase, but this is what the CDI kind of should be looking into, not just in those particular threads, but in general hot topics, and feedback from big changes they plan to make, and what it means.
lol, doesnt matter they dont want to hear it. Even though i am not necessarilly on the same page as some of you guys, im saddened that it doesnt seem like they are really considering the issue, or the feedback.
They should probably give people over 30 a title representive of thier old scale, or let them return to old fractals in a later update, since we know nothing is going to change for this new update.
They should communicate their intent, and what type of solutions, or lack thereof they are actually considering, then people may not discuss it.